IMPOSSIBLE Time Signature or 4/4? Tigran Hamasyan Explained
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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This is a look into the main rhythmic theme, but the whole tune is filled with this stuff! Check it out- ruclips.net/video/wOceGbJae8c/видео.html
Charles Cornell hola
piano father
please pick me up im scared
I didnt know that you used logic I do too Cool Man
At first I thought this was 4 over 4 but in fast time. 😅
Very nice video. A lot of times, there aren't well explained music videos that dive into higher concepts, but you did this very well!
Sounds kinda like the Gamecube start up, but the cube is very confused. 10/10
I require an edit of this now.
4/4*
No, its in 4/4 >:(
10/10 is just 4/4 but you really like quintuplets
Project Overturn aka RareBeeph
No that’s 20/20
10/10 is *2/2* but you like quintuplets
"I'm not that good at drums"
*proceeds to drum very well*
Ariën Boonstra
In relation to his piano skills maybe
(I mean the quote of "Im not that good at drums)
Lol I appreciate that! I am definitely nowhere near the level of the drummers I play with on gigs and such, but I love playing them anyways.
And also like slightly bad? But in the best most endearing way possible? Maybe it’s just me noticing some of the specific technique sound
@@hermionieismyqueen2097 yeah I'm a guitar player, so I'm not that into drumming. I fool around with them sometimes but I trust your assesment entirely😂
I was like "Bruh, I can't even play the triangle"
I love Tigran. His abilities consistently confound me.
Absolutely! He is incredible
One of my all time favorite musicians. Genius of complex rhythm, technical virtuosity, married with beautiful, inventive armenian melody. Without ever feeling pretentious or try-hard. I'm not surprised Charles is a fan :)
666 likes!!!!
I think this basically just shows something my theory teavher told us. Sheet music is just a way to try and write down what the composer has in their head. It really means nothing as long as you perform what the composer meant.
Teavher yay
@@tatertatertatertatertater How original, pointing out a typo. Piss off.
@@matthewcooper4248 just take the piss. you might as well fix it if you have the time to reply
I actually rather sheet music, than just hearing it and figuring out by ear. It's like writing notes in class in a way. That way there's some form of an understanding of where the composer was coming from with the concept of his/her piece from musician to musician.
FYI: "Vardavar" is a national festival which consists of people spraying water on each other (in the middle of summer in Armenia, temperatures in the captial city Yerevan can go up to 42 °C). Hence the frantic rhythm
Thank you.😊
I was about to comment about Vardavar and then I saw your comment!
Shed I also commented about Vardavar, but credits are yours , you were first 😂😂
So essentially Holi?
Cool insight, but I do quite dislike the "hence the frantic rhythm" thing. Naah, it's there cause it gives pleasure, "frantic" etc are just cultural pre(/mis)conceptions.
My mind involuntarily went “BASS” at the end of the video. Wrong channel
Davie504 is ruining us
Pariza Meer I actually meant Adam Neely
Daniel Diaz whoops wrong RUclipsr
Crying lmao
Epic
Figuring out a time signature of crazy jazz music is easy: it's all in 1/4 time. Done.
What about 3/16
OG Nova just make everything tuplets
Dustin Clark It’s easier that way
@@joshlyphout4983 John 3:16? Gsus, I mean, Jesus approved!
Haha I think Allan Holdsworth made a joke about “I just count everything in 1” at some point
Tigran is genious! I had the chance to meet him at an event I organised with my friends. I sang the same evening an armenian religious melody and he played an improvisation on the same music. He is just amazing! Proud Armenian! :)
Nice! This is my favourite Tigran tune, especially the version of him playing it on a mountain with a toy piano. So cool
Jajaja yess!!
yes! it's also atypically happy for a tune by him
@@zacalves this song was one of those that made me feel as though my brain was rewired for the better after hearing it for the first time. Beautiful song.
I’ve just started getting into Tigran’s music in the last few months. “Fides Tua” is stunning on every level and blows me away as a pianist and a fledgling composer. You did a great job of explaining his use of complex rhythms - love this kind of content from you!
same, I'm enjoying the mockroot album.
