James Baldwin saw himself and his struggle for his people 1st! Which made him powerful, and respected in the Black movement! Honor to Kwame Ture! May he and James Baldwin Rest in Power!!!🎉😂
@@Not_a_Femboy._. it’s not about using Google. When people make statements, they should refrain from generalizations. Be specific and educate the viewers.
gtfoh ..being tolerant of GAY people or it not being a focus of your fight does not mean you are pro-LGBT which includes transexuals and the furtherance of pedophilia, Gay and LGBT are two different things. Africans are NOT pro that disgusting b.s We just have a bigger fight to focus on but don't ever get in confused.
But the support they gave was in context to everybody else vs black people/civil rights. If we only talk about the black community, most of us do not agree with or tolerate homosexual behavior. The support is cool n all, but if the support is given in hopes that the rest of us will support something we are vehemently against, there will be no open support. We support your right to live freely, but not that. Especially since a great deal of us are religious. Not everything can be equated to the example you gave. Just because we don't support it, doesn't mean we aren't fine with you doing what you want in life
@@sevenwhatuknowhow can you say you support ppl to live freely but no that. Saying that proves you don't want ppl to live freely but by your moral code. Is that who you want to be?
This is such a contentious topic, even within the communist movement today. I was genuinely worried that comrade Ture's thoughts may not have aged as well, but I was a fool. When has he not delivered?
The distinction between capitalist culture and African culture really helped me develop a clearer understanding of capitalism and the lgbtq community (of which I’m still not sure if I’d consider myself a part of). This man is a genius
The terms "gay" and "lesbian" are terms of political identity. They are not scientific terms. You can be same-sex attracted and choose not to identify as gay or lesbian and that would be a perfectly reasonable position to hold, unless of course you were to identify as straight (of course people often do this out of necessity, which is understandable). If you identify as part of the lgbt+ community exclusive to all other communities, I think that is a very shallow form of existence. If, however you choose to identify with people who identify as belonging to that community, but also simultaneously identify as being a part of broader humanist communities (as well as whatever other communities you feel belonging to) then you won't fall into the same trap as glass-ceiling feminists who worship Hillary Clinton. People like Pete Buttigieg are the worst of this.
@@Banana_Split_Cream_BunsThis is why intersectionality is super important. As a queer/trans Marxist, I recognize that the fight against capitalism is also the fight against the patriarchy, the fight against Fascism, the fight against Colonialism, the fight against homophobia and transphobia. All these things divide the working class. As folks of different backgrounds, gender identities and races, we are still Proletarians, but capitalism requires us to stay divided so we do not overthrow it.
What I get, is that African culture is more diverse, rich and thus tolerant and superior. This is why, despite LGBTQ people being present in the whole history of Africa, there wasn't any homophobia or transphobia. This is opposed to the intolerant European culture, where homophobia, is almost as old as homosexuality. Makes a lot of sense to me. Please correct me if I am wrong!
Yes that is the gist of what he is saying but I say this “Sounds like a fast talker trying to sell somebody a bridge. He is labeling Africa as one whole with one culture or one thought and that is by no means true. And what he is saying about African tolerance for homosexuality is pure lies. Actually, I didn’t expect less. Huey Newton went even further in his apologetics and support of gays. But both of them, Carmichael and Newton were educated by reform Jews, Frankfurt school and such. A mixture of truths and falsehoods.”
Yes. Except in Afrika, there was not a noticeable presence of homosexuality in the pre colonial period of Afrikan history. I don't know of an Afrikan historian who has discovered it as of yet. I certainly have not in my research. However, Kwame's analysis remains the correct one.
@@andreewing05 Afrikan culture has its origins in the same environment, geographical location, and time span. The cultural nuances that are wrongly seen as distinct differences are based on the experiences of the people practicing the culture in their space. But it's one unitary culture. All of it started in the Nile Valley. Thus, we Afrikans can claim all of it no matter where we've been relocated on the planet. As we also can claim the entire Afrikan continent as our property as well.
@@NkrumahTure Hmm but why is that? I mean there is no way of increasing a peoples homosexuality rate or something. Why did homosexuality increased after colonialism?
@@bernardheathaway9146 We know it was certainly brought in from the outside definitively in the crude colonialist period. At that point the colonizing power controls what is culturally inculcated to the colonized. Still, we see no noticible maladjustment before the dawn of imperialist foreign rule in Afrika. There may have been some cases of it here and there which even in the traditional period of Afrikan society came somewhere from the outside-into it, that's possible, but we cannot find evidence of homosexuality being organic to Afrika and Afrikan expression before foreign interference. Of course it's certainly been in the continent a good while now, and that's a fact. Even so, we're intellectually equipped to look beyond an Afrikan person's homosexuality, with the historical Afrikan principle of humanism, which is the Afrikan personality, and sustains the tolerance we possess. It's far more important for Afrikans to be liberated and independent than get into someone's personal gender choice. Creating our own power on the planet is the highest priority. I don't care who you have sex with, for me there's no sleep lost. Is that gay person (Afrikan male or female) "down" with revolútion is all I would want to know, and nothing else.
As far as I could tell from this video, Kwame Ture was relatively unconcerned with specifically supporting homosexuality as he was primarily focused on African culture. Is that right? He didn't really seem to assert a strong personal stance as much as he positioned African culture as being against the ideas of conformity and intolerance. I've been trying to educate myself and I'm trying to figure out if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Seems like it. From this clip it looks like he's definitely in support of the gay community but his purpose wasn't to encourage or show off that support, but to use it to show the pitfall of European culture, and how African culture positively differs Props to you for educating yourself, I'm trying to do the same lol
@@asino5494 Yeah, his point seems to be that european culture has always been violent, authoritarian, intolerant and disciplinarian. Homophobia is a natural consequence of that. A person with a more healthy culture than the european one wouldn't develop homophobia in the first place, so it's best to attack that and every other similar problem at the root. It's a good point.
@@anderso80So Pepe Onziema's interview on Ugandan media, where they mock Onziema for identifying as a man, was not an example of "African culture", but again a sign of colonial heritage, is that right?
@@Reducetoqsh That´s something I hear people claim in cases like that quite often. Like in the debate over homophobia in jamaican music for example. Supposedly it´s a leftover from colonialism. I don´t know. I´ve never been there so I know nothing on the subject to be honest. I still think Kwames point is interesting though. Disciplinarian cultures tend to be hard on those who don´t fit in. That´s a constant that´s easier to talk about than specific cases. And in the end it doesn´t matter where this shit comes from. What matters is how wee move forward. If one claims that it´s due to "african culture" bigots of all stripes are going to use that to justify their hatred.
