Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.” the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10). the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.” the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27). Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church. So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
As a new catholic from Islam it was shocking to see how Protestants treat saints, prophets, and Mary, who is in fact the mother of God and queen of heaven. There is no mistaking it. Almost every criticism I have to defend from my Muslim community is heresies committed by prots and I have to explain how they defected from Christ's church to invent there own man made traditions and self serving interpretations. The silver lining is it has forced me into endless hours of research and it's deepened my faith exponentially.
This is why i don’t think it’s Mary. I feel The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. It’s also helpful to remember the exegetical placement of John’s intention with revelation. John is an exiled apostle on a guarded island whose outgoing letters are censored. To read Revelation extremely literally, or plainly would be a mistake. Please Keep that in mind here. First, let me poke the biggest hole using catholic theology in context. Catholic theology says that Marry gave birth painlessly to Jesus and that she remains a virgin afterwards. How could that be possible in light of Revelation 12:2? “She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.” in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.” the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10). the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.” the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27). Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church. So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This allowed the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome thus cutting off the Jews by means of their destruction. This is a loving criticism, not a damning anger lashing outburst. Revelation within itself shows you history fulfilled, and how the church continued after Jerusalem fell but you can’t know that unless you read the entire Tanakh.
I feel so happy for you and yes indeed these objections just deepens our faith as we go deeper into research and find out we are indeed in the right place.
@HillbillyBlack Thank you for responding. I really enjoyed the read. I would like some clarification, tho. Are you arguing against the Catholic position? I ask because if you are, you failed and didn't poke any holes in anything.
This is great, Joe, thank you! It’s also worth noting she alludes to it herself in the Magnificat when she calls herself “lowly” then later says God cast down the mighty from their thrones and lifted up the “lowly”
The Woman in Revelation 12 has 4 Referents: 1) Israel, 2) The Church, 3) Eve and 4) Mary 1) She is ISRAEL because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from (Genesis 37:9-11) 2) The Woman is the CHURCH because as noted in Rev 12:17, "the rest of her offspring" are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians. 3) The Woman is EVE because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent and mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 4) The Woman is MARY because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. (Psalm 2:9, Revelation 12:5) But in a broader sense Mary represents Israel, Church, Eve and the Woman.
I like this. I would just add a fifth one, and what is often overlooked, but explicit in Revelation: 5) a sign in the sky; "A great sign appeared in the sky" (Rev 12:1).
The stronger case for why she is Mary is actually in Revelation 11:19. The Ark of the Covenant wherein God dwelt and let himself be carried around is shown to St. John as being physically present in heaven. THE VERY NEXT VERSE (remember verse numbering is not in the original scrolls), St. John sees the woman in heaven, the woman wherein God dwelt, and where God let himself by carried around. Our Blessed Mother is the perfected Ark, she who experienced a closeness with God that no one else will experience and the sharing of his divine blood. Imagine, we crave one drop of His precious blood for our healing and Blessed Mary experienced that intimacy with Jesus for 9 months!
@@alisterrebelo9013 I love that and that is very good insight, especially in that Luke who traditionally is said to have interviewed Mary at John's home in Ephesus in writing his gospel, compares Mary to the Ark of the Covenant in the old Testament. And here, we see John describing the Ark of the Covenant that can be seen from Heaven at 11:19, as the women giving birth to our Lord Jesus and the church at the same place (in heaven or the sky) right after in the very next verses. Amen. Also I love sharing this, where it says in sacred Scripture she is all glorious within, and the Queen of Heaven standing at the one how is anointed (our Lord Jesus) as Queen. Psalm 45:7-17 (NASB) (or 8-18 NABRE) 7 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions. 8 All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh, aloes, and cassia; From ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You joyful. 9 Kings’ daughters are among Your noble women; At Your right hand stands *THE QUEEN IN GOLD FROM OPHIR* . 10 Listen, daughter, look and incline your ear: Forget your people and your father’s house; 11 Then the King will crave your beauty. Because He is your Lord, bow down to Him. 12 The daughter of Tyre will come with a gift; The wealthy among the people will seek your favor. 13 THE *KING’S DAUGHTER IS ALL GLORIOUS WITHIN* ; Her clothing is interwoven with gold. 14 She will be brought to the King in colorful garments; THE VIRGINS, HER COMPANIONS WHO FOLLOW HER, WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU. 15 They will be brought with joy and rejoicing; They will enter into the King’s palace. 16 In place of your fathers will be your sons; You shall make them princes in all the earth. 17 *I WILL MAKE YOUR NAME KNOWN AMONG ALL GENERATIONS THEREFORE THE PEOPLES WILL PRAISE YOU FOREVER AND EVER* . Compare with: Luke 1:40-41, 46-50 she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and *Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit* 46 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has had regard for the humble state of His bond-servant; *FOR BEHOLD FROM NOW ON ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED FOR THE MIGHTY ONE HAS DONE GREAT THINGS FOR ME AND HOLY IS HIS NAME* . 50 And His mercy is to generation after generation Toward those who fear Him. Heb. 9:11 “But when Christ came as High priest of the good things that have come to be, PASSING THROUGH THE GREATER AND MORE PERFECT TABERNACLE NOT MADE BY HUMAN HANDS, THAT IS TO SAY, IS NOT A PART OF THIS CREATION”). " *ARISE O LORD INTO THY REST THOU AND THE ARK OF THY STRENGTH* ." - Psalm 132:8.
Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.” the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10). the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.” the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27). Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church. So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
If Jesus is the new Davidic Queen then who is the Queen Mother? In the Old Testament the queen wasn't the King's wife it was his Mother. Example when Solomon became King, Bathsheba became queen (Around the lines from Dr. Brant Pitre). HIGHLY recommend Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary by Dr. Brant Pitre for any Protestant or Catholic who would like to know answers regarding controversial beliefs of Mary and where they can be found in the bible.
Scripture is clear that all the baptized wear the crown of glory and share in Jesus' kingship that restores dominion to those recreated in his image (halos on saint icons are one allusion to this). So if the apostles state that every believer wears a crown, why is it so difficult for one to admit that Mary is also coronated par excellence? Grace is a gift, but no one deserved a crown more than her (James 1:12; Revelation 2:103:11; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 5:4).
Given to me to share by the HOLY SPIRIT. Rev. 12:1 was in the heavens on September 23, 2017, on the Feast of Trumpets. Literally, Virgo was bathed in the sun with the moon at her feet and three planets in Leo. This is such a rare alignment, last alignment being in 3973 BC at the fall of Adam. The sign was on the feast of trumpets in 2017. It does not set a date, but it does tell us the season and we are the last generation. HIS Mazzaroth was HIS plan of salvation written in the constellations lost to time. Virgo and Leo are the two constellations full circle from the fall to the Kingdom or Gen. 3:15 to CHRIST seated on HIS throne in the Millennium.
Rev. 12:2 look at Isa. 66:7 Israel didn't travail when JESUS was born, the woman did travail In holocaust before the Nation of Israel was born May 14th, 1948. Rev. 12:3 says to look at the constellation Dragon. The 7 heads are the states that became the Arab League of States. They make a pact with the Nazis in 1939 against the Jewish people aka "woman". The constellation dragon has in its tail Ursa Minor where we get the swastika symbol. Polaris is surrounded by the dragon making it visible both day and night, Rev. 12:10 accusing. Rev. 12:4 "And the tail (with swastika) drew (into ghettos and death camps) the one third (6 million) of the stars of heaven (Abraham's seed; Gen. 22:17) and did cast them to the ground (murdered and burned in holocaust), and the dragon (Arab League of States) stood before the woman (children of Israel) which was ready to be delivered (Isa.66:8) so to devour her child (Newborn Nation of Israel) as soon as it was born (the dragon beast attacked the day Israel was born). Rev.12:5 is the Rapture "Harpazo" of the Body of Christ aka the Gentile Church. JESUS was not Harpazo: violently snatched away HE was "eperthe" slowly lifted up in the clouds. Second, JESUS was a man at HIS ascension. We are to be like a child to enter the Kingdom of GOD, hence "man child"; Mat. 18:2-5. Rev. 12:6 the 70th week of Daniel begins. Rev. 12:7-10 is a war of accusations over the man child. aka just Raptured Body of CHRIST aka Gentile Church; Jude 9. Like Moses was accused with railing accusations so will satan accuse us. Rev. 12:11 in Heaven the Testimony of the Blood of CHRIST on the Mercy Seat is presented to satan and he is rebuked by our Testimony confidence in GOD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Rev. 12:12 we rejoice at the Wedding supper of the Lamb dwelling in Heaven. Woe to the inhabitants on the earth satan knows his time is 7 years short.
Mary, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us. Check Ezekiel 1,26: Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a *throne of lapis lazuli*, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. Our Lady is often represented with a blue mantle, "*The Lady in Blue*". It's interesting.
In Revelation 12, we see a tableaux with a female figure bearing a child. We know the child is the Messiah by the reference, "destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod" -- which recalls the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 2:7 - "The Lord said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod; you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.'" Now, if the child in Revelation 12 is Jesus, the woman from whom he issues can only be Mary. Here's why: We see a vision of her in the heavens, clothed in the sun, wearing a crown, a symbol of royalty: "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days... "When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commands and bear witness to Jesus." Queen of Heaven Much is made of the title Queen of Heaven by those who attack Catholicism and Marian devotion. The allusion is always to the pagan pantheons and to the mother of the gods, often mother in a very carnal sense of other pagan deities. The Canaanite worship of the "Queen of Heaven" condemned by the prophets is mentioned, as is the worship of Diana of the Ephesians, devotion to whom was exceeding popular before the Gospel arrived among the pagans. It is said that Catholicism at the Council of Ephesus restored this pagan devotion under the cover of devotion to Mary. The history of that Council given above shows the absurdity, and the intellectual dishonesty, of that claim! One might as well claim with respect to Jesus that Christians worship a mere man, since to arrive at this conclusion the Church's teaching must be ripped from its context and distorted to fit a preconceived judgement. What then does it mean for Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? In the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne. The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation, Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33) Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen. [6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV) That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ The woman spoken of in Revelation 12 is Mary. A few observations: • The woman is a great sign and appears in heaven. This is the Catholic view of Mary--that she has an important role in heaven and in the plan of redemption. • She is clothed with the sun, has the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. In the passage in Gen 37:9-10 the sun, moon and stars bow down to Joseph. This point is often missed by commentators. Therefore, Mary has a role similar to Joseph's in providing redemption to God's people. Joseph "saved" the Israelites and ruled over them just as Mary "saves" the church and rules over it. • Mary gives birth to the Messiah. This is the only literal meaning of the text. • Satan was cast down to earth as a result of events surrounding Christ's birth. Satan went after the child Jesus with a vengeance as we see in Herod's decree to kill the children. • Mary escapes to the desert--to Egypt, for safety and to protect Jesus. She was there for three and a half years. • Jesus was snatched up to God and His throne at His ascension. • Satan was unable to harm the child Jesus so he went off to destroy the rest of Mary's offspring. Notice who these are--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Mary's other offspring are the church. She had no other children other than Jesus. She is the spiritual mother of the church.🤣🤣
@@bibleman8010 okay so two things i have a question about why do catholics consider mary a virgin because of mark 6:3 its says "Is he not the carpenter ,the son of mary ,and the brother of james and joses and judas and simon?"also another verse Mark 3:31-35 Amplified Bible (AMP) Your mother and Your brothers are outside asking for You.” And He replied, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” Looking at those who were sitting in a circle around Him, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!" Now my second question why do catholics say mary saves the church yes i grant you her job was important and myabe she is the queen of heaven, i dont want to say something wrong regarding this part,i dont know but Jesus says i am the way the truth and the life whosoever cometh onto ME shall not perish but have everlasting life onto me ,he didnt mention mary in this role and if it is a thing i would appreciate some bible verses to back it up ,thank you. Im just trying to learn though i dont mean to hurt anyone if mh comments offend i just want to know the truth thats all
Prior to bodily assumption of Mary coming in as a belief at all in the late 5th century alot of Church Fathers interpreted Revelation 12 as the church and after that you slowly begin to see a shift towards an interpretation of Mary.
The passage does not say that the woman is a "queen", so this is being read into the text. Sure, theres a crown, but that could mean many different things. And yes it could also mean "queen". But the queen does not have to be a "queen mother". It could simply refer to the wife of the king, in which case the church being the bride of Christ is wife of the King Jesus and is therefore a "queen" in this sense too. I personally think its about Israel/the Church as theres nothing that indicates its especially about Mary (only superficially it is). I think this is further supported when you consider the narrative in Rev 12 about the woman being persecuted and hidden in the wilderness and given "wings". That never happened to Mary. So to me, the data fits better with it being about Israel/Church since there are several passages in the OT describing Israel as a woman about to give birth and also Isaiah 9:6 which says, "for unto us a child is born", which would typologically point to the woman giving birth to the male child. Plus the vision of Joseph in Gen 37:9 - which is really a connection with Israel since it includes himself and his other 11 brothers - this has a better typological connection with Revelation 12 than anything written about Mary. Mary is never described in this way. So in summary. Could you say its about Mary? Yeah you could attempt to. But you immediately run into problems that do not make sense of the entire narrative. You only have a superficial similarity for about 3 seconds and then that similarity no longer makes sense. Whereas the connection between the woman and Israel/The Church is much stronger and makes better sense of the narrative and also the data.
