Battle of Annaberg - Germany and Poland Fight Over Silesia I THE GREAT WAR 1921
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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The question of the allegiance of the ethnically mixed region of Silesia had already caused heated diplomatic arguments between Germany, Poland and the Allies after the First World War. After a divisive plebiscite the situation escalated into violence. Neither Germany nor Poland could officially send troops, but German Freikorps and Pro-Polish militias fought it out.
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» SOURCES
Boehler, Jochen. Civil War in Central Europe 1918-1921 (OUP, 2018)
Campbell, F. Gregory: The Struggle for Upper Silesia, 1919-1922. In: The Journal of Modern History, Vol. 42, 1970.
Lesniewski, Peter: Britain and Upper Silesia 1919-1922. 2000.
Michalczyk, Andrezej: Celebrating the nation: the case of Upper Silesia after the plebiscite in 1921.
Hitze, Guido: Die oberschlesische Frage im Jahre 1921. In: Die Politische Meinung 12/02.
Hitze, Guido: Oberschlesien als internationaler Streitfall. In: PAN 20/01.
Hoefer, Karl: Oberschlesien in der Aufstandszeit 1918-1921. Erinnerungen und Dokumente, 1938.
Tooley, T. Hunt: German Political Violence and the Border Plebiscite in Upper Silesia, 1919-1921. 2008.
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»CREDITS
Presented by: Jesse Alexander
Written by: Jesse Alexander
Director: Toni Steller & Florian Wittig
Director of Photography: Toni Steller
Sound: Toni Steller
Editing: José Gamez
Motion Design: Philipp Appelt
Mixing, Mastering & Sound Design: above-zero.com
Maps: Daniel Kogosov ( / zalezsky )
Research by: Markus Linke, Jesse Alexander
Fact checking: Florian Wittig
Channel Design: Yves Thimian
Contains licensed material by getty images
All rights reserved - Real Time History GmbH 2021
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And the only RUclips channel that want to organize a plebiscite on the RUclips algorithm. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Become verified creators for Brave and I will support you with one BAT.
My great grandfather fought in this battle - thanks for the video...
signed up, and paid, for subscription, specifically for complete "The Great War" series; after searching at their website, no such "channel" can be found... lots of other stuff... nothing Great War Series... not even after "WWI" search... suckered into another scam??
this is not "annnaberg" this place name st.anna mountain
This period 1919-1921 has to be the most interesting and rare this channel has covered so far
It will be for sure! Especially thinking about the Central Europe(especially Poland and Romania stuff)... Crazy times...
Europe was probably the most chaotic it has ever been during that period. So many wars, proxy wars, civil wars, rebellions, uprisings, conflicts, everything. Same for other places like China. Truly, the "War to end all wars" made the world more divided than ever.
It is. And this guy does an excellent job, doesn't he?
I'm impressed by your pronunciation of either polish or german names. Well done Jesse, sign of great professionalism.
He studied and lives in Vienna, Austria, if I am not mistaken. So that explains the german part.
But you are right, it is very nice to have a presenter who does not butcher every second name. 😅
I came to the comments to say the same. Very impressed with his pronunciation!
It’s s a Polish land that’s why the majority was “Polish speaking”, Germans wanted that land for themselves because of the coal. Poland was partitioned and occupied by Germany a few times; each time to try to Germanize, the people (there’s even a sentence about this in Polish anthem “we won’t let our children to be “germanize”)
so this region is very much influenced by German culture, even local language has some germanic influences.
I love the lesser known topics that shaped things in the interwar period as a result of the Post WWI map making. Thank you for covering this is a thorough and unbiased way.
Same here. So many people think Nov.11 was the end of fighting in Europe until Hitler came along. not so. In recent period after that Germans were still fighting in the Baltic region against the commies and here against Poland and faction battles n their own broken county, and that's just Germany.
Its interesting. I find it funny in a morbid kinda way that not even in Europe can Europeans draw borderlines on maps without everyone wanting to kill everyone.
@@smathers3104 It took the (communists?) till 2019 to take over the world.
Ww1 map is actual Europe map.poland got robbed
@@Nostripe361
You assume that 'European' is an 'identity'.
It's not.
Europe is merely an area on a map. No more; no less.
I don't believe you are the ONLY RUclips channel that wants a plebiscite on the YT algorithm.
Me too. They should make a Coup d'état on RUclips algorithm insted :)
Come on Google, don't be evil.
We can win that plebiscite. Give us the date for the vote!
@@stevenginsberg8471 And if we lose the plebiscite, we will invade Germany!
wait, what?
@@miguelrodriguezcimino1674 they specifically made a note to remove that from their motto
for what reason? you can guess
This is what I hate about the British education system we were never told about these important post war events happening all over europe, apparently the guns fell silent on the 11th Nov 1918 and the world was once again at peace. Thankfully there are fantastic channels like this one to help us understand the consequences of a flawed peace treaty for ordinary people
Literally, we do . The module 'Hilter rise to power ' is about 1918 to 1934 , the wars between the wars . 1/3 of the GCSE is about it...
Indeed, this channel is part of a healthy diet of research, discovery and understanding of everything we were deprived of white growing up on the winners side where glory often matters more than the truth! There. :-)
It's really weird. I didn't know about this conflict either and I went to school in Germany. One would think that in all the time we spend going through this part of history again and again we could talk about topics like these for a minute. Maybe they didn't want to risk somehow destroying the narrative or it just didn't seem important enough, I don't know.
In America we never even learn that the Soviets invaded Poland in 1920 with the intention of spreading the Marxist revolution to Germany and the rest of Europe. I do understand why it is not taught by American educators though, it would make communists look bad.
In fact the Great War continued for another two weeks in East Africa between GB and Germany
This many years in who would have thought that a Great War upload still makes my day?