In retrospect, it's kinda amazing what sophistries Kwame Ture sometimes got away with. I can't believe I was so taken in by his charismatic presentation, and his role in the Black Power movement, that all my critical sense just shut down when he would say stuff like this. This is not the Guinea Coast in the 15th century. Our postcolonial experience in our own cultures is often incredibly homophobic. I'm not gay, but I dealt with homophobia in my own household just because I did things that were considered "feminine," like writing poetry and reading a lot, and didn't care about football or other typical machismo shit. I got in a lot of fights in my very Black community growing up, and the F slur was thrown around a whole lot at those times. And as I got older I witnessed and heard of so many gay and lesbian and transgender sibs being gay bashed, discriminated against, physically attacked, disowned/kicked out the house, and even murdered for their sexuality or gender presentation. But Kwame Ture lived on the Continent. He knew full well that colonial-era laws against sodomy, same-sex amorous contact, gay marriage etc. were not only kept in place after decolonization, but were ardently observed and defended by many "revolutionary" governments--including Nkrumah's Ghana!--and enjoyed wide support amongst the (neo-colonized) African masses. So if he was afraid to speak out against these things--for the sake of maintaining his (ultimately fruitless) connections with African nationalist parties, or from fear of challenging the masses with inconvenient truths, he could have just said nothing on the subject at all. Instead he gave us this. And his indifference to Black Queer suffering at our own hands, and his idealized notion of the African Personality, have had consequences for the party he led, even to this day. So many people have left the A-APRP due to heterosexist and transphobic attitudes of many of their cadres. But I guess self-criticism is not part of our monolithic "culture" as "Africans, period". Perfect example of somebody who never let uncomfortable reality get in the way of an intellectually appealing notion ("dialectic of cultures") or a great rhetorical moment. I honor him for what he did, objectively, to raise our consciousness and publicly sharpen the contradictions of the freedom struggle in the 60s. But it's not hard in hindsight to see why the "mass party" never really took hold with the masses. Only with self-important and condescending intellectuals of the third rate, keen on cultivating and name-dropping important "movement" contacts, while staying stuck in a time loop. RIP Nkrumahism-Toureism
this actually makes so much sense as someone born and raised on the continent. like yes this violence didn't exist until colonialism, homophobia shouldn't be real on the continent people being homophobic believe they are fulfilling a greater purpose of an Abrahamic religion. that's the root cause
Re visiting radical 60s movements have been a highlight of this last month. Stokley/Kwame was a gem for sure. It’s interesting the contrast between MLK and him. I wonder if there’s footage of a conversation between them..🤔🤔
People should read Engle's book, The origin of the Family. It talks about where marriage and modern culture come from. It also has ideas about homosexuality that are very thought provoking.
It seems that his point depends on the fact that no African cultures were homophobic before colonialism. I don't know enough history to say whether or not that is true. Regardless, homophobia is rampant worldwide now, and will take effort to get rid of. I think he should have taken a stand against it instead of ignoring it. Together we are stronger.
There likely were homophobic societies in Africa before colonialism, but there were also gender non-conforming and sexually liberated societies. In that regard, there is no African "culture", but cultures which are from Africa. Now, as a result of colonialism, the entire continent is unilaterally homophobic, making the claim that "Africa is homophobic" much easier to make.
Homophobia Is a fear of homosexuality The conversation is are you afraid of homosexuals ?or disagree with the life style ? What is the struggle if we are all black people The example of Baldwin was well stated
@@ahmeermajied8574 saying homophobia is simply the fear of homosexuality is a tad pedantic. It doesn't reflect the modern usage of suffix in this context at all.
Homosexually is something practiced mostly in the West. Don't bring colonialism into it. It wasn't part of the culture and yes you don't know African history. We as Africans despise homosexuality. It's an evil practice.
Colonization have you uncomfortable. Homosexuality is not a race discriminated on based on their physical being. Homosexuality is a lifestyle of which all races takes part. Ask black homosexuals if they haven't systematically and typically been discriminated against by white homosexuals. The homosexual lobbyist and hare hinging on to the black agenda to get support for their "thing"
The only way this can be combatted is through mass political organization. I think we're about at the conclusion. [...] Unity presupposes organization. Now, we did say one thing, and this is a point we must hammer home. We said that when you think you must think differently from the enemy. The confusion is here. Many Africans in amerika actually think -- and even some who call themselves revolutionary and Marxist-Leninist -- say that we Africans in amerika have the same culture like other people in amerika. They say it. This is a great error. This causes a great deal of confusion. Sekou-Toure says, " A chaque peuple sa culture " : Every people have their culture. As a matter of fact, our culture has been in conflict with the amerikan capitalist culture, and continues to be, and will be until we destroy it. If you're not thinking clearly about your culture you make big errors. I'll give you an example. People have a problem with gay rights and -- gay and lesbian rights. A man the other day said, "You know I come and hear you speak, and I never hear you speak about gay and lesbian rights." I said "That's right." He said, "But I go to all the others, they speak about it," I said, "We are not from the same political platform. I fight for my people's culture. I know they have one. My job is every day to more properly define it, and to fight for it. You think we don't have one, so you fight from a capitalist culture. You'll never get anywhere." Africa has a culture of its own. And our people are the carriers of that culture. Anyone who knows anything about culture, when it's attacked jack, the people hide it, from themselves. Malcolm X said it. He said, "They don't call themselves Africans, but you scratch them a little bit, you'll see how African they are." They have hidden Africa from themselves. That is to say the people seeing the enemy overwhelm them, will hide the very culture from the people themselves. The conscious element will come to see how they've hid it to pick it up. Let me give you examples on homosexuality. If you will look at the history of Europe, and you know the first law is always to know the enemy, you will see that Europe has a bloody history on the relationship of homosexuality, from Greece, all the way to today when they're bashing in the heads of homosexualities. Africa has none of this. Even Africans in amerika do not bash in the heads of homosexuals. The question of homosexuality is a question of intolerance. Europe's culture is most intolerant. It's really a culture that has no diversity, it teaches conformity. In the 1960s, if you would go to white colleges, all the white boys on there were wearing crew cuts and saddle shoes. [...] The other day I saw one wearing long hair, he said "What did you do for me anyway?" I said, "Made it possible for you to wear long hair." Yes, broke up the conformity. It is most intolerant. It is most intolerant. African culure is very tolerant. As a matter of fact, that's why we in the trouble we in today. I remember as a young tough in Harlem, I used to go to the Audubon Ballroom where Malcolm was assassinated, I used to go to the Rockland Palace, if my memory serves me correctly, it used to happen in April. It still happens. All the homosexuals in the African community, and they put up signs, and I see them now, they have a big transvestite ball. And they would come, in Rockland Palace, and we were tough, I mean 15, 16 year olds, and wouldn't anybody think about hitting anyone. The best we could say is, "You really think that one is a woman?" Yes! No, none whatsoever. The hardest organization in our community against homosexuality is the Nation of Islam. You will hear the Honorable -- you hear Minister Farrakhan now say, "You better tell them they gotta straighten up their wrist!" Yes. But, uh, everyone knows James Baldwin. And James Baldwin -- no African ever hid their homosexuality. James Baldwin was a homosexual. And yet you will hear Malcolm X and Farrakhan praising James Baldwin for his contribution to the struggle.
