some people play with more dexterity and precision than Page. Some can play much faster . But none can express human emotion with a guitar like Page . He can create moods and drama like nobody else. His music often sounds like a score in a dramatic film more than a rock song. I love a LOT of guitarists but nobody moves me like Jimmy Page can. He's a genius.
That was a really great way to say what Jimmy's playing has been to people. The way he played rock guitar has become ubiquitous among guitarists. As usual Steve hit the nail on the head.
I bumped into Jimmy a few years ago, near Earl's Court. I haven't been able to listen to Led Zep ever since, because it reminds me of my (immensely embarrassing) overblown starstruck reaction. Thankfully he was very kind about it, anyway.
YummyBananaFish I said Steve PPPPPPErry in front of the short guy, he wasn't very good nor bad. I still listened to Journey but mostly because of guitar and drums.
Steve Vai is a gentleman, and truly a class act. I wish my command of the English language was strong enough to describe him as eloquently as he's described Dr. Page.
In the guitar world, nobody is as eloquent and generous in spirit as Steve Vai. Steve's words are epic, and they obviously meant a lot to Jimmy Page! Steve's tribute makes me proud to own a guitar. Got to learn how to play it now... :)
That Steve Vai....what a nice little boy! I remember, like it was yesterday, hearing Blue Powder for the first time. It was an insert in Guitar Player Magazine, had to be 1983, I think. As a guitar player, that one track changed everything for me. Of course, it would be so much cooler to be able to say that if I had done something in the industry. :) Yo!
I have played since 12 years old and not till 22 started my own stuff if u practice nonstop everyone else you will hate yourself you lose yourself and find yourself music is a soul expression I can play guitar bass drums and sing the purest form of love is self expression through music .funk,rock,jazz whatever get u high like bob marley,funkadelic etc .just make sure it grooves its all good
There are those who can really show you what they can do with a guitar and then... there are those who can show you they can do more with a guitar than most others combined!!! Enough said!!! (keyboardist Fingers Felix)
to joe carl- as the judge ruled-stairway was zeppelins all the way- look and see what joey ramone said- page invented punk with communication breakdown,listen to achilles last stand- then listen to megadeath-pls-leave us along and go back and listen to the monkees.
to joel carli- jimmy did what beck and Clapton did, he expanded on the blues, not copied it. So your going to tell me all these songs he made famous, everyone heard of before he did them? I'm sure you use to listen to jesus make my dyin bed before he wrote nobody's fault but mine. Then after that you remember listening to tarus by spirt before he wrote stairway- get a life.
Sounded great before until that royal performance, without the drums, it just lost it. But those earlier recordings well they are like classical music now, epics. Sign posts on the highway of music history.
That's actually a really cool way to put it, but I'm not a big fan of Jimmy Page as a person, honestly (mostly because of the tremendous shameless plagiarism Zeppelin has done). Meh, maybe he's an otherwise wonderful person - I've never met him and I try not to be judgmental of others. It is true though that Page inspired many guitar players, perhaps more than most others in history.
Shameless plagiarism is one way to put it, but if you listen to blues or electric blues it's all based on classics. Someone recorded the song but usually didn't write it, having its roots way before electric guitar or recordings. Not every blues song is a copy of a copy of a copy of various slave spirituals or the like but most of blues and rock songs have those roots and one blues guy taking the basic idea of a song from another and maybe changing a couple lines or the key wasn't theft, it was just the way it went. Once recordings happened people assume the person who recorded it earliest wrote it and deserves all the credit but these classic blues songs can't really be pinpointed to a single person since its creation Howlin' Wolf's Evil was written by Willie Dixon, but Wolf recorded it and made it popular, then Pat Travers came, like Zeppelin, and instead of just playing the chords he put a riff to it, upped the BPMs, put a solo over it and had Carmine Appice kick the drums into high gear... In the blues world taking a standard and doing your own thing with it is kind of par for the course and Zeppelin were the classic "white British guys taking black blues music and making it their own," they were just doing what everyone else did at the time. Because making it their own transcended "blues" and really kicked the popular phenomenon of "rock" and "metal" which didn't really have the same shared view on standards wasn't their fault, they were just doing what the guys in the Delta blues scene were doing for generations
Of course, I always made it a joke that "nobody ever wrote all the jazz standards, they just kind of exist" -- same thing can be said for blues. I have no problem with covering artists, but like I said (and you acknowledged), Zeppelin was blatant and shameless plagiarism a large part of the time. Heck, even using the same ideas and themes is okay to me, as long as you make them your own, in your own unique way. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of Zep's work, but when you read about how they ripped off the music and/or the words to a lot of their songs such as Stairway to Heaven or Dazed and Confused without as much as even mentioning the original authors, it kind of really sucks of them to revel in fame and fortune. Dazed was pretty much exactly a cover, without the credit.
