I would a 100% agree that Yuumi is a bad design. One big issue with her design is making her defensive stats low so that she is easy to kill, but this drawback is made completely pointless by the fact that she cannot be hit while supporting a champ, and the only way to then do something about her is to kill the champ she is supporting, which she is buffing so that this champ is harder to kill, ... That is bad design.
I would disagree in one aspect. If Zed fails at assassinating you, and that player has played their cards right, chances are they can make it out alive. If talon messes up his assassination, he’ll just die. Either you die, or he dies. Zed doesn’t necessarily abide by that rule, and I think that’s why he’s so frustrating to play against. Like, if you flash away from a zed, and aren’t in kill range, he’ll just R out. If you flash away from a talon or a Rengar, they’ll slowly struggle and run towards a bush/wall. You now have an opportunity to kill Rengar or Talon. You’d be over extended if you went for Zed, plus you have to run around his shadow to avoid getting slowed by his E if you run through it. He’s straight up more slippery. The same reason why Kat is annoying as hell to deal with, although kat has a far less safe laning phase. So yea. I don’t think it’s so much about “kill speed” rather than options.
depending on where a fight goes down, talon is arguably way more mobile, the only way his mobility in the jg area can be fair and balanced is if he has 0 mobility in the middle of the lane, zed only has 2 blinks, talon can jump over every single wall
This. Zed is maybe the only assassin that can fight without commiting/going all in. He throws his combo from midrange and he can then decide from a safe distance to follow up or not, as opposed to someone like talon or rengar who need to be on top of you to do their things
@yeet7521 Well, Leblanc also does, but she is a magic dmg assassin. One could make the argument Fizz fits as well, and yes, he js very slippery, but he can't engage and disengage the same distance. Zed, Leblanc, Yone, Fizz feel unfair because they have "get out of jail free cards".
@@kentuckyfriedchildren5385ive pretty much just accepted that talons going to get away if i try to chase after a teamfight. Hes slippery enough that his E feels easy to predict, like hea near a wall i wonder what hes gonna do. Zed can make movement anywhere and on a enemy with point and click R invuln. Even if i try to punish a zed for burning R or W, i feel like he has a opportunity to get away very very easily if he used only one of those abilities. Though if he did use both, itd be a 1 for 1.
Yep this is why I hate zed. Sure talon can jump walls but that just means you try to avoid fighting him in locations that are good for him. Zed doesn’t have as many limits in that fashion. Sure him crashing a wall with his shadow is safer but in lane phase his shadows are good enough assuming he doesn’t waste them. Talon has much less access to good wall options during lane.
Wait, I think I cracked the code of a frustrating midlane champion. You are facing a champion with a good neutral that has strong all-in potential and escape. They have a trading pattern that's ALWAYS on their terms, and they can leave the trade whenever they want, as long as they don't royally mess it up. They are almost uncatchable without a hard cc, and if your cc isn't a point-and-click - they have a lot of mobility to dodge a skillshot. You always feel like you rely on them making a mistake and getting impatient, rather than making your own play. They snowball extremely hard, but even if you outplayed them and won the lane, you still have to respect them, since they can scale into a menace from a few kills. Which champion was I talking about? Hint - there's more than one right answer!
@DemonerLycan i think the cc part is inaccurate except for maybe kata's blink, every other high mobility champ i can think of has a timer u can abuse(zed R spawns behind u very easy to cc, ahri has a cd between R charges ...etc)
@ottoharing7161 if you are in range for him to ult you without akready using W to gap close you did something wrong, you're not supposed to play inside his R range under any circumstances
I dont know what a neutral is but yes, its the ability to disengage plus the kill potential. Also its really funny to me that no ones thinking about the fact that a champion with a lot of counterplay might be balanced AROUND that fact that they have a lot of counterplay so theyre gonna be disproportionately strong in other aspects. And zeds 3 sec ult does not in fact leave much room for counterplay alone in lane because what are you gonna do? Have 3 more secs for your barrier that no one plays to come back up? Lol
@Aryzo Not trying to defend Zed too much, but the 3 secs allow you to react and do defensive actions such as Zhonya's. Now for how useful it is for your survival is dictated purely by how well you're positioning, but when compared to literally any other Assassin, Zed suffers the most from summoners and items because a Rengar who caught you off guard will actually just instantly punish you by one-shotting, where Zed would actually give you a few seconds to come up with something to save yourself and outplay him. The reason why it's worse for many players is because they think that getting one-shot knowing that you could've done something is worse than getting one-shot knowing you couldn't. A.k.a. it's another showcase of League community being delusional and trying their best to avoid the conclusion of them being bad, they'd rather blame the champ that one-shots you without counterplay. Also the reason why Zed isn't banned as much high elo.
Zed harasses you until he commits to the kill, goes even in lane. Talon 1 shots you or he doesn't. Weak lane. Zed is AD-Akali and vice-versa. Safe lane with snowball element
I'm platinum so maybe this is a low elo thing but zed (as he is currently) feels very weak as long as you space him correctly, i like picking ahri or hwei into him just to farm out of his W range, worst case scenario he hits 1 Q and can never all in
@@rafikzebboudj543 Thats the proper way to play. And those champ picks are actually pretty solid against him. Just play it like any other ranged vs melee lane, the only difference is every 20 seconds you gotta play around his W (which even then is still able to be bullied if youre forcing him to farm with Q off cooldown). Hes doing mediocre in high elo right now. Youre ahead of the curve.
@@rafikzebboudj543 this works until the zed players develop the 3 iq needed to play the champion. then they realize, nullifying orb + hexdrinker + merc treads negates the existance of any mage in this game. oh and they figure out that they actually have 925 range ( 275 higher than caitlyn range) to cs with safely.
@einjharrelraca if he cs woth W he has no kill pressure so just perma push and roam and u win lane. Zed is not hard to counter unless you play a no mobility no cc low waveclear champ into him and if that's the case idk what to tell u learn to draft for your matchups
@@rafikzebboudj543 925 is his q range WITHOUT w my dude. he has a long range, short cooldown, no cost tool to farm with from longer range than ahri can farm with her q bro. AND its aoe so it can counteract any attempts to shove. and zed plays those matchups as an artillery mage what are you talking about? XD every single thing you mentioned in your 3 comments replying to me is "hope the zed fucks up and loses to the shopkeeper". and no, play only champions with point and click hard cc is not counterplay either. when we TRIED THAT riot gutted every control mage in this game so far into the dirt, that playing any of them was a reportable offence and people got banned for it in korea.
If you see this August: Like you say, it's mostly Zeds popularity. Heimerdinger Malzahar and Shaco are by far my most hated champs to play against but I don't ban them unless their winrate is currently high because they don't have a big playerbase in my elo. If I ban Zed over Talon that's PURELY because I am 20x more likely to face a Zed OTP than to face a Talon OTP, it's really more about the perceived value of the ban.
@@TheJerbolbut he didn't say that? He said that they watch data on every region to see the character performance across the board before making any changes it necessary.
It's crazy that he talks about evelynn's old stealth as if it was balanced because pinkwards exist... it was the ONLY champ in the game which forced you to pay a 75 gold tax every now and then to be able to have a chance to play normally...
Zeds frustrating because he’s effectively a long range mage with the mobility of a Leblanc. His w zones you from the entire wave or team fight for its duration all while being off your screen and still a lethal threat to your carries. He has ridiculous kill pressure with little to no risk involved. Just throwing w towards your carries immediately makes them fear for their lives, and they should be.
@ligmafigma9631 anything with cc can counter zed effectively if you time it perfectly into his W or R (he spawns behind his target so it's easy to predict unlike yi Q) and once he is hit woth cc it's a matter of wether he's a priority target for your team or not
@@rafikzebboudj543he doesn’t have to take the W just the presence of it alone on the map will make force the carry to leave the fight entirely plus he acts as a mage dealing dmg from range anyways which is why he’s frustrating
@@rafikzebboudj543zed one shotting Carries is not the frustrating part every assassin does that it’s the fact that he does that while being virtually risk free since he can just play as an ad caster if the carry doesn’t walk up and just win team fights from that
@shutupMaji not garen that's for sure lol, the point i was trying to make is that more often than not low elo players don't draft for matchups but for what they want to play, if i main veigar and i see zed locked enemy team i"m trolling if i pick veigar and that happens a lot
Wind wall and the wind shield tanking hits completely and not acting as a normal shield while also being recovered too quickly. Yasuo should have more of a Rakan's passive instead.
You don't just all in and hope he doesn't wind wall, you have to try and make the yasuo player use their wind wall early then go in, just like summoner spells
You are talking about the ability that keep him from exploding like a water balloon. Yas is ultra squishy as a melee duelist compared to his brother Yone
@@Nyxianmeows 20s cooldown. in league of legends 2024 where no fight lasts longer than 3 seconds. whoopity dooooooo. oh and your second comment of " bait it out". hope they fuck up, isnt counterplay.
Every iteration of zed except caster zed with ravenous has counterplay. He cant just waveclear spam with sustain, stand at 800 range and poking u, he has to go in and he has to snowball because he falls off.
I don't understand how losing to Zed is more frustrating than just being spin to win by Garen or dragged across the map by ksante with infinite dash and cc
I'm wondering how many people used to have to play against Zed when he was in a stronger laning state by either different numbers and/or with degenerate itemization like overtuned Tiamat->Ravenous Hydra and have just permabanned him ever since. Or were even just straight up less experienced and worse players a while back, and haven't given themselves a real chance to show themselves they can do better against him now that they are more developed players overall. This surely doesnt explain most of his banrate, but I wonder how far from zero it could conceivably be. It's not super possible to measure that.
Sorry, I know alot of people don't love it, but it allows me to make content faster and easier for people watching shortform August content Ty for the support doe
zed and yasuo it at least feels like they're outplaying you. malphite and garen just kinda run you down and get rewarded with zero effort it gets kind of frustrating
@@Ratty524because I can dodge Zed Q, I can flash Yasuos knock up. They’re squishy so I can build tank and ignore them and cs. Garen is a brainless spineless champion that can actually just start tower diving you at lvl 5. He also becomes thanos with a level lead and one item and doesn’t fall off ever.
Zed is one of the safest laners in the game, and is an assassin who almost behaves more like an ad mage. I dont think it’s a surprise as to why he’s frustrating. He doesnt have to hard commit to you, he kites well. He’s an assassin that can win by playing like a coward. Hardly any other assassin can do this
Disagree with him. The worst part about Zed is that unlike other assassins literally have to commit to a play with one of 2 results - kill or die - its a done deal, the play is happening and there is no fallback pattern (and thats were the true skillset of playing assassins shows - knowing your lethal range). Meanwhile Zed (and also LeBlanc btw, but thats more for high elo) gets to choose what he wants to do while he is making the play: Did I deal enough damage during the initiation of the play? No? Ok, I back of and try again later. This takes away some of the risk factor that comes with playing assassins which is failing the play and dying in consequence and that makes it so frustrating for players that face Zed and LeBlanc - low chance of punishment of bad initiations and no reward for outplaying them and the reward being killing the assassin that failed the play.
