The Most Important Part of Allan Holdsworth's Tone [it's all about the DELAY]
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Allan Holdsworth was a genius. Obviously. I always thought that the Drive/Amp were the important part of his tone, and have bought the J Rockett Holdsworth drive a number of times to see if I was missing something. After playing with both the Yamaha MagicStomp and the Yamaha UD Stomp - which Allan used for a huge part of his career, I've found what I think is the MOST important part of his lead tone.
Please leave a comment if you find this type of preset build useful, so that I know to keep making them!
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/ johnnathancordy get my backing tracks here
www.buymeacoff... - if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!
Great playing! The greatest aspect of the UD Stomp is the 8 delays at one time in either series or parallel. That is the secret to his swells. You can also create his chorus sound. I was the Product Manager at Yamaha that assisted in the creation of the DG, AG and UD Stomps. I knew Holdsworth and was always amazed by him. If you can find an old DG1000 rack preamp... BUY IT... and use the UD with that. The DG1000 was the best of all the amp models created before Line 6 was born. The chip set in those is superior to most. Allan originally used those with a tube power amp and cabinets, but then we created the DG series amps and he used two in store with 1x12 extension cabinets. Over time he used other products because of money paid from endorsements but his used the Yamaha stuff a lot in the studio. I remember before that (as you pointed out) Allan had 8 delays in his rack and pitch shifters. Long before Shimmer he was creating ambience using pitch shift in 5ths and 4ths in addition to his other delays. And yes... we had Allan program the first 30 presets, and I brought in various others as well as myself to program more. But those presets of his are golden! Keep up the great playing.
Gary. Great comment and history. You were there when it was all happening. So cool. I have the UD, DG-80, DG-Stomp, and a few MagicStomps and, as I like to joke, I still can’t play like him! Lol
But if you don’t mind, I’m jumping in here cuz I’m wondering if you might either point me to a resource, or have any experience yourself as I’ve not been able to find anything using the usual search channels. I turned on my UD-Stomp for the first time in years and it makes a loud digital noise, a kind of digital machine gun sound for lack of a better description. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
If you buy a used UD Stomp, is there a way to do a factory reset on it so you can get all of those Holdsworth patches back to the original presets?
@@VegasCyclingFreak yes. You can reinitialize to get the factory settings
Yep - another device that can get the ambient pad swells is the Lexicon Vortex, I created a patch I called "The Alien Murk" that basically is that AH pad swell sound (I even uploaded it to the Vortex patch database that Andy Butler was running). But yeah, a pedal format 8-delay box is a dream and I never actually found one and it was out of production by the time I could afford one. The only one I found used locally was beaten to heck. I still hope to find a clean one for this purpose.
yet Allan was using H&K Switchblades, Allan was using 4 Stomps on a table next to him, would hit them with his fist
Hey sir! @8:00 If you turn the master time to 100ms then the delay percentages will be equal to ms. So with a 100ms master delay, a 32% tap time will = 32ms, and so on. It might be more accurate for setting up the spatial relationships of short delay times. Also, try choosing prime numbers. Then all the taps will be mathamatically decorrelated. It will give more of a randomized (space) sound as opposed to pssibly having some kind of fast rhythmic effect.
Cheers!
@bunnyadrian, very helpful thanks. You say above using "prime" numbers, where?, for the percentages?, thx...
Holdsworth was one of the few actual genius in this instrument
I'd say his genius transcended his instrument. He was just a genius of music in general. Profoundly brilliant composer as well.
Finally someone did a video on this that actually covers it right! This was also a bit of a trick in my mind to make really thin strings sound fatter - with his setup, running 8s super close to the fretboard gives you a pretty shite tone but you can compensate with stacked delays and compression to a point where it starts to sound amazing. It's something that hasn't really been explored too much since, because super light strings also make all those horrible chord stretches possible and generally open up the technical ceiling of the instrument to a new level. Allan was basically playing a different instrument considering how much changes when you set up like that.
Check out the Rick Beato vid on YT about string gauge, you will be surprised!!
What has light strings to do with making it easier to play stretched chords? Does those magically makes the frets being closer together?
I have guitars with light and heavy gauge strings, and believe me, it won’t make any difference regarding to grab those streched chords.
