Why Jack Robinson beat Leo Fioravanti in the 2023 JBay Paddle Battle - Paddling Technique Analysis

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  • Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
  • Jack Robinson miraculously won a paddle battle against Leo Fioravanti coming from behind at JBay.
    Was this a case of Technique, Fitness, or a combination of both?
    In this video I break down 4 main reasons why Jack Robinson came from behind and won this paddle battle against Leo Fioravanti at JBay.
    To learn more about paddling technique, visit www.surfingpaddling.com/
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Комментарии • 53

  • @MrJMHP
    @MrJMHP Год назад +13

    i improve a lot my paddle performance when i started to paddle short strokes and with my elbows higher above the water then before. I used to paddle with longer stokes and my elbows almost touching the water and i ended always tired in my surf sessions. To catch faster waves or step waves i shorter more the strokes and elbows higher for more paddle power... It was a gamer changer for me. More waves more fun!

    • @whoaitsjape
      @whoaitsjape Год назад +2

      Spot on, same exact thing for me. Big thanks to Rob Case for the epic videos and podcasts. My efficiency and wave count have improved dramatically. Whereas my shoulders used to fatigue after 1-hour, I'm going 2.5+ hours with no problems. Man I had such poor technique before lol.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +1

      Right on. Thanks for the feedback and great to hear.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +2

      Great comment and thanks for sharing. Just remember that having that higher elbow entry will increase energy use in the long run due to the higher stroke rate it ends up causing. A surfer will get much higher acceleration with that technique for their power strokes, but it's advised to use the efficiency gliding stroke when acceleration isn't really that important. Entry point should always stay the same though which is what you don't see a lot of (at the pro level and recreational level). Cheers!

  • @yasu4303
    @yasu4303 Год назад +1

    Epic moment, great analysis. Thanks a lot!

  • @jeremysudibyo2256
    @jeremysudibyo2256 Год назад +1

    Amazing breakdown, thanks for sharing!

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Stoked you enjoyed it and thanks for that kind feedback.

  • @pete3773
    @pete3773 Год назад +1

    Superb stuff. Many thanks.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Appreciate the feedback. Really kind of you.

  • @apolloxpony
    @apolloxpony Год назад +1

    amazing analysis, cheers Rob!

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Thank for the feedback. Really appreciate it.

  • @Charbarification
    @Charbarification Год назад +1

    Thanks for this Rob! 🤩

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Cheers Char! Looks like your paddling out there! Flying!

  • @BigZ_4i20
    @BigZ_4i20 Год назад +1

    Awesome content!!

  • @bangkobangko1391
    @bangkobangko1391 Год назад +1

    Awesome such an analysis

  • @uri.patish
    @uri.patish Год назад +3

    Hey Rob, interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. Nonetheless, I am missing some details such as the two surfers' weight to surfboard volume ratios, and maybe other surfboard characteristics such rocker profile, and construction materials. Would be interesting if you could factor these variables into future analyses.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +1

      Can't fill you in on the board volumes or lengths, but WSL lists Jack at 5'11", 178 lbs; Leo at 5'11", 176lbs. I'm assuming they are both on high performance shortboards. From a paddling point of view, you won't find major differences in performance from the board that will outweigh the technique used, even with different rocker profiles and construction materials. At least, nothing that has been scientifically proven yet. I've raise that question with the academics already - differences in rocker, materials, outline, concave. The one study that has been done thoroughly that comes to mind is one that CSUSM did for Firewire showing there was no significant difference in oxygen consumption when the volume was moved from the nose to the middle to the tail of the board. That study was pretty thorough so using that as a proxy, I'm doubtful that those other items would make a difference other than construction material (since buoyancy throughout might make a difference over the distance they paddled). Cheers on the comment and thought provoking question.

  • @maximiliancrunchyroll131
    @maximiliancrunchyroll131 Год назад +2

    This is awesome. Really helps understanding of what works with the contrast. Cheers Rob.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Right on. Glad you enjoyed it and made sense.

  • @simonbackwash
    @simonbackwash Год назад +1

    Pretty neat explanations mate 💯👍🙏👌

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +1

      Thanks for that, really kind. Stoked you liked it.

