False tones are often louder and more reliable than those "true" tones available on multi-valved tubas. Often called "privileged tones", Arnold Jacobs called them his "under-privileged tones"! Another great video Sam! I always enjoy your work.
That’s really interesting! I find them to have a more “punchy” sound but not necessarily a louder one than valved true tones. Fun story though! Thanks as always for your comment, Paul!
It’s so cool that you mentioned Doglinha Vieira - I’ve been following his channel for years. In addition to him, though, there are many other tubists in his circle (when I say that, I mean in Brazil and playing his style of music) who use this exact technique, such as Tiago Daniel and Marcelo Troni. I myself have used false tones on a Bb euphonium and a Bb contrabass bugle (“contra”) somewhat successfully. I will say that it didn’t work very well on upright, 3 and 4/4 Bb tubas, for whatever reason.
Thanks for the references! I’ve absolutely never been able to get a false tone to speak on euphonium, so it’s surprising to me that you’ve done them. For me it’s way too easy to just blip down to the pedal Bb by accident.
Thanks for this informative video! I own two BBb tubas--a Conn 20J and an Olds 0-99. I can get the false tones down to about concert C on the Conn reasonably well, but it is a bit harder on the Olds. I've never been able to get pedal tones on either instrument, so I want to learn how. Although I had played woodwinds and strings for many years, I just took up brass at age 68 (3 years ago, starting with trombone--on which I can get some good pedal tones). One advantage to these 3-valve BBb tubas is that they can be bought for $700 off eBay--yes, the Conn weighs 20% of my own weight (but it's looks like "the boss" among other tubas, and has a great sound), but the Olds is very maneuverable, and I like its forward valves (one of the main reasons I bought it). One question I have--is the mouthpiece for an Eb tuba different (i.e., of smaller diameter) than that for a BBb tuba?
Thank you for your comment, Bob! Those are definitely two fun tubas. Despite register limitations due to only having three valves, those 20J tanks are pretty formidable. I, too, prefer forward-facing valves over upright ones in the way the instrument responds. Pedal tones are just annoying on BBb tuba. I'm still working out how to play them myself. My general method for all low brass is to position my lower lip on/near the inner rim and let my upper lip essentially do all of the vibrating. Sometimes the inverse works better on tuba wherein the player's top lip is pinned down by the rim and the bottom lip produces a very slow vibration. Also, the mouthpiece on the Eb tuba in this video is unfortunately very small, but there's nothing stating you necessarily have to use a smaller-diameter mouthpiece on Eb/F than BBb/CC. My thinking is an ideal bass tuba mouthpiece may have a slightly smaller diameter, but not terribly so--maybe more of a difference in cup depth/shape, throat, and backbore. Have a look at the Yamaha Roger Bobo 'Solo' and 'Symphonic' mouthpieces. The former is geared towards getting a nice, clear sound on F tuba, but isn't much smaller than the latter. I've actually used a toilet-bowl PT-88 on a St. Petersburg Eb tuba when playing in a quintet just to help the clarity of the lower register and to darken my sound relative to the group (we had a euphonium in place of a trombone).
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thanks, Samuel, for getting back to me. You've given me some great suggestions. The main reason I asked about the Eb mouthpiece is that I find it more difficult to blow the Olds horn than the Conn, but I've found that using a trombone mouthpiece (and a bass trombone mouthpiece I obtained recently, mostly in anticipation of receiving a Yamaha YBL-321 within a few weeks) works quite well with both tubas although the fit isn't perfect. Therefore, I was wondering whether an Eb mouthpiece would be easier blowing and enable higher notes on the Olds--playing a bit more like an Eb horn--and then the Conn would be the better choice when I want to "create earthquakes". Because I have so many other brass instruments, I can essentially choose one for whatever range I want to play. Interestingly enough, I have found that on my Conn 14-C alto horn (in F--I haven't installed the additional tubing), I can get the pedal tones easily enough, but then can even get some notes still an octave lower--that is, the lowest F on the piano (or the "normal" low F on the BBb tuba) and a few notes below that, although they are weak. Of course I can get that same F as a pedal tone on the trombones and baritone--but not on a French horn because the mouthpiece is too small for the latter.