Look at tigrans song the court jester. The melody can feel a bit strange but it’s amazing from a rythmic perspective
I'm guilty of listening to Tigrans music on spotify so I don't learn the songs names or what album they are from, but I looked The Court Jester up specifically upon your suggestion and that's an awesome song, now one of my favorites for sure. Man thank you for bringing it to my attention, I love that kind of odd melody and angular feel.
"Slow it down, and add a metronome"
*Dramatic surprised hamster turning around music*
Ha loser
Time stamp?
I saw this comment as I came across this part in the video. Exact timing.
You’re the musician version of Berd.
You shit post so much we forget you’re actually so talented and are capable of so much.
This video also confirmed that I’m so glad I went the classical route in college.
I think there's a couple missing elements to this discussion, the big one being compositional intent or whatever you want to call it. Since in the song the drummer never simplifies it down to a 4/4 groove, from a notational/engraving standpoint we'd almost definitely rely on the agogic stresses that both Tigran and the drummer are using, and as a result the more additive meters would be used. The fact that the number of sixteenth notes in the riff happens to coincidentally be a multiple of 16 and therefore line up with 4/4 is a neat coincidence for a party trick but not particularly helpful.
BUT, contrast that with Entertain Me, where Tigran is playing a similar additive riff (5+5+5+5+3+3+3+3+3) that cycles around the beat while the drummer DOES play a constant 4/4 backbeat, then that makes more sense to write out in 4/4, as it shows where the superimposed drum feel is placed while you could add accents or tenutos or whatever to show where the agogic stresses are that Tigran plays.
I agree. I think in this particular piece, the harmonic rhythm is also offset enough that moving away from 4/4 seems to do the piece the most justice. I think of it in groups of twos and threes, and Tigran loves to use fives, so embracing that in our selection of time signatures makes a lot of sense.
Also, the use of 4/4 drums under complex rhythms or vice versa is fairly common. Look in bands like Rush, Chon, Thank You Scientist... uh, prog bands, I guess, and you'll see stuff like this a lot.
Panzerballett is my suggestion if you want to laugh at super complex music
I agree, and it's important to note that where the accent falls is essentially what defines a time signature anyway. If you play in "4/4" and accent beats 1 then 4 then 3 then 2 then back to 1 it's not 4/4, it's 3/4, and I think it's the same concept here.
Damn educational thank you dude
Absolutely! This is a typical rhythm/metrum/time signature case. You can call a 12/8 a 4/4 with triplets, even a whole phrase can be simplified to a unit of measure, but rhythmically it's what the composer intended it to be.
S'lotta words for four sentences. You'd give V. Hugo a run on for his money 😉.
Just busting balls. Great point, and respect to your cadence.✌
Entertain me is my favorite jam by Tigran, such a beast!
And The Grid!
@@747lch Hell yeah, dude! Basically anything from Mockroot
Add Drip, Court Jester, Double-Faced, Road Song and Out of the Grid to the list. Fucking bangers!
Saw Tigran play live one time, absolutely transcendent
Twelve seconds in and I’m scared for Jimmy
Happy Birthday, Level 8 👆
(Level 6 added instruments.
Level 7 got jazzy, obviously. 😁)
Vardavar is one of my favorite "modern jazz" songs! Tigran is incredible!
One time, my friend and I (both of us consider{ed} ourselves well versed with rhythm) spent one hour trying to figure out a section of ‘The Court Jester’, only to realise it was 4/4 (12/8) the whole time. That’s when we realised there’s always still a lot left to learn. But Tigran truly is a genius. The melodies he manages placing over such complex subdivisions are beautiful melodic phrases and almost never done just for the sake of doing it.
he talks so smooth and sounds so smart and plays so amazingly
he looks so buff to, damn i think i have a crush
6:15 there's a video of some buff guy playing giant steps in 13/8 on youtube, highly recommend
Panzerballet's version of Giant Steps is my favorite
ahh yes good ol' John Swoltrane’s Giant Reps
(yes i stole this comment from the video but whatever it's funny)
"I don't think about the 4/4. I just kind of play it."
