I noticed with PizzaApp that it suggests a lot of yeast, so I read online to plug in your RT three to four degrees higher than what it actually is, and it’s a bit more accurate. I’ve been doing that for about a year with good results. As for the balls being flat, could it be the balling technique? Maybe they weren’t balled tight enough or sealed properly, and the air escaped? Just a thought. Keep it up-love your videos!
Thanks for the feedback. I actually aim for a few degrees lower. My room is usually around 21c but overnight it drops. I have a video where I used a temperature logger over 24 hours and the avg temp was just 18c. So that's what I set the app to. If anything I sometimes knock an hour off the app. Cook at 6pm but tell the app it's 5pm when I want the dough. The flat issue is something new that I've had with that flour. Made plenty of pizza without that issue before. Thanks for watching and your comments 👍
When I use ady I prove it in water at around 95f with a bit of sugar or honey for it to feed off and to froth up, when I use idy I use the method you used ! Just a thought
Hi, we are all trying to create the best pizza dough and importantly be able to reproduce it, you could try doing two sets of dough using same technique apart from the yeast methods. Have you tried the MD UNIQUA from your favourite supplier? can only find it in 25 k bags though
Yes that would be interesting to try. I can only find 25kg bags too unfortunately. I have flour all over the place at the moment, but I have been buying the new 15kg and 10kg bags. Much better for people at home.
@@PizzaRamblings Hi yes can only agree I bought 25k of Caputo blue and only used two thirds and had to discard rest, I read on a thread somewhere regarding cooking mushrooms, I add nothing to the pan only the mushrooms and sweat the water out, I urge you to try this method the taste of mushrooms are far superior in my opinion
Hello. I know I’m late into the game as they say and hopefully you’ve fixed your problem but Have you tried doing a 20-21h bulk then ball up the remainder of the time to proof ? Even if the flour doesn’t like the long fermentation when you ball you’re giving it back strength.
I have pretty much got things good at the moment, I was always doing a 18hr bulk and 6 HR ball. I could try your suggestion. At the moment I've been short on time and doing 6 hour, 3 bulk and 3 balled. It's been pretty good dough to handle. The other thing is I've switched from fresh yeast to active dry and it's probably that that's made the big difference. Cheers 👍
Whereas instant yeast is added directly into the flour (as you do here) active dry yeast needs to be proved before using - dissolving in warm (35-40C) water (with a bit of sugar or honey) then resting until it begins to bubble .. After which it can combined with the water, into which the flour can be gradually added, and then the salt (with some reserved water) .. Here you added the ADY directly to the flour, then kept it cool with ice water .. Although the dough gained some warmth from kneading, it never really got into the proper temperature range required to activate it, and most likely fermentation never got going .. I would also be curious at what temperatures you bulk fermented and final proofed the dough after shaping? The key objective being to maintain some level of fermentation activity to enable flavor development, while making sure there are sufficient unfermented sugars left in the dough to feed the final stage of fermentation and gas production when the dough hits the oven ..
Thanks for a very interesting reply. I've never thought of it like that. I tend to hit 24c to 25c with the mix temp and then over the 24hr the room fluctuates between 16 over night and 21 during the day. I bought a temperature logger and that gave me an average of 19, but I set Pizzaapp to 18c for good measure. The dough spends bulk and the final prove in those temperatures. The problem I'm having seems to be with this flour, it doesn't like 24hr fermentations. Yesterday I did a hand made batch same flour same yeast over 8 hour and the ball was full of gas, the dough was quite relaxed too. Thanks for a great reply 👍
@@PizzaRamblings Every flour is different in a couple of key ways .. the 'wet gluten content' (how much water the amount of available gluten is able to bind out of the total water amount) which affects the hydration required to achieve the dough characteristics you are looking for .. and the glutenin to gliadin ratio which dictates the balance of elasticity and extensibility .. It is the "baker's craft" to know how to balance these and other variables (time, temperature, leavening method and handling techniques) to achieve desired characteristics in the dough and optimal quality in the final product .. While it's not always easy to tell from video clips, when it came time for you to shape your dough balls into pies, the dough didn't appear lively, and looked a little tight to me .. You mentioned you achieved reasonable gas development during bulk, but not during final proof .. So the first thing I would look to do is to try and final proof at a slightly higher temp (2-3C warmer), to move the final fermentation along faster .. You might also think about increasing the hydration by 1-2%, and the salt to a more typical 2% (at 3% your salt is going to slow down fermentation as well as tighten the dough) ..
