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@@TheEsotericaChannel You put me on to Paul Harrell’s channel. I was sad to hear of his passing. Thanks for introducing me to his page and his knowledge.
@@ForwardslashTim In German /Berlin Dialect, "malochen" has the meaning of hard, exhaustive working. It came to German via Hebrew: meläkä, which means the same. So in Metropolis that's a doubling meaning
@@alexnader2489 The Czechslovakian word for slave labor is robota. It was the origen of the word robot, and first was used in the play Rossum's Universal Robots.
13:09 That is from Malta, I am one of that stele's curators. Thar Phoenician inscriptions was found at Tal-Virtú, Rabat, are significant artifacts that highlight the area's ancient history as a burial site. Dated to the 8th-7th centuries BC, the stele features the controversial phrase "mlk baal," which may refer to a Canaanite god or a sacrifice. Some theories suggest it involved child sacrifice, though it could also mean a lamb sacrifice as you are saying. It was found with animal bones and vases, the inscriptions remain a subject of debate, and human remains may have been overlooked or excluded from early reports. It is one of my favourite artefacts we have on display at the archaeology museum in Valletta.
@@TheEsotericaChannel Yes, one of my curatorial missions is to bring out the dark side, the esoteric side of our artifacts since prehistory onwards. This channel inspires me
@@TheEsotericaChannel would love a follow-up interview conversation sometime perhaps, Dr Sledge? In the spirit of the Bornless Rite episode follow-up interview? An archaeology adjunct series?
I had never considered there would *be* an earlier version of the Isaac story where Abraham went through with it. Abraham being stopped and Isaac being alive to father Jacob always seemed so central to the mythos. Absolutely fascinating
The early alternative narratives I have heard is that Abraham did complete the offering and four days later God puts Isaac back together from ashes and then calls in an angel to repair the wound on the neck and then sends the boy back to Earth.
@@jeffhart4361 I don't remember the earlier sources but I do recall later sources that might lead you to the earlier ones: One Midrashic source is the Pirkei de-Rabbi Eliezer (Chapter 31), it is implied that Isaac was near death or actually died and he was revived by God. Origen’s Homilies on Genesis draws allegorical interpretations of Isaac’s binding and interprets the event as a prefiguration of Christ’s death and resurrection. In Islam, the story is known as the “Dhabih” and is found in the Quran though the son’s name is not explicitly mentioned.
I’d never thought of that bit of irony there between Micah teaching “you don’t need sacrifices, much less child sacrifice, just do your best and be sorry when you mess up” and Jesus, if trusting the gospels, taught more or less the same thing, yet after his death was theologically transformed into the ultimate (in all senses) child sacrifice. It’s fun to imagine what kind of discussions(fights) the different authors and characters would have had if you put them all into a room together
I often wonder what would have happened if god had asked Sarah instead of Abraham to sacrifice her child Isaac? I like to think she would have taken her shoe off to him.
@@TheMagebear theres a funny King Herod sketch (by John Finnemore) that deals with Herod ordering slaughter of babies to catch Jesus. It's well worth a watch, and includes this line: "...they all love you, Sire, but I fear even they might balk at giving up their children for slaughter. You know how mothers get..."
Well... to be fair, if you're gonna have ritual sacrifice, might as well be retroactive; i.e. take people who've already died (tragically) and treat their death as if it was, after the fact, a very effective, cathartic and resonant cosmic act. That way, no one else needs to die, but the buzz and cultural impact of the initial sacrifice cult gets to be had anyway. Everybody wins! Hence the entire concept of "martyrdom" applied to really just anyone and everyone who died tragically, and the impulse to co-opt people who died in the holocaust and convert them to Mormonism or wtvr. "His name was Robert Paulson!"
I always thought of Jesus as a testament to "It doesn't matter how good You are because You will always get crucified for manipulating the public even if in the best of intentions, but the Universe has your back if you actually are perfectly doing the right." or like a middle finger at a God in a "Told you so" kind of way.
That infant for silver ritual reminds me of something we do in my Tae Kwon Do school. At a tournament, at the end of the event each competitor approaches the headmaster of our school and offers him our medals as thanks for his teachings. He then acknowledges and returns them. The idea being that the reward belongs to the school but he returns them as recognition for the student's work. No money exchanges hands, but it seems a similar premise in my eyes.
aw as soon as that bit about the king sacrificing his "only begotten son" turned up at 13:14 I knew where this was going to end up, but the idea that Isaac was actually sacrificed still caught me by surprise
Justinus Pseudo-Paracelsus Neo-Trismegistus Sledge of Esoterica, aka Justin Sledgian Esotericus? (workshopping the good professor's esoteric moniker or eventual nom de plume/guerre)
@@TheEsotericaChannel Definitely does, I have a 13 year old daughter.. Off topic-I’ve heard you mention living in Michigan, If you’re a hockey fan, I’ve been listening to Agrippa today while installing the Hershey Bears new lockerrooms. Your hard work is contributing to so much work done around this country.
I love your channel so much. Your niche videos on religion and demons especially trigger my interest, the way you deliver the information is so satisfyingly informative but also relaxing. As a coincidence you happen to look facially a lot like my older brother, who is 10 years my senior and would tell me stories from video games and sometimes real world phenomena kind of like how you do. It's a bit of a stretch but watching you makes me feel nostalgic.
Would you ever consider making a video about any esoteric commentary or traditions surrounding the Akedah? It's a wonderful story that I've always felt has a deeper meaning and subtext, but I've never come across any good content about it. Great video, keep up the good work Dr. Sledge 🙏
I love that you're a yamaka-wearing jew who is able to step back and take an earnest look at your own religion - warts and all. I respect that. I love it, frankly. Would that all religious people in the world were so honest with themselves. You're a treasure, duder.
Sledge is an atheist. He actually says he's religious but not spiritual, or at least he used to say it. Not that there's anything wrong with being religious or irreligious, spiritual or not spiritual, etc.
@@ADITYAMISHRA-h7g He has actually said in an interview on the Harmonic Atheist channel that he does not believe in the existence of any supernatural entities, including God. The strand of Judaism he follows does not require him to believe in the existence of God. You can check it yourself.
Human sacrifice being ubiquitous always made sense to me because how long do we lose family to famine over winter or from draught, etc, before a ritual is made to take some of the weight and sting away. Eventually the origin becomes lost and rituals become abused and adultered to a reprehensible level. Always enjoy the breadth of your coverage
@@anthonycarlisle6184 I think it’s important to remember though, as Dr Sledge points out, infant mortality at this point in time was probably somewhere around 50%, you couldn’t really get too attached to your babies, especially not newborns, because lots of them just didn’t make it. And if they believed that by giving up their first born, that had a coin flip chance at survival anyways, they would have more successful pregnancies and fewer premature deaths, it made sense to at least consider it What I’m saying is, let’s not judge too harshly about situations we can’t even comprehend
sort of makes sense. but then again, switzerland banned the construction of minarets and the southern US is banning teaching CRT in elementary schools.
Not necessarily so. The allegations of child sacrifice are essentially the same kind of thing as the Medieval blood libel: fear-mongering propaganda to demonize an out-group using the most horrific thing that can be imagined. The fact that no Jews were actually murdering Christian babies to use their blood to dip stolen Eucharist wafers into to mock Christian belief (and b/c they, Jews, were 'satanic' by inner nature or somesuch) did not stop European nations from prohibiting it. That kind of thing goes on more than you'd expect, we just don't usually question the horrible accusations and are willing to accept the most twisted, nightmarish fantasies as absolute reality. A more recent example would be the Satanic Panic stories of Satanic child abuse and sacrifice at day care centers in the US in the 1980s. No evidence was ever found to show that that ever actually happened anywhere, but that did not for a second stop people from frantically decrying and prohibiting it.
I could also see how for some people for a time it could’ve made sense, and that God following through could’ve caught the attention of people who abused His keeping of promises and thus it was banned. I wish it was better understood bc I think miscarriages and infant death could’ve been reconceptualized this whole time ppl wouldn’t have felt so much doubt and pain and guilt and stigma.