*Welcome to drumming*
😅👍
Yup. That's how you play Dream Theater for sure lmao
I stopped trying to count and soon I could just feel the rhythm despite the chaos.
After a couple of plays without trying to count you start to get a sense of the timing without even thinking about it.
This is a great piece and I'm definitely going to search more from Tigran 👍
Tigran has recently become one of my favourites. There is some kind of magic in his playing.
For anyone looking to scratch that Tigran itch check out Avishai Cohen, former bassist for Chick Corea's New Trio. His solo work has a similarly beautiful complexity without feeling overdone or pretentious and he always has amazing musicians on his records
also dude your drumming is way better than I anticipated, quite the multi-instrumentalist flex! Hell yeah!
in particular, his trio album Gently Disturbed with Mark Guiliana and Shai Maestro. some unforgettable pieces
His last record is as good as Gently Disturbed!
His first album is still my favorite, what, 20+ years later. I remember where I was when my old boss put it in the car CD player. Those little runs he does blew me away.
I really like this format, it's almost like an Adam Neely video, but simpler and really soothing. I'm eager to watch another video of this format.
luke skywalker: "do you know obi-wan kenobi?"
old ben: 1:29
(Wheeze)
Tigran Hamasyan is an absolute genius! Thanks for covering this Charles
“I’m not very good at drums” *proceeds to drum well and bad at the same time in the most endearing way*
My favorite thing about Tigran Hamasyan is his genius melodic sense. This song has no right to be as catchy and memorable as it is. The woodwind/voice melody that comes in after this section is so nice. Also, you’re a freak for being able to play this.
"This...hits different..."
I've listened to Vardavar on repeat for over an hour before and cried to it's beauty
Love this educational part of your channel. Also love the memes. my favourite Tigran jam is Drip!
We're about to start 'take five' in the jazz band I'm in (a school thing). As a drummer who struggles with 7/8, I'm scared
You'll be fine. You got this dude
My drum teacher got me to try "Run" by Shihad (a.k.a. pacifier). The intro is 7/8, 6/8, 7/8, 6/8. The verses are 4/8, 6/8, 4/8, 6/8. Then the chorus is 6/8.
Its tricky at first but once you get a feel for it you'll be sweet
@@kingkea3451 thanks for the reassurance :)
good job take five is in five then
lol a pineapple 7/8 isn’t too complicated once you know how to count it. Rather than counting to 7, try counting to 4, but only count half of the number four.. like this: One, Two, Three, FoOne, Two, Three, FoOne and so on.
@@Zantor How you should count it depends on how it's subdivided, though. Well, "should" is probably the wrong word here... But if the 7/8 measure is subdivided 3 + 2 + 2, then I wouldn't try counting it "one two three fo", I would count it "one-and-a two three" (or "banana terracotta" if you are into System of a Down). If it's 2 + 2 + 3, I would count it "one two three-and-a". In other words, find the subdivision and count using it. Most of the time odd time signatures are subdivided into groups of 2 and 3.
When it comes to Take Five, it makes sense to divide the measure of 5 into two smaller measures - it basically alternates between 3/4 and 2/4. So, "one two three, one two". Not all of the beats are "equal" - the strong accents are on the first and the fourth beat. There's also an accent between the two and three, almost making it feel like it's actually in four, but you just have two longer beats (dotted quarter notes) and two shorter beats (regular quarter notes).
This was awesome! I love seeing stuff where the 4/4 is disguised, especially using polymeters and modulation. Would be cool to see you do some stuff on tuplet shuffles using fives and sevens!
So my dad is always listening to this pianist, so I started also listening to him, but I never thought you would make a video about him. Great job!
Charles, I don't understand these music terminologies but I still like your videos
Hey! Thank you very much for the mention.
And yes, yes it had to be done.
