The tiny IMS bearing can ruin a 996 or 986 Porsche! CAR WIZARD explains how it makes $25K bill
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2024
- When some parts fail they can cause a horrible chain reaction that can ruin a car. The CAR WIZARD 🧙♂️ explains what the IMS bearing is and why it ruins Porsche 996 and 986's.
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Pretty sure this Boxster has been upbadged. The S decal has been added later. An S would have a 6 speed transmission, white faced gauges, and a third center radiator.
Yep, that's not an S.
Red callipers , twin exhaust, 6 speed Third radiator
Mine both had 18 carerra alloys , 911 suspension and brakes too
But this is sweet
The Boxster S also came with an insulated convertible top.
correct also the Boxster S had twin exhaust tips
Don't see the opening for a third radiator, not an S
This came about due to cost cutting.
You see, Porsche designed the M96 flat 6 engine with one cylinder head. That's right, it has two banks of cylinders but only one cylinder head....Part number. What that means is that a head can be mounted on either bank. The problem: The chain drive to the double overhead cams is at one end of the head. To make the same head fit on the other side, now you have to have chain drives at both ends of the crankshaft. Porsche got around this by having a shaft that runs underneath the crankshaft [intermediate shaft] that transmits torque to the other end of the engine to drive the set of cam gears near the transmission, I while having another chain at the accessory end to drive the other head.
At the accessory end of the engine, near the alternator, this shaft uses a plain bearing that has oil flowing to it. However, the end of the shaft near the transmission has a ball bearing that is sealed and internally lubricated with grease. In time, the seal fails, motor oil gets in, washes away the grease, and the bearing is quickly ruined. When it fails all together, the intermediate shaft starts whipping around wildly and quickly destroys the entire engine.
Porsche tried different bearings, and the last years of the M96's production run really didn't have this problem. And there are several aftermarket solutions to the problem as well, though those are $4000+.
These cars are great, and if you find a good one on the cheap without the mod, it is a reasonable expense to spend the money and make it right by replacing the IMS bearing with a permanent solution. Porsche's hold their value quite well, after all.
Great video!
Its not a real Porsche. Just a cheap imitation, like imitation crabmeat.
@@rachelgreen1368 You're not a real person. Just a cheap imitation, like surimi~
[Bet you didn't catch the little "dig".....]
Can't imagine that solution was cheaper than casting another cylinder head. Well, maybe it was by using a cheap bearing and save a nickle.
Don’t waste your time. Get a turbo or GT3 version with a real engine.
Nickle and dime engine design
As a Boxster S owner I have tried to find something to upgrade to within my budget and I simply can’t find anything that can compete with the handling and fun factor this car delivers.
@That V8 Life he didn't say anything about the boxster in this video he just said he owns one.
I love my Cayman S, probably the best drivers car!
Lol what! Typical my car would eat this car up for quarter the price
@That V8 Life dude you seriously lack in reading and comprehending skills. I do NOT own a Boxster and the commenter you were mocking didn't say a single word about the Boxster in this video!
@That V8 Life Where does he say that? He doesn't even mention the car in the video.
The IMS issue is the reason I bought a MR2 Spyder . When I retired I wanted another two seater to run around in .I started doing my research and I was not going to gamble . Saved a bunch of money and the Toyota has doubled in price since I purchased in 2013 .Great video .
I did see a YT video where a BUSHING was installed in place of the forward IMS bearing. An oil feed line is introduced from a new flange that is installed between the oil filter fitting and the oil filter. The oil feed line off of that FLANGE is then is routed down through the edge of the bell housing (some minor grinding to open the space for the feed line; a rubber grommet installed in this small cutout to surround the feed line and avoid metal to metal abrasion) to the housing of the bushing. The bushing itself has a small groove to facilitate oil flow. Basically, this mod removes the risk of the IMS bearing seal failure. To my recollection, the time and materials for this job is in the range of $2500.
I saw this Mod on Wheeler Dealers.
It's not really a bushing, it's a standard oil fed bearing like all the crank and cam bearings in most cars use. Big improvement, but its a buck or two to do the job.... ;)
@@davidt3464 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This is the gold standard replacement.
@@davidt3464 OK. The guy in the video called it a bushing. However, your explanation makes a lot of sense to me.
Very good advice, that's what I do with my 2002 986, so far no glitter🙂 My research suggests that the actual failure rate of IMS bearings is approx 4% so it's nowhere near as bad as many claim. A very fun car for the money and in my experience very reliable if well maintained. My car has done 95,000 kms and will be having the IMS replaced if and when I need to replace the clutch, might as well do it when the gearbox is already removed.
Daryl: This guy claims to be awesome. I have not seen anything he has done that is superior. Gins up titles for views.
Exactly. Most people exaggerate it because they don't know anything else cool about Porsches.
I doubt if it is even 4%! Problems will occur in any car that has a tendency to sit for long periods of time. My Boxster is a 2000 base! I drive it at least a couple of times a month (or more)! When I drive, I don't baby it at all! Change the oil at regular intervals! Use only good quality motor oils! Drive it like you stole it! They are great cars! I'd like to see concrete statistics on IMS failures, but I doubt seriously if anyone has been keeping track? How would you gather this information anyway?
I agree. I have a 99 with 180,000 miles on it and to my knowledge the IMS has never been done. Granted this model year has a dual row bearing which really is better. Some people say the IMS issue is ginned up to sell solutions. I don’t know enough to have an opinion. All cars have their issues, with my 928 it’s thrust bearing failure.