And this is why we aren't in charge of this stuff. Zed is significantly worse in higher mmr play then in lower mmr play. And it's because he's incredibly easy to deal with when you know what you're doing.
@huntersuper98 I mean you are statistically wrong, diamond+ and masters+ does better than the lower ranks. I don't really see the point in making a comment like yours without taking 30 seconds to check if you are right. It's most definitely champ dependent on whether you can outplay him regardless of elo.
@@themegaladon18 Well in Bronze and Iron sure Zed's winrate decreases. In low diamond his winrate increases and then starts to decrease when you get into Grandmaster/Challenger. This is because most of the zed otps who aren't low elo sit in around masters. Mains of a champion do actually affect the w/r on them and Zed is incredibly highly mained. For example though Zeds W/R in challenger is 42% which is so much lower then any other rank out there by at least 5%.
@@huntersuper98 zed performs worse in gold and below than any rank plat or above except challenger. And the thing about challenger is you have to take that data with a large grain of salt. A whole 336 games of zed have been played in challenger this patch. How accurate of a representation of zeds strength do you think that indicates? Trying to look at data like that in challenger is half worthless except for extremely high play rate and win rate champs in that elo. That's why you look at masters+ most of the time and grandmaster on occasion as that's pretty iffy too.
@@themegaladon18 The low sample size is because there are 500 people in that elo. Even the most popular champs in the entire game only have a few thousand games played. However when comparing silver/gold to masters/grandmasters Zed's winrate is 1% higher in masters/grandmasters which again is explainable by the fact that a LOT of Zed otp players exist in those elo ranges. The factor that you're not at all accounting for is the amount of mains. A 1% difference in w/r is hardly anything when comparing how effective a champion is in certain elo ranges. It also requires narrowing what is considered "useful stats" just to see this.
The issue is that everyone has specific quirks in their playstyle that can completely kill their playtime against any given champion. It depends on so many things, including player skill. Not everyone wants to play the game at a super high skill level, and like evelynn indicates : sometimes the game is made in a specific way that works in theory, but people refusing to pull the effort to play the game at the design's target skill level makes the design obsolete for the game. This is the everlasting struggle of any game with a fine balance point, and that tries to collect both high skill level and low skill level players.
Depends on the champion, but you have time to heal/shield/zhonya when Rengar jumps at you. Zed can ult Rengar while he's mid to negate all his damage and burst him right after
It's not a counterplay issue, the frustrating thing for the majority of these types of champions is their access to windows of opportunity. Not all assassins have the same levels of access or frequency. Rengar has very low access, for example, probably the lowest of all assassins. Nocturne as an assassin also has low access. Evelynn has moderate access, same as Talon partly because of their more straightforward engage being easier to react to. Then you bring up champions like Zed, Akali, and Katarina, who have very high engage frequency and access to basically every opportunity they see due to their mobility/engage not being locked behind a special passive interaction or an ultimate, and suddenly you realise counterplay isn't the issue, it's that they can keep trying again and again until they get it right with less wait time. Mix this in with roaming, and they snowball out of control just because they have the most access to opportunities in other lanes. So when these champions are getting banned it's less about them being frustrating in lane it's that even if you can beat them in lane they can still beat your other lanes which completely negates your skill as a laner.
As a Talon OTP, if I were to realistically compare Talon and Zed, the only thing that makes Talon better than Zed is the ability to jump over walls. Other than that, Zed is a stronger champ both in lane and late game. Early game, Zed throws Qs that you gotta dodge and if you don't, you get poked out. At level 2, he gets a blink ability and his range and damage essentially doubles. At level 3, he gets an extra ability that's an extra source of damage, a source of slow to land his combo easier, and E + 2 Qs is a guaranteed Electrocute proc. His combo is also instant, meaning that whether his combo lands isn't dependent on your skill at dodging, but the Zed's ability to aim his 3 instant-cast abilities. All this at level 3 without even having to get anywhere near the enemy. Lastly, he's manaless so as long as he's not low on hp and plays safe, he is in no rush to back, while you gradually lose hp and/or mana whether you choose to engage him or not. Talon, on the other hand, has a pretty meh poke ability level 1 and getting hit by the first part is guaranteed but not much of an issue. The second part of his W is not hard to dodge and Talon is not a threat if he doesn't land both parts of his W pre-6. Talon's Q, which he gets lvl2 is often used only as a way of going in, but not out. In comparison, Zed's dash ability that he gets lvl2 is more versatile since it can be used offensively or defensively. Lvl3, Talon gets his roam/escape tool, which, at this stage of the game is just "I can help go river to help take scuttle a few seconds faster than the other mid-laner". Overall, Zed has more damage and range in his kit and takes less time to do said damage which makes him superior in lane. As for Talon's roaming capabilities, it's not hard to avoid him from getting a lead if he roams and gets nothing out of it.
How could you say zed has counterplay, have you seen the trading patterns of zed in lane? He w eqs you from 1200 range and you are completely unable to retaliate, there is no punishment for failing to hit weq, just wait for w again. There is not really a window. If you try to punish him while his w is down he willl just walk away, and if keep pressuring him, he will again throw a shuirken at you from great range. The only time zed ever goes melee on you is when he has whittled you down from 3-4 weqs just ro finish tou off. Laning against zed is highly frustrating and leaves very little counterplay
If the main way to counterplay a champion is to flash, that counterplay may as well not exist for the average player. They're not going to hold flash for Zed, they'll flash too early or too late, etc. Additionally against good Zed players it may not be enough to flash since they'll hold W or be ready with their own flash to follow you, so that adds another layer of knowing what to do after the flash that the average player simply isn't very good at. Meanwhile as the Zed player it's quite easy to pull off the basic burst patterns. While he's a very skill-expressive champions, you don't actually need much skill to engage on and burst down a squishy champion, especially if that target isn't going to do much to stop your combo. What high skill Zeds are way better at is swapping places with shadows and being slippery. What that means is that in low ranks you'll often see Zeds be very frustrating early on and dominate small skirmishes in mid and bot, but fall off late due to being unable to stay alive in teamfights where you can't just force a kill.
@RealRiotAugust_ can u do smth about midlane all i get now is trist lb corki syndra hwei trist lb corki hwei trist corki trist lb trist syndra corki MAYBE a windshitter if im lucky all i feel is pain i just want my zed type of matchups back please i dont care what you do just give me a patch of fun ive been good i deserve it please its my birthday
The problem with Zed's counterplay is that half the champions don't have counters to zed. Seraphine can burst him and then shield herself. But what are you gonna do if you play a champion who doesn't have access to a way to protect themselves from a telegraphed attack, or the range to punish zed for committing?
The answer was mentioned by August. Healing, shielding and more importantly Armor. To counter zed is quite easy like August mentioned it, I don't understand why people don't get it. He's hard countered by armor and more importantly Zhonyas. The best counterplay to a champion is pointed out often by players experiencing frustration from them. The most vocal majority of Zed players hate Seeker's armguard which you can buy on Seraphine. August also talked about the Qss removal (not in this video) of Zed ult leading to a rise in winrate as Ad carries bought armor instead of Qss, an MR item at that time. TlDR, like most assassin's, Zed is countered by Armor, since his ult damage is delayed, he's the assassin countered the most by Zhonyas.
@@sukinsyn6387 His reason for existing is to kill you. If you Zhonyas, he doesn't kill you. The only thing zed does is delay your item timings as a mage of he forces an early zhonya, as an assassin you just play the skill match up. The only reason why people are frustrated with zed is because they expect an assassin to not be an assassin. They take tp + flash, don't buy armor and expect to occupy the same space as zed. The problem with this viewpoint is that escaping does not equal winning the game, so does mobility. If you look at other Mobas, most mobile assassin's aren't as hated as zed. Zed doesn't win you games by not dying, it's a common trend that shows your elo based on mobility on moba games.
Lots of reasons he's frustrating to play against, he can lane safely with Q from distance and has energy not mana. His minion execute makes farming trivial and allows him to push waves and roam quicker. Honestly i absolutely hate that he's so difficult to punish as he can just dash away from skillshots or ganks and that dash cannot be stopped. At least champions like yasou have to commit to the fight but Zed has such good escape that he doesn't. Glad the ravenous hydra zed is dead as he did a better job at being an artillery mage than actual artillery mages lmao
I think Zed is more frustrating to play against than Talon and even Yasuo because he is so much more safe. You are not going to kill the Zed unless he messes up.
8:17 What is the line of argumentation here? Janna doesnt feel frustrating but she is frustrating and thats why its not bad for a champ to be frustrating?
@@cappinocap Hes trying to prove that janna passive isnt frustrating with an example where janna passive is causing a kill = frustration. That shift of frustration is an illusion cause whats causing the frustration in his example is the janna passive, not the jax
August the type of guy to make literally the most unfun champion in the game to play against and proceeds to tell you its fine because they have a 52% win rate.
Zed is frustrating because when he is ahead in lane he has one of the least counterplay in the game, his trade patterns become obnoxious and theres no answer to the range he has, the problem of being frustrated comes from an inability to trade back onto him when hes ahead and getting hit by a shuriken from half the lane away for half your health bar, zed is weak but ahead its disgusting his ult is not the actual problem that frustrates people
The worst mistake they did with zed was accelarate his projectile speed of shadow and shuriken it made them so hard to dodge. Now you need to keep him low on dmg. Also zed is one of the big reason why mages like brand zyra left the midlane. His kit forgive mistake too much.
@@lucasvalbuena his w q combo is no longer dodgeable on reflex like it used to be. you HAVE to be in motion already to dodge it, which means every time zed correctly throws his w q its a 50/50 guessing game.
It’s crazy to me people don’t like playing against zed bro is throwing projectiles from multiple positions at once and if he’s not turbo fed you don’t even need to dodge them all to not get OS. Talon just point and clicks you with movement steroids.
Zed builds voltaic sword thing, slows you by 99% lands all abilities because basically can’t move (unless you can dash) and kills you I swear that item is broken, only reason I can’t deal with him (I play adc)
zed might lwt u have more counterplay, but he has counterplay to ur counterplay atevery stage of the game and for wvery scenario. if talon one shots u, u die. if talon fails to hes probably dead or out of a flash
buying an item isnt counterplay or at least shouldnt be. it grants a higher margin for error during the counter PLAY. buying an item against a champion that would have absolutely no possibility of being counterplayed would result in you dying anyway since a champion like that chamption couldnt be killed anyway.
I think Zed has a high ban rate, because his name is 3 characters long and 1 syllable so say, and when you have an opportunity to ban something, "Zed" comes to mind too easily. I bet if Zed's name was changed to something longer or less memorable, his ban rate would drop a little.