@@redoktopus3047the minarets I can’t speak on but they are 100% teaching critical theory in school. They are not teaching it directly but the underlying philosophy is imbrued. Regarding the racial aspect of critical theory, if your kids come home with ideas about things like white privilege they are learning critical theory.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetoculturalthat's pretty disingenuous. CRT is based on some obvious and known facts, regardless of what you think of the theory, it is based on a lot of things that are in no way contentious. These things are also just the normal set of historical facts that are known to each and all of us in America. You can't adequately go about teaching American history without going over slavery, the Indian wars, the 3/5ths compromise, Missouri compromise, the Civil War, the trail of tears, manifest destiny, Reconstruction, women's suffrage, Jim Crow, sundown towns, Japanese internment camps, the multiple civil rights movements across numerous generations. You don't even have to mention lynching, the KKK, Rodney King, burning down black communities, or the Tuskegee experiments, or the detention centers we have today, or the fact that a white person can do whatever they want to a native person to this day, and as long as you drop the body in the right area, that person will never see legal consequences, to get the point across. Not to mention the dozens of times we broke or ignored treaties and stole lands from everyone. None of that has to ever be brought up to make the point that there is an imbalance of importance. To say that the American project has regularly benefitted "white" people over other groups is not contentious. We have the legal documents, the laws and treaties, the court cases and compromises, even the journals and letters in some cases. We know that. We don't need a graduate level legal or academic framework to make sense of that. We can literally just go and read what these people wrote. They often spoke plainly about what they were doing and why. All of that might make you uncomfortable, but I'm sure you can toughen up and handle it. Facts don't care about your feelings. We're all capable of having an honest conversation about these things without having to pretend that saying the sky is blue and the grass is green is some kind of commie plot or whatever
To be fair the Ezekiel view kinda tracks with the Exodus "Oh you're afraid you'll die if you go where I told you to? That's fine guess you'll all just die out here then." God.
Thanks for this video! Watched this on Christmas Day with the family. What a fascinating wealth of detail and insight, as well as humor. Found out from my young adult sons there is a video game called the Binding of Isaac, which prompted a lively discussion. And the ending of your video-wow! Your videos are always thoughtful and informative, funny, and provocative! As a former near eastern studies major, as well as being raised Catholic, I love your deep dives into religious and historical esoterica!
To be fair, there is a stark differentiation of philosophy between the god of the Old Testament and Jesus, to whom those words were attributed in the New Testament. Seems the big M and the big Y would be in the way of that actual "come to Jesus" moment...I don't see that statement being overshadowed at all, of you follow the logic of the Jesus story and its mythos. The narrative difference keeps the muddy boots from stomping around the house.
Demeter and Arta show child sacrifice even in ancient Greece. In arta, the same story of Jephta is retold, but Demeter is special: when she searches for her daugther Persephone, she's invited be a King. There, she tries to save the King's son Demophon and wants to give him immortality - in burning him alive every night at the oven on the kitchen... This stor is one of the central stories of the Eleusynian mysteries. This story is probably braught to central Greece from Crete... not sooo far away from ancient Phoenicia
Also possibly relevant is how *old* the Eleusinian Mysteries are. There's a theory that Kore used to be a nigh-supreme cthonic goddess before the Mycanean era got to her. There's plenty of possibility that there's a connection occurring during the Minoan era, but we have nothing to really go off evidentially.
Because if academics permitted themselves to ponder the possibility, then they would have to face the fact that the people who run the universities who fund them, the publishing houses who print their works, as well as politics, banking and the media are the same people doing this. After which, they would have to confront that fact that they themselves are the useful idiots propagating their lies and indirectly harming humanity. So it's just easier for them to do the mental gymnastics and tell themselves that iT wAs AlL a DrEaM...
Hey Justin! Just realised I never mentioned this. I’m writing a comic book within which I wanna include lots of world mythology and esoteric/occult inspiration. Your videos are not only a treasure trove for such inspiration, but really opened my eyes to the ways people have studied and perceived occult practised throughout the ages. Thank you so much for your hard work! Hopefully I’ll get to show you mine someday!!
I'm writing poetry, touching on these subjects....my friends are creating the music too. We will look for visual art to complete the collaboration..... Good luck
What about the connection of Solomon to Moloch in 1 Kings 11? It’s probably just a scribal mistake. In verse 5 we correctly have: וילך שלמה אחרי עשתרת אלהי צדנים ואחרי מלכם שקץ עמנים Solomon followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Phoenicians, and Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. Then in verse 7 אז יבנה שלמה במה לכמוש שקץ מואב בהר אשר על־פני ירושל͏ם ולמלך שקץ בני עמון At that time, Solomon built a shrine for Chemosh the abomination of Moab on the hill near Jerusalem, and one for Molech the abomination of the Ammonites. There it's probable that the sofit mem of Milcom was dropped thus transforming that Kaf into a sofit Kaf and pointed to read “molech.” However, Molech was probably not a god, much less the god of the Ammonites. Milcom was, as correctly noted in verse 5.
I don't have a hebrew character keyboard. So I have to go phonetically. Does "Molech" share an etymological root with "milchamah," War? (note to others - Hebrew letters are largely consonants, the vowels are little symbols under and next to the letters.)
When you asked to put a pin on the idea that first born sacrifice could erase one's sins I actually let our a mildly horrified "oh". There's something shocking in realizing the sacrifice for humanity thing is following a tradition of real child murder.
It’s funny how the Christian religion is founded on human sacrifice by crucifixion, but the concept is so offensive to us now that most Christians deny it.
@@MamA-jp9bu Who's we? Because that was actually the Romans. They clearly executed Jesus for the crime of inciting an insurrection. The word they used has been mistranslated as thief, it actually meant something more like rebel leader, and it explains their "the king of the jews" thing. The story was rewritten afterwards by Paul when he took over the cult and pivoted to converting Romans instead of Jews. He chose to throw the Jews under the bus and have them take the blame because it gave him a greater potential market for converts. Cynical, but it worked- I'm not sure Christianity would still exist today if it had stayed a Jewish movement and not ended up being embraced by the Roman empire. And the poor innocent Jews have suffered all over the world ever since. It's pretty depressing.
ESOTERICA! Literally every one of the last 10 videos have been things I've been wanting to learn more about in the last few months. Thank You for what you do and keep on doing it, whatever it is!
Fantastic video as always! such a broad subject i would obviously love a sequel, perhaps addressing David maybe sacrificing his son for the killing his wife's previous husband the hittite, the foundational sacrifice of the rebuilding of Jericho, the valley of hinnom in greater detail, etc. would also love a video on holy / temple prostitution as a practice! keep up the great work
Dude your channel exploded. I remember watching your YHWH video last year and to see how much your subscriptions have grown is wild. You deserve the success
Had a couple of unrelated thoughts about this one (or at least, I don't see a relationship between them). One had to do with the prophets arguing "Child sacrifice is a foreign rite inappropriate to the worship of ha-Shem" -- instead of the (admittedly better) argument "Child sacrifice is _very evil, holy crap stop sacrificing children."_ To be fair to them, I feel like it's at least possible that, when we're talking about an individual or society with a conscience warped enough to even think about sacrificing children, they may be too far gone for the better argument to mean anything them. If so, appealing to nationalist pride might be the only _effective_ way to get the individual or society in question to cut that shit out. The other had to do with the closing bit about the influence of the firstborn-son-sacrifice concept in Christianity. There is no question that influence of that kind exists, especially in evangelical circles; the "penal substitution" doctrine of the atonement almost literally and directly _is_ that. And it's not made of whole cloth. Even on the most generous interpretation, there are passages in the New Testament that permit that kind of reading (maybe they don't _demand_ it, but they permit it). To me, this makes it rather striking that the first several centuries of Christian theology about the atonement are dominated not by this view of it, but by two other ideas: 1. The "ransom theory": this understands Christ's death, while quite real, as something almost like a "feint"; he fools Satan into snatching something he could not keep (Christ), and in so doing, losing his hold on humanity. (Why this would make Satan lose his hold on humanity doesn't always get answered, but based on what I've read, the answer often has to do with idea #2 here.) 2. The "recapitulation theory": this builds on New Testament, specifically Pauline, language that Christ is the "new Adam," and that he divinizes mankind by succeeding where the "old Adam" failed. (This second theory is imo also rather interesting in that it would seem to fulfill, of all things, _the serpent's_ promise that by eating of the forbidden tree men would "be like God, knowing good and evil"). I admit, I'm not altogether sure what conclusion to draw from the early Church's (relative) de-emphasis of penal-substitutionary imagery/doctrine in favor of ransoming and recapitulatory imagery/doctrine. But it seems like an interesting aspect of theological history.
But there's zero indication that they objected to child sacrifice on ethical grounds. And those biblical texts don't hold back on telling the reader what god is against. Actually it's a repeated theme that prophets are compelled to speak out unpopular things Yahwe wants to push through.