@@mwh3227 Exactly!
I can testify that the Boxster is an amazingly fun car to drive. Even the older ones are a riot. Would love to get one of the newer ones w/ 350hp and see what it can do.
Interesting factoid: The structure from the rear edge of the door forward on this Boxster is nearly exactly the same as the same section on Hoovie's 911 Turbo in the background. On a Boxster, the engine is behind the seats and the transmission pokes rearward, while on the 911 the engine is in the rear bumper and the transmission pokes forward. Basically, the whole powertrain is turned 180 degrees. The Boxster has a trunk but no rear seats while the 911 has rear seats but no trunk. The two cars were designed at the same time and use the same forward structure, exactly.
That 911 Turbo? That car doesn't have the IMS bearing issue because it is a Mezger engine, not related to the M96 in the Boxster.
The IMS upgrade/fix is absolutely mandatory on these. Yes, it's a 3-4K bill (minus the other stuff you find - lol) but it saves you an entire engine. Everyone buys these cheap and hopes for a miracle. There is none. Replace it as soon as you buy it and budget for the upgrade as part of the buying process.
What a beautiful example of a Boxster! The owner should be commended, really nice!
Ive always loved how Porsche kept that traditional VDO style guage cluster. Just has authentic sportscar substance about it.
The exceptions are the GT2 and 3 cars plus the 3.6L Turbo cars. These use a different motor known as the Metzger Engine, which does not suffer from the IMS Bearing problem.
This is a really reliable car if you take care of the IMS. After owning Lexus and Toyota dropping the engine for Timing covers leak, head gasket issue, corroded blocks, scoring and oil burning.... the IMS issue is not a big deal on this car... Replace it and enjoy a fun car.
Mr. Mezger please 😁
If the IMS haven't been upgraded, it is a good idea to attend to it when a new clutch is needed.. also do the upgraded original RMS part too.. maybe the 1% failure rate is true.. but those 1% is a total destruction.. better to change IMS before the shavings at all shows up.. what has been clogged up inside the engine with metal shavings??
I was a couple hundred miles short of a failure on my 97 986. I had the clutch done. When they pulled the transmission off the IMS bearing fell on the floor.
WOW! Was it making any noise prior?
Yikes - out of interest, what was your mileage?
As an owner of a 996 it’s better to send your oil in and have it analyzed for material. I do it once a a year. The low mileage cars are the ones you have to be worried about because they can fail without notice; even checking the oil filter. I pulled my IMS bearing at 134k and it was in perfect condition but since I was doing the clutch it made sense to just do it. Plus LN Engineering gives you a warranty.
What did your IMS bearing cost? I need to do mine for peace of mind.
@@boyracer3477 clutch, flywheel, rms, ims. Was about 6k. Parts around 3k
Many owners also have a magnetic oil plug so any flakes might gather there as evidence. It's not 100%, but it's a cheap thing to do so why not. I absolutely agree with sending in samples, but I wouldn't rely on only that: I'd get the IMS bearing fix done.
I used to rely only on my Porsche warranty, but as that warranty limit approached I sold the car.
LN say their bearing needs changing ever 6 years. I've got a '98 so I've got the dual row bearing - the IMSB failing isn't something I worry about
I really enjoyed working on my previous Boxsters. Basic maintenance was somewhat easy. I’ve spoken to a few Porsche Service Advisors who all said the IMS issues were all overblown and less than 1% failure rate. Who knows if they were being honest but I consider myself lucky I never had an issue.
I've heard the same.I've owned a 2000 996 since 2010 with the original IMS, to my knowledge. Bought with 53k and now has 105k. I do oil change services yearly or every 5k.Never an issue
@@igglybiggly6951 I think the oil change interval and frequency is a bigger deal than what is discussed. Many owners who had zero IMS issues all said they were never late or behind on oil changes. I was always 7,500 miles and never had anything but relatively clean oil.
@@igglybiggly6951 Tick,tick,tick...
@@andrewbryl The IMS bearing is sealed with grease. There is no oil that lubricates it that's the problem. The fix kit turns it into a oil lubricated bearing.
@@andrewbryl The IMS bearing does not get lubricated by oil that's the problem with them. They are backed with grease and sealed.
Every time l hear people talk about IMS bearing failures it surprises me that nobody has actually reads the Porsche repair manual. I own a independent Porsche garage and rebuild engines. The IMS bearing is not the problem. They run for 100's of thousands of miles. The problem is engine casing movement by the heat cycles of the engine. This distorts the IMS end cap hole. This allows oil to leak out of the engine straight into the deposited clutch dust. Capillary action of the oil pulls clutch dust into the engine which slowly over time makes its way past the bearing seals and into the IMS bearing. Porsche figured this out and changed the sealing arrangement. The manual clearly states to sand off the casing shuffle misalignment before refitting the IMS end cap. Unfortunately Porsche does not go far enough as a sealant also needs to be applied in the right way to guarantee a long term leak free IMS end cap. The only time the bearing needs to be replaced is if it has been contaminated and this can be felt by spinning the bearing spigot shaft. If it is good leave it alone. If it is bad replace it with exactly the same thing. It is not an expensive bearing, unlike its aftermarket replacements. The original bearing was tested by Porsche and does not have a service life. The aftermarket ones are not tested in the same way and the suppliers do want them replaced after 75k miles. The easiest way to see if the IMS end cap is leaking is to see if there are oil deposits between the engine and gearbox. If there is, the end cap is leaking and should be sealed properly when the clutch is replaced, assuming it is not leaking too badly. You do not need to waste your money doing anything else. Solve the route cause problem and the effect will go away. This is the same for bore scoring. Change the coolant within the specified 5 year life of the coolant and don't thrash the car from cold, especially if the car is infrequently used. It is corrosion inside the engine that is the route cause of bore scoring. This causes too much heat build up of the cylinder and piston, causing the thrust face of the piston on bank 2 (the hot side as bank 1 gets the coolant first) to interfere with the reduced bore size.