The main reason for Allan using light gauge strings was that they make legato playing more comfortable and the way you can give them a certain vibrato. Especialy on (streched) chords you still can give these a nice vibrato with just your fingers.
ruclips.net/video/wGXj_NQONYM/видео.html
And Allan used to get that from those OLD ADA Rack mounted in the early 80's. he was the 1st guy I knew of who was running all those RACK effects. Takes a GENIUS like JOHN CORDY to deduce the Genius Alien we knew as A. Holdsworth, MR. IN THE MYSTERY!!! Great JOB JOHN!!!!
That opening tune was brilliant, by the way. Really captured some of Allan's magic, I think. Well done!
that intro was a wow......................what a break...........................serious touch.
i was wondering if it was an actual Holdsworth track haha
Nice one. As a Magic Stomp owner, I can't believe how rich and detailed the AH presets are. The lead delays create this beautiful mist that follows the lines but doesn't seem to get in the way, the chorus is the richest and most 3D chorus I've ever heard, and the swell setting is astounding. It's basically a rackmount processor in a pedal footprint, some of the other presets are utterly insane, owners will know what I mean. They really do need to re-release it with a modern interface, it would be a smash hit.
It's lovely being able to play melodies on guitar with the same kind of tonal quality and purity as a classical instrument. Ultimately that's what Allan was trying to do and should probably be remembered as one of his greatest contributions
Actually he was more influenced by jazz and the saxophone playing of John Coltrane To be specific
@@joanstone6740 I'd agree that melodically he was most influenced by coltrane. But in terms of tone he sought to get the smoothest sounds he could, to mimic a string section with his chords, or a pure-sounding woodwind like an oboe with his lead playing. He comes close to a soprano sax sound sometimes actually, like on The Un-Merry-Go-Round
Now this is right up my alley. Love the stereo separation and hugeness of the tone. Playing is quite elegant and flowing as well. Very nice touch!
Its legato.
Thanks to this video, I made a Kemper patch with a REALLY close approximation of Allan’s lead tone. I’ll share it on the Rig Exchange as “Holdsworth Stereo Lead 03”
Signal chain:
Guitar - > Noise Gate -> Compressor -> Studio EQ -> Mesa Boogie Dual Rec Revision B using Orange Channel and his exact settings -> Celestine V30 2x12 Open Back Cab -> Studio EQ -> Quad Delay
-> Stereo Delay -> Natural Room Reverb
Interesting. I like the tones you got. It would be cool if Line 6 Helix would add their UD Stomp and other similar products to their line of Legacy Effects included in future Firmware Updates to Units like the HX stomp. Might use a lot of DSP. 🤷
Absolutely, I'm with you on this one ! :) and I never though about the dsp, it might be an issue indeed :(
Yes Allan’s lead gain tone (eventually) came from a DG1000 Yamaha preamp. Then that same amp model was put in the Magic Stomp, “LongSusLead” preset. I am trying to capture it with Tonex, but you need a reamp / Tonex Capture Box. I was able to find a Magic Stomp Tonex model on ToneNet, and it gets close to the this preset on the Magic Stomp, from hearing side by side, but I would say maybe only 85-90%… That DG / Magic Stomp lead sound is dark, kind of notched filter sounding, and not too much gain, and the trebles are nice and warm and round, not biting harsh (this is shave and haircut Allan talked about). If you have Tonex you can get this lead gain tone onto it, offloading it from the MS, and then the Lead UD Stomp you can get here from the HX Stomp, it’s not quite the same as the UD / MS Stomp… The remaining thing is the AH Chorus 1 and 2 from the MS, that is the AH Clean sound he plays so much of, that is his clean chords sound. Thing is it’s not chorus, it’s these UD Stomp 8 delays, but the HX Stomp does not have 8 delays, i think max is 6….
Nothing beats Allan's tone with the Mesa Boogies and 6 discrete digital delays. NOTHING!
Incredible warm and sweet tone. I love Allan's tone.
Line 6 is close ish, but no cigar. The ud is a much warmer tone and deeper, if you can find one or seek one out that works ,snap it up their owners aren't selling them any time soon as there just isn't anything else out there that does the same
"Drop Dead Legs" outro solo. 100% A.H. influence.
Fascinating stuff, John. This is the first time I have seen a UD Stomp. Who knew that farting around in the dark could be so much fun. Allan's music was unrivalled.
I'd love to see a video on your process for producing the background tracks!
Holdsworth’s the GOAT. I’ve a pair of MagicStomps tricked out with UD presets, but always wished I’d purchased one of the last UD units for exploring as you have here. Curious how close the MS really matches the UD.