I think Kwame made his message clear here on being against dominating and mistreating couples regarding the same sex pleasing subject. For sure would have been better if he also expressed that we must be equals though in a Racist society where they render black people as less than and/or unequal servants of White people. #steadylearning
WOOOW I COULD LISTEN TO HIM SPEAK ALL DAY EVERYDAY....!!!!! WOW!!!! SHALOM...!!!! HE HIT ME WHEN HE SAID AFTER A WHILE THEY GONE START SAYING THEY FROM "AFRICA" && HE AIN'T NEVER LIED ABOUT THAT ONE... THEY DOING IT NOW ...!!!!BUT MY PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP, EVERYBODY ELSE CAN LOSE WHO THEY ARE, BUT WE CAN'T WE HAVE TO LEARN WHO WE ARE ,WE ARE THE REAL BROWN/BLACK HEBREWS/JEWS/ISRAEL...!!!! REPENT TURN BACK TO THE MOST HIGH, YAHAWAH, LEARN WHO YOU ARE...SHALOM ✌🏽🔥
For folks who are confused here. I will bring some much needed context. Yes, Homosexuality/Lesbians/Trans people/ different gender identities, etc etc. Have been seen in many indigenous cultures around the world in their own ways depending on the culture being analyzed. Including African cultures. Though of course with Africa being such a large and diverse place with many unique people There are some differences here and there, and some tribes/villages, could have been possibly intolerant. But to act as if those practices didn't exist AT ALL in Africa would be absurd. They may have had their own words for it, they may have not. But they have always existed. Homophobia increased when Colonization happened. Africa is so hostile to LGBT and it was only like that AFTER colonization. People love to say LGBT stuff was an export. No it wasn't, its been all over the world. It's why you had so many colonizers place SPECIFICALLY in the laws they had when taking over , things that allude to banning being LGBT essentially. Seriously, go read the rules those colonizers places all those hundreds of years ago, it's interestingly blatant. Anyways, if you want an academic book that has some good historical info on LGBT stuff in Pre-colonial African history. There is a book called "Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities" by. It is a VERY important text on the subject.
Youve got it all wrong. He is clearly pointing out we don't advocate for homosexual culture politically nor morally. We are Africans and we have our own values and outlook on the world. A family in our culture is defined by a man and a woman and children. Period.
I believe they all have it wrong. I believe he's saying he doesn't fight for mainstream, pro-capitalist/commercialized LGBT movements, like how Pride went from a revolutionary struggle to a party sponsored by banks (not saying partying and celebrating is inherently bad). And he's clearly saying that traditionally African communities largely didn't have issues with LGBT people, unlike Europeans who historically have been very intolerant.
Life always shows us. Ppl who down gay life.....always looks gay. Right? I mean fair skinned. Flamboyant and sassy. Whats the difference? .........fighting inner demons will lead to fight outwardly 💡
There is no such thing as "African Culture", but "Cultures in Africa". There is no such monolithic entity as "African culture" that has EVER existed. Even before colonialism, there were many African states that were actually varied in culture, today there are 54 states, and each houses multiple cultures that accommodate each other or merge or sometimes, they clash. Also, there is no such thing as EUROPEAN culture, and there never has been.... Europe itself is so diverse and eith multiple external influences... a Georgian and French may both be white, but their understanding and view of the world is as different as the east is from the west. This is why I view these pro and anti race movements with disdain. They give too much credence to skin colour, as though that were a personality type or some sort of virtue. Very shameful.
I think you are missing the point. Skin color has been used as an excuse to enslave people. In this case, to extract people out of their region to a region not known to them and getting strip from their culture of whatever region they resided in the continent of Africa before being brought to the Americas. Him talking about the importance of African culture to an audience stripped of whatever culture they came from is a complicated thing to understand without understanding the creation of ‘race.’ He is talking about the importance of how cultures in Africa dealt with tolerance of Homosexuality which was seen as normal. The term homosexual wasn’t coined until around the 1800’s, and the institution that made homosexuality a problem was the church which was dominant in the European region influencing and killing people who did not obey the church hence European culture. The church was actually an empire at a point in history. If we lived in a world where the concept of race was not real then your argument will make sense but we don’t. So you dont quite understand what he means by pans Africanism, because if you did, you would know that it’s not much a pro race movement but region movement proud of their melanin and diverse cultures given the fact that the continent was a ground where Europeans colonized and practiced perfecting destabilizing states. i think your still caught up in thinking race is still real while claiming its not. And now your feeling some kind of way because of inclusivity. Your shameful. It’s a system problem that uses any excuse to keep a number of people in power.
Well it depends on if you believe in Pan Africanism. If you don't then I mean you'll never understand, which is not wrong or right it's just not the perspective Kwame has.
Hes using the term "culture" loosely here, when he says european culture he specifically means colonialist culture forcebly placed on africans via institutions such as the church. This is not about ""race"".
Wellyou know we are getting ready to acknowledge that all great innovations and discoveries and works of genius were made by black people. Well black people are definitely good at talking but that's about it.stop lying and be honest.
I see homosexuality as a personal aspect of yourself. This is bigger than that. Black People's rights are far beyond a personal choice, it affects billions in a way. Be gay, we don't really care for the most part. But if one black man's rights are being taken, best believe that is more important than who you tryna have sex with or marry.
I disagree. When Black People's rights are trampled on, it affects Gay people of all colors. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of "my rights are more important than your rights to exist". When Trans people of color are being murdered JUST because they are trans by other Black Men; then it's not about Black is more important. Oppression is oppression. And so is sexism, racism, transphobia and homophobia; they are all intersected.
@@Mouse01011 a gay black person will ALWAYS be seen as a black person to those who do not know their sexual orientation. I agree there is not a hierarchy in oppression, but a racist person will always see a gay black man or woman as a black man or woman. This is why race will always supercede sexuality. The right to exist should be for all. But until homosexuals, trans people go thru what the black American community went thru, ONLY because of how they looked, there is no way I'll ever compare transphobia or sexism to racism. And I have honestly never heard one story (from this country at least) of a black man killing a gay man STRICTLY for being gay. But I can say with confidence there are many stories where a black man has killed a gay man because the gay man was doing something he shouldn't have been. If you know of any I would definitely like to read up if you can link it.
An infamous Black Panther, Eldridge Cleaver, fled the country to escape the law, and he and his family moved to Marxist Africa. Cleaver was a serial rapist who encouraged black men to rape white women as a revolutionary action against the "white man." Cleaver found Africa to be a hell on earth, and the police way more brutal than anything seen in the US. After years in poverty, with terrible medical/dental care and poor sanitation, he returned to the US, turned himself in, and became a fierce supporter of the US, and a minister. His original, popular hate-filled book is called, Soul on Ice. His obscure book about his transformation is called, "Soul on Fire."
@@Topg1 This is true,but he was born in Port of Spain T&T ( A very nice set of Islands and people) and came to the US..If he found the US so objectionable why did he move back from Ghana and Guinea!