You have alot of followers as does Hoovies garage. I hope you discuss this message and pass the information on, which will help alot of M96 and M97 owners. If you want to know a genuine Porsche problem then look into the machining tolerances of the valve seats on M96 3.6 engines. They can fall out and damaged the engine. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it without having an engine cylinder head rebuild and replacement valve seat with the correct machining tolerance.
Keep up the good work
After spending a large amount of money on a legendary brand, why should anyone need to do this?
The bottom line is Porsche tried to save money by using the same cylinder for both banks. If a left and right hand cylinder head had been made there would be no need for that silly intermediate shaft. Porsche abandoned many owners when they were left to pay for repairs out of pocket.
@@chash7335 Yes they were trying to save money at the time, and the response and actions from Porsche to resolve customer problems on their cars is terrible. However the IMS bearing problem does not on the whole affect cars with automatic transmissions, because they do not have a clutch.
@@robinmckenzie951 I'm sure those victims of an IMS failure will find that comforting.
Aftermarket remedies seem to work well, especially the mod eliminating the ball bearing, which Porsche could have done from the start. Porsche did away with the IMS in later engines.
The IMS issue is not the only fly in the ointment as the engines are also prone to cracking cylinders. Again, Porsche seems to offer little help to those affected.
15:45 if the filter catches metal. The oil pump is not pumping it through the engine.
IMS bearing is the least of a problem those engines do really have have. IMS, VarioCamF1 pads, Air to Oil Separator, several vacuum leaks, water pumps, cracked heads, and the worse of them all...the problem ALL will have soon or later is the bore score if it's a late 98' and on... Including the 997 and 987. Had a 996 already with that cancer and got rid of it as fast as I could.
The Porsche bore scoring really is unforgivable. Literally affects all of their cars for a 10+ year production period
What’s the best year to buy one?
@@TheOldMachines The 3.2L out of the Boxster S is not known for bore scoring, although the 3.4L from the 911 definitely is...
@@jimamizzi1 1997 to mid 1998. With full service history. Engines from that production range had cast pistons and are the "good" ones (or less bad ones). Late 98 untill the 997's 3.8 ALL will be having bore score. Check out PCA's channel and look for a 4 video saga talking about the M96 and M97 engines headache. I sold my 996 on time as I can't live with such a ticking bomb so I just bought a c5 Manual Vette and stay reliable for ever lol and I love it also. Cheers!
@@TheOldMachines exactly. That's why I sold mine when I realized mine was affected. Bought a mint C5 Corvette and it's a awesome good damn relief!!!
You are right about the IMS issue. But otherwise its a bit confusing and sort of mixed up. The first interior shown (5 dial dash, eg) is that of a 996 (911). And I doubt if the yellow 986 (Boxter) is an S - would be a six speed, eg.
IMHO, if you see metal in the filter, it is already too late. Of course, the early 986's had a double row IMS bearings which had a considerable lower failure rate. Still, that isn't much comfort if it is your Boxster with the blown engine.
The early early ones. Prior to 2000 your good. I don't remember the specifics but in 2000 they changed the cam, I think as part of the hp increase and had to cut the width of the IMS bearing to make it fit. Then in like 05 they put in a beefier 2 row. I think.
@@boyracer3477 My personal 2000 2.7 had a double row bearing.
I had the pleasure of going the Porsche HQ in Stuttgart and getting a ride in the "new" Boxster S with a test driver on the company's test track, back in 2005. Yes, this car handles incredibly well. No where near the speed of the Turbo X50...but damn...it really handles well.
Price, Price, Price
Hehe, I got my base 987 directly from Porsche HQ and took it to the Nürburgring. I was in a track session on the GP track (not the Nordschleife) where an old guy with a X50 Turbo tried to keep me behind but skills>power and after a few laps I managed to pass him... His wife gave me a wave as the session ended, I think she appreciated him being put in his placed regarding driving skill so he'd cool his ego a bit and drive safer on the roads.
Then later on the Nordschleife I passed a 997 GT3 and then after the lap the owner wanted to buy me a beer as I'd passed them while his son was driving and apparently the appreciation was the same: humbling the young guy, proving that driving skill matters more than how fast daddy's car is in theory.
(I don't consider it a 'race' even when driving on track, these conclusions and 'competitive' match-ups were only revealed after the sessions by the other drivers/passengers, and I'd drive the same, just as safely and with margin to spare no matter what the situation is.)
Love how dedicated the owner must be, the 986 looks amazing!
Well, nitpicking, the gauge cluster is quite different from the six gauges of the 911 to the far more basic four gauge cluster of the Boxster but as you pointed out thats it........
