My revolutionary new "4D character" theory
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2023
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I feel like this concept of 4D characters is going to be predominately apply to internet memes and other internet driven cultural products. Things like Big Chungas, having to understand what Looney Tunes is, understand the old iteration of Elmer Fudd as a heavier set dopey character and Bugs Bunny’s abilities to change his shape and mock his enemies for comedic effect, and understand the internet speak behind larger sized common pets like cats in order to understand it. Then you get into even crazier stuff like Sanegee, an original character created by meme/Death Battle ripoff channel Animation Rewind, which is a Dragon Ball-esce fusion of Sanic and Weegee, all 3 of which have their own dimensions of depth. Interesting idea
Most people interacting with the Big Chungas meme might actually NOT be educated about all the things it references, they just go along and mimic how others started using the character. I think there is a presumption of knowledge regarding how people see the meme.
Diddy Kong: Donkey Kong, King Kong, and a literal ape.
@@wonderplaceholder This, I think analyzing the number of layers a character has is interesting, but it's mostly unrelated to how memes spread (mostly by children). So I can't imagine the concept of 4D (or more) characters as being widespread.
Tmnt is also originally a direct parody of a line of daredevil comics
*chungus 🤓
An obvious example of 4D character would be the TMNT's. In fact, it's kind of the entire premise. It's baked right into the name! You need to understand 1) the American teenager stereotype and their behaviours, 2) the idea of mutants as depicted in media (especially comics), 3) the Japanese cultural archetype of the ninja, and 4) a stereotypical cartoon turtle.
The turtles are also themselves a satire of some other super hero franchise, I forget which, but like the Foot and all that is a deliberate parody of something
@@JJMcCullough Daredevil!
@@JJMcCullough cool! I didn't know that
@@JJMcCulloughThey are a parody of both Daredevil and X-Men (basically what was popular in comics at the time)
their names is also based on classicl painters
JJ didn’t say the word “American” until 7:07 into the video. That’s character development
5:58
but still
A Bechdel test for canadiana?
@@maxturgidson568 @nathanwithanathan has an hilarious video called “Every JJ McCollough Video Ever” And it has made me intensely aware of every time JJ says the word “American” in their videos
So proud of him :`)
@@maxturgidson568this comment is so funny lol
I think the Scott Pilgrim vs The World movie is an example of a large piece of work that's 4D. It's based on a comic book using early video game imagery as well as referencing Toronto and the indie rock community of the mid-00s
You can say that a bit about the comic all on its own.
@@hdfwk4wjj69wjvi8 and the video game for that matter (which my IRL friends Anamanaguchi scored (as in made the soundtrack for)).
Would "Scott Pilgrim vs. The World Ruined an Entire Generation of Women" by Negativexp be 5D?
lets go! negative Xp at the function with phonk and wojacks?@@JimmySee
The mummy from Mario seems like a different breed from the Barbie and the Croc boots. The mummy references the Halloween mummy which references the movie mummy which references the actual mummy. Meanwhile, the Croc boots reference Crocs and Astroboy boots, which in turn reference Astroboy. It seems the degree to which a character’s references relate to each other is a good descriptor. A 4D character that references 1 3D character seems different from one that references 3 1D characters.
I was feeling the same thing, but couldn't quite put it into words!
This is turning into graph theory.
Agree - one could map out the references in a cultural object based on the number of direct influences and also by the number of degrees contained in each reference. Then you could create a system of nomenclature for different mappings. The Mario Mummy could be, say, X(3) to indicate that it has one direct reference that is three degrees deep, while the Croc boots are X(2)Y(1) to show that there is one reference that is two degrees deep (Astroboy) and one that is just one degree (Croc). That would generalize JJ's concept to allow it to analyze and compare cultural objects of any complexity rather than just the "4D" ones.
Yeah that's where I disagree with this video entirely.
Everything is ♾️D in this vast interconnected world
This is all the social science called intertextuality. The mario mummy is an allusion to a stock character. The barbie is satire. The boots are pastiche. Intertextuality studies homage and parody and any form of derivative works.
I wonder if Rick from "Rick and Morty" be a good example of this? He is a caricature of Doc Brown from Back to the Future, and Doc Brown was a sort of fusion of Albert Einstein and the "mad scientist" of old scifi/horror films.
would the Joker "funniest shit I've ever seen" meme be like 5D or even 6D?
@AntonWongVideo I feel like that might open a whole can of worms 😆. A huge percentage of memes use this 3 degrees removed stuff.
I was originally going to use him as an example!
I heard that Nikola Tesla was the main inspiration for the mad scientist archetype.
Ah- beat me to it! lol. I'm glad someone mentioned him.
I really enjoyed the collage style animations in this one!
Thanks I got help with those!
It's spelled college, get an education
@@dallaselgin2636 In this case it is collage, which means a series of images.
How about you follow your own advice before judging people.
@@JJMcCullough It kinda looks like Internet Historian's style.
@@quokka_ytOh, I thought they were making a pun and a reference since a college is a place you go to get an education, and “get an education” is a common rude way to correct someone.
To fully appreciate the character Jorgan von Strangle from the animated series "Fairly Oddparents" you have to understand:
1. Arnold Schwarzenegger
2. A stereotypical military man/general
3. Magical Fairies
As a kid growing up watching the show, I had no idea who Arnold was, so I always saw Jorgan as "the muscular military guy & head honcho of the fairy godparents who also had a funny voice," while my parents got more of a kick out of his character design simply because they grew up when Arnold was at the height of his career. It seems like 4D characters can be effectively used as a way to design media that's "for the whole family," by making characters that generally appeal to children, but also have an added layer of reference that plays to the cultural literacy of their parents, sort of like an inside joke for the adults.
The same could be said of the character The Crimson Chin:
1) Jay Leno's most notable physical feature and career as a late-night show host
2) Radioactive bite as origin of Crimson Chin's powers is a reference to Spider-Man
3) Pun-based language used when speaking, searchlight symbol in the night sky, as well as a boy sidekick is referencing Batman, in particular the Adam West era of Batman
@@Ganymede2048 And then you had Cat Man, who was just Adam West's Batman without violating DC Copyright!