@@MrCmon113 I think "zero indication" is a _little_ harsh. I mean, the books in question do say things like "which I did not command, nor did it enter My mind": whether we take that as written in good faith (so to speak) or not, it seems designed to _sound_ ethical. But the uncertainty is why I wrote things in terms of "it's possible"; I know people sometimes say things like that as something like sarcasm or just to cover their asses, but I meant the phrase quite literally.
Given the death rate of children under 5 in those times, it might be worth considering that these sacrifices might be a way of honoring/disposing of children's bodies.
Could be, but I would also not put it past the ancients to murder children for that. When you look at the texts from that time, women and children were property rather than people of their own. So, both is possible.
@@JustSumGuy it's not just a take, it's one of the arguments put forward in Carthage: A History; the write-up of Serge Lancel's excavations at Carthage(or at least: the 2012 edition of it. Further excavation may have clarified the issue and I've just not read the reports). To be clear: his team/the team following him after his death did NOT argue it's DEFINITELY that, but they did argue its a possibility we can't rule out, that there's no definitive evidence of deliberate sacrifice of live and healthy children, that many of the infant bones found show signs of disease, and that the tophets are associated with civic cemeteries(so: possibly are civic crematoria). It's unfortunate that the Romans destroyed so much of the old city, and the Phoenicians' own records throughout their cities, or we might be able to answer the question definitively; as it stands, the only historical sources we have on their society are from VERY hostile witnesses like the Romans and YHWH cult.
Ezekiel was my favorite book of the Bible when I read it. You can always count on him to turn everything up to 11 😂 This was an incredible episode (as always). Especially the mic drop at the end. If I go Jungian a moment, it’s like somehow in the collective unconscious there was guilt about the whole sacrificing kids thing deep in the shadow. So it needed to all be *for* something. And what more altruistic cause could be found than literally washing away all of humankind’s sins? Super fascinating.
9:45 i found some denotations of Baal with a definite ה in Melachim and once in Shoftim 6, 32. There are some mentions of Baal with ה that might refer to its stages, altars and priests, but in melachim you also have direct reference to it with ה.
This reminded me of the SCP article I have read titled "Tophet". It's about a Moloch idol with a furnace in it's belly that would talk through anomalous means. The idol would speak of a catastrophe that would take place, and would not stop unless a child would be burnt inside it. The kicker is that the offering must be made by the child's mother, must willingly sacrifice her child (not coerced or put under influence of any substance), and must have a loving relationship with the sacrificial child. It's one of the most horrifying articles I have read in the SCP website.
The death of all the first born of Egypt during the final plague in Exodus now takes on a new context watching this video. Ironic that the lamb's blood is what saves the Israelites (wonder if that's a later edit also). I wonder if the deaths of the Egyptian first born was actually a large scale sacrifice offering to Yahweh to free the Israelites from slavery something akin to the story of King Mesha. Brings a more sinister context to Exodus.
I need to do a deep dive on it because I am woefully behind in my understanding of Egyptian mythology. However, I've read that the Moses-esque story of rescuing a baby from a river is far older than the Biblical record of such an event. In other words, by the time the Israelites left Egypt, they may have glommed onto some of their lore and passed it down. There seems to be strong evidence that the people, who wrote Deuteronomy, bungled everything up because they didn't like the concept of Ashterah but the Old Restament still refers to "god" using plural terminology in a couple of places and there are several references to Greek mythology. Wouldn't surprise me if they did the same with the Egyptian story.
Every one of the plagues of Egypt was associated with one of the gods the Egyptians worshipped. Yahweh was showing that he was more powerful, for example, the Egyptians worshipped the Nile...it was turned to blood. Yahweh stuck the land with darkness that could be felt to mock their Sun god, but where the Israelites lived in Goshen, there was light. I doubt the Egyptians or the israelites offered up the firstborn to Yahweh. For even among the houses of the Israelites didn't have the lamb's blood on the doorposts, their firstborn was struck down. Not all the children of Israel left in the Exodus, and there were many Egyptians who did leave with them.
@@stevenlee2484 Yes! I have wondered the same as well because the Nazis were very much into the occult and occultic practice --but I think that it was done more for increased knowledge and technology,
Neat to note that Nergal's legacy is now tied to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k as Nurgle. From what i can gather, Nurgle and Nergal have a lot of thematic and 'domain' overlap of conflict, disease, and death.
@@roys.1889 excuse me Dr. Sledge, what are the theological implications of the God Emperor and his sons, the Primarchs, waging war against and being turned on each other by the gods of Chaos?
@@Earthshine256 I mean Warhammer is rife with mythological references. Khorne, the god of blood and murder, has a powerful servant named Khaine, whose name sounds like a famous prime murderer. The Primarchs are, of course, a gold mine of references, from the ones directly named after gods to the ones that less blatantly suggest ancient cultures. And this isn't even touching the names of various space marine chapters, as well as the slew of less relevant characters with names and purposes that point to our own ancient history.
I can't express how glad I am that you made a video on this. I grew up very Christian and heard stories of molach and hearing a more historical view on this is calming to the soul
They've excavated some tophets & it seems they were specific burial sites for babies & very young children (under 2) that were cremated, put in urns often accompanied by a sacrifiicial lamb. It was difficult to get any DNA from the charred bone fragments but what they did get indicated the ages of the children & that it contained both boys & girls & some animal cremains. Child sacrifice probably did occur but it seems like a rare thing in times of extreme stress? And I doubt they were just hurling infants into an oven considering the importance of blood sacrifice in many of these cultures. Probably sacrificed similarly to a goat or sheep (slit throat) & then cremated very ritually. Accusing your enemies of killing/eating babies is very old & unfortunately still used & believed to demonize X group of outsider people today. (Satanic Panic) I haven't looked into it for a while, so new archaeological evidence *for* child sacrifice may have been uncovered recently.
I wish I could somehow just siphon this man’s knowledge, so I could instantly share his deep understanding of the esoteric, history, language & religion. Sir you are amazing, thank you for the top tier content! Seriously one of the most underrated channels I am aware of, even with 720k subscribers 😊
Great episode as always! One of my students and I were just discussing the derivation of Moloch/molk. Note though that Korean Hangul is Phoenician-derived too as its core consonants were based on the ‘Phags-Pa script which was based on Tibetan which came from Brahmi, which came from early Aramaic, which came from Phoenician.
Would love a video on Rudolf Steiner. As a former conflicted Waldorf school kid, your vids help me contextualise that community and by extension my early years.
Thank you for this great episode! I really love Stavrakopoulou and Levenson’s scholarship and will be sure to check out Dewrell as well. Just came across a nice used Septuagint yesterday and will be delving into this whole fascinating issue of its’ pre-Masoretic sources and content.
Wow what an episode. Can you please dedicate an episode to Phoenicians? If they're the originators of the child sacrifice cult, then that would be an even more interesting topic than Israelite child sacrifice.
This is such a better and more measured explanation of the scholarly conversation around this topic than the one we got from Dan McClellan recently. Thank you for going into the detail and being fair-minded about all the different interpretations. Excellent video!
Agreed it is just using common sense "Don't offer your children up for some type of "Molech" or child specific style or type of child sacrifice. So probably not to a demon.
I read the poem "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg for the first time like 12 years ago when I was about 20. In the poem Ginsberg repeats the word Moloch at least 10 times. I can't share any insight into how he uses it, a lot of that part of the poem went over my head. I'm going to have to go back and read the poem again now that I have this insight, maybe it will make more sense!
This absolutely blew my mind. I would love to know the origin of your translations, in particular Isaiah 30:33. The word "the Moloch" does not appear in most translations that I've found, but I have discovered that MLK often gets rendered as "king". Of course, I'm aware that translations are only as good as the biases of the translators will permit, so perhaps someone could enlighten me as to which version (DSS, MT, LXX, etc) is being used for this particular verse. Yes, something more cheery next time, but the death metal and Lovecraft fan in me did find this episode particularly groovy. ;-)
The first time I heard about Moloch, at least that I remember, is the trivia section for the Elder Scrolls god Molag Bal and what inspired his name. The second part of his name being based on Baal but that is pretty self evident.
early tes lore is full of this dumb shit, but that's kind of the appeal about it, learning about it is much about learning it's history like learning about real religion is
The Isaac story kind of reminds me of the death of Iphigenia? Where originally she's killed but in a later story, Artemis spirits her away and replaces her the same way?
