Fantastic video! I really enjoy your videos and learn a ton. And then see a video on knife making! As a man who earns a living from making knives this had me jacked! Fantastic explanation and even though my milling machine (and lathe) are fully manual, I want to learn the CAM theory regardless if I ever use it or not. I appreciate the work you put into these videos and you sharing your knowledge. Thank you!
This was awesome. I got into cad/cam (no mill/cnc yet) about a week ago. I'm a knife maker and jeweler, and I wanted to use cnc to assist in the knife roughing stages. I've been binge watching your videos for a few days now, and a knife blade was my first project I made in fusion, and I couldn't figure out how to get it to do exactly this. This answers a lot of my questions... so thank you. Love your channel, keep it up.
hey John I use 3d contour..weather I'm leaving cusps or milling smooth..and when selecting geometry I choose MODEL tab. I find it better for me to do it all in one operation. I was doing a adaptive to remove a bulk of the material. then a contour...but it's easier and faster to do it in one OP... unless of course your stock is very thick....I'm still a newbie. but this works for me..
The scallop tool path in my experience always does a spiral to the center of your boundary, I think the problem was that you were on a surface that had a single slope to it and was attempting to apply that spiral to that slope. One thing I would recommend trying is the avoid/touch option under the geometry tab as I've had a lot of luck using it to restrict the tool path to only the surfaces I want it to touch. I believe that the optimal tool path for this job would be the parallel strategy since you only have what I usually refer to as "organic" geometry in one direction.
Totally agree at the end about fusion being a great learning tool for a beginner cam machinist... to be able to tweak a toolpath and simulate it is powerful considering what had to be done a few decades ago to get a design to reality. great vid!
3d adaptive for initial clearing 1/4" EM then parallel with an 1/4 " ball mill. Can smooth the transition by adding tangential extentions and avoiding touch surfaces
There are a few things you can do to make this process faster, easier and better looking. First, rather than a ball mill, use a toroidial cutter if you can. They provide a much better surface finish and faster rate of material removal. The buttons on the cutter can be rotated as they wear which is a plus. A bull nose end mill with large corner radius can get a similar effect. You can get some effects with ball mills that you cannot with torroidals though. The biggest improvement in appearance of the blade will come from having the tool follow the path of the blade edge. Unless you are going to have a very small stepover or going to finish by hand, you'll have visible scallop marks on the blade with either a ball end mill or toroidal cutter. If you're going to have scallops you want those scallops to follow the geometry of the blade. I've just switched from RhinoCAM to Fusion 360 recently...let me see if I can get the tool to perform the strategy outlined above, in Fusion rather than RhinoCAM, and I'll share here. EDIT: In fusion 360 you can accomplish the above with a bull end nose cutter defined and using 3D coutour with a very small "Maximum Stepdown" (i.e. .004). Shane
Shane Harvey Assuming your strategy does produce a better finish and given today's technology (tolerances, cutter performance) do you think it would be possible to produce an off-the-vice, ready to use, sharp blade?
No, not really. You'd need to start with hardened steel which is not easy to machine as I understand it (I've not tried myself). Every sharpening process I've used or seen is done by hand though I'm sure there are industrial level sharpening techniques I'm not aware of. Having said that, you can produce a knife off the vice which is sharp enough to cut the hell out of yourself even before heat treating.
I was playing with my first knife project this morning. I had the best luck with Contour. It gave me a much cleaner path than parallel or ramp. Thanks for the video!
John. Been watching your videos since you were in New York City. Great channel mate! Now you have a 4th axis, you can use a face mill off tram to the cut to produce a concaved cut allong the length of the blade.You would have one side of the knife done in 2 roughing passes and 1 finninshing pass. Keep up the great work. Chich2 from Down Under.
Always great comment contribution to go along with these educational videos. I sometimes come back a couple of days later to see what ideas might have been missed.
3d contour is is the best ive found for knife bevel geometries because it follows the contour to give you smooth tool paths and will provide less tool pressure differences creating minute marks on your part like the parallel strategy would give you because the parallel will move in a straight line at the specified angle and stepover.
Can you configure the parallel to go parallel along the vertical axis instead of one of the horizontal axis like you did? I think it would produce nice cuts that follow the shape of the blade.