@@tonyolo4591 Based on his anecdote about James Baldwin, he appears to be including contemporary African societies. In which case, it doesn't matter if it was originally there or "imported."
Ture wouldn't of agreed with what American homosexuals did in Ghana. And the Marxist he is talking about that is more European than African is Angela Davis. Please take note that the homosexual community didn't come to her defense when the Jewish community of Alabama did her wrong. Play the WHOLE speech and stop playing snippets.
I think there is enough evidence to show now that the gay movement (formerly the homophile movement) is a fascist euro pagan institution. Any black who did or does support needs to learn how to read history. They used the black power movement and then kicked them to the curb. Then from time to time they use them again and colored people still go for the oki doke!!! Go look at my other comments on this thread and take that reading list about this highly important issue.
This is bullshit. Denying homophobia in African and African American culture: it's such an ignorant perspective. He's a straight man who thinks he can dismiss the entire gay rights movement by saying 'Europeans invented homophobia'. Besides being false, it's also irrelevant and incredibly hetero-privileged. Even if Europeans had invented homophobia, that's not going to stop homophobia from existing in the country he lives in (the USA) and affecting various people, including black lesbians and gay men. Refusing to take a stand when gay people are being discriminated against, while he's willing to take a stand on other issues, shows he's actually homophobic and trying to cloak it under anti-racist/anti-colonial discourse.
His logic is like saying he's not going to take a stand on capitalism because Europeans invented it and he wants to defend African culture and there's no capitalism in African culture. He's very happy to adopt European languages (English) and discourses (Marxism, etc.) when it comes to the causes he agrees with, but as soon as lesbians and gay men are mentioned then suddenly defending African culture means pretending homophobia doesn't exist.
@@SikanderG But his point is not that homophobia doesn't exist in Africa. It's that it is originally of christian or islamic origin (which is somewhat true) and should therefore be rejected (which is a value judgement). He is basically just saying "In order to be a upstanding african and proud of your heritage you can't be homophobic". He is neither "denying homophobia in African and African American culture" nor dismissing "the entire gay rights movement by saying 'Europeans invented homophobia"
@@elohim660 @elohim660 yes watch the short documentary 'Empires of Dirt how the British empire exported homophobia' on RUclips. It explains how the homophobic laws that exist in black countries where put in place by the European colonisers.
Respectfully i think you are completely missing his point. He is being talking about it from his perspective as a pan-african. Sure its dubious to refer to it as "european culture" but he meant that it was a social issue more prevalent to CAPITALIST societies in europe and USA because that is natural mode of oppression within capitalist society. He literally went out of his way to explain he sees homophobia as backwards and vindicated James baldwin. His stance is clear, he stands in solidarity with african lgbt as a pan african.
I have always admired Kwame Ture in general but on this subject matter he was just plain incorrect about African culture position on homos3xuality. It was NOT until the coming of foreigners (specifically Europeans) that the activity was even present on African soil. This goes back even as far as the ancient Egyptians where in the 42 Negative Confessions of MA'AT there is a strong reference to a man laying with a man s3xually was a violation of their social order. Additionally it is quite reckless for him to conflate NOI praise for James Baldwin's intellect and suggest that this somehow means that they were indifferent about his s3xuality. That's an insult to their position on the behavior itself. Again, I admire the intellectual liberation contribution he has provided but he was just emphatically wrong in this regard.
@@samira8886 Not only have I done plenty of research but I invite you to provide any reliable source that proves me wrong. I await your feedback. Thanks in advance.
@@richhenderson3613 If you want an academic book instead of Hebrew-Israelite/Hotep junk. I invite you to read this book called "Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities " The main issue with our people is that we have been so disconnected from our history due to colonizers that we forget that funnily enough. Homosexuality, Transgender concepts and identities, etc. Have existed in cultures around the world for centuries. It's only when colonizers show up that you see a hike in Homophobia and harm against people who would be considered LGBT.
I think Kwame Ture, as great and devoted as he was, was trying to subtly usher in a way of mentality that clearly goes against Ntcher=God. You cannot love money and love God. You also cannot change the nature of things and expect fruitful growth. Man and woman is and has always been nature/natural. And if you say Afrikans didn’t have intolerance to homosexuality, it is *most likely because Afrikans didn’t engage in that way of life. Could be wrong.
I think it's a mistake to identify goodness with nature, making everything natural good and unnatural bad. For one, it's very difficult to distinguish the metaphysical animus of nature from conscious contrivance. People have been arguing for thousands of years and the point is pretty much moot. Scientifically, homosexuality is naturally occuring in humans and animals alike. It not leading to procreation has nothing to do with whether it's natural, nor is procreation the only benefit of sex. There's an argument to be made about whether it's the duty of individuals to struggle against their nature and, if so, which parts they are to struggle against. Also, there's a well documented global history of homosexuality which includes pre/post colonial Africa and blacks in the diaspora.
@@phillipjoseph1535 yeah but a recent video on RUclips shows, they do not wear homosexuality out in the open like a badge of honor. Africa is communal. The man said if there is homosexuality, then it is kept hidden out of fear of the rest finding out. It isn’t suppose to be out in the open because by nature, you cannot continue humanity with the same sex specie. That is undeniable.
What's the point of this clip? He said African culture is more tolerant, not necessarily accepting or supporting (as some like to believe without evidence or rationale as to why). He's saying that our Tolerance is an ISSUE, which is CORRECT! We have become tolerant of too many things that ARE NOT beneficial to OUR Community. There are homosexuals who have "supported" the African/Black struggle. However, people need to realize we can't be tolerance does not indicate nature, correctness, or support. Homosexuality IS NOT part of African culture, nor was it from the start.
Malcom X was against homosexuality even after leaving the NOI, he was a devout sunni Muslim and it is considered haram (illegal) in Islam. If Malcom X speaks, I listen, those who contradict him and any of his later views are fools
@@mrme2653 yeah, Tony brown, the dude who became a republican in 1990 after 8 years of Reagan and 2 years of H.W. If anyone is an agent it’s Tony Brown.
There is no evidence of homosexuality in pre colonial Africa. At least not in any significant number. All behaviours that stand out against societal norms must either prove themselves within it or stand against it. Both marking them as unique and distinct from others in any given society. This means that either their acceptance or rejection would long have made it into the cultural zeitgeist of people throughout the continent. There would be tales of homosexuality in myths, art work, stories etc. There would long have been a culture of its recognition given that African culture is far older than European culture. There is none. Throughout the breadth and width of the continent there are no myths or tales regarding the acceptance or rejection of Homosexuality and its culture. No sign of them forming communities over thousands of years as all distinct groups are prone to do. Homosexuality was not a thing prior to colonialism.
Long live The All African Peoples Revolutionary Party !!!!!!!!!!!!
Teach Duma
James Baldwin saw himself and his struggle for his people 1st! Which made him powerful, and respected in the Black movement! Honor to Kwame Ture! May he and James Baldwin Rest in Power!!!🎉😂
Before Uganda was Uganda in the 19th century they had an openly gay King… the idea that homosexuality is a European construct is hilariously flawed
Who was the king?
