25:51Hey the laws getting misused by "disgruntled" Women is an actual occurrence. Entire family commits suicide cause of the social shaming faced by them due to fake charges. I think it deserved a little nuance rather than blatantly generalizing it.
@@aniora8658 Can you post a citation rather than this ambiguous "entire family commits suicide" claim? It sounds a little far fetched. This is an excerpt from Vox "More often, dowry related-abuses are filed under a law that prevents domestic abuse: in 2015, more than 113,000 women reported abuse by their husbands or in-laws, and 7,646 deaths were classified as related to dowry disputes. That is nearly 21 women killed every day by their husbands or in-laws because their families could not meet the dowry demands." Dowries are illegal in India. But families - including mine - still expect them. By Kavya Sukumar Feb 6, 2017, 8:00am EST
Rose’s point about rehabilitation being confused with reintegration into the harmed groups/relationships REALLY made everything click for me. I’ve always struggled to articulate that point to others holy shit
One big factor that you didn't touch in the video: The people who emigrated abroad have the idea of "India" stuck in their head as it was in the 90s. Its been over 20-25 years now. The "culture" and "traditions" that they have imparted to their children is 20-25 years old now. India itself has evolved. Of course they still carries regressive elements with them, but on the whole, the 50+ year olds that I see are way more progressive in India than the 50+ year olds I know who live abroad (anecdotal not empirical).
Another point: Structure. A high school incel is still "redeemable" because they have a clear, defined structure in their life. They go to school everyday, have opportunities to interact with people their age. regardless of their dating success. They have projects, homework, exams etc. But once they graduate, life is self-paced. Whether, they study further, job, run their own business, its all on their own terms. The opportunities to interact with people their own age plummet.
this is so real. i used to always attribute my parents conservatism to indian culture but being exposed to non diasporic indian culture via online creators and discussions and even news and data shows that my parents are just conservative cuz their connection to india is one from 30 years ago.
So real. My parents are in their 50s but we moved to the UK from India in 2002 when my parents were already in their 30s (I was 4). They grew up in a big city and we visit basically every year, so we're still very connected to India. It was bizarre to me to see how old fashioned the parents of the desi kids at my school were. Some of them wouldn't let their daughters wear shorts/skirts, not even in the house if a man was around. Meanwhile my female cousins in India wear shorts and stuff all the time, as do I. There was also the bizarre reality that the city I live in here in the UK with a population of 300k has more gurudwaras than the city my parents grew up in (population 8 million). Turns out the Sikhs in the UK didn't heed the fact that caste is supposed to be banned within the religion, and ban people from certain gurudwaras here depending on caste. I've heard about Sikh boys being bullied here because of caste. There are honour killings based on Sikh caste. This was so difficult for my mum to comprehend. We're Hindu but my mum's best friend growing up in India is Sikh. In her 32 years in India she had never even heard of the Sikh castes. There were only 2 gurudwaras in the city, one either side of the river, purely for ease of access. It wasn't caste-based at all.
The fact that not even 15 percent of Indian women are in work force, caste ,religion and racism towards north east indian ,are just add on the misery. Source for stats -Center for Monitoring the Indian Economy
that's also one of the reason. I travel from time to time and I find literally every country easy to get dates, except India. The main reason is women aren't in the workforce as much as even the countries that are worse developed than India. So a lot of men in work force find it hard to get dates which leads to inceldom (perhaps?). There might be cultural factors as well. But incels don't think too deep about that. Their logic is -> I don't get dates = women are chasing after chads. Not that women aren't even there to date someone lol.
@@youtubesucks2755I think another reason is lack of interaction from a young age between the genders, like my parents country had all girls schools and all boys schools from a young age and it’s easy to view the other sex as a different species and feel disallusioned and incel behaviour ensues. It’s not all of the factor but it may contribute??
women in India are expected to get an education so they have good credentials, which will make them look like ideal wife candidates. once they get married, they’re culturally forced out of their careers and into the life of housewife
@@itsanu1420 maybe a little bit but I never had problems with that outside of India. Even in India, I have had female friends but it's the lack of options once you move out of your parent's house. The ratio is in favor of women.
@@youtubesucks2755 the cultural factor is this: dating culture within India is very, very new. The reality is the vast majority of parents of current Gen Z had arranged marriages and expect their children to have the same. Here's an example - my aunt and uncle started to look for suitable guys to meet my cousin for arranged marriage meetings. My cousin then had to come clean and say that she had been in a relationship for 4 years. I come from a very progressive family by Indian standards, my cousin grew up in Goa, has been able to wear shorts her whole life, goes out clubbing, is even able to drink with family, even our grandparents. We are very much outliers and her parents definitely would be accepting, and in fact did despite him being from a different part of India and having a different cultural upbringing. Even still she felt the need to conceal her relationship from her parents until she had to reveal it. If you go to certain spots in cities you will see couples on dates who are very clearly doing so in secret. That's not because they're cheating, it's because their parents wouldn't approve. Anything that distracts from education is seen as negative in India. Children need to go to school and college, even extra-curriculars like sports are discouraged unless your family is financially secure enough to give you a backup plan. All your time should be spent studying, not wasting time dating. There's also the fact that if your marriage is not your first relationship, there's a chance you're no longer "pure" to prospective matches. Both parties are expected to be virgins until marriage, but of course for women that is harder to conceal in case they get pregnant etc. So men want access to women sexually, but most women are not willing to take that risk (as well as due to the fact that they just want to avoid creeps).
Haven't watched it yet but definitely will as soon as I get free time. I'm glad this topic is being taken up in Indian spheres. As an Indian living in India, I've seen a lot of incel and misogynistic behaviours and mindsets in my male classmates, and it never fails to make me feel even more scared and sickened.
Pls complain to your teacher or your parents...... Sadly these teenage men ( especially in this Alpha sigma society) are scary.... They all just blame women in everything. Let's be aware of our own surroundings....
@@Aradhaya45720 unfortunately it never goes far- but yea, you can try. indian society tends to allow such abuse to a certain point, cuz most think its just a small complaint or whatnot
Yes, good point! It starts as a 'harmless' joke, and I see that with my fellow high school classmates, but it really does affect your mind and get serious before long.
I will always love pointing out the absolute irony of incels using the “red pill” analogy since it’s from The Matrix, a movie famously made by two trans feminist sisters (the Wachowskis)
You said it first but I was thinking the exact same thing, elena! Sickening behavior on these dudes part but highly comical when you step back and think about the WACHOWSKI sisters, but that’s information that might take some light research which would take time away from the Incel of it all…😂🙄
True, but the Matrix doesn't belong to the Wachowskis. Just like Star Wars doesn't belong to George Lucas. They are pieces of public art. Sure, they brought it forth, and may 'own' it, but art belongs to anyone that wishes to interpret it in whatever form they choose. By the way, the Matrix was created when the Wachowskis were different people, and the concept originally comes from Alice in Wonderland.
@@trollking99 Its still funny though lol. Especially cause they wrote the original Matrix to be a trans allegory. There's a reason the red pill was red, when estrogen used to be coloured red...
This was incredibly eye opening. I noticed some similarities with Latin American incel culture. I'm Mexican and I've helped in raising my 13 year old nephew. The rise of the exposure to manosphere amongst teens/tweens has been concerning. Mexican culture, immigrant culture, and Chicano culture have been plagued with similar issues of colorism, familial preference for boys, and "traditional" masculinity. I'm concerned for the mental health of young brown boys. I'm also concerned for young brown girls and lgbt+ kids that have had contact with manosphere rhetoric. Femicide, homophobic violence, and human trafficking have always affected brown girls and lgbt+ people at higher rates. While there are overall cultural differences, a major marker of incel culture in Latin countries is the use of dark humor to spread ideas. Satire, dark comedy, and a "no one is safe" mentality is what defines a lot of Latin communities. Criticism is equated with sensitivity and the inability to take a joke. Its really difficult for women and lgbt+ people to speak up without backlash. Its even more difficult to seek justice from violence in traditional Mexican towns and immigrant communities. I don't have a conclusion or connecting thought, I just wanted to include observations.
Sounds like your nephew is lucky to have you! I hope he doesn't get swept up in it. My family is (mostly) white, and I know I worried for a while about my younger brothers falling into similar pitfalls, too. Thankfully, they're becoming very empathetic young men. I think a big part of that was not sugar coating certain issues at a fairly young age and keeping the door open for communication. Of course, every kid/teen is different and it sounds like you already have good instincts
the rise of the popularity of what you are afraid of even calling traditional masculinity is directly the result of the rise of very strict and authoritarian interpretations of feminism and gender theory. the actual academic content of those fields of inquiry are irrelevant to how regular people like parents and schoolteachers end up interpreting the mass media's trickle down of that ideology, and when the entire discussion is controlled and influenced by people who explicitly say they are biased against young boys and traditional masculinity, to such a degree that they are afraid of even giving it legitimacy outside of quotation marks, then you can't possible be surprised that young men are hostile to it and are rebelling against it.
@@Cheesemonk3h It’s almost as if the group of people (women, LGBTQ people) who are against this mainstream masculinity are the ones directly affected by it. Feminism is a reaction to centuries of sexism and patriarchy. Not the other way around.
i go to the same university as avaneesh and i was so shocked to see that it took them SO long to expel him (i CANNOT believe that he even got accepted in the first place). thank you for making this video and for sharing your perspective !!
I go to school with Avaneesh, have actually seen him irl and know a few people who have met him too, but he’s legitimately insane with both attempting to lie about who he is and then trying to grope girls on campus by bumping into them 😐 the fact his entire suite moved out when he moved in on campus too
What’s terrifying is that I recently watched this video on the r*pe culture in India, and everyone in this one village - women, teens and men - keep blaming the victim. Things need to change…
Link the video. Also what r u talking of rape culture dude. Like grow up. India do not promote or teach men to rape women. Otherwise you would have seen lots of attacks on foreign soil by Indians also. We have a severe problem of religious war. And that is a different discussion however if you don't know the history then don't just put lables.
@@ang4065 ruclips.net/video/Pgom8LRF8hQ/видео.htmlsi=Ly1Dx065F6p67BRR lol why are you in denial? This video itself was made by Indians trying to raise awareness.
@@ang4065 why are you in denial? 😂Even Indians say the same thing. You can look it up just by typing R*pe Culture India. The channel is called The Quint
@@favlam1408 Rape happens everywhere in this world. That means that you r also promoting it. I mean like you guys r grown adults and the funny thing is you guys r comparing different regions of the world that have different past and religious issues and political issues and r using a same lens for judgement. I mean it's like saying that all people in the world needs to be 6 feet tall and have sharp features. But how can you expect that for let's say Chinese, or Japanese or Koreans etc. It's funny.
i feel like the rise in popularity of the manosphere and/or being outwardly incel stems from insecurity in almost every single situation. if these guys had confidence they wouldn't need to be in these toxic communities. anyone out there with low self esteem, please don't go down a dark rabbit hole and try your best to remain a good person
The issue with being good is a lot of times people use it as a code to being useful. Many good people end up being used by many bad people. Don't be "good", don't be bad, be smart.
Insecurity is key for most successful businesses. It happens in the plastic surgery industry, skin care, fitness, dating, the manosphere, and many others (even with smartphone brands lmao). Making you insecure is extremely profitable and it shows that human rationality is a beautiful illusion since most people are emotionally driven (even if it's just initially). Nowadays it seems like we've lost our ability to improve through intelligence or common sense. If you want to get in shape, apparently you have to hate yourself and create a whole "villain" narrative since doing it just because it's the smart thing to do isn't enough. If your hand is burning, you don't pull it away because it's logical, you do it because you were too weak to avoid it on the first place, because you should be embarrassed, etc.
@@rutgerhauser2377 yeah i get what you mean and using "good person" is definitely a bad way for me to word it, i was trying to put things in simple terms but generally just meant it as try not to let bad experiences turn you into someone who puts someone else through what you went through. this cycle of abuse is very common and sad to see
It's also the echo chamber be cause people for some reason are so insecure about their world views the second someone is critical they loose their minds. That to me is a big problem. I think that's what leads to the incel extremism. They only hear one view point and the algorithms keep pushing that one view point on them.
@@rutgerhauser2377 wrong. You can be bad person but still be used. You know those people who can't say no to the boss, get angry and beat their kids or wife to feel themselves somehow powerful? They're being used but they're bad people. What you meant is lack of boundaries. You absolutely can be a good person but protect your personal boundaries. Not being able to say no and exploding with hate afterwards still makes you a bad person.
As a Bengali college dude living in America, I wouldn't have escaped from the incel rabbit hole if it weren't for the pandemic. It gave me an understanding about how horribly wrong and offensive the views that were ingrained into me by my family are and now I'm just working on fixing the root of my issues. I ended up meeting a few women who had crushes on me, one of them I went on a few dates with but I couldn't end up being official because the environment that I currently live in is more conservative which can cause serious strains. So yeah, Imma work on making some good ol' money just so I can move out and be more independent. I don't struggle with confidence as much as I used to (even though my insecurities can linger sometimes), but because of the fact that the family I'm surrounded by can affect my ability to get into my first relationship just means that I got to be financially independent first in order to have myself be ready for my very first relationship.
So they could only divide us into Stacys and Beckys? Did they forget about Stacy's Mom? Cuz we all know she's got it going on. Sorry I need jokes to get me through this
Thank you so much for making this! While I know you of course do not speak for all brown people by any means, your perspective is super important and your insight(and the insight of the creators you invited on) allows me to think through some of my subconscious bias on my own. This allows me to learn a little more about brown perspectives without having to burden my brown friends for their input on such serious issues that involve race. Sending peace and good vibes; have a great day!
Brown is a weird way to describe ethnicities, yknow that more than a hundred million Indians are not brown right? And I don't mean just different people within India (NE India for example) no even within Indian ethnicities there is so much diversity and just calling Indians ''Brown people'' is weird. Categorizing people in skin colors is very weird and doesn't make any sense Like what about Koreans, are they white? If we do go off skin color does a brown Indian have more in common with a Mexican compared to another Indian who is not brown? How about we stop with the skin color thing and focus on Nationalities and Ethnicities?