You must know how the fate of Silesia was confused. See my grandmother as an example. A husband in the German Afrika Korps, he was captured and until 1947 in a POW camp in the USA.
The first brother was in the Wehrmacht in tanks, he was killed by a Russian bullet in captivity because he had sugar. My grandmother's second brother got into the KZ Theresienstadt for not showing up in the Wehrmacht unit. The third brother was an officer in the Polish army, took part in the Warsaw Uprising and died there, hit in the back by a sniper bullet. Only one brother survived, the one who did not agree to military service.
Thank you for sharing that story. As an upper-silesian I appreciate your work even more.
I'm german but this is the first time I heard about this. In school I never heard about this and in another video I saw, they said based on elections of the people living there it was divided. I think it would be important enoughto teach us in school
I think it's a matter of how much you can fit into the time available in school.
How would that water down the following lessons when we learn in school that everything and anything is OUR fault? Imagine how less the impact would be if we learned that in that place in time that Germany was not the only one feeling a little trigger happy? Does not fit the narrative you want to establish in the heads of Young Germans.
Don’t worry :) a lot of us silesians have double citizenship. Even though this region went to Poland in 1921- in my hometown and area there was not a single polish school, there were only german schools so people were taught in german and they spoke german (like my grandparents). Generally uneducated people have been cheated by polish government and their propagators that there is going to be social country (socialism was trendy back then and germany was poor after losing 1ww) and each miner will get some ownership of the colliery and they will be richer. Obviously after they fought to get to Poland, they received nothing. The only outstanding thing was that the region had autonomy in II republic of Poland. My great grandfather joined back then the german party and his brother - polish. They never spoke to each other again - politics was divisions families
@@parziiich Poles from Silesia didn't fight to get money. They fought, because they felt Polish and wanted to be in Poland rather than be again occupied by germans, who not so long ago abused them. The reason why there were no Polish school in your region is forced germanization. I bet you would like to stand side by side in the WW1 Austrian Army with guy with funny moustache, who later became quite a politician.
@@bartecki6 Don't be ashamed and say that there's no Silesian nation, no Silesian language and culture, in Silesia there're only Poles, and history of Silesia began just after the end of I WW. This is what the Polish governments claim, and this means that they are doing exactly the same thing that the Germans did to the Poles during the partitions. A word that no Pole will even bother to mention is POLONIZATION.
This channel continues to be excellent quality. Thanks for everything Jesse and keep up the awesome work. Many of us very much appreciate the work you put into this channel to keep it alive.
Thanks!
The Picture at 15:17 dosn't show Annaberg in Silesia it's a Picture of Annaberg in Saxony.
Still extremly well made Video, thanks.
Bad Google 😂🤣😂🤣
Part of my family comes from Upper Silesia. I never heard of this conflict. Thank you very much!
Well your surname sounds both polish and german at the same time
Yaaaay, very specific episode for me, i'm from the Polish town of Katowice from Silesia region
I thought Teddy Roosevelt was from NY? :)
You mean Kattowitz !?))))
@Maximus sounds better in German.and historically it is Germany. she was part of the Holy Roman Empire.
@gobas88 Wanna change the Map again and take back the Territory to Warmia and Mazovia?
@@FerdinandGamelin How can it sound better in German if it's just a Germanization of a Slavic name?
Hello,
I am one of the enthusiasts of your channels both on a RUclips and on Nebula as well. I am Pole as an origin, born in Poznan and I am happy to see, you can avoid single sided (Polish and/or German) point of view on this very complexed problem. Simply: thank you. However, I have one favour to ask, you continuously exceed your 100th anniversary formula in both directions. Maybe you can find interest and time to present the Polish Greater Poland uprising of December 27th 1918, which is significant for me (but not only for me), because is one and only major polish uprising which has prevailed to this very day.
Best Regards
Marek Tomczak
The idea that Lloyd George's support for the Germans, in this case, had anything to do with moral concerns is honestly laughable. That's not how empires operate when it comes to foreign policy, especially if the decision isn't a fast, impulsive one. He supported the Germans because he saw Poland as a French protectorate, and didn't want to strengthen France too much at Germany's expense. The point was to keep balance on the continent, not favour whoever happened to be right or wrong.
This cold calculated kind of thinking was certainly scarce in France by that time.
@@MSNL123 I mean, idk. France guaranteed the independence of basically all of Eastern Europe. regardless of what the politicians said in public or what might be written down in official files, they acted like they were creating a strong net of alliances and dependencies. France was the main force on the ground when any western power was directly involved. It gave tanks and other equipment to the new nations in the east. It secured investments there... All of this is perfectly reasonable to do regardless of anything else, but it's also the kind of thing that makes onlookers think "oh, these guys are getting strong, maybe we should kick them in the nads before they're too strong?"
.
Turns out the British really overestimated the French and underestimated the Germans...
@@CatWithAHat2HD These dealings with eastern europe are (in the whole) perhaps the smartest decision the french made in the early 1920s. And maybe, had all of then stuck toghether - a daunting task for the french diplomacy, but achievable thanks to their sheer power (not only military) - maybe they could have replaced Russia in the geopolitical considerations of the region and (that's a huge maybe) allowed France to get away with its vengeance on the germans.
I do think the french miscalculated several times, and grossly, by (1) ending the Great War demanding a new regime to negociate with, then (2) presenting IT with an artificially large - and (3) on the process of being enlarged - bill of the mess of their predecessors, partly to (4) enlarge several eastern allies it would (5) then proceed to abandon in the late 1920s and 1930s, starting at Locarno.
I don't think the british miscauculated, though. They had fastly diminishing capabilities (political and economical, if not military) to intervene in the continent. A Germany in the 1920s incandescent with hatred towards french and poles is a Germany that needs (armed and watchful) babysitting. To allow it to rebuild their international standing and internal affairs - after printing on the very soul of the nation the lesson on why the old ways were wrong - is a pacification strategy with some chance to work. To pose on the side of the fair players - with some care to not be caught redhanded too shortly afterwards - is not necessarily a principled approach to peacebuilding, but may be a convenient path to remove reasons for a rematch and build trust that can be turned into an useful instrument.