@@al-jameljohnson8805Kabaka Mwanga II... is google not free in your country?
@@Not_a_Femboy._. it’s not about using Google. When people make statements, they should refrain from generalizations. Be specific and educate the viewers.
@@al-jameljohnson8805 I mean yeah normally I'd agree but this wasn't a referenced "study" it was legit a 30 sec google search😭
@@al-jameljohnson8805at your big age, it is no one’s job but your own to get educated.
I think a lot of people forget how supportive of the lgbtqi plus community a lot of black activists were even back in the 60's,70's, &80's
gtfoh ..being tolerant of GAY people or it not being a focus of your fight does not mean you are pro-LGBT which includes transexuals and the furtherance of pedophilia, Gay and LGBT are two different things. Africans are NOT pro that disgusting b.s We just have a bigger fight to focus on but don't ever get in confused.
But the support they gave was in context to everybody else vs black people/civil rights. If we only talk about the black community, most of us do not agree with or tolerate homosexual behavior. The support is cool n all, but if the support is given in hopes that the rest of us will support something we are vehemently against, there will be no open support. We support your right to live freely, but not that. Especially since a great deal of us are religious. Not everything can be equated to the example you gave. Just because we don't support it, doesn't mean we aren't fine with you doing what you want in life
@@sevenwhatuknowhow can you say you support ppl to live freely but no that. Saying that proves you don't want ppl to live freely but by your moral code. Is that who you want to be?
@@RLKStudiosUm, that's NOT what he said at all, Einstein. :/
@@oldsocrates are you daft. It's right there in his response to op.
This is such a contentious topic, even within the communist movement today. I was genuinely worried that comrade Ture's thoughts may not have aged as well, but I was a fool. When has he not delivered?
same I was sightly scared to click on the video but am so relieved that his convictions for humanity are applied to all oppressed groups.
The distinction between capitalist culture and African culture really helped me develop a clearer understanding of capitalism and the lgbtq community (of which I’m still not sure if I’d consider myself a part of). This man is a genius
How is your journey? I hope you found the answers you needed ^_^
They've been persecuting homosexuals in North, east and west Africa for 1000 years before any European occupation
The terms "gay" and "lesbian" are terms of political identity. They are not scientific terms. You can be same-sex attracted and choose not to identify as gay or lesbian and that would be a perfectly reasonable position to hold, unless of course you were to identify as straight (of course people often do this out of necessity, which is understandable).
If you identify as part of the lgbt+ community exclusive to all other communities, I think that is a very shallow form of existence.
If, however you choose to identify with people who identify as belonging to that community, but also simultaneously identify as being a part of broader humanist communities (as well as whatever other communities you feel belonging to) then you won't fall into the same trap as glass-ceiling feminists who worship Hillary Clinton. People like Pete Buttigieg are the worst of this.
@@Banana_Split_Cream_BunsThis is why intersectionality is super important. As a queer/trans Marxist, I recognize that the fight against capitalism is also the fight against the patriarchy, the fight against Fascism, the fight against Colonialism, the fight against homophobia and transphobia. All these things divide the working class. As folks of different backgrounds, gender identities and races, we are still Proletarians, but capitalism requires us to stay divided so we do not overthrow it.
@@ProletarianPoweryou're a closeted fascist buddy it's two sides of the same coin.
Great words from a great comrade.
I learned something new 👍🏿
Wow, just wow, this is such a good and powerful speech!! Its like he caries the knowledge and wisdom as an energy
Does anyone know what this is from? I'm interested in finding the full talk which this is clearly a mere excerpt from. Thanks in advance
Many are called but only a few are chosen
Why u quoting the Bible?
Yes please have subtitles thanx
:(
What I get, is that African culture is more diverse, rich and thus tolerant and superior. This is why, despite LGBTQ people being present in the whole history of Africa, there wasn't any homophobia or transphobia.
This is opposed to the intolerant European culture, where homophobia, is almost as old as homosexuality.
Makes a lot of sense to me. Please correct me if I am wrong!
Yes that is the gist of what he is saying but I say this “Sounds like a fast talker trying to sell somebody a bridge. He is labeling Africa as one whole with one culture or one thought and that is by no means true. And what he is saying about African tolerance for homosexuality is pure lies. Actually, I didn’t expect less. Huey Newton went even further in his apologetics and support of gays. But both of them, Carmichael and Newton were educated by reform Jews, Frankfurt school and such. A mixture of truths and falsehoods.”
Yes. Except in Afrika, there was not a noticeable presence of homosexuality in the pre colonial period of Afrikan history. I don't know of an Afrikan historian who has discovered it as of yet. I certainly have not in my research. However, Kwame's analysis remains the correct one.
@@andreewing05 Afrikan culture has its origins in the same environment, geographical location, and time span. The cultural nuances that are wrongly seen as distinct differences are based on the experiences of the people practicing the culture in their space. But it's one unitary culture. All of it started in the Nile Valley. Thus, we Afrikans can claim all of it no matter where we've been relocated on the planet. As we also can claim the entire Afrikan continent as our property as well.
@@NkrumahTure Hmm but why is that? I mean there is no way of increasing a peoples homosexuality rate or something. Why did homosexuality increased after colonialism?
@@bernardheathaway9146 We know it was certainly brought in from the outside definitively in the crude colonialist period. At that point the colonizing power controls what is culturally inculcated to the colonized. Still, we see no noticible maladjustment before the dawn of imperialist foreign rule in Afrika.
There may have been some cases of it here and there which even in the traditional period of Afrikan society came somewhere from the outside-into it, that's possible, but we cannot find evidence of homosexuality being organic to Afrika and Afrikan expression before foreign interference. Of course it's certainly been in the continent a good while now, and that's a fact.
Even so, we're intellectually equipped to look beyond an Afrikan person's homosexuality, with the historical Afrikan principle of humanism, which is the Afrikan personality, and sustains the tolerance we possess. It's far more important for Afrikans to be liberated and independent than get into someone's personal gender choice. Creating our own power on the planet is the highest priority. I don't care who you have sex with, for me there's no sleep lost. Is that gay person (Afrikan male or female) "down" with revolútion is all I would want to know, and nothing else.
His last point was so important
Kwame was based as fuck. RIP king.
As far as I could tell from this video, Kwame Ture was relatively unconcerned with specifically supporting homosexuality as he was primarily focused on African culture. Is that right? He didn't really seem to assert a strong personal stance as much as he positioned African culture as being against the ideas of conformity and intolerance.
I've been trying to educate myself and I'm trying to figure out if I'm interpreting that correctly.