The idea of Molekh being connected to a vow is so fascinating as it gives new context to the Hebrew bible’s “don’t go whoring after…” phrasing which now seems more apt as the vow relates to a transaction involving the sale of flesh
I believe that human sacrifice began as a survival technique against starvation. They were, after all, sacrificing to the storm god during drought to bring on the rain. Even if it didn't rain, the result was less mouths to feed.
@@dietlindvonhohenwald448 I don’t pretend to know the entire bible and if at church they ever mentioned it clearly didn’t caught my attention enough to remember it.
This is a similar practice by 18th and 19th century European magician ship pirates who buried their treasure and killed a slave over it to guard their treasure in the unseen world. Maybe the slaughtered/sacrificed child in the moloch ritual was to have the soul to serve them for what they wanted involving the god.
The term Tofet reminded me of tuhfah, the Urdu word meaning “gift” - borrowed from classical Persian of the same meaning which in turn comes from the Arabic for ‘masterwork’ or ‘rarity’. But that still hasnt gone back as far as the Hebrew, but i wonder if there is a link - perhaps the Arabic term comes from the Hebrew?
There is something disturbing about child sacrifices that cannot be found in any other forms of murder or rites. If we were to believe that ancient israelites performed such rituals even once, then we can assume that similarly to many other rituals these were also performed with great amount of music and dancing, and there is something truly disturbing about a group of people dancing and singing with religious joy to drown out the sound of burning infant. It's like hell being summoned to earth for a moment. Great video as always.
Ok while obvious in hindsight, the idea that the sacrifice of a first born male for the remission of sins is already part of Judaic culture at the supposed time of the crucifixion is extremely enlightening. Imma say it frankly, the idea that the fulcrum of Christian faith has it's roots in a tradition of child sacrifice to Yahweh is not something that is talked about enough.
because it really doesn't. it's more about rebirth and self sacrifice. child sacrifice is more of a canaanite practice and has always been strongly condemned by christians. but go off.
@@ct-gt2dt The Jews are Canaanites. Sacrifice of first born males was part of Yahweh worship both before and after the Israelites split off from the rest of Canaanites society to go have their own little storm god cult in the mountains. Yes the practice was repudiated and forbidden after Josiah, which would have been unnecessary if it wasn't happening. The video covers this. The point is that the god the Abrahamic faiths revere as ultimately wise had to change his mind about baby sacrifice, but only so much, since that's scheme he reverted back to when humanity's sins needed forgiven. Or at least, that's the story we're left with after early Christians clearly found themselves revisiting the theme after a very inconvenient crucifixion was found in need of an explanation.
I used to view Jesus being crucified as him simply dying for the sins of the humanity. Recently I’ve had my eyes opened to the child sacrifice connection. Israelites performed animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. At times there were human sacrifices. What is more than an animal sacrifice? A first born sacrifice. What more than that? A king’s first born. What the ultimate sacrifice? A perfect sinless being that is the first born son of a virgin and God.
@@stevebollinger It sure highlights the danger of taking those ideas seriously. As he said, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do within the context of this worldview. Ol Yahoo was certainly a product of his time.
There is nothing like sitting here, cleaning the dishes after yesterday's Christmas dinner, while listening to a sharp dressed dude talk about ancient child sacrifices. What a time to be.
Thank You !!! There are lots of similarities between this and the ancient Persian "Test of Fire". it is said that when zarathushtra was born and he was so illumined that the jealous sorcerers conencted his light to Ahriman (Devil). So they had to do the famous test on him, putting him in a godly fire and if he survived he is godly and if he burns he was Ahrimanic. same ritual was even used later in post-zarathushtra zoroastrianism. the fire test is also said to be done on Abraham in Quran as the fire did not burn him and turned into an orchard. Also the word Tophet is very similar to Persian "Tohfe" which is a very precious gift. It is used in a famous proverb in persian that when someone thinks very highly of themselves others will say that " He Thinks he is Tohfe" which in my opinion is very similar to the idea of the one (child) that is chosen to be sacrificed.
You really can interpret Jesus’ death as the ultimate suicide, the ultimate human sacrifice, the embodiment of what a “lawful” in the context of alignment charts character would do.
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@@TheEsotericaChannel You put me on to Paul Harrell’s channel. I was sad to hear of his passing. Thanks for introducing me to his page and his knowledge.
That was very insightful. Given the state of the world, it will not be long before someone somewhere will pick this practice back up…
would it be possible to get a text version of your bibliography for this video?
@@TheEsotericaChannel hey can you please do a video on ASTARTE(ancient Astarte not the goetic version)
@@NicoleAntoinette03 why?
It blows me away to have access to such esoteric wisdom while im in my peasant job
if you're ever in doubt go through proper channels
@@Super1d3go omfggg lol
The German film Metropolis (1927) has a striking scene where Moloch is depicted as a giant machine workers feed themselves to.
@@ForwardslashTim In German /Berlin Dialect, "malochen" has the meaning of hard, exhaustive working. It came to German via Hebrew: meläkä, which means the same. So in Metropolis that's a doubling meaning
Metropolis was written based on liber 51.
One of my 1st images in my mind when seeing the title along with the thoughts about Carthage
@@alexnader2489 The Czechslovakian word for slave labor is robota. It was the origen of the word robot, and first was used in the play Rossum's Universal Robots.
13:09 That is from Malta, I am one of that stele's curators. Thar Phoenician inscriptions was found at Tal-Virtú, Rabat, are significant artifacts that highlight the area's ancient history as a burial site. Dated to the 8th-7th centuries BC, the stele features the controversial phrase "mlk baal," which may refer to a Canaanite god or a sacrifice. Some theories suggest it involved child sacrifice, though it could also mean a lamb sacrifice as you are saying. It was found with animal bones and vases, the inscriptions remain a subject of debate, and human remains may have been overlooked or excluded from early reports. It is one of my favourite artefacts we have on display at the archaeology museum in Valletta.
What a cool connection! Thanks for the work you do!
And thank you Dr Sledge. We have Phoenician amulets with inscripts we excavated from tombs that depict Egyptian gods. fascinating objects
Absolutely, Malta is one of the most fascinating places for me! I'd love to visit.
@@TheEsotericaChannel Yes, one of my curatorial missions is to bring out the dark side, the esoteric side of our artifacts since prehistory onwards. This channel inspires me
@@TheEsotericaChannel would love a follow-up interview conversation sometime perhaps, Dr Sledge? In the spirit of the Bornless Rite episode follow-up interview? An archaeology adjunct series?
I had never considered there would *be* an earlier version of the Isaac story where Abraham went through with it. Abraham being stopped and Isaac being alive to father Jacob always seemed so central to the mythos. Absolutely fascinating
The early alternative narratives I have heard is that Abraham did complete the offering and four days later God puts Isaac back together from ashes and then calls in an angel to repair the wound on the neck and then sends the boy back to Earth.
@@BabyHoolighan Nice!
Basically an early rendition of the Jesus myth.
@@BabyHoolighan fascinating. Do you remember where you heard this?
@@jeffhart4361 I don't remember the earlier sources but I do recall later sources that might lead you to the earlier ones:
One Midrashic source is the Pirkei de-Rabbi Eliezer (Chapter 31), it is implied that Isaac was near death or actually died and he was revived by God.
Origen’s Homilies on Genesis draws allegorical interpretations of Isaac’s binding and interprets the event as a prefiguration of Christ’s death and resurrection.
In Islam, the story is known as the “Dhabih” and is found in the Quran though the son’s name is not explicitly mentioned.
@@BabyHoolighan thanks!
I’d never thought of that bit of irony there between Micah teaching “you don’t need sacrifices, much less child sacrifice, just do your best and be sorry when you mess up” and Jesus, if trusting the gospels, taught more or less the same thing, yet after his death was theologically transformed into the ultimate (in all senses) child sacrifice.
It’s fun to imagine what kind of discussions(fights) the different authors and characters would have had if you put them all into a room together
That is an insight!
I often wonder what would have happened if god had asked Sarah instead of Abraham to sacrifice her child Isaac? I like to think she would have taken her shoe off to him.
@@TheMagebear theres a funny King Herod sketch (by John Finnemore) that deals with Herod ordering slaughter of babies to catch Jesus. It's well worth a watch, and includes this line: "...they all love you, Sire, but I fear even they might balk at giving up their children for slaughter. You know how mothers get..."