@@MSNL123 I think the post war peace was destroyed the moment French decided that they wanted revenge and to punish Germany instead of just reforming the nation. Pretty much they wanted to break Germany and make it forever a weak power. The problem for them was that the people in Germany would never accept that and all their work to break them just lead to the Germans to walk right into the arms of the Far Right and its promise to fix Germany and reclaim its strength.
That is, as always, the British are very helpful to Poland ! ;-D
I would have thought I knew a lot about history, but I absolutely never heard of this before, thank you for teaching us about subjects that aren't discussed :)
Brilliant episode. I hope someday we will have something much bigger and better than RUclips which will help thrive creators such as TGW without all this stress. 😞
It's called Nebula
Love how I still see new videos of the great war
So happy to see this upload.
Amazing video. I thought I was pretty knowledgeable with European history, but had to admit that I had never heard of the upper-silesian dispute ever before. thanks for making me learn.
A well made podcast with an objective view on little known (if at all in the UK) example of post Great War problems. I am a big fan of the series.
Thanks!
I want to add as an epilogue, that In september '39 German Einsatzgruppen had very detailed lists of people who took part in silesian uprisings and killed them all
@Fabian Kirchgessner it was not revenge it was the planned and fully supported attempted extermination of the Polish Nation by the German Government, nothing new since the times of Bismarck.
@@kamratkamrat3302 Germanophobic nonsense and slander. Nothing new since the Silesian uprisings.
They did everything right. The Poles and the French did not care about the opinion of the people and formed a terrorist gang to kill all those who disagree with them. Typical of the West and Poles is deceitful, hypocritical and Germanophobic behavior, coupled with stupid anger and hatred of Germans and resentment.
Do you have sources, I couldn't find it anywhere.
@@Ghreinos You couldn't find any sources about Einsatzgruppen atrocities on the internet?
My mother is a German American immigrant. My great grandfather fought in the great war. Its crazy to me that men that saw the horror of that war returned to fight another. Stronger men than me for sure. Wow. I love these videos. so informative on smaller conflicts I never knew about! Thanks! keep em coming! Also the German pronunciation is great! Danke Sehr!
After all their sacrifices, some post WW1 Germans would not agree to the dismemberment of their country nor the loss of Germany's territorial gains in Russia. Because they were forged in war and didn't break (like I would have), they developed a whole new Weltanschauung.
Hello, I am a Pole living in Katowice, Silesia, so i decided to share someof my opinions with you. I've read every comment and I've encountered many people saying basically those 2 things:
1. Poland was aggressive and attacking it's neighbours, therefore it was the evil one
2. If the Germans won the plebiscyte, they should get the land and the Poles can't say anything about this.
And here are my views on those 2 opinions:
1. Poland did not have a clear border like Spain or France. The Polish people were living in many parts of Eastern Europe, usually mixed with other nationalities. Silesia was just one of many regions, that the reborn Polish state had the right to fight for (for the reasons of Poles living there). After Poland disapeared from the maps after the partitions, all Polish (disputed or not*) lands were under the control of some other power. In 1919 Poland had control mainly over the post-russian lands that were ethnically Polish, with Warsaw, Lodz, Lublin etc. There were also ethnically Polish lands in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but as it came to those lands, poles were not the only ones having rights to them. Ukrainians, Czechs and Slovaks all wanted some of those lands because they were partially of their ethnicity or because of historical claims (the second one is irrelevant in my opinion). The biggest problem of that situation was that there was no clear line on a map that divided those various ethnicities. That is why Poland fought with the Czechs and Ukrainians. They conquered all of the land disputed with Ukraine(which failed to survive) but mostly lost with the Czechs(*Poland had a bigger problem to the east). The lands taken by Prussia in the partitions were also ethically diverse. The Germans were a majority in cities like Danzig(Pomerania) or Kattowitz(Upper Silesia) but there were also many parts of those territories that were predominantly Polish. Like Poznań(Posen in German)-the capital of Greater Poland(that is the name of this region) or the rural parts of Upper Silesia. That is why there were tensions between Poles and Germans. Germany had all the lands that were disputed and did not wish to loose any and Poland had none at the start and wished to have those that are polish, whit the excemption of Pomerania. In Greater Poland a succesful uprising(made by people living in the region) secured those land for Poland. In Silesia... you saw the video.
2. In the terms of the plebsicite it was agreed that the lands would be split in some way. It wasn't like many people believe that the wining side takes all. The problem was the same as in post Austro-Hungarian lands, that the clear line dividing two ethnicities couldn't have been drawn. Anyway, 60% of people voted for Germany, many of those were Poles. One explenation may be that Poland was fighting the war with the Soviets in the east and therefore they looked more unstable, but I digress. The uprising did not start because the Poles wanted to take all of Silesia for themselfes, thereby ignoring the terms of the plebiscite, but to gain as much of ethnically polish parts of Upper Silesia for themselfes. Germany would be satsfied only if they keep all of Silesia and Poland could have been satisfied only if they get all ethnically Polish lands(which contradicted the German plans). The conflict was inevitable, no matter who got what.
@Fabian Kirchgessner I think you have just destroyed yourself
@Fabian Kirchgessner in which part did I show any racism?
Dzięki
@@run2fire for what and to whom?
@Fabian Kirchgessner you are just biased
I love your presentations, objective, complete and unbiased, thenk you.
A very well-presented documentary about a conflict that is virtually unknown in England.
I'd simply like to congratulate you on an excellent series.
Thank you
Thank you very much!
@@TheGreatWar
The pleasure is all mine. The dedication and skill are yours.
...and I subscribed. Not much, I know, but I don't often do that.
