In general, how a new ski boot fits and flexes at a store vs. how it feels and flexes out in the real cold environment are always very different. Just when you think you've bought the flex pattern you're looking for, when you hit the slopes, boy those things stiffened up! Thanks for explaining and demonstrating the liners. If they cost 300 dollars instead of 550, I think it would be a much more motivational tool in that brand.
Awesome review. I just got some Freerides and basically made my 3 year old Mach1 LVs brand new. I'd recommend most people use the stock liner in their new boot purchase until it feels packed out and then replace with a Zipfit vs. buying a whole new shell and liner. You can use the same shell for a long time. I also leave my liner in the shell like Bob. The shop recommended this. If you're really set on world cupping into the boot, get a boot horn. The Technicas I use have "wings" on the inside that make getting my heel in very difficult thus shop recommended leaving liner in. I'm also a person with a small boot size and the laces plus powerstrap is just a lot of stuff to manage in a small space. My heel is still held down without the laces and strap; my ankles almost hurt a little on the first couple days the hold is so much. So glad I made the purchase, it's made my skiing better.
I worked pretty extensively with Jeff from zipfit to get the best fitting liner. He is an amazing guy with a dream for making zipfit a standard. For good reason. It’s a game changer. I tried the Gara LV, World Cup sidewinder, and the Corsa. I skied each one for atleast a half a day over a week. Ultimately, I went with the Corsa as the other ones my feet went numb halfway through the first run. Maybe if cork was removed they might have been better. The Corsa has the full leather lining which I think should be in all of them. In response to how to put them in the ski boot. I sincerely recommend the World Cup way both on and off. The key is to kneel down putting your toe in first and then standing up to sink the heel down.
Thank you so much for deep diving into ZipFit, I believe your team has the most expertise in the whole world talking about ski gear and your review is the most valuable out there. Have been watching every single video on you channel for 2 years, you're like a wikipedia to ski gear. Best RUclips gear channel!
Purchased my Zipfit GARA in 2006. It looks a little worn on the outside from world cupping the boot on and off for 19 years. A hot bootbag definitely makes a easier entry. Exit after skiing can be some work but very doable when you get used to it, As mentioned in the video, comfort and control every day, year after year!!!! This liner has seen 4 shells. Buy shell, make a few punches then drop in the Zipfit and go. I have been skiing 60 + days for the last 10 years post retirement. Twenty to thirty when I was working. Highly recommend!!!
Really happy that Zipfit and Fischer partnered up and made these available as a stock liner on the RC4 Pro models. The liners have become an essentials piece of my skiing gear now and I don't think I'll ever go skiing without my them again.
I got RC4 Pro MV Boa, it includes the zipfit and it doesn’t increase the boot price too much so it a good value. So if you are in the market for new boots, they are worth a look.
@@skyshade9106its not really cheaper made. Zipfit has a comparison in their page. They just removed the power strap. Zipfit even included designs from fischer (laces for the worldcop and the sole design)
Just commenting in here on microwaves, they vary in power significantly. To avoid melting your liners or causing damage - seeing a professional bootfitter like Allison at Inner Bootworks is great. We also recommend a hair dryer, you could fill some nalgene bottles with boiling water and placing them in the liner to warm up the cork, the hot dry rice in the ski sock method... plenty of options.
Spot on review, Gents! Skied them yesterday for the first time (day before your review) and I experienced every single thing you mentioned. Sweet comfort. Unbelievable connection to the skis/responsiveness. Shock at the price. However, all worth it, especially when considering 500+ future days in them vs. (what?) about 100 in a stock liner.
After listening to your comments on tight fit in the fore foot, I thought I’d share what happened to me with wearing to narrow of a work boot. I am a retired union carpenter and always wore the same size boot since high school. I always liked a tight fitting boot and never experienced discomfort. That is until I started feeling like my sock was wrinkled under the ball of my foot. Turned out that I was suffering from a thing called Morton’s Neuroma, which involves a thickening of the tissue around one of the nerves leading to your toes. This can cause a sharp, burning pain in the ball of your foot. It’s also non-reversible, I ended up having the nerve between my big toe and second toe, frozen to relieve the pain. This is all caused from wearing too narrow of work boots for years. I didn’t realize that my feet were getting longer and wider as I grew older it’s just a heads up for you guys as you’re always wearing such a tight boots. It really enjoy all your videos. Keep up the good work Tim.
I am on only my fourth day with ZipFit Freeride liners. Despite all the good reviews I had read prior to purchasing, I was still surprised by how great they have been. Aside from the precise fit around the heel and ankle, two other features appealed to me: the flexible neoprene toe box and the flexible fluted cuff. I have a wide forefoot, and skiing with the stock liners caused pain. I was pretty sure I would need to stretch my shells to add width a second time. But the flexible neoprene forefoot has eliminated any painful forefoot compression compared to skiing with the stock liner, which is relatively narrow and full of thick foam around the forefoot. I also have large calves, and the flexible fluted cuff accommodates my calves better than other liners I have used.
ATTN FULL TIME PATROLLERS: 1ST zip fit is difficutl to work with. There is crazy process to make the liners, but come on zipfit 2ND. The Work Horse and Freeride are likely your liner 3rd: The liners will change your foot health and the stability helps with your knee longevity due to increased stability. 4th: have a realistic break in period. 5th. It will stiffen your current boot 6th Should last 300 days or more of 10hr days 7th. Totally worth it, regardless of zipfit being difficult, likely due to landing cost, the liners will change your work days. These guys were spot on. 1/2 our team uses them. Won't ever go back to peasant liners.
Getting into k2 cortex dual boa with zipfit gara lv, was impossible until i saw your video. The most important thing is to pull out all the cord from the boa dial. And i used also a zipfit horn
I don't have a ZipFit liner but a different brand of aftermarket liner on a par with ZipFit by the sounds of it. It was to replace an old standard liner that came with my boots. I had it molded by a boot fitter and included a footed. Since getting the liner, I have skied better than I have for a few years. The overall boot seems stiffer because of it but the comfort is way better, especially in the tongue area. I am only really an intermediate level skier and I noticed a big difference. Best thing I've done since owning equipment.
comment from Peugeot Bob; Hi Guys, I thoroughly enjoyed your zipfit review . Thanks for doing it. I've been on the fence for years about them and came to the conclusion that I just wouldn't be able to tie 'em on and THEN slip into the shell ( Lange RX 130 & my preferred old RS 120 that are super old but have tons of forward lean which I like ) I struggle at the car in the parking lot putting them on and Especially taking them off when frozen ... I guess I should add that I am 69 years old .. You talked me in to them though ... and what I think will make it work is a pair of Rossi Vizion 120 MV -- they open up almost like a rear entry .. cool. Hhaa, a senior citizen's dream 🙂, though I'll probably lose some precision but the improved fit and ease donning and doffing (am a long time SCUBA diver 🤣) will probly be worth it. Getting quite long winded here, but for added information my daily driver is a pair of Dynastar Speed Zone 12's; standing by are assorted Legends and Powertrack 89's for if'n we get real snow ... oh yeah and some 963's are on the way because they've been closed out. I hope you review the replacement Omeglas series since they are bringing them back Big Time. Thanks again for all your reviews .. they are enjoyable and appreciated . 👍 Bobruclips.net/user/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f642.png
This will be my 3rd season in Zipfit liners (1 Workhorse, 1 Fischer RC4) and I can't imagine not having this liner. I've used Intuitions (wraps and tongue style), injection molded liners, stock liners, and the Zipfits stand alone at the top of the performance hill. The Atomic Mimic injection liner is probably the 2nd closest option I've tried. That's not to say any of those other options are bad, they're certainly not! But what has already been said just cannot be overstated, there is no other liner I've ever experienced that has put my body in such direct control of my skis. For any new adopters, ask around before you make the switch, they work better with some boots than others. If you take the plunge be prepared to be patient with the process, it takes time to dial the fit in. The pay off is that the liner doesn't pack out after 30 days like a foam liner does. I truly believe most people that throw in the towel on these just didn't put in the time to move the cork around to work out the hot spots. The liner you buy makes a difference as well. Bob and Jeff are reviewing the two models with what I would consider the largest delta between their construction, which makes this a great video. The Workhorse with the leather construction seriously does lock down your foot. I have no idea how Bob got his foot into that liner with it already in the shell, don't count on putting your boot on like that, I literally cannot physically get my foot into them like Bob did. Jeff's style of entry is the more traditional style of entry, but there are also other things you can do to make entry easier. Silicone spray, UMHW tape, etc... And just to get ahead of it; Yes, they are expensive.