Look riot doesn’t understand that league champions can’t be analyzed via win rate or counters. Champs that are annoying are that way since they encourage anti-gameplay for any amount of time during a game that is unavoidable, that’s why ranged top is so annoying, most of the ranged top laner encourages you to not trade until 2-3 back where you then gradually win in a side lane. The same could be said for zed in a different sense, instead of being anti gameplay he is anti interaction where zed players always had to make the first move making the lane feel unfair and lob sided
Im master tier euw and I love versing all the zeds, yasuos, Katarina's and other otps. The game is always tense, skillful and fun. Playing every game against a hwei or a brand is sucking the soul out of me
If you can outplay it and you die, it means its your fault. If theres no counterplay and you die, its the game's fault. If I've learnt one thing playing this game is that people will never blame themselves, so whenever the only one they can blame is themselves they get more tilted and hate the character more. Zeds fairness and counterplay at every point in the game (unless he got really fed for some reason) makes it so that when people die to him, they have to blame themselves, and to not have to do that, they ban him.
This isn’t accurately describing why players are frustrated by zed though. It’s not the fact that he can kill you in a way that’s fair, it’s his ability to effectively play like a mage while blinking around his shadows that’s annoying as fuck. I don’t care that a zed kills me after landing a triple q on me, what’s annoying is when he can zone me from the minion wave for the next 6 seconds with a ridiculously short cd w. It’s the fact that he can zone your carries away from a team fight better than a viktor w or aurelion e can, on a shorter cooldown with more kill pressure all while being even safer than either of them. That’s the issue.
Zed just feels bad to play against no matter what you play bruisers/tank can never catch him cause of his w not having a CD mages/arcs can’t show up on the map or else they get deleted he’s an incredibly safe assassin that can play as a pseudo mage while putting out immense amount of pressure on carries
basically: ''I don't like getting outplayed, therefore this champ should never be good'' Anyone who has played zed knows he takes skill, 70% of his burst can be avoided and any decent player will starve him in lane or solo kill him and make him useless for the rest of the game, he is a caster minion pre 6, even someone super weak like yone will destroy him if he walks up, even after 6, if you dodge his shurikens the ult will never do enough dmg
Or even master yi. They pick a mage, who is most likely countered by zed, then proceed to surprise Pikachu face when they, actually, get countered, all while they refuse to buy armor and just keep rushing pure dmg items. It's funny
well, zeds "skillshots" don't really feel fair to play against. His Q is quite fast and with his W and R he can guarantee it to be close range, with a slow also being in his kit. An experienced Zed player will make these skillshots not feel like skillshots. Often times it feels like flashing is the only option here, which just is miserable to play against imo
I find this frustrating because he's saying the game is balanced according to the desires of dumb players. Just because people perceive enchanters as less frustrating (even though they exist to be anti fun for the other team) doesn't mean they're right. In his example, current riot would nerf the jax not the janna even though he's not the problem
As a mage player I noticed one thing. Assassins are usually a bit tankier in early game, which is fine because they are melee and they are at higher risk of being damaged. Now the thing is, in case of other assassins like Qiyana or Talon, that tankyness is compensated by them having to go in and stand in my minion wave while we fight. Zed however doesn't need to do that since he trades with shadows so he feels incredibly tanky + most other assassins have a dash as their engage tool which makes them vulnerable to deisengage or other cc abilities while Zed uses only blinks. Not to mention that Zhonyas, being so famous for countering him, doesn't really help unless your whole team is nearby. Just today I played Cassiopeia with RoA, Liyandri and Zhonya meaning I had 900 HP and 50 armor of bonus defensive stats. Completely neutralized his ult with Zhonya and he still oneshoted me right after Zhonya expired.
Zed is at his weakest right after he ults you. He will always show up directly behind you relative to his position before he ulted, so if you use your CC then, you can be the one to burst him instead, even if he initially got you low. So characters like Cass, Ahri, Qiyana, Lux, etc are good matchups into him because of this, or really anyone with instant hard CC.
And what did he have for items? Noone should be entilted to being unkillable because they built correct items. If zed 1 shot you without his ult even proccing through all the hp items and armor items you had, he must have been fed.
But laning phase is his most vulnerable? He is still a melee champion and you can still bully him out of last hitting creeps. Him trying to farm with Q off CD isnt catch every minion. And every time you see him use a Q, you know youre safe to walk up and keep bullying because thats his entire damage. He trades with his shadow and then its down for the next 20 seconds. Capitalize. Keep track. If you know his W is up and you see him walk up to try to Q a minion, youre safe to walk up and bully. Either you get free poke on him, or you force him to W defensively and bought yourself another 20 seconds. Cass actually does fantastic against him in lane btw. I feel like a lot of mage players for some reason just erase the entire logic of "play around cooldowns" when playing against Zed its so bizarre. And i know this might be hard for you to believe but, when he walks up to try to trade, you can trade back.
@@raulsauceda7392 ? i think you replied to the wrong guy, i personally think zed is trash against anyone that is willing to learn the champ and the matchup
I legit never understood the Zed hate, banned in low elo, high skill champ, you can dodge the skill shots and he needs his W to trade or escape, even as Kassidan before level 6 he's actually not hard to go against, a cloth armor, using minions to reduce damage if he actually does it hit a skill shot, I don't get why people dislike going against zed as if any other champ doesn't have the same damage but more consistent
I main Zed, one time he got picked by the enemy and the only other midlaner i played was Vel koz (pre buffs). Because i know how Zed works and what items to buy and how to act in lane i went even on a huge counter lane. The problem is that you guys let every Zed act first and play around his actions. Most people just have a mental block against zed, i myself have a mental block against Le blanc and i find her annoying with no counterplay.
I love these comments saying that you can't do anything against Zed in the lane phase because he can just farm with his abilities and back off with his shadow. Imagine being a melee champion in a lane that most champions are ranged and you are expected to be in short range against them all the time lol. These people really don't know how to dodge Zed's abilities, even less how to abuse his cooldowns. I play as and against Zed, and I rather play against a good Zed player who can poke me well and dive me with a full combo and a Durk than playing against a annoying champion who doesn't need to aim their skills like Ahri. I don't think that Ahri is op at this moment by any means, but when it comes to the frustration that people have of playing against Zed I just can't help myself and think about the disparity in effort of those match-ups. Like, you are the one who can just farm safely with you AAs, you probably have a hard CC to set up a gank for your jungler, you can just oush your wave with just one or two abilities and poke at the same time without losing damage. People talk about Zed not having mana, but I wish Zed have it, because they don't know that in order for Zed regain energy to continue a combo he must have hit more than one ability at the same time (like Q with Zed and his W), if you spam your abilities and don't hit them, even if you have the cd to cast them again, you can't, because you run out of energy. Also Muramana is such a good item for ad assassins that its a shame that Zed could not get to use it. I'm all for balacing the game in a way that its fair, interactive and fun for both teams, but its unfortunate that Riot just don't know and don't want to do it (some champions don't show up in pro and soloque for years and they don't do anything, but other ones can't be one patch a little weak that they must buff them so people can play with them). By the way, as a Shen main, I miss the most fun matchup for me, Shen vs Maokai. Oh boy, these two make a very long and intense fight.
Playing against yasuo argument is abit eh, obv if ure playing an immobile mage and all yas has to do is block 1 key ability to beat u ofc u will have a bad time. Renekton on the other hand
no matter how many times i watch this video , i still think that this 'strat' is one of the reasons some people are hard stuck iron . the core aspects of a game ,no matter the genre , are skills and knowledge with the latter being more important . If you eliminate the chance to research and actually learn how to play the game , how are players supposed to get out of iron ??? as a demonstration to how bad and braindead this 'strat' is ,we can go to the Briar release ...mf didin't read that her E cancels her berserk state and thus her winrate plummeted so hard they insta buffed her . afterwards ,players realised the importance of briar's E and with(unnecessary) buffs she became ultra giga broken and way too over tuned they hard to nerf her .truly disgusting!
Comments still just as delusional as ever, try to rank up using zed rn and we'll see if he "isn't skillful." Statistics don't matter, riot dev explaining everything in high detail doesn't matter, to a league player who needs to protect their ego and pride, admitting anything is out of the option.
For me zed is frustrating because: 1) Too low cd on q. With his INCREDIBLE mobility u just dont have a space to punish him. Until he use w ofc, but he doesnt need use w for farm. So he like always can fight with u, always can trade with u. Talon/Fizz/Qiyana not the same they must use battle spell for farm so have window to free harass them if play bad. 2) Stupid itemization. After 0 skill ravenous aka w-q wave gone Zed got Cyclosword which even more stupid and provade even more unskilled gameplay just from other side.
@6:20 I actually disagree with this to a certain extent. You can argue that yasuo has more counterplay than malphite, but that's only in the hands of an inexperienced yasuo player. Same goes for Zed. Zed actually has almost no counterplay when piloted correctly. His ult has counterplay, yes, but his overall playstyle does not. He has one of the highest agencies in the game. He's an assassin that can play like an artillery mage with no mana, with mobility, that can also go melee range to kill you. His only weakness is his lackluster damage in the early game. Sure you can dodge zed's damage in some cases.... but it usually doesn't actually mean much. He doesn't need to commit much in order to actually kill you in a 1v1 scenario, and a good zed won't ult you until it's effectively guaranteed. Yasuo works in a similar way. He has so much agency that he gets to pick his fights, not you as the opponent. So even if he can't win most of them, that doesn't matter. He can dash around and poke and prod until he lands his knockup, at which point he can just win the all in or keep kiting and harrassing, or just run you down if he's stronger. In most cases if you beat a yasuo it's because the yasuo messed up, not you. Same goes for zed. That's not a satisfying feeling. So if you die, it's frustrating, if they die, it's whatever. The counterplay means that yea, you can win that fight against yasuo or zed, but unless the pilots are bad you won't actually be able to take advantage of that in a lot of scenarios. Of course some other very high agency champions can, but the majority of players don't have the capability to capitalize on that, and I believe it's more difficult to capitalize on zed/yasuo's weakness than it is to be a yasuo/zed player and capitalize on their strengths.
@robertbauerle5592 yasuo is very oppressive against anything that is ranged but extremely weak imo against bruisers they destroy him so hard, zed on the other hand is weak vs cc so if your team decides to go 5 squishies with 0 cc he's gonna have a field day, his poke is also weak in lane if you position behind your wave since his Q damage drops when hitting 1st target, so as long as you don't give him a lead he will never be strong (yasuo will always be strong in isolation so avoid him or call your jgler)
I really don't understand how people think "just bait yasuo's WW" or "just make sure zed never ults you" is decent counterplay. Like, you have to count on the yasuo for using his WW incorrectly, and for the your teammates to ALWAYS have vision where zed could flank from. Counterplay? Really?
All trolls. Zed is a melee Champion with pokes. Fizz is also melee with all ins. Mages are ranged with reliable cooldowns. Theyre both squishy. Main difference is no cc. All damage. Offers nothing to teammates. These characters are selfish. Not only that they are predictable. Includies talon, kat and other sins.