I use Gibbs cam and im always experimenting with new toolpath features. It's fun and i learn a tonne. Ive tried hsm express and i find all the menus and options handy but confusing due to all the navigation
Hmm wouldn't adaptive clearing be better? pretty sure John Grimsmo spoke about it. I'm currently learning it all too as I've just built a CNC mill for this exact reason. cheers nyatiblades.
You can change where the paralell pass begins by setting the pass angle to 180 from whatever it is. Example If you are entering from the top and your pass is set to 90 change it to -90 or 270 and it will enter from the bottom.
Did you set the upper boundary for work height, like you do when your peck drilling? Probably not the right term until i can find what i mean in one of your videos. Edit: nvm, you seem'ed to have annotated your solution in the video.
You could do a ruffing parallel cut in the Y axis with a endmill to ruff it out then clean up with a parallel cut in x. why not pick the faces of the blade not the edges. Having the faces selected the cutter stays on the face and that chamfer will of not been hit. 8 min 11 seconds look where the green line is it's under the chamfer
3D contour and I am using a 1/2" 1/8 rad bullnose endmill. One problem I am having at the moment is getting a fillet on an edge that I have done a sweep contour on, it just wont work, it will work on the edge before the sweep but not after. anyone have any tips on this?
I suppose if one coud tilt the blade in 4d5d the major slant could be milled flat. Then edge it and put a cosmetic curve where the flat part hist eh main body of the blade.
I've been thinking of another way to approach this. Rather than milling the blade in a horizontal edge position, try facing the edge up to the sky and tilted to the degree of the bevel and come in from the side with the cutter. This may be hard if you want a concave grind, but for a flat grind this might be the best way to get a good surface finish. It Also may require a special fixture, but If your using CNC to make knives then you are probably doing production runs and will need this anyway.
The easiest method would be utilizing soft jaws that will positvely lock it in. you could also use a fixture plate. personally I like soft jaws for this, much slower (well kind of) but better and easier to hold down
Occams Sawzall yeah. this happens on every model I try to work with since I noticed the issue because I thought it might be fixed with an update. happens every time though. other 3d methods are not affected
Scallop always produces a spiral pattern, either from outside in, or from inside out. I'll double check, but I believe you can do parallel to a guide curve. ** checked. Apparently you cannot..** Drop me the file? and I'll see what I can do with it. Edit*. Use 3D contour, do an order from bottom-up under passes. And select "both ways" for a direction Also under linking give it a start point at the blade tip. For machining boundary, use "silhouette" and select the blade edges. Deselect the flat portion Under Avoid/touch. Select all faces touching the blade you DO NOT want to cut, give it a clearance value of .0005" Should give you what you want. The Ramp tool path with also work if you give it angular limits from .1deg to 90deg
5:57 funny see john puzling around. when its easy shape. there 2 arc and 2 other arc that are mayby smaller. between them is curved surface. i can cut this on makro call. not need cam. its 2 arc that scale down with using arc. less than 20 machine lines LOOP LOOP LOOP
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Fantastic video! I really enjoy your videos and learn a ton. And then see a video on knife making! As a man who earns a living from making knives this had me jacked! Fantastic explanation and even though my milling machine (and lathe) are fully manual, I want to learn the CAM theory regardless if I ever use it or not. I appreciate the work you put into these videos and you sharing your knowledge. Thank you!
This was awesome. I got into cad/cam (no mill/cnc yet) about a week ago. I'm a knife maker and jeweler, and I wanted to use cnc to assist in the knife roughing stages. I've been binge watching your videos for a few days now, and a knife blade was my first project I made in fusion, and I couldn't figure out how to get it to do exactly this. This answers a lot of my questions... so thank you. Love your channel, keep it up.
Eagle Bird Creations Watch grimsmo knives too
hey John I use 3d contour..weather I'm leaving cusps or milling smooth..and when selecting geometry I choose MODEL tab. I find it better for me to do it all in one operation. I was doing a adaptive to remove a bulk of the material. then a contour...but it's easier and faster to do it in one OP... unless of course your stock is very thick....I'm still a newbie. but this works for me..