I love how you can make a completely stupid, hilarious, impressive comedy/music video and then turn around and make an educational, slightly mind blowing, video about music theory, while keeping me entertained whichever it is.
You know, I love this channel not just for the content but because Charles has no problem making fun of himself and staying real. So hard to find online nowadays.
"With music like this you should definitely stick with what you prefer"
Music teachers: NO, do it MY WAY
I mean, you should follow the group leader in general unless you're soloing.... My students also are very young and inexperienced, so they rarely try to interpret the music at all. They just play notes. If I get a rare student who tries to interpret music, I get excited and then offer constructive criticism and try to help them hear their interpretation and where it could be improved.
Teaching music to an inexperienced musician often requires you to contradict your own beliefs until they become an experienced musician. You have to spoon feed them all of their potential musical options so that once they become more experienced they have a huge palette to choose with which they prefer
Teachers don't usually speak about music like this.
Like most anything in the world, you gotta know the rules before you can break them.
I guess you also gotta know the rules of knowing the rules before you break them before you can break them.
What a wonderful teacher and lovely man!
Omg you know Tigran wow I'm in love
I've been studying this kind of rythmic music for a while, and I don't really agree that you need to choose between hearing it in 4/4 or feel it without understanding it.
So as I see no one talking about it, let me break this groove down for you :
As for any rythm on the drums, you need to understand it well enough if you want to play it and try to become freeer at some point, especially if you want to play jazz with it and change stuff in the moment (which is the fun part but also the achievement of your work...). In this case, the groove is separated by groups of notes that have a certain lenght, which are : 5 - 5 - 3 - 5 - 5 - 4 - 5, or more accurately : 5/16 - 5/16 - 3/16 - 5/16 - 5/16 - 4/16 - 5/16 ("16" just means that these numbers are values of 16th notes).
To me, that is the real time signature of this groove, because this is what you need to work with to master the groove.
Now if you're into odd time signatures, you know that for these types of groupings you're not going to count all the 16th notes, you need to count half of what you have, because it keeps your mind twice less busy, and then when you've done it for a while you don't even have to count.
So in our case, Vardavar would become : 2.5 - 2.5 - 1.5 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 2 - 2.5.
How does this help? Well,... from then, as the right hand phrases are based on 8th notes, you can start by playing the right hand. A 2.5 group will be played "1-2&-" (5 symbols that represent the 5/16) that you pronounce "one two and" ("-" is a space).
The 1.5 group would be played "1-&".
The 2 group would be played "1-2-".
Now you can piece the right hand sentence together : 1-2&- 1-2&- 1-& 1-2&- 1-2&- 1-2- 1-2&-
The cool thing is that once you have that, your kicks and snare drum sounds are always placed on a 1.
It's a clever way to think about those things.
Try it!
It could be useful, especially if you like these kind of concepts...
BRO DID YALL NOT NOTICE “THE LICK” AS THE THUMBNAIL ?!?!?!?!?? IT STRIKES AGAIN LMAOOOOO !!!
I really like these break down episodes! Educational, fun, and very interesting
Hey Charles! My mum is a piano teacher❤
That’s crazy bro....
But I don’t remember asking
Mason Chong dang bro thats hecka funny i laughed
@@masondchong
Umm I actually spoke to him.
And if it bothers you that I wrote that then just ignore it. And anyway, nobody cares about it. I just wrote it to Charles. I thought you knew that, because you were so "smart". And I'm sorry, I didn't know it bothered you that my mum has a better job than your mum.
@@masondchong that joke's so fucking hackneyed
@@ajfiaewoipaweipefawejpfwoe1049
You're really lame if you laugh at heartless people's jokes.
I know you're good because you explained this so simply! Great video
Charles: I know the hardest time signature
Daniel Thrasher pulls out sheet music with Pi: Are you sure about that
He does this a lot on the Mockroot album. I'm transcribing The Grid into a piece for guitar and it's just straight 4/4 the entire way, breaking across to bars with groups of 16th notes arranged in sets that go: 5, 5, 7, 5, 5, 5. In the follow up track, Out Of The Grid, he takes the basic framework of this and obliterates what the previous track did, doing every kind of multilayered permutation until it basically ends on like a basic djent riff. Insane.