So what he's saying at the beginning is that even though they do the same thing, because Zed gets to emote after he deserves to be weaker... Maybe we shouldn't balance the game around how people feel...
I dont know...Zed is one of the 3 or 4 Assassins that have actually counterplay. I really like playing vs Zed mid. Its fun. To me its much more annoying to play vs sth Like talon, Diana, kayn,...that just point and clicks you from 100 to 0. It just feels "unskilled" if they get you. We need more assassins like Zed. Nowdays 80% of assassins just click on you
August is wrong. It isn't because Zed's counterplay can't be perceived, it's because it's not meaningful. If rengar doesn't oneshot you he dies. If Zed doesn't oneshot you, he teleports twice and runs away. A good zed cannot die, and it's fucking shit to play against.
Thats the worst analogy every champ has their outplay potential and champs like yas and zed have a cleaner outplay potential but are tuned down more than lets say seraphine just cuz she takes longer to outplay you and this is all because they went ahead with game duration changes
Zed doesn’t really have that much counterplay for most of the roster. If you have no mobility and no cc, and he picks up a kill because your jungler sprints an invade while you’re on reset, then your lane is basically over.
@@Ghosta085 yes thats why there is champ select thats why its called mastering the game thats why league became popular originally because it felt like chess but with apm now its lets play a game and hope our teamates are good but lets talk about how zed doesnt have counterplay and blame players for learning and mastering the champ they play because were all old people
@MrHighfiveit you mean the double stopwatch go talon E yourself off a building zed counterplay? Yeah, fun times. It was deleted because it was the worst mechanic in the game, buying 5 seconds in league is enough for your full team to group on you that's not counterplay that's unplayable for assassins
Ok so basically ppl are too bad to dodge skill shot so it’s better to get point-and-click-stun-face-planted to wall into one shot by qiyana where the only counterplay u have is to flash the milli-second the animation plays. Ok, so zed mains your champ is nerfed bcz of silvers, unlucky. Joke aside, zed is degenerate when he can just one shot wave and perma roam for free, a thing that talon used to do in the past but got nerfed for obvious reasons.
my personal gripe with zed is how safe he is in lane with w and i feel like the only reason its even somewhat hard to dodge his q is the usual insta e w that just slows u so the q is easier to hit
I think it's worth commenting that part of what makes a lot of the champs; like zed, yasuo, Yone(when he is strong), zeri, shaco, lilia, and also talon... Is that it requires not only a depth of knowledge about that champs unique abilities and what counters their abilities, but also requires the opposing player to be piloting a champ with a kit that can sufficiently keep up, and for the opposing player to have the reaction speeds, hardware, and mechanical skill expression necessary to outplay. Plus on older champs you might be heavily reliant on summoner spells just to match a newer champions basic abilitym Malphite has clear strengths and weaknesses, Yone and zed do not. There is less game knowledge required to outplay a Malphite, and he has a more limited set of actions he can take against you. So I think a large part of it is that when the enemy Champs has significantly more agency than you do, that makes them very frustrating to deal with.
too much power in his w + q spam its just annoying as fuck. Should make it so his Q does very little damage but applies a mark, and when zed auto attacks or hits the target with his E it procs the mark
No. It's because zed can counterplay YOU while talon is still an assassin. Zed pokes indefinetly kills you and NEVER has to all in to do it. And even if he does he didn't cause he can teleport away. No shit an assassin assassins people... even though they do it too well and the class SHOULDN'T be consistent and, instead, counterpicks to squishy comps but still... Zed is kinda like what Garen is for Fighters (on the receiving end. I'm not comparing skill to pull it off even though Zed isn't the hardest champ himself)
I think that the problem with zed is that a good zed is almost unbeatable. We all have had these games where a zed just 1v5d you're entire team on a loop and you felt completely powerless and that was the one we remember. If you look at talon, yes he can oneshot even easier when fed and there is even less you can do about. But when you know there was nothing no one can do about it, it somehow feels less bad, then when you see your entire team miss all their skillshots and cc while zed 1shots you and then just teleports out on repeat.
Zed "all ins you" and then isn't near you. Zed wave clears and pokes from further than basically anyone else can without commiting their ults. Zed is incredibly annoying.
I can agree with the first and last points but the second point is just somewhat ignorant. He can't clear a wave without being close to it anymore (he doesn't have ravenous anymore) and unless you're a melee champ you are able to poke him back if he does WEQ. If he's just doing WQ from outside of your range it does piss poor damage early and if it passes through a minion it does like 40% less damage so it just tickles you
I think assassins should be forced to commit. That doesn’t mean they should’t have a way to escape after but the escape should be conditional and skill based. Like as much people shit on ekko ult for being a get outta jail free card I think it’s genuinely very well designed. It’s his only escape, it’s on a long cooldown and if you just use it to escape, you’re missing out on a large portion of ekko’s damage. Character’s like zed or leblanc that don’t really have to commit divulge from the rest of the cast in a very obnoxious way. I don’t think either of these champs should be changed because they’re very skill expressive and fun to play, but they should avoid that type of assassin design in the future.
the issue with zed is he is an assassin, with all the strengths of being an assassin, but also has the neutral game of a control mage. the dude plays the game from 1600 range until you fall into kill range, which is only 60-70% hp mind you. But that isnt even everything. Ad assassins in agregate have an item to negate ANY weaknesses they might have. Using this Zed example, his weakness is that he is very cooldown gated................... so every item he builds has CDR on it. Qiyana is weak into anything with waveclear, it stops her from roaming............ so she rushes profane hydra, and has waveclear out her ass on no real cooldown. How about a jungle assassin? well nocturn is super ultimate reliant, so he has axium arc rush to cover that. how about the turbo rare support assassin pyke? his biggest weakness is vision, cause it shuts off his "i win every trade" passive. so he spends TWO THOUSANDS SIX HUNDRED GOLD on umbral glaive and deletes that weakness. I mean christ, where is my "mages blow ass into anything with mobility" solution item? Where is my "everything 0.3 hits me" solution item for adcs? Where is the "resistances mean nothing in league 2024" solution item for tanks? onto the frustating champion design portion. you do realize there is an inbetween from "old janna passive being insane but not as noticed" and Skarner LITTERALY afk running people down from full hp under their own inhib turrets while t1 turret is still up. There IS an inbetween. Not to mention we DO have new champions who aren't super frustrating. Vex is a PERFECT example when she isnt played into anythign 200 years, in which case, they deserve to deal with what they tried to force everyone else to deal with. Millio is a good example. Renata is a good example. you know what is an example of the frustrating part of the cast? Naafiri who 900 range point and click instant kills squishies. or Briar who flat out afk runs people down and has a low cd dash that goes over walls. or bel'veth who just dashes 9000000 times in a fight.
League community are just boreline mental flatliners. You dodge Zed q, Zed does no damage. Unless Zed is fed it has to hit multiple skill shots in an all-in to kill. And if it is fed, its because the zed hit multiple skill shots repeatedly to get that kill.
In the first levels he does non existant damage with his Qs or Es, the moment that mf grabs a pickaxe he does a lot more damage with a single non commited combo than a Vladimir with 60 ap
@@broidkanymore-zc4lt Do me a favour, choose a mid lane champ, type that champ vs zed challenger on youtube. Watch how they will all be able to dodge the Q in lane after getting slowed. Also as long as you're behind 1 minion, the Q damage is reduced, also the shadow Q you can get hit by 1 of those it doesn't do enough. Unless Zed is EXTREMELY fed, Zed needs to land MULTIPLE skill shots to kill.
"Champs that straight up give stats with no skill expression are bad designs"
So he basically said that Yummi is a bad design.
@@Chuaaaaaaaaaaaaa when did he say that?
didn't he already say that champ was like his biggest regret or whoever made it
He already said that and riot already admitted that yuumi is a failed design
I would a 100% agree that Yuumi is a bad design. One big issue with her design is making her defensive stats low so that she is easy to kill, but this drawback is made completely pointless by the fact that she cannot be hit while supporting a champ, and the only way to then do something about her is to kill the champ she is supporting, which she is buffing so that this champ is harder to kill, ... That is bad design.
@@zan6585 i thought that was zeri or gnar
I would disagree in one aspect. If Zed fails at assassinating you, and that player has played their cards right, chances are they can make it out alive. If talon messes up his assassination, he’ll just die. Either you die, or he dies. Zed doesn’t necessarily abide by that rule, and I think that’s why he’s so frustrating to play against.
Like, if you flash away from a zed, and aren’t in kill range, he’ll just R out. If you flash away from a talon or a Rengar, they’ll slowly struggle and run towards a bush/wall. You now have an opportunity to kill Rengar or Talon. You’d be over extended if you went for Zed, plus you have to run around his shadow to avoid getting slowed by his E if you run through it. He’s straight up more slippery. The same reason why Kat is annoying as hell to deal with, although kat has a far less safe laning phase. So yea. I don’t think it’s so much about “kill speed” rather than options.
depending on where a fight goes down, talon is arguably way more mobile, the only way his mobility in the jg area can be fair and balanced is if he has 0 mobility in the middle of the lane, zed only has 2 blinks, talon can jump over every single wall
This. Zed is maybe the only assassin that can fight without commiting/going all in. He throws his combo from midrange and he can then decide from a safe distance to follow up or not, as opposed to someone like talon or rengar who need to be on top of you to do their things
@yeet7521 Well, Leblanc also does, but she is a magic dmg assassin. One could make the argument Fizz fits as well, and yes, he js very slippery, but he can't engage and disengage the same distance. Zed, Leblanc, Yone, Fizz feel unfair because they have "get out of jail free cards".
@@kentuckyfriedchildren5385ive pretty much just accepted that talons going to get away if i try to chase after a teamfight. Hes slippery enough that his E feels easy to predict, like hea near a wall i wonder what hes gonna do.
Zed can make movement anywhere and on a enemy with point and click R invuln.
Even if i try to punish a zed for burning R or W, i feel like he has a opportunity to get away very very easily if he used only one of those abilities. Though if he did use both, itd be a 1 for 1.
Yep this is why I hate zed. Sure talon can jump walls but that just means you try to avoid fighting him in locations that are good for him. Zed doesn’t have as many limits in that fashion. Sure him crashing a wall with his shadow is safer but in lane phase his shadows are good enough assuming he doesn’t waste them. Talon has much less access to good wall options during lane.
Nah it's just that a long time ago someone at riot thought an assassin with noncommittal poke was a good idea lol
Thanks, he is an ad mage with blinks
@@hanshysher6266 he's litteraly an ad control mage with the burst power of an assassin.
so like.. every single burst mage?
@@xcqrbon small difference. mages are immobile, and dont have items that negate their weaknesses like ad assassins do.
@@einjharrelraca no shit they're immobile they can one shot you from under tower 😭😭😭😭
Wait, I think I cracked the code of a frustrating midlane champion.