It's so funny because I cannot get my foot in the boot racer style like Jeff. I find my success comes from really opening the lower shell as wide as possible. Thank you for your feedback and this great information!
I agree with the point at 22:10. If your concern is skiing well and becoming a better skier. Your jacket being 600 dollars has no appreciable benefit over a 100 dollar jacket. I’ve bee using an REI 2.5 layer goretex rain jacket (that I bought on sale for 80 bucks), and had NO issue whatsoever. I wish it was 1 size larger for a bit bigger of a hood and better layering. But saving 200 or 300 dollars on a rain jacket opens up more money for a much better boot experience. I don’t even have snow pants yet either, just using a stretchy pair of hiking pants that go over the boot and I layer with synthetic base layers and synthetic sweat pants.
Just wanted to add on a few thoughts from my endeavor as well. Heated boot bags are amazing for these. Makes slipping into the shells much easier (in addition with the zipfit boot horn but not necessary), and you start your day off with a warm boot. I also used the boot bag to do the first molding of my boots. Left the zipfits by themselves in the bag for a few hours, then before putting them on I threw in a microwaved sock filled with rice to heat the inside more as well. Zipfit also has an online 'quiz' where you put in your boot model, size, and additional information and it will tell you the recommended liner for your use. I'd say it is accurate in recommending the correct liner for ones use. And I think when people say packing out it's more so meaning the first few days on the boot where you may have pressure points in areas where the cork hasn't yet moved away from. Typically if you do the molding that movement of the cork will be greatly accelerated.
I've had Zipfits for 10 years, had a pair of garas which lasted for 7 years and 3 different boots Rossi, daebello and rc4 's.(Ski 20-30 days/yr). Tongue leather at toe wore out so bought a pair of corsa's Going from one shell to another may require more or less cork so having the plunger and couple of tubes of cork make sense if you switch shells. Cork can be reused once removed just stuff it back into tube for next time. Things I've learned: adjusting fit from one boot shell to another isn't difficult, adding or removing cork is a breeze so get the plunger and tubes of cork, world cupping takes a bit to get comfortable with but works the best, don't use the bottom eyelet, more comfort in the toe box and easier to tighten, use the corsa speed laces as the never loosen, it has a different clasp which is less intrusive and make it easy to tighten and they come in 3 lengths. Last trick is to warm the shells(car or boot heater)makes "world cupping" a breeze.
One interesting detail would be the size selection of the liner for you guys. Meaning foot size vs. liner. I know Jeff "downsized" the liner to the shell size 24.5. But there's a bit of mixed information on the size selection. Some wear "their size" in a smaller shell, some wear a downsized liner in a "their size" shell. And then there's a wearing a liner in the size of the shell, whether the shell is "your size" or down a size. Also a small heads up: the written article subtitle says "Jeff's Review: ZipFit Workhorse" in the subtitle. But contents is all good.
I’ve had zipfit liners in my boots for 19 years (15 days/year average skiing). They are still in great shape. Mine have a leather interior. I have found that spraying a little silicone inside the boot makes them so much easier to get into the boot. An added benefit is that the silicone preserves the leather. I do it the night before skiing so as to allow the silicone to penetrate and avoid any reaction to the silicone. I also was fascinated to see Jeff do a “World Cup” entry. Never thought of it. I do wonder how much wear and tear on the liner would result from this method.
The World Cup entry is the preferred and recommended method, although it certainly doesn't work for everyone. Using their boot horn (plastic flat shoehorn, basically) seems to eliminate wear and tear on the heel part on the way down. We have not tried it yet, but it seems like it'd work well.
Using an Adnee Ski Horn makes for easier entry. You can make one out of a piece of crazy carpet. Purchased my zip fits at the begining of the season. Had a good fitter set them up. After a few skis a small adjustment was made. I love the heel lock and the room around the front of the foot. I can now actually feel the balls of my feet and using shuttle weight transfer my skiing has improved. I love the easy weight transfer and how simple it is to skate on the flats. I have them in a pair of delbello Lupa 120's and I am happy I purchased the zip fits instead of new boots. If you are serious about skiing better do not hesitate to upgrade to these liners. I am over seventy , love to ski hard, and I am enjoying skiing more than any time in my life. Thanks zip fits. Ken Z.
I feel like a lot of the positives are also given in the intuition pro liners from a k2 fl3x revolver team especially the tong and the forefoot is also very flexy
Im using the touring liner with a head raptor WCR and boy oh boy getting in and out of those is a challenge. I have to sit in the car after skiing to bring the shell temperature up before I can take them off. 😂
Tbh considering how in depth you guys understand ski construction, and Bob's bootfitting background, I'm actually kinda amazed you never got into zipfits.. they're lifechanging. maybe only the closest thing I've found similar in terms of fit is the atomic foam injection liners. Just a heads up, if you're in a LV boot, and reasonably stocky build, the gara LV (a mid volume liner) takes up too much room in your boot. Consider the corsa, or sidewinder, a low volume liner, especially if you don't have a thin lower leg. That or if you want a mid volume zip fit, get a mid volume last shell. Jeff: try a booster strap inside the shell at the top, mimics the effect of the zipfit strap, realllllly locks in the upper cuff, I didn't like the zipfit strap either
Heated boot bag solves all of the cold issues Jeff mentions. I even use mine in my house which makes it very easy to get on. Used my first zipfit for 500 days, still had life but I liken it to snow tires. Last 4,000 miles on snow tires are not that great. New liner was immediately better. Have about 300 days on this one. Buy extra cork. So easy to put in. Most important is to just put in a little at a time as it is more difficult to get it out if you put too much in.
Just heat the shells. You want a slight remold each time. You do it by the boot heating the liner. World cup entry is very easy when shells are warm. I use kuklea heated bag. Low setting for 2 hours. Plug in lighter on way to hill
If heating the liner in a boot bag or using heat vent deforms it, so will the heat of your foot in half an hour of skiing..... Try for as thin and non-padded liner as possible and use precision shell fit.
I was struggling to World Cup into my atomics with the zip fit even though I was using a boot Horn and silicon spray until I learned a different technique. The key was pointing my toe straight down and driving my knee straight to the ground which allowed me to put all my weight downward and into the boot. Then I just have to do a little opening of the cuff with my hands and I can slide the liner right in. Now I can get in and out of them without trouble. And to be clear I put my boots on and off standing outside of my car in the parking lot.
I moved to a Zipfit liner last season and it's incredible the difference it's made to my skiing and they're so comfortable. However I leave the liners in my boot because I just can't get in an out of the boot I have and even with them in the boot ngl it's still a struggle to get my foot in and out of there... but once they're in it's so good.
Try replacing the blue laces (and locking mechanism) with the version from the Corsa. It's way better and really should just be included with all their liners. The other thing that helps with getting the liners on/off easier, as well as reducing damage to the heel area, is put some ultra high molecular weight tape on the spine inside the shell and then some teflon tape on the lower overlap of the instep area. Makes the step in way more slippery and reduces fraying of the heel.
Great review! But, in the spirit of the presentation, here's five questions! 1) how does the warmth compare to an Intuition? 2) how does that loose feel in the toe box & locked in heels work with ski touring - do you get movement & toe bang up front, and rubbing at the heel? 3) how easy is it to dial in the fit (of the cork filled areas) from new? 4) is it advisable to order cork tubes with new liners, or will the standard amount of cork suit the majority of skiers? 5) are there certain features in a shell that will cause these to work less well than they would in other shells? Thanks in advance!
