Retired auto mechanic here. If one observes the hot riveted structure of a massive bridge built during the heyday of American construction, one will see that there is considerable rust on the outside. Where the massive steel plates are held fast together by the rivets, there is no deformation of the plates. Where the spacing of the rivets is further apart, the steel plates show a bending deformation. This is because as steel oxidizes, the resulting rust exerts a force of expansion, tons of force per square inch. Where the steel plate is strong enough, and the rivets are sufficiently close enough, the rust proceeds and expands until the physical strength resists expansion, stopping further rust. Observing this, I conclude that the steel shaft rust expanded inside the cast part making removal difficult. I my opinion the heat applied to the cast part caused it to become slightly larger which was the key to its removal. The oil and wax certainly helped. Oily greasy steel seems to not rust.
In all my years of heavy engineering I’ve never heard of beeswax being used like this. Tip from a tool & die maker, eh?Makes perfect sense, as the hub expands on the shaft it goes in, doesn’t burn off & provides a lubricated surfaces. Once hub moves its away. I would have stood all that in diesel & old sump oil for a couple of weeks & got on with something else.🙂 That method though never failed as diesel kills rust & the old oil gets in everywhere. Glad you’ve got a record on film of how it all came apart. Good move, good vid, thank you.
I am an old heavy machinery mechanic, ( fix 'em where they fall, too big to go to the shop). Any lube which does not break down with heat works. A cheap pneumatic hammer is a recommended tool, not a good hard hitting one, a 600-1000 BPM "buzz gun". Drill a piece of brass to make a soft tip, even hammering in the wrong direction while pulling can help move stubborn parts.
The video becomes his instruction manual. That’s one reason to show the parts the way he does as he takes them off. I’m sure the old rusty shafts have enough witness marks to show position and spacing when it all goes together but it’s incredible just the same that it will go back together and function as good as new when it’s done.
I rebuilt a truck transmission, once. The boss asked me what I needed. Everyone to stay out of the shop was my answer. No books, no drawings, no specs. Just put the parts in specific locations and orientations, and you are good to go. I’ve done enough old carburetors, I just let the parts fall onto my carb rag, and just put it back together. Rebuilt the carb on my youngest son’s car with him, a 1984 Thunderbird. I watched his eyes as the parts were all falling out. The expressions were PRICELESS!!!
@@dangeary2134 Dont blame him hes a good boy. Hes just a victim of the throwaway Society. I bought a Shark Mop fool me. Its held together with security screws some reverse pitted 7 star arrangement and the tool to unscrew them is 40 bucks whilst the mop cost 100. Planned obsolescence is hard to beat.
I've used wax. I'm not convinced of its efficacy. I've been a huge fan of Kroil for many years. Recently I saw some stuff (Superzilla) advertised on TV that was supposed to be the end all, be all. On a whim I bought some. For a lot of things it truly is fantastic. Others, it's about the same as anything else. What convinced me to keep it around was removing a 35 year old Turbocharger and exhaust manifold of a diesel engine. Sprayed it on and left it sit overnight. Stuff flowed everywhere. A coating over all the iron. I dismantled it all without a single broken bolt or stud.
I keep hearing people refer to "oil holes" most places where steel shafts run in cast iron bushings were intended to be greased. Most early grease guns were a simple cylinder with a piston and a conical nose. Oil and field dirt made grinding compound. Up until the 40's formulas were around for making "machine grease" at home from tallow, lard, and pine rosin, (also paraffin, bee's wax, tar, et cetera). the grease may not have been the best lubricant, but it excluded the abrasive dirt.
when we tore down the gangs on breaking disics we threw them into a tank of water and let them soak a few days they come right apart. as well as getting the Mulboards off Dozer blades we used to drop the blade into water and left them to soak. stuff like the manure spreader is same sorta therory, is mud like rust and water dirt and air makes rust and water returns it back to softer compounds. as say worked well for us just settin this out there
I restored a 1941 truck that had lots of rusty parts. I tried wax, too, but didn't have much luck with it. Best thing was heat, applied to the outer part. I think it expands the outer part, while the inner part doesn't expand so much. That expansion opens the joint and breaks the rust free.
We had an old Case spreader. Ground drive with 2 levers. One for the beaters and one for the apron chain. The drive mechanism housing was covered with so much 💩 that I don't ever recall seeing the gear setup. That was over a period of 13 years working on the farm as a boy.
I am truely going to love watching you put this wagon back together as it has been amazing to watching you dismantle it keep up the good work and thank you
Enjoyed the wagons and coaches, but very interested in seeing you restore the manure spreader. I bet there are other old implements that could use your skills and knowledge, Maybe we will see some of those.
During my time as a airplane builder and mechanic, I have come across some stubborn fasteners. I found the easiest way to get them out was to use a 3X or 4X rivet gun. Very rapid blows with a flat set, have never had any fastener fail to come out. Don't know which would be noisier, I vote for the gun to win the noise contest.
I’m amazed at how you remember where all the parts came from and how they all go back together. Yankee know how and ingenuity are still alive in America, thank God! Great videos.
I have always enjoyed your videos Dave regardless of the subject, it's all learning, but one thing I would have done that you don't do (or seem not to do) is start using the releasing/penetrating oils etc much sooner, they could be soaking for weeks once in the shop prior to you starting to dismantling them, I look forward with pleasure to you re-mantling it all on this one, it's so interesting all the whirring bits and pieces.