@@PizzaRamblings Since you mention you had success with the same flour/same yeast in an 8hr fermentation, I am curious if/how your formula, temps/time of day were the same, or may have been different ??
@@PizzaRamblings I checked out the yeast you are using .. although the product labelling doesn't explicitly say as much, the Caputo Lievito appears to be 'instant yeast' not 'active dry yeast' (on the Caputo website it says "just a third will do" which is actually the standard formula for converting from fresh to instant dry yeast .. So, yes, as you were, no proofing of the yeast is required before hand, and should be mixed with the flour before mixing them both with the water and then the salt .. although, one thing you might consider is to hold back 5-10% of the water, to dissolve the salt in .. to then mix into the dough once the flour has had a chance to fully hydrate, the gluten to form, and the yeast to begin fermentation ..
Vito said during the process it gets gassy and tall, but further fermentation makes it flat. But he says thats what we want for real taste. Try making the pizza from mid process of the dough when it is aggressively puffed. Then compare its taste with 2nd one that is flattened after completing 24 hours.
The main issue right now is this flour seems unreliable… My concern is that I heard there is issues with flour quality in a few large brands right now… including Caputo… not the best quality at present, wonder if we are getting some of this translate to other brands?
Hiya, enjoying your content for a while now :))). Just wondering, how do you store the mozzarella that you bulk buy? Do you freeze in portions and thaw for use. What do you do with any left overs if you have any?? cheers
Hi, I buy in 1kg bags and freeze the whole bag. When I need some I bang the bag on worktop a it breaks up a treat. If there is any leftover we pick at it for a day or so 😉 thanks for watching and your comments. Cheers 👍
The amount of yeast for a 24 hour RT fermentation are tiny, since there is so much time to rise at a nice temp for the yeast. Since the dough gets deflated during balling, that tiny bit of yeast might not have enough power to re-rise the dough balls within a couple of hours. You could try to up the amount of yeast (maybe use a larger bowl if it grows a lot) cause IMO there is no real downside to using a bit more yeast other than the dough rising a bit more. Or you could try ditching the bulk proofing and balling the dough right away and see if the balls get puffier. Love your videos!
Thanks for the nice comment 👍 I get what your saying, but I don't seem to have this issue with other flour with the same process, but you could be right. The only thing different from normal is Im using active dry yeast as I'm out of fresh. It could be that perhaps.
Hi Carlo! I don't think it works like that. Yeast grows and multiplies throughout the dough. A small initial amount does not imply reduced potential at later stages as long as the proper amount is used for a given time and temperature.
Pizza Ramblings. Can you please advise what should I do to get the pizza dough very airy and fluffy. When I look at you dough balls they look very very nice extremely soft and filled with so much gas. I want to make my dough the same way but I don't get it. I don't have dough mixer at all I am doing it all by hands. I follow poolish style with 65 to 67% hydration and 5grms Instant dry yeast. But my dough never look like yours. Dose the spiral dough mixer make a big difference in fluffiness of the dough? I really need to understand this please help me and advise if I am doing something wrong. Thank you very much.