Joel Carli I think the hype of Zep's plagiarism is overstated because of their success. Of the 100+ recorded songs, maybe 4-6 can be traced directly back to someone else. So, how about The Perdie shuffle, Bonham's Fool In The Rain, Pocorro's Rosanna...all the same except for very subtle slight differences. Heck, Coldplay blatantly lifted a Satriani melody for one of their songs. Back in the day, everyone took from everyone. It's almost as simple as saying "He played an open G and so did you...so, you're a hack." Eddie's tapping? Everyone does it and nobody gives him credit. How about Ike Turner arguably recording the first distorted guitar in 1951 with Rocket 88. Did everyone who recorded distorted guitar rip him off? No. Back in the day, it's the way it was done. Believe me, you could find 100s, maybe 1,000s of instances of artists stealing from each other. Yo!
Joel Carli "Your own unique way" that is one question you have to look at in perspective. You go to any point in Musical History you will find mostly everything has been played/done and all the good stuff has been written. It is completely impossible to write just an entire album, without your own influences being shown. it's all about just putting your own kinda twist on it, as you said "Your own unique way" but you'll still have the so called critics like yourself still going "It's just a rip off" no matter what, At the end of the day, everything pretty much comes back to the blues. It's influence, listen to anyone, there has to be influence there for them to know that this is how they want their song to sound. We all get fed up of listening to just 1 genre for ages, because it ends up all sounding very similar, that's because that genre has a certain sound, the phrasing, the harmonic content of it. But it's still all different. If a band play a song of the original artist as a cover exactly as it is, that can be called plagarism, imagine how many bands could sue them? If they change it and make it their own, here's the difference It's called an "Arrangement" Which every band is entitled to doing, Look at Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson.
joesatriani1200rulez The point is, I don't mind a composer taking heavy influence from other people or even going as far as covering them, provided they don't live in said composer's shadow. Franz Liszt famously made piano arrangements of countless Bach pieces, but he didn't claim that those compositions belonged to him. Like I said, I enjoy Zeppelin (my favorite album of theirs is Physical Graffiti), but I think it sucks how few people remember Spirit for essentially writing the famed Stairway intro first. Dazed and Confused was pretty much entirely taken as it is from the original author (who once opened for Zep). (Note -- I mentioned Stairway and Dazed in my replies because they're the most notable as Zeppelin personally knew both original authors before writing them) When it comes to selling covers (through albums and what not), most artists legally need to pay royalties to the original authors, which is why most people don't sue. In fact, covering someone's piece can constitute free publicity for that someone. I don't think Page or the rest of Led Zeppelin are necessarily, inherently "bad" people (nobody is perfect), and even if they were, they did make good music that was *theirs*. If people stopped listening to Wagner because of his alleged fervent antisemitism, I think it would be a shame. Maybe "tremendous" was a bad word choice in my original post, I apologize. I don't respect the idea that Zeppelin did this ripping off (specifically without recognizing the original artists) any more than I respect the idea of Wagner being racist, but they have something to at least somewhat compensate for it, and that is enjoyable music, and by extension, entire generations of inspired musicians, writers, artists, and fascist dictators (actually, forget that last one). There's also a difference between using a formula everyone uses (blues, rondo form, jazz turnaround, etc) and using the same lyrics, music and structure as an already existing piece of work. People recognize the Duke Ellington ending-a-tune riff, but most jazz enthusiasts know who Ellington is. All in all, maybe you're right. I try to be objective when looking at a person. Like I said in the original post, Jimmy Page may be a saint if you disregard the plagiarism -- I don't know. The band may have not intended to rip people off either -- I myself accidentally ripped off High Wire by Badlands after hearing it once a long time ago (and now I have discontinued playing my rip-off as-is: I rewrote it).
some people play with more dexterity and precision than Page. Some can play much faster . But none can express human emotion with a guitar like Page . He can create moods and drama like nobody else. His music often sounds like a score in a dramatic film more than a rock song. I love a LOT of guitarists but nobody moves me like Jimmy Page can. He's a genius.
Great comment. It is all about Drama. Then technique. Then the instrument.
That was a really great way to say what Jimmy's playing has been to people. The way he played rock guitar has become ubiquitous among guitarists. As usual Steve hit the nail on the head.
Quite a statement coming from one of the best to ever pick up a guitar (even though I prefer Page to Vai).