Love it! 1. It's a different warmth, and I'm comparing it to a wrap liner in a telemark boot, which is most similar to a cabrio ski boot. The Intuition feels warmer overall while the Zip feels warmer in the toes. 2. They make a specific touring model, but I think it's mostly a lighter weight. I can't imagine there's any more movement than in a stock touring liner, and certainly minimal rubbing at the heel. 3. From new, I found that I didn't even have to heat and mold the liners, but I did it anyway. It moves the cork around to more vacant zones, creating a better overall fit. It took about 30 seconds per liner in the microwave then about 15 minutes in the shells to get the material to mold. Super easy. 4. My guess is that the standard amount of cork will work well for most skiers, especially if they get a good liner to boot combo. If you get an LV liner and have an HV boot, you're going to need more cork. 5. I could tell right away that the zip works best in a roomy LV boot for me. It's a bit roomy in an MV, but a narrower heel and ankle pocket such as Lange Shadow LV and RS 130 makes the zip very tight.
@ - Thanks x 5 for the detailed response! Useful guidance on all points, especially about the size of shell relative to the amount of cork & heat needed.
Some people have instep pain with the ZipFits. If this is you, remove the laces, take a pair of sharp scissors to the plastic border around the lower tongue, and cut it out all the way to the base. Works perfectly.
Great review!! Picked up some leather lined Zipfits around '04 from Le Ski Lab, Winter Park with a Dalbello 3 piece Cabrio. Bucket volume shell allowed a nice wide footbed but didn't know about 'World Cupping' so binned them when the ankle pocket became irretrievably wrinkled :( Had the original Gara in San Marco TR2 and switched to LV Gara in Garmont Shaman. Best fit outside of foamed liners! Wife still happy with orrignal higher volume Gara in her Garmont Astras but had heel pressure issues for a couple of weeks whilst breaking them in. Most comparable to the feel of the sport foam Boot Doctor foam liners but those had some foam leak under the heel during fitting. World Cupping with a quick burst of spray silicon inside the shell allows a sublime fit. Seriously, do try it. Without using the silicon, liner sometimes just doesn't seat right :/ Perhaps it's the grippy rubber bootboard? Never been happier. Love how the Zipfits never stop molding during the day. Particularly those warm afternoons when feet tend to swell. They really work well with stupidly thin silk ski socks. Have now bought some Work Horse with the thinner leather liner (& 20% more OMFit) but haven't tried them yet. Daughter loves the 26.5 Work Horse in her 25.5 Salomon Shift Alpha BOA 115 with added cork in the tongues and needs the 'ski boot horn' as sold by Zipfit to 'World Cup' past the walk mode mechanism. Will also be getting the GFT touring version for the Technica Guide Zero G. Can't say enough good things about the Zipfits :) Plus one for use with a Hotgear Bag.
ZipFit owner here, They are awesome, except for putting them on and taking off when you're booting up in the parking lot. But it's worth it if you appreciate top performance and clock a lot of hours on the hill.
Makes a person wonder why boot shell design hasn't changed that much over the decades, and why entry and exit has to be such a point of contention in the sport.
Second the endorsement of heated boot bags. Not only makes sliding the Zipfits into the shell easy, it also keeps your feet warmer for longer than anything short of toe warmers or heated socks/footbeds. I have also used waterproof shoe covers over the Zipfits for driving up to the mountain in the Zipfits (and even walking around grocery stores after skiing), so you're ready to slip into the (heated) shells right out of the car.
I used to be a big Booster strap fan but have largely moved on. I am fully aware that many skiers swear by them and love them and that's great, but I now prefer the stock straps on most boots these days as I've found they're more predictable in transmitting energy consistently. I'd get a World Cup Booster, though!
Reading a lot of comments online, it seems a good amount of people had to tinker around with adding/removing/moving around the cork material over the course of time to dial in the fit (though it also sounded like most everyone was quite happy with the results). If I'm a casual who will probably only get around 10 days at most a season, will I be better off with the stock liner if it's working fine for me? I can still ski hard, it's just my days are limited these days to having kids who are going to be learning for the next few seasons...
Interesting that you felt they made the boots stiffer. Would you recommend against switching liners if your boot Flex is already on the stiff side? I'm considering going down to a 120 Flex on my next boot. I'm glad you made a direct comparison to the technica Mach 1 130. That's what I own.
You can usually soften shells, not sure if your T-Drive can have a rivet removed or not. I've found that I can simply leave the power strap and the top buckle a bit looser and then the boot feels perfect in flex because the heel/ankle is still locked in.
I have removed one rivet. I do think it is a touch softer. The consensus online seems to be about 10% reduction in stiffness. Which I think is pretty close@@SkiEssentials
This is excellent. Why do you suppose Bob can get in and out of the leather version so much easier than Jeff with the neoprene version? I would have expected the opposite. Might it have anything to do with Jeff’s boot being a double boa? Many thanks.
I (Bob) have no idea. I don't have good flexibility so going racer style is very difficult and the leather doesn't like to slide along the plastic--it's very sticky. I can open the lower shell pretty far with my hands when putting them on, it's not any more difficult than a lot of other skiers seem to have with stock liners.
Great review, have you guys tried booster straps? Looking to upgrade my boots will more then likely be getting some zipfits but have heard good things about the booster straps as well.
A booster strap is fine. I used to be all about them but have now moved back to liking the stock straps because they're a bit more consistent. The ZipFit liner is a considerably more important component than a Booster Strap.
I’m guessing that these would be the best liners for those of us who wear Vivobarefoot and/or fivefingers on a regular bases? Is there a difference in toe box width between the different models?
I'd imagine the race-oriented liners are narrower but I'm not sure. In general, the toe box on the Gara and the Workhorse are both stretchy enough so that it's not an issue for width.
Bootfitter here. Depends how tight a 100mm boot fits on you. The only difference between lv and hv is the amount of cork that they have. If the 100mm boot is a tight performance fit get the gara LV. Adding cork to the zip fit is easier than taking it out so if the lv is loose you can always add more cork.
Oem liners last 150 days at most! There are skiers (Ski Patrollers for example) that have 700 plus days and still working . The cork does not really pack out and you can always add or subtract cork. In the long run…it may be cheaper to pay for ZipFits
Yes. Bob and Jeff talk about the cost of ZipFits having to be added to the cost of a new pair of boots. But in some cases ZipFits can be purchased to replace existing packed-out liners, in which cases paying for ZipFit liners is an alternative to paying for new boots. And as you say, it will probably be necessary to replace the ZipFit liners less often than shells. This raises the question of whether shells should be sold separately from liners by the boot manufacturers. I recall an Atomic employee explaining in a Blister podcast that selling shells separately would be difficult for the boot manufacturers to manage logistically and there wouldn't be much demand. But I notice that they do sell liners separately. As an alternative one can buy new boots and sell the stock liners.
This isn't really in our realm of expertise. We're only two months into the process and have really only paired our feet with one liner and maybe two or three different shells. There seems to be a whole world of information out there that you can access regarding these matches, but I don't think we're equipped to make that video.
Not sure! I feel that any foam-injected liner is going to have a similar end result when it comes to performance. The neoprene forefoot of the Zip, on the other hand, may not be a Surefoot thing.
The website says the workhorse is good for 150 days, not 500. Regardless, great review. I have been wondering about how a perfect fit liner might bring me to the next level.
Depends if your RS 130 is the right size or not. My general impression is that the Zip will help hold the heel in the liner, but if the shell is too big you may have to add cork.