Well... to be fair, if you're gonna have ritual sacrifice, might as well be retroactive; i.e. take people who've already died (tragically) and treat their death as if it was, after the fact, a very effective, cathartic and resonant cosmic act. That way, no one else needs to die, but the buzz and cultural impact of the initial sacrifice cult gets to be had anyway. Everybody wins! Hence the entire concept of "martyrdom" applied to really just anyone and everyone who died tragically, and the impulse to co-opt people who died in the holocaust and convert them to Mormonism or wtvr. "His name was Robert Paulson!"
I always thought of Jesus as a testament to "It doesn't matter how good You are because You will always get crucified for manipulating the public even if in the best of intentions, but the Universe has your back if you actually are perfectly doing the right." or like a middle finger at a God in a "Told you so" kind of way.
That infant for silver ritual reminds me of something we do in my Tae Kwon Do school. At a tournament, at the end of the event each competitor approaches the headmaster of our school and offers him our medals as thanks for his teachings. He then acknowledges and returns them. The idea being that the reward belongs to the school but he returns them as recognition for the student's work. No money exchanges hands, but it seems a similar premise in my eyes.
don't know the exchange rate of kids to silver really killed me 💀
The passing nod to Sir Mix-a-Lot was exceptional.
Thanks for all the fine content. You, sir, are a treasure!
aw as soon as that bit about the king sacrificing his "only begotten son" turned up at 13:14 I knew where this was going to end up, but the idea that Isaac was actually sacrificed still caught me by surprise
Same.
"Look at me-Im the Moloch now!"
I laughed too hard at that .
Foreshadowing.
@@kingeternal_ap I have to commend this video for that!
1st time I've really focused on one of his videos in whole.
I have to say, his humble humorous sarcasm is hilarious 😂
Damn, I missed that part.
Demiurge synergy intensifies.
9:49 forgive me sir, but I have to correct you. You are in fact The Justin Sledge
Justinus Pseudo-Paracelsus Neo-Trismegistus Sledge of Esoterica, aka Justin Sledgian Esotericus? (workshopping the good professor's esoteric moniker or eventual nom de plume/guerre)
Agreed, absolutely!
Brilliant, now you've put future scholars on the wrong track should your comment survive the end of our civilization....😮
@@MrZauberelefant Is that sarcasm?
Accept no substitutes....
Thanks! Great lecture! Fascinating. Disturbing. You sure stay busy.
Yeah, Hits different as the father of youngish children, gotta tell you
@@TheEsotericaChannel Definitely does, I have a 13 year old daughter..
Off topic-I’ve heard you mention living in Michigan, If you’re a hockey fan, I’ve been listening to Agrippa today while installing the Hershey Bears new lockerrooms. Your hard work is contributing to so much work done around this country.
With our powers combined!
I love your channel so much. Your niche videos on religion and demons especially trigger my interest, the way you deliver the information is so satisfyingly informative but also relaxing. As a coincidence you happen to look facially a lot like my older brother, who is 10 years my senior and would tell me stories from video games and sometimes real world phenomena kind of like how you do. It's a bit of a stretch but watching you makes me feel nostalgic.
Such a kind comment - thanks!
Would you ever consider making a video about any esoteric commentary or traditions surrounding the Akedah? It's a wonderful story that I've always felt has a deeper meaning and subtext, but I've never come across any good content about it.
Great video, keep up the good work Dr. Sledge 🙏
Sure!
@@TheEsotericaChannel Hell yeah, thank you sir, I'm eager for it!
@@Stoneworks 👍
I'm sure I'm not the only one to say that I would love to hear more about the Kabbalistic ramifications of the Binding of Isaac!
Ram-ifications! 🐐
yep! same!
@@kgarrison343 the biblical story or the game?
I love that you're a yamaka-wearing jew who is able to step back and take an earnest look at your own religion - warts and all. I respect that. I love it, frankly. Would that all religious people in the world were so honest with themselves. You're a treasure, duder.
It's fucking breath of fresh air that's for sure
Sledge is an atheist. He actually says he's religious but not spiritual, or at least he used to say it.
Not that there's anything wrong with being religious or irreligious, spiritual or not spiritual, etc.
@@redoktopus3047 Is he really an atheist?
@redoktopus3047 He follows reformed judaism...he's not an atheist
@@ADITYAMISHRA-h7g He has actually said in an interview on the Harmonic Atheist channel that he does not believe in the existence of any supernatural entities, including God. The strand of Judaism he follows does not require him to believe in the existence of God. You can check it yourself.
Human sacrifice being ubiquitous always made sense to me because how long do we lose family to famine over winter or from draught, etc, before a ritual is made to take some of the weight and sting away. Eventually the origin becomes lost and rituals become abused and adultered to a reprehensible level. Always enjoy the breadth of your coverage
@@anthonycarlisle6184 I think it’s important to remember though, as Dr Sledge points out, infant mortality at this point in time was probably somewhere around 50%, you couldn’t really get too attached to your babies, especially not newborns, because lots of them just didn’t make it. And if they believed that by giving up their first born, that had a coin flip chance at survival anyways, they would have more successful pregnancies and fewer premature deaths, it made sense to at least consider it
What I’m saying is, let’s not judge too harshly about situations we can’t even comprehend
dimorphism is the result from child sacrifice which has only diminished with extinction of giants and pixies imho
@@kqj5266wut
That's baseless speculation.
@@MrCmon113 agreed.
They don't make laws about not doing stuff if no one is doing it. They were doing it, and it became frowned upon, so they made laws prohibiting it.
sort of makes sense. but then again, switzerland banned the construction of minarets and the southern US is banning teaching CRT in elementary schools.
Not necessarily so. The allegations of child sacrifice are essentially the same kind of thing as the Medieval blood libel: fear-mongering propaganda to demonize an out-group using the most horrific thing that can be imagined. The fact that no Jews were actually murdering Christian babies to use their blood to dip stolen Eucharist wafers into to mock Christian belief (and b/c they, Jews, were 'satanic' by inner nature or somesuch) did not stop European nations from prohibiting it. That kind of thing goes on more than you'd expect, we just don't usually question the horrible accusations and are willing to accept the most twisted, nightmarish fantasies as absolute reality.
A more recent example would be the Satanic Panic stories of Satanic child abuse and sacrifice at day care centers in the US in the 1980s. No evidence was ever found to show that that ever actually happened anywhere, but that did not for a second stop people from frantically decrying and prohibiting it.
I could also see how for some people for a time it could’ve made sense, and that God following through could’ve caught the attention of people who abused His keeping of promises and thus it was banned. I wish it was better understood bc I think miscarriages and infant death could’ve been reconceptualized this whole time ppl wouldn’t have felt so much doubt and pain and guilt and stigma.
@@redoktopus3047the minarets I can’t speak on but they are 100% teaching critical theory in school. They are not teaching it directly but the underlying philosophy is imbrued. Regarding the racial aspect of critical theory, if your kids come home with ideas about things like white privilege they are learning critical theory.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetoculturalthat's pretty disingenuous.
CRT is based on some obvious and known facts, regardless of what you think of the theory, it is based on a lot of things that are in no way contentious. These things are also just the normal set of historical facts that are known to each and all of us in America.
You can't adequately go about teaching American history without going over slavery, the Indian wars, the 3/5ths compromise, Missouri compromise, the Civil War, the trail of tears, manifest destiny, Reconstruction, women's suffrage, Jim Crow, sundown towns, Japanese internment camps, the multiple civil rights movements across numerous generations.
You don't even have to mention lynching, the KKK, Rodney King, burning down black communities, or the Tuskegee experiments, or the detention centers we have today, or the fact that a white person can do whatever they want to a native person to this day, and as long as you drop the body in the right area, that person will never see legal consequences, to get the point across. Not to mention the dozens of times we broke or ignored treaties and stole lands from everyone. None of that has to ever be brought up to make the point that there is an imbalance of importance.
To say that the American project has regularly benefitted "white" people over other groups is not contentious. We have the legal documents, the laws and treaties, the court cases and compromises, even the journals and letters in some cases. We know that. We don't need a graduate level legal or academic framework to make sense of that. We can literally just go and read what these people wrote. They often spoke plainly about what they were doing and why.
All of that might make you uncomfortable, but I'm sure you can toughen up and handle it. Facts don't care about your feelings. We're all capable of having an honest conversation about these things without having to pretend that saying the sky is blue and the grass is green is some kind of commie plot or whatever
Fun fact! In Gaelic, "molach" is a generic term for something that's hairy/shaggy
To be fair the Ezekiel view kinda tracks with the Exodus "Oh you're afraid you'll die if you go where I told you to? That's fine guess you'll all just die out here then." God.
