4 "What If" Moments in History
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2023
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Fact boy the missle crisis happened in 62 not 69 (teehee)
Cuban missile crisis happened in 1962 NOT 1969 as stated on the video
😡
I’m not saying there WERE ancient advanced societies, but I would push back on one thing. Each time it came up, you were quick to add “but there’s no evidence”. Well, no. There wouldn’t be.
If human society vanished today, nature would quickly reclaim the planet. After around 10,000 years or so, there would be virtually no trace of us whatsoever. So *if* an advanced society, or ten of them, existed millions of years ago…we could literally never know.
THe Cuban missile crisis happened in 1962, not 1969. I don't know what I expected from someone who's said that killing millions of innocent German civilians as revenge for the Holocaust would have been justified, though....
The Cuban Missile Crisis happened in 1962, not 1969. I was in NYC in the 5th grade, oblivious to how close we came to Armageddon.
Conspiracy theory, he did it on purpose just to say 69!!!
I had to replay it 3 times. He did say and the close captioned showed 1969. Fact boy, indeed.
Add to that his inability to say Gobekli properly and you’ve got a hot mess.
Nice.
@@TraceyStark Tell me you have never seen a brain blaze video without saying it
What if she didn’t take the kids?
You wouldn’t have tried to better yourself
What if child support didn't exist?
What if she swallowed them?
No such timeline or parallel universe exists?!
I should call her
Please make this an ongoing series!! There are so many historical events that are pivotal consequential, and have far reaching ramifications.
If McDonald's made the decision in 2004 to remove pickled gherkins from their burgers because 35% of people remove them and don't eat them thrn the entire world gherkin industry would have collapsed overnight as McDonald's almost single handedly keeps in running then the domino effect would have been catastrophic as other industries would begin to collapse one by one. This close decision to keep the gherkins in the burgers may have saved the world from an apocalypse.
Such as what if Catherine had given birth to a son for Henry VIII instead of a daughter?
Ahh, the duality of Simon's videos.
"What if we were to horribly lose WWII and a nuclear war? Buuuttt what if you could also recapture the happiness of your childhood with Magic Spoon!?"
What if Edward III had been accepted by the French nobility as the rightful King of France, avoiding the Hundred Years' War and uniting England and France under one banner...? That alliance would absolutely have conquered the world.
You're assuming said union would last for centuries and wouldn't lose itself in countless European wars... just look at the Plantagenet dynasty
@@andrepovoa988 In the face of a combined English/French nation, there _are_ no European wars to get caught up in. No one would have been stupid enough to start that fight - the biggest army combined with the biggest Navy. If it lasted through the first hundred years or so, enough for the tensions to simmer down, I doubt anything would have broken it up. England and France spent centuries fighting each other, take that away and their combined Empire would be enormous - no one else would even get much of a look in. No USA, because the only reason they won the War of Independence was help from the French, and the British already being preoccupied with fighting said French. No WW1 (because it was largely the British acting as an equalizer that led to the tangled mess of treaties that started the whole thing), assuming a united Germany ever even came into being in the first place, and even if they do unite no Treaty of Versailles means the Nazi party never rises. No wars means there's no diminished strength in the Empires of the Allies to drive the dissolution, which means it would probably still be around today.
I love "what if" videos idea. Not only because it's intriguing to think "what if", but also because you are identifying those "weak points" in history that could have had huge impact on future. I haven't heard about forest massacre, but it truly sounds like quite a pivotal point.
Ancient civilizations have flood stories because major civilizations have always been focused around large bodies of water (specifically rivers) where a “once in a lifetime” flood is inevitable
This.
This this this.
You mean the biblical flood concept is a bit of an exaggeration, inspired by the early river valley village life. What I am curious about is who wrote the bible, because it has a collage of stories from over time so who was able to keep track of it and write a book out of it.
@@jrus690 Useful charts has a video summary on this if it helps
@@nealjroberts4050 Which video? I might watch them all, but is there a particular one.
I remember a great conversation with my friends about the German Roman battle and the potential consequences. It’s a significant turning point among many in history that reminds us all just how fragile our society is
This was also a constant topic at the Royal Canadian Legion among my Great-Grandfathers’ WW2 (& some also War of Israeli Independence) veterans.
The largest group among them looked at it from another angle entirely though; as their families were originally from the Ottoman & Russian Empires’ Ukrainian & the Caucus area, and made refugees.
The talk always came down to the theoretical peaceful coexistence of their historical oppressors & conquerers. The all-encompassing power wielded by leaders/warlords through the Christian Church, would never have been granted. Rome’s progressive values on proudly being a multi-faith & multicultural empire would have endured; and the “Doctrine of Discovery” just another extremist’s idea never to gain traction.
Even the rise and expansion of the Arabian powers/peoples up into the Fertile Crescent of the old Persian & Egyptian controlled Mediterranean Sea area would have been drastically different with stable Roman Republics. The peoples of the African Nile Rivers & Delta and the Mediterranean Sea would have kept inter-marrying, and seeing that region as as a distinct group in the empire. That would also mean not losing the priceless records in the Library of Alexandria, *and us still freaking understanding Babylonian jokes*
Armenius (Hermann), the German leader was a turncoat Roman officer gone native who well understood the weaknesses of the Roman Legions. As often is the case the biggest danger to any empire is from within.
If Germany had been 'Latinized' WW I & II probably would not have happened.
I think the Battle of Teutoburg forest is massively overrated.