Holdsworth was probably the most prominent user of the A/DA STD-1 Stereo Tapped Delay. This was a rack unit, based on the legendary Panasonic/Matsushita MN3011 analog delay chip. The 3011 had 3328 stages, where most analog delay pedals would use an MN3005 or 3205, each of those having 4096 stages (the more stages, the more delay time possible). But more importantly, it had "taps" after 396, 662, 1194, 1726, 2790, and 3328 stages, to provide 6 simultaneous delay times. Just as important, none of these are mathematically related to each other, so they wouldn't sound "box-ey". Each tap could be assigned to left or right outputs, providing a huge stereo spread for chorus and flanging effects, and short delays. Of course, with only 3328 stages, the possibilities for multiple staggered short delays were limited. So the Yamaha UD-Stomp essentially does several things. 1) It moves the unit from the rack to a floor unit one can work with one's foot, including presets (which the STD-1 couldn't do), and 2) It tacks on longer digital delays, over and above the assignable short delays, for a more spacious tone, without requiring two different effects units.
On my seemingly endless stack of projects to finish is a reduced version of the STD-1, with a 3011 chip. But now you've put a bug in my ear to add a PT2399 delay chip to each of the two outputs, in order to spread things out even more.
I have the A/DA STD-1 and going to the send/return of my amp. Does it need 2 amps to work better?
@@VDthrash First off, you lucky S.O.B.!! 🙂 I suppose the need for 2 amps would depend on what you consider to be :"better". Certainly, it will sound more spacious in a true stereo arrangement. Rotary speaker emulator pedals sound pretty okay in mono but become HUGE in stereo, so I have little doubt that the STD-1 would sound more impressive in a 2-amp arrangement. But I also acknowledge that's bulky and expensive.
A simple mixer, taking a feed from the A and B outputs - even a basic passive one - would allow you to send a mono signal to the STD-1, and provide a mono signal back to the return jack, but with *both* STD-1 outputs combined. If that mixer allowed for mix or adjustment of L & R levels, that could be a step up from a basic mono signal. Bear in mind that while the unit allows for assigning the taps to L or R outputs, it does not allow for adjustment of their respective levels, should you wish to blend them or provide a more complex mono signal. A simple 2-in-1-out mixer would let you do that.
@@markhammer643 First off, thanks for the fast reply, because there is so little info for this on the net.
Ok, that's a good thing to sound nice with 1 amp.
My setup does have a line mixer like you suggested!
mesa boogie > tc parametric > gate/expander > a/da std-1 > out A / out B to line mixer's independent channels and then back to mesa boogie's return.
So i only need to adjust with the pan from the mixer?
Because i always had them centered, and thing is it sounds a bit box-ey. Maybe i need two cabs for this?
@@VDthrash All time-based effects that employ very short delays, be they flanger, chorus, or even vibrato, risk sounding box-ey under certain conditions. I suspect this quality will depend partly on where you're taking the regeneration tap from on the STD-1, how much regen you're using, and what sort of delay range one is using. For example, any BBD-based pedal/effect that has no taps, and takes its feedback/regen from the final output of the BBD will tend to produce a sound similar to a standing wave, because the recycled signal has the identical delay time to the BBD output, such that it produces a resonance. If the delay time is long enough, as in an analog delay, one only hears this as repeats/echoes, and not a resonant emphasis. But reduce the time delay on that very same pedal/effect and it quickly gets VERY "box-ey" with even small amounts of regeneration. So if maybe you take your feedback tap from the last stage (6), but use earlier stages for the chorus-like sound you want, that may reduce any box-ey quality.
Again, I don't have one of these beauties in either hardware or software form. I'm going only on what I know about BBD-based devices and the schematic (which I do have). I hope this answers your needs.
I own a number of flangers; among them is a pair of Boss BF-1 units. These have a manual delay control, similar to the "Fixed" control on the STD-1. I lifted one end of the resistor that mixes dry with wet on each of them, such that they each provide a time-delayed signal that can be modulated by the LFO or held stable. I built a splitter-mixer unit that sends the signal toeach of the BF-1s, and combines their respective outputs. Because I can introduce a manual delay, this allows the modulated signal to move "ahead" of the other one in time, yielding through-zero flanging. Because I can vary the manual delay, I can set how much further ahead in time the swept one moves, before passing "through zero" again on its way back. Even more interesting, if I allow them both to be modulated, because they each have their own independent LFO, the thru-zero point becomes unpredictable and random.