The scallop tool path in my experience always does a spiral to the center of your boundary, I think the problem was that you were on a surface that had a single slope to it and was attempting to apply that spiral to that slope. One thing I would recommend trying is the avoid/touch option under the geometry tab as I've had a lot of luck using it to restrict the tool path to only the surfaces I want it to touch. I believe that the optimal tool path for this job would be the parallel strategy since you only have what I usually refer to as "organic" geometry in one direction.
Totally agree at the end about fusion being a great learning tool for a beginner cam machinist... to be able to tweak a toolpath and simulate it is powerful considering what had to be done a few decades ago to get a design to reality. great vid!
3d adaptive for initial clearing 1/4" EM then parallel with an 1/4 " ball mill. Can smooth the transition by adding tangential extentions and avoiding touch surfaces
There are a few things you can do to make this process faster, easier and better looking. First, rather than a ball mill, use a toroidial cutter if you can. They provide a much better surface finish and faster rate of material removal. The buttons on the cutter can be rotated as they wear which is a plus. A bull nose end mill with large corner radius can get a similar effect. You can get some effects with ball mills that you cannot with torroidals though.
The biggest improvement in appearance of the blade will come from having the tool follow the path of the blade edge. Unless you are going to have a very small stepover or going to finish by hand, you'll have visible scallop marks on the blade with either a ball end mill or toroidal cutter. If you're going to have scallops you want those scallops to follow the geometry of the blade.
I've just switched from RhinoCAM to Fusion 360 recently...let me see if I can get the tool to perform the strategy outlined above, in Fusion rather than RhinoCAM, and I'll share here.
EDIT: In fusion 360 you can accomplish the above with a bull end nose cutter defined and using 3D coutour with a very small "Maximum Stepdown" (i.e. .004).
Shane
Shane Harvey Assuming your strategy does produce a better finish and given today's technology (tolerances, cutter performance) do you think it would be possible to produce an off-the-vice, ready to use, sharp blade?
No, not really. You'd need to start with hardened steel which is not easy to machine as I understand it (I've not tried myself). Every sharpening process I've used or seen is done by hand though I'm sure there are industrial level sharpening techniques I'm not aware of. Having said that, you can produce a knife off the vice which is sharp enough to cut the hell out of yourself even before heat treating.
I was playing with my first knife project this morning. I had the best luck with Contour. It gave me a much cleaner path than parallel or ramp. Thanks for the video!
John. Been watching your videos since you were in New York City. Great channel mate! Now you have a 4th axis, you can use a face mill off tram to the cut to produce a concaved cut allong the length of the blade.You would have one side of the knife done in 2 roughing passes and 1 finninshing pass. Keep up the great work. Chich2 from Down Under.
Always great comment contribution to go along with these educational videos. I sometimes come back a couple of days later to see what ideas might have been missed.
Thank you John for your time and videos! I love how the shop keeps growing too.
Scallop will always produce a spiral-like path for me. I use parallel for my blades as you did
So do CNC cut blades work out at the end?
Max Maker have you seen any Grimsmo knives?
Never.
Is it a Tool ware concern or a finish concern that leads you to avoid using the ball to cut (down milling instead of up milling)?
3d contour is is the best ive found for knife bevel geometries because it follows the contour to give you smooth tool paths and will provide less tool pressure differences creating minute marks on your part like the parallel strategy would give you because the parallel will move in a straight line at the specified angle and stepover.
Can you configure the parallel to go parallel along the vertical axis instead of one of the horizontal axis like you did? I think it would produce nice cuts that follow the shape of the blade.
I use Gibbs cam and im always experimenting with new toolpath features. It's fun and i learn a tonne. Ive tried hsm express and i find all the menus and options handy but confusing due to all the navigation
Hmm wouldn't adaptive clearing be better? pretty sure John Grimsmo spoke about it. I'm currently learning it all too as I've just built a CNC mill for this exact reason. cheers nyatiblades.
You can change where the paralell pass begins by setting the pass angle to 180 from whatever it is.
Example If you are entering from the top and your pass is set to 90 change it to -90 or 270 and it will enter from the bottom.
Did you set the upper boundary for work height, like you do when your peck drilling? Probably not the right term until i can find what i mean in one of your videos. Edit: nvm, you seem'ed to have annotated your solution in the video.