Isn’t it funny how your mind works. Or doesn’t. I was thinking “I hope he’s taking pictures of where all the parts go”. Then I realised it’s all on video. 😂. Fascinating to watch. 👍
Since this is actually YOUR manure spreader, I sure hope we get to see it run when its all fixed up! If you don't want to actually spread manure with it, maybe you can use chopped straw or something as a standin so it has something to throw? 🤔🤔🤔
My favorite penetrating fluid is a heavy mix of oxygen with smidge of acetylene. Works every time! 🤣 Personally, I don't believe anything really penetrates parts that are rusted together, except heat...and lots of it. Always enjoy following along, Dave. Be well!
I believe the vibrations of impacts get in there too. But yeah once it's locked up solid nothing but heat and mechanical shocks are going to get through the solid material. At that point it's a hermetic seal. The only attacks that are effective then work at the atomic level.
I like the fact that you are taking the time to sandblast as you disassemble. The pictures and video will also be a help when it comes time to put back together.
Given your experience of securing steel tires, perhaps you could heat the outer piece (cog, gear, etc.) while cooling the inner pieces (rod, axle, etc) with liquid nitrogen. There is a guy Criss from Cutting Edge Engineering Australia (RUclips) who soaks steel bearings in liquid nitrogen to shrink them for an interference fit. As for this video, I speculate the heat helped more than the wax by stressing the rust through the heat expansion action. Meanwhile, liquid nitrogen may not be available at the Joliet Hardware Store. More than anything, Thanks for sharing.
My dad applied high temp heat to loosen parts, mainly bolts and nuts. He said the Navy taught that to him. Rust is mainly hydrated iron oxide and extreme heating makes it lose its water content. I've always thought this was your theory too. I liked this video. 👍👍👍
@@1pcfred Burning iron oxide seems questionable. Possibly a reducing flame would actually reduce the iron oxide to iron, which would reduce the bulk of the iron oxide and assist in clearing the joint.
@@harrymoyes5069 iron oxide has the reducer in it already. The oxygen. So when heated it has an affinity to burn. I've torched plenty of brown rusty metal and ended up with clean gray metal. What's your explanation for how that happens?
How about the simple rule heat expands, cold contracts? Heating up the female component creates a small tolerance which allows less resistance to slide/rotate.
@@IraFuse_422 with the parts together it is impossible to heat just one. But they're going to expand at different rates which causes beneficial thermal stress. You can certainly try to heat the outer part more than the inner one too. Everyone does. Beyond expansion heat can do something else in this instance too. Enough heat can convert rust. Which does help. Now it can be argued what actually got the parts apart. But I don't think it really matters. All that does matter is they came apart. Nothing is as effective as heat either. The smoke wrench always works. I've never had it fail on me.
Used bees wax on cutting tools, lathe bits, and drills for 50 years. Greatly extends tool life. Had a 1 inch thick junk block of bees wax for 45 years next to the vise. Run the hack saw several times across the wax during a cut. Significantly cuts the work. (Real men use a hack saw.) :-) Never expected it to last 45 years. Bees wax works great on metal cutting band saw but is a giant mess to clean up. Blade runs cool, straight, and stays sharp. But bees wax builds up on the drive and guide wheels. I put up with cleaning because no oil drips, smoke, straight cuts, and long life blades. Not good for tapping holes. Holds chips and cannot stand the high pressures. Carburizes the steel surface and turns to smoke. Fantastic for low speed, low pressure cutting. Last month, started pricing another 15 pounds for the next 50 years.
Rust is an amazing fastener when it swells up inside a joint. I have a 66 c10 and there's 2 U bolts holding the rear onto the trailing arms. The rust inside the trailing arms around those U bolts was so strong I could've driven that truck around without the nuts on the U bolts confidently
Nice to have the videos for when it is time to put everything back together. Sure beats back in the day, like us old boys say, when we had a stack of polaroids to reference.
An alternative method to free rusted parts is to freeze the outer part with dry ice. The rapid freezing crushes the rust particles allowing the pieces to be separated. Downside to this method is dry ice isn't always readily available,
Hey I seen a Wyoming PBS show on a guy named Jack Mease, Miniaturist. He made a wagon and chuck box, anvil with a few other things. Thought you might enjoy watching cause all I thought about was you channel. Keep up the videos as you are on my short list of you tube creators.
I'm very happy to see that it worked! I know my old Meister (German for master or senior engineer) would have been as proud to watch this video as I was!
I was one that asked if you had ever used wax. I’ve seen it used before but never thought about the difference of how it wicks in compared to a petroleum based product. I’m glad you tried it for us Dave and explained your experience about it to us.
@@dwightl5863 Thanks Captain Obvious. I believe my comment states that “I was one that asked” not THE one that asked but thanks for participating. Here’s your 🏅
I also watch some machining channels and for disassembly such as you did some difficult cases moderate heat was applied and then let cool up to seven or eight times. Apparently this caused minute movements in the interface and eventually it comes free. The wax likely does help. Any sort of lubricant would be drawn in by the thermal gradient and by capillary action. A couple of points you do, to heat the entire piece and not just the stuck part to prevent cracking of the cast iron, and to use a relatively soft punch and a regular hammer. I've seen personally a big piece shattered by heating just the hub and then belting it with a sledge. Quite exciting to watch from a safe distance.