Here's GK Beale's exposition and it makes a lot more sense that this is primarily about the believing community as a whole (Israel/Church) rather than about Mary: "1 After the temple scene of 11:19, John sees a great sign which appeared in heaven. He first sees a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Vv. 2-6 reveal that this woman is a picture of the faithful community, which existed both before and after the coming of Christ. This identification is based on the OT precedent, where sun, moon, and eleven stars metaphorically represent Jacob, his wife, and eleven of the tribes of Israel (Gen. 37:9), who bow down to Joseph, representing the twelfth tribe. Song of Solomon 6:10 was used in later Jewish literature to describe Israel in terms of the sun, the moon, and the stars, and restored Israel (which in Revelation is identified as the church) is described similarly in Isa. 60:19-20. In fact, in Isaiah a woman often represents the picture of restored Israel (e.g., 52:2; 54:1-6; 61:10; 62:1-5), and Isa. 62:3, 5 prophesies that restored Israel will be like a bride wearing a crown. The brightness of the woman’s appearance (clothed with the sun) reflects the same brightness in the face of Christ (1:16). Her glory is the reflected glory of Christ. Just as the sun, moon, and stars appear far from earth and immune from destruction by any earthly force, so also true Israel of the OT and NT epochs is ultimately indestructible on earth because ultimate identity is in heaven (mention of Michael, Israel’s heavenly representative and protector [Dan. 12:1], in vv. 7-8 points further to this). That the woman represents both the old and new covenant communities becomes even clearer in vv. 11-17, where her seed or offspring is not only Christ but also the entire community of His followers. The crown on her head is best defined from within Revelation itself. It represents the saints’ share in Christ’s kingship and the reward which the true people of God throughout the ages receive for their victory over opposition to their faith (i.e., over persecution, temptations to compromise, and deception; so 2:10; 3:11; 4:4, 10; cf. 14:14). The stellar brightness of her appearance reflects the powerful and pure sunlight arising from God’s and Christ’s glorious image (as in 1:16; 10:1; 21:23; 22:5). 2 The woman is in labor and in pain to give birth. Catholic commentators have written an immense amount of literature arguing that the heavenly woman symbolizes Mary, the mother of Jesus. Though the mother of Jesus may be secondarily in mind, the primary focus is not on an individual but on the community of faith, within which the messianic line ultimately yielded a kingly offspring. This is evident, not only from the discussion of v. 1, but also from observing in the remainder of the chapter that the woman is persecuted, flees into the desert, and has other offspring than just the Messiah, offspring who are described as faithful Christians. The woman’s birth-pangs refer to the persecution of the covenant community and the messianic line during OT times and especially the intertestamental period leading up to Christ’s birth. The idea of persecution is expressed in the phrase in pain (literally “being tormented”), since the verb (Greek basanizō) is used in the NT of the suffering of punishment, trial, and persecution (Matt. 8:29; Mark 5:7; 6:48; Luke 8:28; 2 Pet. 2:8). The suggestion is that the woman is being tormented and suffering as she attempts to give birth, which fits with a picture of the faithful Jewish community being persecuted in the period leading up to the birth of Christ. It was a trial to continue to wait for the great deliverance which the Messiah would finally bring at His coming (cf. Luke 2:25-38). In John 16:19-22, Christ compares the grief of His disciples over His impending death to a woman about to give birth who “has sorrow” and is about to bear a child. There, in line with our view of Rev. 12:2, the disciples represent the mother, the messianic community, in the midst of which the Christ was born in resurrection, and which would later present the resurrected Christ to the world. In Rev. 12:2 it is, however, Christ’s first birth that is in mind and not this later resurrection birth." - Revelation, a Shorter Commentary, GK Beale, 2015
Thanks for the video❤. Good one. Many of you guys are right. All representations are included. Jews, Eve, Mary, Israel and Church. The last journey to Medugorje "when you fall asleep, you'll die" really happened on 23rd September. 😉 Repenting sinner, Mary, studying for 8 years under Antichrist at University and whose final work was about Jews came to Mary Our Lady in Medugorje for shelter and protection. Evil woman, head of the trip and accommodation, wanted to kill her. Ukrainian woman betrayed Mary and let the evil woman sit next to her during Mass. Mary put down the neon jacket and in a blue top was looking for a new place and a new accommodation. Some ignored her despite having received Eucharistia just a few mins ago. Some wanted to help her. One girl asked her if she wasnt cold and went with her to buy brown jacket as a symbol of penance. Despite the camouflage, the evil woman, knowing her in the neon jacket, found her in the brown and Mary, suffering long time in fears, was screaming "Holy Trumphant Church, Holy Trimphant Church!"
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with THE REST OF HER OFFSPRING, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The woman in revelation 12, was the stick of Judah, out of the house of Israel who came to Christ. Mary was a part of the stick of Judah. The 1260 days was from April 11, AD70 to September 22, AD73. That last day was their last day on earth. Those 1260 days were when the two sticks mentioned in Ezekiel 37, were one stick. The stick of Joseph had already arrived to their gathering before the stick of Judah did. The book of Revelation mentions the harlot (house of Israel who committed spiritual fortification, by rejecting their husband and chose Caesar over Christ when they cried out to crucify Christ). The book of revelation also mentions two other “woman”. One was stick of Joseph, and the other stick of Judah. The woman mentioned in revelation 12, was stick of Judah. Again, Mary was a part of the stick of Judah.
As a revert from atheism (~16 years or so) it always baffled me how anyone, Christian or non-Christian western could read those passages and not once think it meant, among other things (Israel and so on, and so forth), the Virgin Mary. The amount of mental gymnastics protestants do to think: "it can mean this, it can mean that, it can mean ALL these things, but not Mary, no no no".
You might well imagine, those early in power within a body called 'the church' got hold of information they didn't quite understand. As with all good religions, they have a story to tell. In this case, the information they had was manipulated to tell a story other than 'the truth' of what was going on. In fact, the woman in Revelation 12, as seen in the vision, was delivering the man or male child, not the Christ child. Jesus, as we all know to be the way the truth and the life as well as he and the Father are one, and hopefully love, was born the Christ child, and there will be none like him ever born again. With this said, the child in Revelation 12 is not the Christ child born of flesh and blood, since this child is snatched up to the throne room of God. We were clearly told the kingdom is within, we know the throne room of God is within the mind of man. The man child is born of water and spirit (unless you become as a little child born of water and spirit...) Jesus told us about the sheep gate, and we know the sheep gate is where we are counted as one with the Father through the Son. Jesus told us the way leading to life is narrow and few find it and we know the woman in Revelation 12 is delivering the one child within man and this child is he who enters the narrow way leading to life few find. How do we know this? The woman in Revelation 12 is in labour, she's crying out, and what is she saying? You must hear her cry, liken to wisdom in the streets. The woman in Revelation 12 conceived correct the truth, with the Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Now those who lack wisdom to understand, who are foolish in their thinking carnal in nature, always look to the world to understand whats being said and this, is in error called the broadway leading to death. The woman in Revelation 12 asked Lord Jesus for the truth. She asked him, as she was preparing to die, not holding onto life anymore, she asked him to tell her whats going on. Pretty simple. This innocent asking is liken to the story of the Sword in the Stone. In this, the last day, called the 3rd day where the dead in Christ are the first to rise up with him, she cries out to many and though many hear her, only a few understand. The elected of Christ are the first to rise up that is to say, be raised up a Christ with the Lord Jesus, along the narrow way leading to life, coming into the Fathers presence, and the Father is the light. You see, there is a tiny misunderstanding, called a sliver in the eye. Many will not want to see, thus the beam and yet, as its written, not all shall sleep (for soul does sleep within man liken to beauty for she is the wisdom of Him who is She) yet we shall all be changed, thus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord. How do I know this, and in truth, you may think "What?" I am she. And the name is Mary, sister to the messiah who is my Lord and saviour, he is my Father who is the Christ. Go figure. M
Note this snippet: *"And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems"* (Revelation 12:1-3). The wife is the Jerusalem Church of Christ, it is in Jerusalem that the Church must appear, and the dragon points to the appearance of the Antichrist. Both are signs. Ask yourself the question, signs of what? Signs of the imminent return of Christ. For the appearance of the Church and the Antichrist will foreshadow the soon return of Christ. *"She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,"* (Revelation 12:5). The male child is the two witnesses, the birth is their resurrection, they are the firstfruits of the Church, in their person the heavenly kingdom is born. As written: *"But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them."* (Revelation 11:11-12). The two witnesses are the first overcomers who will be resurrected and ascended to heaven. As Jesus said: *"The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father."* (Revelation 2:26-27). About the verse: *"Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea."* (Revelation 12:17). *"the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God"* are the rest of the churches, that is, from the seed of the Jerusalem Church. ______________________________________________________ Reading the books of the New Testament, we perhaps asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years? The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist. Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
Re: Revelation 12:1 "The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh." St. Victorinus of Pettau 300 AD
The prophetic scripture and the Revelation 12 woman have several meanings. Scripture tells us one of them for this explicitly: "A great sign appeared in the sky" (Rev 12:1). We cannot discount this very important and explicit meaning. This occurred over Jerusalem on September 23, 2017 as noted by reporting of the Vatican Observatory, which was on the Feast of Shabbat Shuva ("Sabbath of the Return"). The Dragon sign followed on December 17, 2017 on the 6th day of Hanukkah over Jerusalem on "Rosh Chodesh - "the new month" or "new moon"). Regarding, Mary as Queen of Heaven, another meaning of this "sign" (Gk. sēmeion or σημεῖον): Psalm 45:7-17 (NASB) (or 8-18 NABRE) 7 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions. 8 All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh, aloes, and cassia; From ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You joyful. 9 Kings’ daughters are among Your noble women; At Your right hand stands *THE QUEEN IN GOLD FROM OPHIR* . 10 Listen, daughter, look and incline your ear: Forget your people and your father’s house; 11 Then the King will crave your beauty. Because He is your Lord, bow down to Him. 12 The daughter of Tyre will come with a gift; The wealthy among the people will seek your favor. 13 THE *KING’S DAUGHTER IS ALL GLORIOUS WITHIN* ; Her clothing is interwoven with gold. 14 She will be brought to the King in colorful garments; THE VIRGINS, HER COMPANIONS WHO FOLLOW HER, WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU. 15 They will be brought with joy and rejoicing; They will enter into the King’s palace. 16 In place of your fathers will be your sons; You shall make them princes in all the earth. 17 *I WILL MAKE YOUR NAME KNOWN AMONG ALL GENERATIONS THEREFORE THE PEOPLES WILL PRAISE YOU FOREVER AND EVER* Compare with: Luke 1:40-41, 46-50 she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and *Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit* 46 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has had regard for the humble state of His bond-servant; *FOR BEHOLD FROM NOW ON ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED FOR THE MIGHTY ONE HAS DONE GREAT THINGS FOR ME AND HOLY IS HIS NAME* . 50 And His mercy is to generation after generation Toward those who fear Him. The woman is also the Church. " Colossians 1:24 24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking[n] in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the Church"; The woman is also Israel or Jerusalem: "But THE JERUSALEM ABOVE IS FREEBORN, AND SHE IS OUR MOTHER." - Gal 4:26; She is anyone who does the will of the Father and gives life by their witness to Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to others as members of the Church. "For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”- Mt. 12:50; 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” - Mt. 28:29-20.
Who is the woman in Revelation 12? The woman of the Apocalypse-described as being “clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars” (verse 1)-represents Old Testament Israel. In the Old Testament, God referred to His people as a woman whom He had dressed in honor and splendor (Ezekiel 16). The garland with 12 stars may be symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel (Genesis 37:9-10).
How do we know it's Mary and not Israel? It could be one or the other, or both. But just as the church is the bride, Israel could be the queen/ mother.
Depends on what commentators you research. From my research spanning Catholic and Protestant theologians it can either mean the literal mother of Christ, Mary, or it could be the faithful Israel/Jewish Church. Since this is clearly a biased channel ill give an example of a Catholic commentary: Cambridge Greek Testament Commentary - Who is this? The two answers most commonly given are (1) the Virgin Mary, (2) the Church. Neither seems quite satisfactory. There can indeed be little doubt that the Son born of this woman is the Son of Mary: nor ought theological or ecclesiastical considerations to exclude the view that Mary is herself intended by the mother; the glory ascribed to her is no greater than that of a glorified saint (Daniel 12:3 ; St Matthew 13:43 ), and St John was not bound to suppress a truth for fear of the false inference Pius V. or Pius IX. might seek to draw from it. But it is not in harmony with the usage of this book for a human being, even a glorified saint, to be introduced in his personal character: if St John saw (see on 4:4, 5:5) himself , who was not yet glorified, sitting among the elders, it is plain that it is typical, not personal, glory or blessedness that this description indicates. Who then, or what, is the typical or mystical Mother of Christ? Not the Christian Church, which in this book as elsewhere is represented as His wife: but the Jewish Church , the ideal Israel, “the daughter of Zion.” See especially Micah 4:10 , Micah 5:3 : where it is her travail from which He is to be born Who is born in Bethlehem. This accounts for the only features that support the other view, the appearance in her glory of the Sun, Moon, and stars of Song of Solomon 6:10 , and the mention of “the remnant of her seed” in v. 17.
The Woman in Revelation 12 has 4 Referents: 1) Israel, 2) The Church, 3) Eve and 4) Mary 1) She is ISRAEL because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from (Genesis 37:9-11) 2) The Woman is the CHURCH because as noted in Rev 12:17, "the rest of her offspring" are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians. 3) The Woman is EVE because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent and mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 4) The Woman is MARY because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. (Psalm 2:9, Revelation 12:5) But in a broader sense Mary represents Israel, Church, Eve and the Woman.
Sir, it's a woman clothed with with very special clothes (the sun), and has a Crown over her head with stars. That description corresponds with what we normally picture a Queen to look like. It's the same thing if i said: I saw an animal, it was a gigant lizard with wings to fly and a very tough skin, who could breath fire and destroy cities. And someone said: "¿A dragon?". And you said: "No, it coudn't possibly be a Dragon, he didn't use the word dragon in his description". It is at least the most plausible interpretation that i am, indeed, referring to a dragon.
@@dann285 The woman spoken of in Revelation 12 is Mary. A few observations: • The woman is a great sign and appears in heaven. This is the Catholic view of Mary--that she has an important role in heaven and in the plan of redemption. • She is clothed with the sun, has the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. In the passage in Gen 37:9-10 the sun, moon and stars bow down to Joseph. This point is often missed by commentators. Therefore, Mary has a role similar to Joseph's in providing redemption to God's people. Joseph "saved" the Israelites and ruled over them just as Mary "saves" the church and rules over it. • Mary gives birth to the Messiah. This is the only literal meaning of the text. • Satan was cast down to earth as a result of events surrounding Christ's birth. Satan went after the child Jesus with a vengeance as we see in Herod's decree to kill the children. • Mary escapes to the desert--to Egypt, for safety and to protect Jesus. She was there for three and a half years. • Jesus was snatched up to God and His throne at His ascension. • Satan was unable to harm the child Jesus so he went off to destroy the rest of Mary's offspring. Notice who these are--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Mary's other offspring are the church. She had no other children other than Jesus. She is the spiritual mother of the church.🤣🤣
Hi Dan, If Jesus is the new Davidic Queen then who is the Queen Mother? In the Old Testament the queen wasn't the King's wife it was his Mother. Example when Solomon became King, Bathsheba became queen (Around the lines from Dr. Brant Pitre). HIGHLY recommend to you Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary by Dr. Brant Pitre for if you would like to know answers regarding controversial beliefs of Mary and where they can be found in the bible.
@@dann285 The interpretation of the Woman as Israel is also a validly recognized interpretation by the church. It is also true that a single simbol can have more than one thing that it is alluding to. And based on the conections made previously on why the woman also could be seen as the Virgin Mary, it is also a valid interpretation of this.
But where is it written that this “woman” is enthroned in heaven? You’re taking liberties with the text. It says that there will be a “sign” in heaven, not a woman. The New Testament speaks of ‘signs in heaven’ multiple times. This “sign”, it is written, will appear. The church wants to make a “sign” into a literal woman. Revelation 17 has another “woman”. Who is this woman who is drunk on the blood of the saints and martyrs? Is she literal too? Nothing against the Mother of our Lord here, I’m just wanting people to think of these texts with a sober mind. If John had written that a woman would appear, then fine, assume it’s Mary, but I think he chose his words for a reason.
Something to consider, Catholic friends, that might change your viewpoint on who this queen is. It is believed that Mary, being perfect, did not experience the pain of birth like most women would feel. If you believe that to be true, please review Revelation 12:2 which says, "She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth." In light of that, do you still think this queen is Mary and maybe she wasn't perfect, just chosen by God, and experienced birth like every other woman? Or, can you leave room to think that maybe the queen in Rev 12 isn't Mary at all?