After the battle the Romans did a number of additional expeditions, which were successful. It wasn't that battle that stopped the conquest of Germania, but the fact that the general that led the latter campaigns became too popular and a rival to the Emperor, and thus was called off. The same likely would have happened without that battle as well.
@@jenswurm The loss of those 3 Legions not only changes the languages & bloodlines in N.Europe forever, but it was also a *watershed cultural moment* for “Modern Rome.”
You have to put it in a modern context like Dec 7th 1941, 9/11, or the 2020 January Insurrection. All 3 of those events drastically changed the idea of what it meant to be American for good & bad, and changed how people view America from the outside.
People today forget how scared N.Americans were of a possible West Coast landing by Imperial Japan, and the perceived inability of the US & Canadian Military to repel them. We never built the fortifications along our borders or coastlines before it, because we felt safe behind the vast oceans. That idea has been gone since WW2, especially now that nuclear weapons could be used to set a city on fire in just 10-15 minutes.
For the Roman Empire it was the same. It rocked not just those who saw themselves as citizens of the Empire; but those on the fringes who wanted their empires/kingdoms back.
I have always been fascinated by thinking about "what if Harold had held on to the end of the day and gotten reinforcements at Hastings?" The Battle of Hastings was extremely closely fought. If the Saxons could hold out 1 hour longer, they may very well have won. What then? How would England be different? And therefore, how would all of Europe be different?
This one is definitely a huge tipping point. Although the Normans were Viking descendants, it was the culture and technology that they brought from France , along with their innate yearning for adventure and challenge that, merged with the existing Anglo Saxon/British culture, laid the foundations for what Britain would become in the future. Britain would have been a very different place without the Norman Conquest and, considering how Britain would one day play a huge role in the making of the modern world, without the Norman Victory at Hastings, the world today would be an unimaginably different place.
One of the major changes are that the language English itself would be very different because not nearly as many Latin based loan words would have entered the language. Another is that the series of wars known as the One Hundred Years War either wouldn't have happened at all or else wouldn't have involved England.
@@jonnunn4196 Yeah. The implications are huge. It's just amazing how narrow the victory was and how monumental the changes became.
@@dbf1dware A small change in wind direction, and Harold doesn't get that arrow in the eye. He lives, and holds them on the high ground. Harold was a good general. I think the Saxons win.
I think it's even simpler than that. What if Harold doesn't die with that arrow in the eye because of a change in wind direction?? One slight change of wind, and the arrow misses him. He was a good general. He would have kept his men on the high ground, not to be lured downward to be destroyed. He was a good general. He had just won a battle against a much larger force a few days before, against the Viking Harold Blue tooth.
Harold Godwinson was talented. I think he wins against William, if only for a puff of breeze. The western world would have been completely different today if it had. For all the reasons you and the other commenters mention on your thread.
Cuban missile crisis October 1969? Do you mean October of 1962? That's such a glaring ball drop Simon lol
Conspiracy theory, he did it on purpose just to say 69!!!
"Ball drop"? At least we're not talking about a "bomb drop"!
But I, too, remember the Cuban Missile Crisis being in 1962 -- SHORTLY after the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion
Going the same route as Infographics lol
Go easy, Simon's not from this timeline
@@nonenone7761hah
1:00 - Chapter 1 - The tale of 2 battles
3:15 - Mid roll ads
5:05 - Back to the video
5:35 - Chapter 2 - The great flood
9:05 - Chapter 3 - Nuclear war over cuba
11:40 - Chapter 4 - Massacre in the forest
Nobody asks for this unless it's a clearly structured concept. This isn't a clearly structured concept, so nobody asked for your comment.
It always comes across as passive-aggressive, too. Like you're saying "oh you couldn't do something as simple as splitting chapters? Let me do it for you, I guess."
@@7Fatguy People who put the lyrics down for song videos annoy me as well,for some reason.
@7Fatguy Are you alright, my guy?
@cascadedeclipse8240 No, I just ate an entire bowl of a**holes in one sitting. Now I'm shi**ing a**holes. Thanks for asking though
12:03 To be fair, the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest was a defeat, but the Romans were already at the very edge of their logistical support. Germany wasn’t quite as arable as Gaul and would have had a more difficult time maintaining the urban environment that Rome brought to all colonia. Even in the time of Marcus Aurelius it was a struggle just to maintain the line of the Rhine.
In addition, the Germanic tribes flowed into Roman territory not because they just kind of wandered in, but were pushed into Roman territories by Central Asian tribes that were pushing them westward. These tribes had been heavily Romanized and even fought much like the legions of the late Roman period. The extremely harsh treatment and quite frankly Roman racism against the “barbarians” had already forced quite a bit of unrest…and they made up the bulk of Western Roman strength. This was already a recipe for disaster by 400 AD. Combined with the constant usurpations of the throne and you have a recipe for the 410 Sack of Rome.
Let’s also not forget that Rome want even close to the most important city of the empire by that point. The emperors lived in Ravenna, which was far safer. The Eastern Roman Empire was the true power, and Constantinople was now the center of the empire. In fact the first name of the city was Byzantium and then Novo Roma (New Rome) before Constantine’s ascension. The Sack was a psychological hit but not an economic or military loss in all honesty. As the west was already in a steep economic decline and the true financial power was now in the east, most didn’t even mind at the time.