Hi there, I use the pizzapp to set the number of dough balls I want and the weight. Just start with a simple dough. Try an 8 hour fermentation at room temperature, if your room temperature is 21 then I tend to put a couple of degrees less so 19c. Use a good 00 flour, sea salt, any yeast (select the one you have in the app). Aim for 62% hydration to start. Mix the ingredients in your bowl, once the water is absorbed add the salt. Mix more then leave it for 10 mins covered. Repeat this 2 to 3 times. Then kneed the dough and build the gluten, rest for ten mins covered. Repeat this again 2 to 3 times. Once the dough is smooth and it bounces back when you press on it, then it’s ready. Bulk ferment for 4 hours then ball and leave for 4 plus hours. Ensure your yeast is good. If that’s not tip top then you won’t get the results you want. I’ve done this method many times without a spiral mixer. Some of my early videos are where I’ve hand kneeled the dough might be worth watching. Good luck.
I wonder if it has any thing to do with final dough temp… there wasn’t much you could do as it was breaking in you and needed more mixing… could you have cooled the dough more before mixing to allow longer mix? Also might be worth trying a 12 and 18 hour with this to compare because maybe this just does not like 24 hour fermentation as you said…. I’d be shocked though as 24 hour is the gold standard really!
In not sure what the issue is you could be right. All I know is that other flours do not seem to have this issue. As I say, I hand made a few 6 and 8 hour batches and they seemed fine. I'm on active dry yeast instead of fresh which could be related.....
yes that’s my biggest problem with high hydration (72%) dough, that the balls become to flat and thin quickly (use a Philips 60 euro mixer, works well but possibly it’s temperature or quality of flour). Learned a lot from your channel. Thank you for your channel!
Been using this flour myself a lot recently and I do love its texture, have done 62% 65% Direct (lovely). I also did 70%💧 with 35% poolish twice, the first time when balled up they flattened out quite a bit which was annoying, similar to the video, the second time though I mixed the dough and then let it proof in bulk for 1 hour but did 3 stretch and folds 15 mins apart in the hour... did the job really well, they held their shape when balled up perfectly. No idea if this will help as you've got the Famag which I can imagine cancels out the need for the stretch and fold but its an idea haha. Take it easy man, love your videos and look forward to the next one! 😎 🍕
@@PizzaRamblings The first time around it was not playing ball at all, very sloppy and only managed to get 2 out of 5 without a hole. That was just direct dough mind, hand mixed. Second time I used poolish and a kitchen aid with 3 stretch and folds in the bulk proof, baked a few seconds longer at the lower 390/400c and they all came out beautiful. I can imagine the poolish helped as well with the strength in some way. You've done 80% with other flours!... I wouldn't dare try 80% haha so you'll do it no problem, I look forward to seeing it.
P.R. - has to be flour. Toss the bag and get a new one, try again. I had this happen with a 55 lb bag of Caputo blue I bought. Made the most fragile pizzas no matter what I did. Might be a QC problem? Dunno. Bummer!
good idea about the dough, but the stretching needs to leave the base much thinner and the filling is very american and not a bit Italian, it's a pizza not a pie
Pizzas mysteries! Sometimes it works, sometimes not...🤷 Thanks for your experiences🙏 it's always interesting!
Hi, great vid as always, for a instant read thermometer I use a thermapen they excellent
Thanks for the nice feedback 👍Yes, I've had them recommended before. Plenty on eBay for around 35 quid. I'll be getting one soon.
good to have you back!
Haha cheers, been crazy busy. I'll try and keep it up 👍
I noticed with PizzaApp that it suggests a lot of yeast, so I read online to plug in your RT three to four degrees higher than what it actually is, and it’s a bit more accurate. I’ve been doing that for about a year with good results.
As for the balls being flat, could it be the balling technique? Maybe they weren’t balled tight enough or sealed properly, and the air escaped? Just a thought. Keep it up-love your videos!
Thanks for the feedback. I actually aim for a few degrees lower. My room is usually around 21c but overnight it drops. I have a video where I used a temperature logger over 24 hours and the avg temp was just 18c. So that's what I set the app to. If anything I sometimes knock an hour off the app. Cook at 6pm but tell the app it's 5pm when I want the dough.
The flat issue is something new that I've had with that flour. Made plenty of pizza without that issue before.