@@markhammer643 wow that's some quality info here...Those Boss BF-1 mods are sick! It would be amazing to have you as my guitar tech on our live gigs!
Also using the lo input, don't know if this the correct thing to do...
Yes, thats it! lowering the regen or having it off is much better to my ears!
I'm going to experiment more with this, because the fixed knob is really interesting when turning it back and forth, while also having a different sound, depending on what position you leave it!
Another thing i tried is from the mixer i had the pan centered, as i mentioned, and going all the way to the hard right i get no sound...
Only hard left or centered...Is this supposed to work like this or my wiring is wrong?
Thanks for all the info and help!
I would pay for a pedal which does this sound only (solo at the beginning). Just one sound, perfect.
The delay is part of his later work, but listen to his stuff with Tony Williams Lifetime, where his tone was really dry-like an SG directly into a Marshall. Or his work on Soft Machine's Bundles album. Very dry and plain. And yet you can tell from those works that a lot of his tone was in his left hand.
Wow kudos to this video, and this comment.. thought the wall of delays was purely just for his swells sounds.. now i know it was a huge part of that tasty thickness
This works great for the Pat Metheny wide airy sound as well. Patch #11 to my ear. I own this unit.
It sorta adds a very subtle chorus as well as the stereo spread. Lovely playing too!
Fantastic tips, and Yamaha of course always have made superb products. Sadly, the UD stomps are sitting around £500 used......people know quality I guess ^^
I think I might be able to simulate the UD Stomp in a DAW, just need to setup the 4 parallel multi tap delays, then the longer ones after that.
Flipping brilliant!
Thanks for this John, I love the way all those delays make the notes bloom.... really fun sound to play with and thanks again for doing the work and sharing... very cool!
Beautiful song!❤
The Holdsworth sound is very nice, you can't always get something that comes close to the real one, I'd like it if I could do the same sound with the Quad Cortex, since there aren't many. Thank you so much John as always you are number one👍
Such beautiful playing capturing the beautiful side of AH's lines.
I'm experimenting with levels so that when I turn the multi-tap block off it doesn't feel like I forgotten how to play the guitar !
You have to look at the entire signal chain starting with the guitar itself. Allan experimented constantly swapping pickups necs and customizng his pedals etc. He also had the option of a few luthiers who wanted to build /modify for him. Starting with the guitar your tone definitely has a bit of 'Drive' to it, meaning some gain/overdrive. Not metal crunching but just enough to smear it up a bit in a good way. AH had a Dimarzio endorsement when he was with UK but he changed pcikups alot. He also went thru many delays choruses etc I have photos i took when working a few Allan gigs as well as having the honor of opening for him a couple of times in the 80s. His rack setup was extensive and grew when he started using the SynthAx He had Oberhiem Expanders as well. I mean 2 1/2 full racks of gear, a couple combo amps , another separate Amp head and several cabs. Later he was pairing down but still quite the signal routing puzzle. So when you /we talk about his sound its not just a couple pedals but the entire rig. Sadly many try to emulate his tones and playing . While he would feel somewhat humbled by this , he more so eschewed people trying to copy him. Because he believed so much in improvisation and finding one's own sound that when he heard a player copying him he shook his head wondering 'Why doesn't he do his own thing ?" and I whole heartedly agreed with him.
Nice insight into Allan's tone and a great look at how to use multi-tap delay in general. Thanks!
Heard a friends. D. U. N. B. L. E. ROBBEN FORD model over iphone in 2008. That amp literally NAILED this sound n effect DRY. W NO FX! If u ever see one for sale …….
I know basically every lick the man has ever played and you've got the tone very close...well done...my obsession continues..more work on chords dude
This is gold John - kudos! I get areally nice Allan tone using Celestion 4x12 Bluebell IR and Cali rectifire (Helix floor)FWIW
Nice playing! Thanks.
Great playing and sound!
Great playing John.
It's curious how older equipment is easier to get a ready sound...despite all the technology built into the HX, it's not something practical to try at a show...I'd go with UD Stomp...
Amazingly done! Thanks for this!
Beautiful! Any chance you have this performance musically notated or tabbed? Love to see that.
Spot on! Absolutely brilliant vid, thank you!
son your hard work just about pulling my hair trying to catch what your settings are
As always, great content John!
Any chance of more videos with the GX-100?