I used to be an incel. I was lucky that I had people in my life that helped me get out of that mindset, many of these incels don’t have a group and honestly it is no one’s job. I tried to help but their first step is to help themselves and leave their chamber…
@@arrow2380it depends on who you ask. It used to mean anyone who could not get a partner despite wanting and trying to get one. Then it became exclusively a gf. Some incels also would gatekeep the term if they didn't find you ugly enough. Now some people say it means anybody who hates women.
@@arrow2380an incel isn't just not having a gf. Men with gfs can be incels too. Incels are men who are Misogynistic and think they are superior and entitled to women. Plus if they used the language that the youtuber pointed out in the video then you are one. If you aren't resentful about being single or you don't think you are entitled to women then you aren't an incel
@@arrow2380not having a gf definitely does not make you an incel. It's ok to be single, the problem comes in when you attribute your single hood to your looks or the "wickedness of women". Focus on your wellbeing ❤
Be confident with your voice! Also stammers are cute imo, and they definitely don't detract from understanding what you're saying either. I hardly notice his anyway and can understand him perfectly fine! ❤❤❤
I am loving the brown people RUclips. I have watched so much white and black video essays. And loved them. Now I feel so happy to watch so much good brown people essays. I’m from India.
@@sammy57533 if you're asking this question, it's because you don't already know. And speaking as a pale American, it's not something I can easily answer either.
@@sammy57533 Becs of Intersectionality? Learning from many diverse people will help you understand a situation whit their perspective. And other identities are also effected by your race such as gender and or sexuality and vice verse. So if you watch essays from many different type of people you will have a better understatement of a topic. Also south Asians perspective seems to be left out of many discussion, intentionally or unintentionally.
i used to have a lot more patience and pity for incels when i was a teenage girl with little experience and a lot more energy. im tired rn lol, i dont have the bandwidth to be every losers patient teacher. its been 30 years bro you arent a child, fix your damn self. **edit** ITT: mad people upset that strangers dont have to be infinitely nice to them - especially when they treat those strangers as subhuman. read at your own risk uwu
@@Eternitygate empathy for men who keep wishing ill for women and want our rights to be taken away? Sorry I'm not ruining my health over people who want to inflict violence on me
@@Eternitygate i literally said i felt pity for them, its like the second word i used to describe my emotions. but that aside, do you believe empathy is not needed to pity someone?
This rise in incel culture online between men of color is just very mentally straining as someone who barely escaped the pipeline myself It's extremely easy to get caught in as a preteen/teen if you spend too long online and can be very hard to check yourself as you get older and stay in those spaces unless you find someone or something to pull yourself out of it. (It took my phone breaking mid quarantine causing me to be unable to talk online for me to break out of it) I wish the best for those who get caught in it at a younger age because that's not their fault most of the time but past like the age of 16-17 it's harder to feel for them
The algorithm is very insidious in this way. You click on one video and, all of a sudden, you get recommended dozens of videos that are designed to appeal to you
its interesting how so many men leave these commuities by just stopping looking at them. you are what you consume and consuming incel content is the same thing
This is pretty eye opening. I work in retail and sometimes customers get a little too personal with their lives sometimes (mainly around the holidays and complaining about family members to one of us when said person isn’t in earshot). Anyways, one time I was checking two Indian women out at the cash register. One of the women was on FaceTime with her husband who was in India trying to get him a gift but he didn’t seem to be engaging with her as much as she was trying to. Once the woman on the phone was gone, her sister went off and ranted about her sister and how she’s in a physically abusive relationship with her husband. She seemed mostly frustrated with her sister for not asking for help or leaving after her husband started hitting and cheating on her. What threw me off was the fact that she seemed more angry with her sister instead of the husband. She told me that her sister turned down a marriage arrangement to be with this piece of shit and kind of insinuated it was her fault for choosing him. I just tried to tell her to try making her sister feel safe in talking about her husband (and make it clear that even though she chose to marry him, it doesn’t mean she has to stand by that choice and that there was no shame in leaving) and maybe even use the love her sister has for her kids to get out of that situation (someone being abused is more capable of thinking about someone else’s safety than their own). I want to believe that somewhere in that anger she cares for her sister. But I think misogyny definitely played into how she viewed the situation. Still one of the strangest conversations I’ve had with a customer, but I could tell she was dealing with a lot. Now it kinda lives in the back of my mind rent free.
@@raghavnamasivayam5098no, Not at all! If that's the case then domestic violence is totally ok. Or your friend treating you badly is ok. Your partner beating you is ok... But we all know that's not true people choose the person because they love and think they are good people but if they turn out bad then the person who is cheating or beating is the wrong one. Because people like this portray a good image and then one day people caught them.
@@_butter.cup_ lol poor analogy you arent choosing anybody to steal unlike partners who you choose even though you know what you choose stop acting like a clown
Bro, your hair is so on point today! The curl definition, the frosted tips, damn! It looks really healthy too. Well done. As someone who also started to level up my hair skills, I know it takes work to get it that sleek and bouncy. Keep up the good work! You look great!
One of my close friends is south asian and he's incredibly lonely. However this is because his mum uses cultural norms to isolate him from anyone else. when we used to hang out she'd be constantly calling him and trying to force him back home, making him feel that her health and wellbeing is his responsibility. He can't move out and leave her, when he's married his wife will live with them. I think if he didn't have such a diverse friend group he would have easily fallen down the incel pipeline.
I definitely agree wholeheartedly with the ending parts. Don't let anyone get away with bullying or abusing you. I know it might be hard to deal with, but it's surely better than letting them get away with it!
Momma, I made it! I think Indian culture doesn't accommodate differences or child upbringing well. No one's there to guide you or provide any feedback if you're an Indian incel growing up and trying to court a potential partner in India, etc. If you don't buy into the patriarchy or mysoginistic pop culture as a consumer to at least some degree, there's next to no experiential overlap with other men or women in India societies. It could mean instant rejections out of non conformity owing to no actual character faults per se. Not to mention its a system where women traditionally have little recourse or a voice at all despite modernity. I'd say growing up with a diverse set of folks is a remedy to a lot of this, but there's some more to it.
I grew up with a diverse set of people. My parents are quite liberal and made sure I understand and accept people with different races or sexualities Doesn't really help when no woman's ever been attracted to you tho
@@painunending4610 I'd say work environments or hobby groups are a potential solution. With work, it varies greatly though. It's not always appropriate, especially if you're not on friendly terms already.
@@PHlopheIg I’ll share. My cat is oddly interested in cooking. Whenever someone is in the kitchen cooking my cat will go on top of the Fridge and stare at whatever’s being cooked. It was almost as if the cat was studying how to work. Edit: how to cook*
@@opheila-.2029 That's counter productive. If no woman is attracted to you, and I mean no woman, no matter what you do, there are only a certain amount of options that remain, none of which being normal relationships.
i was stalked for two ywars in high school by an incel. He was in one of my classes. He knew my entire class schedule. There was one time he told me I had to go on a date with him because he knew where I lived and told me my address. I did not go on a date with him but when I reported him to school administration, they told me there was nothing theh could do because he was autistic (barring the fact that I am also autistic.) He ended up following me home and I had to lock the doors and wait for my mom to come home for him to leave.
School officials can very much do things to discipline and address issues caused by students with autism. Autism doesn't prevent parent teacher conferences or the like.
You wish incels hated women so you can have an 'excuse' to talk down upon them. If you actually speak to them, only 1 in 10 will actually say they dislike women. All of them are extremely sympathetic.
@@icantseethe7680I'm not an incel but am blackpilled. I definitely don't hate women, I just understand the differences between our genders and how society is now much more skewed towards benefitting them, on the short-term at least. I don't see how anyone can look at dating statistics now and not be concerned, it's just denying reality. If they did research instead of virtue signaling, they'll understand what us men are going through. That denial of reality makes me have no hope for the future.
@@AM-cm2kj To sort of help their case, I’s say incels can start looking into ugly/obese chicks without making it seem like they’re fetishizing them. Then women in their 30’s, then moneymaxx single moms, then passport bro foreign countries, (yea you’re creating ER’s but if you have a daughter not a son you basically won). That’s essentially the pecking order when it comes to women.
@@icantseethe7680 A lot of incels might not realize that they hate women, but they do! You’re a good example of it. You literally just ranked women based on your view of what they are worth, which is misogynistic as hell. That IS what people are referring to when they say incels hate women. It’s clear in everything you say, no matter how much you protest.
@@beehivebat4766 Its not my ranking. You’re assuming that the mere statement that women of certain circumstances can be mote or less attractive via “ranking” is mysoginistic. Well, is ranking men based of height, wealth or income misandrist? No? Why not? Its not “ranking”. And if someone says I Don’t hate women or I’m not racist why would you even bother contesting them? You can’t control people’s thoughts or feelings. That itself is toxic.
i almost started on the incel pipeline in middle school and i’m so grateful that i learned what an incel was when i did, because the idea of being one scared the shit out of me. the main thing i didn’t want to do was disappoint my parents, especially my mom, because the way that incels think goes against everything my parents have taught me. either way, great video saji! keep it up
"Considered" is far from any functional hinderance. Those are just pathetic "alpha males" pretending as though there's such a thing as an unattractive (net) woman. 90%+ of single men would date a woman more than 30 years older than him. Ask any random guy. You'd hear the same thing. Actual alpha males in the wild, do things a bit differently. Ask sir David Attenborough.
Well. Taking in consideration of women choosing men who earn more than them during marriages . Why will any man who has worked his @$$ off in his 20's will want to marry a women who is off his age or maybe older. Infact most women want older men and men want younger. In india when a women is in 30's needs men who is elder than her which automatically deminishes her prospects as most men are married after 32 . And don't get me wrong women in their 30's will have a high boducount which is absolute no no for most indian men leave alone the fact that after few years women in their 30's have more problems related to miscarriage.
I do think the Manosphere, at least from the outside looking in, strikes me as toxic nearly from the start. (And I say nearly, because when the first incel group was formed, it was formed by a *woman* who could not find companionship, and she wanted online friends, if nothing else was working. And that lasted about a year...until a group of bitter misogynists moved in, and took over.) And I think it's not just obvious awful people rising to the bottom, like Andrew Tate, but some of the basic precepts. The first thing to say is "Oh, all women are superficial and looking for tons of baby daddies", which is pointing out while claiming no fault. And that's not great, blaming and distinctly Othering an entire gender. But at this point those statements are almost ALWAYS followed by the Chad hatred--"Oh, I can't get dates because my chin is weak/my cheekbones aren't sharp enough//I'm not over six feet tall/my eyes are too far apart (or close together, I've heard both)". And all of that? All of that is self-hatred--with genetics the culprit. And that is a cultural worm that burrows, and burrows deep. A man can do superficial things--changing hairstyle, upgrading wardrobe, working out, whatever--but that's leaving the base substrate alone. A man can't do much about height, eye spacing, jaw line--those are all genetic. They're setting themselves up to fail, and each failure makes them more bitter, more sad, more angry.
I often wonder what a “traditional” 1950s man would say if he watched a looksmaxxing videos, while reading the subsequent comments from men and boys in the comment section. . The more “traditional “ these boys have become - the obsession with appearance has also risen. They are also extremely catty toward good lucking guys as well. Sadly this phenomenon can never go back into the box. Once a demographic or generation starts focusing on their appearance and the current beauty standards - it will never stop. Some of it is a misguided understanding of evolution and animal behaviors.
@@carrington2949 See the behavior isn't inherently toxic though, it's toxic because it's expressed through a toxic mindset. Someone, man or woman, engaging in working on how they look as a form of individual self expression is fine. But when done in a toxic mindset it itself can be a form of self harm. Think of it like buying clothes you like because your last favorite shirt ripped vs a shopping addiction, working out for fun and health vs doing it because you're compelled by body dysmorphia, etc. The underlying dysmorphia is the issue, not the "looksmaxxing". Guys can want to look pretty too, but there's a risk for men who lack a healthy relationship with their own self-image.
It's interesting to me because you can outline to some of them how the problem lies in patriarchy, but they are... unwilling or unable to understand that liberation does not come from dominating others or otherwise serving the needs of patriarchy. Like they know they're in pain, but they would rather feel that pain than the alternative because the alternative is too scary for them.
@@fluidthought42 I agree wholeheartedly. The comment section of these videos remind me of the extreme skinsporation posts on Tumbler and IG from my childhood mixed with a heavy dose of eugenics ideals thrown in to justify the toxic thinking. It is somewhat dystopian.
How is no woman ever finding me attractive 'setting myself up for failure'? Have you ever actually sat down, talked TO, and listened to a romantically unsuccessful man? Would you want to? I'm open to a conversation if you want to know more about what it's like (most people don't want to know what it's like)
"Currycel" and "ricecel" are generally self given terms. Its common for incels to give themselves disparaging names like this based upon what perceived weakness they have such as "shortcel", "mentalcel", "voicecel" etc. Overall a pretty sloppy and inaccurate video, can't say I got much out of it. 👍
While the advice for women dealing with incels was good, I’ll admit that I found this video lacking in advice for men at risk of falling into inceldom. The analysis of Avaneesh and Indians in the incel hierarchy was quite fascinating. But when the discussion of rehabilitation came up towards the end of the video, I found myself asking “how do we stop these young men from turning out this way in the first place”. Because the root of inceldom is loneliness. And while empathy with their situation is nice, it simply isn’t enough without actionable advice. Incels look at women showing empathy toward them as pity, which they’ll interpret as a reinforcement of their hopeless existence. We need to give these men something more. How do men navigate the modern dating landscape? How should men approach talking to and getting to know women? How does a man meet more women period? These are important questions to answer, because men flock toward incel communities believing that nobody else has those answers. The best (and really, only) way to turn an incel away from that ideology is to make them believe they can change their situation.