Thanks for watching and your comments 👍
When I use ady I prove it in water at around 95f with a bit of sugar or honey for it to feed off and to froth up, when I use idy I use the method you used ! Just a thought
Thanks, that’s very interesting. I have used honey with my sourdough in the past to give it a boost.
Hi, we are all trying to create the best pizza dough and importantly be able to reproduce it, you could try doing two sets of dough using same technique apart from the yeast methods. Have you tried the MD UNIQUA from your favourite supplier? can only find it in 25 k bags though
Yes that would be interesting to try. I can only find 25kg bags too unfortunately. I have flour all over the place at the moment, but I have been buying the new 15kg and 10kg bags. Much better for people at home.
@@PizzaRamblings Hi yes can only agree I bought 25k of Caputo blue and only used two thirds and had to discard rest, I read on a thread somewhere regarding cooking mushrooms, I add nothing to the pan only the mushrooms and sweat the water out, I urge you to try this method the taste of mushrooms are far superior in my opinion
@@zaphodbeeblebrox4897 ooh thanks I will try that 👍
Hello. I know I’m late into the game as they say and hopefully you’ve fixed your problem but Have you tried doing a 20-21h bulk then ball up the remainder of the time to proof ? Even if the flour doesn’t like the long fermentation when you ball you’re giving it back strength.
I have pretty much got things good at the moment, I was always doing a 18hr bulk and 6 HR ball. I could try your suggestion. At the moment I've been short on time and doing 6 hour, 3 bulk and 3 balled. It's been pretty good dough to handle. The other thing is I've switched from fresh yeast to active dry and it's probably that that's made the big difference. Cheers 👍
@@PizzaRamblings glad to hear that 👍👍
Whereas instant yeast is added directly into the flour (as you do here) active dry yeast needs to be proved before using - dissolving in warm (35-40C) water (with a bit of sugar or honey) then resting until it begins to bubble .. After which it can combined with the water, into which the flour can be gradually added, and then the salt (with some reserved water) .. Here you added the ADY directly to the flour, then kept it cool with ice water .. Although the dough gained some warmth from kneading, it never really got into the proper temperature range required to activate it, and most likely fermentation never got going .. I would also be curious at what temperatures you bulk fermented and final proofed the dough after shaping? The key objective being to maintain some level of fermentation activity to enable flavor development, while making sure there are sufficient unfermented sugars left in the dough to feed the final stage of fermentation and gas production when the dough hits the oven ..
Thanks for a very interesting reply. I've never thought of it like that. I tend to hit 24c to 25c with the mix temp and then over the 24hr the room fluctuates between 16 over night and 21 during the day. I bought a temperature logger and that gave me an average of 19, but I set Pizzaapp to 18c for good measure. The dough spends bulk and the final prove in those temperatures.
The problem I'm having seems to be with this flour, it doesn't like 24hr fermentations. Yesterday I did a hand made batch same flour same yeast over 8 hour and the ball was full of gas, the dough was quite relaxed too.
Thanks for a great reply 👍
@@PizzaRamblings Every flour is different in a couple of key ways .. the 'wet gluten content' (how much water the amount of available gluten is able to bind out of the total water amount) which affects the hydration required to achieve the dough characteristics you are looking for .. and the glutenin to gliadin ratio which dictates the balance of elasticity and extensibility .. It is the "baker's craft" to know how to balance these and other variables (time, temperature, leavening method and handling techniques) to achieve desired characteristics in the dough and optimal quality in the final product .. While it's not always easy to tell from video clips, when it came time for you to shape your dough balls into pies, the dough didn't appear lively, and looked a little tight to me .. You mentioned you achieved reasonable gas development during bulk, but not during final proof .. So the first thing I would look to do is to try and final proof at a slightly higher temp (2-3C warmer), to move the final fermentation along faster .. You might also think about increasing the hydration by 1-2%, and the salt to a more typical 2% (at 3% your salt is going to slow down fermentation as well as tighten the dough) ..