You are facing a champion with a good neutral that has strong all-in potential and escape. They have a trading pattern that's ALWAYS on their terms, and they can leave the trade whenever they want, as long as they don't royally mess it up. They are almost uncatchable without a hard cc, and if your cc isn't a point-and-click - they have a lot of mobility to dodge a skillshot. You always feel like you rely on them making a mistake and getting impatient, rather than making your own play. They snowball extremely hard, but even if you outplayed them and won the lane, you still have to respect them, since they can scale into a menace from a few kills.
Which champion was I talking about? Hint - there's more than one right answer!
@DemonerLycan i think the cc part is inaccurate except for maybe kata's blink, every other high mobility champ i can think of has a timer u can abuse(zed R spawns behind u very easy to cc, ahri has a cd between R charges ...etc)
@@rafikzebboudj543but the thing with zed is that he can instantly swap to his W shadow after coming out of his R
@ottoharing7161 if you are in range for him to ult you without akready using W to gap close you did something wrong, you're not supposed to play inside his R range under any circumstances
I dont know what a neutral is but yes, its the ability to disengage plus the kill potential. Also its really funny to me that no ones thinking about the fact that a champion with a lot of counterplay might be balanced AROUND that fact that they have a lot of counterplay so theyre gonna be disproportionately strong in other aspects. And zeds 3 sec ult does not in fact leave much room for counterplay alone in lane because what are you gonna do? Have 3 more secs for your barrier that no one plays to come back up? Lol
@Aryzo Not trying to defend Zed too much, but the 3 secs allow you to react and do defensive actions such as Zhonya's. Now for how useful it is for your survival is dictated purely by how well you're positioning, but when compared to literally any other Assassin, Zed suffers the most from summoners and items because a Rengar who caught you off guard will actually just instantly punish you by one-shotting, where Zed would actually give you a few seconds to come up with something to save yourself and outplay him. The reason why it's worse for many players is because they think that getting one-shot knowing that you could've done something is worse than getting one-shot knowing you couldn't. A.k.a. it's another showcase of League community being delusional and trying their best to avoid the conclusion of them being bad, they'd rather blame the champ that one-shots you without counterplay. Also the reason why Zed isn't banned as much high elo.
Zed harasses you until he commits to the kill, goes even in lane.
Talon 1 shots you or he doesn't. Weak lane.
Zed is AD-Akali and vice-versa. Safe lane with snowball element
I'm platinum so maybe this is a low elo thing but zed (as he is currently) feels very weak as long as you space him correctly, i like picking ahri or hwei into him just to farm out of his W range, worst case scenario he hits 1 Q and can never all in
@@rafikzebboudj543 Thats the proper way to play. And those champ picks are actually pretty solid against him. Just play it like any other ranged vs melee lane, the only difference is every 20 seconds you gotta play around his W (which even then is still able to be bullied if youre forcing him to farm with Q off cooldown). Hes doing mediocre in high elo right now. Youre ahead of the curve.
@@rafikzebboudj543 this works until the zed players develop the 3 iq needed to play the champion. then they realize, nullifying orb + hexdrinker + merc treads negates the existance of any mage in this game. oh and they figure out that they actually have 925 range ( 275 higher than caitlyn range) to cs with safely.
@einjharrelraca if he cs woth W he has no kill pressure so just perma push and roam and u win lane. Zed is not hard to counter unless you play a no mobility no cc low waveclear champ into him and if that's the case idk what to tell u learn to draft for your matchups
@@rafikzebboudj543 925 is his q range WITHOUT w my dude. he has a long range, short cooldown, no cost tool to farm with from longer range than ahri can farm with her q bro. AND its aoe so it can counteract any attempts to shove.
and zed plays those matchups as an artillery mage what are you talking about? XD
every single thing you mentioned in your 3 comments replying to me is "hope the zed fucks up and loses to the shopkeeper".
and no, play only champions with point and click hard cc is not counterplay either. when we TRIED THAT riot gutted every control mage in this game so far into the dirt, that playing any of them was a reportable offence and people got banned for it in korea.
Comes in, attempts oneshot, doesn't elaborate, leaves
If you see this August: Like you say, it's mostly Zeds popularity. Heimerdinger Malzahar and Shaco are by far my most hated champs to play against but I don't ban them unless their winrate is currently high because they don't have a big playerbase in my elo. If I ban Zed over Talon that's PURELY because I am 20x more likely to face a Zed OTP than to face a Talon OTP, it's really more about the perceived value of the ban.
But he's taking that and drawing the conclusion that he should be nerfed simply because he's popular not because he's strong. Which is insane to me
@@TheJerbolbut he didn't say that? He said that they watch data on every region to see the character performance across the board before making any changes it necessary.
It's crazy that he talks about evelynn's old stealth as if it was balanced because pinkwards exist... it was the ONLY champ in the game which forced you to pay a 75 gold tax every now and then to be able to have a chance to play normally...
Zeds frustrating because he’s effectively a long range mage with the mobility of a Leblanc. His w zones you from the entire wave or team fight for its duration all while being off your screen and still a lethal threat to your carries. He has ridiculous kill pressure with little to no risk involved. Just throwing w towards your carries immediately makes them fear for their lives, and they should be.
@ligmafigma9631 anything with cc can counter zed effectively if you time it perfectly into his W or R (he spawns behind his target so it's easy to predict unlike yi Q) and once he is hit woth cc it's a matter of wether he's a priority target for your team or not
@@rafikzebboudj543he doesn’t have to take the W just the presence of it alone on the map will make force the carry to leave the fight entirely plus he acts as a mage dealing dmg from range anyways which is why he’s frustrating
@@rafikzebboudj543zed one shotting Carries is not the frustrating part every assassin does that it’s the fact that he does that while being virtually risk free since he can just play as an ad caster if the carry doesn’t walk up and just win team fights from that
@@rafikzebboudj543crazy, who else does this cc counter in the game
@shutupMaji not garen that's for sure lol, the point i was trying to make is that more often than not low elo players don't draft for matchups but for what they want to play, if i main veigar and i see zed locked enemy team i"m trolling if i pick veigar and that happens a lot
It’s insane that he mentions Yasuo’s dashes, but not windwall, the actual problematic 0 counter play part of his kit
Wind wall and the wind shield tanking hits completely and not acting as a normal shield while also being recovered too quickly. Yasuo should have more of a Rakan's passive instead.
0 counterplay? It has like a 20 second cooldown, you play around its cooldown
You don't just all in and hope he doesn't wind wall, you have to try and make the yasuo player use their wind wall early then go in, just like summoner spells
You are talking about the ability that keep him from exploding like a water balloon. Yas is ultra squishy as a melee duelist compared to his brother Yone
@@Nyxianmeows 20s cooldown. in league of legends 2024 where no fight lasts longer than 3 seconds. whoopity dooooooo.
oh and your second comment of " bait it out". hope they fuck up, isnt counterplay.
Two champs that are stupidy and frustating to play agaisn't, Yone & K'sante.
Every iteration of zed except caster zed with ravenous has counterplay. He cant just waveclear spam with sustain, stand at 800 range and poking u, he has to go in and he has to snowball because he falls off.
falls off? brother this is league of legends 2024. the average game time in 24 minutes. no one is ever "falling off"
@@einjharrelracahonestly 😂 I remember level 18 wasn’t crazy to hit now all games end by level 16 😂
@@juicefunk6343 alas im a jungle/support player. so level 16 is just a myth to us. games end with us at 12-14.
@@einjharrelraca play hyper farmer jungle champs if you can! This is the farming meta!
@@juicefunk6343 i mean. one of my primary picks is karthus lol. but thats my pick when my lanes are all playing ungankable garbage.
I don't understand how losing to Zed is more frustrating than just being spin to win by Garen or dragged across the map by ksante with infinite dash and cc
Cuz zed is lower skill champ than garen but his players think they’re skill full when they R you and miss everything and still kill you
@@waliddib5291 lmao say you're tilted without saying you're tilted
you're iron
@@Bluebird-fd9rt I’m master and you
When you jump on garen, he dies. When you jump on zed, he dashes with W, deletes your ult with his ult, slowes you with E and his W returns meanwhile
I'm wondering how many people used to have to play against Zed when he was in a stronger laning state by either different numbers and/or with degenerate itemization like overtuned Tiamat->Ravenous Hydra and have just permabanned him ever since.
Or were even just straight up less experienced and worse players a while back, and haven't given themselves a real chance to show themselves they can do better against him now that they are more developed players overall.
This surely doesnt explain most of his banrate, but I wonder how far from zero it could conceivably be. It's not super possible to measure that.
I love the content : )
I hate the aspect ratio of the videos : (
Sorry, I know alot of people don't love it, but it allows me to make content faster and easier for people watching shortform August content
Ty for the support doe
and these days my counterplay to eve is: if eve lvl 6 -> dont leave tower until see (sometimes you get ganked first unlucky go next)
Boils down to: feels bad to get outplayed.
Id rather zed and yasuo be strong rather than malphite/garen.
Why not all? 🤠
yes
Why?
zed and yasuo it at least feels like they're outplaying you. malphite and garen just kinda run you down and get rewarded with zero effort it gets kind of frustrating
@@Ratty524because I can dodge Zed Q, I can flash Yasuos knock up. They’re squishy so I can build tank and ignore them and cs. Garen is a brainless spineless champion that can actually just start tower diving you at lvl 5. He also becomes thanos with a level lead and one item and doesn’t fall off ever.
I am ok with his laning but when he ass pulls kills on ur teammates and then Just needs to ult undet turret for kills then it is too much.
Why am i hearing elden ring in the background?
Zed is one of the safest laners in the game, and is an assassin who almost behaves more like an ad mage. I dont think it’s a surprise as to why he’s frustrating. He doesnt have to hard commit to you, he kites well. He’s an assassin that can win by playing like a coward. Hardly any other assassin can do this
Disagree with him. The worst part about Zed is that unlike other assassins literally have to commit to a play with one of 2 results - kill or die - its a done deal, the play is happening and there is no fallback pattern (and thats were the true skillset of playing assassins shows - knowing your lethal range).
Meanwhile Zed (and also LeBlanc btw, but thats more for high elo) gets to choose what he wants to do while he is making the play: Did I deal enough damage during the initiation of the play? No? Ok, I back of and try again later. This takes away some of the risk factor that comes with playing assassins which is failing the play and dying in consequence and that makes it so frustrating for players that face Zed and LeBlanc - low chance of punishment of bad initiations and no reward for outplaying them and the reward being killing the assassin that failed the play.
And this is why we aren't in charge of this stuff. Zed is significantly worse in higher mmr play then in lower mmr play. And it's because he's incredibly easy to deal with when you know what you're doing.
@huntersuper98 I mean you are statistically wrong, diamond+ and masters+ does better than the lower ranks. I don't really see the point in making a comment like yours without taking 30 seconds to check if you are right. It's most definitely champ dependent on whether you can outplay him regardless of elo.