I bumped into Jimmy a few years ago, near Earl's Court. I haven't been able to listen to Led Zep ever since, because it reminds me of my (immensely embarrassing) overblown starstruck reaction. Thankfully he was very kind about it, anyway.
Been there done that (with someone else) we'll get over it together, cheers mate!
YummyBananaFish I said Steve PPPPPPErry in front of the short guy, he wasn't very good nor bad. I still listened to Journey but mostly because of guitar and drums.
Steve Vai is a gentleman, and truly a class act. I wish my command of the English language was strong enough to describe him as eloquently as he's described Dr. Page.
Jimmy took up where Les Paul left off he was and still is innovative in his music and wrote a whole new chapter in music production.
Game recognize game.
In the guitar world, nobody is as eloquent and generous in spirit as Steve Vai. Steve's words are epic, and they obviously meant a lot to Jimmy Page!
Steve's tribute makes me proud to own a guitar. Got to learn how to play it now... :)
That Steve Vai....what a nice little boy!
I remember, like it was yesterday, hearing Blue Powder for the first time. It was an insert in Guitar Player Magazine, had to be 1983, I think. As a guitar player, that one track changed everything for me. Of course, it would be so much cooler to be able to say that if I had done something in the industry. :)
Yo!
Classy and profoundly true Mr. Vai.
Wow, he even LOOKS like a wizard now! :D
Awesome Steve !!!
I have played since 12 years old and not till 22 started my own stuff if u practice nonstop everyone else you will hate yourself you lose yourself and find yourself music is a soul expression I can play guitar bass drums and sing the purest form of love is self expression through music .funk,rock,jazz whatever get u high like bob marley,funkadelic etc .just make sure it grooves its all good
What a legend!
Absolutely, Hallelujah Cheers!!!
Ha!! Steve made Jimmy blush! :-)
That's quite awesome
It's because Page is a sonic wizard
awesome!
CONGRATULATIONS !!!
what a place to go...
You are the best
I enjoyed this
WOW!
There are those who can really show you what they can do with a guitar and then... there are those who can show you they can do more with a guitar than most others combined!!! Enough said!!! (keyboardist Fingers Felix)
nice
Jimmy is cool
*Agreed Wait is this Steve Vai Himself or one of his fans or assistants? Surely VaiMan is to busy diddling notes out of evo :))*
I don't care for his playing, but it's very tue.
Steve Vai > all
to joe carl- as the judge ruled-stairway was zeppelins all the way- look and see what joey ramone said- page invented punk with communication breakdown,listen to achilles last stand- then listen to megadeath-pls-leave us along and go back and listen to the monkees.
but of course
to joel carli- jimmy did what beck and Clapton did, he expanded on the blues, not copied it. So your going to tell me all these songs he made famous, everyone heard of before he did them? I'm sure you use to listen to jesus make my dyin bed before he wrote nobody's fault but mine. Then after that you remember listening to tarus by spirt before he wrote stairway- get a life.
Sounded great before until that royal performance, without the drums, it just lost it. But those earlier recordings well they are like classical music now, epics. Sign posts on the highway of music history.
Page wrote classics and Vai even more so , music sweet music
That's actually a really cool way to put it, but I'm not a big fan of Jimmy Page as a person, honestly (mostly because of the tremendous shameless plagiarism Zeppelin has done).
Meh, maybe he's an otherwise wonderful person - I've never met him and I try not to be judgmental of others. It is true though that Page inspired many guitar players, perhaps more than most others in history.
Shameless plagiarism is one way to put it, but if you listen to blues or electric blues it's all based on classics. Someone recorded the song but usually didn't write it, having its roots way before electric guitar or recordings. Not every blues song is a copy of a copy of a copy of various slave spirituals or the like but most of blues and rock songs have those roots and one blues guy taking the basic idea of a song from another and maybe changing a couple lines or the key wasn't theft, it was just the way it went. Once recordings happened people assume the person who recorded it earliest wrote it and deserves all the credit but these classic blues songs can't really be pinpointed to a single person since its creation
Howlin' Wolf's Evil was written by Willie Dixon, but Wolf recorded it and made it popular, then Pat Travers came, like Zeppelin, and instead of just playing the chords he put a riff to it, upped the BPMs, put a solo over it and had Carmine Appice kick the drums into high gear... In the blues world taking a standard and doing your own thing with it is kind of par for the course and Zeppelin were the classic "white British guys taking black blues music and making it their own," they were just doing what everyone else did at the time. Because making it their own transcended "blues" and really kicked the popular phenomenon of "rock" and "metal" which didn't really have the same shared view on standards wasn't their fault, they were just doing what the guys in the Delta blues scene were doing for generations
Of course, I always made it a joke that "nobody ever wrote all the jazz standards, they just kind of exist" -- same thing can be said for blues. I have no problem with covering artists, but like I said (and you acknowledged), Zeppelin was blatant and shameless plagiarism a large part of the time. Heck, even using the same ideas and themes is okay to me, as long as you make them your own, in your own unique way.
Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of Zep's work, but when you read about how they ripped off the music and/or the words to a lot of their songs such as Stairway to Heaven or Dazed and Confused without as much as even mentioning the original authors, it kind of really sucks of them to revel in fame and fortune. Dazed was pretty much exactly a cover, without the credit.
Joel Carli I think the hype of Zep's plagiarism is overstated because of their success. Of the 100+ recorded songs, maybe 4-6 can be traced directly back to someone else. So, how about The Perdie shuffle, Bonham's Fool In The Rain, Pocorro's Rosanna...all the same except for very subtle slight differences. Heck, Coldplay blatantly lifted a Satriani melody for one of their songs. Back in the day, everyone took from everyone. It's almost as simple as saying "He played an open G and so did you...so, you're a hack." Eddie's tapping? Everyone does it and nobody gives him credit. How about Ike Turner arguably recording the first distorted guitar in 1951 with Rocket 88. Did everyone who recorded distorted guitar rip him off? No. Back in the day, it's the way it was done. Believe me, you could find 100s, maybe 1,000s of instances of artists stealing from each other.
Yo!
Joel Carli "Your own unique way" that is one question you have to look at in perspective. You go to any point in Musical History you will find mostly everything has been played/done and all the good stuff has been written. It is completely impossible to write just an entire album, without your own influences being shown.
it's all about just putting your own kinda twist on it, as you said "Your own unique way" but you'll still have the so called critics like yourself still going "It's just a rip off" no matter what, At the end of the day, everything pretty much comes back to the blues. It's influence, listen to anyone, there has to be influence there for them to know that this is how they want their song to sound. We all get fed up of listening to just 1 genre for ages, because it ends up all sounding very similar, that's because that genre has a certain sound, the phrasing, the harmonic content of it. But it's still all different. If a band play a song of the original artist as a cover exactly as it is, that can be called plagarism, imagine how many bands could sue them? If they change it and make it their own, here's the difference It's called an "Arrangement" Which every band is entitled to doing, Look at Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson.
joesatriani1200rulez The point is, I don't mind a composer taking heavy influence from other people or even going as far as covering them, provided they don't live in said composer's shadow. Franz Liszt famously made piano arrangements of countless Bach pieces, but he didn't claim that those compositions belonged to him. Like I said, I enjoy Zeppelin (my favorite album of theirs is Physical Graffiti), but I think it sucks how few people remember Spirit for essentially writing the famed Stairway intro first. Dazed and Confused was pretty much entirely taken as it is from the original author (who once opened for Zep).
(Note -- I mentioned Stairway and Dazed in my replies because they're the most notable as Zeppelin personally knew both original authors before writing them)
When it comes to selling covers (through albums and what not), most artists legally need to pay royalties to the original authors, which is why most people don't sue. In fact, covering someone's piece can constitute free publicity for that someone.
I don't think Page or the rest of Led Zeppelin are necessarily, inherently "bad" people (nobody is perfect), and even if they were, they did make good music that was *theirs*. If people stopped listening to Wagner because of his alleged fervent antisemitism, I think it would be a shame. Maybe "tremendous" was a bad word choice in my original post, I apologize. I don't respect the idea that Zeppelin did this ripping off (specifically without recognizing the original artists) any more than I respect the idea of Wagner being racist, but they have something to at least somewhat compensate for it, and that is enjoyable music, and by extension, entire generations of inspired musicians, writers, artists, and fascist dictators (actually, forget that last one).
There's also a difference between using a formula everyone uses (blues, rondo form, jazz turnaround, etc) and using the same lyrics, music and structure as an already existing piece of work. People recognize the Duke Ellington ending-a-tune riff, but most jazz enthusiasts know who Ellington is.
All in all, maybe you're right. I try to be objective when looking at a person. Like I said in the original post, Jimmy Page may be a saint if you disregard the plagiarism -- I don't know. The band may have not intended to rip people off either -- I myself accidentally ripped off High Wire by Badlands after hearing it once a long time ago (and now I have discontinued playing my rip-off as-is: I rewrote it).
and dont forget duran duran saying ramble on shape most of the 80's songs -pls- get a life
And Jimi Hendrix took that space and filled it up, so the only thing left was crude noise.