My biggest question/suggestion with the 4D character theory is... why 4? could there be a fifth dimensional character? what is special about 4 in specific? For your first example I really thought that we were going for some sort of category system, with three categories to fulfill. In the mummy enemy we have. 1. Real life mummies which are non-fictional historical entities. 2. An original universal movie, a single specific piece of art that is a clear inspiration for culture and other arts. 3. The pop culture of mummies as a halloween icon, which is sort of a people's tradition, like the birthday song or a festivity, not precisely a piece of art that somebody made or a factual historical event.
So one can say that if a character needs all three types of cultural influences to be understood, then it is a 4D character. Everyone understands that mummies are real historical things, that the mummy is a movie monster, and that a mummy is a cannonical halloween monster.
Otherwise one could say: the doctor sleep movie is a sequel to the shining movie, which is based on the shining novel, but also based on the doctor sleep novel, so those are three and so it is a four dimensional character, but all of them are kind of the same thing... a single piece of art made by someone. Or if we are just counting the number of steps, then theoretically one character can be n-dimensional and I really don't understand what is special about the fourth dimension.
I really think that there it could be interesting to do some work into what it means to be a dimension for this character, and what if any is special about four dimensions. Maybe you already thought about it.
Great interesting video btw!
I really like the idea of defining a 4D character based on those 3 aspects you mentioned (real life reference, art reference, pop culture reference). I feel it has more cultural meaning and also just makes more sense as a coherent concept.
I think the Mario mummy, the peepo meme and the Barbie could qualify for this definition.
the thing is this specific definition would not include the other things in the video which are also culturally complex and interesting, so I'm wondering what other more-specific definition could there be for a 4D character
@@shaniamibar5459 Yeah I get that they are kind of different ideas. Just I don't really know why he is talking specifically about 4 dimensions, in his explanation it could be whatever number really.
So maybe we can talk about in general multi-leveled characters, characters that need multiple levels of cultural knowledge to understand fully, but that there are three fundamental reduced dimensions in which a character can pull inspiration from, which is real life, pop culture and art.
Because that is what I think when I think about dimensions, I think about the dimensions of movement a point can have in a 2D plane for instance.
@@diegog1853 Pretty sure the number is somewhat arbitrary - if it's too low there's going to be loads of examples and if it's too high there'll only be a few so it's not a useful label in either case (except for comparison as you alluded to). Also the terms 2D and 3D character already have both literal and figurative meanings - so the concept is unlikely to take off if he used one of those.
Think about a 15 year old today. They probably learned about the Halloween mummy first as child going trick or treating. Then they probably learned about King Tut and Egypt from going to museums or children's books on ancient Egypt and archeology. The middle step of the universal monster mummy movies isn't really necessary to understand the Nintendo character. It's just a take on the Halloween costume. Sure you could trace it's origins back to the 1920s but why stop there. To understand King Tut and Egyptian burial fully you need to understand the Egyptian Book of the Dead, you need to read Egyptian hieroglyphics, you'd probably need more context that's been lost to history. You could take it back further. You need to understand civilization as a whole to get why humans bury their dead and what kings are. You need to understand evolution to know what humans are. You need to understand organic chemistry to understand what living beings are. You need to understand astrophysics to understand what the earth is. It's turtles all the way down.
@@lemmyorleans you are taking it to unnecessary extremes. Which I understand it is your point. Although I am not sure if you are making fun of me or the original concept of the video.
I mean part of the reason why I proposed separation of categories, was precisely because one can have an arbitrary number of steps to understand a cultural object, understanding astrophysics, bio chemistry, understand the history of burials and all that... everything fits within non-fiction, it is a dimension in which one can explore the meaning of the cultural object as deep as they want.
I honestly disagree with your assertion that knowing that a mummy is a movie monster is not necessary to understand the overall cultural significance of a mummy character. Of course nothing is strictly "necessary" and you could in principle understand the mummy mario character by just knowing one element, either as a historical practice, a movie monster, or a halloween tradition.
But it is just hard to deny that a mummy has a prevelant status as a movie monster in its cultural relevance, it is part of the reason why there are mummy movies every few years, like the previous tom Cruise attempt. I mean The Mummy is a household movie title, just like indiana jones or frankenstein.
To me it is just hard to deny that being such a popular character to produce films with is an important element of its cultural meaning.
This would be a fun game to play with other people - Identify the 3 cultural references that make up the 4D character within a certain amount of time (15~30 seconds)!
Millennials would have the biggest advantage of this game, we are young enough to understand the final character and old enough to undestand the throwback references (or at least know of them)
Does Count Chocula qualify?
1.)Vampire lore
2.)Stoker's "Count Dracula"
3.)Chocolate
4.)The cereal mascot himself
I don't think chocolate would count
@@californiaraisin8848 eh, maybe not, then
i would swap "chocolate" with "cereal" as a concept
To allow this term to convey something meaningful, I feel like there has to be some set of rules or a definition of what makes an input sufficiently complex to count as a "dimension"?
I don't feel like Count Cholula himself is as culturally complex as some of the characters J.J. named, though referencing the Count Cholula character in a video or making a joke that involves him might reach that level. On the other hand, it could be argued that the concept of a mascot is itself a multi-dimensional idea. It's really not hard to grasp at this point, but how many layers of explanation would be required to explain the idea to a hypothetical alien? (Corporate ownership of a character, character represents the product, the character itself may have no connection to the product but rather the product share some traits or history with it, etc.)
@JordanGlawe90 processed foods, branding, advertising, horror as a genre, supernatural concepts, folklore, literature, parody, mascots, wordplay
It'd be alot. I'm guessing they'd have their own versions of some of these concepts though.
There are definitely some Pokemon that qualify as 4D characters. First one that comes to mind is Lechonk: it requires knowing about pigs, the slang term "chonk," and the dish lechon. There are loads of these.