  • @dkilla01
    @dkilla01 Год назад +1

    Awesome break down brotha

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Thanks for the comment and feedback. Really appreciate that.

  • @obsidian66
    @obsidian66 Год назад +1

    Great breakdown

  • @cryptopizza8057
    @cryptopizza8057 Год назад +2

    Leo was not even trying, just saving energy for the heat

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Correct that Leo did give up on the paddle at a certain point. But based on his stroke rate that wasn't until there was about 16:07 left in the heat. Up until that point, Leo's stroke rate and body language all suggest he was putting forth a strong effort, and in the interview Leo conducted, admits that he did put in an effort for a bit when he thought he could win the battle. However, he then calculated he would need two more waves and needed to save energy. It appears that calculation took place around that point in the heat (16:07). I don't blame him for that. It's a smart move. And as I pointed out in my video (@3:33), Leo had taken two waves to Jack's one, and had been already paddling hard for 45 seconds before the battle even started. The other 3 reasons I pointed out still hold true, despite what Leo said - poor propulsion (for both his power and efficiency stroke), drafting, and stroke rate differences over the time period I measured (which is when Leo was actually trying to hold Jack off).

  • @nicoloiudica9593
    @nicoloiudica9593 Год назад +2

    In this interview: ruclips.net/video/2EMdgB9lLz4/видео.html, unfortunately only available in Italian, Leo says that he deliberately decided not to put his 100% into the paddle battle for tactical reasons.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      That's a good point, and I appreciate you sharing the link to the interview. He did decide at a certain point (he didn't say when) that he would relent to Jack because he calculated he needed two more waves and wanted to save energy. We don't know when he relented but you can see around the 16:07 mark his stroke rate finally slowed down. Up until then it appeared as though Leo was challenging Jack, and he even said in the interview that he did think he would fight Jack until he calculated he was expending too much energy. Based on Leo's body language, and paddling stroke rate, that point was around when there was 16:07 left in the heat. A pretty smart move I thought for sure.
      Also in the interview, Leo confirmed my 3rd reason why Jack won the paddle back out (@3:33 in my video) - he had taken two waves to Jack's one wave, and had already been paddling for 45 seconds before Jack kicked out next to Leo. Leo admits that he was already "cooked" from paddling hard on the inside, and paddling farther. It makes complete sense why Leo relented later.
      Lastly, Leo's paddling technique, even in his "efficiency" stroke after he slowed down and relented, is still over-reaching, causing increased stress on the rotator cuff, and pushing down in the first part of his stroke. His power stroke, when he was putting forth effort against Jack, was also less effective.
      All 4 reasons still hold true - stroke rate, effective propulsion, heart rate, and drafting - why Jack passed Leo over the time period measured since Leo didn't slow his stroke rate down until the 16:07 mark. Looking at what Leo does rather than what he says he did proves this.
      It didn't help that Leo tried as hard as he did over that minute Jack was next to him.

  • @MrMatiasRojas
    @MrMatiasRojas Год назад +2

    That's great! it would be interesting to know how surfers breathed, nasal breathing delays the onset of lactic acid fatigue, Robinson does a lot of breathing training, it would not be strange for Robinson to use only his nose to breathe at high intensities. regards

  • @justpaulo
    @justpaulo Год назад +1

    It may also be that Jack was using a thinner and/or more flexible wetsuit... or simply a more weared out wetsuit and therefore more flexible 🤷🏼‍♂
    My summer wetsuit for instance is the same as my winter one, but it's older and because it's weared out I paddle much faster and don't get tired so easily. However it no longer keeps me warm in the winter cold waters for the same reason...

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  11 месяцев назад

      Fun comment. The studies conducted on wetsuits and oxygen consumption from CSUSM have concluded that wetsuit thickness doesn’t play a role, until you get up to a certain thickness - and the results show that a wetsuit of a certain thickness helps with paddling. Once it gets too thick, it doesn’t, and if too thin it doesn’t. There’s a sweet spot. However, even they would admit the study needs a larger sample size.
      One study they conducted that was confidently claimed was that the warmer you are, the better you perform. Based on my conversations with them, warmth is pretty darn important.
      Interesting stuff.