That sounds like you are blaming others for your personal issues. I went down the self-help path to improve myself, so I could be more confident, but all I found was generic advice I could have found in any book and a bunch of charlatans trying to sell me more generic crap. In my self-help journey, it didn't make me feel better about myself, it just made me compare myself to more successful people, which was depressing. The manosphere just enables incel's self-hate, hate of women, hate of competing men, and promotes more chronic online behavior. Hookup culture has nothing to do with my dating experience, those type of folks stick with their own kind if you are upfront about being monogamous and into long term relationships. The more you date, and learn about yourself in your preferences and boundaries, you can weed out folks with red flags who will cause you problems. @@Mr.MReturns
I was in therapy for a year, and it helped me to see my issues and taught me to get out of my comfort zone to have a better life. I love my friends, I hang out with them on the weekends, and we talk about all sorts of personal things, it's cathartic. We go out to bars, public events, museums, live music, or hang out at one of our apartments, it's wonderful. Life starts outside your comfort zone. Doom and gloom is bullshit, the real world is so much more fun! @@Mr.MReturns
People become in/cel in the ideological sense because the opposition has nothing to offer. What, are you going to tell men that they just need to be confident and get out there? What do you think brought them online in the first place? You don't just live a fulfilled and social life and then magically get attracted to in/cel spaces. You get hurt and rejected multiple times before you realize something. It's like burning your hand on a stove, at some time you will realize, that the stove is hot. If you are rejected by women and blamed for that rejection by people online and by your own family and parents, what are you going to do? You'll try to fix things, that's where redpill comes in, you will be more willing to accept women care about things you can change than things you can't. It is only when you have changed the things withing your control, that you realize what is actually happening, which is the blackpill. The blackpill, in short, ways that thr most important things in life are the ones you cannot change. Family, country of origin, time of birth, economic situation, your looks including your height and facial bone structure. From general empirical evidence we can assume, that come to attractiveness we observe a bell curve. Many average people, few ugly, few attractive. In/cels make up a minority of the population. If you see men from your family being "ugly" then you're just being judgmental the majority of men can't be below average because it defeats the very meaning of the word average. Thus putting things together there will simply be men who can have all the "good personality" or whatever else you want, they won't find a woman in a dating world that is solely based on physical attractiveness. The blackpill is simply right.
@@Mr.MReturns since the video deals with indian/south asian incels... is there pressure to quickly lose virginity in the west?? Is this pressure more for men?? In India being a virgin till mid/even late 20s is no big deal at all. I only lost mine at 26 when i married. This is why i find the incel phenomenon odd.
As an Indian girl. I would personally never ever marry into whatever tf these guys think of women's place in a household after marriage. I would much rather stay single forever if that was my only other option.
@@Aayushjha-pc2ee lol I'm single and not at all lonely. I'm much happier now than when I was dating a guy so keep your advice to yourself. Thank you very much.
The men's rights movements in India is correct to a certain, they aren't all against the provisions for womens rights and protection but they want it to be more thorough as there have been many cases of abuse of such laws without any repercussion. Not only that the recent revision of laws by the looks of it seems to have no punishment for se*ual abuse of men.
I've found the easiest way to find someone for yourself is to figure out what you're looking for in a partner that goes beyond superficially driven desires. If all you can obsess over is how a person looks, it's going to lead you towards toxic or unsavory people. All people are beautiful if you know how to look beyond the skin. 💞💫🔥❤️🔥🔥💫💞
NEW SAJI VIDEO!! I absolutely adore these kinds of deep dives with the mix of comedy and informative commentary - it is my top tier of content preference 🎊🎉 I do also appreciate you pointing out the line between comedy regardless of intentions when it comes to deeper topics that require more serious conversations
Coming from a woman who dated all races of men. She is explaining as if white men can't be misogynists. To my personal experience, I have seen some white men to be extremely toxic, insecure and misogynistic, more than many Indian/Mexican men. Yet some non-white girl still obsess over them. On the other hand, I have found Indian men to be very romantic, sweet and caring. This is a very well known fact that many non-white women who were brought up in the west have a strange infatuation (fetish?) regarding white men and their physical beauty. Most likely due to media representation, Euro-centric beauty standards, internalized racism and colonial hiccups. Also I am very curious if she ever dated any non-white men before. Lol.
dude, I’m dominican and puerto rican, I don’t look south asian in the slightest, and even I get called baljeet just because I’m brown, it’s like the universally applicable label that white people use towards brown people
But all of americas used to be called "Indians" so technically Gringos are not off base. Personally i would make the difference as hair line alone clues me in as to whether you are a Kamaljeet , Gangandeep or Rigoberto .My sister is married to a LatinX , he is part DR and part caucasian .He literally looks entirely LatinX and is very strong. It must be the Mufongo de platano
@@PHlophe there’s no rationalizing it, it’s pure ignorance, and that was centuries ago anyways. These are Americans from the 20th century calling every brown person baljeet
incredible video!!! i really appreciate that you had women to talk about a gendered issue and the conversation/interview format was really interesting :)
bro as an indian i dated even white girls. i am born in uk and moved to usa and they love my british accent, currently in a relationship with a white girl and i am not even tall@@schrodinger_kot
There is a difference between being lonely and being alone. I'm glad I have gotten comfortable with myself and am happy being alone. Finally got here and I'm almost 30 so it takes time, yes I was an incel at one point in time I'm not proud of it but I'm no longer in that mindset and I gotta say it's wonderful. Stay strong, get offline, go to the gym, and just focus on you stop blaming others for your failures. 😎💪❤️
@@icantseethe7680 You are right and wrong with this comment. I haven't lost the desire to be with someone I just know and understand how the "dating market" is right now. Let's just say not good I ain't into the hookup culture. Plus I just wanna focus on me for once in my life, finally get in shape and feel proud of myself for the first time ever.
Fellow South Asian diaspora kid here, everything you, Yusra and Ro said is true about growing up as a brown boy with immigrant parents. It's taken me over a decade to deprogram a lot of this shit, even though I never fell into inc*ldom. I might be an asexual mid-30-something who isn't married, but discovering and embracing myself over time has been healing. I hope more fellow South Asian people watch this video and engage in more self-reflection, and have these tough conversations within the diaspora + across generations. It's badly needed. Good on you for posting this. P.S. You had 1,776 comments at the time I'm writing this, hope this fixes it. ;)
i know you didn’t ask for advice so by all means ignore me if you don’t care. but i’ve had a similar problem with filler words my entire life and my solution was to literally say nothing. i would stop in the middle of my sentence and figure out what i was trying to say, then continue as if nothing happened. it helped with not saying like/uh as much, but it also helped me get better at efficiently articulating my thoughts. it’s not a sign of poor intelligence or even poor communication skills to take a moment and remember wtf you’re talking about LOL just some advice from somebody who’s dealing with a similar situation
As someone who literally broke up with this misogynist man / abuser And I can’t tell u how sad I feel for myself knowing now that I was being trapped/gaslight I have faith and I believe god save from this man and I can’t describe the amount of relief I felt the whole day Just knowing your worth is the most valuable thing in life and that’s what I learn.
15:32 becky was a term black Americans have been using since the 90s (that ive seen) to describe a woman of European descent. Much like woke (Garveyite), got co-opt'd and bastardized. Like the manosphere, hell even the ados movement.
most of them, almost all of them are native indians. i noticed that the indians who grew up in the west etc are more mature , knowledgeable and less problematic tbh. it's the environment you grow up in 🤷♀
Inceldom is one of the most disheartening and terrifying spheres of self-fulfilling prophecy. You could present as the most interesting beautiful man, but as soon as you start letting some incel-like rhetoric slip? It's over. You feel rejected by women so you blame them, but if you blame them they won't want to date you. Such a sad cycle of abuse. Otherwise - this is the first time I have seen you and your content! I hope this continues to get pushed; I am looking for ward to seeing more :)
Do you see your errors in thinking. First you presuppose an attractive dude to be an in/cel which is about as likely as a hurricanes rummaging a junkyard and in the process a fully functional Boing is assembled. Not gonna happen. Then you suppose in/cels don't limit their ideologically influenced language to the online world but instead talk like that to everyone - which is not the case. The real logic circle is: You ARE rejected by women - you try to change - you are still rejected by women - you try to change - you are still rejected by women. You want to date women but women don't want to date you, not because they are somehow trained in the arts of reading your mind, but because you are ugly. And that won't change. That is the only constant here. Your opinion of women changes in life, but their opinion on you have always been the same, which is that you're ugly.
Have you ever actually talked TO incels? I mean don't observe or talk AT them, but actually asked questions and listen to what they say? Most incels are self-aware enough to know NEVER EVER let anyone know that you're unattractive. They know to keep a tight lid on any incel rhetoric because they know it's a social death sentence. It's the whole point of why they have their own forums and sites, because they know they can't share or express anywhere else We are fully aware of the disdain people have for romantically unsuccessful men. We know about it and we know not to share it because it isn't received well
If I remember correctly that dude who became the face and body of the gigachad is actually a very humble and down to earth fitness trainer. I think I read that he’s actually very self conscious about his looks and never viewed himself as the hottest guy and does not like that his face and body are being used in such a way. I could be completely off because who knows what is real on the internet anymore. I think the guy is from some Eastern European country and has no social media or online presence.
@@sangheiliwarrior86 cool I knew it was something weird about it. He is a good looking guy based on the few real pics of him if your into that sort of thing, but his personality couldn’t be farther from that of the redpillers
@@aar0n709 I thought it was this dude “GigaChad” (also known as “Average Enjoyer”) is Russian menswear model and bodybuilder Ernest Khalimov. Edit: I looked it up more and that’s so crazy. It’s like some Momo shit. lol. All these fools running around wanting to look like a transformer. 😂
Can you please make a video about Indian gym culture?? As a gym rat and employee I’ve noticed the gym culture is huge but also different from anything I’ve seen. It’s very prominent in social media. I’m fascinated.
As many Indian people I've met and graduating from a University with East Asians taking the majority of international students. I didn't even know they were seen as undesirable or as creeps. Glad you brought up the topic. They only told me about their culture in India
why are people utilising the word incel interchangeably with misogynist/ reactionary when incel merely means involuntarily celibate lol at least do your due diligence before conveying a word
the red pill definition shocked me i didn't know that was so serious. do they not know we are a patriarchal society historically, western society has been patriarchal for a good long bit of literal human history from like, BCE. you can't just say society is women centric as if it has ever been? 😭 bruh i need these men in school pls give them a basic history course
literature too. creation stories, especially currently prominent ones such as genesis, are literally all patriarchal. intro to literature class. PLEASE MAKE MEN GO TO AT LEAST TWO YEARS OF LIBERAL ARTS GEN EDS.
I remember explaining patriarchy to some commentors on another video and explaining to them how patriarchy subjugates both men and women. They then asked why the term patriarchy, when I pointed out the history of patriarchy they just sorta... well they were looking for a reason to reject the reasoning but they were just left with exposing themselves as biased against feminist thought or feminist analysis. At least for me it did help me develop a more holistic definition for patriarchy though. "Patriarchy is a system where people are expected to enable the domination of women by men or else be dominated themselves." It basically polices for adherence because if you step out of line and instead treat people as equals, that's a reason you ought to be "put into your place".
No amount of biologically occuring organic compounds can make you believe what you believe. Only formulations. Let that sink in. You really think 5000 years ago, in lawlessness, people really, ahem whatever (remove h, 1 e, and v).
Patriarchy and gynocentrism are mostly the same thing just viewed from a different angle: - men are expendable - men are supposed to be tough - men are supposed to work and fight - for these men are rewarded by women - women are supposed to be young, fertile and feminine - men work, take risks, and sacrifice to acquire access to women who are young, fertile and feminine - because men are strong, and take risks, and are ready to sacrifice, they are a threat - since men are a threat they are viewed with suspicion as a default - because men have to do all the work, they bear all responsibility - since women are weak they are protected and kept safe - since women are weak, they are not a threat, and so are not viewed by suspicion and met with skepticism, but are instead welcomed and helped - since women are protected and kept safe by men, the men get to make decisions, while women are disenfranchised (as are children, for mostly the same reasons) The word gynocentrism simply points out that the only reason men even get out of bed is to acquire women. "P*ssy makes the world go round." I know women might never truly understand this, but men do.
As someone whose feed has been flooded by incel grifters, I have a very long block list, it's easy to see how incels fall into it and this was a very balanced and insightful watch. Thank you for taking it seriously and going further than most commentary channels with the interviews etc.
Thank God. I am nowhere near as popular or liked as you to Finally talk about this subject. Please inform these clowns that they're going to have kids one day and leaving this crybaby shit on the internet is only hurting them. I subbed, hail to you champion!
Am I the only one who felt unsettled by the framing of this video's commentary and guest choice? Like ok, the topic is inceldom among Indian men. Saji says that the topic hits too close to home for him to be unbiased, so in order to "balance' things out, he brings on not one, but *two* women to contribute their insight. Moreover, Saji recuses himself from the discussion and plays the role of disaffected narrator throughout the video, leaving the commentary and analysis *solely* to the women who were invited to participate. So pretty much, in a video about male loneliness, Saji decided to not bring on any men to talk about it. Not to demean the guests at all, I think they had good things to say about the topic from a woman's perspective, but neither of them have personal experience with being a male incel or being allured by that ideology. Frankly, I think their perspective was quite limited - these women could only really speak on how they've been affected by incels while at best speculating why men turn into incels in the first place. For such a personal topic that deeply affects many men, this feels like an oddly distant, insensitive approach. Think about it - if this video were about rising female loneliness, don't you think it would be kinda weird if Saji brought on two men as the *only* guests to commentate what they think is going on with women? We all agree this would be pretty strange. Except Saji (and any other leftist video essayist) would *NEVER* make such a basic error in that scenario. The choice to omit analysis from a guy who has experienced these things firsthand feels like such an obvious missed opportunity that I'm tempted to call it virtue signaling, to be honest. Do you think the video wouldn't have been elevated by commentary from, say, a former Indian incel? Or was this a deliberate choice to avoid associating with the "wrong" group of people for fear of upsetting your audience? Even in lieu of a guest like that, I think it would have been AWESOME to hear Saji's personal experience as an Indian guy, whether or not he grappled with some of these ideas espoused by Indian incels, and if he didn't, then what he thinks saved him from falling down that rabbit hole. And that could be the starting point of a discussion on how we stop these young men from being drawn to incel ideology in the first place. I hope I'm making my point clear when I say the omission of an Indian male's perspective from this video was a HUGE missed opportunity, one that I cannot help but think was a deliberate optics choice. And honestly, I'm disappointed.