The fight over Upper Silesia perfectly illustrates the big problem with national histories. An ethnically and linguistically diverse region with its own regional identity like Upper Silesia does not conform to the neat boundaries and straightforward narratives that national histories try to promote. Regions like that transcend borders, which is why we need more transnational historical narratives!
We agree which is why modern historians like Jochen Böhler are much needed. His hypothesis is that the post ww1 eastern Europe Situation was a civil war.
Sadly, it's precisely in late 19-early 20th century when people decided that national, ethnic historiography is the way to go. People are described as one or the other. Historical populations are seen as an extention of the modern ones, as if your ancestors from 1000 years ago would even consider you as their own. It's all wrong, but it was how we build a world of the nation states. A view which hurts some regions to this day.
@@Vitalis94 You're right and i think the reason for that change in thinking was because of massive population growth in those times and that caused everyone to need more resources and that led to people claiming lands using these "historical justifications".
@@Vitalis94 Nation-states are not going anywhere. People may be willing to die to defend their nation-state but nobody is going to die for the EU. Covid-19 crisis has shown the power of nation-states. EU has turned out to be a joke despite Eurocrats' protestations.
@@CrazyLeiFeng What does it have to do with anything? I never claimed anything about the future of the nation states. Just national historical narration.
And defenitelly nothing about Covid. Just chill, man.
If you consider that Germany wasn't at Versailles to defend herself like in a normal trial, that once presented with the final document it wasn't allowed to complain let alone to negotiate and that the food blockade that killed around 700,000 Germans from starvation would only be lifted once the Germans had accepted responsibility for starting the war and had signed the documents... if you see all this as valid arguments then Germany had no reason to consider Versailles as a genuine treaty and would havehad no reason to feel compelled to respedt it and its clauses.
@@piotrbratek3996 Are you really calling me a Hitler? Wow, you have some nerve haven
Beside your excellent historical knowledge a compliment on your linguistic skills.
Regards from The Netherlands
For sale: one banana. Price: 2 trillion Reichmarks. Bring your own wheelbarrow with cash contained inside.
*us dollars
@@SteveVi0lence yea wait till 2023.
That was the "German prosperity" from the propaganda posters back then in reality.
You know you have hyperinflation when someone tips your money out of the barrow and runs off with it.
@@Darwinek it wasn't the Germans fault.
So this is part of the aftermath of the 'War to end all wars'?? Lol.
the war to cause all other wars to this day
Just a few wars in the east, Greeks and Turks...Irish and British...
I don't want to OVER-SELL the point I'm making...but one recurring theme that you touch on involves France's difficulty with the outcome of the War of 1870.
They were convinced that they were somehow wrongfully cheated in that war. This lead to their early "eagerness" to enter WW1 & to punish Germany afterwards. It would cost them dearly in less than 20 years.
@Aditya Chavarkar
WW1 French where call for war and reclaiming "French land"
Germany just decided to make first move
Great Britain always stands for fair play. Obviously they never did in Ireland.
Fair play for them means when they squeeze money from others, even if it is for opium...
Fair play means the British way
Yeah they fair played to death India. South Africa, etc etc etc
Same in india. They are hypocrites
Or Scotland.
Can you make a special about freikorps or stormtrooper uniforms, love the show
4:50 "War reparations" is the beginning of an extended crisis between the Allies and the Weimar Republic because of the exorbitant amount of money that the former were expecting the latter to pay. The government of Constantin Fehrenbach lost a no confidence vote on May 10 and collapsed, and Joseph Wirth replaced Fehrenbach. The same day the Reichstag voted 221 to 175 to accept Allied terms for reparations and war crimes, but the resulting hyperinflation crippled the Republic's ability to pay the Allies, leading to increasing tension that would peak in a French occupation of the Rhineland in 1923.
Keep your eyes peeled for our next episode if you're interested in the topic.
Please note that many Silesians fought for independence from Germany, not for joining Poland. Nowadays, a significant number of Silesians regret that Silesia remains part of Poland.
to chyba jakieś debile XD, jeżeli ktoś myśli że śląsk jest coś wart bez polski to się grubo myli. Może śląsk jest dużo wart jako poszczególny region ale jako osobne państwo to mógłby być przyrównany do jakiś zadupi typu białoruś
Great video, however it is clear that you did not use "The Silesian Uprisings 1919-1920-1921. The unknown Polish-German war" by Ryszard Kaczmarek - a professor from Silesian University in Katwoice. There are many aspects, like subversive activity in Silesia done by POW before the war (polish military spy network in Upper-Silesia), that you ommited. Kaczmarek's book has the most up-to date view on Silesian Uprisings and if one wants to have a full picture of the situation i'd recommend to check this book out.
A very excellent summary of events - neither simplistic, nor burdensome
A great and markedly balanced episode! Thank you!
My granddad fought during Silesian uprising on polish side. I still have his notes in form of rapport from that time :D
Super!
Gegen seine Ostoberschlesier gekämpft, wie traurig denn sie waren nicht nur Menschen sondern auch Cousinern, Tanten, Brüder, Schwester usw.
@@tJnani-rg5rl can you write that in understandable language?
@@KoW4LsKy
Ich kann Englisch nicht.
My great granddad on german side :D
I am from Upper Silesia and I always felt polish, german and silesian.
youre german though....and now forced pole. And silesian...youre not anymore since OOHH so long...
Don't forget your Austrian roots also ! lol 😆 Empress of Austria Maria Theresa lost Silesia to Frederick the Great in the mid 1700s.
@@faelger9473 How someone can be forever to be Who he is
I'm surprised that Poland could create an army in such a short time since there wasn't even a polish state since Napoleon
The Polish legions fought in WWI in hope of creating an idependent Poland.
There were many separate polish corps fighting on all sides of the conflict that later served as base for new army
Thanks for such an informative topic that’s never discussed any where .