I always take a look at my 2000 Boxster S oil filter when doing an oil and filter change. However I cut mine open and look from the inside like the inset photo you showed. The oil flows from the engine into the center of the filter then out. So by looking at the outside of the filter like Dave did is not really effective. By the way my Boxster has not given me any problems except I had to replace a $30 tumbler for the ignition switch however it does only have 62000km or 38000 miles.
My friend had one the oil pump failed they changed the eingine for free it was still under warranty it ran great for years. You rock
I have a 1999 986. The older 986 uses a dual row IMS bearing which has a lower failure rate. Mine is at 95k miles and no glitter or anything in the oil. The clutch is starting to get to the end of its life so out of caution and because im already there ill do the IMS bearing replacement along with the clutch.
I always check the filter on my 2.5 986. Found nothing so far. But I will use this white bucket Gold panning technique in future. ❤
I always put on a padded wheel cover not just to protect the original, but it makes my hands and fingers comfortable on long drives.
I came across a video a long time ago mentioning that the majority of the IMS failures seemed to occur in the northern areas of North America, these engines don't like the cold weather. People don't properly warm them up and cause improper cylinder wall lubrication in cylinders 5 and 6, causing an imbalance or stress on the crankshaft that leads to IMS failure.
Some guy that did a lot of 911 auction purchases, noticed that the 911 with IMS failures where coming from New York State, Northern California, Canada, etc.
It doesn't get that cold in Northern California.
Very few parts of Northern California get as cold as New York or Canada.
Most drivers in North America tend to have these in half hour long traffic jams, slowly crawling around in city traffic, or are somehow thinking they will break it if they rev it harder than their old Buick. So the car which is designed to be revved hard simply starves for oil by barely being over idle most of the time. Especially when cold, as you mentioned. The old RX-8 also had the same issue (though different design). It had to be revved hard to run properly. Anything less was essentially lugging the engine and not lubricating the seals enough.
Are you sure that video wasn't about bore scoring? There was a vinwiki with the same exact conclusion except about bore scoring, not IMS bearing.
And this is why you see so many Boxters for sale at $10k or less.
Not lately, you don't!
Thank you for the tip about ims detection. I'll do that immediately on my 986 from 1998. Hope the tip is universal... also for 2.5 with double rows bearing 😊
Double row bearings don't fail...
@@DukeofDave Hey Dave are you sure bro? I have the same car and have had it like forever. It has 95k miles but I have been real fearful of the worst. Can your statement be verified somewhere or do you have personal knowledge from owning one?
@@jarespeoples554 I owned a 996 from 1998. Even LN engineering (who sell the upgrade part) say it's a 1% failure rate on the double row / pre 2000 M96 engine. Its a moving part so obviously subject to wear and tear and not a horrible idea to replace it....but these horror stories are blown out of proportion... Show me another 25 year old sports car where you wouldn't recommend checking the oil carefully!
7:00: the dashboard could have been replaced with a 996 cab's one (5 dials). Easy to do, the parts are physically compatible and the 996 dashboard just require a software flash.
Those tires are great for throwing the car around the corners as they grip really great but the mileage wear is quick.
James I agree with you on this one about the tires but I don't drive the Porsche too much to worry about the wear.
I just change mine every 8 years or 40k miles with a sachs clutch- I just buy an skf c3 6204 bearing which has more tolerance if the housing is slightly warped than a C4, and that does not have the rubber seals - it gets oiled by the splash back - it is rated higher than the factory bearing - with a sachs clutch £350 - bearing and factory seals £150 - my porsche tech changes me for £450 - his done it that many times he can do it in a few hours - might add ive owned three ims 3.6 cars and not one has ever grenaded on me.
Great video. A 986 S also has the exact same brakes and 6-speed manual transmission of a 996 Carrera. It has a 3.2L flat 6 instead of a 3.4L, so it gives up some power but has the better balanced midengined layout. I own both a 986 S and a 997 coupe. Dirty secret: the Boxster is more fun than the 911. 🤭
I sure love my 986S. I don't know what I'd do with more power. This car responds immediately and goes like hell. It corners like a go-cart on rails.
12:51 Most 986, 987.1, 996 and 997.1 owners I know bought magnetic oil plugs as well. Some got the tell-tale metal shavings caught by the magnet in the oil plug.
When you were doing the interior review, I was wondering why the car had 5-pod gauges and assumed the owner had done a 911 gauge cluster swap. Then the Car Wizard makes the big reveal that we were looking at Hoovie's car... it all makes sense. :)
Still enjoying my 997.2 series 911 that I bought used in 2019. By late in the 997 series there weren’t any IMS issues.
Yah I’ve got a 2002 Boxster S and that’s not one. The S will have the 3.2 engine. And, as previously stated, 6 speed and chrome gauges. Been a good car over all! I’m changing the oil this week and will do what he suggested. I’ve also got a magnetic drain plug in it to pick up anything and give me, hopefully a warning. I’ve heard that approximately 8% of the cars will have the IMS bearing issues. Car is easy to work on and definitely a good deal for an entry level Porsche. I love the looks too. Timeless.
You can do the IMS bearing upgrade which will take care of the issue.
I have an ‘08 987.1 (2.7), and we are still under the same threat. I change the oil yearly, or 12-monthly (whichever is sooner), and it still runs sweetly.
Sooo yeah I am in the same boat. I have had the car for years and love it but I am getting a lil worried that it may be time to do the bearings. 95k miles.
The 987 from late 2005 had a larger IMS with a much lower failure rate. The downside is it cannot be replaced without splitting the block.