Rev. 12:1 tells us explicitly the woman is a sign in the sky or heaven. The “birth pangs” could refer to Mary’s trials before the birth of Jesus, the pain she felt at the Cross, during which she became a spiritual mother to John (and by extension all believers) at John 19:25-27, as well as the pain experienced by the people of God both before the Messiah’s birth and after his resurrection during Roman persecution. Mary’s suffering was prophesied about by Simeon, where he says to Mary “you yourself a sword will pierce: “22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons . . . 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. - Luke 2: 22-24, 34-35. Not only does Mary give birth to Jesus, but to his body, which should be obvious. The word of God calls the body of Jesus the Church. Mary by her eternal fiat and the suffering she was destined for alongside her son's on the cross gives birth to not only her son but his body that is the Church (Eph. 1:22-23; 3:20-21; 5:23-29; Colossians 1:18, 24). 21 When a woman is in labor, she is in anguish because her hour has arrived; but when she has given birth to a child, she no longer remembers the pain because of her joy that a child has been born into the world. 22 So you also are now in anguish. But I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you. 23 On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. - John 16:21-23. Isaiah 66:7 7 Before she is in labor, she gives birth; Before her pangs come upon her, she delivers a male child. The prophet Isaiah goes on to read: 8 “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons." So we see Mary is the Mother of our Incarnate God, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, as well as of the beloved Apostle by command of our Lord on the cross (John 19:26), but also of all those who follow her Son, because we are his body. "19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 21 Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord" - Ephesians 2:19-21. Come Lord Jesus. Amen.
I believe the woman to represent multiple things, but foremost scripture is clear on what it is "A great sign appeared in the sky". Anything after that is probably accurate as well if we want to say, Mary, the Church, Israel, or Eve. The woman can be every one of these. But foremost it is a sign in the sky. This sign occurred on September 23, 2017 over Jerusalem on the same day as as the Feast of Shabbat Shuva (“Sabbath of the Return”). Interestingly, Rosh Hashana, or the Feast of Trumpets (YomTeruah) is on October 2, 2024 is about 7 years, 10 days after Sept. 23, 2017. Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is ten days after that. The Dragon sign (Rev 12:3 "Then another sign appeared in the sky) appears over Jerusalem on December 17, 2017: sixth day of Hanukkah, Dec. 13-20, 2017, also known as the Festival of Lights, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem. You can see it in Stellarium, a free online astronomy software. The “Taking-up” event in the sky ended about July 7-9, 2018 at Jupiter being at the peak of Libra along the ecliptic over Jerusalem before continuing completely along the ecliptic in the other direction again crossing through Scorpio and out of view. Tisha B’av or the 9th of Av, the mourning of the destruction of the Holy Temple. Rev 15:1 "Then I saw in heaven another sign, great and awe-inspiring [marvellous / amazing]: seven angels with the seven last plagues, for through them God’s fury is accomplished." Seven planets (often considered "wandering stars', as referred to in Jude v.13) lines up with the Constellation Pleiades, also called the Constellation of the Seven Stars or Seven Sisters. The Seven Angels in Revelation are called Seven Stars (Rev 1:20). It also is in the shape of a tilted cup above, and ancients called it a grape cluster, which could also have a connection to the harvest of clusters in Rev. 14; for further research. March 28, 2024 alignment begins (Total Eclipse is on April 8, 2024) all seven planets align along the ecliptic and with Pleaides on the other side of the sun opposite earth, a very rare event. I think God has set the story in the sky for us to observe as a means of preparation like the 7 years of plenty and the 7 years of famine. Matthew 24:45 45 “Who, then, is the faithful and prudent servant [doulos, bond-servant], whom the master has put in charge of his household to distribute to them their food at the proper time? o 46 Blessed is that "servant" whom his master on his arrival finds doing so. o The word for servant here is "Bond-servant", so the word is servant or slave, or freed slave. o The answer to Jesus riddle is Joseph. He was the only slave in the Bible who was put in charge of a household to distribute food at the proper time for the Seven years of plenty and the SEven years of famine that followed.
@@Jesus3ITrustinThee Wait, but vs 23 says that Jesus was born of an open womb. This goes against Catholic church teaching that Jesus was born "clauso utero" and that Mary didn't birth Jesus in the normal way so that, according to important Catholic doctrine, Mary is perpetually a virgin. There seems to be quite a few verses that have scripture that actively opposes Catholic teaching versus what the infallible word of God teaches. Jesus was born of Mary. This is indisputable. He wasn't miraculously in her womb and then in her arms in swaddling clothes in an instant. She went through the act of child birth. Either she did that without pain or she did. In Protestantism, it doesn't matter which, because other than a general doctrine of Mary being blessed among women, that aspect doesn't matter to the life, ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, her son. If you need her to have a virgin birth, free from pain because she is without sin herself, then she can't be the woman in Revelation 12 "crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth" that you need her to be. That woman also apparently had other children, which Catholics also Mary never had. Verse 17 says she had other offspring. The Greek there for offspring is "loypoi autos sperma" - the remnant of her seed. Hard to say those are cousins, or adopted kids, or other general Christians. Her seed.
@@ToeTag1968 Good comment. I’ll try to clarify some things if you are interested. Whether Mary experienced pain at birth, or not, is not a defined teaching for Catholics, but has been a subject of debate throughout history. It does not have the same level of dogma as Mary being a “perpetual virgin”. However, the “perpetual virgin” dogma does not rely on whether Mary had birth pangs or whether a physical hymen was present or not, for example. These discussions are centered around various early writings at the time like the Protoevenagelium of James (Gospel of James) which had to have been in circulation before 150 AD because it is referenced by other early writings of that time. Instead, the subject of the birth pains is cited as one of the many reasons for belief in another Marian dogma called the “immaculate conception”. It is not the only reason by far. There are four Marian dogmas defined by the Catholic Church: “perpetual virginity”, “immaculate conception”, “theotokos or mother of God” and Mary’s Assumption. The “immaculate conception” states Mary was formed without original sin. Original sin is the curse of Adam and Eve that occurred through sin entering the world so that it affected all creation; one aspect of which at Gen 3:16, God would “increase” birth pains at child birth. This does not necessarily mean that women never would have had any pain at birth before the fall of Adam and Eve, because God says he will multiply the woman’s sorrow or pain at birth and at conception, rather than saying there will now be pain. There are different circles or groups of belief among Catholics in history who discuss the birth pangs and miraculous birth from various writings: some say Mary had a normal birth, and others that the birth was miraculous. This comes from different historical writings, which I’ll leave to you to dig into if you wish. I’m not super interested in the discussion really. If you are interested in any “Catholic” arguments among them, add the word catholic to any google search and you can learn about the discussions. There are a lot of writings from the first century that didn’t make it into canon, even written by the Apostles, but can still be read, especially by gnostics and other groups of people that were often countered by Christian leaders of the time in their writings. Let me just say: Mary’s “perpetual virginity” is not just taught by those of the Latin Rite (Roman) Catholics, but has been taught also by Orthodox Catholics, Eastern Rite Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Reformed. Martin Luther recognized the perpetual virginity of Mary, although his descendants have not. Not that this matters, except that it has been in discussions for a long time. Why is the “ever virgin” Marian dogma even significant is probably a better question? Because it testifies to Jesus Christ our Lord, who is FULLY GOD and FULLY HUMAN. It points to what we will be like beyond this life and the power that Jesus Christ can have in our lives - in nutshell.
@@ToeTag1968 At the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D., Mary was officially given the title “Ever-virgin.” A century later, Pope Martin I clarified that by this the Church’s means to say that Mary was a virgin before, during, and after Christ’s birth. Mary’s perpetual virginity matters because its truth has implications that matter to all of us; namely, points beyond her life to the world that is to come, a world in which there will be no more marriage and we will all be as Mary was. “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven,” Jesus told the Sadducees (Matt. 22:30). Mary’s virginity is a pre-figurement of heaven, the reward for those who say to God, with Mary, “Thy will be done.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “Christ’s birth ‘did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it.” (CCC 499) And this point deserves special notice: the virgin birth was not simply a neat trick, a miracle used to “wow” people, something to indicate that something special occurred. It was a clear indicator that Mary was set aside (and set herself aside, by her fiat, or her willing submission of her to will to God’s will) for service to God, conforming her will with the will of God. She was set apart by her virginity, and her virginity was sanctified by Our Lord in his birth. The virgin birth-and Mary’s perpetual virginity-are signs of Mary’s total consecration to God, single-minded service to him, and utter abandonment to his will. She is the model of the first Christian and what we are called to be in our union with the body of Christ, the Church (Eph. 1:22-23). The Gospel of James, which of course is not canon, is a writing referenced in many other early writings and "traditions" like art, liturgical calendars and others that are more customs. It explains the birth of Jesus. This is significant if it was written by James, the brother of Jesus, who in this same writing, the author claims to be the brother of Jesus as the son of Joseph by his marriage to Mary. This is the same James how headed the Orthodox branch of the Church in the early days, visited Peter, was called a pillar by Paul (Galatians 2:9), and spoke as a leader of the first church council in Acts at Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 15:13-21. Anyway there is a lot here. The bottom line is we are each made pure in Christ, as imagers of the Father, so that all glory be given to him. Although Jesus was humbled himself to become a slave he enters creation restoring it from sin to himself. This was and is the plan of God to bring us all into one in him through his Son. "when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation" - Heb. 9:11. This tabernacle was Mary who housed God himself, because Jesus is fully God and fully man as the incarnate God. God chose her, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you" just as he says of the prophet Jeremiah "a prophet to the nations I appointed you". Mary too was appointed, dedicated and known by God before her birth, consecrated and kept from harm that her flesh might be the flesh of our God, born so that we may be set free from our sins and restored in his grace like Mary, the first Christian and mother of the body of Christ, the Church. Amen.
Try reading your bible and not just making assumptions. Genesis 37:9. Joseph has a dream and there is sun, moon, and 11 stars. The stars will represent the 12 tribes of Israel because Joseph here does not include himself as the 12th star yet. In Revelation it is speaking about Israel. Jesus was Jewish and as a nation gave birth to Jesus. Ezekiel 8:14. The women are weeping for Tamuz or what they thought was the queen of heaven. Jeremiah 7:18,44:17-19, 44:25. Burning and offering to the queen of heaven, which God condemns.
We are not burning or offering anything to her though, all we ask if for her to help pray to God. Also don't you think it's abhorently disrespectful to liken the mother of our Lord to a mesopotamian goddess of fertility, which Jeremiah was clearly referencing to?
Revelation 12 has nothing to do with Mary. Did JESUS give those accounts to the Angel to Show to John? And if you had read Revelation 12. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. Did you see "Her Child was Snacked up by God". Jesus was 33 years old, and this was a child, not a grown man! You'll all need to pay attention... LIFE
@@debraannmartinez7157 If you don’t play church, then go to Jesus’ true church. Even the reformers church are by man, and NOT by Jesus. I suggest to use all of the passage as logic AND emotion; and not emotion ALONE. “His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who IS TO RULE all the nations with a rod of iron. But her child was snatched away and taken to God and to his throne” “and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, so that there she can be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days.” The days of 1,260 days is 3.452 years. So what happens? The last recording of Mary was at the wedding at Cana when the wine was out, she said to the servant, “Do whatever he tells you” after Jesus said “Woman (In her natural state) what does this have to do with me? My hour has not come.” Explaining the first miracle. You don’t hear another word from Mary again because now, it’s Jesus Christ to preform His work on earth. Now, let’s go back to the Old Testament. 1 Kings 2:19-20: “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right. 20 Then she said, “I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you.” Oh, BTW; saying Life at the end of a statement, doesn’t matter. There is a reason why THE Catholic Church gave the world, THE Bible. Not the other way around. Think about it.
It's not biblical... it's philosophical... you only brought an attempt at explanation, without any verses to support your logic... If the woman is Mary, explain then why she's still alive during the tribulations, in verse 13. We know this is future from now, because as of NOW, Satan is not cast down to earth yet, as we know this happens after seal #1. So, if the woman is Mary, it means she's about 2000 years old by now. Also, if the woman is Mary, then verse 18 says the dragon goes to make war with the rest of her seed, or posterity, or children... But... you Catholics say Mary is a perpetual virgin... So... She didn't die as a virgin or not? And also, explain she's clothed with what in verse 1. What's the sun? Mary clothed with the sun? Explain biblically, if it is so biblical.
It's very biblical. Just that you don't read your Bible properly. And also Jesus who appeared to mystic Maria Valtorta says in her book The poem of Man-God.... Jesus says: « Today write only this. Purity has such a value, that the womb of a creature can contain the Uncontainable One, because She possessed the greatest purity that a creature of God could have. The Most Holy Trinity descended with Its perfections, inhabited with Its Three Persons, enclosed Its infinity in a small space. But It did not debase Itself by doing so, because the love of the Virgin and the will of God widened this space until they rendered it a Heaven. And the Most Holy Trinity made Itself known by Its characteristics: The Father, being once again the Creator of the creature, as on the sixth day of Creation, had a real, worthy daughter fashioned to His perfect image. The mark of God was impressed so completely and exactly on Mary, that only in the First- born was it greater. Mary can be called the Second-born of the Father because, owing to the perfection granted to Her and preserved by Her, and to Her dignity of Spouse and Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, She comes second after the Son of the Father and second in His eternal thought, which ab aeterno took delight in Her. The Son, being also “Her Son”, did teach Her, by the mystery of Grace, His truth and wisdom, when He was but an Embryo, growing in Her womb. The Holy Spirit appeared amongst men, for an anticipated prolonged Pentecost: Love for “Her Whom He loved”, Consolation to men because of the Fruit of Her Womb, Sanctification on account of the Maternity of the Holy One. God, to reveal Himself to men in the new and complete form, which starts the Redemption era, did not select for His throne a star in the sky, nor the palace of a powerful man. Neither did He want the wings of angels as the base of His feet. He wanted a spotless womb. Also Eve had been created spotless. But she wanted to become corrupt of her own free will. Mary, Who lived in a corrupt world - Eve was in a pure world - did not wish to violate Her purity, not even with one thought remotely connected with sin. She knew that sin exists. She saw its various and horrible forms and implications. She saw them all, including the most hideous one: deicide. But She knew them solely to expiate them and to be, forever, the Woman who has mercy on sinners and prays for their redemption."
@@DrSharuMaria , swiping the whole thing with the overused "you don't read your bible properly" and then not answering my points using scriptures and then resorting to what a mystic says, in a so-called revelation... your reply has no authority...
@@ourendtimewalk scripture clearly shows that She is Mary, Mother of Christ. Just that your pride doesn't allow you to see properly. You people say it's Israel, it's the Church but you can clearly see that John states that she give birth to a Male child which is to rule the nation's with an iron rode. This is stated in the old testament and is about the virgin birth of Christ. If Christ is King of Kings, His Mother is surely the Queen.
@@ourendtimewalk Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He is the Eternal conqueror, Lord of Peace. If Jesus is King, His Mother Mary is queen there is no doubt in that. In the old testament book of 1 Kings, Solomon is the King and He makes Bathsheba his queen Mother and makes her sit at his right hand. This was the tradition in Israel. Jesus is Everlasting King from the line of David. John in the book of Revelation sees a vision, he sees the heavens open and heavenly Jerusalem appear in Her glory. And immediately he says I see a woman clothed in Sun , 12 stars as Her crown, moon was at her feet. She was pregnant. She bore a Male child who is to rule Israel with an Iron rode which symbolises The Messiah from the old testament. You protestants say that lady is The church....The Church didn't give birth to Jesus, Church is the mystical body of Christ. It's clearly stating Mary, Mother of Son of God. She is the queen of heaven because Christ is the King. Anyone who is true believer of God can see this in John's vision. Satan vaged war against the woman because she is the One giving birth to Jesus who will conquer Satan and death. Since she was given wings to escape from him, he waged war against the people of earth, who keeps the word of God , who are her children as Christ has made Her Mother of all Christians wen He gave Her to John as a mother. I said you have pride because u refuse to acknowledge the facts and misinterpret the Bible according to your own way.