Yeah I think he could have done better with bringing more guys and showing their perspective. He brought up colorism but he didn’t talk about how brown girls can be colorist and white worshiping too sometimes. Incels do have legitimate grievances but it’s something that they should work on themselves
@@aniketpaharia6772 "Yeah I think he could have done better with bringing more guys" He didn't bring on ANY guys at all, that just doesn't sit right with me. Along with the colorism thing, there were other narrative "choices" in the video that were just downright questionable. Like when he said that the slur "currycel" was imposed by white incels. Idk what incel forums Saji has been on, but if you've been on one for 5 minutes, you'd know that incels of any kind LOVE to stratify and categorize themselves by race. Indian incels call themselves currycel. Asian incels call themselves ricecel. So on and so forth. Even white incels call themselves mayocel. This kind of behavior isn't just kowtowing to what white incels want - they are all choosing to identify themselves in this way. I don't necessarily know why, maybe it's an ingroup thing mixed with self hatred, but to say that it's just white incels perpetuating the use of these words is flat-out inaccurate.
@@fatcat22ableWell in order to get context he'd have to invite actual incels into the show, and as we know incels are looked down upon. I also find it interesting how people on the outside change the definitions in order to justify their points of view.
It's because he hates incels and doesn't want to talk to them. He sees romantically unsuccessful men as lesser than himself and doesn't want to hear what lesser people think or do
Being alone does not equal loneliness, and both can be good. Young men need to start understanding and learning from this. I say this as someone who ruined a lot of things with accidentally slipping into incel behavior despite the fact that i should've seen the signs especially considering my radical left stance on society and generally materialist analysis of society
I know this. Still doesn't stop me from wanting a relationship Do you know what it feels like when no one's ever been attracted to you? The fear and confusion. Would you like to know?
@@painunending4610 that's not my point, but desperation doesn't make you attractive. Not to mention that almost everyone underestimates themselves (including the people you may be attracted to) confidence is always the first and biggest step and the easiest way to gaining that is knowing your worth and knowing that whoever you're trying to talk to is a human just like you. Another tip: listen. you don't even need to talk, just listening is enough a lot of the time
I think this underestimates how profoundly alone these people are. When you haven’t talked to another person in months, when you haven’t looked at another person’s face for weeks, and when you’ve never had someone to relate to, being alone does make these people lonelier. Stoicism is just another branch of the manosphere these days, so isolation isn’t helping. Incels need in-person interaction with regular people
@@SpinningSideKick9000 sounds peaceful, hoping to get some sort of job where I can either work in a quiet room and git paid a lot, or work cozily from home while having the radio on, listening to whatever my tastes are that day. That’s the difference between desire and peace, I’ve made peace with the fact I’m probably not going to see a mini-me sludge through the hell-hole, and maybe I’ll die forgotten, or alone, but I’ll die peacefully and happily, probably playing vidya and watching cop shows like the olden days…. ❤🥲
@@Randomlad56 There are positives and negatives to isolation. Personally, I coped by basically using it as meditation time to learn about philosophy and Taoism. Unfortunately, though, running from fears doesn’t make them go away, It just builds the fear up in one’s mind
It’s always such a refreshing and insightful to watch your informative videos even if it requires more time! Thanks again for using your time to make this and inviting guests to bring more nuance to the topic I’m looking forward to your next video essay! :D
got beat here by the bots but got so excited to see a new upload. i've been binging all of saji's videos for a few days and this one was perfectly timed
Very well constructed video! I love the interviews as well, especially Ro's insight, I think she is such an amazing creator. Thanks for shedding light on this.
@@honkhonk5181 You forgot: Making a homophobic joke by implying guys who don't get women should just "become" gay and f each other is not homophobic if you are a left wing youtuber and if the joke is applied to a marginalized group. Yeah these people really don't make a lot of sense.
I see a lot of comments that are trying to disprove the existence of incels in India etc. but I think most people aren't getting that self-described currycels are usually Indian incels who are living in the west.
From a therapist's perspective, we often work with clients on "rehibilitation" (has many meanings) privately. These clients generally have not committed hate crimes but come to therapy due to depressive and anxiety symptoms. We often uncover toxic beliefs clients have about themselves and others. These beliefs can be safely challenged and worked on in therapy. Many clients, those that truly are working on themselves, can be rehabilitated and lead healthier and happier lives. Therapy can be life changing! Please do everything you can to reduce stigma related to therapy. If you feel comfortable disclosing to friends and family that you have been in therapy and found it valuable, it can help normalize it for everyone else. Thank you for helping to destigmatize therapy!
Been waiting for a deep dive on this since your last (unlisted) video. Very interesting, provides a more nuanced take that i think a topic of this complexity deserves. Good job :))
Back in the day of my peak Facebook trolling days I joined an "anti-feminist" group. This was before the term incel was even made. I thought it was a group that was against that weird, 3rd wave feminism trend we had going back then. Boy was I fucking wrong. Nothing but women hating weirdos. I had a field day fucking with them before I got kicked out. But my biggest take away from that group was how strange it was that most people in that group were Indian. I'd say more than half were of Indian descent.
Yeah, that's why I find it weird when this video states that the world of inceldom online is a white mans world. It's been the opposite in my view from what I've seen lurking incel subreddits and forums. Funnily enough, I've seen whites get attacked by the indian incels as being fake incels since they could easily get asian girls. So in that world where the more lower on the rung of attractiveness you are, and indian definitely is considered to be at the lowest, being an indian incel basically makes you king of the incels.
I think it's ironic how the most well known incels online or in media were either average looking dudes or even genuinely attractive people that were just horribly misguided.
@@Kojiguma That's why they make it into media. There's many in/cel channels online where the guy is just ugly. Of course it's not going to make it to the headlines if an ugly guy is an in/cel, that would prove our point, that it's not their mindset or personality but looks and looks alone.
@@Randomlad56 I agree with you but my comment wasn't really about the media and more so about how easily incel ideology can poison your brain no matter who you are or how you look.
@@j.d.s.8132It mostly their looks that are the issue. There are a lot of men that are handsome with a misogynistic mindset and don’t struggle to get women.
I really appreciate this deep dive and especially the look into the dynamics the “Manosphere”, though I do wish there was more of a look at how the biases within those spheres, especially the racism, carries over to LBGT+ individuals, especially POC transwomen there’s another sect of incels that chase trans people. And that’s not even going into the aggression towards fem-presenting people who are not attracted to men
perhaps a random comment, but as someone with low empathy who actively practices compassion in order to be a good person and feel for other people (and also someone who notices the pitfalls of empathy because of that), when we talk about people like this, if your (completely understandable) reaction is "ew, fuck them, they are disgusting and do so much harm to the world", i suggest sitting with that initial feeling and then trying to be compassionate instead of just letting your empathy do its thing. you are unlikely to feel empathetic towards these people and i think that's pretty normal. you can't really imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who is doing awful things or (depending on who you are) could do those awful things to you. but at the end of the day, like saji, yusra, and rose said, rehabilitation is both necessary and possible, yet we will never get there if we simply disregard the people who are in need of rehabilitation (and obviously that's always pretty shitty people anyone is unlikely to automatically feel for). and like i said, i think it's totally normal to not feel any empathy and any positive or even just neutral feelings towards shitty people, but having this objective concern for them (as human beings who could have been better people) and the way they affect the world (which i'm sure you already care about) is what could be placed at the centre of the conversation on rehabilitation without you having to either invalidate your own feelings in order to support rehabilitation or prioritise your feelings to the point that you don't care about rehabilitation anymore. (and just to make sure it's clear - i am talking about any group like this as a whole, not individuals who have harmed you specifically and who you have every right to not care for in any capacity and remove from your life entirely).
Thanks Opera for sponsoring this video! Download Opera for free using opr.as/01-Opera-Browser-SajiSharma
25:51Hey the laws getting misused by "disgruntled" Women is an actual occurrence. Entire family commits suicide cause of the social shaming faced by them due to fake charges. I think it deserved a little nuance rather than blatantly generalizing it.
@@aniora8658 Can you post a citation rather than this ambiguous "entire family commits suicide" claim? It sounds a little far fetched.
This is an excerpt from Vox
"More often, dowry related-abuses are filed under a law that prevents domestic abuse: in 2015, more than 113,000 women reported abuse by their husbands or in-laws, and 7,646 deaths were classified as related to dowry disputes. That is nearly 21 women killed every day by their husbands or in-laws because their families could not meet the dowry demands."
Dowries are illegal in India. But families - including mine - still expect them.
By Kavya Sukumar Feb 6, 2017, 8:00am EST
I was going to follow until I found out that you sold out to spyware Gx. Smh u should be ashamed
Most indian women don't work meaning they need to rely on their partners more. How can Indians be incels if they arranged marriages???
@@aniora8658 Got any sources on 'entire family commits suicide'
Because that's fucking ridiculous
Rose’s point about rehabilitation being confused with reintegration into the harmed groups/relationships REALLY made everything click for me. I’ve always struggled to articulate that point to others holy shit
Ro is one of the most brilliant people on RUclips, hope she has a long and successful career doing whatever makes her happy
I know!! I’m so glad they collaborated.
@ville__he’s literally made a video with colleen in it?? in what world would he support colleen lol
@@issalune It’s just a new f*cking annoying bot, I’ve seen this spam on multiple other youtubers’ accounts.
@@issalunethis guy is spamming this everywhere abt different youtubers he posted one on a gabi belle video as well
What is intelligent, repeating colorism, people of color, propaganda nonsense?
breeding ground for incels is my new favorite oxymoron
That's actually pretty funny
Let's keep the internet language and let's call it "incel spawn point"
@@w花b but then it's not an oxymoron anymore
One big factor that you didn't touch in the video: The people who emigrated abroad have the idea of "India" stuck in their head as it was in the 90s. Its been over 20-25 years now. The "culture" and "traditions" that they have imparted to their children is 20-25 years old now. India itself has evolved. Of course they still carries regressive elements with them, but on the whole, the 50+ year olds that I see are way more progressive in India than the 50+ year olds I know who live abroad (anecdotal not empirical).
Another point: Structure. A high school incel is still "redeemable" because they have a clear, defined structure in their life. They go to school everyday, have opportunities to interact with people their age. regardless of their dating success. They have projects, homework, exams etc. But once they graduate, life is self-paced. Whether, they study further, job, run their own business, its all on their own terms. The opportunities to interact with people their own age plummet.
this is so true!! applies to Pakistani/South Asian parents and their expectations of children too
this is so real. i used to always attribute my parents conservatism to indian culture but being exposed to non diasporic indian culture via online creators and discussions and even news and data shows that my parents are just conservative cuz their connection to india is one from 30 years ago.
That's an interesting point! I never would have thought of that so thank you
So real. My parents are in their 50s but we moved to the UK from India in 2002 when my parents were already in their 30s (I was 4). They grew up in a big city and we visit basically every year, so we're still very connected to India. It was bizarre to me to see how old fashioned the parents of the desi kids at my school were. Some of them wouldn't let their daughters wear shorts/skirts, not even in the house if a man was around. Meanwhile my female cousins in India wear shorts and stuff all the time, as do I.
There was also the bizarre reality that the city I live in here in the UK with a population of 300k has more gurudwaras than the city my parents grew up in (population 8 million). Turns out the Sikhs in the UK didn't heed the fact that caste is supposed to be banned within the religion, and ban people from certain gurudwaras here depending on caste. I've heard about Sikh boys being bullied here because of caste. There are honour killings based on Sikh caste. This was so difficult for my mum to comprehend. We're Hindu but my mum's best friend growing up in India is Sikh. In her 32 years in India she had never even heard of the Sikh castes. There were only 2 gurudwaras in the city, one either side of the river, purely for ease of access. It wasn't caste-based at all.
The fact that not even 15 percent of Indian women are in work force, caste ,religion and racism towards north east indian ,are just add on the misery. Source for stats -Center for Monitoring the Indian Economy
that's also one of the reason. I travel from time to time and I find literally every country easy to get dates, except India. The main reason is women aren't in the workforce as much as even the countries that are worse developed than India. So a lot of men in work force find it hard to get dates which leads to inceldom (perhaps?). There might be cultural factors as well. But incels don't think too deep about that. Their logic is -> I don't get dates = women are chasing after chads. Not that women aren't even there to date someone lol.
@@youtubesucks2755I think another reason is lack of interaction from a young age between the genders, like my parents country had all girls schools and all boys schools from a young age and it’s easy to view the other sex as a different species and feel disallusioned and incel behaviour ensues. It’s not all of the factor but it may contribute??
women in India are expected to get an education so they have good credentials, which will make them look like ideal wife candidates. once they get married, they’re culturally forced out of their careers and into the life of housewife
@@itsanu1420 maybe a little bit but I never had problems with that outside of India. Even in India, I have had female friends but it's the lack of options once you move out of your parent's house. The ratio is in favor of women.
@@youtubesucks2755 the cultural factor is this: dating culture within India is very, very new. The reality is the vast majority of parents of current Gen Z had arranged marriages and expect their children to have the same. Here's an example - my aunt and uncle started to look for suitable guys to meet my cousin for arranged marriage meetings. My cousin then had to come clean and say that she had been in a relationship for 4 years. I come from a very progressive family by Indian standards, my cousin grew up in Goa, has been able to wear shorts her whole life, goes out clubbing, is even able to drink with family, even our grandparents. We are very much outliers and her parents definitely would be accepting, and in fact did despite him being from a different part of India and having a different cultural upbringing. Even still she felt the need to conceal her relationship from her parents until she had to reveal it.
If you go to certain spots in cities you will see couples on dates who are very clearly doing so in secret. That's not because they're cheating, it's because their parents wouldn't approve.
Anything that distracts from education is seen as negative in India. Children need to go to school and college, even extra-curriculars like sports are discouraged unless your family is financially secure enough to give you a backup plan. All your time should be spent studying, not wasting time dating.