Some great stuff here. I’ve got a pretty decent AH clean sound in my Helix, but I’m going to try some of this to see if I can make it even better.
Beauty musical playing!
Learned a lot from this one. Keep up the good work!
Quality Vid, thanks
ive seenem w/SOLDERING gun IN his mesa Dual Recs, he knew a few things @ amps too..
Awesome explanation! Thanks!
I have one MagicStomp- and a Boss GX-100 - Would be nice to try a combined setting to re-create this sound.
Shame because 9 delay lines are a minimum for me
Modulation. A critical parameter you overstepped.
Each delay share same modulation depth, but all set to DIFFERENT rates/speed.
The modulation is very critical folks.
No modern delay units are as efficient as Yamaha's pedals.
Now if someone can recreate the Magicstomp MK II at least, Strymon and Line 6 miss the mark.
I bought one. It sounds nothing like this. I actually can't get a good sound out of it, even with the presets
Can you do this with a HX One or no because of the limited blocks?
I was about to purchase one today before coming back to this video for a revisit and it seems that I will need multiple blocks.
I have a magistomp but can't get it to interface with my Mac to download AH delays. Need a PC with Windows 10 I believe. However I'm getting close with my Kemper setting two two quad delays with those delay times & Bill Ruppert's Holdsworth profile
Absolutely love this video thank you! I've joined your Patreon but I can't find the backing track for the intro! Could you kindly direct me pls? Thank you!
6:45 sounds a lot more like eric johnsons tone
I think the lead tones in this video also sound like Allen Hinds ("the other AH") .There are a few nice videos here on RUclips. Check him out. Maybe it has something to do with the single coil pickups used here. Allen Hinds and Eric Johnson Johnson both use mostly strats too.
So great as always!
Please sell me a tab of that lick at 4:40 🙂 I owned one of these but it never won me over. I prefer the Mk1b Quadraverb 8- tap delay where you have one modulator that feeds all 8 taps which have their own time, volume and panning. Plus the important global feedback.
Wonderful video....opens up the mind you're great and inspirational....do you think its possible to achieve this sound on Quad CORTEX?
used UD Stomp price 📈⬆.
i gooned to this
thank you
Soulful Intro man! ❤
You’ve always said that
Chameleon guitarist !!! Magic playing.
nice job
What amp and stuff is being used in my question
Can this be done on a pod go very seductive tone thank you
very cool
thx
How do I get this in a rackmount?
Can I get this tone with Strymon Dig and Strymon BlueSky?
I don't think so - it's quite a specific multi-tap delay type algorithm that you'd need to properly copy it
here for the comments section.
Any specific tunes/albums of Allans Holds worth checking out? (Dumb pun but serious question)
Non brewed condiment
The Sixteen Men of Tain is a great track (and album) and maybe especially accessible, as is something like Tokyo Dream. As for albums it depends what you're into- None Too Soon is a jazz standards album, Atavachron and Sand are crazy sci-fi fusion. In my opinion the best first albums to listen to the whole way through that concisely sum his music up are Metal Fatigue and Hard Hat Area
Every one
“Farting about in the dark” 😂
I sold mine 😢😭
You had distortion before you even kicked on the UD. How'd you get that????????? Reverb or Delay is not the essential part of his sound but creamy, full, round overdrive or distortion is. He already had this tone in his late 70s work (UK, Gazeuse!, JLPonty) so re-creating his tone should be possible without 21th century's technologies.
gonna have to dust off my yamaha stomp pedal
0:00
👍👍👍
It's the volume, otherwise he'd have no tone. Elementary stuff.
waht is your guitar?
You’re myth busting the “Holdsy’s tone is all in his fingers” which they’ve said for the past 10 years in guitar forums whenever anyone asked about getting the Holdsy tone.
My Boss DD3 gets close
is this for sale?
Do you want it?
@@johnnathancordy Check your Inbox.
Aha!
It’s all about all of his settingsand his touch.
First one….
This is great video John! I've also featured the delay sounds of Allan Holdsworth in my BOSS MS-3 Deep Dive series. Here is the latest.
ruclips.net/video/8I3pLWk097Q/видео.htmlsi=ifCX88OUvmHiEJqq
Boss MS-3 Deep Dive: 7 Tap Delay, Can it UD-STOMP like Allan Holdsworth?
I enjoy your vids often, keep up the great work ! - James
Ud stomp sounds better
I hate it when the who’s-a-what’s-it doesn’t get granular enough!
Something is off.