If Karlo from Catholic answers treats Fiducia Supplicans as a teaching subject to personal interpretation, then would it not make sense the teaching about Mary is equally subjective?
That would not apply here because Mary Queen of Heaven is dogmatically defined as true. Fiducia Supplicans is an instruction up to the discretion of the bishops, Jesus as King and Mary as Queen are infallibly defined.
@@JacksonC-8000 So then the entire teachings of the Catholic Church is subjective, unless dogmatically defined. Even many teachings of Mary are not part of what is dogmatically defined. Are the German Bishops free to ignore FS as both the Dicastery and the Pope do not actually matter as a teaching authority, given bishop's discretion is superior to the seat of Peter?
@@dan_m7774 This is comparing apples with oranges. An instruction is a matter of practice. It is one of those traditions with a small "t" in how we carry out the faith that is different from truth in faith and morals with a large "T". The concept of dogma has two elements: 1) the public revelation of God, which is divine revelation as contained in sacred Scripture (the written word) and sacred Tradition, and 2) a proposition of the Catholic Church, which not only announces the dogma but also declares it binding for the faith. Dogmas are classified: a) According to their content as: General Dogmas (dogmata generalia) and Special Dogmas (dogmata specialia). To the former belong the fundamental truths of Christianity, to the latter the individual truths contained therein. b) According to their relation with Reason as: Pure Dogmas (dogmata pura) and Mixed Dogmas (dogmata mixta). The former we know solely through Divine Revelation, e.g., The Trinity (mysteries), the latter by Natural Reason also, e.g., The Existence of God. c) According to the mode by which the Church proposes them, as: Formal Dogmas (dogmata formalia) and Material Dogmas (dogmata materialia). The former are proposed for belief by the Teaching Authority of the Church as truths of Revelation; the latter are not so proposed, for which reason they are not Dogmas in the strict sense. d) According to their relation with salvation as: Necessary Dogmas (dogmata necessaria) and Non-necessary Dogmas (dogmata non-necessaria). The former must be explicitly believed by all in order to achieve eternal salvation; for the latter implicit faith (fides implicita) suffices (cf. Hebr. II, 6).
@@dan_m7774 No. The Church defines that which is absolutely true and that which is open to personal opinion within certain parameters. For an example, the Church says Christ is God. You cannot disagree with this fact and be in Communion with God's church. When you say subjective it implies the teaching is meaningless which it is not. For an example, you can hold the belief that God created the world in literally seven days or you can hold the belief that this is a metaphorical device for showing stages in creation but you CANNOT say that the universe always existed and didn't need God to create it. The Church gives barriers and pathways to what is true so that the faithful won't stumble into heresy in seeking truth and the application of truth. Fiducia Supplicans is a document on pastoral instruction. This comes from the seat of Peter. A Bishop accepts the substance of the document but must determine if the instruction in practice (not theory) will work in a universal Catholic church. In America this can work great, in Africa it almost certainly would cause more trouble in practice than it would help. Most dogmas on Mary you're probably thinking about have been infallibly defined.
@@dan_m7774 no, you are jumping from a very narrow conflict to putting in doubt all the teaching authority of the Chuch. First, the teaching authority has different levels of infallability, and we as Catholics always have to be receptive with submission of mind to listen to the different authorities in the church. However, the personal opinions of a particular priest, as long as they don't contradict stablished doctrine, can be treated, for example, as not completely infallible. But for another example if a certain doctrine has been declared in an ecumenical council, that doctrine has a more robust and un-negotiable status. In the case of fiduccia Suplicants, the document itself leaves open the possibility for the local priests and Bishops to reject the use of this types of blessings if they see it would cause some type of harm or confusion in the community. It is for this reason that we saw that all of the cardinals and Bishops in Africa send a letter to Pope Francis and Cardinal Fernandez saying they would not apply this types of blessings in their dioceses and the Pope responded saying: "Ok, no problem". Because the document itself allows them to decide on such matters
Catholics do not read the old testament This is why i don’t think it’s Mary. I feel The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. It’s also helpful to remember the exegetical placement of John’s intention with revelation. John is an exiled apostle on a guarded island whose outgoing letters are censored. To read Revelation extremely literally, or plainly would be a mistake. Please Keep that in mind here. First, let me poke the biggest hole using catholic theology in context. Catholic theology says that Marry gave birth painlessly to Jesus and that she remains a virgin afterwards. How could that be possible in light of Revelation 12:2? “She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.” in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.” the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10). the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.” the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27). Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church. So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This allowed the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome thus cutting off the Jews by means of their destruction. This is a loving criticism, not a damning anger lashing outburst. Revelation within itself shows you history fulfilled, and how the church continued after Jerusalem fell but you can’t know that unless you read the entire Tanakh.
Revelation was a vision presented to John in “signs,” meaning symbolic language was used. (Revelation 1:1) This vision about a “woman” in Revelation chapter 12 was given to the apostle John LONG AFTER Jesus’ human birth and after his anointing as God’s Messiah. This is obviously in reference to, not Jesus’ human birth, but to his being installed in Kingdom power. So the birth of God’s Messianic Kingdom was being pictured here. The apostle Paul also add the final piece of information when he says at Galatians 4:26: “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” The “woman” seen by John is “the Jerusalem above.” Jerusalem above is the Almighty’s universal organization of spirit creatures that act as his wife.
The woman in Revelation 12 is the true Israel of God. She comprises the seed of Abraham (Jews who are in Christ) and the truly saved Gentiles. Both have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb (Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world) and sealed with the Holy Spirit. The sun is a symbol of God Almighty, the moon symbolizes the true church (reflecting the glory of God), and the twelve stars are the twelve angels whom have been ordained over the twelve tribes of Israel (stars are always symbolic of angels). Although there are certain verses in this chapter that seem to suggest Mary as the woman, it is an alluding more to typology at best. We know for certain that the woman could not be one entity (Mary), since Rev.12: 15-17 speaks of the flood (the great flood) that the devil wanted to use against the woman (Noah and his family at the time) for her to be swept away with. In verse 17, we see that if the woman is Mary, then one would have to say that all those who are truly in Christ are Mary's children.This idea is not what God's word teaches.
Yes this is a good typology for Eve also. However, we know the second trumpet is a burning mountain thrown in to the sea, AND although the flood in 12:15-17 is spewed from the mouth of the Dragon (v. 15) and not from God himself necessarily. However, it is the earth that swallows up the flood to help the woman that Satan is going after. Unlike the flood of Noah where water came forth additionally from the earth as well. So the flood is not overtaking the entire earth as it goes after the Woman. Then the DRagon becomes angry with the Woman and wages war against her offspring "those who keep God's word (commandment) and bear witness (Gk. "martyria" or martyr) to Jesus". So what you say is a typology and pattern of the beginning but it is fulfilled in the end with the body of Christ, the Church (Eph. 1:22b-23a), of whom Jesus only receives flesh from Mary, who was handed over to the beloved disciple as his Mother, for she gave her humble will so that thy will (the Lord's will) be done, as the first Virgin and Christian born to bear forth his Image in us and one another (1 John 1:3 "we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ). Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.” the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10). the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.” the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27). Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7). Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church. So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
@@HillbillyBlack I like your analysis here. Let me just say that what you say about Catholics depends on who you are examining as a Catholic. All religious sisters and brothers, as well as priests, attend or celebrate Holy Mass daily. Every Catholic Church has Mass celebrated in it daily, and has been celebrated from of old just as in Acts 2:42, 46 ("They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers . . . EVERY DAY they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes"). Anyone can stop in and worship. At every Mass there is a reading from the Old Testament and a Gospel reading, with an extra reading from one of the new testament the letters on Sunday worship. So depending on whether you go to worship service every day, once a week, or only on Easter / Christmas, or not at all, will depend on your level of hearing the sacred Scriptures as a Catholic. Of course, we encourage everyone to read scripture daily and probably could encourage that more, but we do. I wish there was more adult education offered, but at some point we each are responsible for our own formation there also.
@@HillbillyBlack Regarding your analysis, let me just add that Mary calls herself Israel and also gives birth to the Church through her Son. She is the line of David (Micah 5:2-3 (1-2)) as is Joseph. o “My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has regarded the lowly state of *His maidservant* ; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name . . . 54 He has helped *His servant (singular) Israel* , In remembrance of His mercy, 55 As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.” - Luke 1:46b-49, 54-55 Micah 5:2(3) Therefore the Lord will give them up, *until the time when she who is to give birth has borne Then THE REST OF HIS KINDRED shall return to the children of Israel* . Isaiah 66:7 7 Before she is in labor, she gives birth; Before her pangs come upon her, she delivers a male child. Isaiah 66:8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or who ever saw the like? Can a land be brought forth in one day, or a nation be born in a single moment? Yet Zion was scarcely in labor when she bore her children. Heb. 9:11 “But when Christ came as High priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation” 2 Corinthians 5:17-21: 17 So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come. Luke 1:27-35 27 He came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to perform the custom of the law in regard to him, 28 he took him into his arms and blessed God, saying: 29 “Now, Master, you may let your servant go in peace, according to your word, 30 for my eyes have seen your salvation, 31 which you prepared in sight of all the peoples, 32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles, AND GLORY FOR YOUR PEOPLE ISRAEL.” 33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; 34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for THE FALL AND RISE OF MANY IN ISRAEL So the BODY OF CHRIST, the CHURCH is Israel, is the nation brought forth. We read in the Old Testament that Israel was now among the Gentiles, and Paul says there is no Jew or Greek only one body in Christ (“For IN ONE SPIRIT WE WERE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, WHETHER JEWS OR GREEKS, SLAVES OR FREE PERSONS, AND WE WERE ALL GIVEN TO DRINK OF ONE SPIRIT.” - 1 Cor. 12:13). Israel the nation became the Gentiles, mixed among them. Hosea 7:8; 8:8. 8 EPHRAIM IS MIXED WITH THE NATIONS, EPHRAIM IS AN UNTURNED CAKE. 9 Strangers have consumed his strength, but he does not know it; Gray hairs are strewn on his head, but he takes no notice of it. 10 THE ARROGANCE OF ISRAEL BEARS WITNESS AGAINST HIM; YET THEY DO NOT RETURN TO THE LORD, THEIR GOD, NOR SEEK HIM, DESPITE ALL THIS. - Hosea 7:8-10; 8 ISRAEL IS SWALLOWED UP; NOW THEY ARE AMONG THE NATIONS, like a useless vessel. - Hosea 8:8. “24 He said in reply,” *I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel* .” - Matthew 15:24. “4 *YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM CHRIST, YOU WHO ARE TRYING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW* YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.” - Galatians 5:4-5. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, A WILD OLIVE SHOOT, WERE GRAFTED IN THEIR PLACE AND HAVE COME TO SHARE IN THE RICH ROOT OF THE OLIVE TREE, 18 do not boast against the branches. If you do boast, consider that you do not support the root; the root supports you. . . . 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, [perhaps] he will not spare you either. - Romans 11:17-18, 21. “my brothers, *YOU ALSO WERE PUT TO DEATH TO THE LAW THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST* , so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God.” - Romans 7:4. “27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for *YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS* . 29 And *IF YOU BELONG TO CHRIST THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM’S DESCENDANT HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE* .” - Galatians 3:27-29. “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.” - Romans 10:12. Acts 2:39 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For THE PROMISE IS MADE TO YOU AND TO YOUR CHILDREN AND TO ALL THOSE FAR OFF, WHOMEVER THE LORD OUR GOD WILL CALL. “but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” - 1 Cor. 1:24. 25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles COMES IN, 26 AND THUS ALL ISRAEL will be saved. - Romans 11:25-26. “Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but *Christ is all and in all* .” - Gal. 3:11. Romans 2:29 29 Rather, ONE IS A JEW INWARDLY, and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not the letter; his praise is not from human beings but from God. Gal. 3:9, 28 9 Consequently, those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham who had faith . . . 28 THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, THERE IS NEITHER SLAVE NOR FREE PERSON, THERE IS NOT MALE AND FEMALE; FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 See, days are coming-oracle of the LORD-when I will make a new covenant with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors the day I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. They broke my covenant, though I was their master-oracle of the LORD. 33 But THIS IS THE COVENANT I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL Galatians 3:29 AND IF YOU BELONG TO CHRIST, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM’S DESCENDANT [SEED], HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE. So we see Mary who gives birth to Jesus Christ at verse 5, but we also see b bthe Church at verse 17. "the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus." For it is by Christ that we become one with him and we do the will of the father we testify to him giving birth through the Spirit to others in Christ." We are told that in the end times "I know the slander of those who claim to be Jews and are not, but rather are members of the assembly of Satan." Rev 2:9b and " Behold, I will make those of the assembly of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying, behold I will make them come and fall prostrate at your feet, and they will realize that I love you." - Rev. 3:9...so who is it that says they are Jew or the people of God today, but are not of Christ body? It might be those who call themselves Jew because as Paul says "18 Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19 So what am I saying? That meat sacrificed to idols is anything? Or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I mean that what they sacrifice, [they sacrifice] to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons." - 1 Cor 10:18-20, but this may be anyone whose Father is the Father of Lies, false prophets, deceivers, etc. ("as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur" Rev 21:8; or "15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit." - Rev. 22:15). One thing we know for sure, is that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Do you believe this? and if you do then you have eternal life. Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
Revelation 12 is Mary as Queen of heaven representing Isreal and the church.
Amen
Its both, good one.
@@dann285Is that sarcasm?
Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc.
in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.”
the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10).
the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.”
the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27).
Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7).
Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church.
So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
@dann285 It's literally Mary acting us a representative for us (the church) and Isreal. People can represent nations and congregations.
As a new catholic from Islam it was shocking to see how Protestants treat saints, prophets, and Mary, who is in fact the mother of God and queen of heaven. There is no mistaking it. Almost every criticism I have to defend from my Muslim community is heresies committed by prots and I have to explain how they defected from Christ's church to invent there own man made traditions and self serving interpretations. The silver lining is it has forced me into endless hours of research and it's deepened my faith exponentially.
Welcome:)
This is why i don’t think it’s Mary. I feel The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. It’s also helpful to remember the exegetical placement of John’s intention with revelation. John is an exiled apostle on a guarded island whose outgoing letters are censored. To read Revelation extremely literally, or plainly would be a mistake.
Please Keep that in mind here.
First, let me poke the biggest hole using catholic theology in context. Catholic theology says that Marry gave birth painlessly to Jesus and that she remains a virgin afterwards. How could that be possible in light of Revelation 12:2?
“She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.”
in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.”
the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10).
the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.”
the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27).
Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7).
Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church.
So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This allowed the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome thus cutting off the Jews by means of their destruction.
This is a loving criticism, not a damning anger lashing outburst. Revelation within itself shows you history fulfilled, and how the church continued after Jerusalem fell but you can’t know that unless you read the entire Tanakh.
I feel so happy for you and yes indeed these objections just deepens our faith as we go deeper into research and find out we are indeed in the right place.
@HillbillyBlack Thank you for responding. I really enjoyed the read. I would like some clarification, tho. Are you arguing against the Catholic position? I ask because if you are, you failed and didn't poke any holes in anything.
@@anonjohn7571 can you provide equal measurable exegesis to rebuttal my points? Otherwise you are just being an ass lol.
This is great, Joe, thank you! It’s also worth noting she alludes to it herself in the Magnificat when she calls herself “lowly” then later says God cast down the mighty from their thrones and lifted up the “lowly”
Greetings from Brazil.