There's also the fact that if your marriage is not your first relationship, there's a chance you're no longer "pure" to prospective matches. Both parties are expected to be virgins until marriage, but of course for women that is harder to conceal in case they get pregnant etc. So men want access to women sexually, but most women are not willing to take that risk (as well as due to the fact that they just want to avoid creeps).
Haven't watched it yet but definitely will as soon as I get free time. I'm glad this topic is being taken up in Indian spheres. As an Indian living in India, I've seen a lot of incel and misogynistic behaviours and mindsets in my male classmates, and it never fails to make me feel even more scared and sickened.
Pls complain to your teacher or your parents......
Sadly these teenage men ( especially in this Alpha sigma society) are scary.... They all just blame women in everything. Let's be aware of our own surroundings....
@@Aradhaya45720 unfortunately it never goes far- but yea, you can try. indian society tends to allow such abuse to a certain point, cuz most think its just a small complaint or whatnot
they start it off as a joke too. its so weird catching up with old classmates who are now tate devotees
@@harsheh fr
Yes, good point! It starts as a 'harmless' joke, and I see that with my fellow high school classmates, but it really does affect your mind and get serious before long.
I will always love pointing out the absolute irony of incels using the “red pill” analogy since it’s from The Matrix, a movie famously made by two trans feminist sisters (the Wachowskis)
wait till you find out the term incel was imvented by a woman to describe HERSELF and her female experience of being unable to get a partner.
You said it first but I was thinking the exact same thing, elena! Sickening behavior on these dudes part but highly comical when you step back and think about the WACHOWSKI sisters, but that’s information that might take some light research which would take time away from the Incel of it all…😂🙄
One time Elon & that Trump daughter used this analogy & one of the sisters told them to fck off 🤣
True, but the Matrix doesn't belong to the Wachowskis. Just like Star Wars doesn't belong to George Lucas. They are pieces of public art. Sure, they brought it forth, and may 'own' it, but art belongs to anyone that wishes to interpret it in whatever form they choose. By the way, the Matrix was created when the Wachowskis were different people, and the concept originally comes from Alice in Wonderland.
@@trollking99 Its still funny though lol. Especially cause they wrote the original Matrix to be a trans allegory. There's a reason the red pill was red, when estrogen used to be coloured red...
This was incredibly eye opening. I noticed some similarities with Latin American incel culture.
I'm Mexican and I've helped in raising my 13 year old nephew. The rise of the exposure to manosphere amongst teens/tweens has been concerning. Mexican culture, immigrant culture, and Chicano culture have been plagued with similar issues of colorism, familial preference for boys, and "traditional" masculinity. I'm concerned for the mental health of young brown boys. I'm also concerned for young brown girls and lgbt+ kids that have had contact with manosphere rhetoric. Femicide, homophobic violence, and human trafficking have always affected brown girls and lgbt+ people at higher rates.
While there are overall cultural differences, a major marker of incel culture in Latin countries is the use of dark humor to spread ideas. Satire, dark comedy, and a "no one is safe" mentality is what defines a lot of Latin communities. Criticism is equated with sensitivity and the inability to take a joke. Its really difficult for women and lgbt+ people to speak up without backlash. Its even more difficult to seek justice from violence in traditional Mexican towns and immigrant communities.
I don't have a conclusion or connecting thought, I just wanted to include observations.
This is really interesting, thanks for sharing a perspective from a different side of the world. It's pretty sad that this is a global issue.
Sounds like your nephew is lucky to have you! I hope he doesn't get swept up in it. My family is (mostly) white, and I know I worried for a while about my younger brothers falling into similar pitfalls, too. Thankfully, they're becoming very empathetic young men. I think a big part of that was not sugar coating certain issues at a fairly young age and keeping the door open for communication. Of course, every kid/teen is different and it sounds like you already have good instincts
As a Mexican American this is so true.
the rise of the popularity of what you are afraid of even calling traditional masculinity is directly the result of the rise of very strict and authoritarian interpretations of feminism and gender theory. the actual academic content of those fields of inquiry are irrelevant to how regular people like parents and schoolteachers end up interpreting the mass media's trickle down of that ideology, and when the entire discussion is controlled and influenced by people who explicitly say they are biased against young boys and traditional masculinity, to such a degree that they are afraid of even giving it legitimacy outside of quotation marks, then you can't possible be surprised that young men are hostile to it and are rebelling against it.
@@Cheesemonk3h It’s almost as if the group of people (women, LGBTQ people) who are against this mainstream masculinity are the ones directly affected by it. Feminism is a reaction to centuries of sexism and patriarchy. Not the other way around.
i go to the same university as avaneesh and i was so shocked to see that it took them SO long to expel him (i CANNOT believe that he even got accepted in the first place). thank you for making this video and for sharing your perspective !!
unrelated but i love your handle
SUNNY PFP
Why? Because of any misconduct?
@@arrow2380He conducted several battery and stalking on campus within two weeks and the police got him
I went to high school with him and he was known to be a degenerate. I’m not surprised his tendencies led him to being arrested for stalking.
I go to school with Avaneesh, have actually seen him irl and know a few people who have met him too, but he’s legitimately insane with both attempting to lie about who he is and then trying to grope girls on campus by bumping into them 😐 the fact his entire suite moved out when he moved in on campus too
Wasn't he arrested ?
What’s terrifying is that I recently watched this video on the r*pe culture in India, and everyone in this one village - women, teens and men - keep blaming the victim.
Things need to change…
Link the video. Also what r u talking of rape culture dude. Like grow up. India do not promote or teach men to rape women. Otherwise you would have seen lots of attacks on foreign soil by Indians also. We have a severe problem of religious war. And that is a different discussion however if you don't know the history then don't just put lables.
@@ang4065 ruclips.net/video/Pgom8LRF8hQ/видео.htmlsi=Ly1Dx065F6p67BRR lol why are you in denial? This video itself was made by Indians trying to raise awareness.
@@ang4065 why are you in denial? 😂Even Indians say the same thing. You can look it up just by typing R*pe Culture India. The channel is called The Quint
@@ang4065 ignore, tolerate, and lack of punishment do promote that culture whether you teach it or not.
@@favlam1408 Rape happens everywhere in this world. That means that you r also promoting it. I mean like you guys r grown adults and the funny thing is you guys r comparing different regions of the world that have different past and religious issues and political issues and r using a same lens for judgement. I mean it's like saying that all people in the world needs to be 6 feet tall and have sharp features. But how can you expect that for let's say Chinese, or Japanese or Koreans etc. It's funny.
i feel like the rise in popularity of the manosphere and/or being outwardly incel stems from insecurity in almost every single situation. if these guys had confidence they wouldn't need to be in these toxic communities. anyone out there with low self esteem, please don't go down a dark rabbit hole and try your best to remain a good person
The issue with being good is a lot of times people use it as a code to being useful.
Many good people end up being used by many bad people.
Don't be "good", don't be bad, be smart.
Insecurity is key for most successful businesses.
It happens in the plastic surgery industry, skin care, fitness, dating, the manosphere, and many others (even with smartphone brands lmao).
Making you insecure is extremely profitable and it shows that human rationality is a beautiful illusion since most people are emotionally driven (even if it's just initially).
Nowadays it seems like we've lost our ability to improve through intelligence or common sense. If you want to get in shape, apparently you have to hate yourself and create a whole "villain" narrative since doing it just because it's the smart thing to do isn't enough.
If your hand is burning, you don't pull it away because it's logical, you do it because you were too weak to avoid it on the first place, because you should be embarrassed, etc.
@@rutgerhauser2377 yeah i get what you mean and using "good person" is definitely a bad way for me to word it, i was trying to put things in simple terms but generally just meant it as try not to let bad experiences turn you into someone who puts someone else through what you went through. this cycle of abuse is very common and sad to see
It's also the echo chamber be cause people for some reason are so insecure about their world views the second someone is critical they loose their minds. That to me is a big problem. I think that's what leads to the incel extremism. They only hear one view point and the algorithms keep pushing that one view point on them.
@@rutgerhauser2377 wrong. You can be bad person but still be used. You know those people who can't say no to the boss, get angry and beat their kids or wife to feel themselves somehow powerful? They're being used but they're bad people.
What you meant is lack of boundaries. You absolutely can be a good person but protect your personal boundaries. Not being able to say no and exploding with hate afterwards still makes you a bad person.
As a Bengali college dude living in America, I wouldn't have escaped from the incel rabbit hole if it weren't for the pandemic. It gave me an understanding about how horribly wrong and offensive the views that were ingrained into me by my family are and now I'm just working on fixing the root of my issues. I ended up meeting a few women who had crushes on me, one of them I went on a few dates with but I couldn't end up being official because the environment that I currently live in is more conservative which can cause serious strains. So yeah, Imma work on making some good ol' money just so I can move out and be more independent. I don't struggle with confidence as much as I used to (even though my insecurities can linger sometimes), but because of the fact that the family I'm surrounded by can affect my ability to get into my first relationship just means that I got to be financially independent first in order to have myself be ready for my very first relationship.
My brother seems to be spiralling in the same way you were but your comment gives me hope:)
@@Asinearl I'm sorry your brother is going through it. Escaping it is very possible but it's all up to him to try to put in the work.
You're still a currycel
Still a curry 😂
COPE
First cast system, honour culture, love Jihad and now incels… I feel sorry for women in India, hopefully things change.
isnt love jihad an islamophobic conspiracy theory or like is it a proper problem in India
"Love jihad" as a real phenomenon or as a conspiracy theory that ruins interfaith couples' right to live freely?
true
love jihad isnt real
Are you pakistani? 😂😂
So they could only divide us into Stacys and Beckys?
Did they forget about Stacy's Mom? Cuz we all know she's got it going on.
Sorry I need jokes to get me through this
HaHHAHAHAH❤
stacys mom is still a stacy
Milf?
😂😂😂
Damn, that was brilliant.
Thank you so much for making this! While I know you of course do not speak for all brown people by any means, your perspective is super important and your insight(and the insight of the creators you invited on) allows me to think through some of my subconscious bias on my own. This allows me to learn a little more about brown perspectives without having to burden my brown friends for their input on such serious issues that involve race. Sending peace and good vibes; have a great day!
Brown is a weird way to describe ethnicities, yknow that more than a hundred million Indians are not brown right? And I don't mean just different people within India (NE India for example) no even within Indian ethnicities there is so much diversity and just calling Indians ''Brown people'' is weird. Categorizing people in skin colors is very weird and doesn't make any sense Like what about Koreans, are they white? If we do go off skin color does a brown Indian have more in common with a Mexican compared to another Indian who is not brown? How about we stop with the skin color thing and focus on Nationalities and Ethnicities?
@@parsifal40 was just using the word he used😅😅
@@luciadreaming9 Yeah I know it's just a a stupid thing I keep noticing, usually by Americans
I used to be an incel. I was lucky that I had people in my life that helped me get out of that mindset, many of these incels don’t have a group and honestly it is no one’s job. I tried to help but their first step is to help themselves and leave their chamber…
Blackpill always collects.
What is the definition of incel? If it's not having a gf then all of my batchmates are incels including me(boys college and boys high school).
@@arrow2380it depends on who you ask. It used to mean anyone who could not get a partner despite wanting and trying to get one. Then it became exclusively a gf. Some incels also would gatekeep the term if they didn't find you ugly enough. Now some people say it means anybody who hates women.
@@arrow2380an incel isn't just not having a gf. Men with gfs can be incels too. Incels are men who are Misogynistic and think they are superior and entitled to women. Plus if they used the language that the youtuber pointed out in the video then you are one. If you aren't resentful about being single or you don't think you are entitled to women then you aren't an incel
@@arrow2380not having a gf definitely does not make you an incel. It's ok to be single, the problem comes in when you attribute your single hood to your looks or the "wickedness of women". Focus on your wellbeing ❤
I have a stammer too, and you make me more confident about myself, by speaking to the camera as your true self. Thanks man
Be confident with your voice! Also stammers are cute imo, and they definitely don't detract from understanding what you're saying either. I hardly notice his anyway and can understand him perfectly fine! ❤❤❤
@@bearcat999 thank you, thats very kind of you😊❤️
Same here! ❤
saji sharma and ro ramdin collab was EXACTLY what i needed right now
parents fr
FAM. YES ❤️ i’m so glad y’all made this
I am loving the brown people RUclips. I have watched so much white and black video essays. And loved them. Now I feel so happy to watch so much good brown people essays. I’m from India.
Agreed. This perspective needs to be known.
Diversity of perspective is always a really great thing to see, Saji is great
what it have to do with color of their skin?
@@sammy57533 if you're asking this question, it's because you don't already know. And speaking as a pale American, it's not something I can easily answer either.
@@sammy57533 Becs of Intersectionality? Learning from many diverse people will help you understand a situation whit their perspective. And other identities are also effected by your race such as gender and or sexuality and vice verse. So if you watch essays from many different type of people you will have a better understatement of a topic. Also south Asians perspective seems to be left out of many discussion, intentionally or unintentionally.
haven’t watched yet just commenting for engagement. cannot wait to watch tn getting high as fucking hell. i already know this is gonna be a TREAT
twinning
Literally watching high af rn
Get high and watch long format content. That's the life 😂
i used to have a lot more patience and pity for incels when i was a teenage girl with little experience and a lot more energy. im tired rn lol, i dont have the bandwidth to be every losers patient teacher. its been 30 years bro you arent a child, fix your damn self.
**edit**
ITT: mad people upset that strangers dont have to be infinitely nice to them - especially when they treat those strangers as subhuman. read at your own risk uwu
What are you yappin abt 😭
YOU DONT HAVE THE BANDWITH OMG LMAOO
You never had any such empathy in the first place rofl, that's just pity.
@@Eternitygate empathy for men who keep wishing ill for women and want our rights to be taken away? Sorry I'm not ruining my health over people who want to inflict violence on me
@@Eternitygate i literally said i felt pity for them, its like the second word i used to describe my emotions. but that aside, do you believe empathy is not needed to pity someone?