I have done a lot of mechanicing over the years, lots of shafts, pulleys, gears, bearings, impellers. I have to say I am amazed how EASY some of these parts have come apart for you considering how long they have been assembled and sitting in the weather. Maybe its the result of the cast steel instead of forged steel in more modern equipment? Or maybe the rust just knows you are going to win.
i think is the combination of both. Heat opens the gap , and brakes down the corrosion a little by getting out the moisture allowing it to move a little. The Wax gets in a uses capillary action to fill the gap. The ongoing movements are aided by the wax preventing it from picking up again on the shaft. That and it being cast iron being somewhat porous having the wax get into the pours adds to the lubricity of the iron making it less likely to stick again. A bit like self lubricating bearing material. You can and I have used wax in the past in place of commercial never seize on long term assemblies that were exposed to sea water and air. It worked just as well as the never seize/copper coat that I had at the time.
When I was a kid in the 60’s there was an old wagon sitting at the edge of town on a vacant lot-the folks used to stop & let us play on it (pretending to be cowboys) Always wanted to try & build one-or at least learn about them. Thanks for your videos!
14:39 i use paraffin wax (the small pellets you get when you make candles) and i haven't been failed by it so far. Learnt this trick from grandpa whenever we had to loosen up the big nuts on the bigger combines. Sometimes those were stuck on something fierce and at 20mm back in the day not much could touch that other than the force multiplier which we couldn't use because it could break the over studs (i'm having a brain moment, can't remember what they're called. The studs that are also nuts four double wheels). So out came the paraffin. Warmed up with a small torch and you'd just drop three or four pellets, on the after glow and out they came. Heat and wax play equal roles. If you had too little heat, it wouldn't even budge, you could stuff a whole bag. My personal proof that it indeed worked was the fact that whenever it would come out, the wax would be all the way down to the bottom of the threads, way past the area where i'd put it. But only for paraffin, normal wax doesn't work, it's too thick. That said, one thing should be noted. Threads are never designed to be water tight, not even those for specific applications dealing with liquids. You always rely on a gasket, because the way threads are made, there's always a gap. It's that gap that facilitates the paraffin to wick in. On a shaft... that's not the same. Rust is far more dense in that situation and there's already little space (by design). So there's that.
I think it was a combination of wax as a lube / consolidator of rust, high temp. heat and the fact you finally sat on the axle keeping it somewhat stationary allowing more force applied to sprocket. I’m pleased that you are restoring this particular wagon. I love it simple; yet complex, mechanics. 👍
Probably the most valuable thing about your videos is that you have a good record of how things came apart, which makes it much easier to put back together!!
I appreciate the time laps.. cause what took you 20 min. Would have taken me 20 days ! And the old wax trick..wonder who the first person to ever try that and discover that it works.Your a boss , thanks for sharing 🇺🇲 merica
I like the way you take parts off and when they're put on the table they're sandblasted. It never works like in my shop...I'm waiting to see the trade secret for that method...looks like a time saver...
Until the torch heats the components to an id and od respectively, than allows the lubricant to enter that space differential, it's a stand-off. The choice of the wax was a bonus as it has to property to drawn to heat, as you point out. Perfect pair..
I think your intuition makes sense. Wax, paraffin, and penetrating oil surely help sliding the part out after it gets unstuck, but I don't see how they could help getting the part unstuck in the first place -- unless one uses an acid fluid that can actually dissolve the rust. Heating to red hot, on the other hand, should help get the parts unstuck. Common rust is mostly iron oxide-hydroxide, FeO(OH). If heated to red hot, it should lose water and oxygen and turn into other oxides ("scale") such as Fe3O4, FeO, Fe2O3. This conversion should cause the rust to shrink, because some of the mass is lost and these oxides are denser than rust. It should also break the rust crystals into a powder.
@@farmerbill6855 Expansion helps too, but it is not that much. If the axle too gets hot, the gap will hardly open up. As for wax or penetrating oil, it certainly helps sliding after the part gets unstuck, but I don't see how it could soften the solid rust that is holding the parts together, even if the rust gets soaked in it.
@@JorgeStolfi My understanding is this; Since the rust transfer heat slower than iron, there's an insulation gap between the axle and the boss. In other words, the boss heats up faster, and expands faster than the axle in the beginning. Also take in consideration the time it takes for the heat to travel through the parts. This helps loosen the rust fixation between the parts. Added wax or oil can penetrate this crack (by capilary effect?) , and provide some lubrication between the parts.
@@sidekickbob7227 Hm, I smell a journal paper on this problem, maybe even a thesis topic and research grant... If only I was in Mechanical Engineering... I just stumbled on this video ruclips.net/video/AWOaeGy_HnA/видео.html The guys fumble to loosen some stuck bolts, it is great comedy. But at one point they torch *the bolt* rather than the flange, and try to unscrew it while still red hot -- and it *may* have worked, against expectations. Could it be?
Thanks for sharing with us Dave, going back and using all the lubricants and tools of the day was interesting and so many of them are still being used today and work just as well. Using the old parts from what is left and fabricating replacement parts to look original is the finest history related material to show the past and where we have come from. This is another awesome ride in the making. Fred.
I have heard of using wax when installing screws in hardwoods and also for when cutting aluminum with a chop saw but never heard of it being used to remove rusted metal parts. Learned something new today. Thank you for the knowledge.
When I was a little boy we were told that to lubricate wood screws one would use soap my Granddaddy taught me that one. Wax would work just as well. I figured that the heat would draw the wax up into those pieces, and of course the last piece took a little while but one has to have patience in disassembly to avoid damaging parts and spending more time repairing them. Isn't it amazing how that agricultural equipment can be so complicated from a mechanical standpoint?