I have a stinking Toyota I drive less than 5,000 miles a year and I change the oil and filter every 6 months. We have radically different ideas about proper maintenance.
The Wheeler Dealers show did the mod with the kit to assure proper lubrication of this bearing.
I've driven my '08 Cayman S every day for over 9 years and it's over 110,000 miles. Track day, autocross. It's been a great car. Repairs have been reasonable. I've done them all as it's not a bad car to work on. I just don't worry about this problem.
Wow so how long does it take you to take out the engine? You should be good at it by now!
Wiz my 2.5 now done 111k miles regular oil and filter changed every 6k uses about a mug of oil each service. Always use Mobil 1 fs as recommended by manufacture the 986 is now twenty four years old. My tip on any engine allow unit to warm up properly before you turn up the six taps it runs smooth and quiet doing 35mpg
If the ims bearing has been replaced they normally put a sticker below rear hood where it latches that says the ims bearing was done and there is a qr u can scan to verify it's a real sticker. If not u can ask for a printed bill for the car that says it has been done. If none of these are there than don't buy
my 2000 Bosxter, with 115 kilometers , received a new RMS, IMS,bearing and clutch, the original ims was a dual row bearing that was just fine, however there is really no way to check, so had a EPS, bearing installed.It's been just a great summer car, n o regrets.
The boxster S has other issues other than the IMS bearing like bore scoring.
Not all have bore scoring...the "base" models don't have that problem...only he "S's". Check Jake Raby of Flat Six Innovations...he does an excellent job of explaining the problem.
Along with bore scoring, the M96 family of engines also suffer from cylinders that actually crack. The engines were not made with cylinder liners, but the expensive LN Engineering fix is to bore out the blocks and install new metal "nickie" cylinder sleeves.
Bore score is mostly related to the 987 3.4 engines, as they had forged pistons rather than cast pistons on the 2.7 and 3.2 cars.
Bore score is very uncommon on 2.7 and 3.2 M96 engines.
Done 300k miles in one and never caused me any issues.
@@stone8597 it's the 3.4L with forged pistons that has the big problem. the 2.5L, 2.7L and 3.2L are relatively unaffected...
Wizard if you use a red solo cup over the filter when you take it off.. it will fill up the cup and not get all over your hands...nice and neat.
Porsche pars. I remember needing to replace the turn-indicator/high beam switch-lever on my 912 years ago. The parts counterman at the VW-Porsche dealership brought me two boxes, each having a replacement switch assembly that I needed. He asked me which one I wanted; the one of the left, a Porsche part, was 4 times the price of the one on the right, a VW part. He then opened both boxes and we inspected the contents...same mold marks, same color, same wiring bundle, identical molded branding. I chose the box on the right.
These are the only Porsches that i have driven. A 96 or 97 and 2001. I love these. Never afford one. They handle like a dream. These are the forgotten Porsches. You don't see many anymore. Only thing i dont like. Is access to the engine. Holy cow.🤑😉🤩❤
I see them around quite a bit here in the bay area. usually driven by people in their 50s-60s, which makes me think a lot of them are the original owner or got one close to when they came out.
I owned a 986 2.7 for a couple of years. Awesome to drive but I never liked the rear styling much.
Its been a dealer recall since the cars were 2 years old I used to work at porsche centre silverstone and its not a very hard job to replace we did them in a little over 3 hrs
That is no boxster s
A boxster s has 175mph on the clock and a S in the cluster aswell as red calipers, boxster S on the sill when you get in and 6 speed
Correct. Also there should be a center radiator at the front bumper.
@13:25. Wizards' face saying "eewww!! oil!!!". lol
Don't know why he chooses to not wear mechanics disposable rubber gloves. Takes a lot less time to put on than to clean your fingernails and hands covered with carcinogenic used motor oil.
Did the owner glue the filter wrench onto the filter cover? Or does it come from the factory that way? It looks like a great idea and I might do it with my Benz where the filter wrench goes on top of the filter in the engine compartment. If it's not glued in the orientation it has in the Boxster, it would fall off of there.
Some Porsche 997.1s also have IMS bearing problems.
Yes, but bore score on those engines is much more of a threat on the 997.1, particularly the Carrera S models with the 3.8
it may only be a small part ,,, but then again a crank thrust washer isnt huge either.
What about bore score ,,, and it turns up free.
I have replaced probably 100 ims bearings throughout the years. Porsche actually increased the size of the bearing in later years without increasing the size of the hole in the crank case so the bearing can not be removed without splitting the cases. Luckily a company came out with a case boring system that allows anyone to bore out the ims opening in the case and replace the bearing. The system runs around $2000 and it can be rented for $500 with a $2000 credit card deposit.
Of the failed IMS bearings you saw - can I ask how many were pre-2000 (dual row IMS)
The Boxster was out 2 years before the 996. So the Boxster didn't copy the 996, it was out first.
I have my own 02 986. I have upgraded the ims bearing. Though the one I pulled out was in flawless condition. But I'm glad I put it in for the peace of mind.
A good way to tell a Boxster dash from a 911 dash is that the Boxster has a more of a modern script on the numbers of the tach and speedo. Funny because a less expensive car has a, in my opinion, a more "fancy" instrument cluster but with 2 less dials...