The Yamaha white fiberglass Sousas my high school used had surprisingly in tune and poppy false tones. I wonder what the physics behind them is. Edit: I didn't think anyone else knew who Doglinha Vieira was, glad he's getting some recognition. He's my Eb tuba idol right now!!
Those false tones do seem to be particularly prevalent on sousaphones, and yes, I really do wonder how on earth physics can explain a random, non-existent false harmonic that’s a fourth above the pedal harmonic!
This is true, but bass tubas in Eb and F are actually really common for solo literature and brass band playing. Some people prefer them over CC in brass quintets too. Also, I think the nomenclature of EEb would imply a sub-bass or sub-contrabass tuba pitched an octave below and Eb like the one in this video or a fifth below a standard BBb. Just what I’ve seen in my time.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Yeah they are much easier to play than the clumsy BBb Contrabass 😂😂😂😂! The double nomenclature means its natural fundamental pitch below the Bass clef staff. Only instruments with a Contra fundamental pitch between Bb1 and F1 will have a double nomenclature. Contra separated from another word with a dash means one octave below like Contra-Alto. Contra combined with another word to form one word just means below, like the vocal female voice reference Contralto (anything below Alto) and Contrabass (below Bass). They can either be Contra-Alto (one octave below Alto, which is also Bass) and Contrabass (just below Bass). Triple nomenclature is only for instruments pitched below Contrabass and maybe accompanied by another prefix Octo which means one octave below. Such as FFF SubContrabass (below Contrabass) Tuba or EEEb Octo Contra-Alto Clarinet (one octave below Contra-Alto). It took me a long time to understand that weird ancient archaic nomenclature that didn't make sense to me. I understand it fully now. 🤣
Man, your pedal tones are really clean. Granted I didn't pursue music past high school, but pedals were never anything other than splatters back then!
Thank you! I will say that the small bore makes the pedals pop out nicely, even if its regular low register sucks.
False tones are often louder and more reliable than those "true" tones available on multi-valved tubas. Often called "privileged tones", Arnold Jacobs called them his "under-privileged tones"! Another great video Sam! I always enjoy your work.
That’s really interesting! I find them to have a more “punchy” sound but not necessarily a louder one than valved true tones. Fun story though! Thanks as always for your comment, Paul!
Nice! I do the same thing with my straight tenor!
I’ve had to do that on a straight tenor as well!
It’s so cool that you mentioned Doglinha Vieira - I’ve been following his channel for years. In addition to him, though, there are many other tubists in his circle (when I say that, I mean in Brazil and playing his style of music) who use this exact technique, such as Tiago Daniel and Marcelo Troni.
I myself have used false tones on a Bb euphonium and a Bb contrabass bugle (“contra”) somewhat successfully. I will say that it didn’t work very well on upright, 3 and 4/4 Bb tubas, for whatever reason.
Thanks for the references! I’ve absolutely never been able to get a false tone to speak on euphonium, so it’s surprising to me that you’ve done them. For me it’s way too easy to just blip down to the pedal Bb by accident.
Thanks for this informative video! I own two BBb tubas--a Conn 20J and an Olds 0-99. I can get the false tones down to about concert C on the Conn reasonably well, but it is a bit harder on the Olds. I've never been able to get pedal tones on either instrument, so I want to learn how. Although I had played woodwinds and strings for many years, I just took up brass at age 68 (3 years ago, starting with trombone--on which I can get some good pedal tones). One advantage to these 3-valve BBb tubas is that they can be bought for $700 off eBay--yes, the Conn weighs 20% of my own weight (but it's looks like "the boss" among other tubas, and has a great sound), but the Olds is very maneuverable, and I like its forward valves (one of the main reasons I bought it). One question I have--is the mouthpiece for an Eb tuba different (i.e., of smaller diameter) than that for a BBb tuba?
Thank you for your comment, Bob! Those are definitely two fun tubas. Despite register limitations due to only having three valves, those 20J tanks are pretty formidable. I, too, prefer forward-facing valves over upright ones in the way the instrument responds.
Pedal tones are just annoying on BBb tuba. I'm still working out how to play them myself. My general method for all low brass is to position my lower lip on/near the inner rim and let my upper lip essentially do all of the vibrating. Sometimes the inverse works better on tuba wherein the player's top lip is pinned down by the rim and the bottom lip produces a very slow vibration.