  • @paultarbotton4051
    @paultarbotton4051 11 месяцев назад +1

    What about the board rocker and the foam litres in each board?

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  11 месяцев назад

      I don’t have insight into those aspects between the boards but given they are both on the CT, I strongly believe those differences would be negligible, especially when considering the CSUSM study on foam distribution concluded moving the volume around the board (tail, center, nose) had no impact on paddling efficiency.
      They did conduct a study showing volume did have an impact, but the volume changes were quite significant. In all likelihood I doubt Leo and Jack’s volumes are much different to a significant degree - they are both similar height and weight.

  • @hooverbaglegs
    @hooverbaglegs Год назад +1

    4.5 mph is ridiculous! Like your breakdown - but is Jack also lighter than Leo?

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +1

      Yeah, it is fast, and it's an estimate until I can get him hooked up to my machines for a proper analysis. 4.5mph would be on the upper end of the shortboard spectrum, especially over 60 seconds. WSL says Jack is 5'11" 178lbs, Leo is 5'11" 176lbs.

  • @adambamf9365
    @adambamf9365 Год назад +1

    jack also swims in the pool when hes home jacks almost horse styleing out of the water

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Swimming helps for sure, but there are subtle technique differences when a surfboard is under the body (biomechanics, force application, etc.). I believe Leo hits the pool also, though maybe just during his shoulder reconstruction.

  • @h4mst3rtube
    @h4mst3rtube Год назад +1

    Man! great analisys! but.... to me looks like Leo DECIDED to not push hard as Jack... and if you watch his comment about it... is confirmed. different Choices...

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад +1

      Maybe so, but during the paddle when Jack passed him, Leo's stroke rate increased insinuating that he was still trying to keep on Jack with a possible push. I think it really had more to do with Leo starting at such a higher heart rate (assumed) than Jack due to Leo paddling for 45 seconds and catching two waves immediately before the paddle battle began.

  • @jamesmarshallbishop9222
    @jamesmarshallbishop9222 11 месяцев назад +1

    This entire analysis ignores the most important factor which are Leo's injuries. When you consider these you can ignore all the other noise described in the video. Leo had a dislocated shoulder and broken back, both of which kept him out of the water for long periods of time and likely have lasting impacts. Being out of the water caused him to lose a ton of fitness. While you can gain a lot of fitness back initially pretty quickly, those increases in fitness get harder and harder as you get closer to the top. Jack not having been injured has been able to maintain elite level paddling fitness.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  11 месяцев назад

      Nice point. Fitness does play a role in paddling, but only after there is good movement. Leo’s movement is not correct - arm entry and entry point, from a paddling technique point of view. Technique supersedes fitness. Think of it this way - if you were the Incredible Hulk, but you were paddling with 50 parachutes behind you and you were pushing down most of the time, fitness doesn’t matter. The solution is to cut the parachutes and apply force in the correct direction to move you forward. THEN, when you add fitness on top of that, the movements are easier and even more effective. And the surfer can last longer.
      Leo was certainly fatigued from the 45 seconds of paddling he did before the paddle battle even started - which was pointed out in the video. And yes, fitness could have definitely played a role in Leo giving in. But the root cause was that all of his motions were less effective and less efficient, causing fatigue to come on faster.

  • @starcarbonracer
    @starcarbonracer Год назад +1

    Leos shoulder is pretty fked.

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Yeah, another factor not discussed much. Over-reaching isn't helping the shoulder perform any better (in fact it could be exacerbating the issue).

  • @kevingleed2928
    @kevingleed2928 Год назад +1

    He paddled faster it was the highlite of JBay

    • @RobCaseXSWIM
      @RobCaseXSWIM  Год назад

      Yes he did, and yes, it was one of the highlights for sure.

  • @markrichards4263
    @markrichards4263 Год назад +1

    How about #1 Jack has Brazilian wife .

  • @elliotalderson6052
    @elliotalderson6052 Год назад

    blablabla! resuming
    one is italian the ither ozzy! thats it