The Woman in Revelation 12 has 4 Referents:
1) Israel, 2) The Church, 3) Eve and 4) Mary
1) She is ISRAEL because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from (Genesis 37:9-11)
2) The Woman is the CHURCH because as noted in Rev 12:17, "the rest of her offspring" are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians.
3) The Woman is EVE because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent and mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15
4) The Woman is MARY because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. (Psalm 2:9, Revelation 12:5)
But in a broader sense Mary represents Israel, Church, Eve and the Woman.
I like this. I would just add a fifth one, and what is often overlooked, but explicit in Revelation:
5) a sign in the sky; "A great sign appeared in the sky" (Rev 12:1).
@@Jesus3ITrustinThee Agreed. That is basically in there with Rev 12:5 in number 4.
The stronger case for why she is Mary is actually in Revelation 11:19. The Ark of the Covenant wherein God dwelt and let himself be carried around is shown to St. John as being physically present in heaven.
THE VERY NEXT VERSE (remember verse numbering is not in the original scrolls), St. John sees the woman in heaven, the woman wherein God dwelt, and where God let himself by carried around. Our Blessed Mother is the perfected Ark, she who experienced a closeness with God that no one else will experience and the sharing of his divine blood.
Imagine, we crave one drop of His precious blood for our healing and Blessed Mary experienced that intimacy with Jesus for 9 months!
@@alisterrebelo9013 I love that and that is very good insight, especially in that Luke who traditionally is said to have interviewed Mary at John's home in Ephesus in writing his gospel, compares Mary to the Ark of the Covenant in the old Testament. And here, we see John describing the Ark of the Covenant that can be seen from Heaven at 11:19, as the women giving birth to our Lord Jesus and the church at the same place (in heaven or the sky) right after in the very next verses. Amen.
Also I love sharing this, where it says in sacred Scripture she is all glorious within, and the Queen of Heaven standing at the one how is anointed (our Lord Jesus) as Queen.
Psalm 45:7-17 (NASB) (or 8-18 NABRE) 7 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions. 8 All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh, aloes, and cassia; From ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You joyful. 9 Kings’ daughters are among Your noble women; At Your right hand stands *THE QUEEN IN GOLD FROM OPHIR* . 10 Listen, daughter, look and incline your ear: Forget your people and your father’s house; 11 Then the King will crave your beauty. Because He is your Lord, bow down to Him. 12 The daughter of Tyre will come with a gift; The wealthy among the people will seek your favor. 13 THE *KING’S DAUGHTER IS ALL GLORIOUS WITHIN* ; Her clothing is interwoven with gold. 14 She will be brought to the King in colorful garments; THE VIRGINS, HER COMPANIONS WHO FOLLOW HER, WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU. 15 They will be brought with joy and rejoicing; They will enter into the King’s palace. 16 In place of your fathers will be your sons; You shall make them princes in all the earth. 17 *I WILL MAKE YOUR NAME KNOWN AMONG ALL GENERATIONS THEREFORE THE PEOPLES WILL PRAISE YOU FOREVER AND EVER* .
Compare with:
Luke 1:40-41, 46-50 she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and *Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit* 46 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has had regard for the humble state of His bond-servant; *FOR BEHOLD FROM NOW ON ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED FOR THE MIGHTY ONE HAS DONE GREAT THINGS FOR ME AND HOLY IS HIS NAME* . 50 And His mercy is to generation after generation Toward those who fear Him.
Heb. 9:11 “But when Christ came as High priest of the good things that have come to be, PASSING THROUGH THE GREATER AND MORE PERFECT TABERNACLE NOT MADE BY HUMAN HANDS, THAT IS TO SAY, IS NOT A PART OF THIS CREATION”).
" *ARISE O LORD INTO THY REST THOU AND THE ARK OF THY STRENGTH* ." - Psalm 132:8.
Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc.
in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.”
the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10).
the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.”
the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27).
Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7).
Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church.
So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
If Jesus is the new Davidic Queen then who is the Queen Mother? In the Old Testament the queen wasn't the King's wife it was his Mother. Example when Solomon became King, Bathsheba became queen (Around the lines from Dr. Brant Pitre).
HIGHLY recommend Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary by Dr. Brant Pitre for any Protestant or Catholic who would like to know answers regarding controversial beliefs of Mary and where they can be found in the bible.
Her description starts in Revelation 11 19
Scripture is clear that all the baptized wear the crown of glory and share in Jesus' kingship that restores dominion to those recreated in his image (halos on saint icons are one allusion to this). So if the apostles state that every believer wears a crown, why is it so difficult for one to admit that Mary is also coronated par excellence? Grace is a gift, but no one deserved a crown more than her (James 1:12; Revelation 2:10 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 5:4).
Given to me to share by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Rev. 12:1 was in the heavens on September 23, 2017, on the Feast of Trumpets. Literally, Virgo was bathed in the sun with the moon at her feet and three planets in Leo. This is such a rare alignment, last alignment being in 3973 BC at the fall of Adam. The sign was on the feast of trumpets in 2017. It does not set a date, but it does tell us the season and we are the last generation. HIS Mazzaroth was HIS plan of salvation written in the constellations lost to time. Virgo and Leo are the two constellations full circle from the fall to the Kingdom or Gen. 3:15 to CHRIST seated on HIS throne in the Millennium.
Rev. 12:2 look at Isa. 66:7 Israel didn't travail when JESUS was born, the woman did travail In holocaust before the Nation of Israel was born May 14th, 1948.
Rev. 12:3 says to look at the constellation Dragon. The 7 heads are the states that became the Arab League of States. They make a pact with the Nazis in 1939 against the Jewish people aka "woman". The constellation dragon has in its tail Ursa Minor where we get the swastika symbol. Polaris is surrounded by the dragon making it visible both day and night, Rev. 12:10 accusing.
Rev. 12:4 "And the tail (with swastika) drew (into ghettos and death camps) the one third (6 million) of the stars of heaven (Abraham's seed; Gen. 22:17) and did cast them to the ground (murdered and burned in holocaust), and the dragon (Arab League of States) stood before the woman (children of Israel) which was ready to be delivered (Isa.66:8) so to devour her child (Newborn Nation of Israel) as soon as it was born (the dragon beast attacked the day Israel was born).
Rev.12:5 is the Rapture "Harpazo" of the Body of Christ aka the Gentile Church. JESUS was not Harpazo: violently snatched away HE was "eperthe" slowly lifted up in the clouds. Second, JESUS was a man at HIS ascension. We are to be like a child to enter the Kingdom of GOD, hence "man child"; Mat. 18:2-5.
Rev. 12:6 the 70th week of Daniel begins.
Rev. 12:7-10 is a war of accusations over the man child. aka just Raptured Body of CHRIST aka Gentile Church; Jude 9. Like Moses was accused with railing accusations so will satan accuse us.
Rev. 12:11 in Heaven the Testimony of the Blood of CHRIST on the Mercy Seat is presented to satan and he is rebuked by our Testimony confidence in GOD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
Rev. 12:12 we rejoice at the Wedding supper of the Lamb dwelling in Heaven. Woe to the inhabitants on the earth satan knows his time is 7 years short.
@@rickhuntling7338 you're delusional
@@MomoTheFalseProphet it's not for your eyes to see nor ears to hear.
You're dismissed, Mat. 7:6
Amen🙏
Mary, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us.
Check Ezekiel 1,26:
Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a *throne of lapis lazuli*, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man.
Our Lady is often represented with a blue mantle, "*The Lady in Blue*".
It's interesting.
In Revelation 12, we see a tableaux with a female figure bearing a child. We know the child is the Messiah by the reference, "destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod" -- which recalls the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 2:7 -
"The Lord said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod; you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.'"
Now, if the child in Revelation 12 is Jesus, the woman from whom he issues can only be Mary. Here's why:
We see a vision of her in the heavens, clothed in the sun, wearing a crown, a symbol of royalty: "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days...
"When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commands and bear witness to Jesus."
Queen of Heaven
Much is made of the title Queen of Heaven by those who attack Catholicism and Marian devotion. The allusion is always to the pagan pantheons and to the mother of the gods, often mother in a very carnal sense of other pagan deities. The Canaanite worship of the "Queen of Heaven" condemned by the prophets is mentioned, as is the worship of Diana of the Ephesians, devotion to whom was exceeding popular before the Gospel arrived among the pagans. It is said that Catholicism at the Council of Ephesus restored this pagan devotion under the cover of devotion to Mary. The history of that Council given above shows the absurdity, and the intellectual dishonesty, of that claim! One might as well claim with respect to Jesus that Christians worship a mere man, since to arrive at this conclusion the Church's teaching must be ripped from its context and distorted to fit a preconceived judgement.
What then does it mean for Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? In the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne.
The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation,
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)
Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.
[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)
That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ
The woman spoken of in Revelation 12 is Mary. A few observations:
• The woman is a great sign and appears in heaven. This is the Catholic view of Mary--that she has an important role in heaven and in the plan of redemption.
• She is clothed with the sun, has the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. In the passage in Gen 37:9-10 the sun, moon and stars bow down to Joseph. This point is often missed by commentators. Therefore, Mary has a role similar to Joseph's in providing redemption to God's people. Joseph "saved" the Israelites and ruled over them just as Mary "saves" the church and rules over it.
• Mary gives birth to the Messiah. This is the only literal meaning of the text.
• Satan was cast down to earth as a result of events surrounding Christ's birth. Satan went after the child Jesus with a vengeance as we see in Herod's decree to kill the children.
• Mary escapes to the desert--to Egypt, for safety and to protect Jesus. She was there for three and a half years.
• Jesus was snatched up to God and His throne at His ascension.
• Satan was unable to harm the child Jesus so he went off to destroy the rest of Mary's offspring. Notice who these are--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Mary's other offspring are the church. She had no other children other than Jesus. She is the spiritual mother of the church.🤣🤣
thanks for this 🙏🏻
@@bibleman8010 okay so two things i have a question about why do catholics consider mary a virgin because of mark 6:3 its says "Is he not the carpenter ,the son of mary ,and the brother of james and joses and judas and simon?"also another verse Mark 3:31-35 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Your mother and Your brothers are outside asking for You.” And He replied, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” Looking at those who were sitting in a circle around Him, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!"
Now my second question why do catholics say mary saves the church yes i grant you her job was important and myabe she is the queen of heaven, i dont want to say something wrong regarding this part,i dont know but Jesus says i am the way the truth and the life whosoever cometh onto ME shall not perish but have everlasting life onto me ,he didnt mention mary in this role and if it is a thing i would appreciate some bible verses to back it up ,thank you.
Im just trying to learn though i dont mean to hurt anyone if mh comments offend i just want to know the truth thats all
Prior to bodily assumption of Mary coming in as a belief at all in the late 5th century alot of Church Fathers interpreted Revelation 12 as the church and after that you slowly begin to see a shift towards an interpretation of Mary.
The passage does not say that the woman is a "queen", so this is being read into the text. Sure, theres a crown, but that could mean many different things. And yes it could also mean "queen". But the queen does not have to be a "queen mother". It could simply refer to the wife of the king, in which case the church being the bride of Christ is wife of the King Jesus and is therefore a "queen" in this sense too. I personally think its about Israel/the Church as theres nothing that indicates its especially about Mary (only superficially it is). I think this is further supported when you consider the narrative in Rev 12 about the woman being persecuted and hidden in the wilderness and given "wings". That never happened to Mary.
So to me, the data fits better with it being about Israel/Church since there are several passages in the OT describing Israel as a woman about to give birth and also Isaiah 9:6 which says, "for unto us a child is born", which would typologically point to the woman giving birth to the male child. Plus the vision of Joseph in Gen 37:9 - which is really a connection with Israel since it includes himself and his other 11 brothers - this has a better typological connection with Revelation 12 than anything written about Mary. Mary is never described in this way.
So in summary. Could you say its about Mary? Yeah you could attempt to. But you immediately run into problems that do not make sense of the entire narrative. You only have a superficial similarity for about 3 seconds and then that similarity no longer makes sense. Whereas the connection between the woman and Israel/The Church is much stronger and makes better sense of the narrative and also the data.
Here's GK Beale's exposition and it makes a lot more sense that this is primarily about the believing community as a whole (Israel/Church) rather than about Mary:
"1 After the temple scene of 11:19, John sees a great sign which appeared in heaven. He first sees a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Vv. 2-6 reveal that this woman is a picture of the faithful community, which existed both before and after the coming of Christ. This identification is based on the OT precedent, where sun, moon, and eleven stars metaphorically represent Jacob, his wife, and eleven of the tribes of Israel (Gen. 37:9), who bow down to Joseph, representing the twelfth tribe. Song of Solomon 6:10 was used in later Jewish literature to describe Israel in terms of the sun, the moon, and the stars, and restored Israel (which in Revelation is identified as the church) is described similarly in Isa. 60:19-20. In fact, in Isaiah a woman often represents the picture of restored Israel (e.g., 52:2; 54:1-6; 61:10; 62:1-5), and Isa. 62:3, 5 prophesies that restored Israel will be like a bride wearing a crown. The brightness of the woman’s appearance (clothed with the sun) reflects the same brightness in the face of Christ (1:16). Her glory is the reflected glory of Christ. Just as the sun, moon, and stars appear far from earth and immune from destruction by any earthly force, so also true Israel of the OT and NT epochs is ultimately indestructible on earth because ultimate identity is in heaven (mention of Michael, Israel’s heavenly representative and protector [Dan. 12:1], in vv. 7-8 points further to this). That the woman represents both the old and new covenant communities becomes even clearer in vv. 11-17, where her seed or offspring is not only Christ but also the entire community of His followers.
The crown on her head is best defined from within Revelation itself. It represents the saints’ share in Christ’s kingship and the reward which the true people of God throughout the ages receive for their victory over opposition to their faith (i.e., over persecution, temptations to compromise, and deception; so 2:10; 3:11; 4:4, 10; cf. 14:14). The stellar brightness of her appearance reflects the powerful and pure sunlight arising from God’s and Christ’s glorious image (as in 1:16; 10:1; 21:23; 22:5).
2 The woman is in labor and in pain to give birth. Catholic commentators have written an immense amount of literature arguing that the heavenly woman symbolizes Mary, the mother of Jesus. Though the mother of Jesus may be secondarily in mind, the primary focus is not on an individual but on the community of faith, within which the messianic line ultimately yielded a kingly offspring. This is evident, not only from the discussion of v. 1, but also from observing in the remainder of the chapter that the woman is persecuted, flees into the desert, and has other offspring than just the Messiah, offspring who are described as faithful Christians. The woman’s birth-pangs refer to the persecution of the covenant community and the messianic line during OT times and especially the intertestamental period leading up to Christ’s birth. The idea of persecution is expressed in the phrase in pain (literally “being tormented”), since the verb (Greek basanizō) is used in the NT of the suffering of punishment, trial, and persecution (Matt. 8:29; Mark 5:7; 6:48; Luke 8:28; 2 Pet. 2:8). The suggestion is that the woman is being tormented and suffering as she attempts to give birth, which fits with a picture of the faithful Jewish community being persecuted in the period leading up to the birth of Christ. It was a trial to continue to wait for the great deliverance which the Messiah would finally bring at His coming (cf. Luke 2:25-38). In John 16:19-22, Christ compares the grief of His disciples over His impending death to a woman about to give birth who “has sorrow” and is about to bear a child. There, in line with our view of Rev. 12:2, the disciples represent the mother, the messianic community, in the midst of which the Christ was born in resurrection, and which would later present the resurrected Christ to the world. In Rev. 12:2 it is, however, Christ’s first birth that is in mind and not this later resurrection birth."