Also, the mouthpiece on the Eb tuba in this video is unfortunately very small, but there's nothing stating you necessarily have to use a smaller-diameter mouthpiece on Eb/F than BBb/CC. My thinking is an ideal bass tuba mouthpiece may have a slightly smaller diameter, but not terribly so--maybe more of a difference in cup depth/shape, throat, and backbore. Have a look at the Yamaha Roger Bobo 'Solo' and 'Symphonic' mouthpieces. The former is geared towards getting a nice, clear sound on F tuba, but isn't much smaller than the latter. I've actually used a toilet-bowl PT-88 on a St. Petersburg Eb tuba when playing in a quintet just to help the clarity of the lower register and to darken my sound relative to the group (we had a euphonium in place of a trombone).
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thanks, Samuel, for getting back to me. You've given me some great suggestions. The main reason I asked about the Eb mouthpiece is that I find it more difficult to blow the Olds horn than the Conn, but I've found that using a trombone mouthpiece (and a bass trombone mouthpiece I obtained recently, mostly in anticipation of receiving a Yamaha YBL-321 within a few weeks) works quite well with both tubas although the fit isn't perfect. Therefore, I was wondering whether an Eb mouthpiece would be easier blowing and enable higher notes on the Olds--playing a bit more like an Eb horn--and then the Conn would be the better choice when I want to "create earthquakes". Because I have so many other brass instruments, I can essentially choose one for whatever range I want to play.
Interestingly enough, I have found that on my Conn 14-C alto horn (in F--I haven't installed the additional tubing), I can get the pedal tones easily enough, but then can even get some notes still an octave lower--that is, the lowest F on the piano (or the "normal" low F on the BBb tuba) and a few notes below that, although they are weak. Of course I can get that same F as a pedal tone on the trombones and baritone--but not on a French horn because the mouthpiece is too small for the latter.
yo, i play an e flat tuba and i'm gonna have to try this out!
The Yamaha white fiberglass Sousas my high school used had surprisingly in tune and poppy false tones. I wonder what the physics behind them is.
Edit: I didn't think anyone else knew who Doglinha Vieira was, glad he's getting some recognition. He's my Eb tuba idol right now!!
Those false tones do seem to be particularly prevalent on sousaphones, and yes, I really do wonder how on earth physics can explain a random, non-existent false harmonic that’s a fourth above the pedal harmonic!
My colleges tuba is a three valve Olds 99 BBb, the false tones pop right out for some reason.
The Olds is a really solid horn for a 3-valve. I’m not surprised. This tuba just happens to have a remarkably bad lower register.
EEb Bass Tuba is a weird one, an odd ball. Fun thing to note, it's pitched one step lower than FF French Horn 😂
This is true, but bass tubas in Eb and F are actually really common for solo literature and brass band playing. Some people prefer them over CC in brass quintets too. Also, I think the nomenclature of EEb would imply a sub-bass or sub-contrabass tuba pitched an octave below and Eb like the one in this video or a fifth below a standard BBb. Just what I’ve seen in my time.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Yeah they are much easier to play than the clumsy BBb Contrabass 😂😂😂😂! The double nomenclature means its natural fundamental pitch below the Bass clef staff. Only instruments with a Contra fundamental pitch between Bb1 and F1 will have a double nomenclature. Contra separated from another word with a dash means one octave below like Contra-Alto. Contra combined with another word to form one word just means below, like the vocal female voice reference Contralto (anything below Alto) and Contrabass (below Bass). They can either be Contra-Alto (one octave below Alto, which is also Bass) and Contrabass (just below Bass). Triple nomenclature is only for instruments pitched below Contrabass and maybe accompanied by another prefix Octo which means one octave below. Such as FFF SubContrabass (below Contrabass) Tuba or EEEb Octo Contra-Alto Clarinet (one octave below Contra-Alto). It took me a long time to understand that weird ancient archaic nomenclature that didn't make sense to me. I understand it fully now. 🤣
I thought it was a euphonium
To be fair, it’s small even by Eb tuba standards, so I can’t fault you
How about talk about a 4 valve b flat tuba
I reviewed one during Scholastic Brass Month. The Jupiter.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Have you done a 5 valve CC, or 7 valve F tuba?
It’s literally built with a euphonium’s configuration.