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lately have been thinking about how the guys like ignatowich, thomas, and hayden have really powerful forehand overheads and it looks like they are all snapping their wrist. this is not the really high overheads where their body is fully extended and their right arm is fully extended but more like a 3/4 overhead (or their arm swing is just super fast and I'm missing the extension moment). feel like they are all using some wrist for additional power.
thanks for this content. it was in the back of my mind and got to apply it over the weekend, adding wrist flick to overheads. helped get the ball down to opponent's feet at nvz. although it still freaks me out how some guys do not back off the line at all when I have a full overhead opportunity (with arm at full extension)... I'm afraid if I mishit, it could hurt them...
The only time "wrist" movement is indicated is on punchy counters and overheads. The video was a little confusing because they were both mixing up wrist movement with forearm rotation. There is no reason to recruit wrist movement when trying to add spin. It adds a layer of inconsistency into these shots when forearm rotation, and shoulder rotation and flexion will generate more than enough spin. Look at 11:55 in the video when Zane says "if you feel like you've topped out the amount of spin you can get by just brushing up on the back of the ball, maybe that's when you add that little bit of wrist in" but then he demonstrates this by using forearm rotation, not wrist movement. Zane, if you or others disagree then I challenge you to watch yourself, or other top pros, in slow motion and pay close attention to what your wrist is doing. You'll see a ton of forearm rotation but little to no movement at the wrist.
I agree in part that the forearm rotation accounts for much of what is causing the wrist to also rotate around the ball. but some of the pro players I think also have so much fine motor control that they enhance that motion with intentional wrist manipulation (mostly on say speed ups off the bounce at the kitchen line, from the forehand side). I was watching alshon's speedups and felt like that was a combo of forearm rotation with wrist manipulation... but I think something like a topspin shot back at the baseline where you are using more of a backswing and more of your upper arm, you can afford to use less wrist and still get the ball's arc to move down
These questions were what you might find on a comprehensive exam. The answers were impossible to predict as nuances appeared in certain follow throughs and types of shots. Great job with the questions and the answers were equally competent.
Another great instructional video. If only I can remember to keep wrist firm when the action gets fast.
8 месяцев назад+5
Love the video. If I can give you a quick tip next time you record with 2 wireless mics, set it to merge both channels so we can hear both of you in both ears in this one Zan came throu in the right ear only. You can do this in post while editing too.
Can you have another video focusing on the elbow action? I know quite a lot people with tennis elbow after playing pickleball and are eager to find out the best way to use elbow.
Zane, you were in a video with John Zincola. John talked about hitting a strong drive or serve and it involve the lag of the paddle. That for me requires the wrist snapping through and keeping the paddle face square to the target. Here you talk about not using the wrist or snapping it but more of the swing arc. You guys are confusing us
Watch Daniel de la Rosa in slo-mo & study his wrist action(especially in Singles)!! Why? He’s been #1 on the IRT Racquetball Tour & you need a wrist snap on every shot in RB!!
A little additional medical terminology helps clarify this discussion on "wrist" movement, I think. Zane, the terms you are searching for is pronation/supination of the forearm vs wrist flexion/extension. On a topspin forehand drive we aren't breaking our wrist (just like you say), we are holding our wrist extension through the striking portion of the swing and pronating to complete the impact portion of the swing (the wrist may breakdown at the end of the swing after the impact portion is complete). With a standard overhead we are largely snapping the wrist into flexion more than any pronation. With the reach out backhand snap volley, lots of wrist with some pronation. Wrist flexion/extension can give you more power but at the cost of control. Pronation/supination of the forearm provides more spin when you are looking for more spin than brushing alone provides, does add a layer of complexity to the shot, but doesn't induce as much loss of control as wrist flexion/extension.
The wrist has 3 degrees of freedom (roll, pitch, yaw). Rather than just talking about wrist or no wrist, it would be helpful to have more detail about exactly which wrist motions are useful. For me, I'll use roll and/or yaw (viewed from holding your palm horizontal), but not much pitch motion.
It seems this might be a semantic argument. You’re saying no wrist on dinks, even for pros, but the vast majority of pros hit topspin roll dinks at least sometimes. A roll requires a wrist movement. You’re just defining it in a weird way.
For professional play the toss is illegal. For any play initial contact above the navel is illegal. That part probably wouldnt be called as its very close. This all said I learned some things from the video and whether his serve is legal didnt really affect anything. I agree tho it appears illegal.
Depends on where you’re going with the ball, but I’d say wrist if you’re early enough. I play with a semi-western to western grip and I use a tomahawk a lot. More than most I’d say.