France was very angry and wanted to punish Germany never mind the consequences. This lust for revenge and a nationwide case of post traumatic stress disorder would have consequences which they were not capable of believing could overcome them.
Maybe you should look on peace treaties created by Germans Treaty of Frankfurt in 1871 in or in 1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.
@@horatio8213 The germans up to that point can hardly be said to have a gracious victor's attitude. Or maybe this sentence would gain in precision if "germans" be changed to "prussian elites". Yes, they gladly swallowed up sovereign countries that opposed the unification of Germany under Prussia. Yes they imposed unnecessary hardships on the french on 1871 and sought to demolish Russia's or whoever controled the old Tsardom's lands power. But this was all on a old world, to be superseded in theory to a new world that the french themselves paid lipservice to. Crucially, all of the injustices signed into treaty under the pain of facing german bayonnets don't change the fact the french counsciously and deliberately made the young Weimar Republic's life harder than it already was predictably going to be. They planted the seeds of discontent whose fruits would be collected by grateful demagogues and chauvinists while signing off a said-to-be new order's blueprint. While one can hardly blame them from having the urges to do so, anyone can see they had yet to correct the same kind of behaviour that earned their XVI century predecessors some very negative remarks from Machiavelli about their (lack of) political and state-crafting capabilities. If they wanted to engage in old world's practices, they should have at least made sure that the old (Imperial) german regime was the one humiliated. As the partner with the C-in-C of the allied powers in 1918, if it was its ardent desire to get revenge or "justice" for old world's grievances on the germans, they should at least have made it blatantly clear for the germans that this was the legacy and heritage of the old regime, by having all of their agreements signed off by said old regime. By signing treaties punishing the germand for the vices of the old regime and having it signed by the new, the french made hollow any words they may have said about a new world, and in this un-dead old world, with all the inflamated old prejudices - that they lent plenty of fuel also by petty acts such as failing duties they accepted to perform, to keep the peace on Silesia - only ruthless diplomacy, of the kind they (spoiler) failed to engage in, or brute force, of the kind they knew since before the Great War they would not be able to exert across the Rhine could save them from ruin.
It's not really true that there was no "engagement" in ruthless diplomacy. France had wrapped up self-defense treaties with the US & UKs governments against Germany as early as 1919. The first was held hostage by the US Senate, which refused to ratify it since it had failed to be consulted in the drafting of the Versailles Treaty - why commit America to a policy of supporting terms they (ie, the staunchly anti-German Republican majority) couldn't contemplate ? The second was dropped by the Lloyd George cabinet when US Senate ratification became a lost cause - the UK understanding was that their commitment to backing France in support of Versailles was contingent on US support.
Ultimately, the turning point for France wasn't the severity of the Treaty terms, but Wilson's determination to keep control of the US mission to Versailles in order to try to push for a uniquely non-punitive peace settlement that wasn't politically viable in Washington.
@@gitothies6520 I'd agree that these moves are the engagement in some sort of diplomacy aimed at crippling Germany's ability to threaten France, but hardly it can be described as ruthless or even suficient. Looking into the future, France would surrender both its best defence on the case of a German Attack - an occupation zone well into its industrial heart - and any sense of trust its continental allies, Poland and Czechoslovakia had by seemingly throwing them under the bus at Locarno.
The reversal of belgian policy that led to its neutrality even on the face of detailed german plans to invade it can be at least partly traced to french diplomatical failures, and they failed to either change the belgian policy or adapt to it.
Furthermore, that the defensive works on the belgian border were kept really unimpressive compared to those on the german border, in part to not offend the belgians is symptomatic to a country either deluding itself or unwilling to accept some fundamentally simple truths. The first of which is that by building an extensive defensive line on their shared border, they were painting a target on Belgium and she, unlike France had no hope to defend against a concentrated attack by Germany. That they could protect Belgium on belgian soil or, if the belgians didn't agree to that, at least try to make her less tempting to the germans by barricading the franco-belgian border.
And then they sat down and tried to appease Hitler, which was not insensitive (without hindsight) but that ended on the sacrifice of Czechia (even if the Germans had complied by the treaty, the country was now basically defenceless and lost a big chunk of its heavy and military industry. They should also know that these efforts would fly in the face of any attempt at a more stern diplomacy to try and defend Poland. On the eve of the war, they lost sight of the reason for their historic defense of Poland - to undermine Germany, and failed to agree to quite sensitive soviet terms to protect her. I mean, everyone knew Stalin's intentions towards Poland, but soviet troops would have to enter it regardless if they were to defend it. And why would they not agree to soviet demands? Because Poland protested? I'm terribly sure the Czechs hadn't such power to bar what France viewed as its strategic imperative (them to keep peace, now to keep Germany's war efforts divided). They felt reassured that the ideological gap between Germany and Russia had grew too deep for a cooperation between them, and failed to either try to prepare for it, to try to have a contingency on that case or to try to react to it.
Finally, they allowed themselves to be dragged into a war to defend a country they hardly felt any need to actually ACT to protect, failed to give Belgium enought reasurances to convince the country to allow their troops into it and sat down, dreaming with plans to fight germans in Norway, in Sweden, anywhere but the places it had her troops in or where the germans actually were.
When you look to this, you see that France didn't make mistakes here and there, like Britain did. The whole interbellum policy of France towards Germany was a huge mistake because even when they adopted a course of action that wasn't that bad, they immediately undermined their own effort, and all efforts in a set of years would not be corrected, but activelly undermined in the next.
I'm generally in agreement with you, France's leadership was as troubled as any internal policy debate in France was at the same time.
All this aside, my comment was focusing more on the direct post-Versailles state of play. What diplomatic commitments did France pursue (successfully or no) when negotiating it's side of the Treaty ?