Finally…the Roman Empire lasted until 1204 or 1453, depending on how you look at it. Just because it wasn’t in Rome doesn’t mean that this was not the polity of Rome in Constantinople. To their end, the last emperor claimed that title until the walls were breached by Ottoman bombards. The “Byzantine Empire” was a later historian’s construct and was never used in the lifetime of the actual empire. The fact that this one political entity existed for over 2000 years is INSANE.
The point is, if they HAD won, the frontiers would have been pushed and it is also just as likely that the entire empire would have fallen.
Fantastic post, hitting many oft-overlooked elements of Roman/Byzantine history; you even used the word "frontiers" instead of "borders"! 👍 👍 👍
I live at the old limes frontier in Germany near bad homburg. Got the old castles, the saalburg for example.
@marcbeebee6969 I know that Castelum from my childhood and teen years when I lived just beyond that. Despite the fact that it was a botched attempt at reconstructing the original castelum it still gives a clear indication how well defended the Limes was.
Yes, it was a defeat. But it was a truly disastrous defeat. Three legions nearly completely wiped out, with the corpses of the soldiers gutted, decapitated, and strung to trees during pagan rituals was a clear indication of HOW badly they had been beaten.
Germanicus in 16 AD was sent out as a revenge expedition, and he was moderately successful, but couldn't keep the territories he conquererd under control, so withdrew back to the original borders. From notes from him and his adjutants we know that every Roman soldier was horrified by the brutality that had been committed on the fallen or injured.
Three legions was a terrible loss never heard of before, especially in such a short time. Other battles were bloody as well, but none did so much damage so swiftly.
The question was how badly this affected the morale of both the senate in Rome, of the general public, but especially the rest of the Roman legions when word of mouth inevitably spread among the troops. Yes, it would have taken quite some time to percolate through the entire empire. But inevitably people would have heard of it at one time or another.
The loss of such a large number of men also meant a huge financial loss in addition to the loss of military power.
In addition to that, the idea of using captured ransomed chiefs as military advisors would have been affected as well. This was a very successful tactic that allowed the Romans to bolster their numbers by more or less willing chieftains in the captured territories for the promise of relative leniency. This must have gone fully out the window after that defeat by Arminius, who was exactly such a ransomed captured chief's child, forced into Roman legions. He learned more or less all of his military skills at the feet of Roman generals, which he used for devastating effect.
With this example of betrayal this principle of using captured troops was probably weakened significantly, making reinforcements from Roman settled territories necessary. These however did take a lot longer to reach the frontiers, instead of using the local troops as reinforcements.
As such the whole of the Roman Empire's military advance slowed down massively.
That's why I believe that yes, while Rome was already in decline by 410, it MIGHT (!) have possibly survived a lot longer, or even survived long enough to conquer all of Germania. With the Romans being the guardians of the territories in Germania Magna, the Central Asian tribes would probably have had a much, much harder time invading, releasing the pressure on the Germanic tribes. Maybe the Germanic tribes would have even seen the Romans as unwelcome, yet still useful guardians of Germanic territories.
But at least, it would have been a great 'What if' moment.
You are making a good point there but take into account how much earlier the battle of teutoburg happened. It was 9ad, the huns started to become a problem in the 4th century. Germania magna becoming part of the roman empire would have had huge effects on everything you mention here. Instead of having thousands of kilometers of frontier here, they could have pushed the frontier roughly to the oder and then down into illyricum, which reduces the length of their frontier immensly and makes it easier to defend against the east. Especially since you now have all those german tribes that where a problem fighting for you. Most likely the Oder would have become an integral part in that new frontier, and being able to move troops over water would have been a big advantage for them. There is a reason they used thew rhine as part of their western frontier, and here you have an even shorter frontier with the oder running almost the whole way.
Didn't expect but absolutely love having Melbourne mentioned in this. Such a brilliant cameo!
One of my favorite 'what ifs' in history is what if Alexander the great never died early? or What if Constantine didn't shift the empire to Christianity?
Hard for Constantine to have not done so, as supposedly his mother converted to Christianity before he made that decision.
Regardless if he actually saw the Christian symbol in the sky or not, he did have an excuse to make it an official religion to protect his mother, and in turn protecting the Followers of Christ.
The question is better asked if his mother never converted, though I guess that's similar to that question.
Ultimately, the likelihood for the US existing would be much lower if Constantine didn't shift the official religion of the Romans be Christianity...
@@Practitioner_of_Diogenes The ramifications of Christianity never taking hold in the roman empire or perhaps at all would have such massive consequences for the future of humanity that it would be pretty unrecognizable to what actually happened.
Like, would Islam ever rise either? If it did would the Pagans of the empire resist more ferociously due to the existential threat Islam posed to pagans? (Pagans are to be exterminated whereas Christians can be tolerated if they pay extra tax or converted)
The hundreds of thousands or even millions of people who died in religious wars throughout history wouldn't have happened- kinda crazy to think of all the possibilities.
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What if Berthold Brecht's theater company had hired a poor, struggling, moderately talented Austrian painter who had just been rejected by two Viennese art schools prior to WII, giving him a decent paying job, leading him to avoid fighting in the war and keeping him out of politics?
WWII was gonna happen with or without a failed Austrian painter heading Germany.
@@theawesomeman9821 True - but would the Holocaust have happened? And all the rest of the Nazi atrocities?
What if Fidel Castro had made the cut for the Brooklyn Dodger’s when he tried out for the team?