Hi, I recently watched the first impressions video with the Rossignol sender 100 and was hoping to get your thoughts on them, I currently have the sender 110s and love them but was looking at a more versatile ski when there’s not fresh snow, I love the 110s and how stiff they are with the titanal underfoot and type air tip keeping the tip and tail playful. Is the 100 as stiff? I heard there was no metal in them so I’m not sure if they will be stiff enough for my liking as i like being able to go really really fast and not have my skis flopping around. Thank you
It's the same basic dimensions, just pared down. Also yes, not the same build, but it felt pretty stiff, just not as damp or stable. With the extra width in the 110, you kind of need extra stuff in the construction to make it stand up to more rigorous use. It didn't feel like a narrower version of the 110, it felt like a more park-oriented ski to me.
I use gara lv with my nordica pro machine 95 flex lv and i am super happy. I tried to put the zipfit in a new boot that i want to buy , which is 2026 k2 cortex 105 lv dual boa, and it is almost impossible to get in. Is it a problem of boa or k2 specifically? I wear first the liners and then get in the shell. Can you make a video of zipfits and getting in dual boa boots?
Well, we did include Jeff getting into his Dual BOA boot in this video! But yes, I do think it's a bit of a BOA thing, especially since I (Bob) haven't felt that it's easier to get into a lower BOA boot at any rate even with the stock liner. I just don't feel that the lower shell opens far enough even if there's slack on the cable. The going theory is that heated boot bags and boot horns work magic getting into any boot, Dual BOA included.
I would avoid using a microwave on these. My friend severely cosmetically damaged his Zipfits in his microwave reheating them for different shells. They are still functional, but scorched in several places on one liner. Far safer to use a convection oven IF the temperature can be kept low enough. My convection oven only goes down to 180 F, which I feel is too hot. You only need to get the cork warm to remold, so 135-140 F is sufficient. My "poor man" solution was to get a small cardboard moving box, punch a hole in it the size of a hair dryer or heat gun nozzle, an oven thermometer (the kind with a sharp metal rod you stick into meat). I put the liner in the box, close the top, put the heat gun in the hole, keep it on the LOWEST setting needed to get the internal box temperature at a consistent 140 F, and stick the oven thermometer right through the box to monitor it. I heat the liner at 140 F for 15 to 20 minutes to make sure it is heated evenly inside and out. Perfect results with NO possibility of damaging the liner due to overheating it! You can also remold these liners simply by skiing them in the new shells, but this takes much longer to move the cork around an can be somewhat uncomfortable in the process. I have also be told by other friends that putting the Zipfits a heated boot bag also works great. In any event, please avoid too much heat or you may destroy these liners!
Hello gents. Will a Gara HV fit into a Pro Machine 130 size 29.5? I know you can add more cork to the LV but I'm scared it won't be enough. My boot fitter was amazed how much he added to the stock liners and I still have the buckles clamped to the max. Thank you.
This is a situation where you want your foot, the boot, and hopefully the liner in a boot shop with someone who knows what they're doing. ZipFit also seems to have good service to help answer these questions.
@SkiEssentials thank you for your prompt reply. I did call zip fit and they think it will fit, thought you might have the two models in question. None of my local ski shops carry zips unfortunately. As always, great videos. Thanks again.
Advice from someone who fits zip fits regularly, use the liner as intended. Don’t go ripping the powerstrap or the laces off as quick as these guys did. Also putting it on correctly is essential. If you can’t or don’t want to World Cup into your boot don’t buy a zip fit. You are ruining the liner if you don’t and you won’t get the best fit.
I wouldn't go about it that way even though I do think the Zip stiffens the overall feel. Especially since the flex ratings of boots are not similar and sometimes the difference between a 120 and a 130 is the liner, not the plastic in the shell.
Probably similar end results, especially with this foam injection liner. The thing about the ZipFit is the ease of use and if the Mimic doesn't have a soft and supple forefoot zone, then there's that.
I'd imagine the end result in terms of heel and ankle hold will be similar. The forefoot fit and ease of use of the Zips are likely an upgrade over the Surefoot liners.
Speaking of Tecnica and stock liners in general. I have the Cochise 130 from a few seasons ago. The liner is fantastic, but it has packed out. The shell is still great though. I am on my 4th season with these, how long do stock liners last? I do 20-40 days each season, is my liner technically shot?
Yeah safe bet that your liner is either fully packed out or very close to it skiing 20-40 days/season. You’ll be able to feel it as well, for example if you notice your heel starting to lift/move or other areas of slop. Most stock liners can last anywhere from 60-100 days depending on how aggressive you are. As a bootfitter, once that liners packed out theres no solution. I can always make a boot bigger but never smaller. If you have a lot of slop you can try jbars/heel locks/foam in other areas to compensate and maybe get you through the rest of the season
I packed out my stock liner in 70 days of solid skiing, bought a zipfit after doing some research and have 60 days in them now. I can suggest them 100%. They will last you 1000 days if you take care of them, some have done even more
I'd imagine the end result of the foam-injected Atomic is similar in terms of performance and heel/ankle lock, but forefoot fit may be a different animal altogether.
@SkiEssentials I got the last year that atomic had the professional liner in the boot from factory. The customization of the tongue is nice. I'm still trying to figure out if lacing the liner up is worth it the hassle when putting boots on in the car. Any thoughts on the intuition style quick laces and if you can use on any liner. It would be sweet to do that without taking the liner out of the boot.
Will be just as good performance wise as it would be in a 4 buckle 2 piece boot. Honestly awesome in a cabrio because putting it on first and then stepping into the shell is so much easier with the folding tongue.
In general, how a new ski boot fits and flexes at a store vs. how it feels and flexes out in the real cold environment are always very different. Just when you think you've bought the flex pattern you're looking for, when you hit the slopes, boy those things stiffened up!
Thanks for explaining and demonstrating the liners.
If they cost 300 dollars instead of 550, I think it would be a much more motivational tool in that brand.
Awesome review. I just got some Freerides and basically made my 3 year old Mach1 LVs brand new. I'd recommend most people use the stock liner in their new boot purchase until it feels packed out and then replace with a Zipfit vs. buying a whole new shell and liner. You can use the same shell for a long time. I also leave my liner in the shell like Bob. The shop recommended this. If you're really set on world cupping into the boot, get a boot horn. The Technicas I use have "wings" on the inside that make getting my heel in very difficult thus shop recommended leaving liner in. I'm also a person with a small boot size and the laces plus powerstrap is just a lot of stuff to manage in a small space. My heel is still held down without the laces and strap; my ankles almost hurt a little on the first couple days the hold is so much. So glad I made the purchase, it's made my skiing better.
finally pulled the trigger on gara lv this season worth every single penny they’re phenomenal
I worked pretty extensively with Jeff from zipfit to get the best fitting liner. He is an amazing guy with a dream for making zipfit a standard. For good reason. It’s a game changer.
I tried the Gara LV, World Cup sidewinder, and the Corsa. I skied each one for atleast a half a day over a week. Ultimately, I went with the Corsa as the other ones my feet went numb halfway through the first run. Maybe if cork was removed they might have been better.
The Corsa has the full leather lining which I think should be in all of them.
In response to how to put them in the ski boot. I sincerely recommend the World Cup way both on and off. The key is to kneel down putting your toe in first and then standing up to sink the heel down.
Thank you so much for deep diving into ZipFit, I believe your team has the most expertise in the whole world talking about ski gear and your review is the most valuable out there. Have been watching every single video on you channel for 2 years, you're like a wikipedia to ski gear. Best RUclips gear channel!
First time in ZipFit ever this season. Amazing. Never going back!
2nd season in my Gara - truly amazing what an upgrade these are. Take these guys’ advice-if you’re considering them just do it. Worth every penny
Purchased my Zipfit GARA in 2006. It looks a little worn on the outside from world cupping the boot on and off for 19 years. A hot bootbag definitely makes a easier entry. Exit after skiing can be some work but very doable when you get used to it, As mentioned in the video, comfort and control every day, year after year!!!! This liner has seen 4 shells. Buy shell, make a few punches then drop in the Zipfit and go. I have been skiing 60 + days for the last 10 years post retirement. Twenty to thirty when I was working. Highly recommend!!!