This rise in incel culture online between men of color is just very mentally straining as someone who barely escaped the pipeline myself
It's extremely easy to get caught in as a preteen/teen if you spend too long online and can be very hard to check yourself as you get older and stay in those spaces unless you find someone or something to pull yourself out of it. (It took my phone breaking mid quarantine causing me to be unable to talk online for me to break out of it)
I wish the best for those who get caught in it at a younger age because that's not their fault most of the time but past like the age of 16-17 it's harder to feel for them
The algorithm is very insidious in this way. You click on one video and, all of a sudden, you get recommended dozens of videos that are designed to appeal to you
It's the truth
its interesting how so many men leave these commuities by just stopping looking at them. you are what you consume and consuming incel content is the same thing
Well men of color tend to have harder in dating so obviously they are more prone to falling down that path.
This is pretty eye opening. I work in retail and sometimes customers get a little too personal with their lives sometimes (mainly around the holidays and complaining about family members to one of us when said person isn’t in earshot). Anyways, one time I was checking two Indian women out at the cash register. One of the women was on FaceTime with her husband who was in India trying to get him a gift but he didn’t seem to be engaging with her as much as she was trying to. Once the woman on the phone was gone, her sister went off and ranted about her sister and how she’s in a physically abusive relationship with her husband. She seemed mostly frustrated with her sister for not asking for help or leaving after her husband started hitting and cheating on her. What threw me off was the fact that she seemed more angry with her sister instead of the husband. She told me that her sister turned down a marriage arrangement to be with this piece of shit and kind of insinuated it was her fault for choosing him. I just tried to tell her to try making her sister feel safe in talking about her husband (and make it clear that even though she chose to marry him, it doesn’t mean she has to stand by that choice and that there was no shame in leaving) and maybe even use the love her sister has for her kids to get out of that situation (someone being abused is more capable of thinking about someone else’s safety than their own). I want to believe that somewhere in that anger she cares for her sister. But I think misogyny definitely played into how she viewed the situation. Still one of the strangest conversations I’ve had with a customer, but I could tell she was dealing with a lot. Now it kinda lives in the back of my mind rent free.
well if you do choose a person who abuses and are with him its your fault as well you arent a child
@@raghavnamasivayam5098no, Not at all! If that's the case then domestic violence is totally ok. Or your friend treating you badly is ok. Your partner beating you is ok... But we all know that's not true people choose the person because they love and think they are good people but if they turn out bad then the person who is cheating or beating is the wrong one. Because people like this portray a good image and then one day people caught them.
@@raghavnamasivayam5098 if you carry your wallet and get pickpocketed on the streets, it's your fault. You aren't a child after all.
@@_butter.cup_ lol poor analogy you arent choosing anybody to steal unlike partners who you choose even though you know what you choose stop acting like a clown
@@raghavnamasivayam5098 what if that happens to a man instead? would your answer be different?
Bro, your hair is so on point today! The curl definition, the frosted tips, damn! It looks really healthy too. Well done. As someone who also started to level up my hair skills, I know it takes work to get it that sleek and bouncy. Keep up the good work! You look great!
One of my close friends is south asian and he's incredibly lonely. However this is because his mum uses cultural norms to isolate him from anyone else. when we used to hang out she'd be constantly calling him and trying to force him back home, making him feel that her health and wellbeing is his responsibility. He can't move out and leave her, when he's married his wife will live with them. I think if he didn't have such a diverse friend group he would have easily fallen down the incel pipeline.
as a south asian male i simplly lied to my parents to leave the house. my parents would NEVER approve of who I hang out with but fuck em
@@ShaiyanHossain literally south asian parents causd so much of these problems not socialising their children prooperly
@@ShaiyanHossain it didn't matter who. He's just not allowed, she tells him he's going to get hurt and it's dangerous
He has to grow balls and move out his parents house.
Well he is still an incel in denial. If women are not throwing themselves at you, you are an incel.
Such a great deep dive, Saji! Thanks once again for having me on! 🥹
You were awesome I just subscribed!😍😌
Just subscribed! Your commentary was really great :)
Wanna talk about caste system in India/Pakistan?
Ru u chamar by caste?
I was so happy to see you collab in this! Made me follow his channel
I was so happy to see you collab in this! Made me follow his channel
To me a major problem is the echo chamber they reside.
The algorithms also keep them in that echo chamber.
Everyone resides in echo chambers. This very comment is an echo chamber
Why is this echo chamber fine but theirs isn't?
@@painunending4610the outcomes of echochambers define whats a good and bad one
@@LostSoulchild89 That's What Everyone Thinks in their own echo chamber.
All these commentators and youtubers who consider themselves above “incels” are a result of an echo chamber 😂😂
@@miscerswetdream lol yup
I definitely agree wholeheartedly with the ending parts. Don't let anyone get away with bullying or abusing you. I know it might be hard to deal with, but it's surely better than letting them get away with it!
So I shouldn't let the people telling me to k!ll myself because I'm an unattractive men get away with it? How should I respond to those people?
Momma, I made it!
I think Indian culture doesn't accommodate differences or child upbringing well.
No one's there to guide you or provide any feedback if you're an Indian incel growing up and trying to court a potential partner in India, etc.
If you don't buy into the patriarchy or mysoginistic pop culture as a consumer to at least some degree, there's next to no experiential overlap with other men or women in India societies. It could mean instant rejections out of non conformity owing to no actual character faults per se.
Not to mention its a system where women traditionally have little recourse or a voice at all despite modernity.
I'd say growing up with a diverse set of folks is a remedy to a lot of this, but there's some more to it.
I grew up with a diverse set of people. My parents are quite liberal and made sure I understand and accept people with different races or sexualities
Doesn't really help when no woman's ever been attracted to you tho
@@painunending4610 still no woman's fault. sucks tho
@@painunending4610 I'd say work environments or hobby groups are a potential solution. With work, it varies greatly though. It's not always appropriate, especially if you're not on friendly terms already.
My cat kept staring at the screen whenever Rose was on. I think Rose has a fan 😌
cats have tastes and personalities. what type of cat you've got there.
@@PHlopheIg I’ll share. My cat is oddly interested in cooking. Whenever someone is in the kitchen cooking my cat will go on top of the Fridge and stare at whatever’s being cooked. It was almost as if the cat was studying how to work.
Edit: how to cook*
Alternate solution to many of these problems: unplug the Ethernet cord
How long do I have to touch grass before someone finds me attractive?
@@painunending4610As long as it takes for you to learn to love yourself first
@@painunending4610 the first 21848282 hours are just a warm-up bro, remember to never get up and to keep on grinding :D
@@painunending4610 till you lose the brain of a chronically online perrson
@@opheila-.2029 That's counter productive. If no woman is attracted to you, and I mean no woman, no matter what you do, there are only a certain amount of options that remain, none of which being normal relationships.
WAKE UP NEW SAJI VIDEOOO
i was stalked for two ywars in high school by an incel. He was in one of my classes. He knew my entire class schedule. There was one time he told me I had to go on a date with him because he knew where I lived and told me my address. I did not go on a date with him but when I reported him to school administration, they told me there was nothing theh could do because he was autistic (barring the fact that I am also autistic.) He ended up following me home and I had to lock the doors and wait for my mom to come home for him to leave.
School officials can very much do things to discipline and address issues caused by students with autism. Autism doesn't prevent parent teacher conferences or the like.
@@fluidthought42 I think they were worried about getting a discrimination charge from his mom. She was known to be one of those kinds of parents.
@@blueskieshera
You knew his mom?
@@fluidthought42 vaguely? I knew she was one of the problem moms, I live in a small town
@@blueskieshera
So did you tell your own parents so that they can light a fire under the schools ass or talk to said mother directly?
I really recommend the book ‘men who hate women’ as an insight to incels and different groups of men mainly online (who hate women lol)
You wish incels hated women so you can have an 'excuse' to talk down upon them. If you actually speak to them, only 1 in 10 will actually say they dislike women. All of them are extremely sympathetic.
@@icantseethe7680I'm not an incel but am blackpilled. I definitely don't hate women, I just understand the differences between our genders and how society is now much more skewed towards benefitting them, on the short-term at least. I don't see how anyone can look at dating statistics now and not be concerned, it's just denying reality. If they did research instead of virtue signaling, they'll understand what us men are going through. That denial of reality makes me have no hope for the future.
@@AM-cm2kj To sort of help their case, I’s say incels can start looking into ugly/obese chicks without making it seem like they’re fetishizing them. Then women in their 30’s, then moneymaxx single moms, then passport bro foreign countries, (yea you’re creating ER’s but if you have a daughter not a son you basically won). That’s essentially the pecking order when it comes to women.
@@icantseethe7680 A lot of incels might not realize that they hate women, but they do! You’re a good example of it. You literally just ranked women based on your view of what they are worth, which is misogynistic as hell. That IS what people are referring to when they say incels hate women. It’s clear in everything you say, no matter how much you protest.
@@beehivebat4766 Its not my ranking. You’re assuming that the mere statement that women of certain circumstances can be mote or less attractive via “ranking” is mysoginistic. Well, is ranking men based of height, wealth or income misandrist? No? Why not? Its not “ranking”. And if someone says I Don’t hate women or I’m not racist why would you even bother contesting them? You can’t control people’s thoughts or feelings. That itself is toxic.
i almost started on the incel pipeline in middle school and i’m so grateful that i learned what an incel was when i did, because the idea of being one scared the shit out of me. the main thing i didn’t want to do was disappoint my parents, especially my mom, because the way that incels think goes against everything my parents have taught me. either way, great video saji! keep it up
You forgot the third category of women. Anyone over the age of 30. We’re considered washed up and undeserving of any love.
"Considered" is far from any functional hinderance. Those are just pathetic "alpha males" pretending as though there's such a thing as an unattractive (net) woman. 90%+ of single men would date a woman more than 30 years older than him. Ask any random guy. You'd hear the same thing. Actual alpha males in the wild, do things a bit differently. Ask sir David Attenborough.
As a normal dude, 30+ is perfectly fine. What you heard is nonsense spouted by groomers
Well.
Taking in consideration of women choosing men who earn more than them during marriages .
Why will any man who has worked his @$$ off in his 20's will want to marry a women who is off his age or maybe older.
Infact most women want older men and men want younger.
In india when a women is in 30's needs men who is elder than her which automatically deminishes her prospects as most men are married after 32 .
And don't get me wrong women in their 30's will have a high boducount which is absolute no no for most indian men leave alone the fact that after few years women in their 30's have more problems related to miscarriage.
@@vibhorejaiswal2997 incel logic right here. Your kind commit the most self deletion btw
@@vibhorejaiswal2997 ever heard of milfs?
Currycel calling other Indians currycel. Haha
How's that even amusing?
This guys seems to have a great "personality" and definitely knows what these guys go through every day.
I do think the Manosphere, at least from the outside looking in, strikes me as toxic nearly from the start. (And I say nearly, because when the first incel group was formed, it was formed by a *woman* who could not find companionship, and she wanted online friends, if nothing else was working. And that lasted about a year...until a group of bitter misogynists moved in, and took over.) And I think it's not just obvious awful people rising to the bottom, like Andrew Tate, but some of the basic precepts. The first thing to say is "Oh, all women are superficial and looking for tons of baby daddies", which is pointing out while claiming no fault. And that's not great, blaming and distinctly Othering an entire gender. But at this point those statements are almost ALWAYS followed by the Chad hatred--"Oh, I can't get dates because my chin is weak/my cheekbones aren't sharp enough//I'm not over six feet tall/my eyes are too far apart (or close together, I've heard both)". And all of that? All of that is self-hatred--with genetics the culprit. And that is a cultural worm that burrows, and burrows deep. A man can do superficial things--changing hairstyle, upgrading wardrobe, working out, whatever--but that's leaving the base substrate alone. A man can't do much about height, eye spacing, jaw line--those are all genetic. They're setting themselves up to fail, and each failure makes them more bitter, more sad, more angry.
I often wonder what a “traditional” 1950s man would say if he watched a looksmaxxing videos, while reading the subsequent comments from men and boys in the comment section. . The more “traditional “ these boys have become - the obsession with appearance has also risen. They are also extremely catty toward good lucking guys as well. Sadly this phenomenon can never go back into the box. Once a demographic or generation starts focusing on their appearance and the current beauty standards - it will never stop. Some of it is a misguided understanding of evolution and animal behaviors.
@@carrington2949
See the behavior isn't inherently toxic though, it's toxic because it's expressed through a toxic mindset. Someone, man or woman, engaging in working on how they look as a form of individual self expression is fine. But when done in a toxic mindset it itself can be a form of self harm.
Think of it like buying clothes you like because your last favorite shirt ripped vs a shopping addiction, working out for fun and health vs doing it because you're compelled by body dysmorphia, etc. The underlying dysmorphia is the issue, not the "looksmaxxing". Guys can want to look pretty too, but there's a risk for men who lack a healthy relationship with their own self-image.
It's interesting to me because you can outline to some of them how the problem lies in patriarchy, but they are... unwilling or unable to understand that liberation does not come from dominating others or otherwise serving the needs of patriarchy. Like they know they're in pain, but they would rather feel that pain than the alternative because the alternative is too scary for them.
@@fluidthought42 I agree wholeheartedly. The comment section of these videos remind me of the extreme skinsporation posts on Tumbler and IG from my childhood mixed with a heavy dose of eugenics ideals thrown in to justify the toxic thinking. It is somewhat dystopian.
How is no woman ever finding me attractive 'setting myself up for failure'?
Have you ever actually sat down, talked TO, and listened to a romantically unsuccessful man? Would you want to? I'm open to a conversation if you want to know more about what it's like (most people don't want to know what it's like)
"Currycel" and "ricecel" are generally self given terms. Its common for incels to give themselves disparaging names like this based upon what perceived weakness they have such as "shortcel", "mentalcel", "voicecel" etc.
Overall a pretty sloppy and inaccurate video, can't say I got much out of it. 👍
🤓
@@Precipiceofwind great counterpoint. Did it take all 2 of your brain cells to write that?
@@bettybunbun9664 ooga
@@Precipiceofwind thats what I thought.
Professor on incellology sighted
New Saji video? Perfect excuse to go make another cup of chai.
I'm sipping on some right now 😝
happy to see Ro!!