Video made possible by Yobow! Make sure you’re recovering with the most compact massage pistol on the market. Each purchase includes a free Yobow warm-up band free ($25 value)!
zanenavratilpickleball.com/shop/
lately have been thinking about how the guys like ignatowich, thomas, and hayden have really powerful forehand overheads and it looks like they are all snapping their wrist. this is not the really high overheads where their body is fully extended and their right arm is fully extended but more like a 3/4 overhead (or their arm swing is just super fast and I'm missing the extension moment). feel like they are all using some wrist for additional power.
thanks for this content. it was in the back of my mind and got to apply it over the weekend, adding wrist flick to overheads. helped get the ball down to opponent's feet at nvz. although it still freaks me out how some guys do not back off the line at all when I have a full overhead opportunity (with arm at full extension)... I'm afraid if I mishit, it could hurt them...
The only time "wrist" movement is indicated is on punchy counters and overheads. The video was a little confusing because they were both mixing up wrist movement with forearm rotation. There is no reason to recruit wrist movement when trying to add spin. It adds a layer of inconsistency into these shots when forearm rotation, and shoulder rotation and flexion will generate more than enough spin. Look at 11:55 in the video when Zane says "if you feel like you've topped out the amount of spin you can get by just brushing up on the back of the ball, maybe that's when you add that little bit of wrist in" but then he demonstrates this by using forearm rotation, not wrist movement. Zane, if you or others disagree then I challenge you to watch yourself, or other top pros, in slow motion and pay close attention to what your wrist is doing. You'll see a ton of forearm rotation but little to no movement at the wrist.
I agree in part that the forearm rotation accounts for much of what is causing the wrist to also rotate around the ball. but some of the pro players I think also have so much fine motor control that they enhance that motion with intentional wrist manipulation (mostly on say speed ups off the bounce at the kitchen line, from the forehand side). I was watching alshon's speedups and felt like that was a combo of forearm rotation with wrist manipulation... but I think something like a topspin shot back at the baseline where you are using more of a backswing and more of your upper arm, you can afford to use less wrist and still get the ball's arc to move down
These questions were what you might find on a comprehensive exam. The answers were impossible to predict as nuances appeared in certain follow throughs and types of shots. Great job with the questions and the answers were equally competent.
Another great instructional video. If only I can remember to keep wrist firm when the action gets fast.
Love the video. If I can give you a quick tip next time you record with 2 wireless mics, set it to merge both channels so we can hear both of you in both ears in this one Zan came throu in the right ear only. You can do this in post while editing too.
Can you have another video focusing on the elbow action? I know quite a lot people with tennis elbow after playing pickleball and are eager to find out the best way to use elbow.
Zane, you were in a video with John Zincola. John talked about hitting a strong drive or serve and it involve the lag of the paddle. That for me requires the wrist snapping through and keeping the paddle face square to the target. Here you talk about not using the wrist or snapping it but more of the swing arc. You guys are confusing us
Watch Daniel de la Rosa in slo-mo & study his wrist action(especially in Singles)!! Why? He’s been #1 on the IRT Racquetball Tour & you need a wrist snap on every shot in RB!!
Beautiful, thank you!
A little additional medical terminology helps clarify this discussion on "wrist" movement, I think.
Zane, the terms you are searching for is pronation/supination of the forearm vs wrist flexion/extension. On a topspin forehand drive we aren't breaking our wrist (just like you say), we are holding our wrist extension through the striking portion of the swing and pronating to complete the impact portion of the swing (the wrist may breakdown at the end of the swing after the impact portion is complete). With a standard overhead we are largely snapping the wrist into flexion more than any pronation. With the reach out backhand snap volley, lots of wrist with some pronation.
Wrist flexion/extension can give you more power but at the cost of control. Pronation/supination of the forearm provides more spin when you are looking for more spin than brushing alone provides, does add a layer of complexity to the shot, but doesn't induce as much loss of control as wrist flexion/extension.
Zane, this is what you were doing instead of playing in NC!? I was looking forward to meeting you.
The wrist has 3 degrees of freedom (roll, pitch, yaw). Rather than just talking about wrist or no wrist, it would be helpful to have more detail about exactly which wrist motions are useful. For me, I'll use roll and/or yaw (viewed from holding your palm horizontal), but not much pitch motion.
The wrist lag only happened when you hold your paddle loose the head speed will create power and spin IMO
It seems this might be a semantic argument. You’re saying no wrist on dinks, even for pros, but the vast majority of pros hit topspin roll dinks at least sometimes. A roll requires a wrist movement. You’re just defining it in a weird way.
Is it my impression or the guy's serve was completely illegal? First the tosses the ball UP, then he hits it way above his hip?!
For professional play the toss is illegal. For any play initial contact above the navel is illegal. That part probably wouldnt be called as its very close. This all said I learned some things from the video and whether his serve is legal didnt really affect anything. I agree tho it appears illegal.
Andre Mick
Ben’s cross court dink is outrageous. Tomahawk is wrist or no wrist ??
no wrist. just twisting forearm.
Depends on where you’re going with the ball, but I’d say wrist if you’re early enough. I play with a semi-western to western grip and I use a tomahawk a lot. More than most I’d say.