Does anyone sell shells only or have you just been throwing out the stock liners?
@@darlondevera735 I throw out the liner.
what do you mean ''make a few punches'' ?
Really happy that Zipfit and Fischer partnered up and made these available as a stock liner on the RC4 Pro models. The liners have become an essentials piece of my skiing gear now and I don't think I'll ever go skiing without my them again.
I got RC4 Pro MV Boa, it includes the zipfit and it doesn’t increase the boot price too much so it a good value. So if you are in the market for new boots, they are worth a look.
Unfortunately its not the same liner as their real models its a dumbed down cheaper made more simple version but its still better then stock liners.
@@skyshade9106its not really cheaper made. Zipfit has a comparison in their page. They just removed the power strap.
Zipfit even included designs from fischer (laces for the worldcop and the sole design)
@@skyshade9106that’s not close to being true.
Best boot I have ever owned. To me this model of a zipfit made for a specific boot just makes complete sense. And adds more value. @@comesatime123
Just commenting in here on microwaves, they vary in power significantly.
To avoid melting your liners or causing damage - seeing a professional bootfitter like Allison at Inner Bootworks is great. We also recommend a hair dryer, you could fill some nalgene bottles with boiling water and placing them in the liner to warm up the cork, the hot dry rice in the ski sock method... plenty of options.
Thank you for this and great info. Anyone putting a boot anything in a microwave needs to go about it with common sense!
OK, you all need to get the Kulkea heated boot bags......life changing! And I did just order the Gara HV liners yesterday!
YESSSS! The review we've all been waiting for!🎉
Spot on review, Gents! Skied them yesterday for the first time (day before your review) and I experienced every single thing you mentioned. Sweet comfort. Unbelievable connection to the skis/responsiveness. Shock at the price. However, all worth it, especially when considering 500+ future days in them vs. (what?) about 100 in a stock liner.
After listening to your comments on tight fit in the fore foot, I thought I’d share what happened to me with wearing to narrow of a work boot. I am a retired union carpenter and always wore the same size boot since high school. I always liked a tight fitting boot and never experienced discomfort. That is until I started feeling like my sock was wrinkled under the ball of my foot. Turned out that I was suffering from a thing called Morton’s Neuroma, which involves a thickening of the tissue around one of the nerves leading to your toes. This can cause a sharp, burning pain in the ball of your foot. It’s also non-reversible, I ended up having the nerve between my big toe and second toe, frozen to relieve the pain. This is all caused from wearing too narrow of work boots for years. I didn’t realize that my feet were getting longer and wider as I grew older it’s just a heads up for you guys as you’re always wearing such a tight boots. It really enjoy all your videos. Keep up the good work Tim.
I am on only my fourth day with ZipFit Freeride liners. Despite all the good reviews I had read prior to purchasing, I was still surprised by how great they have been. Aside from the precise fit around the heel and ankle, two other features appealed to me: the flexible neoprene toe box and the flexible fluted cuff. I have a wide forefoot, and skiing with the stock liners caused pain. I was pretty sure I would need to stretch my shells to add width a second time. But the flexible neoprene forefoot has eliminated any painful forefoot compression compared to skiing with the stock liner, which is relatively narrow and full of thick foam around the forefoot. I also have large calves, and the flexible fluted cuff accommodates my calves better than other liners I have used.
ATTN FULL TIME PATROLLERS: 1ST zip fit is difficutl to work with. There is crazy process to make the liners, but come on zipfit
2ND. The Work Horse and Freeride are likely your liner
3rd: The liners will change your foot health and the stability helps with your knee longevity due to increased stability.
4th: have a realistic break in period.
5th. It will stiffen your current boot
6th Should last 300 days or more of 10hr days
7th. Totally worth it, regardless of zipfit being difficult, likely due to landing cost, the liners will change your work days. These guys were spot on. 1/2 our team uses them. Won't ever go back to peasant liners.
Getting into k2 cortex dual boa with zipfit gara lv, was impossible until i saw your video. The most important thing is to pull out all the cord from the boa dial. And i used also a zipfit horn
I don't have a ZipFit liner but a different brand of aftermarket liner on a par with ZipFit by the sounds of it. It was to replace an old standard liner that came with my boots. I had it molded by a boot fitter and included a footed. Since getting the liner, I have skied better than I have for a few years.
The overall boot seems stiffer because of it but the comfort is way better, especially in the tongue area. I am only really an intermediate level skier and I noticed a big difference. Best thing I've done since owning equipment.
comment from Peugeot Bob; Hi Guys, I thoroughly enjoyed your zipfit review . Thanks for doing it. I've been on the fence for years about them and came to the conclusion that I just wouldn't be able to tie 'em on and THEN slip into the shell ( Lange RX 130 & my preferred old RS 120 that are super old but have tons of forward lean which I like ) I struggle at the car in the parking lot putting them on and Especially taking them off when frozen ... I guess I should add that I am 69 years old .. You talked me in to them though ... and what I think will make it work is a pair of Rossi Vizion 120 MV -- they open up almost like a rear entry .. cool. Hhaa, a senior citizen's dream 🙂, though I'll probably lose some precision but the improved fit and ease donning and doffing (am a long time SCUBA diver 🤣) will probly be worth it. Getting quite long winded here, but for added information my daily driver is a pair of Dynastar Speed Zone 12's; standing by are assorted Legends and Powertrack 89's for if'n we get real snow ... oh yeah and some 963's are on the way because they've been closed out. I hope you review the replacement Omeglas series since they are bringing them back Big Time. Thanks again for all your reviews .. they are enjoyable and appreciated . 👍 Bobruclips.net/user/sgaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u1f642.png
This will be my 3rd season in Zipfit liners (1 Workhorse, 1 Fischer RC4) and I can't imagine not having this liner. I've used Intuitions (wraps and tongue style), injection molded liners, stock liners, and the Zipfits stand alone at the top of the performance hill. The Atomic Mimic injection liner is probably the 2nd closest option I've tried. That's not to say any of those other options are bad, they're certainly not! But what has already been said just cannot be overstated, there is no other liner I've ever experienced that has put my body in such direct control of my skis.
For any new adopters, ask around before you make the switch, they work better with some boots than others. If you take the plunge be prepared to be patient with the process, it takes time to dial the fit in. The pay off is that the liner doesn't pack out after 30 days like a foam liner does. I truly believe most people that throw in the towel on these just didn't put in the time to move the cork around to work out the hot spots. The liner you buy makes a difference as well. Bob and Jeff are reviewing the two models with what I would consider the largest delta between their construction, which makes this a great video. The Workhorse with the leather construction seriously does lock down your foot. I have no idea how Bob got his foot into that liner with it already in the shell, don't count on putting your boot on like that, I literally cannot physically get my foot into them like Bob did. Jeff's style of entry is the more traditional style of entry, but there are also other things you can do to make entry easier. Silicone spray, UMHW tape, etc...
And just to get ahead of it; Yes, they are expensive.
It's so funny because I cannot get my foot in the boot racer style like Jeff. I find my success comes from really opening the lower shell as wide as possible. Thank you for your feedback and this great information!
I agree with the point at 22:10. If your concern is skiing well and becoming a better skier. Your jacket being 600 dollars has no appreciable benefit over a 100 dollar jacket. I’ve bee using an REI 2.5 layer goretex rain jacket (that I bought on sale for 80 bucks), and had NO issue whatsoever. I wish it was 1 size larger for a bit bigger of a hood and better layering. But saving 200 or 300 dollars on a rain jacket opens up more money for a much better boot experience. I don’t even have snow pants yet either, just using a stretchy pair of hiking pants that go over the boot and I layer with synthetic base layers and synthetic sweat pants.
Just wanted to add on a few thoughts from my endeavor as well. Heated boot bags are amazing for these. Makes slipping into the shells much easier (in addition with the zipfit boot horn but not necessary), and you start your day off with a warm boot. I also used the boot bag to do the first molding of my boots. Left the zipfits by themselves in the bag for a few hours, then before putting them on I threw in a microwaved sock filled with rice to heat the inside more as well.