You could do a ruffing parallel cut in the Y axis with a endmill to ruff it out then clean up with a parallel cut in x.
why not pick the faces of the blade not the edges. Having the faces selected the cutter stays on the face and that chamfer will of not been hit.
8 min 11 seconds look where the green line is it's under the chamfer
How do you use a vertical ball end mill for an operation best suitable for horizontal milling... you do horizontal milling.
3D contour and I am using a 1/2" 1/8 rad bullnose endmill. One problem I am having at the moment is getting a fillet on an edge that I have done a sweep contour on, it just wont work, it will work on the edge before the sweep but not after. anyone have any tips on this?
I hit pause to yell "use touch surfaces!" at you in the comments here. Nice save. :)
Avoid touch surfaces? Will keep the toolpath from going on top
I'm always interested in knife related material. Thanks.
Seems like if you turn the stock 90 degrees around the X-axis you have better access with the ball end mill. - Less rubbing with the center.
8:02min You have to set a limit to your milling height.
I suppose if one coud tilt the blade in 4d5d the major slant could be milled flat. Then edge it and put a cosmetic curve where the flat part hist eh main body of the blade.
I've been thinking of another way to approach this. Rather than milling the blade in a horizontal edge position, try facing the edge up to the sky and tilted to the degree of the bevel and come in from the side with the cutter. This may be hard if you want a concave grind, but for a flat grind this might be the best way to get a good surface finish. It Also may require a special fixture, but If your using CNC to make knives then you are probably doing production runs and will need this anyway.
awsome always learning
Can you make it that the mill stays in constant Z for each step? Maybe that would work better, it should follow the contour more.
How would you locate it once you flipped it ?
The easiest method would be utilizing soft jaws that will positvely lock it in. you could also use a fixture plate. personally I like soft jaws for this, much slower (well kind of) but better and easier to hold down
Pantamorph Technologies could use pins through the holes in the handle, still you need to flip the location in the program.
Then would you just use a corner of the jaws for x,y 0?
Did you consider an unconventional approach by holding the workpiece vertically?
You'd have to be careful with DOC near the tip.
speaking of 3D cam in 360 though, I am unable to make a Spiral or Radial 3d path with a diameter larger than about 2.5 inches. And idea why that is?
Geof Dumas have you made sure your heights go far enough down?
I assume it's a dome like surface you're trying to cut?
Occams Sawzall yeah. this happens on every model I try to work with since I noticed the issue because I thought it might be fixed with an update. happens every time though. other 3d methods are not affected
Geof Dumas
I'll check it out tonight when I get home. A rarely if ever use radial or spiral.
go on get yourself some O1 and make yourself a shop knife. great video as usual ; -)
شرح رائع واصل ابداعك
صديق من جزائر
take it to John G!!!
Scallop always produces a spiral pattern, either from outside in, or from inside out.
I'll double check, but I believe you can do parallel to a guide curve. ** checked. Apparently you cannot..**
Drop me the file? and I'll see what I can do with it.
Edit*. Use 3D contour, do an order from bottom-up under passes. And select "both ways" for a direction
Also under linking give it a start point at the blade tip.
For machining boundary, use "silhouette" and select the blade edges. Deselect the flat portion
Under Avoid/touch. Select all faces touching the blade you DO NOT want to cut, give it a clearance value of .0005"
Should give you what you want.
The Ramp tool path with also work if you give it angular limits from .1deg to 90deg
Try climb mill only.
Grimsmo Knives had better watch out, I think they've got some competition...
Bored now, time to see if I can program it in Camworks.
5:57 funny see john puzling around. when its easy shape. there 2 arc and 2 other arc that are mayby smaller. between them is curved surface. i can cut this on makro call. not need cam. its 2 arc that scale down with using arc. less than 20 machine lines LOOP LOOP LOOP
looks like a grimsmo knife.
9:47 its cam. this is shape this tool. cut it. RED RED RED. its not an smart.hand write code you not cut more than you write
Wait here is something wrong.
Oh it's wrong John with a knife. XD
it would be much easier and faster with a 5 axis. just sayin
ses plate