Ludicolo
Lechón is piglet in Spanish.
Came here to say this - so many pokémon are 4D characters
So yeah, I kinda feel like this 4D Character thing works well in the context you've provided; a specific set of related objects that can be described as more or less influenced by other works. When this sort of analysis is being used for any and every character/object in existence, it's just turtles all the way down.
I think it is important to differentiate between different kinds of "ancestors" to the character: mumsie is 4th generation of mummy culture with little outside interference, but the virgin barbie is a combination of 2 different "parents", in one side it's a 3rd generation (Mary, Guadalupe, this) and in the other it's a 2nd (barbie, this).
And the green grimace has 3 unrelated "parents" and no "grandparents" (the shake, irish traditions, grimace).
One piece of Jargon JJ introduced which I really like is "alphabet privilege". This is the idea that languages which use the Latin Alphabet usually get names written authentically, while other languages have to transliterate names.
I personally like the 'Gross Pizza Rule'. Although I tend to call it "McCullough's Law".
Basically, if an opinion exists, someone on the internet adheres to it.
@@k-techpl7222 which video was that in?
An irony that comes from this video is that postmodernism is translated to Greek as μεταμοντερνισμός, /metamodernismós/ (post = meta). How could one translate metamodernism?
@@burnin8orable His video on the laws of the internet from 2015. ruclips.net/video/xvO4SWMG7Wk/видео.htmlsi=2BTasPVWcLv8KTuH
I personally even rephrased this rule in more abstract terms: If an opinion is imaginable, it is holdable.
Keeping with the Nintendo train that kicked this off, I think the character of Meowth as he appears in the Pokemon anime series is a pretty good example of a 4D character. To understand Meowth, you need to know of and be aware of A. Cats in general, B. the symbol of the Maneki-Neko, the beckoning cat figure that Meowth is based on and C. the sort of old timey portrayals of gangsters that Meowth's original voice actress the late, great Maddie Blaustein based Meowth's voice and mannerisms on. All of this on top of the general concept of Pokemon being abstractions of real world ideas such as animals.
I think he will have to reframe the concept as an enhanced appreciation, not an understanding. You don't need to know anything about mummies to defeat the villain in a mario game. You don't need to understand the intertextuality of a Fun World mask, Munch's The Scream of Nature, Pink Floyd's The Wall, or Betty Boop Ghosts to appreciate a Scream movie.
The anime character is also based on the video game version.
The Baltimore Ravens might be an example of a “4-D” team name. Named of course after the bird and a poem by Edgar Allen Poe. Which in turn the poem has many references to folk, mythological and classical references to Ravens as a symbol of death.
This sent me on a search because I had NO idea that's what the Ravens are named after.
Sports teams seem like a good source for this. My mind goes to the New Orleans Saints. It references the city’s jazz history, the original Christian hymn that became a jazz standard, and the passages from the Book of Revelations that the hymn is about.
It also probably helps that Baltimore's other major league professional team - the Baltimore Orioles - is named after a bird.
Baltimore needs an MLS team to complete the trinity- but it would need a good name... I'll propose the "Baltimore Drunken Ducks", as it keeps the bird theme going, and references another Baltimore cultural icon in The Wire, specifically the ill-fated pet of ill-fated Dock worker Ziggy Sobotka.
An interesting level to this is that Baltimore has claimed Poe, due to him dying there, but Poe identified himself as coming from Virginia. Many of the dramas of his life relate to his experiences wanting to get his education in Richmond and his family failing to support him in this.
Sorry this isn't related, but after years of watching your videos, I am finally in Canada!! I'm in Banff rn, and omg Canada is such a beautiful country, but the experience is so much richer for being able to understand the cultural and historical significance. Thank you so much JJ ❤️
Welcome to Canada!
I live in Alberta but I've been to many places around the world. I think Banff is the ultimate destination. I actually honeymooned there. I didn't even have to take a plane.
@@gerardacronin334 Thank you!! ❤️
TS Eliot did an essay called "Tradition and the Individual Talent" where he believed that if artists wanted to create art with lasting impact, they needed to understand the art and culture of the past and make work that fits in with it while still making something new. If you wanted to make an art manifesto with multiple social media profiles and a website you could reference that.
"Are You Winning Sisyphus? (Behold! a Meme! - Ep.1)", a RUclips video by the channel kolpeshtheyardstick was a video where I thought essentially along the same lines. It is one of the funniest things I have ever seen, and it relies on going through a meme that requires a decent amount of cultural knowledge to understand, and in so doing uses increasing amounts of Zoomer Humour to the point that the video itself is hard to follow out of context, further underlining its own point. It's honestly a masterful example of everything you're talking about in this video, though I don't know exactly how many degrees of cultural knowledge one could say it really relies on.
Thanks for sharing this because I loved it.
My man JJ went from award-winning to revolutionary - what a glow-up!
JJ's award winning revolutionary concept.
I think you've misunderstood how much the average person knows or cares where their terms come from other than a passing curiosity. I've heard of all the terms you brought up but have never even once till now heard of the names of the people who coined those terms.
My partner and I were thinking this exact thing. It's only randomly that I investigate the people who coined a phrase or had an idea or whatever.
JJ, great video and great concept of the 4D Character jargon.
So, let me take a shot...
In December, Timotheé Chalamet will star in the prequel "Wonka."
It's a 4D character because he'd be an amalgamation of (1) Roald Dahl's character Willy Wonka from his book "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory", (2) the Wonka candy introduced originally by the Quaker Oats Food Co. and (3) the prequel adaptation of Gene Wilder's portrayal of the character himself from the 1971 movie "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory."
How'd I do...?? 😇
That’s pretty good!!
@@JJMcCullough
Thanks for your kind words, JJ.
Also, I was in your fair country last week. Montréal and Quebec City.
@@JJMcCullough Wait so something that's readapted three times counts as a 4D thing?
Don't be shy JJ, you can show us yourself wearing that MSCHF red boot drip!!