Amazing how easily it comes apart (for some values of easily!) after sitting idle in the weather for mumblety-mumble years. Yeah, with that much iron in good shape, well worth the rebuild. We gotta see it in action. I use WD40 "Specialist" on stuck bolts... here is how good it is. Kennel bolts the dogs had been peeing on for 11 years... so stuck you'd about break a wrench on them. Regular penetrating oil got nowhere. Sprayed with this silicone Specialist stuff, left overnight, came right loose. Same with bolts that had been underground for almost two years. Had to get 'em loose in winter no less. I also use it to coat the snow shovel so the wet stuff doesn't stick. :)
I suspect that cast iron weathers much better than steel, but I don't know why. I've disassembled things made of cast iron (i.e., ground contact farm implements) that probably would have been just one large lump of rust if they were steel.
As an engineering nerd, it's fascinating to see it dismantled - doubly so, as if you say, somebody sat down to design the simplest machine to do the job required of it. K.I.S.S. is all too readily forgotten when designing something, and the poor soul out in the field (actually, in this case) ends up with a devil of a job keeping it maintained!
There were no computers...... and very few other designs to compare to. I knew the gentleman that created the prototype hydrostatic driven Cub Cadet and Wheelhorse garden tractors. As Charlie said.... first thing he needed was a garden tractor. He had to go back to school to learn mechanical engineering. He was a hydraulics engineer. 😊
Excellent work, as ever, Sir. I've been following along for a couple years now -- and I finally figured out what's missing: a'int no cussin'! Either you don't, or is it carefully edited out? I could >never< make it through some of your difficulties without a few choice words.
I like that your drift/punch is the stem off an OS&Y valve. 9:34 The little groove seen is there for a valve tamper switch which indicates that it was likely used in a fire sprinkler system.
I have used wax several times to get the axle flanges off of John Deere garden tractors along with a torch and a puller. Some guys saw them and split them but JD wants like $150 each now. Years ago a friend said his mechanic used heat and wax to remove the exhaust manifold bolts from 460 and 390 Fords.
So, I thought why haven't Dave sprayed all the nuts, bolts and shafts in the beginning with penetrating oil. Here in South Africa we would've done it. But then I reminded myself that Merican iron quality was just better.
You're a braver man than I, all that pounding on irreplaceable cast parts. I surly would have cracked something, brass drift and all. Good job. Best regards from Indiana.
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Never in a million years did I ever think I'd be excited to see a manure spreader being restored!
They’re pretty twice in their lives; when new and when junked (restored in this instance).
I was just happy to have the last tool of that sort disappear into the dust cloud behind me!
I get far more excited by seeing one being restored than one full of chicken poop being used.
@@Martin52863 I'm loving the process. Hope it all works out.
I'd love to pull up my chair and just watch him work all day. I want a front row seat. Maybe I could help him out if needed
So nice that your parts automatically get sandblasted on the walk to your saw. Wish my rough lumber would get cleaned up on that walk, too.
I am impressed by the use of that highly sensitive clamping device at 18:12, which is manufactured locally, I believe.
Lol
Congratulations to you both on getting to 200,000 subscribers. All the best for 2024.
NZL
Thank you.
Dave , the main thing is you got it apart with no broken parts , very good .
Retired auto mechanic here. If one observes the hot riveted structure of a massive bridge built during the heyday of American construction, one will see that there is considerable rust on the outside. Where the massive steel plates are held fast together by the rivets, there is no deformation of the plates. Where the spacing of the rivets is further apart, the steel plates show a bending deformation. This is because as steel oxidizes, the resulting rust exerts a force of expansion, tons of force per square inch. Where the steel plate is strong enough, and the rivets are sufficiently close enough, the rust proceeds and expands until the physical strength resists expansion, stopping further rust. Observing this, I conclude that the steel shaft rust expanded inside the cast part making removal difficult. I my opinion the heat applied to the cast part caused it to become slightly larger which was the key to its removal. The oil and wax certainly helped. Oily greasy steel seems to not rust.
How many broke into a satisfied smile when that spider broke loose!!! So fine!!!
Thank you for uploading such a nice episodes of this I call it "wonderful" machine. God bless you.
Out of all the wagons you have built, this is the one I can't wait to see working again.
Hammering like you did helped tremendously.
In all my years of heavy engineering I’ve never heard of beeswax being used like this. Tip from a tool & die maker, eh?Makes perfect sense, as the hub expands on the shaft it goes in, doesn’t burn off & provides a lubricated surfaces. Once hub moves its away.
I would have stood all that in diesel & old sump oil for a couple of weeks & got on with something else.🙂
That method though never failed as diesel kills rust & the old oil gets in everywhere.
Glad you’ve got a record on film of how it all came apart.
Good move, good vid, thank you.
I am an old heavy machinery mechanic, ( fix 'em where they fall, too big to go to the shop). Any lube which does not break down with heat works. A cheap pneumatic hammer is a recommended tool, not a good hard hitting one, a 600-1000 BPM "buzz gun". Drill a piece of brass to make a soft tip, even hammering in the wrong direction while pulling can help move stubborn parts.
This reminds me of what the narrow gauge railroad people do; take away all the old iron and install all new wood! TM long time viewer
The fact that he knows how to rebuild it and put it all back together without instructions is just incredible.
just do the video backwards to see how parts go. Did not notice if he made measurements for spacing parts on shaft length.
The video becomes his instruction manual. That’s one reason to show the parts the way he does as he takes them off.
I’m sure the old rusty shafts have enough witness marks to show position and spacing when it all goes together but it’s incredible just the same that it will go back together and function as good as new when it’s done.
I rebuilt a truck transmission, once.