What if Ioseb Stalin had continued in the monastery like his mother wanted, or done the whole the meteorology thing.
What if he got laid and was not an MGGA incel...
7:43 What many people forget is that the story of Atlantis was made up by Plato to demonstrate a specific philosophical point
That is however just modern interpretation. Also myth of Atlantis existed before in ancient Egypt
He was told by an Egyptian that was told by his grandfather many years before who was told by his ancestor
I read a sci-fi story where the Pax Romana had lasted for thousands of years, and the Roman Empire ruled the entire globe. It was a long time ago, and I can't recall if it was just a short, or if it was part of a larger series.
Was it warhammer 40k? Lmao
@@bradley7394my exact thoughts 😂
@@slayingroosters4355 for the emperor!
I think you're thinking of Roma Eterna. Silverberg. It was put into a novel but it was Many short stories collected together. Can't remember much else, I ran through it years ago on vacation.
@@Matthew10950I think you're right. Good series of short stories.
The late 1980s and the 1990s saw a boom in popular-fiction versions of alternate history, fueled by the emergence of the prolific alternate history author Harry Turtledove, as well as the development of the steampunk genre and two series of anthologies--the What Might Have Been series edited by Gregory Benford and the Alternate ... series edited by Mike Resnick. This period also saw alternate history works by S.M. Stirling, Kim Stanley Robinson, Harry Harrison, Howard Waldrop, Peter Tieryas, and others.
The life and actions of that Germanic Prince-Arminius-is one of the most incredible stories in history. Worth a video on his own.
“What if?” Is an exceptionally intriguing question. Excellent video.
simon needs to do an alternative history channel
If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs. If we had eggs.
and what if those eggs are green
Great video, but the Cuban missile crisis was 1962, not 1969.
Unwatchable
-nice-
Think the moon landing rather than the CMC. Just a mistake.
1962 or 1969 ... No matter what, it would have been a terrible blow if they had lost the internet back then!
@@Peter.H.A.Petersen Haaaaahahahahaha
Fact boy gave me chills with the delivery of the last line.
Weather has a lot do with war plans. D-Day relied on the weather, The Battle of Britain relied on the weather, Hitler's plans to invade Russia and Britain were affected by weather, and so on through every war. Even Napoleon suffered from weather problems, he lost to the Russian winter like the Nazis and his heavier cavalry and guns, got bogged down at Waterloo, by unseasonable weather caused by volcanic activity. Even in modern times weather affects war plans, both the Russian and Ukrainians have to plan around the weather, when they attack each other.
Mongolia Vs Japan twice, Japan won how weather, typhoons stopped the Mongols landing in Japan
@@nataliamundell6266it's even funnier second time
@@nataliamundell6266 Not unlike what happened to the defeated Spanish Armada. They were forced by the English Navy, to split up and some tried to get home via the Irish Sea, then going up around Scotland, so they were shipwrecked, in rough seas.
The initial invasion of the USSR was also launched two to three months late due to having to bail out Italy. If it had launched on schedule they'd have had a good shot at taking Moscow before the winter where they may have been able to loot enough winter coats and other winter gear for their soldiers.
@@jonnunn4196 Barbarossa was delayed due to weather, not Italy and Greece. The spring in 1941 was wetter than usual after the harsh winter of 1940/41 and the German forces had to wait until the raputista was over.
The Atlantis story is possibly based on the destruction of the Minoan Kingdom on Crete following an eruption on Ssntorini which created a tsunami that destroyed their fishing and naval fleets. I often think that many myths have just a grain of truth in them. The end of the last Ice Age saw significant sea level rises that inundated areas like Doggerland in the North Sea which were populated. It’s possible that many flood myths originate from similar events across the world. I don’t mean that a Stargate type super civilisation was wiped out, more a regular settlement of the time that was lost beneath the waves. The stories crested get re-told and embellished through the following millennia to produce the myths of Atlantis, Noah etc.,
Also it could have been Ice Age Ice dams breaking causing massive flooding.
No. Plato made it up (really, there's no record of it before he wrote his stories) to make the Greeks look well hard. It was an allegory about pride and hubris nothing else and it certainly wasn't based on a true story.
the flood thing is just simple exaggeration in stories. You experienced a flood that covered a neighbourhood? You tell stories of a flood that covered the whole city. You experience a flood that covered a whole city? You tell stories about a flood that covered the planet. Given how many ancient civilizations were founded right beside rivers and the ocean, it would be weirder for an ancient civilization to NOT have a great flood myth.
WW2 what ifs are really frustrating. Even if Stalingrad fell the Nazis were at the limit of their supply lines and had been massively attritted. It was a side show until Hitler made it a main event. The Soviets would have won regardless. They would have lost north Africa due to supply problems and although the war might have lasted a couple of months longer, as the Brits has won the battle of the Atlantic in 1943 the Nazis were doomed. Probably as early as 1941.
Exactly the Germans were going to inevitably lose unless they could take and hold the Caucasus oil. Winning at Stalingrad would have helped but not guaranteed this.
pretty accurate, the sad part Stalingrad was unnecessary, Don and the Volga were secured already. Yes the factories were an issue, but if Luftwaffe taken out the fuel tanks and factories instead of wasting bombs on the city....