Re:4D Characters, I've found this among the "aesthetics" and "cores" within the fashion and design space (as well as beauty, hair, and accessories)
people referring to certain outfits or "looks" as "Gothic Whimsy" or "Frog and Toad-core" really require previous knowledge of things
I've got a Pinterest board titled "Romantic Chemicals" which references the "aesthetics" of My Chemical Romance which itself is inspired by other things including Emo music and Marching Parade uniforms
I'd love to see your Pinterest board as a diehard MCR fan. 🖤
In some of your examples, I felt like the distinction was unclear between 4 dimensions of cultural context and 1 dimension of context which has morphed over time. I would be interested in hearing about this distinction some more.
yeah, i feel like concepts that has morphed overtime should not count as 4-d characters. In order for me to think this concept of 4d chracters to make sense and be useful then each dimension needs to be a completely separate dimension not connected to the other dimensions.
Grimace had a *little* more complexity to him originally, because he was supposed to be an antagonist, a multi-armed monster who specifically stole milkshakes. I think he was supposed to be a sort of amorphous child's boogeyman character, like the "Monsters Inc." monsters, signifying scariness but not too scary in himself. But most of those aspects dropped away from him pretty quickly.
10:59 Nice to spot Bandit, the father from Australian children's show 'Bluey'. I was watching it recently with my sons and noticed a reference which might be 4D. Bandit and his wife, Chili, were making Swedish flat pack furniture but he wasn't going to read the instructions. Chili reminded him to follow what the cartoon dog does to which he responds 'I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog!'
So you have Bandit from Blue, Ikea and their cartoon instructions, the trope that men/dads know best and won't ask for help and finally that Bandit is actually seen as a parental role model to many millennial parents, therefore many people are now taking advice from a cartoon dog in the real world.
Perhaps it would help refine the 4-D character concept to separate those that are linear or chronological from those that are not.
As you explained, Mumsies came about from a very pyramidal building of cultural relevance, each a stage that is influenced from what came before and influences what comes after.
Uncle Grimacy, on the other hand, does not show such an evolutionary progression of a cultural symbol, but instead exists as a character with separate facets to their identity that have combined to form a new 4D entity.
That’s a good point
I really loved the way you summed up this really nebulous idea. I was browsing a vintage Polaroid Wiki recently, and I came across an entry just called: Taz. Turns out it was a typical Polaroid camera produced in the late 90's, likely as a merch to go with Taz-Mania; a 90's cartoon surrounding the Looney Tunes character. The main dimensions of this character, I believe, are Polaroid as a company and cultural element of the 20th century, Taz the Looney Tunes Character, and Television Merch.
I definitely want a follow up video. I also had the thought that if i use this as a template whem creating a character. Making 4d characters is a good way to think creatively. It reminds me of an art exercises where we drew 3 random words from a hat and had to draw something incorporating all 3.
JJ, I don't use the word "hero" often, but you are the greatest hero in Canadian history. 🇨🇦
is this a 4D reference?
@@SocieteRoyaleIt could be.
1. Heroes were originally mythical heroes were ones fighting for honor or glory.
2. The word “hero” then became more commonly used to refer to a saviour, stopping bad guys.
3. Then the word became synonymous with “protagonist”.
4. Today the word “hero” can be used to refer to a person who makes great RUclips videos.
@@JuanMPalacio guys chill it's just a Simpsons reference.
I very much like JJs vids
@etrestre9403 That's right! That's why you're the judge and I'm the law...thingy.
@@insertnamehere3106 the lawyer?
last week's video was one of my all time favorites and this video was still an excellent "short" video, getting the idea out there and seeing the responses will be fascinating and a longer video wasn't needed! great work in the past and into the future :D
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning behind some of these. For example, with the mummy, you include the predecessors to the stereotypical cartoon mummy archetype, but with the big mac police guy, you didn't include the concept of actual police as well as the cartoon stereotype of a police officer. Also, you didn't include Mario or video games or video game enemies as things you'd need to understand to get the mummy bad guy. I would say that a good rule for these would be to just include the top level abstraction, which itself would have other nodes branching off. Together, you could form whole graphs of linked cultural artefacts. Hey, I have my own jargon I just made up: "cultural graph theory".
As a bonus, I'd say that the Mario mummy includes another cultural icon you'd need to be familiar with: the idea of the toy pull string. That archetypical handle and the fact that it implies you can pull it is itself a cultural icon.
As to how to improve it - there does seem to be a major difference between these examples: ones like the mummy are just a series of consecutive evolutions, whereby one iteration gives rise to the other. I'd call that linear 4D Characters (aka 4DCs, because I'm lazy). On the other hand you have ones that just take 3 unrelated concepts and roll them into one, like the McDonalds what'sitface. I'd call that a non-linear 4DC. And wherever there are two extremes, there is also a middle, so a 4DC, where some concepts are evolutions, but others are unrelated, like in that Virgin Mary Barbie blasphemy you showed, whereby the Argentine Mary is an evolution of the Virgin Mary, but then Barbie is wholly unrelated. Let's call that a semi-linear 4DC.
You were right, JJ, the extra time you spent on the production value of the past few videos really shows!
I think the "dimensionality" of a character is better referred to by how many layers deep the graph goes instead of how many pieces it is composed of.
In the case of Officer Big Mac:
Officer Big Mac - Big Mac, Police Officer
Big Mac - Hamburger, McDonalds
McDonalds - fast food, restaraunts
How many dimensions would Officer Big Mac be knowing that the culturual pieces he's made from require their own understanding of other cultural pieces
Banger video as always.
I think the only 4-D character I can think of off of the top is Saitama from One Punch man because of a couple factors.
1. He is a shounen male action hero in the vein of other characters like Goku and Naruto
2. His costume and setting are rich with iconography of American superhero comics
3. His bland “normal” looking appearance and mannerisms have a very “modern webcomic” look unique to the internet age
Another great award winning video JJ
So I've often thought of this process in terms of "Memetic DNA" that is, understanding cultural objects through the way there influencing texts mixed to create new cultural objects.