काश हमारे देश का हर एक आदमी आपके जैसे सोचता
While the advice for women dealing with incels was good, I’ll admit that I found this video lacking in advice for men at risk of falling into inceldom. The analysis of Avaneesh and Indians in the incel hierarchy was quite fascinating. But when the discussion of rehabilitation came up towards the end of the video, I found myself asking “how do we stop these young men from turning out this way in the first place”. Because the root of inceldom is loneliness. And while empathy with their situation is nice, it simply isn’t enough without actionable advice. Incels look at women showing empathy toward them as pity, which they’ll interpret as a reinforcement of their hopeless existence. We need to give these men something more. How do men navigate the modern dating landscape? How should men approach talking to and getting to know women? How does a man meet more women period? These are important questions to answer, because men flock toward incel communities believing that nobody else has those answers. The best (and really, only) way to turn an incel away from that ideology is to make them believe they can change their situation.
@@Mr.MReturns"make them believe" lmao so its just gaslightning got it
That sounds like you are blaming others for your personal issues. I went down the self-help path to improve myself, so I could be more confident, but all I found was generic advice I could have found in any book and a bunch of charlatans trying to sell me more generic crap. In my self-help journey, it didn't make me feel better about myself, it just made me compare myself to more successful people, which was depressing. The manosphere just enables incel's self-hate, hate of women, hate of competing men, and promotes more chronic online behavior. Hookup culture has nothing to do with my dating experience, those type of folks stick with their own kind if you are upfront about being monogamous and into long term relationships. The more you date, and learn about yourself in your preferences and boundaries, you can weed out folks with red flags who will cause you problems. @@Mr.MReturns
I was in therapy for a year, and it helped me to see my issues and taught me to get out of my comfort zone to have a better life. I love my friends, I hang out with them on the weekends, and we talk about all sorts of personal things, it's cathartic. We go out to bars, public events, museums, live music, or hang out at one of our apartments, it's wonderful. Life starts outside your comfort zone. Doom and gloom is bullshit, the real world is so much more fun! @@Mr.MReturns
People become in/cel in the ideological sense because the opposition has nothing to offer.
What, are you going to tell men that they just need to be confident and get out there? What do you think brought them online in the first place? You don't just live a fulfilled and social life and then magically get attracted to in/cel spaces. You get hurt and rejected multiple times before you realize something. It's like burning your hand on a stove, at some time you will realize, that the stove is hot.
If you are rejected by women and blamed for that rejection by people online and by your own family and parents, what are you going to do? You'll try to fix things, that's where redpill comes in, you will be more willing to accept women care about things you can change than things you can't.
It is only when you have changed the things withing your control, that you realize what is actually happening, which is the blackpill. The blackpill, in short, ways that thr most important things in life are the ones you cannot change.
Family, country of origin, time of birth, economic situation, your looks including your height and facial bone structure. From general empirical evidence we can assume, that come to attractiveness we observe a bell curve. Many average people, few ugly, few attractive. In/cels make up a minority of the population. If you see men from your family being "ugly" then you're just being judgmental the majority of men can't be below average because it defeats the very meaning of the word average.
Thus putting things together there will simply be men who can have all the "good personality" or whatever else you want, they won't find a woman in a dating world that is solely based on physical attractiveness. The blackpill is simply right.
@@Mr.MReturns since the video deals with indian/south asian incels... is there pressure to quickly lose virginity in the west?? Is this pressure more for men?? In India being a virgin till mid/even late 20s is no big deal at all. I only lost mine at 26 when i married. This is why i find the incel phenomenon odd.
As an Indian girl. I would personally never ever marry into whatever tf these guys think of women's place in a household after marriage. I would much rather stay single forever if that was my only other option.
@@Aayushjha-pc2eeit’s different in the west, it’s not the same as India
I agree as another Indian. People in the west are a bit more liberal thankfully
@@Aayushjha-pc2ee lol I'm single and not at all lonely. I'm much happier now than when I was dating a guy so keep your advice to yourself. Thank you very much.
The men's rights movements in India is correct to a certain, they aren't all against the provisions for womens rights and protection but they want it to be more thorough as there have been many cases of abuse of such laws without any repercussion. Not only that the recent revision of laws by the looks of it seems to have no punishment for se*ual abuse of men.
I've found the easiest way to find someone for yourself is to figure out what you're looking for in a partner that goes beyond superficially driven desires. If all you can obsess over is how a person looks, it's going to lead you towards toxic or unsavory people. All people are beautiful if you know how to look beyond the skin.
💞💫🔥❤️🔥🔥💫💞
Cope
Ah, yes, we do. 💞
Such a contemptible face you were born with.
@@gilliancarlson229 Respect. World's a fucked up place so holding on to a mentality like that requires strength in a way.
Even pedophiles? They're beautiful deep down as well?
First time viewer, you seem like such a class act man, instant subscriber
Also my god, whatever you do with your hair is working! 🎉
It's always interesting when people discuss issues they can't personally relate to.
Agreed. Sort comments by newest first and you'll see the real people like us
yeah like when men talk about how women work despite not being women.
Bro doesn't know what an incel is
NEW SAJI VIDEO!! I absolutely adore these kinds of deep dives with the mix of comedy and informative commentary - it is my top tier of content preference 🎊🎉
I do also appreciate you pointing out the line between comedy regardless of intentions when it comes to deeper topics that require more serious conversations
super interesting video, and also your hair looks SO good
Yesss continue to uplift brown and black voices!! 👏🏿
Vox journalist in training but in a bad way
how is he like a vox journalist?
@@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy "in order to understand straight indian incels, I need to bring in a woman to understand her experience" ????????
Coming from a woman who dated all races of men. She is explaining as if white men can't be misogynists. To my personal experience, I have seen some white men to be extremely toxic, insecure and misogynistic, more than many Indian/Mexican men. Yet some non-white girl still obsess over them. On the other hand, I have found Indian men to be very romantic, sweet and caring. This is a very well known fact that many non-white women who were brought up in the west have a strange infatuation (fetish?) regarding white men and their physical beauty. Most likely due to media representation, Euro-centric beauty standards, internalized racism and colonial hiccups. Also I am very curious if she ever dated any non-white men before. Lol.
dude, I’m dominican and puerto rican, I don’t look south asian in the slightest, and even I get called baljeet just because I’m brown, it’s like the universally applicable label that white people use towards brown people
But all of americas used to be called "Indians" so technically Gringos are not off base.
Personally i would make the difference as hair line alone clues me in as to whether you are a Kamaljeet , Gangandeep or Rigoberto .My sister is married to a LatinX , he is part DR and part caucasian .He literally looks entirely LatinX and is very strong. It must be the Mufongo de platano
@@PHlophe there’s no rationalizing it, it’s pure ignorance, and that was centuries ago anyways. These are Americans from the 20th century calling every brown person baljeet
@@PHlophe I just read the full message and I realized that you’re trolling 😭
@@ggrogan what part of it would be trolling when history books prove my first point. .You are weird
I got called muslim on omegIe even tho I’m 🇩🇴 & I hear the dark skinned ones get confused for african american so ig all us 🇩🇴get mistaken
incredible video!!! i really appreciate that you had women to talk about a gendered issue and the conversation/interview format was really interesting :)
It's over for curries. I see them coping at gyms all the time, like why guys even trying 😂
sir bros, it is over
not really i am indian and never struggled in dating. stop spreading fake stuff. gym can improve many if they have decent face
bro as an indian i dated even white girls. i am born in uk and moved to usa and they love my british accent, currently in a relationship with a white girl and i am not even tall@@schrodinger_kot
bro dont listen to this guy ik some indians who do well even in the west@@schrodinger_kot
@@Vproblemo whites are loosing in their own country
Take a shot everytme she says "you know"
There is a difference between being lonely and being alone. I'm glad I have gotten comfortable with myself and am happy being alone. Finally got here and I'm almost 30 so it takes time, yes I was an incel at one point in time I'm not proud of it but I'm no longer in that mindset and I gotta say it's wonderful. Stay strong, get offline, go to the gym, and just focus on you stop blaming others for your failures. 😎💪❤️
You need to start weighing the options. 30 years would drive most to the brink of destruction. You probably have lost the desire.
@@icantseethe7680 You are right and wrong with this comment. I haven't lost the desire to be with someone I just know and understand how the "dating market" is right now. Let's just say not good I ain't into the hookup culture. Plus I just wanna focus on me for once in my life, finally get in shape and feel proud of myself for the first time ever.
@@aresgodofwar7401 W.
If you still desire, but cannot get it, you _are_ an incel.
Fellow South Asian diaspora kid here, everything you, Yusra and Ro said is true about growing up as a brown boy with immigrant parents. It's taken me over a decade to deprogram a lot of this shit, even though I never fell into inc*ldom. I might be an asexual mid-30-something who isn't married, but discovering and embracing myself over time has been healing.
I hope more fellow South Asian people watch this video and engage in more self-reflection, and have these tough conversations within the diaspora + across generations. It's badly needed. Good on you for posting this.
P.S. You had 1,776 comments at the time I'm writing this, hope this fixes it. ;)
never fell into inceldom but 30 years old with no partner.
@@ibrahimhassaan6188hahaahahaahaaaa facts he is an incel in denial.
I feel bad for yall east indian dudes. Yall are undesireable to women.
0:10 nuh uh, I’m standing outside your window.
This is a joke!!!!!!
@@Urglewurgleburgyou don't say captain obvious
@@VishalKjha I was probably sleep deprived you don’t have to be a dick
Take a shot everytime she says "you know" in a sentence.
Yusra saying "yknow" a lot and yet being so so well spoken is so encouraging to me omg
(i say "like" a hundred times in even sentence)
i know you didn’t ask for advice so by all means ignore me if you don’t care. but i’ve had a similar problem with filler words my entire life and my solution was to literally say nothing. i would stop in the middle of my sentence and figure out what i was trying to say, then continue as if nothing happened. it helped with not saying like/uh as much, but it also helped me get better at efficiently articulating my thoughts. it’s not a sign of poor intelligence or even poor communication skills to take a moment and remember wtf you’re talking about LOL just some advice from somebody who’s dealing with a similar situation
I was so happy to see Rose in this! unexpected collab
Curry cel is BONKERS
As someone who literally broke up with this misogynist man / abuser
And I can’t tell u how sad I feel for myself knowing now that I was being trapped/gaslight
I have faith and I believe god save from this man and I can’t describe the amount of relief I felt the whole day
Just knowing your worth is the most valuable thing in life and that’s what I learn.
I love your chill vibes your videos are comforting
15:32 becky was a term black Americans have been using since the 90s (that ive seen) to describe a woman of European descent. Much like woke (Garveyite), got co-opt'd and bastardized. Like the manosphere, hell even the ados movement.
Turns out blacks were the first incels. It's been over for them.
most of them, almost all of them are native indians. i noticed that the indians who grew up in the west etc are more mature , knowledgeable and less problematic tbh. it's the environment you grow up in 🤷♀
Inceldom is one of the most disheartening and terrifying spheres of self-fulfilling prophecy. You could present as the most interesting beautiful man, but as soon as you start letting some incel-like rhetoric slip? It's over. You feel rejected by women so you blame them, but if you blame them they won't want to date you. Such a sad cycle of abuse.
Otherwise - this is the first time I have seen you and your content! I hope this continues to get pushed; I am looking for ward to seeing more :)
Do you see your errors in thinking.
First you presuppose an attractive dude to be an in/cel which is about as likely as a hurricanes rummaging a junkyard and in the process a fully functional Boing is assembled. Not gonna happen.
Then you suppose in/cels don't limit their ideologically influenced language to the online world but instead talk like that to everyone - which is not the case.
The real logic circle is:
You ARE rejected by women - you try to change - you are still rejected by women - you try to change - you are still rejected by women. You want to date women but women don't want to date you, not because they are somehow trained in the arts of reading your mind, but because you are ugly. And that won't change. That is the only constant here. Your opinion of women changes in life, but their opinion on you have always been the same, which is that you're ugly.
Have you ever actually talked TO incels? I mean don't observe or talk AT them, but actually asked questions and listen to what they say?
Most incels are self-aware enough to know NEVER EVER let anyone know that you're unattractive. They know to keep a tight lid on any incel rhetoric because they know it's a social death sentence. It's the whole point of why they have their own forums and sites, because they know they can't share or express anywhere else
We are fully aware of the disdain people have for romantically unsuccessful men. We know about it and we know not to share it because it isn't received well
Also I've seen attractive dudes who basically see women as sex objects get with women, before you say 'women can sense when you see them as an object'
@@painunending4610 pretty much, trying to heckin’ respect women to the ninth billion degree is called being a “nice guy”, which doesn’t work lul
@@Randomlad56 It does work, you just got to be handsome or not ugly
If I remember correctly that dude who became the face and body of the gigachad is actually a very humble and down to earth fitness trainer. I think I read that he’s actually very self conscious about his looks and never viewed himself as the hottest guy and does not like that his face and body are being used in such a way. I could be completely off because who knows what is real on the internet anymore. I think the guy is from some Eastern European country and has no social media or online presence.
He's a photoshopped art project by his gf, who looks barely anything like the "meme" he became.
@@sangheiliwarrior86 cool I knew it was something weird about it. He is a good looking guy based on the few real pics of him if your into that sort of thing, but his personality couldn’t be farther from that of the redpillers
Good looking people are inherently more moral by nature. You have discerned the truth.@@DaughterofDiogenes
@@DaughterofDiogenes He doesn’t exist gigachad is a photoshop of 3 seperate male models from Eastern Europe with exaggerated features.
@@aar0n709 I thought it was this dude “GigaChad” (also known as “Average Enjoyer”) is Russian menswear model and bodybuilder Ernest Khalimov.
Edit: I looked it up more and that’s so crazy. It’s like some Momo shit. lol. All these fools running around wanting to look like a transformer. 😂
Can you please make a video about Indian gym culture?? As a gym rat and employee I’ve noticed the gym culture is huge but also different from anything I’ve seen. It’s very prominent in social media. I’m fascinated.
Its just similar to the West,but there are many gym influencers here who do lots of cringe content on instagram.