I'd pick the bear.
Thanks for this video! Watched this on Christmas Day with the family. What a fascinating wealth of detail and insight, as well as humor. Found out from my young adult sons there is a video game called the Binding of Isaac, which prompted a lively discussion. And the ending of your video-wow! Your videos are always thoughtful and informative, funny, and provocative! As a former near eastern studies major, as well as being raised Catholic, I love your deep dives into religious and historical esoterica!
19:19 Puts a whole new spin on that "suffer the little children onto me" stuff for sure! Appreciated the Big But meme btw 😂
🍑
To be fair, there is a stark differentiation of philosophy between the god of the Old Testament and Jesus, to whom those words were attributed in the New Testament. Seems the big M and the big Y would be in the way of that actual "come to Jesus" moment...I don't see that statement being overshadowed at all, of you follow the logic of the Jesus story and its mythos. The narrative difference keeps the muddy boots from stomping around the house.
Demeter and Arta show child sacrifice even in ancient Greece. In arta, the same story of Jephta is retold, but Demeter is special: when she searches for her daugther Persephone, she's invited be a King. There, she tries to save the King's son Demophon and wants to give him immortality - in burning him alive every night at the oven on the kitchen... This stor is one of the central stories of the Eleusynian mysteries. This story is probably braught to central Greece from Crete... not sooo far away from ancient Phoenicia
Also possibly relevant is how *old* the Eleusinian Mysteries are. There's a theory that Kore used to be a nigh-supreme cthonic goddess before the Mycanean era got to her. There's plenty of possibility that there's a connection occurring during the Minoan era, but we have nothing to really go off evidentially.
Man, why can't it ever be ancient evil? It's always some scholarly explanation.
Because if academics permitted themselves to ponder the possibility, then they would have to face the fact that the people who run the universities who fund them, the publishing houses who print their works, as well as politics, banking and the media are the same people doing this. After which, they would have to confront that fact that they themselves are the useful idiots propagating their lies and indirectly harming humanity.
So it's just easier for them to do the mental gymnastics and tell themselves that iT wAs AlL a DrEaM...
Hey Justin! Just realised I never mentioned this. I’m writing a comic book within which I wanna include lots of world mythology and esoteric/occult inspiration. Your videos are not only a treasure trove for such inspiration, but really opened my eyes to the ways people have studied and perceived occult practised throughout the ages. Thank you so much for your hard work! Hopefully I’ll get to show you mine someday!!
I'm writing poetry, touching on these subjects....my friends are creating the music too.
We will look for visual art to complete the collaboration..... Good luck
Excellently constructed.
What about the connection of Solomon to Moloch in 1 Kings 11? It’s probably just a scribal mistake. In verse 5 we correctly have:
וילך שלמה אחרי עשתרת אלהי צדנים ואחרי מלכם שקץ עמנים
Solomon followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Phoenicians, and Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
Then in verse 7
אז יבנה שלמה במה לכמוש שקץ מואב בהר אשר על־פני ירושל͏ם ולמלך שקץ בני עמון
At that time, Solomon built a shrine for Chemosh the abomination of Moab on the hill near Jerusalem, and one for Molech the abomination of the Ammonites.
There it's probable that the sofit mem of Milcom was dropped thus transforming that Kaf into a sofit Kaf and pointed to read “molech.” However, Molech was probably not a god, much less the god of the Ammonites. Milcom was, as correctly noted in verse 5.
That's troubling and intriguing and fascinating.
I don't have a hebrew character keyboard. So I have to go phonetically. Does "Molech" share an etymological root with "milchamah," War? (note to others - Hebrew letters are largely consonants, the vowels are little symbols under and next to the letters.)
@@mommachupacabra I don't think so
מלחמה = שורש ל-ח-מ
מולך = שורש מ.ל.כ
When you asked to put a pin on the idea that first born sacrifice could erase one's sins I actually let our a mildly horrified "oh". There's something shocking in realizing the sacrifice for humanity thing is following a tradition of real child murder.
It’s funny how the Christian religion is founded on human sacrifice by crucifixion, but the concept is so offensive to us now that most Christians deny it.
Similar to our tradition where we transfer our sins into a chicken by sacrificing it
@@MamA-jp9bu Except, from a Christian perspective, instead of a chicken, it's literally God.
Theology's weird, man.
@@anglerfish4161 Didn't we also cause the crucifixion of Yeshua.
@@MamA-jp9bu Who's we? Because that was actually the Romans. They clearly executed Jesus for the crime of inciting an insurrection. The word they used has been mistranslated as thief, it actually meant something more like rebel leader, and it explains their "the king of the jews" thing. The story was rewritten afterwards by Paul when he took over the cult and pivoted to converting Romans instead of Jews. He chose to throw the Jews under the bus and have them take the blame because it gave him a greater potential market for converts. Cynical, but it worked- I'm not sure Christianity would still exist today if it had stayed a Jewish movement and not ended up being embraced by the Roman empire. And the poor innocent Jews have suffered all over the world ever since. It's pretty depressing.
ESOTERICA! Literally every one of the last 10 videos have been things I've been wanting to learn more about in the last few months. Thank You for what you do and keep on doing it, whatever it is!
"There is only one thing worse than human sacrifice..."
*gasp*
"A child!"
Fantastic video as always! such a broad subject i would obviously love a sequel, perhaps addressing David maybe sacrificing his son for the killing his wife's previous husband the hittite, the foundational sacrifice of the rebuilding of Jericho, the valley of hinnom in greater detail, etc. would also love a video on holy / temple prostitution as a practice! keep up the great work
Amazing video Dr. Sledge! ❤
Folks check out this fine channel!
@@TheEsotericaChannel I'm a subscriber of both. Thank you for all your work, both of you!
Moloch are the friends we made along the way
Actually, in a way, yes. Rant incoming. If you consider a dualistic argument of guns and wars being the friends of this ilk. Checks out, too.
@@114Mwaaaaaaaaaaah the friends called guns in school and wars fought by infantry abroad?
Moloch are the friends we sacrificed along the way.
Moloch are between the buried and me.
Friends are the best!
You have a wonderfully eccentric sense of humor, which is refreshing for dealing with such a grim topic.
Moloch Moproblems
@@alexkiddonen A Diddy based reference is highly appropriate in this instance 🤣
Dude your channel exploded. I remember watching your YHWH video last year and to see how much your subscriptions have grown is wild. You deserve the success
My first memory is playing the part of issac in “the binding of Issac” when my dad was a Sunday school teacher…..
Thanks!
Had a couple of unrelated thoughts about this one (or at least, I don't see a relationship between them).
One had to do with the prophets arguing "Child sacrifice is a foreign rite inappropriate to the worship of ha-Shem" -- instead of the (admittedly better) argument "Child sacrifice is _very evil, holy crap stop sacrificing children."_ To be fair to them, I feel like it's at least possible that, when we're talking about an individual or society with a conscience warped enough to even think about sacrificing children, they may be too far gone for the better argument to mean anything them. If so, appealing to nationalist pride might be the only _effective_ way to get the individual or society in question to cut that shit out.
The other had to do with the closing bit about the influence of the firstborn-son-sacrifice concept in Christianity. There is no question that influence of that kind exists, especially in evangelical circles; the "penal substitution" doctrine of the atonement almost literally and directly _is_ that. And it's not made of whole cloth. Even on the most generous interpretation, there are passages in the New Testament that permit that kind of reading (maybe they don't _demand_ it, but they permit it). To me, this makes it rather striking that the first several centuries of Christian theology about the atonement are dominated not by this view of it, but by two other ideas:
1. The "ransom theory": this understands Christ's death, while quite real, as something almost like a "feint"; he fools Satan into snatching something he could not keep (Christ), and in so doing, losing his hold on humanity. (Why this would make Satan lose his hold on humanity doesn't always get answered, but based on what I've read, the answer often has to do with idea #2 here.)
2. The "recapitulation theory": this builds on New Testament, specifically Pauline, language that Christ is the "new Adam," and that he divinizes mankind by succeeding where the "old Adam" failed. (This second theory is imo also rather interesting in that it would seem to fulfill, of all things, _the serpent's_ promise that by eating of the forbidden tree men would "be like God, knowing good and evil").