On this point, the original sin for France remains to me increasing it's stake at Germany's expense (a huge risk, with such a powerful neighbour) in the talks while certain that it's safety was guaranteed by all the Entente powers. The Treaty was set in stone by the time the US, the UK & later Italy made it clear no support would be given.
A strong hand suddenly turned weak & France in the 20s & 30s pursued an erratic policy of holding on to the best parts of Versailles, while at times trying to offset it's loss of protection by pumping up Central European allies, then sometimes abandoning them to favour Germany or the UK and maybe solidify a modus vivendi that way.
With assurances from the Entente going forward or even just the UK's uncommited support, I think we have the ingredients for a far more coherent French policy.
War & Postwar Events are extremely important. I’m thankful for your channel.
Do you know How is turtle in silesian dialect?
.....
Panzer żaba.
That means litteraly armored frog 😆😁😆🤣
Schildkröte shielded toad.
Beautiful example of a mix between german word panzer, and Polish word żaba
Pancerna żaba
@@Lucas_07-PL tak ziomek
Ej a czy nietoperz to po śląsku ”luftmysza"? Jak to kiedyś usłyszałem to padłem. 😁
Germany vs Poland, might be foreshadowing something
all while we tend to think prussia is ancient history.
No spoilers, please 🙂
The Polish leader Pilsudski foresaw the future.He said ."We are living in a golden cage.."
@@tolrem That republic only existed and it was founded because of Pilsudski.
@@rtservice6858
Und sowohl Pilsudski als auch Korfanty waren katholische Diktatoren.
Polish writer Czesław Miłosz once stated:
"The voice of passion is better than the voice of reason. The passionless cannot change history"
Sounds like something ISIS or Al Queda would say.
@@gordomg Really? Comparing a writer to radical terrorists? Ever heard of philosophers? In your opinion, they must be evil incarnate :D
@@gordomg Rather, sounds like something a romantic would say
@@Vitalis94 Shrugs. Karl Marx?
Very solid work. Thanks for making it!
Now this, this is quality content.
Another awsome episode about a topic I had little to no knowledge about!
Thanks!
After those events an autonomous Silesian Voivodeship was created with it's own constitution and parliament.
that's interesting....this region, even though it has a long history, reminds me of something like the americas...."new" peoples sussing out (modern economics, industrial professional tools of violence, and government) their claims of what is power while sorting out new ideas of the ethno-state, and how borders are delineated aka "new lands"
we still belive that we gonna get autonomy again...
@@mlodszyahmed Why lol.
@@Lucas_07-PL Because thats why our grandparents died in the uprising in the first place. They joined the Polish forces, because the promised that Silesia will have autonomy. We were then in 1945 betrayed, same in 1990.
@@mlodszyahmed You got an autonomy in country you'r grandparents fought for . And you know that this country was massacred , destroyed and reincarnated as a Communist Poland . You know well that we didn't had anything to say in PRL and couldn't change anything as communist authorities would never accept this. And after 1989 nodbody know that u want autonomy , they weren't mass demonstrations of Silesians demanding it. And so what , what Silesians want to do then ?
Great content as always!
1:45 yes! I'm glad you mentioned that many Upper Silesians considered themselves Silesians before German and Polish. And this remains so until today💛💙
Hardly a new information, to be honest.
@@Vitalis94 well it is for people who are not from that region
This was an important factor - we even went into a bit more detail in our previous episode on the first two uprisings.
If by many you mean a minority of modern-day Silesians consider themselves Silesian first then we agree. We have to remember that a larger part of today's Silesian population is composed of Poles that were deported from modern-day Ukraine and Belarus.
Not really. People from Silesia are getting 13 and 14 monthly wadges, deputat węglowy and so on. They live like pączki in butter. .
Great Britain in 1918: we should not weaken Germany too much.
Britain 20 years on: why is Germany so strong again?
Britain today: Because we made sure the Germans did not have a chance for a peace party to rule it, by not enforcing the treaty we set ourselves in the first place.
@@jeffvella9765 And the reason the treaty was not enforced, was that the Allies were not in the position to enforce it...at least not without a war or Germany turning communist. Look what happened in Turkey...
@@felixjohnsens3201 To enforce something all it takes is to support politically and not backstab the German govt they put in place at first chance to absolutely destroy any chance for it to work.
They wanted Germany dis-stabilized but instead what happened was that reason was thrown out of the window and the war party took over because they were the only party promising a better future.
@@jeffvella9765 "Sir H. Kennard (Warsaw) to Viscount Halifax
(Received August 19, 9.30 a.m.)
No. 271 Telegraphic [C 11592/54/18]
WARSAW, August 18, 1939, 5.25 p.m.
It was made known yesterday that a decree would shortly appear applying
to large estates in frontier zone, which had previously been exempt from the
law regarding agrarian reform.
2. Many of the estates affected are German-owned and though decree is
non-discriminatory, it was being hinted by P.A.T. official agency yesterday
that it would in fact operate to expropriate German estates.
...
5. I have however persuaded responsible British journalists here to take
the line that decree is non-discriminatory and an extension and continuation
of existing legislation and the French Embassy have taken similar action.
There is no comment at all in Polish press. "
"Sir N. Henderson (Berlin) to Viscount Halifax
(Received August 24, 12.15 p.m.)
No. 450 Telegraphic: by telephone [C 11914/15/18]
Herr Hitler's reply' clearly indicates that immediate question is not so
much Danzig and the Corridor, which by implication can wait for later
solution, as persecution of German minority.
2. I do not see how this question can be dealt with except by direct contact
with Poles. However exaggerated German press reports and whatever the
incitement to German nationals in Poland from this side of the frontier may
have been, and is, there is no doubt that there is much ground for German
complaints in this respect. Expropriation law referred to in Warsaw telegram
is to me, I submit, the basic indication of a very understandable but
equally inopportune effort to get [? rid of] the German population in Poland
under cover of guarantees of Western Powers.