@@PizzaRamblings Since you mention you had success with the same flour/same yeast in an 8hr fermentation, I am curious if/how your formula, temps/time of day were the same, or may have been different ??
@@PizzaRamblings I checked out the yeast you are using .. although the product labelling doesn't explicitly say as much, the Caputo Lievito appears to be 'instant yeast' not 'active dry yeast' (on the Caputo website it says "just a third will do" which is actually the standard formula for converting from fresh to instant dry yeast .. So, yes, as you were, no proofing of the yeast is required before hand, and should be mixed with the flour before mixing them both with the water and then the salt .. although, one thing you might consider is to hold back 5-10% of the water, to dissolve the salt in .. to then mix into the dough once the flour has had a chance to fully hydrate, the gluten to form, and the yeast to begin fermentation ..
@@RGS61 thanks very much for your help. Ive never dissolved the salt in the water before so I will give that a try. 👍
Vito said during the process it gets gassy and tall, but further fermentation makes it flat. But he says thats what we want for real taste.
Try making the pizza from mid process of the dough when it is aggressively puffed. Then compare its taste with 2nd one that is flattened after completing 24 hours.
The main issue right now is this flour seems unreliable…
My concern is that I heard there is issues with flour quality in a few large brands right now… including Caputo… not the best quality at present, wonder if we are getting some of this translate to other brands?
Ohh I didn't think of that. Good thinking.
Hiya, enjoying your content for a while now :))). Just wondering, how do you store the mozzarella that you bulk buy? Do you freeze in portions and thaw for use. What do you do with any left overs if you have any?? cheers
Hi, I buy in 1kg bags and freeze the whole bag. When I need some I bang the bag on worktop a it breaks up a treat. If there is any leftover we pick at it for a day or so 😉 thanks for watching and your comments. Cheers 👍
The amount of yeast for a 24 hour RT fermentation are tiny, since there is so much time to rise at a nice temp for the yeast. Since the dough gets deflated during balling, that tiny bit of yeast might not have enough power to re-rise the dough balls within a couple of hours. You could try to up the amount of yeast (maybe use a larger bowl if it grows a lot) cause IMO there is no real downside to using a bit more yeast other than the dough rising a bit more. Or you could try ditching the bulk proofing and balling the dough right away and see if the balls get puffier.
Love your videos!
Thanks for the nice comment 👍 I get what your saying, but I don't seem to have this issue with other flour with the same process, but you could be right. The only thing different from normal is Im using active dry yeast as I'm out of fresh. It could be that perhaps.
Hi Carlo!
I don't think it works like that. Yeast grows and multiplies throughout the dough. A small initial amount does not imply reduced potential at later stages as long as the proper amount is used for a given time and temperature.
Good point 👍
Pizza Ramblings. Can you please advise what should I do to get the pizza dough very airy and fluffy. When I look at you dough balls they look very very nice extremely soft and filled with so much gas. I want to make my dough the same way but I don't get it. I don't have dough mixer at all I am doing it all by hands. I follow poolish style with 65 to 67% hydration and 5grms Instant dry yeast. But my dough never look like yours. Dose the spiral dough mixer make a big difference in fluffiness of the dough? I really need to understand this please help me and advise if I am doing something wrong. Thank you very much.
Hi there, I use the pizzapp to set the number of dough balls I want and the weight. Just start with a simple dough. Try an 8 hour fermentation at room temperature, if your room temperature is 21 then I tend to put a couple of degrees less so 19c. Use a good 00 flour, sea salt, any yeast (select the one you have in the app). Aim for 62% hydration to start. Mix the ingredients in your bowl, once the water is absorbed add the salt. Mix more then leave it for 10 mins covered. Repeat this 2 to 3 times. Then kneed the dough and build the gluten, rest for ten mins covered. Repeat this again 2 to 3 times. Once the dough is smooth and it bounces back when you press on it, then it’s ready. Bulk ferment for 4 hours then ball and leave for 4 plus hours.