@@themegaladon18 Well in Bronze and Iron sure Zed's winrate decreases. In low diamond his winrate increases and then starts to decrease when you get into Grandmaster/Challenger. This is because most of the zed otps who aren't low elo sit in around masters. Mains of a champion do actually affect the w/r on them and Zed is incredibly highly mained. For example though Zeds W/R in challenger is 42% which is so much lower then any other rank out there by at least 5%.
@@huntersuper98 zed performs worse in gold and below than any rank plat or above except challenger. And the thing about challenger is you have to take that data with a large grain of salt. A whole 336 games of zed have been played in challenger this patch. How accurate of a representation of zeds strength do you think that indicates? Trying to look at data like that in challenger is half worthless except for extremely high play rate and win rate champs in that elo. That's why you look at masters+ most of the time and grandmaster on occasion as that's pretty iffy too.
@@themegaladon18 The low sample size is because there are 500 people in that elo. Even the most popular champs in the entire game only have a few thousand games played. However when comparing silver/gold to masters/grandmasters Zed's winrate is 1% higher in masters/grandmasters which again is explainable by the fact that a LOT of Zed otp players exist in those elo ranges. The factor that you're not at all accounting for is the amount of mains. A 1% difference in w/r is hardly anything when comparing how effective a champion is in certain elo ranges. It also requires narrowing what is considered "useful stats" just to see this.
Bro fix viego pls i messaged you 2 years ago about a bug and you still couldn't fix that simple thing ...
What is that cyclone blade -99% mvt spd in 1 aa? That is unfair as fuck!
The issue is that everyone has specific quirks in their playstyle that can completely kill their playtime against any given champion. It depends on so many things, including player skill.
Not everyone wants to play the game at a super high skill level, and like evelynn indicates : sometimes the game is made in a specific way that works in theory, but people refusing to pull the effort to play the game at the design's target skill level makes the design obsolete for the game.
This is the everlasting struggle of any game with a fine balance point, and that tries to collect both high skill level and low skill level players.
So we made Yone an assassin fighter
Im a rengar player and the one thing that players cannot do when i ultimate them is react.
Depends on the champion, but you have time to heal/shield/zhonya when Rengar jumps at you.
Zed can ult Rengar while he's mid to negate all his damage and burst him right after
It's not a counterplay issue, the frustrating thing for the majority of these types of champions is their access to windows of opportunity. Not all assassins have the same levels of access or frequency. Rengar has very low access, for example, probably the lowest of all assassins. Nocturne as an assassin also has low access. Evelynn has moderate access, same as Talon partly because of their more straightforward engage being easier to react to. Then you bring up champions like Zed, Akali, and Katarina, who have very high engage frequency and access to basically every opportunity they see due to their mobility/engage not being locked behind a special passive interaction or an ultimate, and suddenly you realise counterplay isn't the issue, it's that they can keep trying again and again until they get it right with less wait time. Mix this in with roaming, and they snowball out of control just because they have the most access to opportunities in other lanes. So when these champions are getting banned it's less about them being frustrating in lane it's that even if you can beat them in lane they can still beat your other lanes which completely negates your skill as a laner.
As a Talon OTP, if I were to realistically compare Talon and Zed, the only thing that makes Talon better than Zed is the ability to jump over walls. Other than that, Zed is a stronger champ both in lane and late game.
Early game, Zed throws Qs that you gotta dodge and if you don't, you get poked out. At level 2, he gets a blink ability and his range and damage essentially doubles. At level 3, he gets an extra ability that's an extra source of damage, a source of slow to land his combo easier, and E + 2 Qs is a guaranteed Electrocute proc. His combo is also instant, meaning that whether his combo lands isn't dependent on your skill at dodging, but the Zed's ability to aim his 3 instant-cast abilities. All this at level 3 without even having to get anywhere near the enemy. Lastly, he's manaless so as long as he's not low on hp and plays safe, he is in no rush to back, while you gradually lose hp and/or mana whether you choose to engage him or not.
Talon, on the other hand, has a pretty meh poke ability level 1 and getting hit by the first part is guaranteed but not much of an issue. The second part of his W is not hard to dodge and Talon is not a threat if he doesn't land both parts of his W pre-6. Talon's Q, which he gets lvl2 is often used only as a way of going in, but not out. In comparison, Zed's dash ability that he gets lvl2 is more versatile since it can be used offensively or defensively. Lvl3, Talon gets his roam/escape tool, which, at this stage of the game is just "I can help go river to help take scuttle a few seconds faster than the other mid-laner".
Overall, Zed has more damage and range in his kit and takes less time to do said damage which makes him superior in lane. As for Talon's roaming capabilities, it's not hard to avoid him from getting a lead if he roams and gets nothing out of it.
How could you say zed has counterplay, have you seen the trading patterns of zed in lane? He w eqs you from 1200 range and you are completely unable to retaliate, there is no punishment for failing to hit weq, just wait for w again. There is not really a window. If you try to punish him while his w is down he willl just walk away, and if keep pressuring him, he will again throw a shuirken at you from great range. The only time zed ever goes melee on you is when he has whittled you down from 3-4 weqs just ro finish tou off. Laning against zed is highly frustrating and leaves very little counterplay
If the main way to counterplay a champion is to flash, that counterplay may as well not exist for the average player. They're not going to hold flash for Zed, they'll flash too early or too late, etc. Additionally against good Zed players it may not be enough to flash since they'll hold W or be ready with their own flash to follow you, so that adds another layer of knowing what to do after the flash that the average player simply isn't very good at.
Meanwhile as the Zed player it's quite easy to pull off the basic burst patterns. While he's a very skill-expressive champions, you don't actually need much skill to engage on and burst down a squishy champion, especially if that target isn't going to do much to stop your combo. What high skill Zeds are way better at is swapping places with shadows and being slippery. What that means is that in low ranks you'll often see Zeds be very frustrating early on and dominate small skirmishes in mid and bot, but fall off late due to being unable to stay alive in teamfights where you can't just force a kill.
If you think the main counterplay to zed is flash, you're silver.
The main counterplay to zed is stand next to your CC..
Zed's lane phase is frustration so we are buffing is q damage...
Imo the issue with yasuo is the strength of his shield
@RealRiotAugust_ can u do smth about midlane all i get now is trist lb corki syndra hwei trist lb corki hwei trist corki trist lb trist syndra corki MAYBE a windshitter if im lucky
all i feel is pain i just want my zed type of matchups back please i dont care what you do just give me a patch of fun ive been good i deserve it please its my birthday
Had to switch my mains because Zed is banned so often. I've mained Kayn jg for 2 seasons now
The problem with Zed's counterplay is that half the champions don't have counters to zed. Seraphine can burst him and then shield herself. But what are you gonna do if you play a champion who doesn't have access to a way to protect themselves from a telegraphed attack, or the range to punish zed for committing?
The answer was mentioned by August. Healing, shielding and more importantly Armor. To counter zed is quite easy like August mentioned it, I don't understand why people don't get it. He's hard countered by armor and more importantly Zhonyas. The best counterplay to a champion is pointed out often by players experiencing frustration from them. The most vocal majority of Zed players hate Seeker's armguard which you can buy on Seraphine. August also talked about the Qss removal (not in this video) of Zed ult leading to a rise in winrate as Ad carries bought armor instead of Qss, an MR item at that time.
TlDR, like most assassin's, Zed is countered by Armor, since his ult damage is delayed, he's the assassin countered the most by Zhonyas.
@@Minamino_Shuichi yes but if you zhonya then he will just run xd
@@sukinsyn6387 His reason for existing is to kill you. If you Zhonyas, he doesn't kill you. The only thing zed does is delay your item timings as a mage of he forces an early zhonya, as an assassin you just play the skill match up. The only reason why people are frustrated with zed is because they expect an assassin to not be an assassin. They take tp + flash, don't buy armor and expect to occupy the same space as zed. The problem with this viewpoint is that escaping does not equal winning the game, so does mobility. If you look at other Mobas, most mobile assassin's aren't as hated as zed. Zed doesn't win you games by not dying, it's a common trend that shows your elo based on mobility on moba games.
Zed straight up doesn't feel fair to play against when ahead. He jumps around 20 times and even if he misses his Q you still die if you're squishy.
Zed has counterplay in theory. The problem is his execution is 10 times easier than the counterplay
Lots of reasons he's frustrating to play against, he can lane safely with Q from distance and has energy not mana. His minion execute makes farming trivial and allows him to push waves and roam quicker. Honestly i absolutely hate that he's so difficult to punish as he can just dash away from skillshots or ganks and that dash cannot be stopped. At least champions like yasou have to commit to the fight but Zed has such good escape that he doesn't. Glad the ravenous hydra zed is dead as he did a better job at being an artillery mage than actual artillery mages lmao
where does he talk about evelyn
Like 4 min
I think Zed is more frustrating to play against than Talon and even Yasuo because he is so much more safe. You are not going to kill the Zed unless he messes up.
8:17 What is the line of argumentation here? Janna doesnt feel frustrating but she is frustrating and thats why its not bad for a champ to be frustrating?
janna is cringe but she has a low ban rate so the community at large doesn’t particularly care about her
She shifted the frustation to another character. Its not hard to understand bro...
@@cappinocap Hes trying to prove that janna passive isnt frustrating with an example where janna passive is causing a kill = frustration.
That shift of frustration is an illusion cause whats causing the frustration in his example is the janna passive, not the jax
August the type of guy to make literally the most unfun champion in the game to play against and proceeds to tell you its fine because they have a 52% win rate.
zed scales harder, and no armor doesnt really do anything
Zed is frustrating because when he is ahead in lane he has one of the least counterplay in the game, his trade patterns become obnoxious and theres no answer to the range he has, the problem of being frustrated comes from an inability to trade back onto him when hes ahead and getting hit by a shuriken from half the lane away for half your health bar, zed is weak but ahead its disgusting his ult is not the actual problem that frustrates people
The worst mistake they did with zed was accelarate his projectile speed of shadow and shuriken it made them so hard to dodge. Now you need to keep him low on dmg. Also zed is one of the big reason why mages like brand zyra left the midlane. His kit forgive mistake too much.
Zed players can commit war crimes mid combo
It is very slow still, it only gets hard to dodge after lane phase because of E slow scaling skill points.
ding ding ding. been saying this for years.
@@lucasvalbuena his w q combo is no longer dodgeable on reflex like it used to be. you HAVE to be in motion already to dodge it, which means every time zed correctly throws his w q its a 50/50 guessing game.
@@einjharrelracayou mean WEQ
It’s crazy to me people don’t like playing against zed bro is throwing projectiles from multiple positions at once and if he’s not turbo fed you don’t even need to dodge them all to not get OS. Talon just point and clicks you with movement steroids.
Zed builds voltaic sword thing, slows you by 99% lands all abilities because basically can’t move (unless you can dash) and kills you
I swear that item is broken, only reason I can’t deal with him (I play adc)
zed might lwt u have more counterplay, but he has counterplay to ur counterplay atevery stage of the game and for wvery scenario. if talon one shots u, u die. if talon fails to hes probably dead or out of a flash
Also Zed is easy to find for ban phase
buying an item isnt counterplay or at least shouldnt be. it grants a higher margin for error during the counter PLAY.
buying an item against a champion that would have absolutely no possibility of being counterplayed would result in you dying anyway since a champion like that chamption couldnt be killed anyway.