..."
Nothing really changed except the British were a lot more hostile to Germany, giving Poland a false sense of security, and yes, Germany was again strong enough to actually do something about it.
@@tak4043 Please explain exactly what you are implying.
The govt put by the Allies was there to supposedly represent German interest and when the dispute with Poland came up the govt made promises to the people it could keep only if it had any real power.
The truth is that the Allies had the real power and did not care about German interests and when the poles got what they wanted, the next day the govt collapsed and the war party took the opportunity to take over.
If you mean that Germany was strong enough to do something while the Allies controlled govt was in power, that definitely was not the case.
Very interesting and objective video. Thanks to you I got some new perspective on the subject :)
greetings from Upper Silesia :*
Amazing and interesting video. You gotta love the old recordings
My granduncle was member of Freikorps Oberland in the rank of a Lieutenant. He has fallen leading an attack on an armoured train.
He is buried in Munich and his grave still exists!
@@maxsnuffy2159 What was he looking for in Silesia? It's not his land...
@@CrazyLeiFeng of course it was his land, he was German!
@@maxsnuffy2159 No, it was a conquered land of Slavic people. Nothing to do with Germans.
@@kms_scharnhorst It was the result of military conquest by Germans not because it had been German. Slavs lived even further to the West than Silesia.
Coal was evenly important as oil at that time. Industry, railways, ships,..were run on coal and steam.
Thus it is clear what the western allies wanted to do, they wanted to loot the coal from Silesia. Ethic consideration did not matter.
This is also the reason why London and Paris later financed the harbor of Gdynia and the Magistrala Weglowa.
Important was also to get cheap work. Wages for the Poles were certainly a lot lesser than in the west. This was in fact in opposition to the coal workers in Britain. Later the British oligarchs reduced the wages by 30% what caused a general strike 1926.
This strike was not successful.
It should be noted that Churchill wanted the use of the armed forces to end this strike.
The question is what Churchill wanted to do - did he want to introduce forced labor ?!
More or less the Poles betrayed the coal workers in Britain !
Pochodzę z Góry Świętej Anny, Śląsk. Na Śląsku bardzo rozwinął się przemsl, wsztstkim chodziło o węgiel. Niemcy chcieli Śląsk do siebie, Polacy też. Ślązacy byli w tej kwestii podzieleni. Jedni chcieli do Polski, inni zostać w granicy Niemiec. Czesto brat z bratem sue bił w walkach pod Górą Św Anny
I love your videos man
Thanks.
In Polish "Bitwa o Górę św. Anny."
In silesian "Chaja uo Anaberg"
„Schlacht von Annaberg" in German
Impossible to pronounce😑
Also Polen hat um Polen gekämpft, also mit sich selber gekämpft, oder was?
In shitolish*. There, fixed that for you.
1:50 for a moment, i thought he was Mark Twain
Silesia had been part of the original Polish state in the 10th C but went its own way during feudal disintegration in the 12th C. Gradually German settlers moved in from the west with the ethnic boundary gradually moving to the east.
Silesia was its own thing for a few centuries, and had history swung another direction it could've very well been the case that Silesia would be an independent country in its own right.
@@TheDirtysouthfan In the end, a country is a dialect with it's own army. Any given region could've easily been it's own state, if things had gone differently.
In the end those German settlers got overun by polish deportess.
@@Demicleas Overrun? What?
@@Vitalis94 oh polish people used to exist in Ukraine and Belarus they all got deported.
The English word 'fair', in its native context, doesn't truly exist in any other language....
Ok, could you explain it though? 'Cause the normal, dictionary sources just say it basically means "just" or "beautiful".
@@CatWithAHat2HD It's a much more nuanced concept than 'just'.
@@agrantharrison472 Then please explain.
As Silesian thank you for video! Pyrsk!
I am amazed how Germans carried on their fighting to defend their perceived rights in Silesia despite Germany was a defeated country. Great episode that also reveals forgotten aspects of the Franco-Italian involvement in Central Europe and the Franco-British struggle in Europe. Cheers Jesse & crew!
Merci Rabih!
You mean they were defending teritories they had stolen and germanized ?
@@Lucas_07-PL No I meant that Germans 100 years ago defended what they perceived as "their" territory, regardless of History before 1921 which, by the way, I am not totally aware of.
@@Lucas_07-PL 60% of the voters chose to remain with Germany, that's literally defending their own population. The Polish militias were on the wrong in this conflict for not respecting the plebiscite
@@riograndedosulball248 Bullshit . They voted for Germany bc the Polish soviet war was going on and Poland was about to loose . And bc of germanization , mass movment of germans to that region. If you want your population not to be attacked then you don't send them to colonize parts of neightbouring countries. History is on Polish side.
I did not know the details yet and I loved the documentary
How come you did not take into consideration Polish-Soviet war that had one of the most important turns exactly at that moment. Lloyd George also had a peculiar position on Poland in that topic.
That wasn't germanys problem
@@Wickedonezz Well it was, they had big problems with "Spartacus" so Yes THIS WAS their problem
Was hat die wahnsinnige Abschlachtungen der unschuldigen Menschen in Oberschlesien mit dem slavischen Krieg zwischen Polen und Russland alle insgesamt Slaven?
I much appreciate your series and applaud your approach to the subject and your research. You have a friend in Newfoundland.
Great video and great content ✌🏻
Greatings from silesia ❤️
Greetings to the fatherland!
@@dittmannrudolfrohr2149 But that's Poland
@@Lucas_07-PL „Regnum Sclavorum, Gothorum sive Polonorum“
@@dittmannrudolfrohr2149 What ? Speak in tea language.
@@dittmannrudolfrohr2149 ave
Great video
After WW1 France wanted Denmark to take back land that was previously lost to Germany, but luckily the land was divided in to districts and referendums was held, and respected, some went to Denmark, most to Germany. Not having territorial disputes with your neighbors, usually makes things more peaceful.