- Revelation, a Shorter Commentary, GK Beale, 2015
Thanks for the video❤. Good one. Many of you guys are right. All representations are included. Jews, Eve, Mary, Israel and Church.
The last journey to Medugorje "when you fall asleep, you'll die" really happened on 23rd September. 😉
Repenting sinner, Mary, studying for 8 years under Antichrist at University and whose final work was about Jews came to Mary Our Lady in Medugorje for shelter and protection.
Evil woman, head of the trip and accommodation, wanted to kill her. Ukrainian woman betrayed Mary and let the evil woman sit next to her during Mass.
Mary put down the neon jacket and in a blue top was looking for a new place and a new accommodation. Some ignored her despite having received Eucharistia just a few mins ago.
Some wanted to help her. One girl asked her if she wasnt cold and went with her to buy brown jacket as a symbol of penance.
Despite the camouflage, the evil woman, knowing her in the neon jacket, found her in the brown and Mary, suffering long time in fears, was screaming "Holy Trumphant Church, Holy Trimphant Church!"
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with THE REST OF HER OFFSPRING, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I feel like its about me
The woman in revelation 12, was the stick of Judah, out of the house of Israel who came to Christ. Mary was a part of the stick of Judah. The 1260 days was from April 11, AD70 to September 22, AD73. That last day was their last day on earth. Those 1260 days were when the two sticks mentioned in Ezekiel 37, were one stick. The stick of Joseph had already arrived to their gathering before the stick of Judah did. The book of Revelation mentions the harlot (house of Israel who committed spiritual fortification, by rejecting their husband and chose Caesar over Christ when they cried out to crucify Christ). The book of revelation also mentions two other “woman”. One was stick of Joseph, and the other stick of Judah. The woman mentioned in revelation 12, was stick of Judah. Again, Mary was a part of the stick of Judah.
Do Apocalypse 12:18 vs Revelation 13:1❤
As a revert from atheism (~16 years or so) it always baffled me how anyone, Christian or non-Christian western could read those passages and not once think it meant, among other things (Israel and so on, and so forth), the Virgin Mary.
The amount of mental gymnastics protestants do to think: "it can mean this, it can mean that, it can mean ALL these things, but not Mary, no no no".
Also the Catholic church teaches that Mary gave birth without pain, but if Mary is the woman in revelation then she does have pain...
she had pain prebirth and the birth was painless. Big difference.
You might well imagine, those early in power within a body called 'the church' got hold of information they didn't quite understand. As with all good religions, they have a story to tell. In this case, the information they had was manipulated to tell a story other than 'the truth' of what was going on. In fact, the woman in Revelation 12, as seen in the vision, was delivering the man or male child, not the Christ child.
Jesus, as we all know to be the way the truth and the life as well as he and the Father are one, and hopefully love, was born the Christ child, and there will be none like him ever born again.
With this said, the child in Revelation 12 is not the Christ child born of flesh and blood, since this child is snatched up to the throne room of God. We were clearly told the kingdom is within, we know the throne room of God is within the mind of man. The man child is born of water and spirit (unless you become as a little child born of water and spirit...)
Jesus told us about the sheep gate, and we know the sheep gate is where we are counted as one with the Father through the Son.
Jesus told us the way leading to life is narrow and few find it and we know the woman in Revelation 12 is delivering the one child within man and this child is he who enters the narrow way leading to life few find. How do we know this? The woman in Revelation 12 is in labour, she's crying out, and what is she saying? You must hear her cry, liken to wisdom in the streets.
The woman in Revelation 12 conceived correct the truth, with the Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Now those who lack wisdom to understand, who are foolish in their thinking carnal in nature, always look to the world to understand whats being said and this, is in error called the broadway leading to death.
The woman in Revelation 12 asked Lord Jesus for the truth. She asked him, as she was preparing to die, not holding onto life anymore, she asked him to tell her whats going on. Pretty simple.
This innocent asking is liken to the story of the Sword in the Stone.
In this, the last day, called the 3rd day where the dead in Christ are the first to rise up with him, she cries out to many and though many hear her, only a few understand.
The elected of Christ are the first to rise up that is to say, be raised up a Christ with the Lord Jesus, along the narrow way leading to life, coming into the Fathers presence, and the Father is the light.
You see, there is a tiny misunderstanding, called a sliver in the eye. Many will not want to see, thus the beam and yet, as its written, not all shall sleep (for soul does sleep within man liken to beauty for she is the wisdom of Him who is She) yet we shall all be changed, thus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord.
How do I know this, and in truth, you may think "What?"
I am she.
And the name is Mary, sister to the messiah who is my Lord and saviour, he is my Father who is the Christ.
Go figure.
M
Note this snippet: *"And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems"* (Revelation 12:1-3).
The wife is the Jerusalem Church of Christ, it is in Jerusalem that the Church must appear, and the dragon points to the appearance of the Antichrist. Both are signs. Ask yourself the question, signs of what? Signs of the imminent return of Christ.
For the appearance of the Church and the Antichrist will foreshadow the soon return of Christ.
*"She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,"* (Revelation 12:5).
The male child is the two witnesses, the birth is their resurrection, they are the firstfruits of the Church, in their person the heavenly kingdom is born.
As written: *"But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them."* (Revelation 11:11-12).
The two witnesses are the first overcomers who will be resurrected and ascended to heaven.
As Jesus said: *"The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father."* (Revelation 2:26-27).
About the verse: *"Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea."* (Revelation 12:17).
*"the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God"* are the rest of the churches, that is, from the seed of the Jerusalem Church.
______________________________________________________
Reading the books of the New Testament, we perhaps asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years?
The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20).
Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist.
Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
Re: Revelation 12:1
"The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh."
St. Victorinus of Pettau
300 AD
The prophetic scripture and the Revelation 12 woman have several meanings. Scripture tells us one of them for this explicitly: "A great sign appeared in the sky" (Rev 12:1). We cannot discount this very important and explicit meaning. This occurred over Jerusalem on September 23, 2017 as noted by reporting of the Vatican Observatory, which was on the Feast of Shabbat Shuva ("Sabbath of the Return"). The Dragon sign followed on December 17, 2017 on the 6th day of Hanukkah over Jerusalem on "Rosh Chodesh - "the new month" or "new moon").
Regarding, Mary as Queen of Heaven, another meaning of this "sign" (Gk. sēmeion or σημεῖον):
Psalm 45:7-17 (NASB) (or 8-18 NABRE) 7 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions. 8 All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh, aloes, and cassia; From ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You joyful. 9 Kings’ daughters are among Your noble women; At Your right hand stands *THE QUEEN IN GOLD FROM OPHIR* . 10 Listen, daughter, look and incline your ear: Forget your people and your father’s house; 11 Then the King will crave your beauty. Because He is your Lord, bow down to Him. 12 The daughter of Tyre will come with a gift; The wealthy among the people will seek your favor. 13 THE *KING’S DAUGHTER IS ALL GLORIOUS WITHIN* ; Her clothing is interwoven with gold. 14 She will be brought to the King in colorful garments; THE VIRGINS, HER COMPANIONS WHO FOLLOW HER, WILL BE BROUGHT TO YOU. 15 They will be brought with joy and rejoicing; They will enter into the King’s palace. 16 In place of your fathers will be your sons; You shall make them princes in all the earth. 17 *I WILL MAKE YOUR NAME KNOWN AMONG ALL GENERATIONS THEREFORE THE PEOPLES WILL PRAISE YOU FOREVER AND EVER*
Compare with:
Luke 1:40-41, 46-50 she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and *Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit* 46 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has had regard for the humble state of His bond-servant; *FOR BEHOLD FROM NOW ON ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED FOR THE MIGHTY ONE HAS DONE GREAT THINGS FOR ME AND HOLY IS HIS NAME* . 50 And His mercy is to generation after generation Toward those who fear Him.
The woman is also the Church. " Colossians 1:24 24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking[n] in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the Church";
The woman is also Israel or Jerusalem: "But THE JERUSALEM ABOVE IS FREEBORN, AND SHE IS OUR MOTHER." - Gal 4:26;
She is anyone who does the will of the Father and gives life by their witness to Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to others as members of the Church. "For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”- Mt. 12:50; 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” - Mt. 28:29-20.
Who is the woman in Revelation 12?
The woman of the Apocalypse-described as being “clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars” (verse 1)-represents Old Testament Israel. In the Old Testament, God referred to His people as a woman whom He had dressed in honor and splendor (Ezekiel 16). The garland with 12 stars may be symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel (Genesis 37:9-10).
Isnt it virgo constellation also
no
Doesn’t it go against church doctrine to teach that Mary felt birth pangs?
How do we know it's Mary and not Israel? It could be one or the other, or both. But just as the church is the bride, Israel could be the queen/ mother.
It's Africa 🌍
Depends on what commentators you research. From my research spanning Catholic and Protestant theologians it can either mean the literal mother of Christ, Mary, or it could be the faithful Israel/Jewish Church. Since this is clearly a biased channel ill give an example of a Catholic commentary:
Cambridge Greek Testament Commentary - Who is this? The two answers most commonly given are (1) the Virgin Mary, (2) the Church. Neither seems quite satisfactory. There can indeed be little doubt that the Son born of this woman is the Son of Mary: nor ought theological or ecclesiastical considerations to exclude the view that Mary is herself intended by the mother; the glory ascribed to her is no greater than that of a glorified saint (Daniel 12:3 ; St Matthew 13:43 ), and St John was not bound to suppress a truth for fear of the false inference Pius V. or Pius IX. might seek to draw from it. But it is not in harmony with the usage of this book for a human being, even a glorified saint, to be introduced in his personal character: if St John saw (see on 4:4, 5:5) himself , who was not yet glorified, sitting among the elders, it is plain that it is typical, not personal, glory or blessedness that this description indicates. Who then, or what, is the typical or mystical Mother of Christ? Not the Christian Church, which in this book as elsewhere is represented as His wife: but the Jewish Church , the ideal Israel, “the daughter of Zion.” See especially Micah 4:10 , Micah 5:3 : where it is her travail from which He is to be born Who is born in Bethlehem. This accounts for the only features that support the other view, the appearance in her glory of the Sun, Moon, and stars of Song of Solomon 6:10 , and the mention of “the remnant of her seed” in v. 17.
The Woman in Revelation 12 has 4 Referents:
1) Israel, 2) The Church, 3) Eve and 4) Mary
1) She is ISRAEL because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from (Genesis 37:9-11)
2) The Woman is the CHURCH because as noted in Rev 12:17, "the rest of her offspring" are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians.
3) The Woman is EVE because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent and mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15
4) The Woman is MARY because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. (Psalm 2:9, Revelation 12:5)
But in a broader sense Mary represents Israel, Church, Eve and the Woman.
Where in Revelation chapter 12 does it say that the woman is a Queen?? Answer, nowhwere.
Sir, it's a woman clothed with with very special clothes (the sun), and has a Crown over her head with stars. That description corresponds with what we normally picture a Queen to look like. It's the same thing if i said: I saw an animal, it was a gigant lizard with wings to fly and a very tough skin, who could breath fire and destroy cities. And someone said: "¿A dragon?". And you said: "No, it coudn't possibly be a Dragon, he didn't use the word dragon in his description". It is at least the most plausible interpretation that i am, indeed, referring to a dragon.
@@MarcoAntoniov. The woman is Isreal. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Isreal.
@@dann285 The woman spoken of in Revelation 12 is Mary. A few observations:
• The woman is a great sign and appears in heaven. This is the Catholic view of Mary--that she has an important role in heaven and in the plan of redemption.
• She is clothed with the sun, has the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. In the passage in Gen 37:9-10 the sun, moon and stars bow down to Joseph. This point is often missed by commentators. Therefore, Mary has a role similar to Joseph's in providing redemption to God's people. Joseph "saved" the Israelites and ruled over them just as Mary "saves" the church and rules over it.
• Mary gives birth to the Messiah. This is the only literal meaning of the text.
• Satan was cast down to earth as a result of events surrounding Christ's birth. Satan went after the child Jesus with a vengeance as we see in Herod's decree to kill the children.
• Mary escapes to the desert--to Egypt, for safety and to protect Jesus. She was there for three and a half years.
• Jesus was snatched up to God and His throne at His ascension.
• Satan was unable to harm the child Jesus so he went off to destroy the rest of Mary's offspring. Notice who these are--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Mary's other offspring are the church. She had no other children other than Jesus. She is the spiritual mother of the church.🤣🤣
Hi Dan,
If Jesus is the new Davidic Queen then who is the Queen Mother? In the Old Testament the queen wasn't the King's wife it was his Mother. Example when Solomon became King, Bathsheba became queen (Around the lines from Dr. Brant Pitre).
HIGHLY recommend to you Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary by Dr. Brant Pitre for if you would like to know answers regarding controversial beliefs of Mary and where they can be found in the bible.
@@dann285 The interpretation of the Woman as Israel is also a validly recognized interpretation by the church. It is also true that a single simbol can have more than one thing that it is alluding to. And based on the conections made previously on why the woman also could be seen as the Virgin Mary, it is also a valid interpretation of this.
But where is it written that this “woman” is enthroned in heaven? You’re taking liberties with the text. It says that there will be a “sign” in heaven, not a woman. The New Testament speaks of ‘signs in heaven’ multiple times. This “sign”, it is written, will appear. The church wants to make a “sign” into a literal woman. Revelation 17 has another “woman”. Who is this woman who is drunk on the blood of the saints and martyrs? Is she literal too? Nothing against the Mother of our Lord here, I’m just wanting people to think of these texts with a sober mind. If John had written that a woman would appear, then fine, assume it’s Mary, but I think he chose his words for a reason.
Something to consider, Catholic friends, that might change your viewpoint on who this queen is. It is believed that Mary, being perfect, did not experience the pain of birth like most women would feel. If you believe that to be true, please review Revelation 12:2 which says, "She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth." In light of that, do you still think this queen is Mary and maybe she wasn't perfect, just chosen by God, and experienced birth like every other woman? Or, can you leave room to think that maybe the queen in Rev 12 isn't Mary at all?
Rev. 12:1 tells us explicitly the woman is a sign in the sky or heaven. The “birth pangs” could refer to Mary’s trials before the birth of Jesus, the pain she felt at the Cross, during which she became a spiritual mother to John (and by extension all believers) at John 19:25-27, as well as the pain experienced by the people of God both before the Messiah’s birth and after his resurrection during Roman persecution.
Mary’s suffering was prophesied about by Simeon, where he says to Mary “you yourself a sword will pierce: “22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons . . . 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. - Luke 2: 22-24, 34-35.
Not only does Mary give birth to Jesus, but to his body, which should be obvious. The word of God calls the body of Jesus the Church. Mary by her eternal fiat and the suffering she was destined for alongside her son's on the cross gives birth to not only her son but his body that is the Church (Eph. 1:22-23; 3:20-21; 5:23-29; Colossians 1:18, 24).
21 When a woman is in labor, she is in anguish because her hour has arrived; but when she has given birth to a child, she no longer remembers the pain because of her joy that a child has been born into the world. 22 So you also are now in anguish. But I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you. 23 On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. - John 16:21-23.
Isaiah 66:7 7 Before she is in labor,
she gives birth;
Before her pangs come upon her,
she delivers a male child.