The boss asked me what I needed.
Everyone to stay out of the shop was my answer.
No books, no drawings, no specs.
Just put the parts in specific locations and orientations, and you are good to go.
I’ve done enough old carburetors, I just let the parts fall onto my carb rag, and just put it back together.
Rebuilt the carb on my youngest son’s car with him, a 1984 Thunderbird.
I watched his eyes as the parts were all falling out.
The expressions were PRICELESS!!!
@@dangeary2134 Dont blame him hes a good boy. Hes just a victim of the throwaway Society. I bought a Shark Mop fool me. Its held together with security screws some reverse pitted 7 star arrangement and the tool to unscrew them is 40 bucks whilst the mop cost 100. Planned obsolescence is hard to beat.
It's a farmer thing.
Well Dave ya taught me something again, I knew you were a fella worth watching. Anticipating the next step already.
The most amazing thing to me is that Dave will actually be able to reassemble this jigsaw puzzle.
I've used wax. I'm not convinced of its efficacy. I've been a huge fan of Kroil for many years. Recently I saw some stuff (Superzilla) advertised on TV that was supposed to be the end all, be all. On a whim I bought some. For a lot of things it truly is fantastic. Others, it's about the same as anything else. What convinced me to keep it around was removing a 35 year old Turbocharger and exhaust manifold of a diesel engine. Sprayed it on and left it sit overnight. Stuff flowed everywhere. A coating over all the iron. I dismantled it all without a single broken bolt or stud.
If it's up for a vote, I vote "it's the Heat" more than any type lube that best loosens rusty parts.
It is very impressive how Dave restores these old wagons, but why don't his jeans have patches on the knees?
Another episode of the "master" at work! God Bless to you and Mrs. Engels.
I think immobilizing the bar helped the most. Thank you for bringing us along! 😊
I would say we don't give our forefathers enough credit. Incredible with the tools they had to work with back then.
I can't believe I'm watching the dismantling of a manure spreader. When's the next video?
Dave's videos are posted Tuedays and Fridays at 3 pm MST.
I agree that heat is the main reason. Heat (thermal expansion) breaks the rust formation that locks the joints. Interesting about beeswax.
A really amazing piece of design work!
Dr Dave experimentations to enlighten and educate the viewers and followers. Two thumbs up.
I keep hearing people refer to "oil holes" most places where steel shafts run in cast iron bushings were intended to be greased. Most early grease guns were a simple cylinder with a piston and a conical nose. Oil and field dirt made grinding compound. Up until the 40's formulas were around for making "machine grease" at home from tallow, lard, and pine rosin, (also paraffin, bee's wax, tar, et cetera). the grease may not have been the best lubricant, but it excluded the abrasive dirt.
When you're drag racing you oil the bearings for less friction. Dave is hot rodding this wagon!
Perseverance is the key. Heat helps too.
A tried & true method on stubborn rusted cast parts.
Thanks for sharing !!!!
when we tore down the gangs on breaking disics we threw them into a tank of water and let them soak a few days they come right apart. as well as getting the Mulboards off Dozer blades we used to drop the blade into water and left them to soak. stuff like the manure spreader is same sorta therory, is mud like rust and water dirt and air makes rust and water returns it back to softer compounds. as say worked well for us just settin this out there
Wow! By the time you take a part off and put it down it's magicaly clean and rust free. Lol 😂 😅😂😅😊 The power of editing. Lol 😂
I restored a 1941 truck that had lots of rusty parts. I tried wax, too, but didn't have much luck with it. Best thing was heat, applied to the outer part. I think it expands the outer part, while the inner part doesn't expand so much. That expansion opens the joint and breaks the rust free.
We had an old Case spreader. Ground drive with 2 levers. One for the beaters and one for the apron chain. The drive mechanism housing was covered with so much 💩 that I don't ever recall seeing the gear setup. That was over a period of 13 years working on the farm as a boy.
I am truely going to love watching you put this wagon back together as it has been amazing to watching you dismantle it keep up the good work and thank you
Enjoyed the wagons and coaches, but very interested in seeing you restore the manure spreader. I bet there are other old implements that could use your skills and knowledge, Maybe we will see some of those.
During my time as a airplane builder and mechanic, I have come across some stubborn fasteners. I found the easiest way to get them out was to use a 3X or 4X rivet gun. Very rapid blows with a flat set, have never had any fastener fail to come out. Don't know which would be noisier, I vote for the gun to win the noise contest.
My all time favorite is the Chicago pneumatic model 717,you can tickle the trigger so slow you can count the blows it is a brute!
My all time favorite is the Chicago pneumatic model 717,you can tickle the trigger so slow you can count the blows it is a brute!
My all time favorite is the Chicago pneumatic model 717,you can tickle the trigger so slow you can count the blows it is a brute!
My all time favorite is the Chicago pneumatic model 717,you can tickle the trigger so slow you can count the blows it is a brute!
My all time favorite is the Chicago pneumatic model 717,you can tickle the trigger so slow you can count the blows it is a brute!
I do enjoy the commentary,best part of the videos.Time lapse is neat, though a little to fast.
As much as I enjoyed watching you be tough and gentle at the same time the Blue grass music helped me.
Thanks Really coming along.
I’m amazed at how you remember where all the parts came from and how they all go back together. Yankee know how and ingenuity are still alive in America, thank God! Great videos.