Zipfit also has an online 'quiz' where you put in your boot model, size, and additional information and it will tell you the recommended liner for your use. I'd say it is accurate in recommending the correct liner for ones use. And I think when people say packing out it's more so meaning the first few days on the boot where you may have pressure points in areas where the cork hasn't yet moved away from. Typically if you do the molding that movement of the cork will be greatly accelerated.
Relatable and practical information.
I've had Zipfits for 10 years, had a pair of garas which lasted for 7 years and 3 different boots Rossi, daebello and rc4 's.(Ski 20-30 days/yr). Tongue leather at toe wore out so bought a pair of corsa's
Going from one shell to another may require more or less cork so having the plunger and couple of tubes of cork make sense if you switch shells. Cork can be reused once removed just stuff it back into tube for next time. Things I've learned: adjusting fit from one boot shell to another isn't difficult, adding or removing cork is a breeze so get the plunger and tubes of cork, world cupping takes a bit to get comfortable with but works the best, don't use the bottom eyelet, more comfort in the toe box and easier to tighten, use the corsa speed laces as the never loosen, it has a different clasp which is less intrusive and make it easy to tighten and they come in 3 lengths. Last trick is to warm the shells(car or boot heater)makes "world cupping" a breeze.
Couldn’t be better timing. Waiting for this.
Coming to Stowe in a few weeks. Would love to stop by and say hi
One interesting detail would be the size selection of the liner for you guys. Meaning foot size vs. liner. I know Jeff "downsized" the liner to the shell size 24.5. But there's a bit of mixed information on the size selection. Some wear "their size" in a smaller shell, some wear a downsized liner in a "their size" shell. And then there's a wearing a liner in the size of the shell, whether the shell is "your size" or down a size.
Also a small heads up: the written article subtitle says "Jeff's Review: ZipFit Workhorse" in the subtitle. But contents is all good.
I’ve had zipfit liners in my boots for 19 years (15 days/year average skiing). They are still in great shape. Mine have a leather interior. I have found that spraying a little silicone inside the boot makes them so much easier to get into the boot. An added benefit is that the silicone preserves the leather. I do it the night before skiing so as to allow the silicone to penetrate and avoid any reaction to the silicone.
I also was fascinated to see Jeff do a “World Cup” entry. Never thought of it. I do wonder how much wear and tear on the liner would result from this method.
The World Cup entry is the preferred and recommended method, although it certainly doesn't work for everyone. Using their boot horn (plastic flat shoehorn, basically) seems to eliminate wear and tear on the heel part on the way down. We have not tried it yet, but it seems like it'd work well.
Using an Adnee Ski Horn makes for easier entry. You can make one out of a piece of crazy carpet. Purchased my zip fits at the begining of the season. Had a good fitter set them up. After a few skis a small adjustment was made. I love the heel lock and the room around the front of the foot. I can now actually feel the balls of my feet and using shuttle weight transfer my skiing has improved. I love the easy weight transfer and how simple it is to skate on the flats. I have them in a pair of delbello Lupa 120's and I am happy I purchased the zip fits instead of new boots. If you are serious about skiing better do not hesitate to upgrade to these liners. I am over seventy , love to ski hard, and I am enjoying skiing more than any time in my life. Thanks zip fits.
Ken Z.
I feel like a lot of the positives are also given in the intuition pro liners from a k2 fl3x revolver team especially the tong and the forefoot is also very flexy
a trick i got from my bootfitter is to lightly spray the shell with silicon spay and use the "world cup method", it just slips in ;)
Im using the touring liner with a head raptor WCR and boy oh boy getting in and out of those is a challenge. I have to sit in the car after skiing to bring the shell temperature up before I can take them off. 😂
Tbh considering how in depth you guys understand ski construction, and Bob's bootfitting background, I'm actually kinda amazed you never got into zipfits.. they're lifechanging. maybe only the closest thing I've found similar in terms of fit is the atomic foam injection liners. Just a heads up, if you're in a LV boot, and reasonably stocky build, the gara LV (a mid volume liner) takes up too much room in your boot. Consider the corsa, or sidewinder, a low volume liner, especially if you don't have a thin lower leg. That or if you want a mid volume zip fit, get a mid volume last shell.
Jeff: try a booster strap inside the shell at the top, mimics the effect of the zipfit strap, realllllly locks in the upper cuff, I didn't like the zipfit strap either
Heated boot bag solves all of the cold issues Jeff mentions. I even use mine in my house which makes it very easy to get on. Used my first zipfit for 500 days, still had life but I liken it to snow tires. Last 4,000 miles on snow tires are not that great. New liner was immediately better. Have about 300 days on this one. Buy extra cork. So easy to put in. Most important is to just put in a little at a time as it is more difficult to get it out if you put too much in.
Any concerns at all with the heated boot bag re liner life? Is it getting heat molded every time do ya think? Thanks for any insight!
Just heat the shells. You want a slight remold each time. You do it by the boot heating the liner. World cup entry is very easy when shells are warm. I use kuklea heated bag. Low setting for 2 hours. Plug in lighter on way to hill
If heating the liner in a boot bag or using heat vent deforms it, so will the heat of your foot in half an hour of skiing.....
Try for as thin and non-padded liner as possible and use precision shell fit.
I was struggling to World Cup into my atomics with the zip fit even though I was using a boot Horn and silicon spray until I learned a different technique. The key was pointing my toe straight down and driving my knee straight to the ground which allowed me to put all my weight downward and into the boot. Then I just have to do a little opening of the cuff with my hands and I can slide the liner right in.
Now I can get in and out of them without trouble.
And to be clear I put my boots on and off standing outside of my car in the parking lot.
I moved to a Zipfit liner last season and it's incredible the difference it's made to my skiing and they're so comfortable. However I leave the liners in my boot because I just can't get in an out of the boot I have and even with them in the boot ngl it's still a struggle to get my foot in and out of there... but once they're in it's so good.
Looking forward to that K2 Cortex 140 review!!! 👀👀
Try replacing the blue laces (and locking mechanism) with the version from the Corsa. It's way better and really should just be included with all their liners. The other thing that helps with getting the liners on/off easier, as well as reducing damage to the heel area, is put some ultra high molecular weight tape on the spine inside the shell and then some teflon tape on the lower overlap of the instep area. Makes the step in way more slippery and reduces fraying of the heel.
Great review! But, in the spirit of the presentation, here's five questions!
1) how does the warmth compare to an Intuition?
2) how does that loose feel in the toe box & locked in heels work with ski touring - do you get movement & toe bang up front, and rubbing at the heel?
3) how easy is it to dial in the fit (of the cork filled areas) from new?
4) is it advisable to order cork tubes with new liners, or will the standard amount of cork suit the majority of skiers?
5) are there certain features in a shell that will cause these to work less well than they would in other shells?
Thanks in advance!
Love it!
1. It's a different warmth, and I'm comparing it to a wrap liner in a telemark boot, which is most similar to a cabrio ski boot. The Intuition feels warmer overall while the Zip feels warmer in the toes.
2. They make a specific touring model, but I think it's mostly a lighter weight. I can't imagine there's any more movement than in a stock touring liner, and certainly minimal rubbing at the heel.
3. From new, I found that I didn't even have to heat and mold the liners, but I did it anyway. It moves the cork around to more vacant zones, creating a better overall fit. It took about 30 seconds per liner in the microwave then about 15 minutes in the shells to get the material to mold. Super easy.
4. My guess is that the standard amount of cork will work well for most skiers, especially if they get a good liner to boot combo. If you get an LV liner and have an HV boot, you're going to need more cork.
5. I could tell right away that the zip works best in a roomy LV boot for me. It's a bit roomy in an MV, but a narrower heel and ankle pocket such as Lange Shadow LV and RS 130 makes the zip very tight.