@@procopiusaugustus6231 even then they couldn't extract the oil for a long time. The whole idea was pointless in the end. Germans had to win and win quick and it had already failed in 1941 before Stalingrad
Also, the Battle of Normandy wasnt that important for the war. It wasnt even that important in Europe. The only important outcome of this battle its that the Iron Curtain was positioned a bit more to the West. The Battle of Midway is way more important in the general outcome of the war, since it crippled the Japanese Navy for the rest of the war, just as Stalingrad crippled the German Army.
The "sad" part? Why sad? Are you a neo-Nazi? Did you want the Nazi's to win WWII?@@jantschierschky3461
Always love your content Simon! keep on keeping on!
Surprised the flood segment didn't mention doggerland or the end of the ice age raising sea levels.
What if Simon had never done a sound test/ narration of that first RUclips channel...
😊
biggest What if moment this century? Hitler not being accepted into art school. Had he been able to develop his art and get some recognition, he probably wouldn't have become the angry politician he is known for. I think it funny that he could have been a top rated artist, since the greatest artist have always been the craziest most troubled people.
If instead of Hitler someone actually competent had mobilised Germany into war they could have very well won
I disagree. World War 1 still would have happened, and Hitler was no less nationalistic before applying to art school than he was after being rejected. From there, everything would have basically been the same; the only difference would have been that he had briefly attended art school before WW1 broke out.
If there's anything that could have changed Hitler's path in life, it's his mother not dying of cancer (or WW1 not happening, or Germany winning). Her death had an absolutely profound impact on his persona and worldview. I believe that, if there's any one person that could have assuaged his grief at Germany's loss in WW1, it was Klara. The two things Hitler loved most (if not the only two things he loved, aside from possibly his niece, Geli Raubal) were Germany and his mother. He lost both in a span of 11 years, so perhaps it is unsurprising that he ultimately descended into such an embittered mindset.
With that said: All other things being the same, even if Hitler had not risen to power, someone else would have. You have to remember the extreme disappointment and resentment that permeated the Weimar Republic following the Treaty of Versailles. Germans felt cheated, not only because they lost the war (that it could certainly be argued they almost won [twice!]), but also because the terms that the war ended under were so incredibly lopsided and genuinely harsh against Germany. At the end of the day, the only thing that could have stopped WW2 from happening was a better resolution to WW1. The reason Germany ultimately devolved into Nazism wasn't because of Hitler specifically, but because Germans in general were looking for an outlet for their dissatisfaction with WW1's resolution.
@yayhandles I disagree. Much of his anger came from not being recognized in the art world. Had he gone through and completed a university education, he would be ruthless in taking over the world and maybe even too busy for politics. Side note, why are most of the worst most brutal politicians vegans...
Ruthless in taking over the art world
He would have still enlisted in the army. His dad was still a prick and his love for his mother was real and snuffed out. He needed something. School would have fulfilled that. The real what if is if that British who claimed to have had him dead to rights pulled that trigger. If that is true even true.
Love the content, Simon. Ozgeographics here on RUclips is studying the Mediterranean, and there are potentially 2 craters off the southwest coast of Greece and chevrons scattered across the Mediterranean in sight-line to the possible impact sites. The Burckle theory is flashed out; this one is new.
I love what ifs… more of these please
I actually bought some Magic Spoon after watching one of Simon's CasCrim videos and feeling bad about the constant demonitization. OMG, THE PEANUT BUTTER. I can't eat sugary cereals anymore. This was a revelation. Just wanted to thank you, Simon. ❤
I'm glad you're able to afford those things, they cost as much as a solid gold bar.
@@shivanshna7618 it was a nice treat, for sure.
People actually watch these adverts? I thought everyone just skipped them.
@Avalon_1991 if I'm washing the dishes while listening, I'll just let it play.
How about a "What If" about the Mongol invasion of Europe in the 1240's, specifically, what if Ogedei Khan hadn't died? Would the Europe we know today exist? I'd be fascinated by your take on that. Enjoy all your work!
The channel Wizards and Warriors has an ongoing series about this exact scenario.
ruclips.net/p/PL2Qq-rUSt7b33A2vPRIbU0hsekD4rIqbQ
The most likely real-world candidate for Atlantis is Doggerland, which I think Simon has done at least one video about before on one channel or another. As for the Second World War, I don't think a German victory at Stalingrad would have changed the outcome of the war that significantly. I think the more likely outcome would have been stalemate and a reduction to trench warfare on the Eastern Front, with Operation Overlord possibly being delayed until Germany committed its reserves to cleaning up remaining Soviet resistance... and the eventual outcome would have been both Germany and Russia being defeated, and the independence of former Soviet republics and democratization of Eastern Europe happening decades earlier than in our timeline.
Edit: And the speculations on the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest are spot on, in my opinion... as much as any such speculations can be called accurate, since it's all hypothetical. But it would make an excellent basis for a work of fiction... which I'm sure has already been written.
I think that you’re right about the WWII scenario. If Stalingrad had fallen, I think that Hitler would have actually committed more troops to the Eastern Front to try to knock the USSR out of the war, making his “back door” more vulnerable. And, honestly, if Stalingrad had fallen, Rommel would not have been the great German hero of the moment, and would probably have been deployed to the Eastern Front advance.
But the biggest hurdle in the Stalingrad/D-Day what-if scenarios is that it forgets the timelines of the war. The Germans faced three fronts in Europe in September 1943-the west coast of France, the Eastern Front with the USSR, and the Italian Front. If Gen. Clark (US) had followed the battle plan and crushed the German 10th instead of entering Rome, which had already been abandoned by the German army. If the Allies had taken the 10th army, they could have used their control over central Italy to entirely cut off German access to the strategic resources of the Balkan states through their superior air power.