I have always enjoyed your videos Dave regardless of the subject, it's all learning, but one thing I would have done that you don't do (or seem not to do) is start using the releasing/penetrating oils etc much sooner, they could be soaking for weeks once in the shop prior to you starting to dismantling them, I look forward with pleasure to you re-mantling it all on this one, it's so interesting all the whirring bits and pieces.
Isn’t it funny how your mind works. Or doesn’t. I was thinking “I hope he’s taking pictures of where all the parts go”. Then I realised it’s all on video. 😂. Fascinating to watch. 👍
So interesting! The more it’s disassembled the more complex I see this machine is.
Since this is actually YOUR manure spreader, I sure hope we get to see it run when its all fixed up! If you don't want to actually spread manure with it, maybe you can use chopped straw or something as a standin so it has something to throw? 🤔🤔🤔
I'm amazed how complex the mechanics on that wagon are.
This wagon was built after the Wright Brothers flew. Not long after but a couple of years.
My favorite penetrating fluid is a heavy mix of oxygen with smidge of acetylene. Works every time! 🤣 Personally, I don't believe anything really penetrates parts that are rusted together, except heat...and lots of it. Always enjoy following along, Dave. Be well!
I believe the vibrations of impacts get in there too. But yeah once it's locked up solid nothing but heat and mechanical shocks are going to get through the solid material. At that point it's a hermetic seal. The only attacks that are effective then work at the atomic level.
@@1pcfred Agreed! I use an air impact, if available.
@@Hey_Its_That_Guy me too. Air power!
one thing I would like to see rebuilt is a reaper binder maybe when you've finished the
I like the fact that you are taking the time to sandblast as you disassemble. The pictures and video will also be a help when it comes time to put back together.
I'm amazed that you remember where all these pieces go when you put it back together. I love your videos.
Given your experience of securing steel tires, perhaps you could heat the outer piece (cog, gear, etc.) while cooling the inner pieces (rod, axle, etc) with liquid nitrogen. There is a guy Criss from Cutting Edge Engineering Australia (RUclips) who soaks steel bearings in liquid nitrogen to shrink them for an interference fit. As for this video, I speculate the heat helped more than the wax by stressing the rust through the heat expansion action. Meanwhile, liquid nitrogen may not be available at the Joliet Hardware Store. More than anything, Thanks for sharing.
Watch that channel also. Get a kick when he starts with the Banana measurements.
Well it seems wax does help, especially bee's wax. I learned something today. Thank you!
My dad applied high temp heat to loosen parts, mainly bolts and nuts. He said the Navy taught that to him. Rust is mainly hydrated iron oxide and extreme heating makes it lose its water content. I've always thought this was your theory too. I liked this video. 👍👍👍
You heat rust up enough it'll lose more than just water content. It'll completely burn away.
@@1pcfred Burning iron oxide seems questionable. Possibly a reducing flame would actually reduce the iron oxide to iron, which would reduce the bulk of the iron oxide and assist in clearing the joint.
@@harrymoyes5069 iron oxide has the reducer in it already. The oxygen. So when heated it has an affinity to burn. I've torched plenty of brown rusty metal and ended up with clean gray metal. What's your explanation for how that happens?
How about the simple rule heat expands, cold contracts? Heating up the female component creates a small tolerance which allows less resistance to slide/rotate.
@@IraFuse_422 with the parts together it is impossible to heat just one. But they're going to expand at different rates which causes beneficial thermal stress. You can certainly try to heat the outer part more than the inner one too. Everyone does. Beyond expansion heat can do something else in this instance too. Enough heat can convert rust. Which does help. Now it can be argued what actually got the parts apart. But I don't think it really matters. All that does matter is they came apart. Nothing is as effective as heat either. The smoke wrench always works. I've never had it fail on me.
Good show Dave i always learn something new.
Boy, who would have thought that much ingenuity went into making a manure spreader
As a power plant mechanic we used bees wax on frozen and galled threads and fits. Love this project.
Glad you saved this
Used bees wax on cutting tools, lathe bits, and drills for 50 years. Greatly extends tool life. Had a 1 inch thick junk block of bees wax for 45 years next to the vise. Run the hack saw several times across the wax during a cut. Significantly cuts the work. (Real men use a hack saw.) :-) Never expected it to last 45 years. Bees wax works great on metal cutting band saw but is a giant mess to clean up. Blade runs cool, straight, and stays sharp. But bees wax builds up on the drive and guide wheels. I put up with cleaning because no oil drips, smoke, straight cuts, and long life blades.
Not good for tapping holes. Holds chips and cannot stand the high pressures. Carburizes the steel surface and turns to smoke.
Fantastic for low speed, low pressure cutting. Last month, started pricing another 15 pounds for the next 50 years.
I really like this build. Great work.
Rust is an amazing fastener when it swells up inside a joint. I have a 66 c10 and there's 2 U bolts holding the rear onto the trailing arms. The rust inside the trailing arms around those U bolts was so strong I could've driven that truck around without the nuts on the U bolts confidently
My opinion is both must work together as one team, is always team work is better.
I have been watching you years, thanks so much 😊, I am working on a 1980 mobile home and learned tricks that might interest you.
Nice to have the videos for when it is time to put everything back together. Sure beats back in the day, like us old boys say, when we had a stack of polaroids to reference.
I believe the repeated number of heats is a factor as well as the amount of heat. Heating and cooling cycles is movement by itself.
I guess it is nice always to have the video of your taking it apart! Pretty nicely built and designed for something back then. Nice castings!
An alternative method to free rusted parts is to freeze the outer part with dry ice. The rapid freezing crushes the rust particles allowing the pieces to be separated.