I noticed you had a picture of Luffy as a "1D" character, and I'd argue that Luffy is actually quite a few dimensions deep. He's a plucky shounen protagonist in the style of Goku from Dragon Ball, set in a pirate-adventure world seemingly inspired by Treasure Island and similar stories, and with the elastic superpowers of Plastic Man or Mr. Fantastic in lieu of Goku's superhuman strength.
So we could potentially make the equation of Goku+Jim Hawkins+Plastic Man=Luffy. There are obviously other influences in there, but those are some of the biggest ones.
But of course, we could break this down further; Dragon Ball was inspired by the Chinese novel Journey to the West, alongside combining the martial arts action of manga like Fist of the North Star and the youthful can-do attitude of sports manga like Captain Tsubaba. In this regard, Sun Wukong+Kenshiro+Tsubasa Oozoro=Goku. Then take that finished product, add Jim Hawkins and Plastic Man, and get Luffy.
And we could continue breaking these referents down further, tracing back the influences of each component character/text/concept as they synthesize to create new cultural objects. Kenshiro can be seen as a mixture of Mad Max, Bruce Lee, and Violence Jack; Violence Jack was largely a sequel to Devilman, which was inspired by Superman and Dante's Inferno; and so on and so forth. Each of these elements has less influence with each successive generation, but still contribute to the process of creating a given cultural object.
One example that immediately came to me for 4D characters are Pokémon designs, specifically the more recent ones. After 1000 designs it’s a lot harder to get away with one note concepts, this leads to creature designs like Sandy Shocks from the most recent Pokémon game. This design requires a knowledge of magnets and magnetic sand, magneton itself, stereotypical caveman appearances which themselves are based on actual cavemen. There’s many more examples I could list as well, this is just the first that came to mind
Always love your videos bro, but your cultural observation ones are always my fave, thanx! Keep up the great work!
Not really a 4d character but a simulacrum thingy like the ones from the beginning: Defunct pop group Kaachi. Kaachi was a British pop group that were basically wannabe K-pop. All the members were British, living in Britain, under a British label, and they did not live, record, perform or promote in South Korea. They did, however, sing in Korean and go through the standard K-pop trainee system. I think of it like this
Layer 1: South Korea
Layer 2: Traditional Korean Art And Culture (Trot, Etc)
Layer 3: K-pop
Layer 4: Kaachi
funny that you mentioned barbie, because i think many barbie dolls could apply. she is by default derivative of an archetypal fashionable american woman, often a specific celebrity. add to that a themed profession or holiday or brand collaboration and you have your 3 layers.
Now I'm looking at various objects in my room and trying to deconstruct them into their component cultural pieces thank you I'll be busy for a while
0:30 “so for example-“ _proceeds to list off three people whom I’ve never heard of before in my life_
Whose fault is that?
Truly an award winner video J.J.
4D characters seem especially prevalent in the superhero genre, particularly with regards to sidekicks. I think of Nightwing, whom the first Robin (Dick Grayson) grew up to create as his own independent superhero when he moved away from Gotham. One must have knowledge of bats, a 2D bat-themed superhero called Batman, and his 3D sidekick Robin who has the secret identity Dick Grayson to synthesize into the 4D Nightwing.
Enjoying your experimentation with animation, looking forward to seeing more
I'm curious to see how far this rabbithole gets, being able to identify the "character" with the highest number of dimensions. I can also see how one could quickly make trees of these, where to get the dimensions of something, you'd have to add up the numbers of those it branches from. I'm sure things don't stop at 4, but it would be helpful to define where the line is where things are a single dimension of complexity vs being considered several.
A detail you will need to add is the type of relationship between the predecessors. The mumsy is 4th in a direct line of cultural development while the yellow boots combine the red boots which refer to Astroboy with Crocs.
Love seeing Crocs here. I’m not young, and was only peripherally aware of them and the “controversy” over their styling.
I’ll just say I got my own pair recently, and as someone with big feet who always had trouble finding shoes that fit and are comfortable - Crocs were a life changing experience.
I think getting clearer on the distinct axes/dimensions of cultural knowledge that are required to understand a 4d character will help clarify this concept. As others pointed out, Mumsy is more of a direct great-grandchild of actual mummies, as opposed to a clear intersection of 4 discrete lineages.
By contrast, the Funko Pops you showcased in your top 10 American cultural trends tend to be complex intersections of concepts that require discrete understandings.
Incredible animation on this one JJ. The extra time and budget that went into this is obvious
The "xD" diagrams are really visually appealing. Love this idea of multiple cultural abstractions as part of our understanding. I was thinking while you were talking about using the word "cultural". I may be misunderstanding but it seems like there is a difference between an expectation of understanding in your own culture versus knowing an element or multiple elements of a other culture which seems like it would be more complex like a xD' (prime) if the connection extends across cultures from the person expected to understand them. I am probably making it more complicated but I love your concept!!
Every time I see that Thomas Jefferson Miku Binder picture I take psychic damage
One example of this that I can think of (which is going to be kind of hard to explain because I'm a Gen Z'er and this is a VERY Gen Z concept) is the meme "Sansmaeda" which is a joke about 'shipping' the fictional characters Sans and Nagito Komaeda. It takes a whole bunch of things to fully understand it:
-'Shipping' culture, which is about making/engaging in fan content about romantic relationships between fictional characters/celebrities
-The character Sans from the video game Undertale
-The character Nagito Komaeda from the video game Super Danganronpa 2
-The concept of 'Tumblr Sexymen', fictional male characters that became popular on the social media website Tumblr (Sans and Komaeda are seen as shining examples of Tumblr Sexymen, which is why people joke about shipping them)
And then, of course, all those concepts have deeper levels as well. This was a very interesting video, and I definitely think a lot of the things you talk about apply particularly well to Gen Z meme culture.