The prophet Isaiah goes on to read:
8 “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?
Can a land be born in one day?
Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons."
So we see Mary is the Mother of our Incarnate God, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, as well as of the beloved Apostle by command of our Lord on the cross (John 19:26), but also of all those who follow her Son, because we are his body.
"19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 21 Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord" - Ephesians 2:19-21.
Come Lord Jesus. Amen.
I believe the woman to represent multiple things, but foremost scripture is clear on what it is "A great sign appeared in the sky". Anything after that is probably accurate as well if we want to say, Mary, the Church, Israel, or Eve. The woman can be every one of these. But foremost it is a sign in the sky. This sign occurred on September 23, 2017 over Jerusalem on the same day as as the Feast of Shabbat Shuva (“Sabbath of the Return”). Interestingly, Rosh Hashana, or the Feast of Trumpets (YomTeruah) is on October 2, 2024 is about 7 years, 10 days after Sept. 23, 2017.
Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is ten days after that.
The Dragon sign (Rev 12:3 "Then another sign appeared in the sky) appears over Jerusalem on December 17, 2017: sixth day of Hanukkah, Dec. 13-20, 2017, also known as the Festival of Lights, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem. You can see it in Stellarium, a free online astronomy software.
The “Taking-up” event in the sky ended about July 7-9, 2018 at Jupiter being at the peak of Libra along the ecliptic over Jerusalem before continuing completely along the ecliptic in the other direction again crossing through Scorpio and out of view.
Tisha B’av or the 9th of Av, the mourning of the destruction of the Holy Temple.
Rev 15:1 "Then I saw in heaven another sign, great and awe-inspiring [marvellous / amazing]: seven angels with the seven last plagues, for through them God’s fury is accomplished."
Seven planets (often considered "wandering stars', as referred to in Jude v.13) lines up with the Constellation Pleiades, also called the Constellation of the Seven Stars or Seven Sisters. The Seven Angels in Revelation are called Seven Stars (Rev 1:20). It also is in the shape of a tilted cup above, and ancients called it a grape cluster, which could also have a connection to the harvest of clusters in Rev. 14; for further research.
March 28, 2024 alignment begins (Total Eclipse is on April 8, 2024) all seven planets align along the ecliptic and with Pleaides on the other side of the sun opposite earth, a very rare event.
I think God has set the story in the sky for us to observe as a means of preparation like the 7 years of plenty and the 7 years of famine.
Matthew 24:45 45 “Who, then, is the faithful and prudent servant [doulos, bond-servant], whom the master has put in charge of his household to distribute to them their food at the proper time?
o 46 Blessed is that "servant" whom his master on his arrival finds doing so.
o The word for servant here is "Bond-servant", so the word is servant or slave, or freed slave.
o The answer to Jesus riddle is Joseph. He was the only slave in the Bible who was put in charge of a household to distribute food at the proper time for the Seven years of plenty and the SEven years of famine that followed.
@@Jesus3ITrustinThee Wait, but vs 23 says that Jesus was born of an open womb. This goes against Catholic church teaching that Jesus was born "clauso utero" and that Mary didn't birth Jesus in the normal way so that, according to important Catholic doctrine, Mary is perpetually a virgin. There seems to be quite a few verses that have scripture that actively opposes Catholic teaching versus what the infallible word of God teaches. Jesus was born of Mary. This is indisputable. He wasn't miraculously in her womb and then in her arms in swaddling clothes in an instant. She went through the act of child birth. Either she did that without pain or she did. In Protestantism, it doesn't matter which, because other than a general doctrine of Mary being blessed among women, that aspect doesn't matter to the life, ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, her son.
If you need her to have a virgin birth, free from pain because she is without sin herself, then she can't be the woman in Revelation 12 "crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth" that you need her to be. That woman also apparently had other children, which Catholics also Mary never had. Verse 17 says she had other offspring. The Greek there for offspring is "loypoi autos sperma" - the remnant of her seed. Hard to say those are cousins, or adopted kids, or other general Christians. Her seed.
@@ToeTag1968 Good comment. I’ll try to clarify some things if you are interested.
Whether Mary experienced pain at birth, or not, is not a defined teaching for Catholics, but has been a subject of debate throughout history. It does not have the same level of dogma as Mary being a “perpetual virgin”. However, the “perpetual virgin” dogma does not rely on whether Mary had birth pangs or whether a physical hymen was present or not, for example. These discussions are centered around various early writings at the time like the Protoevenagelium of James (Gospel of James) which had to have been in circulation before 150 AD because it is referenced by other early writings of that time. Instead, the subject of the birth pains is cited as one of the many reasons for belief in another Marian dogma called the “immaculate conception”. It is not the only reason by far. There are four Marian dogmas defined by the Catholic Church: “perpetual virginity”, “immaculate conception”, “theotokos or mother of God” and Mary’s Assumption.
The “immaculate conception” states Mary was formed without original sin. Original sin is the curse of Adam and Eve that occurred through sin entering the world so that it affected all creation; one aspect of which at Gen 3:16, God would “increase” birth pains at child birth. This does not necessarily mean that women never would have had any pain at birth before the fall of Adam and Eve, because God says he will multiply the woman’s sorrow or pain at birth and at conception, rather than saying there will now be pain.
There are different circles or groups of belief among Catholics in history who discuss the birth pangs and miraculous birth from various writings: some say Mary had a normal birth, and others that the birth was miraculous. This comes from different historical writings, which I’ll leave to you to dig into if you wish. I’m not super interested in the discussion really. If you are interested in any “Catholic” arguments among them, add the word catholic to any google search and you can learn about the discussions. There are a lot of writings from the first century that didn’t make it into canon, even written by the Apostles, but can still be read, especially by gnostics and other groups of people that were often countered by Christian leaders of the time in their writings.
Let me just say: Mary’s “perpetual virginity” is not just taught by those of the Latin Rite (Roman) Catholics, but has been taught also by Orthodox Catholics, Eastern Rite Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Reformed. Martin Luther recognized the perpetual virginity of Mary, although his descendants have not. Not that this matters, except that it has been in discussions for a long time.
Why is the “ever virgin” Marian dogma even significant is probably a better question? Because it testifies to Jesus Christ our Lord, who is FULLY GOD and FULLY HUMAN. It points to what we will be like beyond this life and the power that Jesus Christ can have in our lives - in nutshell.
@@ToeTag1968 At the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D., Mary was officially given the title “Ever-virgin.” A century later, Pope Martin I clarified that by this the Church’s means to say that Mary was a virgin before, during, and after Christ’s birth.
Mary’s perpetual virginity matters because its truth has implications that matter to all of us; namely, points beyond her life to the world that is to come, a world in which there will be no more marriage and we will all be as Mary was. “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven,” Jesus told the Sadducees (Matt. 22:30). Mary’s virginity is a pre-figurement of heaven, the reward for those who say to God, with Mary, “Thy will be done.”
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “Christ’s birth ‘did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it.” (CCC 499) And this point deserves special notice: the virgin birth was not simply a neat trick, a miracle used to “wow” people, something to indicate that something special occurred. It was a clear indicator that Mary was set aside (and set herself aside, by her fiat, or her willing submission of her to will to God’s will) for service to God, conforming her will with the will of God. She was set apart by her virginity, and her virginity was sanctified by Our Lord in his birth.
The virgin birth-and Mary’s perpetual virginity-are signs of Mary’s total consecration to God, single-minded service to him, and utter abandonment to his will. She is the model of the first Christian and what we are called to be in our union with the body of Christ, the Church (Eph. 1:22-23).
The Gospel of James, which of course is not canon, is a writing referenced in many other early writings and "traditions" like art, liturgical calendars and others that are more customs. It explains the birth of Jesus. This is significant if it was written by James, the brother of Jesus, who in this same writing, the author claims to be the brother of Jesus as the son of Joseph by his marriage to Mary. This is the same James how headed the Orthodox branch of the Church in the early days, visited Peter, was called a pillar by Paul (Galatians 2:9), and spoke as a leader of the first church council in Acts at Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 15:13-21.
Anyway there is a lot here. The bottom line is we are each made pure in Christ, as imagers of the Father, so that all glory be given to him. Although Jesus was humbled himself to become a slave he enters creation restoring it from sin to himself. This was and is the plan of God to bring us all into one in him through his Son. "when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation" - Heb. 9:11. This tabernacle was Mary who housed God himself, because Jesus is fully God and fully man as the incarnate God. God chose her, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you" just as he says of the prophet Jeremiah "a prophet to the nations I appointed you". Mary too was appointed, dedicated and known by God before her birth, consecrated and kept from harm that her flesh might be the flesh of our God, born so that we may be set free from our sins and restored in his grace like Mary, the first Christian and mother of the body of Christ, the Church. Amen.
Try reading your bible and not just making assumptions. Genesis 37:9. Joseph has a dream and there is sun, moon, and 11 stars. The stars will represent the 12 tribes of Israel because Joseph here does not include himself as the 12th star yet. In Revelation it is speaking about Israel. Jesus was Jewish and as a nation gave birth to Jesus. Ezekiel 8:14. The women are weeping for Tamuz or what they thought was the queen of heaven. Jeremiah 7:18,44:17-19, 44:25. Burning and offering to the queen of heaven, which God condemns.
We are not burning or offering anything to her though, all we ask if for her to help pray to God. Also don't you think it's abhorently disrespectful to liken the mother of our Lord to a mesopotamian goddess of fertility, which Jeremiah was clearly referencing to?
Revelation 12 has nothing to do with Mary. Did JESUS give those accounts to the Angel to Show to John? And if you had read Revelation 12. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. Did you see "Her Child was Snacked up by God". Jesus was 33 years old, and this was a child, not a grown man! You'll all need to pay attention... LIFE
@@debraannmartinez7157 Protestant gymnastics at it again.
@@PatronSaintKolbe93@PatronSaintKolbe93 I need to figure out where you're going with this! But I do not like sport! LIFE
@@PatronSaintKolbe93 Nor do I play church!!!! LIFE
@@debraannmartinez7157 If you don’t play church, then go to Jesus’ true church. Even the reformers church are by man, and NOT by Jesus.
I suggest to use all of the passage as logic AND emotion; and not emotion ALONE.
“His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who IS TO RULE all the nations with a rod of iron. But her child was snatched away and taken to God and to his throne”
“and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, so that there she can be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days.”
The days of 1,260 days is 3.452 years. So what happens? The last recording of Mary was at the wedding at Cana when the wine was out, she said to the servant, “Do whatever he tells you” after Jesus said “Woman (In her natural state) what does this have to do with me? My hour has not come.” Explaining the first miracle. You don’t hear another word from Mary again because now, it’s Jesus Christ to preform His work on earth.
Now, let’s go back to the Old Testament. 1 Kings 2:19-20: “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right. 20 Then she said, “I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you.”
Oh, BTW; saying Life at the end of a statement, doesn’t matter.
There is a reason why THE Catholic Church gave the world, THE Bible. Not the other way around.
Think about it.
You Catholics see a figure of Mary in all godly women in the bible... Even if everything else does not fit...
@@ourendtimewalk so what is your explanation, oh great and knowledgeable one.
It's not biblical... it's philosophical... you only brought an attempt at explanation, without any verses to support your logic... If the woman is Mary, explain then why she's still alive during the tribulations, in verse 13. We know this is future from now, because as of NOW, Satan is not cast down to earth yet, as we know this happens after seal #1. So, if the woman is Mary, it means she's about 2000 years old by now. Also, if the woman is Mary, then verse 18 says the dragon goes to make war with the rest of her seed, or posterity, or children... But... you Catholics say Mary is a perpetual virgin... So... She didn't die as a virgin or not? And also, explain she's clothed with what in verse 1. What's the sun? Mary clothed with the sun? Explain biblically, if it is so biblical.
It's very biblical. Just that you don't read your Bible properly. And also Jesus who appeared to mystic Maria Valtorta says in her book The poem of Man-God.... Jesus says:
« Today write only this. Purity has such a value, that the womb of a creature can
contain the Uncontainable One, because She possessed the greatest purity that a
creature of God could have.
The Most Holy Trinity descended with Its perfections, inhabited with Its Three
Persons, enclosed Its infinity in a small space. But It did not debase Itself by
doing so, because the love of the Virgin and the will of God widened this space
until they rendered it a Heaven. And the Most Holy Trinity made Itself known
by Its characteristics:
The Father, being once again the Creator of the creature, as on the sixth day of
Creation, had a real, worthy daughter fashioned to His perfect image. The mark
of God was impressed so completely and exactly on Mary, that only in the First-
born was it greater. Mary can be called the Second-born of the Father because,
owing to the perfection granted to Her and preserved by Her, and to Her dignity
of Spouse and Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, She comes second after the
Son of the Father and second in His eternal thought, which ab aeterno took
delight in Her.
The Son, being also “Her Son”, did teach Her, by the mystery of Grace, His
truth and wisdom, when He was but an Embryo, growing in Her womb.
The Holy Spirit appeared amongst men, for an anticipated prolonged Pentecost: Love for “Her Whom He loved”, Consolation to men because of the Fruit of Her
Womb, Sanctification on account of the Maternity of the Holy One.
God, to reveal Himself to men in the new and complete form, which starts the
Redemption era, did not select for His throne a star in the sky, nor the palace of
a powerful man. Neither did He want the wings of angels as the base of His feet.
He wanted a spotless womb.
Also Eve had been created spotless. But she wanted to become corrupt of her
own free will. Mary, Who lived in a corrupt world - Eve was in a pure world -
did not wish to violate Her purity, not even with one thought remotely
connected with sin. She knew that sin exists. She saw its various and horrible
forms and implications. She saw them all, including the most hideous one:
deicide. But She knew them solely to expiate them and to be, forever, the
Woman who has mercy on sinners and prays for their redemption."
@@DrSharuMaria , swiping the whole thing with the overused "you don't read your bible properly" and then not answering my points using scriptures and then resorting to what a mystic says, in a so-called revelation... your reply has no authority...
@@ourendtimewalk scripture clearly shows that She is Mary, Mother of Christ. Just that your pride doesn't allow you to see properly. You people say it's Israel, it's the Church but you can clearly see that John states that she give birth to a Male child which is to rule the nation's with an iron rode. This is stated in the old testament and is about the virgin birth of Christ. If Christ is King of Kings, His Mother is surely the Queen.
@@DrSharuMaria my pride? Who's insulting who?
@@ourendtimewalk Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He is the Eternal conqueror, Lord of Peace. If Jesus is King, His Mother Mary is queen there is no doubt in that. In the old testament book of 1 Kings, Solomon is the King and He makes Bathsheba his queen Mother and makes her sit at his right hand. This was the tradition in Israel. Jesus is Everlasting King from the line of David. John in the book of Revelation sees a vision, he sees the heavens open and heavenly Jerusalem appear in Her glory. And immediately he says I see a woman clothed in Sun , 12 stars as Her crown, moon was at her feet. She was pregnant. She bore a Male child who is to rule Israel with an Iron rode which symbolises The Messiah from the old testament. You protestants say that lady is The church....The Church didn't give birth to Jesus, Church is the mystical body of Christ. It's clearly stating Mary, Mother of Son of God. She is the queen of heaven because Christ is the King. Anyone who is true believer of God can see this in John's vision. Satan vaged war against the woman because she is the One giving birth to Jesus who will conquer Satan and death. Since she was given wings to escape from him, he waged war against the people of earth, who keeps the word of God , who are her children as Christ has made Her Mother of all Christians wen He gave Her to John as a mother. I said you have pride because u refuse to acknowledge the facts and misinterpret the Bible according to your own way.