I admit, I'm not altogether sure what conclusion to draw from the early Church's (relative) de-emphasis of penal-substitutionary imagery/doctrine in favor of ransoming and recapitulatory imagery/doctrine. But it seems like an interesting aspect of theological history.
Great comment
But there's zero indication that they objected to child sacrifice on ethical grounds. And those biblical texts don't hold back on telling the reader what god is against.
Actually it's a repeated theme that prophets are compelled to speak out unpopular things Yahwe wants to push through.
@@MrCmon113 I think "zero indication" is a _little_ harsh. I mean, the books in question do say things like "which I did not command, nor did it enter My mind": whether we take that as written in good faith (so to speak) or not, it seems designed to _sound_ ethical. But the uncertainty is why I wrote things in terms of "it's possible"; I know people sometimes say things like that as something like sarcasm or just to cover their asses, but I meant the phrase quite literally.
Given the death rate of children under 5 in those times, it might be worth considering that these sacrifices might be a way of honoring/disposing of children's bodies.
I was kind of thinking that, too.
Could be, but I would also not put it past the ancients to murder children for that.
When you look at the texts from that time, women and children were property rather than people of their own. So, both is possible.
What? Why then wasn’t it recorded that way?
Ah yes the classic 2024 take 😅
@@JustSumGuy it's not just a take, it's one of the arguments put forward in Carthage: A History; the write-up of Serge Lancel's excavations at Carthage(or at least: the 2012 edition of it. Further excavation may have clarified the issue and I've just not read the reports).
To be clear: his team/the team following him after his death did NOT argue it's DEFINITELY that, but they did argue its a possibility we can't rule out, that there's no definitive evidence of deliberate sacrifice of live and healthy children, that many of the infant bones found show signs of disease, and that the tophets are associated with civic cemeteries(so: possibly are civic crematoria).
It's unfortunate that the Romans destroyed so much of the old city, and the Phoenicians' own records throughout their cities, or we might be able to answer the question definitively; as it stands, the only historical sources we have on their society are from VERY hostile witnesses like the Romans and YHWH cult.
Ezekiel was my favorite book of the Bible when I read it. You can always count on him to turn everything up to 11 😂
This was an incredible episode (as always). Especially the mic drop at the end. If I go Jungian a moment, it’s like somehow in the collective unconscious there was guilt about the whole sacrificing kids thing deep in the shadow. So it needed to all be *for* something. And what more altruistic cause could be found than literally washing away all of humankind’s sins? Super fascinating.
9:45 i found some denotations of Baal with a definite ה in Melachim and once in Shoftim 6, 32. There are some mentions of Baal with ה that might refer to its stages, altars and priests, but in melachim you also have direct reference to it with ה.
Yep, it occurs but it's rare. Same with asherah
This channel is a never ending stream of good stuff! Great video!
This reminded me of the SCP article I have read titled "Tophet". It's about a Moloch idol with a furnace in it's belly that would talk through anomalous means. The idol would speak of a catastrophe that would take place, and would not stop unless a child would be burnt inside it. The kicker is that the offering must be made by the child's mother, must willingly sacrifice her child (not coerced or put under influence of any substance), and must have a loving relationship with the sacrificial child. It's one of the most horrifying articles I have read in the SCP website.
The death of all the first born of Egypt during the final plague in Exodus now takes on a new context watching this video. Ironic that the lamb's blood is what saves the Israelites (wonder if that's a later edit also). I wonder if the deaths of the Egyptian first born was actually a large scale sacrifice offering to Yahweh to free the Israelites from slavery something akin to the story of King Mesha. Brings a more sinister context to Exodus.
I need to do a deep dive on it because I am woefully behind in my understanding of Egyptian mythology. However, I've read that the Moses-esque story of rescuing a baby from a river is far older than the Biblical record of such an event. In other words, by the time the Israelites left Egypt, they may have glommed onto some of their lore and passed it down. There seems to be strong evidence that the people, who wrote Deuteronomy, bungled everything up because they didn't like the concept of Ashterah but the Old Restament still refers to "god" using plural terminology in a couple of places and there are several references to Greek mythology. Wouldn't surprise me if they did the same with the Egyptian story.
Every one of the plagues of Egypt was associated with one of the gods the Egyptians worshipped. Yahweh was showing that he was more powerful, for example, the Egyptians worshipped the Nile...it was turned to blood. Yahweh stuck the land with darkness that could be felt to mock their Sun god, but where the Israelites lived in Goshen, there was light.
I doubt the Egyptians or the israelites offered up the firstborn to Yahweh. For even among the houses of the Israelites didn't have the lamb's blood on the doorposts, their firstborn was struck down. Not all the children of Israel left in the Exodus, and there were many Egyptians who did leave with them.
Plot twist: The haulocost could have been a similar sacrifice. After which came large scale capitalism
@@stevenlee2484 Yes! I have wondered the same as well because the Nazis were very much into the occult and occultic practice --but I think that it was done more for increased knowledge and technology,
@stevenlee2484 I like the one where the austian artist was possessed by Oden.
Another excellent video by Dr. The Justin. I love your humor and I can not lie.
Neat to note that Nergal's legacy is now tied to Warhammer and Warhammer 40k as Nurgle. From what i can gather, Nurgle and Nergal have a lot of thematic and 'domain' overlap of conflict, disease, and death.
@@roys.1889 excuse me Dr. Sledge, what are the theological implications of the God Emperor and his sons, the Primarchs, waging war against and being turned on each other by the gods of Chaos?
Yup, catched it too. Now I wander what are reference gods for other three chaos powers.
It's nice to see a fellow lantern enthusiast here by the way
@@Earthshine256 I mean Warhammer is rife with mythological references. Khorne, the god of blood and murder, has a powerful servant named Khaine, whose name sounds like a famous prime murderer. The Primarchs are, of course, a gold mine of references, from the ones directly named after gods to the ones that less blatantly suggest ancient cultures. And this isn't even touching the names of various space marine chapters, as well as the slew of less relevant characters with names and purposes that point to our own ancient history.
@@Earthshine256 you have no idea how happy it makes me to see other people who know about the Mansus
I think of this every time a heretics screams "FOR THE GRANDFATHER" at me in Darktide.
I can't express how glad I am that you made a video on this. I grew up very Christian and heard stories of molach and hearing a more historical view on this is calming to the soul
Great episode on a tough subject. Thank you.
They've excavated some tophets & it seems they were specific burial sites for babies & very young children (under 2) that were cremated, put in urns often accompanied by a sacrifiicial lamb. It was difficult to get any DNA from the charred bone fragments but what they did get indicated the ages of the children & that it contained both boys & girls & some animal cremains. Child sacrifice probably did occur but it seems like a rare thing in times of extreme stress? And I doubt they were just hurling infants into an oven considering the importance of blood sacrifice in many of these cultures. Probably sacrificed similarly to a goat or sheep (slit throat) & then cremated very ritually. Accusing your enemies of killing/eating babies is very old & unfortunately still used & believed to demonize X group of outsider people today. (Satanic Panic) I haven't looked into it for a while, so new archaeological evidence *for* child sacrifice may have been uncovered recently.
A being so infamous he made it onto the cover of the 1st edition D&D Player's Handbook.
With the thief stealing his jewel eyes!
That's who it was? @TheEsotericaChannel
@@TheEsotericaChannel"Moloch walked through the wrong neighborhood"
@@TheEsotericaChannel can't have shit in Detroit
Do an episode on Golgothan!
Did you ever bump into the work of Robert Kerr while researching this? He's a friend of mine :)
bro uve lowk been my fav channel for like 2 years keep it up dawg
I wish I could somehow just siphon this man’s knowledge, so I could instantly share his deep understanding of the esoteric, history, language & religion. Sir you are amazing, thank you for the top tier content! Seriously one of the most underrated channels I am aware of, even with 720k subscribers 😊
Thanks
Great episode as always! One of my students and I were just discussing the derivation of Moloch/molk.
Note though that Korean Hangul is Phoenician-derived too as its core consonants were based on the ‘Phags-Pa script which was based on Tibetan which came from Brahmi, which came from early Aramaic, which came from Phoenician.
Wut
Ah, the wonders of linguistics.
@@likethemagician hi! can you give me some references on that? i study linguistics and i'd like to know more about tthis
Would love a video on Rudolf Steiner. As a former conflicted Waldorf school kid, your vids help me contextualise that community and by extension my early years.
In the top five esoterica episodes
Thank you for this great episode! I really love Stavrakopoulou and Levenson’s scholarship and will be sure to check out Dewrell as well.