Excellent work. I look forward to your forthcoming dissertation defense
Thank you for posting another Nebula extended cut! I wasn’t sure if that was going to be a one-time occurrence after the “American things” video a few weeks back. (Had to comment here since Nebula still doesn’t seem to have a commenting feature 😅)
nebula not having a comment feature is a deliberate choice. The creators feel that the main value of a comment section is for commentors to add their perspective through conversation, which they believe is better facilitated off-platform, on places like reddit and discord, so the creators, especially creators that have experienced extensive harassment, can choose to opt-in and regulate their exposure to feedback, and also not be forced to a)moderate it or b)have their content presented alongside commentary that may be harmful or abusive, since a discord server or subreddit can be community moderated
I believe 4d characters may be a tad too vague. JJ brought up Officer Big Mac as an example of a non-4d character, but depending on how you look at it he could be one, because not only do you need to understand what a police officer and a big mac is, but you have to understand what a hamburger is in the first place which itself could be seen as another layer of culture, because they are a proper piece of culture as well that not every single human would understand at first glance
That’s true, but I think Big Mac and burger are similar enough concepts. But I can see your point.
I love the idea of the 4d character. I'll be sure to credit you when I eventually describe concepts to other people.
So do I, but I do have one question: Why is four-D considered the milestone for notability, as opposed to 3D or 5D? Is there a sharp dropoff in numbers of 3D Characters vs. 4D Characters? Or is this a reference to Baudrillard's work?
As the culture conversation continues to cross pollinate/reference, can we expect a proliferation of 4D characters? What happens when a character is made from two or more 4D characters? Is there a limit to how much this can happen? If so, what is it and why? What is the extent the internet plays in this trend? Why? What extent does postwar consumer culture play into this? As Gen Z plays a more active role in setting cultural boundaries, can we expect a shift, slow down, or acceleration. I’m curious about what everyone’s take is on this. Hope this is somewhat coherent/relevant.
Would you also consider jokes as possible 4D characters? I've often found myself laughing at a joke where I have to explain the context of 3 different, separate influences and this is a great way to simplify why a joke can sometimes be a lot to explain
Absolutely
do you have an example of such a joke?
This new animation style give a nice fresh depth and nice visual representation of what J.J is saying. It works. And it works well.
It immediately made me think of Internet Historian, which I liked.
I think it will be interesting to figure out what kind of stuff will be featured more in 4d caricatures and what will be featured less
it was interesting to see you experiment with your style this video
Hi JJ, Thanks for this great video.
Throughout the video, while I was hooked, I could not keep myself from wondering "Why 4?". It looks a bit arbitrary no? Why not 3, 5, 6 dimensional characters?
Looking forward to your answer, thanks again for the great effort on each of your videos!
I think it’s hard to get to four, and extremely hard to get over four
@@JJMcCullough
I'm not sure I see the difference between what you're talking about and the general idea of mishmashing distinct things to produce distinct works, and allusions in general?
Wouldn't Ready Player One be an example of something thats more than a 4D character?
How about Space Jam 2?
Tell me if I'm getting it, or not.
As many people have pointed out, this concept reminded me of internet memes and more specifically of the concept of internet meme tiers. The proliferation and mass production of internet memes has led to a series of memes that not only are filled with references even at their most basic form but also are combinations or mutations or previous memes that only make sense if you are aware of those memes. What people call Tier 2 or Tier 3 memes. There have been cases of meme images or videos that were created in which the joke is that it is purposefully layered, like removing the words of an image macro and replacing them with other memes.
I like this theory! To me, I see it more as an exercise to explicate a work as opposed to a benchmark for the quality of a character's creativity. Working backwards, this is also a great brainstorming tool for all different kinds of design. Traditions and references embedded in a character like the original "Barbie" could probably be extrapolated in this way for hundreds if not thousands of dimensions if you keep looking for the finer details.
At 6:32. I would definitely argue that Grimace is a 4-D character. 1) Because the idea of puppetry in Western culture arose from the Commedia dell'arte, an Italian comedy tradition that arose in the 1700s and became highly popular in France and England. 2) Commedia dell'arte gave rise to the "Punch and Judy" puppet shows popular in England in the 1800s. 3) Which then gave rise to Jim Henson's experimentations with muppets in the mid-1900s, or plush puppets with human controllers contained within. 4) Thus giving rise to Grimace, a muppet mascot of McDonald's immediately inspired by Jim Henson's innovations with puppetry.
I feel like Creepypastas and Internet Horror Specifically would be really good goldmines for 4D Characters. Think about how detached from actual Real-World Animatronic stage performers Freddy Fazbear is at this point. And to understand Sonic.EXE, you need to first understand: Sonic the Hedgehog the Video Game Character, Hostile Computer Viruses, Demons and THEN Sonic.exe as a unique character detached from all 3 of those (he's 5D if you add Bad Writing)
There's a pretty culturally loaded Street Fighter character who might fit this mold. She is this snobby rich girl (called Karin coincidentally) who has a couple cultural signifiers thrown on her. 1. She has this curly ringlet hairstyle that has become a meme in Japanese anime and video games to signify a rich or noble woman, apparently derived from an ancient Roman style. 2. Although she is meant to be Japanese she doesn't really look like it--but she wears a Japanese schoolgirl uniform to signify her as such, (which despite being a Japanese icon is of course itself derived from Western fashion). 3. In later iterations she actually pairs a pleated schoolgirl style skirt with something like an... 18th century style frock coat? Another symbol that she is high status.
Not just from any Western fashion, but from a sailor suit, an old nautical military uniform that turned into a standard type of children's outfit in the 19th and early 20th century. That's a couple more degrees of complexity right there.
@@MattMcIrvin I know of at least one photo of my grandfather as a young boy wearing a sailor suit in the 20s.
I'm surprised that Karin was the pick but, I can think of a lot of examples from street fighter and fighting games more broadly. It's likely a result of the character design necessities through present in the genre or characters. Need to have a immediately identifiable qualities in their designs. these are often cultural.