It's an issue with 987.1 and 997.1 as well (except 997.1 Turbo). Some claim that when the base (non-S) 987.1 got the slight update to the 245hp version of the engine that the IMS is no longer an issue, but that's not true either. The slightly modified bearing design only very slightly helped the bearing survive but the basic design fault remains and many of those bearings have also failed destroying the engine, so it's definitely still an issue.
Only the 987.2 and 997.2 models with the direct injection engines finally had the design changed so that the IMS no longer is a ticking time bomb.
I’ve driven 50,000 miles in my ‘99 996 over the past 6 years. I did the IMS update and haven’t had any issues. These are great cars but they cost a bit more to maintain than a Japanese car.
It seems the cars that get driven and are maintained have the fewest issues. As nice as this Boxster S is, I’d still take a higher-mileage example with great service over it.
How much did your IMS bearing cost? Someone above quoted $6K and that seems high to me.
@@boyracer3477 yes Porsches are meant to be driven. But that was expensive on my old 911 with solid lifters that had to be adjusted every 8 or 10K miles.
Higher mileage cars also will have seats that have more wear, carpets that have more wear. Hinges on your doors have more wear, on the 985/996 cars, little plastic thing in the cockpit break, suspension gets loose. If you replace these things as they tire, you're good. But few people do. I'll take my 50K mile 986.
What is your idea of a "bit more to maintain"?
This is exactly what happened to my son when he bought a Boxster: bad IMS bearing
Yellow is my choice for Porsche's and Chevy's
Re 14:50 miscommunication. There was a B-52 that was having it's fuel tanks checked for leaks. The tank vents were plugged for the test. When the test was over, someone forgot to remove the plugs and when the fuel was drained, the wing oil canned and collapsed, folding onto the ground. The airplane was put in storage and as (bad) luck would have it, another B-52 caught fire and was destroyed, leaving a needed wing intact. The decision was made that it was feasible to swap wings and make the first airplane flyable again. (With some research I could probably come up with the tail numbers).
What in the world are you talking about here.....???
Ma'am concentric means on the same axis, The gauges are interlocking rings.
I think the thing you referred to as a CD changer is actually just CD storage. 😘
Thanks for addressing that. I thought it was a changer too. Mine has this as well but I never tried it out coz I don't have CD's anymore. And I don't want to listen to anything except that little flat six anyways. ;)
Interesting, mine has an aftermarket Alpine head unit but the car came with the factory head unit and the cd thing, I wondered why there were no connectors on the back of it, now I know🙂
there is a Boxster which had a for sale sign near me several years ago which was never sold possibly due to this issue the need to rebuild the engine in the future.
Damn wizard really did the Soyak pointing meme for the thumbnail
my 996 Gen 1 w/ 53K miles was updated w/ a LN Engineering Ceramic IMS @ 50K miles. Also, all new external engine parts w/ clutch, pressure plate, AOS, water pump etc~~.. while engine out service. My car is now good for over 150K miles easily..
Wizard, love your channel! IMS issue aside and agree with you on it’s poor design, I believe another thing we have to understand, is the Boxster helped save Porsche. Porsche was on its ass in the early nineties. In the U.S., sales in 1986 were just over 30,000. Come 1993 they only sold 3,728. Porsche knew they had to do something. After the Boxster concept was shown at the 1993 Detroit Auto Show to rave reviews the decision was made. We must also note the historical legacy the Boxster maintains. From the first 356-001 prototype to both the 550 Spyder and RS60 race cars, to the not much loved 914 (it raced at Lemans in 1970), the Boxster continues with the “mid engine race car”legacy. Let’s not kid ourselves, we all know what the 911 GT1 was derived from (for the FIA GT Championship).
Your observation about the front of the 911 (996) and Boxster were to help keep initial costs down for their 1996/1997 model year introduction. By the way, your tip on using “Stabilant” for the Boxster airbag light issue is a lifesaver! Thank you!
Ironically the Boxster saved the company, but the dire financial situation is also why the Boxster was designed so poorly and with so many corners cut. (Same applies to 996.)
Funny to think the Miata saved Porsche! As the Boxster was a response to the Miata. Love my 96 Miata picked it up last year its got 115,000 miles on it and just needed a new radiator $100 and fluids good as new. I inspected the suspension and saw that all the factory rubber bushings are still crack free and not hard. Its all about materials folks the Japanese did their home work on the polymer engineering all the plastics don't rot in 7 years. Mine is 27 years still runs great. go look at Hoovies Garage about the Miata he got on Car Issues. He gushes about the reliability.
Boxsters have 3 gauges, 911s have 5.
The IMS problem occurred in about 11% of 986s and 987s. If you purchase one with higher miles (50,000+) and the IMS hasn't been replaced you probably don't have to worry about it. But for peace of mind you may want to replace it anyway. The best way to avoid the issue all together is to get the next-generation 997 or 987 that eliminated the IMS altogether.
If you're purchasing an "S" version of either car, go with a 997.2 or 987.2 because the earlier version might have bore scoring issues. Make sure you check that out.
You should talk about timing chain tensioners/pads. More likely to kill these engines than IMS but never talked about
I agree that they're more likely to fail, but they don't kill the engine. I had one completely disintegrate in my 97 boxster at 205k miles during an autocross event. I had to drop the engine to get enough access to the bolts that hold the cams in, but after replacing the tensioner pads, it's ran great for another 11k miles.