As many Indian people I've met and graduating from a University with East Asians taking the majority of international students. I didn't even know they were seen as undesirable or as creeps. Glad you brought up the topic. They only told me about their culture in India
Everytime I look at Indian right wingers online I feel like I'm going insane. Especially on Twitter.
Then despair as you realize that the right wing has 80% Approval rating in India
@@mvalthegamer2450
Well, yeah, the Middle East is known for its infamous amounts of homophobia lol
@@mvalthegamer2450yeah and it’s terrible
What does right wing even mean at this point
@@mvalthegamer2450what do they stand for ?
why are people utilising the word incel interchangeably with misogynist/ reactionary when incel merely means involuntarily celibate lol at least do your due diligence before conveying a word
Men get the broad brush 😂
Because the idea of seeing nuance frightens these people. They just wanna put all their political enemies in a big ol' box
the red pill definition shocked me i didn't know that was so serious. do they not know we are a patriarchal society historically, western society has been patriarchal for a good long bit of literal human history from like, BCE. you can't just say society is women centric as if it has ever been? 😭 bruh i need these men in school pls give them a basic history course
literature too. creation stories, especially currently prominent ones such as genesis, are literally all patriarchal. intro to literature class. PLEASE MAKE MEN GO TO AT LEAST TWO YEARS OF LIBERAL ARTS GEN EDS.
I remember explaining patriarchy to some commentors on another video and explaining to them how patriarchy subjugates both men and women. They then asked why the term patriarchy, when I pointed out the history of patriarchy they just sorta... well they were looking for a reason to reject the reasoning but they were just left with exposing themselves as biased against feminist thought or feminist analysis.
At least for me it did help me develop a more holistic definition for patriarchy though. "Patriarchy is a system where people are expected to enable the domination of women by men or else be dominated themselves." It basically polices for adherence because if you step out of line and instead treat people as equals, that's a reason you ought to be "put into your place".
No amount of biologically occuring organic compounds can make you believe what you believe. Only formulations. Let that sink in. You really think 5000 years ago, in lawlessness, people really, ahem whatever (remove h, 1 e, and v).
Patriarchy and gynocentrism are mostly the same thing just viewed from a different angle:
- men are expendable
- men are supposed to be tough
- men are supposed to work and fight
- for these men are rewarded by women
- women are supposed to be young, fertile and feminine
- men work, take risks, and sacrifice to acquire access to women who are young, fertile and feminine
- because men are strong, and take risks, and are ready to sacrifice, they are a threat
- since men are a threat they are viewed with suspicion as a default
- because men have to do all the work, they bear all responsibility
- since women are weak they are protected and kept safe
- since women are weak, they are not a threat, and so are not viewed by suspicion and met with skepticism, but are instead welcomed and helped
- since women are protected and kept safe by men, the men get to make decisions, while women are disenfranchised (as are children, for mostly the same reasons)
The word gynocentrism simply points out that the only reason men even get out of bed is to acquire women. "P*ssy makes the world go round." I know women might never truly understand this, but men do.
As someone whose feed has been flooded by incel grifters, I have a very long block list, it's easy to see how incels fall into it and this was a very balanced and insightful watch. Thank you for taking it seriously and going further than most commentary channels with the interviews etc.
Thank God. I am nowhere near as popular or liked as you to Finally talk about this subject. Please inform these clowns that they're going to have kids one day and leaving this crybaby shit on the internet is only hurting them. I subbed, hail to you champion!
i don't have anything to comment, just wanna boost this video for my algorithm bc i havent seen saji pop up in a while
whenever I see Ro Ramden in a video I feel like an angel gains its wings
you're an inspiration to young men with a stutter. keep winning King
Am I the only one who felt unsettled by the framing of this video's commentary and guest choice?
Like ok, the topic is inceldom among Indian men. Saji says that the topic hits too close to home for him to be unbiased, so in order to "balance' things out, he brings on not one, but *two* women to contribute their insight. Moreover, Saji recuses himself from the discussion and plays the role of disaffected narrator throughout the video, leaving the commentary and analysis *solely* to the women who were invited to participate. So pretty much, in a video about male loneliness, Saji decided to not bring on any men to talk about it. Not to demean the guests at all, I think they had good things to say about the topic from a woman's perspective, but neither of them have personal experience with being a male incel or being allured by that ideology. Frankly, I think their perspective was quite limited - these women could only really speak on how they've been affected by incels while at best speculating why men turn into incels in the first place. For such a personal topic that deeply affects many men, this feels like an oddly distant, insensitive approach.
Think about it - if this video were about rising female loneliness, don't you think it would be kinda weird if Saji brought on two men as the *only* guests to commentate what they think is going on with women? We all agree this would be pretty strange. Except Saji (and any other leftist video essayist) would *NEVER* make such a basic error in that scenario. The choice to omit analysis from a guy who has experienced these things firsthand feels like such an obvious missed opportunity that I'm tempted to call it virtue signaling, to be honest. Do you think the video wouldn't have been elevated by commentary from, say, a former Indian incel? Or was this a deliberate choice to avoid associating with the "wrong" group of people for fear of upsetting your audience?
Even in lieu of a guest like that, I think it would have been AWESOME to hear Saji's personal experience as an Indian guy, whether or not he grappled with some of these ideas espoused by Indian incels, and if he didn't, then what he thinks saved him from falling down that rabbit hole. And that could be the starting point of a discussion on how we stop these young men from being drawn to incel ideology in the first place. I hope I'm making my point clear when I say the omission of an Indian male's perspective from this video was a HUGE missed opportunity, one that I cannot help but think was a deliberate optics choice. And honestly, I'm disappointed.
Yeah I think he could have done better with bringing more guys and showing their perspective. He brought up colorism but he didn’t talk about how brown girls can be colorist and white worshiping too sometimes. Incels do have legitimate grievances but it’s something that they should work on themselves
@@aniketpaharia6772 "Yeah I think he could have done better with bringing more guys" He didn't bring on ANY guys at all, that just doesn't sit right with me.
Along with the colorism thing, there were other narrative "choices" in the video that were just downright questionable. Like when he said that the slur "currycel" was imposed by white incels. Idk what incel forums Saji has been on, but if you've been on one for 5 minutes, you'd know that incels of any kind LOVE to stratify and categorize themselves by race. Indian incels call themselves currycel. Asian incels call themselves ricecel. So on and so forth. Even white incels call themselves mayocel. This kind of behavior isn't just kowtowing to what white incels want - they are all choosing to identify themselves in this way. I don't necessarily know why, maybe it's an ingroup thing mixed with self hatred, but to say that it's just white incels perpetuating the use of these words is flat-out inaccurate.
@@fatcat22ableWell in order to get context he'd have to invite actual incels into the show, and as we know incels are looked down upon. I also find it interesting how people on the outside change the definitions in order to justify their points of view.
It's because he hates incels and doesn't want to talk to them. He sees romantically unsuccessful men as lesser than himself and doesn't want to hear what lesser people think or do
100% agree btw. Lot of people talking AT and ABOUT romantically unsuccessful men, not a whole lot talking TO them
Being alone does not equal loneliness, and both can be good. Young men need to start understanding and learning from this. I say this as someone who ruined a lot of things with accidentally slipping into incel behavior despite the fact that i should've seen the signs especially considering my radical left stance on society and generally materialist analysis of society
I know this. Still doesn't stop me from wanting a relationship
Do you know what it feels like when no one's ever been attracted to you? The fear and confusion. Would you like to know?
@@painunending4610 that's not my point, but desperation doesn't make you attractive. Not to mention that almost everyone underestimates themselves (including the people you may be attracted to) confidence is always the first and biggest step and the easiest way to gaining that is knowing your worth and knowing that whoever you're trying to talk to is a human just like you. Another tip: listen. you don't even need to talk, just listening is enough a lot of the time
I think this underestimates how profoundly alone these people are. When you haven’t talked to another person in months, when you haven’t looked at another person’s face for weeks, and when you’ve never had someone to relate to, being alone does make these people lonelier.
Stoicism is just another branch of the manosphere these days, so isolation isn’t helping. Incels need in-person interaction with regular people
@@SpinningSideKick9000 sounds peaceful, hoping to get some sort of job where I can either work in a quiet room and git paid a lot, or work cozily from home while having the radio on, listening to whatever my tastes are that day.
That’s the difference between desire and peace, I’ve made peace with the fact I’m probably not going to see a mini-me sludge through the hell-hole, and maybe I’ll die forgotten, or alone, but I’ll die peacefully and happily, probably playing vidya and watching cop shows like the olden days…. ❤🥲
@@Randomlad56 There are positives and negatives to isolation. Personally, I coped by basically using it as meditation time to learn about philosophy and Taoism.
Unfortunately, though, running from fears doesn’t make them go away, It just builds the fear up in one’s mind
It’s always such a refreshing and insightful to watch your informative videos even if it requires more time! Thanks again for using your time to make this and inviting guests to bring more nuance to the topic
I’m looking forward to your next video essay! :D
got beat here by the bots but got so excited to see a new upload. i've been binging all of saji's videos for a few days and this one was perfectly timed
Dont forget to work out yall, do anything, even if its 10 pushups
Very well constructed video! I love the interviews as well, especially Ro's insight, I think she is such an amazing creator.
Thanks for shedding light on this.
Love the guests in this episode. Everyone was amazing
using "obsessing" when they like white women, then using "fetishizing" when they like latina women. like okay bro
You watched the entire video and thats all you took out of it… foh 💀
That's all you need to know to get the idea of what a piece of crap this guy is@dylan-gm1gq
He also implied that just because we aren’t sucking d means we’re homophobic 11:42
@@honkhonk5181 ummm no he doesnt lol wtf r u talking about bro, he is making a insult dont take it this seriously
@@honkhonk5181 You forgot: Making a homophobic joke by implying guys who don't get women should just "become" gay and f each other is not homophobic if you are a left wing youtuber and if the joke is applied to a marginalized group.
Yeah these people really don't make a lot of sense.
I see a lot of comments that are trying to disprove the existence of incels in India etc. but I think most people aren't getting that self-described currycels are usually Indian incels who are living in the west.
From a therapist's perspective, we often work with clients on "rehibilitation" (has many meanings) privately. These clients generally have not committed hate crimes but come to therapy due to depressive and anxiety symptoms. We often uncover toxic beliefs clients have about themselves and others. These beliefs can be safely challenged and worked on in therapy. Many clients, those that truly are working on themselves, can be rehabilitated and lead healthier and happier lives. Therapy can be life changing! Please do everything you can to reduce stigma related to therapy. If you feel comfortable disclosing to friends and family that you have been in therapy and found it valuable, it can help normalize it for everyone else. Thank you for helping to destigmatize therapy!
Been waiting for a deep dive on this since your last (unlisted) video. Very interesting, provides a more nuanced take that i think a topic of this complexity deserves. Good job :))
Back in the day of my peak Facebook trolling days I joined an "anti-feminist" group. This was before the term incel was even made. I thought it was a group that was against that weird, 3rd wave feminism trend we had going back then. Boy was I fucking wrong. Nothing but women hating weirdos. I had a field day fucking with them before I got kicked out.
But my biggest take away from that group was how strange it was that most people in that group were Indian. I'd say more than half were of Indian descent.
Yeah, that's why I find it weird when this video states that the world of inceldom online is a white mans world. It's been the opposite in my view from what I've seen lurking incel subreddits and forums. Funnily enough, I've seen whites get attacked by the indian incels as being fake incels since they could easily get asian girls. So in that world where the more lower on the rung of attractiveness you are, and indian definitely is considered to be at the lowest, being an indian incel basically makes you king of the incels.
@@tiarabite Imagine a reality show where incels of different races live together. Shit would be gold.
Third wave femininsm killed manav singh
@@DonteWilsonChrisDorner indian are in every group
Not all incels are the ugly ones. Sometimes they are the guys in the middle - not too ugly, not too handsome. They are ignored too.
I think it's ironic how the most well known incels online or in media were either average looking dudes or even genuinely attractive people that were just horribly misguided.
@@Kojiguma That's why they make it into media. There's many in/cel channels online where the guy is just ugly.
Of course it's not going to make it to the headlines if an ugly guy is an in/cel, that would prove our point, that it's not their mindset or personality but looks and looks alone.
@@Kojiguma in media and “”online””? Hmm….. the two places most known for their honesty and their reliability of information? No lies?
@@Randomlad56 I agree with you but my comment wasn't really about the media and more so about how easily incel ideology can poison your brain no matter who you are or how you look.
@@j.d.s.8132It mostly their looks that are the issue. There are a lot of men that are handsome with a misogynistic mindset and don’t struggle to get women.
I really appreciate this deep dive and especially the look into the dynamics the “Manosphere”, though I do wish there was more of a look at how the biases within those spheres, especially the racism, carries over to LBGT+ individuals, especially POC transwomen there’s another sect of incels that chase trans people. And that’s not even going into the aggression towards fem-presenting people who are not attracted to men
perhaps a random comment, but as someone with low empathy who actively practices compassion in order to be a good person and feel for other people (and also someone who notices the pitfalls of empathy because of that), when we talk about people like this, if your (completely understandable) reaction is "ew, fuck them, they are disgusting and do so much harm to the world", i suggest sitting with that initial feeling and then trying to be compassionate instead of just letting your empathy do its thing. you are unlikely to feel empathetic towards these people and i think that's pretty normal. you can't really imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who is doing awful things or (depending on who you are) could do those awful things to you.
but at the end of the day, like saji, yusra, and rose said, rehabilitation is both necessary and possible, yet we will never get there if we simply disregard the people who are in need of rehabilitation (and obviously that's always pretty shitty people anyone is unlikely to automatically feel for). and like i said, i think it's totally normal to not feel any empathy and any positive or even just neutral feelings towards shitty people, but having this objective concern for them (as human beings who could have been better people) and the way they affect the world (which i'm sure you already care about) is what could be placed at the centre of the conversation on rehabilitation without you having to either invalidate your own feelings in order to support rehabilitation or prioritise your feelings to the point that you don't care about rehabilitation anymore.
(and just to make sure it's clear - i am talking about any group like this as a whole, not individuals who have harmed you specifically and who you have every right to not care for in any capacity and remove from your life entirely).