The Nike x Louis Vuitton Air Force 1 shoe designed by Virgil Abloh is a perfect case study - combining two equally iconic pop culture things like the Nike AF1 silhouette and Louis Vuitton leather patterns is mindblowing enough, but on TOP of that you have Virgil's design features of Helvetica text and quotation marks all over the surface of the shoes (which he famously did to many other Nike silhouettes with his project "The Ten" in 2017) and you got the most culturally insane and jampacked footwear literally ever
Great video ! More on this topic would be awesome 😎
I think you mentioned a nice addition to the theory: inheritance. If some cultural object derives directly from another, which in turn derives from X others, does the first object count as 1d or X+1d? I'm not sure if distinguishing "generational influence" like that is helpful, but as a programmer it's the first thing I thought of when I saw the graphs
Example
@@JJMcCullough In your mschf crocs example you have two sources of influence for the Big Yellow Crocs (D), crocs (C), and the Big Red Boots(B), and then state that the Big Red Boots were in turn inspired by Astro Boy (A), lending the final Big Yellow Crocs three contributing cultural features. Do you think there is any value in distinguishing between the way this cultural product way made (((A->B)+C)->D) versus the Mummy example, which was purely linear with each mummy character being inspired by the previous, versus the example someone gave below of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles which are built of concepts which were completely separate all at once at the inception of the Turtles, instead of being incorporated over time?
@@JJMcCulloughmaybe typical fantasy elves? Most fantasy elves (such as dnd elves) are more or less a direct take on tolkein elves which in turn have many nordic, galic, etc. Influances.
A great example of this are the pokemon characters, there is a guy on RUclips called lockstin who makes videos deconstructing pokemon and thier cultural inspirations. Understanding these origins through these videos have helped me to appreciate pokemon that I never liked that much before.
The vigilante, Red Tool, is a great example. He is a tool themed satire of deadpool, who in itself was a parody/rip of deathstroke.
This is super interesting and maybe can explain the obsession in streetwear to « collaborations » where the product tends to reference multiple cultural characters . What makes it cool is that to understand the product you must also understand where it comes from or, it’s numerous cultural reference.
Interesting....This may be something that I can use in marketing some of my Dad's artwork. His work spans the Cold War to Putin, traditional to mostly abstract/graphic design/cartoon, and mixed media. He had a "period" that embodies the dimensionality J.J. discussed here.
My father's pieces always had complexity, but I think being able to frame actually understand and convey the details/dimensions better will help me find people who will appreciate his work.
I hope this makes some sense, as you comment helped me look at the situation from another perspective. Thanks! ✌️😎
Some regional foods may qualify. I recently went to Virginia and had a pulled pork BBQ sandwich into which coleslaw was embedded. As covered earlier sandwiches are "relatively" new, so BBQ between two pieces of bread was fairly easy to understand while traveling in the South USA. And coleslaw with a BBQ picnic is not uncommon either. But to see that all mashed together as a single product required some explanation from my Virginian friend. I suspect regional pizzas, hot dogs, and even other foods may fall into that category. Like an omelette is it's own creation, but a "Denver Omelette" is definitely different from Torta or Omurice.
Those Virginia pulled-pork BBQ sandwiches with that coleslaw layer are something I've been sorely missing out here in California. The best one I had was from a diner in Norfolk, which also served a "Scope" float, that included orange sherbet, reminiscent of a creamsicle flavor.
Takes me back a few years....😸
"Hello friends. My name is JJ" If we are friends, by default don't we know your name?
Having discovered my central paradox I will now dissolve into nothingness.
@@JJMcCullough You will do no such thing. This is by far one of my all time favorite channels
Hi JJ- This is Linda of WHAT IS METAMODERN? Wanted to first say thanks for mentioning our website et al. Yep, we examine culture through the lens of a theory of metamodernism, but just for the record we don’t claim to have coined the term or to have been the first to apply it to the analysis of various kinds of cultural products. … There’s a dynamic network of critics and thinkers in conversation on this. (Though maybe our multiple platforms are among the “bossiest” about it? LOL)
You make the point that we are living in an era with more cultural complexity … Facts! It’s in the sense that you described - the multiple layers of reflexivity (AKA "cross-pollinating and cross-referencing” ) and callback loops (AKA intertextuality on steroids)- as being something new to culture writ large in the last 25ish years that calls out for deeper study of what is going on here. So we have that in common. On one hand, that's a central part of this thing referred to as the metamodern turn that we try to document on our website. That said, there are specific qualities that help distinguish metamodern intertextuality from postmodern intertextuality-something that might or might not apply to your 4D concept. (In brief, we're seeing metamodern intertextuality create a space where a viewer/reader/audience can grab onto MORE meaning, whereas in PoMo, intertextuality seems to serve mainly to remind the viewer that they are engaging something that is a media creation.)
I’d be interested to hear more about why you feel that whatever’s after postmodernism will not be coalescing into an equivalent cultural phase or episteme any time soon. Cheers!
Your idea of 4D characters reminds me of triple entendres in music lyrics, mostly hip hop. I loved this video JJ
I think we can push this even further. Take Waluigi for example. He is a combination of Wario and Luigi, who are derivative of Mario, and who himself is already a 4d character. He is the product of Italian-American stereotypes, plumbers, and his original Jumpman incarnation. Making Waluigi a 7d character.
If you want to push it further, it’s arguable that Jumpman was inspired by Popeye, which is a spin off character from Thimble Theater and inspired by old timey navy culture. With that in mind Waluigi is an obscene 10d character!
I would personally say Waluigi is only 4D (Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi) because I don’t think Mario was actually consciously designed to allude to anything specific, at least at first. As I discuss in another award-winning video.
Ok interesting. So you would say that the allusions would have to be a concious decision to count?@@JJMcCullough
@@JJMcCullough Also which award winning video? :)
@@michaelwells529 hmm not exactly, but I would say they have to be relatively unambiguous.