Downside to this method is dry ice isn't always readily available,
Hey I seen a Wyoming PBS show on a guy named Jack Mease, Miniaturist.
He made a wagon and chuck box, anvil with a few other things.
Thought you might enjoy watching cause all I thought about was you channel.
Keep up the videos as you are on my short list of you tube creators.
Slowly but surely, it's coming apart. Nice!
I'm very happy to see that it worked! I know my old Meister (German for master or senior engineer) would have been as proud to watch this video as I was!
I was one that asked if you had ever used wax. I’ve seen it used before but never thought about the difference of how it wicks in compared to a petroleum based product.
I’m glad you tried it for us Dave and explained your experience about it to us.
You asked as did dozens of others.
@@dwightl5863
Thanks Captain Obvious.
I believe my comment states that “I was one that asked” not THE one that asked but thanks for participating. Here’s your 🏅
I also watch some machining channels and for disassembly such as you did some difficult cases moderate heat was applied and then let cool up to seven or eight times. Apparently this caused minute movements in the interface and eventually it comes free. The wax likely does help. Any sort of lubricant would be drawn in by the thermal gradient and by capillary action. A couple of points you do, to heat the entire piece and not just the stuck part to prevent cracking of the cast iron, and to use a relatively soft punch and a regular hammer. I've seen personally a big piece shattered by heating just the hub and then belting it with a sledge. Quite exciting to watch from a safe distance.
I have done a lot of mechanicing over the years, lots of shafts, pulleys, gears, bearings, impellers. I have to say I am amazed how EASY some of these parts have come apart for you considering how long they have been assembled and sitting in the weather. Maybe its the result of the cast steel instead of forged steel in more modern equipment? Or maybe the rust just knows you are going to win.
i think is the combination of both. Heat opens the gap , and brakes down the corrosion a little by getting out the moisture allowing it to move a little. The Wax gets in a uses capillary action to fill the gap. The ongoing movements are aided by the wax preventing it from picking up again on the shaft. That and it being cast iron being somewhat porous having the wax get into the pours adds to the lubricity of the iron making it less likely to stick again. A bit like self lubricating bearing material. You can and I have used wax in the past in place of commercial never seize on long term assemblies that were exposed to sea water and air. It worked just as well as the never seize/copper coat that I had at the time.
you did a good job nothing broken well done thanks for a great video again looking forward to the next
I know you said it wasa simple machine, but there are still so many parts!
When I was a kid in the 60’s there was an old wagon sitting at the edge of town on a vacant lot-the folks used to stop & let us play on it (pretending to be cowboys)
Always wanted to try & build one-or at least learn about them.
Thanks for your videos!
Oh I see it getting used once in a while, if anything flinging old hay across the pasture
14:39 i use paraffin wax (the small pellets you get when you make candles) and i haven't been failed by it so far. Learnt this trick from grandpa whenever we had to loosen up the big nuts on the bigger combines. Sometimes those were stuck on something fierce and at 20mm back in the day not much could touch that other than the force multiplier which we couldn't use because it could break the over studs (i'm having a brain moment, can't remember what they're called. The studs that are also nuts four double wheels). So out came the paraffin. Warmed up with a small torch and you'd just drop three or four pellets, on the after glow and out they came. Heat and wax play equal roles. If you had too little heat, it wouldn't even budge, you could stuff a whole bag. My personal proof that it indeed worked was the fact that whenever it would come out, the wax would be all the way down to the bottom of the threads, way past the area where i'd put it. But only for paraffin, normal wax doesn't work, it's too thick.
That said, one thing should be noted. Threads are never designed to be water tight, not even those for specific applications dealing with liquids. You always rely on a gasket, because the way threads are made, there's always a gap. It's that gap that facilitates the paraffin to wick in. On a shaft... that's not the same. Rust is far more dense in that situation and there's already little space (by design). So there's that.
It came apart!!! Lots of heat, wax, penetrating oil Elbow grease, and perseverance! Looks like no damaged parts, either! BONUS!!!!
Do you ever have to watch your own videos to put this stuff back together?
I am truly in awe
I think it was a combination of wax as a lube / consolidator of rust, high temp. heat and the fact you finally sat on the axle keeping it somewhat stationary allowing more force applied to sprocket.
I’m pleased that you are restoring this particular wagon. I love it simple; yet complex, mechanics. 👍
Thought he was not butting it up against anything for fear of busting that casting ..I know i would have been
Probably the most valuable thing about your videos is that you have a good record of how things came apart, which makes it much easier to put back together!!
I appreciate the time laps.. cause what took you 20 min. Would have taken me 20 days ! And the old wax trick..wonder who the first person to ever try that and discover that it works.Your a boss , thanks for sharing 🇺🇲 merica
Enjoy your videos and your ability to turn sows ears into silk purses. Hopng you will make, at least, one more video than I am around to watch!
I like the way you take parts off and when they're put on the table they're sandblasted. It never works like in my shop...I'm waiting to see the trade secret for that method...looks like a time saver...
I hope you demonstrate this spreader when you get it done have no idea how it works but I love to watch u work 👍
Until the torch heats the components to an id and od respectively, than allows the lubricant to enter that space differential, it's a stand-off. The choice of the wax was a bonus as it has to property to drawn to heat, as you point out. Perfect pair..