Just came across a nice used Septuagint yesterday and will be delving into this whole fascinating issue of its’ pre-Masoretic sources and content.
Wow what an episode. Can you please dedicate an episode to Phoenicians? If they're the originators of the child sacrifice cult, then that would be an even more interesting topic than Israelite child sacrifice.
There is evidence of pre city communities devouring infants: especially their brains.
Ghouls.
This is such a better and more measured explanation of the scholarly conversation around this topic than the one we got from Dan McClellan recently. Thank you for going into the detail and being fair-minded about all the different interpretations. Excellent video!
Agreed it is just using common sense "Don't offer your children up for some type of "Molech" or child specific style or type of child sacrifice. So probably not to a demon.
I read the poem "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg for the first time like 12 years ago when I was about 20. In the poem Ginsberg repeats the word Moloch at least 10 times. I can't share any insight into how he uses it, a lot of that part of the poem went over my head. I'm going to have to go back and read the poem again now that I have this insight, maybe it will make more sense!
This absolutely blew my mind. I would love to know the origin of your translations, in particular Isaiah 30:33. The word "the Moloch" does not appear in most translations that I've found, but I have discovered that MLK often gets rendered as "king". Of course, I'm aware that translations are only as good as the biases of the translators will permit, so perhaps someone could enlighten me as to which version (DSS, MT, LXX, etc) is being used for this particular verse.
Yes, something more cheery next time, but the death metal and Lovecraft fan in me did find this episode particularly groovy. ;-)
You do a great job of mixing in light humor into discussion of a serious topic
The first time I heard about Moloch, at least that I remember, is the trivia section for the Elder Scrolls god Molag Bal and what inspired his name. The second part of his name being based on Baal but that is pretty self evident.
early tes lore is full of this dumb shit, but that's kind of the appeal about it, learning about it is much about learning it's history like learning about real religion is
Getting that mace was the easiest incredibly difficult thing I've ever done in a game
@@hive_indicator318 Was it due to a bug or because the priest spawned in one of the more difficult dungeons? XD
@@antonakesson the one in Skyrim, where you beat the immobilized guy to death
@@hive_indicator318 Oh so it was the moral part that you found hard. Beating a defenseless man to death, twice.
well done. That's a really good piece of work. Thank you.
In Montreal back in the 90s, outside St Laurent Metro Station, was a block of graffiti:
NEVERMIND THE MOLOCH
top tier punk
"Shocking Acts of Piety" no more accurate words for these turbulent times, thank you always for the incredibly important work you do🙏
Keep up the exceptional work, Dr Sledge 👏⚒️
I've listened to other scholars discuss this topic and read some of the literature as a consequence. This was a great summary.
The Isaac story kind of reminds me of the death of Iphigenia? Where originally she's killed but in a later story, Artemis spirits her away and replaces her the same way?
This is absolutely one of the most fascinating episodes you have ever done. Thank you as always.
I would definitely recommend adding rough timestamps to your videos. It would help a lot when re-watching
Even though I knew where this was going, how you tell the ending is artistically perfect.
I think I'm going to really enjoy this video.
@@Molech996 Moloch eres tu 😰😱
This was one of the most interesting things I've watched in a while as a history nerd. Thank you! Also, keep up the energy - it's contagious!
I like to keep a tab open to look up whatever books/other works you mention and pretend I'll read them eventually. Really cool stuff.
I have been looking forward to your delivering on this topic!
Thank you!
What about "Moloch" in Acts 7:43 where it seems to be associated with a god named "Rephan?"
The idea of Molekh being connected to a vow is so fascinating as it gives new context to the Hebrew bible’s “don’t go whoring after…” phrasing which now seems more apt as the vow relates to a transaction involving the sale of flesh
33:45 isaac being actually sacrificed by abraham blows my mind
I believe that human sacrifice began as a survival technique against starvation. They were, after all, sacrificing to the storm god during drought to bring on the rain. Even if it didn't rain, the result was less mouths to feed.
Never heard of Moloch before today. I watched earlier a short video about Moloch from Dan and now I see this one. Surely I have to watch it!
@@beatnrythm how have you never heard of it? Moloch is mentioned in the bible; Leviticus 18:21.
@@dietlindvonhohenwald448 I don’t pretend to know the entire bible and if at church they ever mentioned it clearly didn’t caught my attention enough to remember it.
Another banger, thanks Dr. Sledge!
Elites worship him. They are showing us often.
This is a similar practice by 18th and 19th century European magician ship pirates who buried their treasure and killed a slave over it to guard their treasure in the unseen world. Maybe the slaughtered/sacrificed child in the moloch ritual was to have the soul to serve them for what they wanted involving the god.
The term Tofet reminded me of tuhfah, the Urdu word meaning “gift” - borrowed from classical Persian of the same meaning which in turn comes from the Arabic for ‘masterwork’ or ‘rarity’. But that still hasnt gone back as far as the Hebrew, but i wonder if there is a link - perhaps the Arabic term comes from the Hebrew?
There is something disturbing about child sacrifices that cannot be found in any other forms of murder or rites. If we were to believe that ancient israelites performed such rituals even once, then we can assume that similarly to many other rituals these were also performed with great amount of music and dancing, and there is something truly disturbing about a group of people dancing and singing with religious joy to drown out the sound of burning infant. It's like hell being summoned to earth for a moment. Great video as always.
"My kids and my money go to MOLOCH"
Beats it going to some mega church.
@@Skibbityboo0580 Moloch pilled 😎
Ok while obvious in hindsight, the idea that the sacrifice of a first born male for the remission of sins is already part of Judaic culture at the supposed time of the crucifixion is extremely enlightening.
Imma say it frankly, the idea that the fulcrum of Christian faith has it's roots in a tradition of child sacrifice to Yahweh is not something that is talked about enough.
because it really doesn't. it's more about rebirth and self sacrifice. child sacrifice is more of a canaanite practice and has always been strongly condemned by christians. but go off.
@@ct-gt2dt The Jews are Canaanites. Sacrifice of first born males was part of Yahweh worship both before and after the Israelites split off from the rest of Canaanites society to go have their own little storm god cult in the mountains. Yes the practice was repudiated and forbidden after Josiah, which would have been unnecessary if it wasn't happening. The video covers this.
The point is that the god the Abrahamic faiths revere as ultimately wise had to change his mind about baby sacrifice, but only so much, since that's scheme he reverted back to when humanity's sins needed forgiven. Or at least, that's the story we're left with after early Christians clearly found themselves revisiting the theme after a very inconvenient crucifixion was found in need of an explanation.
@@ct-gt2dtIt’s not self sacrifice when you intentionally commit crimes to get yourself arrested on capital crimes. It’s auto-martyrdom.
I used to view Jesus being crucified as him simply dying for the sins of the humanity. Recently I’ve had my eyes opened to the child sacrifice connection. Israelites performed animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. At times there were human sacrifices.
What is more than an animal sacrifice? A first born sacrifice. What more than that? A king’s first born. What the ultimate sacrifice? A perfect sinless being that is the first born son of a virgin and God.
@@stevebollinger It sure highlights the danger of taking those ideas seriously. As he said, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do within the context of this worldview.
Ol Yahoo was certainly a product of his time.
Brilliant. I was just thinking of your channel this morning!
Great breakdown. 👏
There is nothing like sitting here, cleaning the dishes after yesterday's Christmas dinner, while listening to a sharp dressed dude talk about ancient child sacrifices. What a time to be.
Thank You !!! There are lots of similarities between this and the ancient Persian "Test of Fire". it is said that when zarathushtra was born and he was so illumined that the jealous sorcerers conencted his light to Ahriman (Devil). So they had to do the famous test on him, putting him in a godly fire and if he survived he is godly and if he burns he was Ahrimanic. same ritual was even used later in post-zarathushtra zoroastrianism. the fire test is also said to be done on Abraham in Quran as the fire did not burn him and turned into an orchard. Also the word Tophet is very similar to Persian "Tohfe" which is a very precious gift. It is used in a famous proverb in persian that when someone thinks very highly of themselves others will say that " He Thinks he is Tohfe" which in my opinion is very similar to the idea of the one (child) that is chosen to be sacrificed.
I love your work. Your videos are very well researched and well spoken. Please keep up your awesome work.
You really can interpret Jesus’ death as the ultimate suicide, the ultimate human sacrifice, the embodiment of what a “lawful” in the context of alignment charts character would do.