Ensure your yeast is good. If that’s not tip top then you won’t get the results you want. I’ve done this method many times without a spiral mixer. Some of my early videos are where I’ve hand kneeled the dough might be worth watching. Good luck.
@@PizzaRamblings thank you very much. Will try this method now.
What is your dough mixer called ? Great video by the way 👍
Hi and thanks. It's a famag im5s high hydration model.
@@PizzaRamblings thank you. 👍
I wonder if it has any thing to do with final dough temp… there wasn’t much you could do as it was breaking in you and needed more mixing… could you have cooled the dough more before mixing to allow longer mix?
Also might be worth trying a 12 and 18 hour with this to compare because maybe this just does not like 24 hour fermentation as you said….
I’d be shocked though as 24 hour is the gold standard really!
In not sure what the issue is you could be right. All I know is that other flours do not seem to have this issue. As I say, I hand made a few 6 and 8 hour batches and they seemed fine. I'm on active dry yeast instead of fresh which could be related.....
could it be, this dough needed a higher hydration?
No, this stuff is a nightmare above 65%.
yes that’s my biggest problem with high hydration (72%) dough, that the balls become to flat and thin quickly (use a Philips 60 euro mixer, works well but possibly it’s temperature or quality of flour). Learned a lot from your channel. Thank you for your channel!
You make always good and nice pizza.... 👍👍👍I have question for you??
Shoot
@@PizzaRamblings is possibe to us lava stone in the oven...for pizza
Mmm sorry that's something I don't have any experience with. Sorry I can't help with this one.
@@PizzaRamblings ok.... no problem
Been using this flour myself a lot recently and I do love its texture, have done 62% 65% Direct (lovely). I also did 70%💧 with 35% poolish twice, the first time when balled up they flattened out quite a bit which was annoying, similar to the video, the second time though I mixed the dough and then let it proof in bulk for 1 hour but did 3 stretch and folds 15 mins apart in the hour... did the job really well, they held their shape when balled up perfectly. No idea if this will help as you've got the Famag which I can imagine cancels out the need for the stretch and fold but its an idea haha.
Take it easy man, love your videos and look forward to the next one! 😎 🍕
Thanks for the comments 👍 I'm interested in the 70% was it a difficult customer? On V1.0 that would be slop.
@@PizzaRamblings The first time around it was not playing ball at all, very sloppy and only managed to get 2 out of 5 without a hole. That was just direct dough mind, hand mixed. Second time I used poolish and a kitchen aid with 3 stretch and folds in the bulk proof, baked a few seconds longer at the lower 390/400c and they all came out beautiful. I can imagine the poolish helped as well with the strength in some way. You've done 80% with other flours!... I wouldn't dare try 80% haha so you'll do it no problem, I look forward to seeing it.
Haha no chance, I'm not going there lol
I do 70% with giovanna flour regularly. I mix it by hand. The balls always go flat, but I reball them and then they’re perfect.
P.R. - has to be flour. Toss the bag and get a new one, try again. I had this happen with a 55 lb bag of Caputo blue I bought. Made the most fragile pizzas no matter what I did. Might be a QC problem? Dunno. Bummer!
Yes, someone else said it could be the flour. I'll get a fresh bag, that's a good call. Seems that there are duff bags here and there. Cheers 👍👍👍
They seem to be over proofed.
Possible, I normally use fresh yeast but used ADY recently as I'm our of fresh. I did follow Pizzaapp to the word 🤷♂️
Hello buddy you like better? Than le5stagoini
Le5 superiore is my favourite flower, I'm struggling to get it these days. It's super flexible with regards to hydration. Cheers
@@PizzaRamblings seems like is getting sold out every where
Fresh yeast Polish shop
Good idea 👍
Una bella zucca.
good idea about the dough, but the stretching needs to leave the base much thinner and the filling is very american and not a bit Italian, it's a pizza not a pie
Agreed, I did over top. 👍