I think your intuition makes sense. Wax, paraffin, and penetrating oil surely help sliding the part out after it gets unstuck, but I don't see how they could help getting the part unstuck in the first place -- unless one uses an acid fluid that can actually dissolve the rust. Heating to red hot, on the other hand, should help get the parts unstuck. Common rust is mostly iron oxide-hydroxide, FeO(OH). If heated to red hot, it should lose water and oxygen and turn into other oxides ("scale") such as Fe3O4, FeO, Fe2O3. This conversion should cause the rust to shrink, because some of the mass is lost and these oxides are denser than rust. It should also break the rust crystals into a powder.
You're overthinking the problem. Heat expands the part giving room hopefully, for capillary action to occur with the penetrant or the wax.
Thanks for adding a little science to the issue.
@@farmerbill6855 Expansion helps too, but it is not that much. If the axle too gets hot, the gap will hardly open up. As for wax or penetrating oil, it certainly helps sliding after the part gets unstuck, but I don't see how it could soften the solid rust that is holding the parts together, even if the rust gets soaked in it.
@@JorgeStolfi My understanding is this; Since the rust transfer heat slower than iron, there's an insulation gap between the axle and the boss. In other words, the boss heats up faster, and expands faster than the axle in the beginning. Also take in consideration the time it takes for the heat to travel through the parts. This helps loosen the rust fixation between the parts. Added wax or oil can penetrate this crack (by capilary effect?) , and provide some lubrication between the parts.
@@sidekickbob7227 Hm, I smell a journal paper on this problem, maybe even a thesis topic and research grant... If only I was in Mechanical Engineering...
I just stumbled on this video ruclips.net/video/AWOaeGy_HnA/видео.html The guys fumble to loosen some stuck bolts, it is great comedy. But at one point they torch *the bolt* rather than the flange, and try to unscrew it while still red hot -- and it *may* have worked, against expectations. Could it be?
Another great one. Thanks Dave
Thanks for sharing with us Dave, going back and using all the lubricants and tools of the day was interesting and so many of them are still being used today and work just as well. Using the old parts from what is left and fabricating replacement parts to look original is the finest history related material to show the past and where we have come from. This is another awesome ride in the making. Fred.
I have heard of using wax when installing screws in hardwoods and also for when cutting aluminum with a chop saw but never heard of it being used to remove rusted metal parts. Learned something new today. Thank you for the knowledge.
When I was a little boy we were told that to lubricate wood screws one would use soap my Granddaddy taught me that one. Wax would work just as well. I figured that the heat would draw the wax up into those pieces, and of course the last piece took a little while but one has to have patience in disassembly to avoid damaging parts and spending more time repairing them. Isn't it amazing how that agricultural equipment can be so complicated from a mechanical standpoint?
Amazing how easily it comes apart (for some values of easily!) after sitting idle in the weather for mumblety-mumble years. Yeah, with that much iron in good shape, well worth the rebuild. We gotta see it in action.
I use WD40 "Specialist" on stuck bolts... here is how good it is. Kennel bolts the dogs had been peeing on for 11 years... so stuck you'd about break a wrench on them. Regular penetrating oil got nowhere. Sprayed with this silicone Specialist stuff, left overnight, came right loose. Same with bolts that had been underground for almost two years. Had to get 'em loose in winter no less.
I also use it to coat the snow shovel so the wet stuff doesn't stick. :)
I suspect that cast iron weathers much better than steel, but I don't know why. I've disassembled things made of cast iron (i.e., ground contact farm implements) that probably would have been just one large lump of rust if they were steel.
@@tuberzish Might be because the corrosion layer prevents it from welding itself to something else?
I will remember the bee's wax for cutting thank you for menchuning it.
As an engineering nerd, it's fascinating to see it dismantled - doubly so, as if you say, somebody sat down to design the simplest machine to do the job required of it. K.I.S.S. is all too readily forgotten when designing something, and the poor soul out in the field (actually, in this case) ends up with a devil of a job keeping it maintained!
Grandpa taught me how to KISS when I was a kid :)
There were no computers...... and very few other designs to compare to. I knew the gentleman that created the prototype hydrostatic driven Cub Cadet and Wheelhorse garden tractors. As Charlie said.... first thing he needed was a garden tractor. He had to go back to school to learn mechanical engineering. He was a hydraulics engineer. 😊
For such a simple machine there sure are a lot of parts!
For such a simple machine there sure are a lot of parts!
You should have used beeswax here instead of paraffin. I’m sure it wouldn’t have affected the results, but it smells good.
Excellent work, as ever, Sir. I've been following along for a couple years now -- and I finally figured out what's missing: a'int no cussin'! Either you don't, or is it carefully edited out? I could >never< make it through some of your difficulties without a few choice words.
I like that your drift/punch is the stem off an OS&Y valve. 9:34 The little groove seen is there for a valve tamper switch which indicates that it was likely used in a fire sprinkler system.
A piece of pipe that fits easily around the shaft. Use as a slide hammer to get that last piece of fragile cast iron off.
The really amazing thing is, you remember how that all goes back together!
Excellent job!!
I have used wax several times to get the axle flanges off of John Deere garden tractors along with a torch and a puller. Some guys saw them and split them but JD wants like $150 each now. Years ago a friend said his mechanic used heat and wax to remove the exhaust manifold bolts from 460 and 390 Fords.
So, I thought why haven't Dave sprayed all the nuts, bolts and shafts in the beginning with penetrating oil. Here in South Africa we would've done it. But then I reminded myself that Merican iron quality was just better.
You're a braver man than I, all that pounding on irreplaceable cast parts. I surly would have cracked something, brass drift and all. Good job.
Best regards from Indiana.
You break it you braze it.
Wax or soap with nailing timber is a great lube when hammering into hard timbers!!