It’s interesting that Rommel’s holding back his panzers is considered a key factor in the success of D-Day; he did something similar with the invasion of Italy, withholding the reinforcements that might have helped Kesselring defeat the landing at Salerno.
It’s almost like Rommel was crap at defending against an amphibious attack.
Just because he wins at StalinGrad, doesn't mean he wins the war in the East.
Soviet industry in the far east was really ramping up, and the German armies were stretched thin.
That is mind bending amazing simon thank you for this one! Half german myself!
One of the single greatest What If's for me is What If the Revolutions of 1848 had succeeded.
0:54 - Normandy invasion Part I
05:00 - Normandy invasion Part II
05:29 - The Great Flood
09:00 - Cuban Nuclear missle crisis
11:40 - Massacre in the Forest
The Sandman (Vertigo) story August, from the Fables + Reflections collection, tells a story about the Roman Emperor Augustus Caesar which somewhat also ruminates upon the Roman "what if?" discussed here.
A major event that doesn't get talked about enough is the defeat of the Spanish Armada. England's victory gave them world power status and it was the beginning of the end for Spain. How that would effect North and South America would be monumental.
The What If question throughout history could be an entire channel unto itself….
I love questions like this, one of my favourites is what if Henry V didn’t die before the king of France and ascended to the throne of France as was agreed? Would England and France have become a union? What would this have meant for modern Europe or the British empire.
And what if he had lived another 20 years? Had noticed what was going on with his son? The wars of the Roses happened in part because of Henry VI 's issues.
Initially that would have been a personal union or which there are several examples in UK history alone; such as the before integration of Scotland and England, those being in personal union for roughly 100 years before the parliaments also merged. But also at least one German state was at one point in personal union with the English monarch.
I have my doubts as to if England and France could have been integrated together. It seems more likely that after a couple of generations the first time France got distracted by a conflict that there would be a revolt in England.
@@jonnunn4196
Yeah, it’s just so many things would have changed, especially Henry VI’s entire life!
The English and the French of the 15th century getting along, not too likely. As long as the English are still able to sponsor a little expedition to that strange place across the pond.
@@jrus690
Henry V was the heir to the throne of France after his military campaigns. It wasn’t because they “Got along” it was because England was winning battles.
Would love to see you guys do more Alternate History.
I would have chosen two different Battles for WWII where the outcome was much likelier to be different if only little things had evolved differently:
1. The Battle of Midway: What if the American Dive Bombers had not been arriving simultaneously above Nagumo’s carriers at a moment where he was most vulnerable. What if they couldn’t cripple or sink 3 of the 4 carriers in this one action and what if Japan had got the chance to counter strike on Fletcher’s carriers with all the planes they had at hand. Loosing her carriers would have forced America out of the Pacific for a while, would have helped Japan to gain the resources they needed and for sure would have bound much more of Americas resources to defend the West Coast instead of focusing on defeating Germany and Italy.
2. The Battle of Britain: What if Goering and Hitler had not decided to shift the focus of the Luftwaffe from the airfields of the Fighter Command to London so early. Had they completed their job of destroying them, the RAF would have had to retreat to the north and remove their protection over the English Channel which would have given the Germans much more freedom to attack the British fleet from the air (something Japan did successfully in 1942 in the waters around Singapore) and maybe ultimately invading England.
Absolutely agree on the Battle of Britain (can’t comment on Midway).
The German French rivalry is due mainly to the breakup of Charlamain’s empire between his 3 sons
I’d like to know more about this. Suggested reading?
I thought that it was Charlemagne's three Grandsons @aOx666 ?
@@Vanspecial it might have been his grandsons I Just know it stems from the split of his empire
Imagine if more of his grandsons had lived. Wbat would a fourfold or fivefold split look like?
@1LivelyRogue Any decent history of Charlemagne's times will be ok I think. But, yes, he split his realm between his three sons (France, Germany and Italy), and they of course immediately began fighting to get back what they hadn't been given.
What if daddy came home with his cigarettes?
You need to read On The Beach by Neville Shute, or watch the film which is as terrifying as the book.
Thanks for making my days better with all your videos on all your channels!❤
0 4:19 😊😊😊
You mention Hannibal close to taking Rome. THAT is a real What If
Historical dominoes are one of my favorite thought experiments. Mine is "what if France didn't help us in the Revolution?" Would France had had its revolution since it wouldn't be over burdened in debt? If not, it's safe to say no Napoleonic Wars and the colonization of North America would've had a different shape. Would it be safe it say World War 1 could've been fought in the western hemisphere?
Actually quite likely. There's quite a few historians that classify The Nine Year's War, The War of Spanish Succession, and The Seven Years War (known as French and Indian War within the US) as World Wars (along with a few others that occurred after your proposed POV.) All of these had battles in both Europe and North America. If you eliminate what we know as WW1 and WW2 from the timeline then the historians may have been able to retroactively rename those three world wide conflicts as WW 1, 2, and 3.
France likely would have had the revolution regardless of its debt problems, because it was already having debt problems. Was France strategic important in the revolutionary war or was it like the Italian front in WW2; a politically needed show of force from the west but we got the other front anyways.
@jonnunn4196 My European history teacher in high school once told us that the War of the Spanish Succession was "the most important war that you've never heard about." After we covered it, I understood why.