That's why the Danes insisted on a referendum (and Switzerland refused to take the westernmost part of Austria [Vorarlberg]).
Very cool this was covered.
Fair play heh
Looks at 123 years of partitions
@Fabian Kirchgessner germanization
@Fabian Kirchgessner Nah, just all that suppression of Polish culture, in particular in the part occupied by Prussia and Russia, resulted in a lot of damage.
Important people for Germany like Bismarck completely hated Poles, also continuing the old Tartar tradition.
@Fabian Kirchgessner He did though. He had an immense hate towards Catholics and Poles in particular.
I'd have thought you knew your own history.
@Fabian Kirchgessner I've seen explicit and very prejudiced Bismarck's statements about Poles and Catholics.
silesia was not a part of the polsih commonwelath.
Of course, we have been Upper Silesians since the 13 century - before Germany and Poland existed as countries or nations. We are descendants of mainly Saxons who mixed with Chechs and Moravians along the way to Silesia. Ethnically, culturally and linguistically we became a separate group from all other surrounding countries. Polish was never our mother tongue. It was Silesian.
My greatgrandfather died there, thanks for promoting the lesser known history.
The interwar period was filled with lots of little wars all over the globe leading up to a big war
Too nice video with clear explaining
i've got to tell you the history of Silesia is more turbulent than Polish. It's worth mention that Austria part of Upper Silesia was rather Polish or Czech oriented than German orientated. And what is more important that Kindom of Bohemia had shared the longest period with this region.
Great video, thank you!
My grandpas family is from Silesia. I believe they were from Opole or Opplen depending on the language German or Polish. They were mostly Germans but a few were Polish as well.
My mother came from there.She called it Oppeln.
Yes so did my great grandparents.
The French Renault FT tank at 9:00 reminds me of a Dalek.
Gòra świętej Anny you told that very well
Dzięki bardzo.
@@jessealexander2695 Też tak myślałem!
As an outsider, I can't understand why this all needed to happen. 60% voted for reunification with Germany. In a real democracy this would have solved the matter. Period.
I think it all boiled down (again) to politics. The French and Polish nationalists were too harsh and influential while the people just wanted peace and prosperaty.
Are u trying to say the combatants of the notorious german Freikorpses were peaceful, democratic people ? I'm afraid you don't know the nuances. The Germans brought their people from other regions for this plebiscite. The French showed sympathy for the Poles. And what about this? That was their interest. At the same time, the English favored the Germans.
@@cetus4449 O! You misunderstoood me! The Freikorpses were very militant! They almost started a civil war in Germany.
So… If an armed group occupies an area and forces the population to vote a specific way, that’s democratic?
@@hello7522 no, offcource it's not.
Germany and Poland fighting, I think you might be a little early
Germany and Poland fighting has been a thing for a thousand years. A rough neighbourhood.
@@maciejhammer2681 Since selling Silesia to Germans by Casimir the Great there was eternal peace between Poland and Germany (The Empire).
It was Prussia, a former Polish vassal which is nowadays known as "Germany attackig Poland".
Look at Prussia's borders in 1795.
@@krakendragonslayer1909 They sold it to Bohemia, not to Germany!
The beginning and the end of any war is always the most dangerous time.
The ten years following the end of WW I are the most neglected period of the 20th century. All we hear about is Versailles and the Roaring Twenties....European history including the rise of Hitler make a lot more sense when put into proper context.
Nicely informative video.
I'm Silesian the story lives on in the memory of my family.
You forgot few VERY IMPORTANT information... The German owner of the coal and Iron mines payed hunger wages to the Polish workers.
Polish miner earned 1/4 of that what a German miner earned in Ruhle Region...
Germany paid the war reparation with sweat and blood of Polish miners.
That was the main cause of the uprising...
@Fabian Kirchgessner Sag das den Juden, die von deine Vorfahren getötet wurden...
@Fabian Kirchgessner stop crying german you get karma you losed so many terrains hahhaha cry german cry
@Fabian Kirchgessner Forced Germanization and Kulturkampf were not forgotten back then and are not forgotten now. Poles are not Namibians.
@Fabian Kirchgessner because you spelling fake info and propaganda
@Fabian Kirchgessner You still haven't paid $1 trillion in war reparations.
your enot reliable enough-but nice job. Freikorps was a formation of ww1 vets and the Poles was lack of ammo (weapons of many types and ammo of many types and scarce ), war experience ,artillery and supplies . first battle of Annaberg was a polish defeat , second battle-31 05 1921- after oficial truce in Silesia -was Freikorpss defeat ( it could be explain by gaining fight experience by the insurgents)
19:23 They even got the help of force ghosts to help them
True lol
Suddenly the words "If you take me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." got a bad ring to it...
Great video
Wow. Da komme ich her. Zu einem Viertel. Jetzt bin ich Deutscher. Wegen dem 2.Weltkrieg. Interessant mal etwas von seiner eigenen Geschichte zu hören.
Speak English
@@erikkr.r.m7380 Lern Deutsch.
@@erikkr.r.m7380 no
Now nearly forgotten "episode" of history. But in those days that was first page news in Europe.
Poland never officially supported the insurgents. And after the annexation to Poland Silesia retained autonomy. And a small correction Silesian not Polish insurgents.
just "offcially" All officers were from Poland and huge percent of soliders too (from Krakow, Podhale, Lodz, Lwow etc) and Poland took away the autonomy from Poland and put Korfanty in jail
@@kamil5836 Look at all Silesian uprising list, that's not true at all. Most of soldiers were from Katowice, Rybik and Chorzów
@@LeMiemo-shay That could be seen if you look up the names. Most of them are germanized or typical for Silesians like Stenzel. Only some of the officers joined from other parts, but mostly from Wielkopolska after their uprising against the germans.