6:18 The intro to Electric Sunrise by Plini. It’s actually in 13/8. Lol
YES EXACTLY i can't believe someone else also knows plini in this comment section lol this made me very happy
This channel is such a great mix of theory, performance and humour. Appreciate all the effort you put into videos like these.
0:17 it sounds a little bit like “Sequence Start” by Sungazer (Adam Neely’s band)
It's crazy how I heard of Tigran a few months ago, saw him live about one month ago, and now this. Really glad the world has shown him to me
Yo Charles, you should try learning pyramid song by radiohead, now that's what I call a weird time signature
It's 4/4 with swing
lol a pineapple it’s not weird it’s was just played with no consideration for us nerds and our sheet music
Ironically, that's also just 4/4
Although pyramid song is technically in 4/4 the feel of the meter is actually in the name! Its a repetition of a beat phrase (3+3+4+3+3). If yow thought of the numbers as the points of 2D shapes, you'd get (triangle+triangle+square+triangle+triangle). If you drew those shapes strung together and then cut them out of a peice of paper, you'd be able to create a 3D pyramid, like those weird geometry questions back in highschool. The rhythm is literally a pyramid!
Seeing Tigran live changed my life.
the way he described tigrans music reminded me of jacob collier
Indeed!
Jacob Collier has a different take on rhythm, he is much more free and tries to avoid quantization whereas tigran is quantization taken to the nexy level with insane time.signatures, though they usually fall into a '4/4 framework'. Vardavar is one example of this but there are many more, such ad entertain me, red hail, and double faced, though double faced is a different beast entirely. Nairian Odyssey is worth checking out as well, it's in 7/4 but with a 4/4 feel. 7 tuplets between each beat. It also has ridiculous syncapation and a 4:5 metric modulation with insanely complex beat warping. David Bruce has a video on it if you're interested.
sss dd nice i’ll check it out
Tigran is SO underrated and amazing. Thanks for shedding some light on him!
6:19 that's me in a nutshell =D
I'm glad this was recommended by the algorithm.
Loved the presentation, loved learning about someone's music I was unaware of.
this piece kind of reminds me of part of the Celeste soundtrack, hehe : )
More videos like this please! Tigran is one of the best.
I feel like Charles would like Math Rock and Mathcore, just based on his love of odd time signatures.
azalago Cat Fantastic grooves nobody tell me differently
Dance Gavin Dance anyone? 😂 he needs to check out Will Swan’s guitar
I fear that math rock and mathcore go a bit too far into complexity for complexity's sake, though it's really great study music lol
Animals as leaders
Just found out Tigran is performing in my city. Wouldn't have known his name without this video. Excited to get to hear him live!
"cleverly? cleverly. cleverly. cleverly? yeah, cleverly."
me: how about... *cleferly* 😏
i'll just leave now
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Clefairy
What a great time to find this channel! Love it
That was incredible!!
Also I'm pretty sure no one here , exept Armenians, knows what means Vardavar in Armenian 😂
Ինձ թվում ա որոշ մարդիկ կիմանան։ Տուրիստներ ամեն դեպքում շատ ենք ունեցել մինչկոռոնայական ժամանակաշրջանում։
P.S. Կոնս ես սովորում?