Seems like it. From this clip it looks like he's definitely in support of the gay community but his purpose wasn't to encourage or show off that support, but to use it to show the pitfall of European culture, and how African culture positively differs
Props to you for educating yourself, I'm trying to do the same lol
@@asino5494 I think you articulated it much better than I did, and thanks for the reply
@@asino5494 Yeah, his point seems to be that european culture has always been violent, authoritarian, intolerant and disciplinarian. Homophobia is a natural consequence of that. A person with a more healthy culture than the european one wouldn't develop homophobia in the first place, so it's best to attack that and every other similar problem at the root. It's a good point.
@@anderso80So Pepe Onziema's interview on Ugandan media, where they mock Onziema for identifying as a man, was not an example of "African culture", but again a sign of colonial heritage, is that right?
@@Reducetoqsh That´s something I hear people claim in cases like that quite often. Like in the debate over homophobia in jamaican music for example. Supposedly it´s a leftover from colonialism. I don´t know. I´ve never been there so I know nothing on the subject to be honest. I still think Kwames point is interesting though. Disciplinarian cultures tend to be hard on those who don´t fit in. That´s a constant that´s easier to talk about than specific cases.
And in the end it doesn´t matter where this shit comes from. What matters is how wee move forward. If one claims that it´s due to "african culture" bigots of all stripes are going to use that to justify their hatred.
Was so nervous when I started this video, Now i am absolutely so happy that I did watch it
In retrospect, it's kinda amazing what sophistries Kwame Ture sometimes got away with. I can't believe I was so taken in by his charismatic presentation, and his role in the Black Power movement, that all my critical sense just shut down when he would say stuff like this.
This is not the Guinea Coast in the 15th century. Our postcolonial experience in our own cultures is often incredibly homophobic. I'm not gay, but I dealt with homophobia in my own household just because I did things that were considered "feminine," like writing poetry and reading a lot, and didn't care about football or other typical machismo shit. I got in a lot of fights in my very Black community growing up, and the F slur was thrown around a whole lot at those times. And as I got older I witnessed and heard of so many gay and lesbian and transgender sibs being gay bashed, discriminated against, physically attacked, disowned/kicked out the house, and even murdered for their sexuality or gender presentation.
But Kwame Ture lived on the Continent. He knew full well that colonial-era laws against sodomy, same-sex amorous contact, gay marriage etc. were not only kept in place after decolonization, but were ardently observed and defended by many "revolutionary" governments--including Nkrumah's Ghana!--and enjoyed wide support amongst the (neo-colonized) African masses. So if he was afraid to speak out against these things--for the sake of maintaining his (ultimately fruitless) connections with African nationalist parties, or from fear of challenging the masses with inconvenient truths, he could have just said nothing on the subject at all. Instead he gave us this. And his indifference to Black Queer suffering at our own hands, and his idealized notion of the African Personality, have had consequences for the party he led, even to this day. So many people have left the A-APRP due to heterosexist and transphobic attitudes of many of their cadres. But I guess self-criticism is not part of our monolithic "culture" as "Africans, period".
Perfect example of somebody who never let uncomfortable reality get in the way of an intellectually appealing notion ("dialectic of cultures") or a great rhetorical moment. I honor him for what he did, objectively, to raise our consciousness and publicly sharpen the contradictions of the freedom struggle in the 60s. But it's not hard in hindsight to see why the "mass party" never really took hold with the masses. Only with self-important and condescending intellectuals of the third rate, keen on cultivating and name-dropping important "movement" contacts, while staying stuck in a time loop. RIP Nkrumahism-Toureism
this actually makes so much sense as someone born and raised on the continent. like yes this violence didn't exist until colonialism, homophobia shouldn't be real on the continent people being homophobic believe they are fulfilling a greater purpose of an Abrahamic religion. that's the root cause
Re visiting radical 60s movements have been a highlight of this last month. Stokley/Kwame was a gem for sure. It’s interesting the contrast between MLK and him. I wonder if there’s footage of a conversation between them..🤔🤔
My boy Kwame looking like a Nintendo 64 character
Bahahaha!!! Now that you mention it, I can't not see it. RareWare did a good job.
He looks like a lot of the Pharaohs, that they want you to think were white.
Amen
if i could tour through time and visit those Harlem balls in ever era 😭😭😍😍😍😍
Facts
People should read Engle's book, The origin of the Family. It talks about where marriage and modern culture come from. It also has ideas about homosexuality that are very thought provoking.
damn. i was worried for a minute there!
but i guess i had no reason to be
It seems that his point depends on the fact that no African cultures were homophobic before colonialism. I don't know enough history to say whether or not that is true. Regardless, homophobia is rampant worldwide now, and will take effort to get rid of. I think he should have taken a stand against it instead of ignoring it. Together we are stronger.
There likely were homophobic societies in Africa before colonialism, but there were also gender non-conforming and sexually liberated societies. In that regard, there is no African "culture", but cultures which are from Africa. Now, as a result of colonialism, the entire continent is unilaterally homophobic, making the claim that "Africa is homophobic" much easier to make.
Homophobia
Is a fear of homosexuality
The conversation is are you afraid of homosexuals ?or disagree with the life style ?
What is the struggle if we are all black people The example of Baldwin was well stated
@@ahmeermajied8574 saying homophobia is simply the fear of homosexuality is a tad pedantic. It doesn't reflect the modern usage of suffix in this context at all.
It developed a great deal when Europeans entered Africa .
Homosexually is something practiced mostly in the West. Don't bring colonialism into it. It wasn't part of the culture and yes you don't know African history. We as Africans despise homosexuality. It's an evil practice.
"you really think that one is a woman?" that comment and the laughter that followed was uncomfortable
Colonization have you uncomfortable. Homosexuality is not a race discriminated on based on their physical being. Homosexuality is a lifestyle of which all races takes part. Ask black homosexuals if they haven't systematically and typically been discriminated against by white homosexuals. The homosexual lobbyist and hare hinging on to the black agenda to get support for their "thing"
@@patriciarambert9261 how can a "sexuality" be a lifestyle? You sound like a white Christian.
@@truettadevil What's wrong with being a white Christian?
@@patriciarambert9261 being gay is not a lifestyle
Yeah it was a bit off tbh but im not knocking his stance.
can you provide subtitles? i can't understand most of what he says.
The only way this can be combatted is through mass political organization. I think we're about at the conclusion. [...] Unity presupposes organization. Now, we did say one thing, and this is a point we must hammer home. We said that when you think you must think differently from the enemy. The confusion is here. Many Africans in amerika actually think -- and even some who call themselves revolutionary and Marxist-Leninist -- say that we Africans in amerika have the same culture like other people in amerika. They say it. This is a great error. This causes a great deal of confusion. Sekou-Toure says, " A chaque peuple sa culture " : Every people have their culture.
As a matter of fact, our culture has been in conflict with the amerikan capitalist culture, and continues to be, and will be until we destroy it. If you're not thinking clearly about your culture you make big errors. I'll give you an example. People have a problem with gay rights and -- gay and lesbian rights. A man the other day said, "You know I come and hear you speak, and I never hear you speak about gay and lesbian rights." I said "That's right." He said, "But I go to all the others, they speak about it," I said, "We are not from the same political platform. I fight for my people's culture. I know they have one. My job is every day to more properly define it, and to fight for it. You think we don't have one, so you fight from a capitalist culture. You'll never get anywhere."