@ - Thanks x 5 for the detailed response! Useful guidance on all points, especially about the size of shell relative to the amount of cork & heat needed.
Some people have instep pain with the ZipFits. If this is you, remove the laces, take a pair of sharp scissors to the plastic border around the lower tongue, and cut it out all the way to the base. Works perfectly.
Great review!! Picked up some leather lined Zipfits around '04 from Le Ski Lab, Winter Park with a Dalbello 3 piece Cabrio. Bucket volume shell allowed a nice wide footbed but didn't know about 'World Cupping' so binned them when the ankle pocket became irretrievably wrinkled :( Had the original Gara in San Marco TR2 and switched to LV Gara in Garmont Shaman. Best fit outside of foamed liners! Wife still happy with orrignal higher volume Gara in her Garmont Astras but had heel pressure issues for a couple of weeks whilst breaking them in. Most comparable to the feel of the sport foam Boot Doctor foam liners but those had some foam leak under the heel during fitting. World Cupping with a quick burst of spray silicon inside the shell allows a sublime fit. Seriously, do try it. Without using the silicon, liner sometimes just doesn't seat right :/ Perhaps it's the grippy rubber bootboard? Never been happier. Love how the Zipfits never stop molding during the day. Particularly those warm afternoons when feet tend to swell. They really work well with stupidly thin silk ski socks. Have now bought some Work Horse with the thinner leather liner (& 20% more OMFit) but haven't tried them yet. Daughter loves the 26.5 Work Horse in her 25.5 Salomon Shift Alpha BOA 115 with added cork in the tongues and needs the 'ski boot horn' as sold by Zipfit to 'World Cup' past the walk mode mechanism. Will also be getting the GFT touring version for the Technica Guide Zero G. Can't say enough good things about the Zipfits :) Plus one for use with a Hotgear Bag.
Thank you for this!
ZipFit owner here, They are awesome, except for putting them on and taking off when you're booting up in the parking lot. But it's worth it if you appreciate top performance and clock a lot of hours on the hill.
Makes a person wonder why boot shell design hasn't changed that much over the decades, and why entry and exit has to be such a point of contention in the sport.
4 days in Gara LV’s, never going back to a stock liner. A little silicone spray in the shell makes them slide in much easier.
I think if performance is awesome with double BOA +zipfit it’s worth taking an extra minute to get them on. I’m sold.
Second the endorsement of heated boot bags. Not only makes sliding the Zipfits into the shell easy, it also keeps your feet warmer for longer than anything short of toe warmers or heated socks/footbeds. I have also used waterproof shoe covers over the Zipfits for driving up to the mountain in the Zipfits (and even walking around grocery stores after skiing), so you're ready to slip into the (heated) shells right out of the car.
Next level with the galoshes! Definitely forwarding this to Jeff.
on the matter of boot upgrades, no love for the much cheaper booster strap?
It's the best upgrade that anyone can and everyone should do
I used to be a big Booster strap fan but have largely moved on. I am fully aware that many skiers swear by them and love them and that's great, but I now prefer the stock straps on most boots these days as I've found they're more predictable in transmitting energy consistently. I'd get a World Cup Booster, though!
On and off assist? Spray a bit of silicon to the back of your boots. And warm shells work wonders to slip in to get on
You might also use a slippery tape instead. Or use a sturdier tape as base for the silicone to not have the slippery stuff directly on the shell.
i lace mine up real tight , that way it creates even more void spaces in the shell .
Reading a lot of comments online, it seems a good amount of people had to tinker around with adding/removing/moving around the cork material over the course of time to dial in the fit (though it also sounded like most everyone was quite happy with the results).
If I'm a casual who will probably only get around 10 days at most a season, will I be better off with the stock liner if it's working fine for me? I can still ski hard, it's just my days are limited these days to having kids who are going to be learning for the next few seasons...
If you're fine in the stock liner, given your time on skis, I wouldn't change it up unless you really want to. More of a luxury I'd say.
Interesting that you felt they made the boots stiffer. Would you recommend against switching liners if your boot Flex is already on the stiff side? I'm considering going down to a 120 Flex on my next boot. I'm glad you made a direct comparison to the technica Mach 1 130. That's what I own.
You can usually soften shells, not sure if your T-Drive can have a rivet removed or not. I've found that I can simply leave the power strap and the top buckle a bit looser and then the boot feels perfect in flex because the heel/ankle is still locked in.
I have removed one rivet. I do think it is a touch softer. The consensus online seems to be about 10% reduction in stiffness. Which I think is pretty close@@SkiEssentials
Great video. Thanks for the information, I have been thinking about a pair. Are they any warmer?
Yup! I think so anyway. Little to no pressure on instep and a thinsulate/wool-lined neoprene forefoot.
This is excellent. Why do you suppose Bob can get in and out of the leather version so much easier than Jeff with the neoprene version? I would have expected the opposite. Might it have anything to do with Jeff’s boot being a double boa? Many thanks.
I (Bob) have no idea. I don't have good flexibility so going racer style is very difficult and the leather doesn't like to slide along the plastic--it's very sticky. I can open the lower shell pretty far with my hands when putting them on, it's not any more difficult than a lot of other skiers seem to have with stock liners.
@ thanks much.
Great review, have you guys tried booster straps? Looking to upgrade my boots will more then likely be getting some zipfits but have heard good things about the booster straps as well.
A booster strap is fine. I used to be all about them but have now moved back to liking the stock straps because they're a bit more consistent. The ZipFit liner is a considerably more important component than a Booster Strap.
Used the laces from my Hoka running shoes after the original broke. like it much better :)
This is a nice idea!
Zipfits transformed my fit. Never using anything else.
I’m guessing that these would be the best liners for those of us who wear Vivobarefoot and/or fivefingers on a regular bases? Is there a difference in toe box width between the different models?
I'd imagine the race-oriented liners are narrower but I'm not sure. In general, the toe box on the Gara and the Workhorse are both stretchy enough so that it's not an issue for width.
I think given my smaller calves I should be in the market for the Gara.
Would the gara high volume be better suited for a 100mm last boot shell?
Bootfitter here. Depends how tight a 100mm boot fits on you. The only difference between lv and hv is the amount of cork that they have. If the 100mm boot is a tight performance fit get the gara LV. Adding cork to the zip fit is easier than taking it out so if the lv is loose you can always add more cork.
This is a great question, and we'll defer to professional boot fitters and ZipFit experts for the proper answer.
Oem liners last 150 days at most! There are skiers (Ski Patrollers for example) that have 700 plus days and still working . The cork does not really pack out and you can always add or subtract cork. In the long run…it may be cheaper to pay for ZipFits
Yes. Bob and Jeff talk about the cost of ZipFits having to be added to the cost of a new pair of boots. But in some cases ZipFits can be purchased to replace existing packed-out liners, in which cases paying for ZipFit liners is an alternative to paying for new boots. And as you say, it will probably be necessary to replace the ZipFit liners less often than shells.
This raises the question of whether shells should be sold separately from liners by the boot manufacturers. I recall an Atomic employee explaining in a Blister podcast that selling shells separately would be difficult for the boot manufacturers to manage logistically and there wouldn't be much demand. But I notice that they do sell liners separately. As an alternative one can buy new boots and sell the stock liners.
Conclusion: Give feedback = Give Feet Back. Got it!
Can you please make another video about how different ZipFits, Feet, Boots are best matched.
This isn't really in our realm of expertise. We're only two months into the process and have really only paired our feet with one liner and maybe two or three different shells. There seems to be a whole world of information out there that you can access regarding these matches, but I don't think we're equipped to make that video.
What about compared to a sure-footed injected liner?
Not sure! I feel that any foam-injected liner is going to have a similar end result when it comes to performance. The neoprene forefoot of the Zip, on the other hand, may not be a Surefoot thing.
My next set of boots will have these liners installed immediately. I'm already saving the pennies for a full custom boot fit.
The website says the workhorse is good for 150 days, not 500. Regardless, great review. I have been wondering about how a perfect fit liner might bring me to the next level.