@@JJMcCullough Ok so to be clasified as a 4D character, the other dimensions have to be understood to understand the character right? With that in mind I would say that Mario WAS a 4D character in the 80's/ early 90's, but not anymore. Nowadays everyone accepts Mario for who he is and may not even know anything about his roots or even that he's a plumber. So going back to Waluigi, he is only 4D because you don't need to understand any of the other dimensions of Mario to understand him in his modern form. Does that make sense? Would Waluigi have been a 5D or more character back in the early 90's?
jj you should do a video about the whole North American middle class "Europe gap year that aunt/uncle never stops talking about" phenomenon
The what?
@@JJMcCullough I think they're talking about people who go on vacations and don't stop talking about it, but that's not really an exclusively middle class or North American thing
@@JJMcCullough idk the idea that middle class Americans will go on one very distinct, usually "Semester abroad" sort of vacation before they are married or have kids, then get married and have kids, then because their life is much more narrow, refer constantly to their one trip into the sunlight of "perfect Europe" - In some of your other videos you reference the phenomenon of unpatriotic Americans and I think this is just one little facet of that.
@@emersongrace4815 oh yes
People do that in Europe too.
very interesting topic, and would also be a great conversation starter at any group setting.
The sentence/meme "Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history" is interesting when viewed from this lens. To understand it as it is used in context, you need to understand:
1) Avengers: Infinity War
2) The concept of a "crossover event"
3) The alternative "crossover event" which it is being compared to,
thus you get:
4) the meme itself.
and 3) in turn requires you to understand the component parts of the alternative crossover. Perhaps in isolation the sentence or the image macro containing it doesn't count as a "character" in the sense that you're using it, but as it became a meme, I think that elevates it to its own distinct piece of culture. However, as a meme the third element becomes nonspecific and interchangeable by its very nature. So perhaps depending on how you look at it, it always lacks either the distinct identity of the fourth dimension or the consistency of the third.
“Cansplain” “Fauxthentic” J.J. you have already given us soooo much jargon lol.
I see you’ve been practicing your collage animation skills, JJ. Impressive indeed
Love JJs videos!
I think Bugs Bunny is an early 4D character. He's an animated cartoon, he refers to real life rabbits, he refers to folklore rabbits, and he refers to vaudeville and burlesque comedy tropes. Many of the major cartoon characters that have been around for decades would likely be 4D characters.
I assume that many superheroes, even those from the 1940s would also count. Suddenly I regret calling Bugs Bunny an early 4D character. The major characters in Greek drama were almost all 4D as well. Both tragic and comic poets were supposed to reference earlier legends and earlier views of those legends. Our views of characters from Medea to Antigone are based on 4D interpretations of these myths by the Greek dramatic poets.
People will wonder how I got here before the vid was posted.
I won't
@@omEon😧
20 minutes ago??
Are you a Patreon sub?
You must be a friend of JJ
I love this concept, but I disagree with you that there’s no distinct post-post-modern era of media/culture/whatever. The lack of gatekeepers to scale content consumption (as well and greatly increased accessibility to content creation technology) engenders the balkanization of style and subcultures that I don’t think was possible 30+ years ago. That reality will be really clear in hindsight, I think
I think that’s an completely accurate characterization of our age, but it’s not a style
I think you can apply this to a lot of things... My tree of luck in my room for example is a miniature of the Taiwanese legend of the money tree, but it's from Cuba where the Malabar chestnut is grown, but it's made of copper wire and amethyst stones which has its own Chinese symbolism. I also feel like you could reference things infinitely into (infinity symbol)D 'characters' because I'm sure there's even more culturally complex ones in existence and certainly will be.
Thanks for this fast ride through the "relevant" culture of the contemporary internet pop culture and its products. I would call the time after the postmodern era simply pluralism...
Thanks for sharing ❤️👍
Apart from the relative rarity of "4D" characters, there doesn't seem to be anything special about the number four. So, you could call it the "n-dimensional character theory," which would have the bonus of sounding way more pretentious.
As for examples, Futurama is chock full of 4+-dimensional characters. Dr. Zoidberg, for instance, is simultaneously a Yiddish stereotype, a stereotypical hobo, a medical quack, a space alien, and an homage to the Three Stooges.
...AND his design references both H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu and lobsters.
It's not necessarily a character, but the video sharing app Vine had a phenomenon about representing a mom character with a thing on your head. It was first the end of a mop to reperesnt feminine hair, but poor camera angles made it less obvious thus having people misunderstand the joke of the feminine hair. Then most young people's interactions with with women were with sisters and mothers the misunderstanding of the joke went to placing a random object on your head to represent a mother. The joke was misunderstood, but then by certain corners of vine connoisseurship people saw what was happening and ironically doing it with absurd things placed on heads like meticulously balanced vacuum cleaners. Sort of a 4d archetypal character?
From your initial explanation i got that feeling of seeing a meme that references like 3+ things/franchises or events and I want to send it to my friends but cant because they dont get some of the materials its based on
I like it when a new term describes something I already like to talk/think about. Thanks.
Hi from the USA!
Seems like you could just make up cultural relationships to give a character a 4D title. I’m pretty sure a lot of people didnt know that the big red boots were a reference to Astro boy. And you can make up references to grimace like having to understand it’s cultural connection to mascots and it’s evil name and colour as a kinda cultural villain abstraction.
Yes lying is indeed possible
Many people don’t know Astro Boy, but then they don’t “get” the idea. 4D Characters need you to understand 3 other characters before you can fully understand this one. If you don’t know Astro Boy, or the big red boots, or crocs, then the boots Eric wore would just be weird looking boots.
@@moredac2881 surely you can’t fully “get” anything on this earth without at least 10,000 other things. Words, languages, concepts, vision etc etc
@@JJMcCullough making things up is not a lie my brother. Homer Simpson is made up but saying he’s yellow isn’t a lie
@@moredac2881right, I didn’t “get” Astro Boy or the big red boots. So to me they were just a weird type of crocs.
Never expected JJ's evolution from politcal columnist to Canadian cultural analyst, to North-American pop-culture analyst to now cultural philosopher.
I think there are even more layers to that new Mario enemy. It's tall, like a Pokey, (The towering cactus thing) specifically to counter Mario's jump, which you'd have to understand is Mario's (originally Jumpman) defining feature.