Africa has a culture of its own. And our people are the carriers of that culture. Anyone who knows anything about culture, when it's attacked jack, the people hide it, from themselves. Malcolm X said it. He said, "They don't call themselves Africans, but you scratch them a little bit, you'll see how African they are." They have hidden Africa from themselves. That is to say the people seeing the enemy overwhelm them, will hide the very culture from the people themselves. The conscious element will come to see how they've hid it to pick it up.
Let me give you examples on homosexuality. If you will look at the history of Europe, and you know the first law is always to know the enemy, you will see that Europe has a bloody history on the relationship of homosexuality, from Greece, all the way to today when they're bashing in the heads of homosexualities. Africa has none of this. Even Africans in amerika do not bash in the heads of homosexuals. The question of homosexuality is a question of intolerance. Europe's culture is most intolerant. It's really a culture that has no diversity, it teaches conformity. In the 1960s, if you would go to white colleges, all the white boys on there were wearing crew cuts and saddle shoes. [...] The other day I saw one wearing long hair, he said "What did you do for me anyway?" I said, "Made it possible for you to wear long hair." Yes, broke up the conformity.
It is most intolerant. It is most intolerant. African culure is very tolerant. As a matter of fact, that's why we in the trouble we in today. I remember as a young tough in Harlem, I used to go to the Audubon Ballroom where Malcolm was assassinated, I used to go to the Rockland Palace, if my memory serves me correctly, it used to happen in April. It still happens. All the homosexuals in the African community, and they put up signs, and I see them now, they have a big transvestite ball. And they would come, in Rockland Palace, and we were tough, I mean 15, 16 year olds, and wouldn't anybody think about hitting anyone. The best we could say is, "You really think that one is a woman?" Yes! No, none whatsoever. The hardest organization in our community against homosexuality is the Nation of Islam. You will hear the Honorable -- you hear Minister Farrakhan now say, "You better tell them they gotta straighten up their wrist!" Yes. But, uh, everyone knows James Baldwin. And James Baldwin -- no African ever hid their homosexuality. James Baldwin was a homosexual. And yet you will hear Malcolm X and Farrakhan praising James Baldwin for his contribution to the struggle.
@@bessamidani9463 Thank you so much
@@bessamidani9463 brotha can you send this text to me?
@@bessamidani9463 may I have this ??
Something about if I don’t like I can’t figure it out that goes back 4050 years
I think Kwame made his message clear here on being against dominating and mistreating couples regarding the same sex pleasing subject. For sure would have been better if he also expressed that we must be equals though in a Racist society where they render black people as less than and/or unequal servants of White people.
#steadylearning
Hmmm hmmmm just so much wisdom.
WOOOW I COULD LISTEN TO HIM SPEAK ALL DAY EVERYDAY....!!!!! WOW!!!! SHALOM...!!!! HE HIT ME WHEN HE SAID AFTER A WHILE THEY GONE START SAYING THEY FROM "AFRICA" && HE AIN'T NEVER LIED ABOUT THAT ONE... THEY DOING IT NOW ...!!!!BUT MY PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP, EVERYBODY ELSE CAN LOSE WHO THEY ARE, BUT WE CAN'T WE HAVE TO LEARN WHO WE ARE ,WE ARE THE REAL BROWN/BLACK HEBREWS/JEWS/ISRAEL...!!!! REPENT TURN BACK TO THE MOST HIGH, YAHAWAH, LEARN WHO YOU ARE...SHALOM ✌🏽🔥
FACTS 💯🎯
Absolutely based
If you all like this, you'll LOVE the book "towards a scientific analysis of the gay question" by the LA research group
Can barely hear what he's saying,we need subtitles 😒🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Sooooooo ... Africa is a Homosexual Culture ? OK ! I agree with that !!!!!!!
For folks who are confused here. I will bring some much needed context.
Yes, Homosexuality/Lesbians/Trans people/ different gender identities, etc etc. Have been seen in many indigenous cultures around the world in their own ways depending on the culture being analyzed. Including African cultures. Though of course with Africa being such a large and diverse place with many unique people There are some differences here and there, and some tribes/villages, could have been possibly intolerant. But to act as if those practices didn't exist AT ALL in Africa would be absurd. They may have had their own words for it, they may have not. But they have always existed.
Homophobia increased when Colonization happened. Africa is so hostile to LGBT and it was only like that AFTER colonization. People love to say LGBT stuff was an export. No it wasn't, its been all over the world. It's why you had so many colonizers place SPECIFICALLY in the laws they had when taking over , things that allude to banning being LGBT essentially. Seriously, go read the rules those colonizers places all those hundreds of years ago, it's interestingly blatant.
Anyways, if you want an academic book that has some good historical info on LGBT stuff in Pre-colonial African history. There is a book called "Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities" by. It is a VERY important text on the subject.
nonetheless sodomy is deviant sick unnatural behavior full stop
Can't really understand what he's saying but it does sound like he's advocating for tolerance for LGBT folks. Cool! :)
Both of you who replied really need to decolonize yourself, he saying we can't harm other Africans for being LGBT
Youve got it all wrong. He is clearly pointing out we don't advocate for homosexual culture politically nor morally. We are Africans and we have our own values and outlook on the world. A family in our culture is defined by a man and a woman and children. Period.
I believe they all have it wrong. I believe he's saying he doesn't fight for mainstream, pro-capitalist/commercialized LGBT movements, like how Pride went from a revolutionary struggle to a party sponsored by banks (not saying partying and celebrating is inherently bad). And he's clearly saying that traditionally African communities largely didn't have issues with LGBT people, unlike Europeans who historically have been very intolerant.
That's what you want to believe he said but that's DEFINITELY NOT WHAT HE SAID SO SNAP OUT THAT BULLSHIT!!!!
@@robisgangsta1 What kind of Bullshit you on nigga?
my lord how far we have fallen from this kind of thinking.
#FREE PALESTINE ## Dear God please free Palestine Ameen.
So much for a culture of love and compassion.
Crazy how oppressed groups can so easily become blind to other oppressed groups.
What oppressed group?
@@theadventurekidz-scienceho843 In America, any one not white, christian & male.
does
Black before sexuality.
Fascinating….
Its not our cult- ure plan and simple.
You cant protect or win any type of war with that type of behavior.
Life always shows us. Ppl who down gay life.....always looks gay. Right? I mean fair skinned. Flamboyant and sassy. Whats the difference? .........fighting inner demons will lead to fight outwardly 💡
There is no such thing as "African Culture", but "Cultures in Africa". There is no such monolithic entity as "African culture" that has EVER existed. Even before colonialism, there were many African states that were actually varied in culture, today there are 54 states, and each houses multiple cultures that accommodate each other or merge or sometimes, they clash. Also, there is no such thing as EUROPEAN culture, and there never has been.... Europe itself is so diverse and eith multiple external influences... a Georgian and French may both be white, but their understanding and view of the world is as different as the east is from the west. This is why I view these pro and anti race movements with disdain. They give too much credence to skin colour, as though that were a personality type or some sort of virtue. Very shameful.