I think Zed has a high ban rate, because his name is 3 characters long and 1 syllable so say, and when you have an opportunity to ban something, "Zed" comes to mind too easily.
I bet if Zed's name was changed to something longer or less memorable, his ban rate would drop a little.
Look riot doesn’t understand that league champions can’t be analyzed via win rate or counters. Champs that are annoying are that way since they encourage anti-gameplay for any amount of time during a game that is unavoidable, that’s why ranged top is so annoying, most of the ranged top laner encourages you to not trade until 2-3 back where you then gradually win in a side lane. The same could be said for zed in a different sense, instead of being anti gameplay he is anti interaction where zed players always had to make the first move making the lane feel unfair and lob sided
Im master tier euw and I love versing all the zeds, yasuos, Katarina's and other otps. The game is always tense, skillful and fun. Playing every game against a hwei or a brand is sucking the soul out of me
If you can outplay it and you die, it means its your fault. If theres no counterplay and you die, its the game's fault. If I've learnt one thing playing this game is that people will never blame themselves, so whenever the only one they can blame is themselves they get more tilted and hate the character more. Zeds fairness and counterplay at every point in the game (unless he got really fed for some reason) makes it so that when people die to him, they have to blame themselves, and to not have to do that, they ban him.
Yeah sure, the ol he missed everything and still died
@@hanshysher6266If a zed misses everything and you still die then you probably were already at like 200 hp lol
This isn’t accurately describing why players are frustrated by zed though. It’s not the fact that he can kill you in a way that’s fair, it’s his ability to effectively play like a mage while blinking around his shadows that’s annoying as fuck. I don’t care that a zed kills me after landing a triple q on me, what’s annoying is when he can zone me from the minion wave for the next 6 seconds with a ridiculously short cd w. It’s the fact that he can zone your carries away from a team fight better than a viktor w or aurelion e can, on a shorter cooldown with more kill pressure all while being even safer than either of them. That’s the issue.
@@kreeperkiller4423 people don't want a 20-0 zed to oneshot them lol
Zed just feels bad to play against no matter what you play bruisers/tank can never catch him cause of his w not having a CD mages/arcs can’t show up on the map or else they get deleted he’s an incredibly safe assassin that can play as a pseudo mage while putting out immense amount of pressure on carries
Does this guy actually play the game? It was only a few months ago when janna was braindead op and everyone was complaining about her
basically: ''I don't like getting outplayed, therefore this champ should never be good''
Anyone who has played zed knows he takes skill, 70% of his burst can be avoided and any decent player will starve him in lane or solo kill him and make him useless for the rest of the game, he is a caster minion pre 6, even someone super weak like yone will destroy him if he walks up, even after 6, if you dodge his shurikens the ult will never do enough dmg
People just refuse to play jax/garen/renekton/malpihte mid against a zed mid
Or even master yi. They pick a mage, who is most likely countered by zed, then proceed to surprise Pikachu face when they, actually, get countered, all while they refuse to buy armor and just keep rushing pure dmg items. It's funny
Maybe players too lazy to buy a pink vs Evelyn shouldn't be the players that the game is balanced around.
well, zeds "skillshots" don't really feel fair to play against. His Q is quite fast and with his W and R he can guarantee it to be close range, with a slow also being in his kit. An experienced Zed player will make these skillshots not feel like skillshots. Often times it feels like flashing is the only option here, which just is miserable to play against imo
As a mage Player, zed has way less counter Play than Talon, cause His w IS not a dash, you cant Interrupt him.
I find this frustrating because he's saying the game is balanced according to the desires of dumb players. Just because people perceive enchanters as less frustrating (even though they exist to be anti fun for the other team) doesn't mean they're right. In his example, current riot would nerf the jax not the janna even though he's not the problem
As a mage player I noticed one thing. Assassins are usually a bit tankier in early game, which is fine because they are melee and they are at higher risk of being damaged. Now the thing is, in case of other assassins like Qiyana or Talon, that tankyness is compensated by them having to go in and stand in my minion wave while we fight. Zed however doesn't need to do that since he trades with shadows so he feels incredibly tanky + most other assassins have a dash as their engage tool which makes them vulnerable to deisengage or other cc abilities while Zed uses only blinks. Not to mention that Zhonyas, being so famous for countering him, doesn't really help unless your whole team is nearby. Just today I played Cassiopeia with RoA, Liyandri and Zhonya meaning I had 900 HP and 50 armor of bonus defensive stats. Completely neutralized his ult with Zhonya and he still oneshoted me right after Zhonya expired.
Zed is at his weakest right after he ults you. He will always show up directly behind you relative to his position before he ulted, so if you use your CC then, you can be the one to burst him instead, even if he initially got you low. So characters like Cass, Ahri, Qiyana, Lux, etc are good matchups into him because of this, or really anyone with instant hard CC.
And what did he have for items?
Noone should be entilted to being unkillable because they built correct items. If zed 1 shot you without his ult even proccing through all the hp items and armor items you had, he must have been fed.
But laning phase is his most vulnerable? He is still a melee champion and you can still bully him out of last hitting creeps. Him trying to farm with Q off CD isnt catch every minion. And every time you see him use a Q, you know youre safe to walk up and keep bullying because thats his entire damage. He trades with his shadow and then its down for the next 20 seconds. Capitalize. Keep track. If you know his W is up and you see him walk up to try to Q a minion, youre safe to walk up and bully. Either you get free poke on him, or you force him to W defensively and bought yourself another 20 seconds. Cass actually does fantastic against him in lane btw. I feel like a lot of mage players for some reason just erase the entire logic of "play around cooldowns" when playing against Zed its so bizarre. And i know this might be hard for you to believe but, when he walks up to try to trade, you can trade back.
@@raulsauceda7392 ? i think you replied to the wrong guy, i personally think zed is trash against anyone that is willing to learn the champ and the matchup
@@user-jb5sc9fe8i Was it to you? I meant to reply to original comment.
I legit never understood the Zed hate, banned in low elo, high skill champ, you can dodge the skill shots and he needs his W to trade or escape, even as Kassidan before level 6 he's actually not hard to go against, a cloth armor, using minions to reduce damage if he actually does it hit a skill shot, I don't get why people dislike going against zed as if any other champ doesn't have the same damage but more consistent
I main Zed, one time he got picked by the enemy and the only other midlaner i played was Vel koz (pre buffs). Because i know how Zed works and what items to buy and how to act in lane i went even on a huge counter lane. The problem is that you guys let every Zed act first and play around his actions. Most people just have a mental block against zed, i myself have a mental block against Le blanc and i find her annoying with no counterplay.
in what elo? emerald? please...
@@sukinsyn6387 D1
I love these comments saying that you can't do anything against Zed in the lane phase because he can just farm with his abilities and back off with his shadow. Imagine being a melee champion in a lane that most champions are ranged and you are expected to be in short range against them all the time lol. These people really don't know how to dodge Zed's abilities, even less how to abuse his cooldowns. I play as and against Zed, and I rather play against a good Zed player who can poke me well and dive me with a full combo and a Durk than playing against a annoying champion who doesn't need to aim their skills like Ahri. I don't think that Ahri is op at this moment by any means, but when it comes to the frustration that people have of playing against Zed I just can't help myself and think about the disparity in effort of those match-ups. Like, you are the one who can just farm safely with you AAs, you probably have a hard CC to set up a gank for your jungler, you can just oush your wave with just one or two abilities and poke at the same time without losing damage. People talk about Zed not having mana, but I wish Zed have it, because they don't know that in order for Zed regain energy to continue a combo he must have hit more than one ability at the same time (like Q with Zed and his W), if you spam your abilities and don't hit them, even if you have the cd to cast them again, you can't, because you run out of energy. Also Muramana is such a good item for ad assassins that its a shame that Zed could not get to use it. I'm all for balacing the game in a way that its fair, interactive and fun for both teams, but its unfortunate that Riot just don't know and don't want to do it (some champions don't show up in pro and soloque for years and they don't do anything, but other ones can't be one patch a little weak that they must buff them so people can play with them). By the way, as a Shen main, I miss the most fun matchup for me, Shen vs Maokai. Oh boy, these two make a very long and intense fight.
Playing against yasuo argument is abit eh, obv if ure playing an immobile mage and all yas has to do is block 1 key ability to beat u ofc u will have a bad time. Renekton on the other hand
W E Q is impossible to dodge without dash, and he also has multiple blinks to counter those who engage on him
How's he yapping so much about League while playing Elden Ring
Comment section full of bad players kekw
no matter how many times i watch this video , i still think that this 'strat' is one of the reasons some people are hard stuck iron . the core aspects of a game ,no matter the genre , are skills and knowledge with the latter being more important . If you eliminate the chance to research and actually learn how to play the game , how are players supposed to get out of iron ???
as a demonstration to how bad and braindead this 'strat' is ,we can go to the Briar release ...mf didin't read that her E cancels her berserk state and thus her winrate plummeted so hard they insta buffed her . afterwards ,players realised the importance of briar's E and with(unnecessary) buffs she became ultra giga broken and way too over tuned they hard to nerf her .truly disgusting!
Zed is frustrated because the only thing League players hate more than being killed is being styled on.
Do you know what would alleviate 90% if people's problems with balance in league?
If every character had a mana pool.
Comments still just as delusional as ever, try to rank up using zed rn and we'll see if he "isn't skillful."
Statistics don't matter, riot dev explaining everything in high detail doesn't matter, to a league player who needs to protect their ego and pride, admitting anything is out of the option.
For me zed is frustrating because:
1) Too low cd on q. With his INCREDIBLE mobility u just dont have a space to punish him. Until he use w ofc, but he doesnt need use w for farm. So he like always can fight with u, always can trade with u. Talon/Fizz/Qiyana not the same they must use battle spell for farm so have window to free harass them if play bad.
2) Stupid itemization. After 0 skill ravenous aka w-q wave gone Zed got Cyclosword which even more stupid and provade even more unskilled gameplay just from other side.
build armor :D
@6:20 I actually disagree with this to a certain extent. You can argue that yasuo has more counterplay than malphite, but that's only in the hands of an inexperienced yasuo player. Same goes for Zed. Zed actually has almost no counterplay when piloted correctly. His ult has counterplay, yes, but his overall playstyle does not. He has one of the highest agencies in the game. He's an assassin that can play like an artillery mage with no mana, with mobility, that can also go melee range to kill you. His only weakness is his lackluster damage in the early game. Sure you can dodge zed's damage in some cases.... but it usually doesn't actually mean much. He doesn't need to commit much in order to actually kill you in a 1v1 scenario, and a good zed won't ult you until it's effectively guaranteed.