The Cuban missile crisis was in October 1962, not 1969. This a very good series of videos. It's a surprise that this basic mistake has not been rectified.
Suggestion for your warographics channel: What if the French had won the battle of the plains of Abraham?
As always, great video, awesome entertainment and a good laugh, well done Mr Simon
This is why I liked the concept of Sliders (90s sci-fi tv show) It was about alternative worlds- maybe they land on a planet where the Nazis won WWII or one where England won the civil war for America, etc. One of the few shows I want rebooted with better writers who are able to do the concept justice. The concept was brilliant. Unfortunately, they didn't have writing that lived up to the premise, but it was a really fun concept that should have been a great show, exploring all these 'what ifs.'
I liked Sliders also for the same reason. As for the writers. The original writers left/fired 2nd season over creative problems if I remember correctly. That is when the alien storyline started, again if I remember correctly.
2:21 - recently learned that my late great uncle took part in the first wave of D Day landings, 2 days after his 20th birthday
RUclips interrupted your add-read to play a dogfood add
i'd like to order magic spoon cereal, but its kind of on the pricey side.
just another sugary crap anyway
Yes it is
90% of WWII in Europe was fought on the Eastern front. The West, almost mere detail.
True, but without the Western and African fronts, even the Soviets would've been overrun by the Germans. The only way Germany was ever gonna lose was if they had to fight on multiple fronts. That's what killed them in both world wars.
I have always thought one of the most understated things about "What If" scenarios around WWII is that if things did not happen they way they did then there would have been no V-2s shipped to America with the scientists from Project Paperclip. This was the core of the American space program. Without this Von Braun would not have developed the Saturn V.....
Von Braun developed his work on that of Goddard, so it's possible that USA might have ultimately found someone in the USA to take forward Goddard's work.
One of your better presentations! Excellent work Simon and crew!
Actually it isn't.He/they got the dates wrong on the Cuban missile crisis
The whole history of the earth consists of way too many "would have, should have, could have" moments!
What a super general comment
@@maxwatson4545 In a meaningless nonsensical way.
@@maxwatson4545 It might be super general, but is it wrong?
In Simons reality the Cuba crisis was in 69 not in 62
The further back in time you go with what ifs the more world altering they become.
What if the ancestors never left Africa
My favorite what if is what if the Byzantines decided to buy the cannon that the guy subsequently sold to the Ottomans. Hell, they could have even turned them into a defensive weapon making the walls indestructible for another few hundred years
The great flood bit was really interesting to think about
You have to admit, what humans have accomplished in our relatively short evolution is kind of miraculous. We seem to have had technology early on that we can't explain or replicate today
Like what?
Like abacuses
I think there is a wrong assumption, that "ancient people were relatively stupid". They may have lacked technology, but they may have been as smart as today's people. Coming up with genuine genius ideas. It's technology that makes us stupider in a way in my opinion. You don't need a genius idea to do something when you have heavy duty equipment. As they say "scarcity brings up ingenuity". It's easy to say "they couldn't do it without a wheel", instead of thinking "ok we don't have a wheel how can we do it?".
I oft wonder how different the world might by if the Mongols were even more successful in their conquests. They once ruled over almost all of Asia, the beating heart of the entire planet. Imagine if they'd managed to push on and conquer the rest of Europe. Or if they successfully conquered all the Middle East and invaded Africa via Egypt. Or if they had a better navy and managed to conquer Japan, Indonesia, etc. Would they have continued on to Australia? Polynesia? Maybe even the Americas! Or perhaps they venture north on a whim and stumble on the Bering Strait, invading the Americas that way? Or even sail from Europe like Columbus did in our timeline?
I firmly believe it was the Mongols who came the closest to truly conquering the entire planet and unifying our species under a single Mongolian banner. 🇲🇳🌍🌏🌎🇲🇳
But they *DID* have a navy. The biggest on the planet. Twice. It got sunk by a storm. Twice. Japan didn't even have to actually do anything. Lol.
All hail our rightful Mongol overlords and based God-Emperor Chenghis. 🇲🇳🌍🌎🌏🇲🇳
What might have been under a single Mongol reign, we would all ride horses and be warriors and explorers. Hail the great Genghis!
I think a better what-if moment for the Roman Empire would have been to question “what if Hannibal had succeeded”.
In such a case, we might be talking about a longer-lasting Phoenician/Punic trading empire all across the Mediterranean and beyond, probably with fewer wars.
I can easily fall down a rabbit hole of what ifs, usually personal what ifs.
What if I didn't skip every single magic spoon commercial in existence?
I don't know, but it will never, ever happen
Again, in support of my 'humble' theory , Augustus had multiple reasons to hault expansion, not just the defeat.
Varus entered Germany proper as a puntive excursion to punish German raids into the 'Rhineland' and was not an invasion.
Later, when Germanicus retaliated, Simon Whistler pointed out that it was once again a revenge act.
Regardless of the forest disaster, Rome intended to seal its borders to the north, via control of the Rhine and Danube.
Cuban Missile Crisis was in 1962, not 1969. I am sure others have probably mentioned this also. Enjoyed the video in general.
Another more obscure ‘what if’ question. In 1785, Louis XVI and his Secretary of State of the Navy commissioned the French Naval officer, the Comte de La Perouse, to lead a voyage of discovery around the world, in part to complete James Cook’s exploration of the Pacific.