@@vahekhachaturian2424 Չէ 🙂 կարայի , բայց չէ 😂 որոշեցի մի քիչ ուրիշ գծով շարունակել։
@@aramd8314 Օօ.. Նույն խոսքերը ինչ ես եմ ասում)
Կոմպոզիցիայի բաժին եմ ընդունված եղել, բայց հիմա Android developer եմ։ Կարող ա պարզվի, որ էտ էլ ա համընկնում? 0_օ
@@vahekhachaturian2424 անդրոիդ չէ, բայց ես էլ եմ ծրագրավորող 😂 նախնականով ընտրել եմ դատա, հիմա սովորում եմ բայց դե մի քանի ծրագրավորման լեզու գիտեմ, Վեբ եմ բզբզացել ժամանակին, հիմա սպասում եմ համալսարանից ինչ կասեն... որ ըստ դրա , դիմել եմ Computer Science որ հետագայում հետաքրքրությունս կորի Software, Security, Web, AI ուր ուզեմ կարողանամ կես տարում վերակվալիֆիկացիա լինել
Avishai cohen - Pinzin kinzin is also in 4/4 but also with broken 16ths. Really cool when musicians fool your mind
Charles Cornell is going to be the piano version of Twoset.
Huge improvement in the flow of this video, I was engaged the whole time!
This gives me "music vsauce" vibes
As much as I love your tik toks and humorous videos, i'd love more videos like this! love watching you figure out challenging music and geek out about it-I haven't listened to tigran in years and you reminding me of him has gotten me excited about playing piano again!
When actively trying to avoid a headache, I do NOT recommend this video!
absolutely agree about distinguishing unnecessary complexity and complexity that fits
Ooh, look at Adam Neely over here!
Only just found your channel a couple of days ago (big fan of what I've seen) but followed your recommendation to listen to Tigran and have been listening to him non stop! He is one hella djenty piano boi 🙌🎹🤘
I'm feeling like Adam has competition.
Or a new friend! We all watch all of these dudes
So glad you did a video on this! Been listening to Tigran for quite a few years, and he's got some so amazing music out there!
so, can we just call it the ling ling time signature?
Incredible analysis, thank you. I've been counting the days to his April concert in Los Angeles.. can't wait.
Charles is the link between my love for Tigran and GMM that I didn’t know I needed
man i love that song, i went to a Tigran Hamasyan show this year and had a chance to talk with him a little.. omg he is such a nice person.. the concert was so charming.. i was vibing for the whole duration it was perfect.. best hours of my life probably.. he didn't play Vardavar though:D he went through The Call Within album..
Lovely explanation too im not musically educated but its so understandable.
How do you not have 10 million subs yet? You're content is so great!
Your content is so broad and so rad! Well done for being unique!
What are the odds that i discover tigran yesterday and literally right after, you put out a dissection of my favorite song of his. Dang i'm lucky!!
oh man, you gotta do more videos about Tigran’s stuff. like The Grid and Out of the Grid. i just feel like there’s a lot that could be talked about, his work is incredible
You probably won’t read this, but I was drifting away from Jazz in my school, even considering quitting the band. You really inspired to get back into it and now I’m enjoying it way better, and for that, I thank you.
I have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about..but you’re killin it man.
Dude. Amazing. One of my favorite videos you've ever made
Thank you ..... I discovered Tigran because of this video 2 years ago..... Thank you
Thanks for introducing me to him; he’s now one of my favorites.
It's awesome to see that some of my favorite music RUclipsrs love
Tigran's music, cause he's severely underated in my local jazz scene even amongst those into "prog" jazz.
I got to hear Tigran Hamasyan play with the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra very recently. He is absolutely brilliant, and his musicianship blew my mind! It was super cool to stumble upon your video and get a breakdown of this composition!
Charles, you are a tank! Thank you for teaching me so much, and for helping me profoundly appreciate music even more!
I know this video won't get a ton of views but this was very informative and I liked it! Learn something new everyday!
It's great to explore time signatures, whether it's how songs have complex tike signatures or are more simple than they sound! I'd enjoy learning more about it
Amazing video! You should absolutely make more videos about Tigran! The way he combines musical ideas from traditional Armenian music, jazz, and progressive metal is just otherworldly.
I am SO glad you made this video! It's fascinating, and I love Tigran so much, it's really great to hear you talk about his music! Thank you!
THANK YOU FOR FINALLY EXPLAINING THIS SONG. I've been listening to this song for forever and I have NEVER been able to wrap my brain around just wtf was happening with the time signature.
This is my favorite stuff, both really simple and really complex.