The workhorse will last way more than 500 days. Trust me.
They’re made to be worn 150 days a season, season after season. Not 150 days total.
I ski on RS130 with a Surefoot liner. Still get some heal lift. Zip fit may improve this?
Depends if your RS 130 is the right size or not. My general impression is that the Zip will help hold the heel in the liner, but if the shell is too big you may have to add cork.
Jeff-can’t you put liner in boot then snug laces then boa? Thanks
The laces are WAY easier to do outside the shell. There's a lot going on with two cables and laces.
Hi, I recently watched the first impressions video with the Rossignol sender 100 and was hoping to get your thoughts on them, I currently have the sender 110s and love them but was looking at a more versatile ski when there’s not fresh snow, I love the 110s and how stiff they are with the titanal underfoot and type air tip keeping the tip and tail playful. Is the 100 as stiff? I heard there was no metal in them so I’m not sure if they will be stiff enough for my liking as i like being able to go really really fast and not have my skis flopping around. Thank you
It's the same basic dimensions, just pared down. Also yes, not the same build, but it felt pretty stiff, just not as damp or stable. With the extra width in the 110, you kind of need extra stuff in the construction to make it stand up to more rigorous use. It didn't feel like a narrower version of the 110, it felt like a more park-oriented ski to me.
I use gara lv with my nordica pro machine 95 flex lv and i am super happy. I tried to put the zipfit in a new boot that i want to buy , which is 2026 k2 cortex 105 lv dual boa, and it is almost impossible to get in. Is it a problem of boa or k2 specifically? I wear first the liners and then get in the shell. Can you make a video of zipfits and getting in dual boa boots?
Well, we did include Jeff getting into his Dual BOA boot in this video! But yes, I do think it's a bit of a BOA thing, especially since I (Bob) haven't felt that it's easier to get into a lower BOA boot at any rate even with the stock liner. I just don't feel that the lower shell opens far enough even if there's slack on the cable. The going theory is that heated boot bags and boot horns work magic getting into any boot, Dual BOA included.
Men’s size 14. Any chance they have some of these that can work for me?
Looks like they go up to a 31.5 in mondo which is about a 13.5, wo there's hope!
I would avoid using a microwave on these. My friend severely cosmetically damaged his Zipfits in his microwave reheating them for different shells. They are still functional, but scorched in several places on one liner. Far safer to use a convection oven IF the temperature can be kept low enough. My convection oven only goes down to 180 F, which I feel is too hot. You only need to get the cork warm to remold, so 135-140 F is sufficient. My "poor man" solution was to get a small cardboard moving box, punch a hole in it the size of a hair dryer or heat gun nozzle, an oven thermometer (the kind with a sharp metal rod you stick into meat). I put the liner in the box, close the top, put the heat gun in the hole, keep it on the LOWEST setting needed to get the internal box temperature at a consistent 140 F, and stick the oven thermometer right through the box to monitor it. I heat the liner at 140 F for 15 to 20 minutes to make sure it is heated evenly inside and out. Perfect results with NO possibility of damaging the liner due to overheating it! You can also remold these liners simply by skiing them in the new shells, but this takes much longer to move the cork around an can be somewhat uncomfortable in the process. I have also be told by other friends that putting the Zipfits a heated boot bag also works great. In any event, please avoid too much heat or you may destroy these liners!
Hello gents. Will a Gara HV fit into a Pro Machine 130 size 29.5?
I know you can add more cork to the LV but I'm scared it won't be enough. My boot fitter was amazed how much he added to the stock liners and I still have the buckles clamped to the max.
Thank you.
This is a situation where you want your foot, the boot, and hopefully the liner in a boot shop with someone who knows what they're doing. ZipFit also seems to have good service to help answer these questions.
@SkiEssentials thank you for your prompt reply. I did call zip fit and they think it will fit, thought you might have the two models in question. None of my local ski shops carry zips unfortunately.
As always, great videos. Thanks again.
Bob, do you use the laces and velcro strap on the Workhorse, just the laces or neither?
Advice from someone who fits zip fits regularly, use the liner as intended. Don’t go ripping the powerstrap or the laces off as quick as these guys did. Also putting it on correctly is essential. If you can’t or don’t want to World Cup into your boot don’t buy a zip fit. You are ruining the liner if you don’t and you won’t get the best fit.
Currently I use neither in the Workhorse and it works great. For any re-molding that I do, I lace it up and then go into the shell.
Ever try out Sidas CRT liner?
Not yet!
Thanks guys. So you think one could go down a flex in the boot since liners are stiff and lockin fitting? Thanks
I would not, I don't find the liners exceptionally still. I had intuitions that were stiffer.
I wouldn't go about it that way even though I do think the Zip stiffens the overall feel. Especially since the flex ratings of boots are not similar and sometimes the difference between a 120 and a 130 is the liner, not the plastic in the shell.
I’m going to buy a garbage bag for a jacket for these badass liners😂
Yes! You're getting it now!
Zipfit makes a boot horn to solve the sliding in issue
The boot horn and heated boot bags are the overwhelmingly favorite solutions!
How would you compare this to a Mimic professional liner? You should get very good heal lock with the foam and they are less costly.
I had the Atomic mimic liner, packed out in 45 days. I'm on my 2nd season, 70ish days in ZF's with minimal packing, remedied by adding more cork.
Probably similar end results, especially with this foam injection liner. The thing about the ZipFit is the ease of use and if the Mimic doesn't have a soft and supple forefoot zone, then there's that.
Any thoughts on how these compare to Surefoot liners?
I'd imagine the end result in terms of heel and ankle hold will be similar. The forefoot fit and ease of use of the Zips are likely an upgrade over the Surefoot liners.
Speaking of Tecnica and stock liners in general. I have the Cochise 130 from a few seasons ago. The liner is fantastic, but it has packed out. The shell is still great though. I am on my 4th season with these, how long do stock liners last? I do 20-40 days each season, is my liner technically shot?
Yeah safe bet that your liner is either fully packed out or very close to it skiing 20-40 days/season. You’ll be able to feel it as well, for example if you notice your heel starting to lift/move or other areas of slop. Most stock liners can last anywhere from 60-100 days depending on how aggressive you are. As a bootfitter, once that liners packed out theres no solution. I can always make a boot bigger but never smaller. If you have a lot of slop you can try jbars/heel locks/foam in other areas to compensate and maybe get you through the rest of the season
Liners last 1-2 seasons your liners are almost definitely shot at this point.
I packed out my stock liner in 70 days of solid skiing, bought a zipfit after doing some research and have 60 days in them now. I can suggest them 100%. They will last you 1000 days if you take care of them, some have done even more
Thanks guys. What do you think: ZipFits or Surefoots?
Zip fits for the win! Surefoot liners still pack out.
Does the workhorse work with snowboard boots?
I don't know. My guess is that it's just too much material to go into a snowboard boot shell but I could be wrong.
Fellas, the answer to getting the boots on in the lot with zip fits is to use a heated boot bag.
This seems to be the consensus solution!
They're not cheap, but they will last a decade of serious use which is crazy.
Zip fit vs atomic hawx professional liner?
I'd imagine the end result of the foam-injected Atomic is similar in terms of performance and heel/ankle lock, but forefoot fit may be a different animal altogether.
@SkiEssentials I got the last year that atomic had the professional liner in the boot from factory. The customization of the tongue is nice.
I'm still trying to figure out if lacing the liner up is worth it the hassle when putting boots on in the car.
Any thoughts on the intuition style quick laces and if you can use on any liner. It would be sweet to do that without taking the liner out of the boot.
A ski boot horn makes world cupping MUCH easier!
That's what we've been hearing!
Does anyone have experience with zipfits in a cabrio style boot?
Will be just as good performance wise as it would be in a 4 buckle 2 piece boot. Honestly awesome in a cabrio because putting it on first and then stepping into the shell is so much easier with the folding tongue.