One of the applicants for the voyage was a 16 year young student at the military academy of Paris named Napoleon Bonaparte. He made the preliminary list, but not the final list.
The relevance is that La Perouse’s voyage lasted a few years. In late 1787 La Perouse heard the British were establishing a colony in Botany Bay, so he visited Botany Bay in late January 1788. He thought the colony would be well established by then, but in fact the First Fleet had only arrived a week before.
La Perouse sent his journals, notes and letters back to Europe with one of the ships that returned to Britain after leaving the first settlers in NSW. He and his crew left Botany Bay in March 1788, and were not seen again by Europeans. Had Napoleon been accepted on this voyage, European history would have been very different.
Freaking absolutely loved this video so much!!!
Okay I have a HUGE question, If magic spoon is grain free, (as indicated on the chart) What IS it made of? Inquiring minds want to know
No doubt, one of my favorite videos on this channel! When's part 2 coming??
I was born in October 1962. My dad worked for the Ministry of Defence. He seriously thought I'd not see my first Christmas.
"Plato, the guy who invented the plate." Holly - JMC Red Dwarf.
Simon’s a cereal killer. 😂
Nooooooooo!!! Too early for dad jokes😅😅😅
That battle of Teuteburg forest is a beautiful example, it really had severe consequences for the whole structure of central Europe! As always: well informed and researched, thank you! 😊
You know RUclips sucks when you're in video sponsor ad is interrupted by a crappy RUclips AD.
Very interesting video! Plenty of these “what if” situations! If you ever make another I would recommend looking into the Von Schlieffen plan. It had the Germans within miles of Paris in the first MONTH of WW1. Specifically what caused them to be “out-flanked” by the French’s last effort to stop them. Extremely interesting in my opinion.
The Roman defeat in the forest was a fantastic 'what if' much more eye openig than the others which seem to get much more attention.
What if Steiner's counterattack worked?
There is no "one" great flood. There have been too many flooding events, Black Sea, Med, Dogger Bank, tsunamis, not to mention the inspiration coming from the various sedimentary strata with fossilized sea dwellers. Love your show.
The idea of a great flood drowning the world makes a lot more sense when you consider that it wasn't all that long ago that a person's entire "world" ended about 20 miles from their hut and that the vast majority of people in history all lived on or near the coasts or major waterways.
Neolithic trade routes were surprisingly long so whilst one person might not have travelled all that far routinely, there was a concept of a wider world. Goods of some sorts were traded progressively over thousands of miles.
@@wbertie2604 True, but I was keeping it general. To most people, if everywhere they normally go is flooded back then, they'd think the whole world was that way.
@@Thedouchenugget I don't think that's true, though. Stories of conditions in other locations were almost certainly transmitted along with trade goods as people are naturally curious. Whilst creation myths will have their origin in experiences of large floods, by 4000 BCE there would have been understanding of large local floods not being global. They are myths and myths transcend actual objective understanding of the world.
Ok that last one blew my mind
I am convinced our forbears thirsted for conquest as much out of boredom as for glory or greed.
5:52 I've heard in seemingly legit videos that there is evidence that around 5000 years ago there was a quite big meteor crash in the Pacific that caused big tsunamis that flooded vast areas of land, reaching quite far into land, as well as days of practically worldwide uninterrupted rain, which caused a lot of flooding (they show the evidence and it can be checked). Not quite supernatural in origin, but a great worldwide flood nonetheless. It's possible that some species became extinct after the event, particularly those endemic to small extensions of land that happened to suffer quite a lot from the event, but mostly what there was before was more or less what remained after.
You don't even necessarily need a meteor. At the end of the last glacial period, sea levels were anything up to 100 metres lower than today. Obviously that water isn't going to be released in one go, but it will inundate large areas that had been land, and in some areas (like maybe around the Bosphorous or Gibraltar) you might have had tsunami like events as the sea broke through narrow valleys that are straits today.
@@ShanghaiRooster That's another hypothesis scholars keep in mind to explain the ubiquity of the myth, but I find it interesting that big enough meteor crash events are able to cause weeks-long nonstop rain, which is something all versions of the myth I've come across (although most likely I've only read a small percentage of htem) tend to center on.
If you want to know about burkle crator and the tsunami that followed. Oz geographics does a good explanation on it.
The Cuban Missile Crisis was 1962, not 1969. Doesn't change the scenario, but accuracy "Fact Boy"! 😊
What if, this morning, I didn’t wake up ever again and never watched this video. Would it have existed?
There is an interesting idea/thought experiment that builds on the idea of multiple worlds and qyantum mechanics. For any decision, any and all possible outcomes happen, each spawning its own universe. That means, fir all of these what ifs, there is a universe where that happened.
But beyond that, it means every time you nearly died, or the world nearly ended, there is a world where it did. Some people talk about "the darkest timeline" but that means there is a "brightest timeline" one where everything went right. To take it a step farther, people should take any and all risks, because while there may be many worlds/timelines where the risk fails, there are thise few where they don't. And the you that lives in those worlds is your best self, so take that risk, and it might be you.
WW2, Nucleur War, Great Flood Myths and Teutenburg Forest.
Thanks Simon that was brilliant
"what if my aunt were my uncle" doesn't seem like as much of a joke now
This episode had a real "Connections" vibe.
I'd argue that the two most important battles of world war II where Stalingrad and Midway, as D-Day was a given at that point it was just a matter of actually doing it.