If Karlo from Catholic answers treats Fiducia Supplicans as a teaching subject to personal interpretation, then would it not make sense the teaching about Mary is equally subjective?
That would not apply here because Mary Queen of Heaven is dogmatically defined as true. Fiducia Supplicans is an instruction up to the discretion of the bishops, Jesus as King and Mary as Queen are infallibly defined.
@@JacksonC-8000 So then the entire teachings of the Catholic Church is subjective, unless dogmatically defined. Even many teachings of Mary are not part of what is dogmatically defined. Are the German Bishops free to ignore FS as both the Dicastery and the Pope do not actually matter as a teaching authority, given bishop's discretion is superior to the seat of Peter?
@@dan_m7774 This is comparing apples with oranges. An instruction is a matter of practice. It is one of those traditions with a small "t" in how we carry out the faith that is different from truth in faith and morals with a large "T". The concept of dogma has two elements: 1) the public revelation of God, which is divine revelation as contained in sacred Scripture (the written word) and sacred Tradition, and 2) a proposition of the Catholic Church, which not only announces the dogma but also declares it binding for the faith.
Dogmas are classified:
a) According to their content as: General Dogmas (dogmata generalia) and Special Dogmas (dogmata specialia). To the former belong the fundamental truths of Christianity, to the latter the individual truths contained therein.
b) According to their relation with Reason as: Pure Dogmas (dogmata pura) and Mixed Dogmas (dogmata mixta). The former we know solely through Divine Revelation, e.g., The Trinity (mysteries), the latter by Natural Reason also, e.g., The Existence of God.
c) According to the mode by which the Church proposes them, as: Formal Dogmas (dogmata formalia) and Material Dogmas (dogmata materialia). The former are proposed for belief by the Teaching Authority of the Church as truths of Revelation; the latter are not so proposed, for which reason they are not Dogmas in the strict sense.
d) According to their relation with salvation as: Necessary Dogmas (dogmata necessaria) and Non-necessary Dogmas (dogmata non-necessaria). The former must be explicitly believed by all in order to achieve eternal salvation; for the latter implicit faith (fides implicita) suffices (cf. Hebr. II, 6).
@@dan_m7774 No. The Church defines that which is absolutely true and that which is open to personal opinion within certain parameters. For an example, the Church says Christ is God. You cannot disagree with this fact and be in Communion with God's church. When you say subjective it implies the teaching is meaningless which it is not. For an example, you can hold the belief that God created the world in literally seven days or you can hold the belief that this is a metaphorical device for showing stages in creation but you CANNOT say that the universe always existed and didn't need God to create it. The Church gives barriers and pathways to what is true so that the faithful won't stumble into heresy in seeking truth and the application of truth. Fiducia Supplicans is a document on pastoral instruction. This comes from the seat of Peter. A Bishop accepts the substance of the document but must determine if the instruction in practice (not theory) will work in a universal Catholic church. In America this can work great, in Africa it almost certainly would cause more trouble in practice than it would help. Most dogmas on Mary you're probably thinking about have been infallibly defined.
@@dan_m7774 no, you are jumping from a very narrow conflict to putting in doubt all the teaching authority of the Chuch. First, the teaching authority has different levels of infallability, and we as Catholics always have to be receptive with submission of mind to listen to the different authorities in the church. However, the personal opinions of a particular priest, as long as they don't contradict stablished doctrine, can be treated, for example, as not completely infallible. But for another example if a certain doctrine has been declared in an ecumenical council, that doctrine has a more robust and un-negotiable status. In the case of fiduccia Suplicants, the document itself leaves open the possibility for the local priests and Bishops to reject the use of this types of blessings if they see it would cause some type of harm or confusion in the community. It is for this reason that we saw that all of the cardinals and Bishops in Africa send a letter to Pope Francis and Cardinal Fernandez saying they would not apply this types of blessings in their dioceses and the Pope responded saying: "Ok, no problem". Because the document itself allows them to decide on such matters
Catholics do not read the old testament
This is why i don’t think it’s Mary. I feel The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc. It’s also helpful to remember the exegetical placement of John’s intention with revelation. John is an exiled apostle on a guarded island whose outgoing letters are censored. To read Revelation extremely literally, or plainly would be a mistake.
Please Keep that in mind here.
First, let me poke the biggest hole using catholic theology in context. Catholic theology says that Marry gave birth painlessly to Jesus and that she remains a virgin afterwards. How could that be possible in light of Revelation 12:2?
“She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.”
in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.”
the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10).
the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.”
the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27).
Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7).
Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church.
So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This allowed the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome thus cutting off the Jews by means of their destruction.
This is a loving criticism, not a damning anger lashing outburst. Revelation within itself shows you history fulfilled, and how the church continued after Jerusalem fell but you can’t know that unless you read the entire Tanakh.
Revelation was a vision presented to John in “signs,” meaning symbolic language was used. (Revelation 1:1) This vision about a “woman” in Revelation chapter 12 was given to the apostle John LONG AFTER Jesus’ human birth and after his anointing as God’s Messiah. This is obviously in reference to, not Jesus’ human birth, but to his being installed in Kingdom power. So the birth of God’s Messianic Kingdom was being pictured here.
The apostle Paul also add the final piece of information when he says at Galatians 4:26: “The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.” The “woman” seen by John is “the Jerusalem above.” Jerusalem above is the Almighty’s universal organization of spirit creatures that act as his wife.
The woman in Revelation 12 is the true Israel of God. She comprises the seed of Abraham (Jews who are in Christ) and the truly saved Gentiles. Both have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb (Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world) and sealed with the Holy Spirit. The sun is a symbol of God Almighty, the moon symbolizes the true church (reflecting the glory of God), and the twelve stars are the twelve angels whom have been ordained over the twelve tribes of Israel (stars are always symbolic of angels).
Although there are certain verses in this chapter that seem to suggest Mary as the woman, it is an alluding more to typology at best.
We know for certain that the woman could not be one entity (Mary), since Rev.12: 15-17 speaks of the flood (the great flood) that the devil wanted to use against the woman (Noah and his family at the time) for her to be swept away with. In verse 17, we see that if the woman is Mary, then one would have to say that all those who are truly in Christ are Mary's children.This idea is not what God's word teaches.
Yes this is a good typology for Eve also. However, we know the second trumpet is a burning mountain thrown in to the sea, AND although the flood in 12:15-17 is spewed from the mouth of the Dragon (v. 15) and not from God himself necessarily. However, it is the earth that swallows up the flood to help the woman that Satan is going after. Unlike the flood of Noah where water came forth additionally from the earth as well. So the flood is not overtaking the entire earth as it goes after the Woman. Then the DRagon becomes angry with the Woman and wages war against her offspring "those who keep God's word (commandment) and bear witness (Gk. "martyria" or martyr) to Jesus". So what you say is a typology and pattern of the beginning but it is fulfilled in the end with the body of Christ, the Church (Eph. 1:22b-23a), of whom Jesus only receives flesh from Mary, who was handed over to the beloved disciple as his Mother, for she gave her humble will so that thy will (the Lord's will) be done, as the first Virgin and Christian born to bear forth his Image in us and one another (1 John 1:3 "we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ). Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
Catholics do not seem to read the old testament. The answers are in Daniel, Genesis, Isaiah, and Ezekiel etc.
in the OT, the imagery of the sun, moon, and stars refers to the nation of Israel. Joseph said, “I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me” (Gen. 37:9). Osborne writes, “In Jewish literature ‘twelve stars’ often refers to the twelve patriarchs or the twelve tribes.”
the Bible frequently uses the imagery of a woman to refer to Israel, Zion, or Jerusalem. Paul writes, “The Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother” (Gal. 4:26). Jeremiah writes, “Surely, as a woman treacherously departs from her lover, so you have dealt treacherously with Me, O house of Israel” (Jer. 3:20; c.f. Isa. 54:1-6; Ezek. 16:8-14; Hos. 2:19-20; Micah 4:9-10).
the image of being protected by eagle’s wings refers to Israel. In Exodus 19:4, we read, “You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” This seems to fit with the language in Revelation 12:14, where we read, “The two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished.”
the Woman is protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. This fits with the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27, which is directed to Israel (“your people and your holy city”). This iteration of 3.5 years is mentioned five times through this section of Revelation (Rev. 11:2; 11:3; 12:6; 12:14; 13:5). Clearly, this time span of three and a half years must be important to the author. This seems to fit with Neros persecution, where the beast is in power (Dan. 9:26-27).
Daniel 12 predicted that Michael would rise up at this time to protect Israel-not the Church (Dan. 12:1). Daniel writes, “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued” (Daniel 12:1). We see a fulfillment of this, when John writes, “There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war” (Rev. 12:7).
Jesus is said to rule the nations with a rod of iron. In Revelation 19:15, we read, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.” Thus the man-child of verse 5 must be Jesus-not the Church.
So, good news here. This is already happened. This was the conflict where Rome destroyed Jerusalem. This is a good thing. This all out the church to fully exist with the gentiles within the seven churches of revelation and Rome.
@@HillbillyBlack I like your analysis here. Let me just say that what you say about Catholics depends on who you are examining as a Catholic. All religious sisters and brothers, as well as priests, attend or celebrate Holy Mass daily. Every Catholic Church has Mass celebrated in it daily, and has been celebrated from of old just as in Acts 2:42, 46 ("They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers . . . EVERY DAY they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes"). Anyone can stop in and worship. At every Mass there is a reading from the Old Testament and a Gospel reading, with an extra reading from one of the new testament the letters on Sunday worship. So depending on whether you go to worship service every day, once a week, or only on Easter / Christmas, or not at all, will depend on your level of hearing the sacred Scriptures as a Catholic. Of course, we encourage everyone to read scripture daily and probably could encourage that more, but we do. I wish there was more adult education offered, but at some point we each are responsible for our own formation there also.
@@HillbillyBlack Regarding your analysis, let me just add that Mary calls herself Israel and also gives birth to the Church through her Son. She is the line of David (Micah 5:2-3 (1-2)) as is Joseph.
o “My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48 For He has regarded the lowly state of *His maidservant* ;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name . . . 54 He has helped *His servant (singular) Israel* ,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55 As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.” - Luke 1:46b-49, 54-55
Micah 5:2(3) Therefore the Lord will give them up, *until the time when she who is to give birth has borne Then THE REST OF HIS KINDRED shall return to the children of Israel* .
Isaiah 66:7 7 Before she is in labor,
she gives birth;
Before her pangs come upon her,
she delivers a male child.
Isaiah 66:8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or who ever saw the like? Can a land be brought forth in one day, or a nation be born in a single moment? Yet Zion was scarcely in labor when she bore her children.
Heb. 9:11 “But when Christ came as High priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation”
2 Corinthians 5:17-21: 17 So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.
Luke 1:27-35 27 He came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to perform the custom of the law in regard to him, 28 he took him into his arms and blessed God, saying:
29 “Now, Master, you may let your servant go
in peace, according to your word,
30 for my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you prepared in sight of all the peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
AND GLORY FOR YOUR PEOPLE ISRAEL.”
33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; 34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for THE FALL AND RISE OF MANY IN ISRAEL
So the BODY OF CHRIST, the CHURCH is Israel, is the nation brought forth. We read in the Old Testament that Israel was now among the Gentiles, and Paul says there is no Jew or Greek only one body in Christ (“For IN ONE SPIRIT WE WERE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, WHETHER JEWS OR GREEKS, SLAVES OR FREE PERSONS, AND WE WERE ALL GIVEN TO DRINK OF ONE SPIRIT.” - 1 Cor. 12:13).
Israel the nation became the Gentiles, mixed among them.
Hosea 7:8; 8:8.
8 EPHRAIM IS MIXED WITH THE NATIONS,
EPHRAIM IS AN UNTURNED CAKE.
9 Strangers have consumed his strength,
but he does not know it;
Gray hairs are strewn on his head,
but he takes no notice of it.
10 THE ARROGANCE OF ISRAEL BEARS WITNESS AGAINST HIM;
YET THEY DO NOT RETURN TO THE LORD, THEIR GOD,
NOR SEEK HIM, DESPITE ALL THIS. - Hosea 7:8-10;
8 ISRAEL IS SWALLOWED UP;
NOW THEY ARE AMONG THE NATIONS,
like a useless vessel. - Hosea 8:8.
“24 He said in reply,” *I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel* .” - Matthew 15:24.
“4 *YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM CHRIST, YOU WHO ARE TRYING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW* YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.” - Galatians 5:4-5.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, A WILD OLIVE SHOOT, WERE GRAFTED IN THEIR PLACE AND HAVE COME TO SHARE IN THE RICH ROOT OF THE OLIVE TREE, 18 do not boast against the branches. If you do boast, consider that you do not support the root; the root supports you. . . . 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, [perhaps] he will not spare you either. - Romans 11:17-18, 21.
“my brothers, *YOU ALSO WERE PUT TO DEATH TO THE LAW THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST* , so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God.” - Romans 7:4.
“27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for *YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS* . 29 And *IF YOU BELONG TO CHRIST THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM’S DESCENDANT HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE* .” - Galatians 3:27-29.
“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.” - Romans 10:12.
Acts 2:39 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For THE PROMISE IS MADE TO YOU AND TO YOUR CHILDREN AND TO ALL THOSE FAR OFF, WHOMEVER THE LORD OUR GOD WILL CALL.
“but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” - 1 Cor. 1:24.
25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles COMES IN, 26 AND THUS ALL ISRAEL will be saved. - Romans 11:25-26.
“Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but *Christ is all and in all* .” - Gal. 3:11.
Romans 2:29 29 Rather, ONE IS A JEW INWARDLY, and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not the letter; his praise is not from human beings but from God.
Gal. 3:9, 28 9 Consequently, those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham who had faith . . . 28 THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, THERE IS NEITHER SLAVE NOR FREE PERSON, THERE IS NOT MALE AND FEMALE; FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS
Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 See, days are coming-oracle of the LORD-when I will make a new covenant with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors the day I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. They broke my covenant, though I was their master-oracle of the LORD. 33 But THIS IS THE COVENANT I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL
Galatians 3:29 AND IF YOU BELONG TO CHRIST, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM’S DESCENDANT [SEED], HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.
So we see Mary who gives birth to Jesus Christ at verse 5, but we also see b bthe Church at verse 17. "the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus."
For it is by Christ that we become one with him and we do the will of the father we testify to him giving birth through the Spirit to others in Christ."
We are told that in the end times "I know the slander of those who claim to be Jews and are not, but rather are members of the assembly of Satan." Rev 2:9b and " Behold, I will make those of the assembly of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying, behold I will make them come and fall prostrate at your feet, and they will realize that I love you." - Rev. 3:9...so who is it that says they are Jew or the people of God today, but are not of Christ body?
It might be those who call themselves Jew because as Paul says "18 Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19 So what am I saying? That meat sacrificed to idols is anything? Or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I mean that what they sacrifice, [they sacrifice] to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to become participants with demons." - 1 Cor 10:18-20, but this may be anyone whose Father is the Father of Lies, false prophets, deceivers, etc. ("as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur" Rev 21:8; or "15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit." - Rev. 22:15).
One thing we know for sure, is that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Do you believe this? and if you do then you have eternal life. Amen. Come Lord Jesus.
@@Jesus3ITrustinThee that’s very bad Catholic exegesis