Yes Porsche's have many points of failure. Thats why I don't own one. Everyone I know that owns them rarely drive them as they know they are a time bomb waiting to happen.
cars are like women . if it's hot and exotic looking , i can't afford one .
Yes, and they depreciate as the years go by 😂
Also, the hotter they are the more maintenance they are
😂 this goes further than you think. If she's got aftermarket parts some people will want her more, but if there's a couple dings- maybe she's got some debt- or a couple dents- maybe a couple kids- or maybe she's even a rebuild-or salvaged car, after an accident if you're willing to take a chance you might find yourself with a real beautifully built car- you took on the problems from the previous relationships they have had and the hell they were put through and come out the other side with a beautiful woman and a relationship that works by taking a risk on a woman too.. but usually they both end up the same way. If they are in my price range they are total basket cases and you'll never get the return on investment you were hoping for you're better off settling for a Volkswagen that you find for sale by owner or a Subaru... these are the cars I'm willing to put up for return on investment and pleasure of driving. You don't need all the features in the world to have fun.
She might be ugly but her body's mint... just grab the wheel and watch the set, you can't see the condition of the car -er um- If you watch the road and the sunset 😂
They also tend to shack up with dbags. 😂
I only borrow hot women.
I believe less than 5% of 986s had IMS failure, but the damage was done. My 986 had 54,000 miles on OEM IMS with no problems. But I replaced it to sell it.
Remove the inner seal on the bearing and change the oil every 12 months. Simples
The ceramic bearing you mentioned only has a life of 4 years and 50k.
I just replaced mine at 170k , came out perfect.
Love the DS in the background.
The IMS bearings fails in seconds so there is not that warning about the glitter in the oil ,if that happen your engine is already done.
Also the "Wizard" not recognizing that this is not and "S" makes me again question is expertise
Just do a Audi 2.7T swap. There is a kit on the market for this swap. The 2.7T engine is very cheap and with a RS6 turbo upgrade, 400 - 500hp easy. I'm looking to do a Audi 4.2 V8 swap since I have like 5 of these engines laying around, haha
I am the original owner of a 1999 986. 104,000 miles and counting....but not driving it nearly as much since I retired and bought a Cayman S. At 98,000 miles the clutch needed replaced. Mechanic called and asked if I wanted to upgrade the IMS. Only additional cost would be the cost of the IMS. While the IMS problem started in earnest with model year 2000, I figured for $150, why not? Having said that, I absolutely would not buy one of that era unless there was adequate documentation on the IMS "fix". Simplify your life and get a 2009 or newer.
That yellow is amazing. The gaps of the front trunk don't look so hot. I wonder if maybe the bumper was replaced. My 99 gaps are still uniform all around.
My one complaint about Porsches is that no matter how much you spend, or what model you are always "blessed" with switch blanks. Spend six figures on a car with blanks (not that I can) would frustrate me......
It's a small thing and it keep the prices way down. Don't like it, spend Ferrari money.
They do that to up sell you more "Options" They purposely make the base wheels and seats ugly so you will buy the "upgrades" Brilliant Social engineering!!!
good gravy that looks like a tough engine to work on in-car. is it easy to drop it for access?
3-4 hours at most if the tech has done it before. Designed to have the engine and transaxle assembly dropped to do any major work. One advantage is with it all on a bench, replacing almost anything at that point is easy/inexpensive.
Anything on the top of the engine can be a pita, but remove the rear wheels and a panel on each side and you have access to the side of the engine (plugs & coils). Behind the seats is a panel that when removed gives you access to the front of the engine (serp belt, etc). You really have better access than in a 911 on most engine items. Buy a Cayman and you can sit in the trunk as you work on the top of the engine.
Can't wait to see the video of Mrs wizards new boxster , bty , why isnt the ims bearing a recall because of a factory defect
They extended warranty up to ten years or 130k miles. Failure rate is around 1.5% under this warranty. why should they change every IMS in a recall?
You didn't fool me with the interior faux pas. Any true Porsche aficionado knows the 911 has a 5 gauge clusters and the Boxster has three. TBH, the 9*6 series is looked at like a red headed step child of Porsches because as you say, they're identical from the door jam forward. I've heard the same that the Boxsters handle better than the 911s. I can't fit in one comfortably, so I'll take under advisement. So Mrs. Wizard is getting a 986, what happened to her (LOL) Ferrari? Or did I miss an episode. Beautiful car. Too bad the owner doesn't enjoy it more. Such low mileage for an older car. Great video.
My Porsche of decades ago was that yellow color. I agree with you.
Love these cars, and their notorious IMS Bearing failure is one of my favorite shit-design stories to tell about car design. Very exciting and great video as always, Wizard.
The failure rate is approx 4% so in the automotive world not such a "shit design" afterall especially compared to many other car manufacturers epic failures.
Affected 5 per cent of them.
Which is why people who don't know much about 986s always bring it up to sound smart. Kind of like people who try to sound knowledgeable about wine love to bad mouth Merlots. They are great wines.
Panah: You own a Porsche? No, no you do not. I do.
Buy a 987.2 or newer if you want to avoid the issue.
I`m glad I own a boxster 986 now. Upgraded from miata, and have nothing unsatisfying about it.
That's not an actual Boxster S. Wheels are wrong, the calipers would be red, it doesn't have the dual exhaust etc. It's a regular Boxster.
I've seen you talk well about Toyota quality. Do you ever get the last gen 2000 model celicas for repairs?