Yasuo works in a similar way. He has so much agency that he gets to pick his fights, not you as the opponent. So even if he can't win most of them, that doesn't matter. He can dash around and poke and prod until he lands his knockup, at which point he can just win the all in or keep kiting and harrassing, or just run you down if he's stronger. In most cases if you beat a yasuo it's because the yasuo messed up, not you. Same goes for zed. That's not a satisfying feeling. So if you die, it's frustrating, if they die, it's whatever.
The counterplay means that yea, you can win that fight against yasuo or zed, but unless the pilots are bad you won't actually be able to take advantage of that in a lot of scenarios. Of course some other very high agency champions can, but the majority of players don't have the capability to capitalize on that, and I believe it's more difficult to capitalize on zed/yasuo's weakness than it is to be a yasuo/zed player and capitalize on their strengths.
Dodge shurikens dumbass
@robertbauerle5592 yasuo is very oppressive against anything that is ranged but extremely weak imo against bruisers they destroy him so hard, zed on the other hand is weak vs cc so if your team decides to go 5 squishies with 0 cc he's gonna have a field day, his poke is also weak in lane if you position behind your wave since his Q damage drops when hitting 1st target, so as long as you don't give him a lead he will never be strong (yasuo will always be strong in isolation so avoid him or call your jgler)
I really don't understand how people think "just bait yasuo's WW" or "just make sure zed never ults you" is decent counterplay. Like, you have to count on the yasuo for using his WW incorrectly, and for the your teammates to ALWAYS have vision where zed could flank from. Counterplay? Really?
Tbh I just dont like zed bcuz he can play so safe. And back when serylda and bc were stackable there was no beating him late game
All trolls.
Zed is a melee Champion with pokes.
Fizz is also melee with all ins.
Mages are ranged with reliable cooldowns.
Theyre both squishy.
Main difference is no cc. All damage. Offers nothing to teammates. These characters are selfish.
Not only that they are predictable. Includies talon, kat and other sins.
rather this then something brain-dead like Garen.
I don't care if Zed is good or not. I will not play against this champion and I don't care. I will not give you that satisfaction
Skill issue
So what he's saying at the beginning is that even though they do the same thing, because Zed gets to emote after he deserves to be weaker... Maybe we shouldn't balance the game around how people feel...
I dont know...Zed is one of the 3 or 4 Assassins that have actually counterplay. I really like playing vs Zed mid. Its fun. To me its much more annoying to play vs sth Like talon, Diana, kayn,...that just point and clicks you from 100 to 0. It just feels "unskilled" if they get you.
We need more assassins like Zed. Nowdays 80% of assassins just click on you
August is wrong. It isn't because Zed's counterplay can't be perceived, it's because it's not meaningful. If rengar doesn't oneshot you he dies. If Zed doesn't oneshot you, he teleports twice and runs away. A good zed cannot die, and it's fucking shit to play against.
standing next to your cc and build armor. Also if you didnt get one shot then zed is not a problem anymore no? what's he gonna do. go in again XD?
You will never interact with a good zed
Thats the worst analogy every champ has their outplay potential and champs like yas and zed have a cleaner outplay potential but are tuned down more than lets say seraphine just cuz she takes longer to outplay you and this is all because they went ahead with game duration changes
Zed doesn’t really have that much counterplay for most of the roster. If you have no mobility and no cc, and he picks up a kill because your jungler sprints an invade while you’re on reset, then your lane is basically over.
@@Ghosta085 yes thats why there is champ select thats why its called mastering the game thats why league became popular originally because it felt like chess but with apm now its lets play a game and hope our teamates are good but lets talk about how zed doesnt have counterplay and blame players for learning and mastering the champ they play because were all old people
@@Ghosta085 needless i remind you how they removed that counterplay from the game
@MrHighfiveit you mean the double stopwatch go talon E yourself off a building zed counterplay? Yeah, fun times. It was deleted because it was the worst mechanic in the game, buying 5 seconds in league is enough for your full team to group on you that's not counterplay that's unplayable for assassins
@@rafikzebboudj543 lol no thats degen riot era im talking qss era where you had toi actually time it properly and spend a slot for a good item
talon is also just a bad champ, he autoloses almost every lane and needs walls to reach the adc. zed can flash w r you and you are dead
Malphite and counterplay yea sure
Ok so basically ppl are too bad to dodge skill shot so it’s better to get point-and-click-stun-face-planted to wall into one shot by qiyana where the only counterplay u have is to flash the milli-second the animation plays. Ok, so zed mains your champ is nerfed bcz of silvers, unlucky.
Joke aside, zed is degenerate when he can just one shot wave and perma roam for free, a thing that talon used to do in the past but got nerfed for obvious reasons.
my personal gripe with zed is how safe he is in lane with w and i feel like the only reason its even somewhat hard to dodge his q is the usual insta e w that just slows u so the q is easier to hit
I think it's worth commenting that part of what makes a lot of the champs; like zed, yasuo, Yone(when he is strong), zeri, shaco, lilia, and also talon... Is that it requires not only a depth of knowledge about that champs unique abilities and what counters their abilities, but also requires the opposing player to be piloting a champ with a kit that can sufficiently keep up, and for the opposing player to have the reaction speeds, hardware, and mechanical skill expression necessary to outplay. Plus on older champs you might be heavily reliant on summoner spells just to match a newer champions basic abilitym
Malphite has clear strengths and weaknesses, Yone and zed do not. There is less game knowledge required to outplay a Malphite, and he has a more limited set of actions he can take against you.
So I think a large part of it is that when the enemy Champs has significantly more agency than you do, that makes them very frustrating to deal with.
too much power in his w + q spam its just annoying as fuck. Should make it so his Q does very little damage but applies a mark, and when zed auto attacks or hits the target with his E it procs the mark
I assure you. Nobody enjoys playing against yasuo
I play akali and yasuo’s probably one of the more fun and skill expressive matchups for me
I play irelia and I like playing vs yasuo because I can dash around too :D
Darius and sett would disagree
pick renekton and watch how they can't play at all
Pick Jax
No. It's because zed can counterplay YOU while talon is still an assassin.
Zed pokes indefinetly kills you and NEVER has to all in to do it. And even if he does he didn't cause he can teleport away.
No shit an assassin assassins people... even though they do it too well and the class SHOULDN'T be consistent and, instead, counterpicks to squishy comps but still...
Zed is kinda like what Garen is for Fighters (on the receiving end. I'm not comparing skill to pull it off even though Zed isn't the hardest champ himself)
I think that the problem with zed is that a good zed is almost unbeatable. We all have had these games where a zed just 1v5d you're entire team on a loop and you felt completely powerless and that was the one we remember.
If you look at talon, yes he can oneshot even easier when fed and there is even less you can do about. But when you know there was nothing no one can do about it, it somehow feels less bad, then when you see your entire team miss all their skillshots and cc while zed 1shots you and then just teleports out on repeat.
hes not as insanely hard to play against as old hydra zed. That shit is incredibly stupid
Zed "all ins you" and then isn't near you.
Zed wave clears and pokes from further than basically anyone else can without commiting their ults.
Zed is incredibly annoying.
I can agree with the first and last points but the second point is just somewhat ignorant. He can't clear a wave without being close to it anymore (he doesn't have ravenous anymore) and unless you're a melee champ you are able to poke him back if he does WEQ. If he's just doing WQ from outside of your range it does piss poor damage early and if it passes through a minion it does like 40% less damage so it just tickles you
idk if you cant outpush early game zed as mages youre playing your champs wrong
@@cappinocap when you are trying to not die you don't outpush the person you are trying to not die to.
I think assassins should be forced to commit. That doesn’t mean they should’t have a way to escape after but the escape should be conditional and skill based. Like as much people shit on ekko ult for being a get outta jail free card I think it’s genuinely very well designed. It’s his only escape, it’s on a long cooldown and if you just use it to escape, you’re missing out on a large portion of ekko’s damage. Character’s like zed or leblanc that don’t really have to commit divulge from the rest of the cast in a very obnoxious way. I don’t think either of these champs should be changed because they’re very skill expressive and fun to play, but they should avoid that type of assassin design in the future.
the issue with zed is he is an assassin, with all the strengths of being an assassin, but also has the neutral game of a control mage. the dude plays the game from 1600 range until you fall into kill range, which is only 60-70% hp mind you.
But that isnt even everything. Ad assassins in agregate have an item to negate ANY weaknesses they might have.
Using this Zed example, his weakness is that he is very cooldown gated................... so every item he builds has CDR on it.
Qiyana is weak into anything with waveclear, it stops her from roaming............ so she rushes profane hydra, and has waveclear out her ass on no real cooldown.
How about a jungle assassin? well nocturn is super ultimate reliant, so he has axium arc rush to cover that.
how about the turbo rare support assassin pyke? his biggest weakness is vision, cause it shuts off his "i win every trade" passive. so he spends TWO THOUSANDS SIX HUNDRED GOLD on umbral glaive and deletes that weakness.
I mean christ, where is my "mages blow ass into anything with mobility" solution item?
Where is my "everything 0.3 hits me" solution item for adcs?
Where is the "resistances mean nothing in league 2024" solution item for tanks?
onto the frustating champion design portion. you do realize there is an inbetween from "old janna passive being insane but not as noticed" and Skarner LITTERALY afk running people down from full hp under their own inhib turrets while t1 turret is still up. There IS an inbetween.
Not to mention we DO have new champions who aren't super frustrating. Vex is a PERFECT example when she isnt played into anythign 200 years, in which case, they deserve to deal with what they tried to force everyone else to deal with. Millio is a good example. Renata is a good example.
you know what is an example of the frustrating part of the cast? Naafiri who 900 range point and click instant kills squishies. or Briar who flat out afk runs people down and has a low cd dash that goes over walls. or bel'veth who just dashes 9000000 times in a fight.
You lost all the credibility after saying janna is good champ design and not frustrating to play against
League community are just boreline mental flatliners. You dodge Zed q, Zed does no damage. Unless Zed is fed it has to hit multiple skill shots in an all-in to kill.
And if it is fed, its because the zed hit multiple skill shots repeatedly to get that kill.
In the first levels he does non existant damage with his Qs or Es, the moment that mf grabs a pickaxe he does a lot more damage with a single non commited combo than a Vladimir with 60 ap
Nice, what about farming? Sustain? Hitting the damn Q? Lane Zed is bad, he scales well.
@@lucasvalbuenazed has the safest lane for an assassin.
without some defensive or evasion tool, u cant dodge q when slowed by his e
@@broidkanymore-zc4lt Do me a favour, choose a mid lane champ, type that champ vs zed challenger on youtube. Watch how they will all be able to dodge the Q in lane after getting slowed.
Also as long as you're behind 1 minion, the Q damage is reduced, also the shadow Q you can get hit by 1 of those it doesn't do enough.
Unless Zed is EXTREMELY fed, Zed needs to land MULTIPLE skill shots to kill.
Uhmmmm AKALI YONE HELLOOOO
Zed is the easiest champ to play against if ur good at the game
yes but 95% of players dont want to be esport players