Too many people are grossly exaggerating the likelihood of the IMS bearing failing. I've read 100s of articles (well, it seems that many) and watched a lot of videos about the issue. The consensus of people who are deep into it and not just repeating what other people say, is that the chance of the bearing failing is somewhere from 3-10% with 10% being very rare. A lot of people now are even saying that over the years, especially at the beginning, ANY car that grenaded was called an IMS failure. An autopsy was never done as it cost money and didn't solve any problem. The engine was toast. They just blamed the IMS bearing. This reduces the guilt of the bearing even more. Most "experts" (yes, I hate that word too) recommend replacing the bearing when your clutch needs to be replaced along with the rear main seal and until then, relax. So that's what I'm going to do. I used to worry about it but have decided that the problem is exaggerated.
The IMS is really only a problem on cars made from the middle of the 2000 MY to about 2005 which use the 'single-row' bearing. The early cars used a much stronger bearing that is not prone to failure. The reason Porsche changed the bearing are the subject of debate to this day. I have heard...
-The factory that made the original double-row bearings had a fire.
-Cost.
-The double-row bearing was considered too noisy.
This bearing should absolutely be replaced on any 986 or 996 from 2000-2005, but some cars have soldiered on with their original single-row bearings for well over 100,000 miles.
That's a 2.7. Somebody just added the S badge. Common 'upgrade'. Proper S has a centre radiator, silver finish to parking brake & door trims, white dials to the instruments, dual exhaust tips instead of the current 'oval' as on this car. I hope the current owner doesn't think he bought an S 😮
The reason 986s are good deals is because of the IMS problem. Even replacing the IMS doesn't increase value much, but it does make selling one easier.
Wizard can you comment on the reliability of the Porsche tiptronic? I noticed they are at a discount relative to manuals
I've heard that the Tiptronic is a rock solid transmission -- some people swear by the 996 turbo with tiptronic. they're at a discount because purists think a manual is the only way to go. porsche developed the tiptronic for a reason, and it's among the best automatics per lots of reviewers. it shifts pretty quickly given the technology of the time.
Fun fact, Built in Finland, in the same factory that made SAAB convertibles.
In 2017 my IMS went out in my 2005 base Boxster... at 21,000 miles (I purchased the car...my first new Porsche). I've owned at least one Porsche since I got back from overseas in 1975 and am a fanatic about maintenance, and do my own. On my Boxster I changed oil every 3000 miles and would pull the oil filter and even cut it open...looking for metal...yes I knew IMS was a problem but was told "don't worry about it". My IMS failed about 1,200 miles after my oil change and my inspection of the oil filter. I guess there is the exception to every rule, and I guess, unfortunately...I'm it. Anyway, IMS went out, Porsche said words to the effect of "...too bad- so sad". I sent the car to Jake Raby of Flat Six Inovations. He installed the IMS Solution which changes out the ball bearing for an oil fed plain bearing, I still have the car, and it actually runs much better now then it did off the show-room floor. I still love Porsche cars, but hate the company and will never ... NEVER buy another new one. I guess I'm sort of like the person that has a abusive spouse... I want to leave but can't. My advise...change out the crappy IMS Porsche put in all...yes ALL of these pre 2009 cars (yes I know people will say...Oh the 2006 bearings don't fail...Oh the double row bearings are the problem... this engine number or that engine number is the problem or not. In 2009 Porsche, the great German engineering brains, finally "admitted" all the IMS bearing were a problem and completely did away with them...so there...the defense rests it's case. My advice is change the bearing out to the oil fed plain bearing. This is the only true "fix" for these older cars.
If you knew about the IMS WHY DIDN'T YOU CHANGED IT? Don't thrust in dealers.. that applies to Toyota, Honda and EVERYTHING. As a Toyota/Lexus owners if I go to the dealer with the Corroded blocks issues, head gasket issues, Tacoma self destructive chassis, etc etc and all those known issues they will tell me the exact same as you...
Yeah...shoulda-coulda-woulda. I was checking the filter, was talking to Porsche guys, not just the dealer...just like now...oh, don't worry about it. I should've changed it. The guy with this yellow one... I say spend $2,500 to change it out. What do you think this person would say?
On the later 2005 cars onwards you can't change the bearing without splitting the engine block, so it's not worth worrying about as it's a rebuild anyway to replace it.
If it's older than mid-2005 I would definitely have it changed for peace of mind.
@@timprice5 is not worth?? LMFAO. It will be 4x more expensive to rebuild the entire engine than to change a simple IMS bearing. From people like you I would not buy anything. Please stay away from the cool cars so we can enjoy them and take care of them.
There's no hard and fast rule about what causes IMS failure, just a lot of theories. That said, one of the theories is not driving the car much. This makes sense if the grease has washed out of the bearing, then it depends on the engine oil for lubrication. Driving it keeps it lubricated. Let it sit and the oil drops off the bearings. Then when you start it, the bearing is dry for a small period of time and that causes eventual failure.
Car Wizard, would it cost more to maintain a 986 or a C5 Corvette if I do the work myself? Also, is it prohibitively difficult to work on a Porsche without a lift at home because of the mid engine layout?
Nice car Wizard. Thanks for the info 😊
intermediate shaft bearing is lubricated by what or self
So, how often should one pop off the oil filter to check the ims , every 1000 miles, every 2500 miles, every 5000miles……?
At your normal oil change interval, assuming it's around 5k miles. That should be plenty of time to spot an issue.