I think you are missing the point. Skin color has been used as an excuse to enslave people. In this case, to extract people out of their region to a region not known to them and getting strip from their culture of whatever region they resided in the continent of Africa before being brought to the Americas. Him talking about the importance of African culture to an audience stripped of whatever culture they came from is a complicated thing to understand without understanding the creation of ‘race.’ He is talking about the importance of how cultures in Africa dealt with tolerance of Homosexuality which was seen as normal. The term homosexual wasn’t coined until around the 1800’s, and the institution that made homosexuality a problem was the church which was dominant in the European region influencing and killing people who did not obey the church hence European culture. The church was actually an empire at a point in history. If we lived in a world where the concept of race was not real then your argument will make sense but we don’t. So you dont quite understand what he means by pans Africanism, because if you did, you would know that it’s not much a pro race movement but region movement proud of their melanin and diverse cultures given the fact that the continent was a ground where Europeans colonized and practiced perfecting destabilizing states. i think your still caught up in thinking race is still real while claiming its not. And now your feeling some kind of way because of inclusivity. Your shameful. It’s a system problem that uses any excuse to keep a number of people in power.
The point flew all the way over your head. Let go of your ego that views itself only as valid when able to stand apart from others.
@@berserkergaming1707 I like it when smart people put dummy's in their place
Well it depends on if you believe in Pan Africanism. If you don't then I mean you'll never understand, which is not wrong or right it's just not the perspective Kwame has.
Hes using the term "culture" loosely here, when he says european culture he specifically means colonialist culture forcebly placed on africans via institutions such as the church.
This is not about ""race"".
Wellyou know we are getting ready to acknowledge that all great innovations and discoveries and works of genius were made by black people. Well black people are definitely good at talking but that's about it.stop lying and be honest.
Too late, the world has been invaded and conquered by the boody snatchers
I see homosexuality as a personal aspect of yourself. This is bigger than that. Black People's rights are far beyond a personal choice, it affects billions in a way. Be gay, we don't really care for the most part. But if one black man's rights are being taken, best believe that is more important than who you tryna have sex with or marry.
I disagree. When Black People's rights are trampled on, it affects Gay people of all colors. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of "my rights are more important than your rights to exist". When Trans people of color are being murdered JUST because they are trans by other Black Men; then it's not about Black is more important. Oppression is oppression. And so is sexism, racism, transphobia and homophobia; they are all intersected.
@@Mouse01011 a gay black person will ALWAYS be seen as a black person to those who do not know their sexual orientation. I agree there is not a hierarchy in oppression, but a racist person will always see a gay black man or woman as a black man or woman. This is why race will always supercede sexuality. The right to exist should be for all. But until homosexuals, trans people go thru what the black American community went thru, ONLY because of how they looked, there is no way I'll ever compare transphobia or sexism to racism. And I have honestly never heard one story (from this country at least) of a black man killing a gay man STRICTLY for being gay. But I can say with confidence there are many stories where a black man has killed a gay man because the gay man was doing something he shouldn't have been. If you know of any I would definitely like to read up if you can link it.
If he loved Africa so,why didn't go and live there?
An infamous Black Panther, Eldridge Cleaver, fled the country to escape the law, and he and his family moved to Marxist Africa. Cleaver was a serial rapist who encouraged black men to rape white women as a revolutionary action against the "white man." Cleaver found Africa to be a hell on earth, and the police way more brutal than anything seen in the US. After years in poverty, with terrible medical/dental care and poor sanitation, he returned to the US, turned himself in, and became a fierce supporter of the US, and a minister. His original, popular hate-filled book is called, Soul on Ice. His obscure book about his transformation is called, "Soul on Fire."
He actually moved and lived in Ghana.
@@Topg1 This is true,but he was born in Port of Spain T&T ( A very nice set of Islands and people) and came to the US..If he found the US so objectionable why did he move back from Ghana and Guinea!
I'm as far left as you can be, but this dude is a quintessential demagogue
Their ways are not our ways !!!! 😡
What is wrong with you?
I've learned a lot from Kwame Ture, but his description of tolerance of homosexuality in Africa is completely off-base...
is the intolerance you are thinking of something that was originally there, or did it come with Christianity, or any other European influences?
@@tonyolo4591 Based on his anecdote about James Baldwin, he appears to be including contemporary African societies. In which case, it doesn't matter if it was originally there or "imported."
@Mari Jata I've heard it described as twin spirits.
Christian missionaries, even today, are some of the most damage causing organisations on this planet.
@@badgamer1884 it does matter we don't care if it doesn't matter to you
a copy of a copy of a copy
Ture wouldn't of agreed with what American homosexuals did in Ghana. And the Marxist he is talking about that is more European than African is Angela Davis. Please take note that the homosexual community didn't come to her defense when the Jewish community of Alabama did her wrong. Play the WHOLE speech and stop playing snippets.
What are you talking about?
I think there is enough evidence to show now that the gay movement (formerly the homophile movement) is a fascist euro pagan institution. Any black who did or does support needs to learn how to read history. They used the black power movement and then kicked them to the curb. Then from time to time they use them again and colored people still go for the oki doke!!! Go look at my other comments on this thread and take that reading list about this highly important issue.
@@chiefkroc9268 you know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
What are you talking about? Homosexuals have existed for as long as humans have been on this planet, it's not some new thing.
@@andreewing05 The LGBT movement isn't fascist.
This is bullshit. Denying homophobia in African and African American culture: it's such an ignorant perspective. He's a straight man who thinks he can dismiss the entire gay rights movement by saying 'Europeans invented homophobia'. Besides being false, it's also irrelevant and incredibly hetero-privileged. Even if Europeans had invented homophobia, that's not going to stop homophobia from existing in the country he lives in (the USA) and affecting various people, including black lesbians and gay men. Refusing to take a stand when gay people are being discriminated against, while he's willing to take a stand on other issues, shows he's actually homophobic and trying to cloak it under anti-racist/anti-colonial discourse.
His logic is like saying he's not going to take a stand on capitalism because Europeans invented it and he wants to defend African culture and there's no capitalism in African culture. He's very happy to adopt European languages (English) and discourses (Marxism, etc.) when it comes to the causes he agrees with, but as soon as lesbians and gay men are mentioned then suddenly defending African culture means pretending homophobia doesn't exist.
@@SikanderG But his point is not that homophobia doesn't exist in Africa. It's that it is originally of christian or islamic origin (which is somewhat true) and should therefore be rejected (which is a value judgement). He is basically just saying "In order to be a upstanding african and proud of your heritage you can't be homophobic".
He is neither "denying homophobia in African and African American culture" nor dismissing "the entire gay rights movement by saying 'Europeans invented homophobia"
I it exists in Africa It Came From Colonization
@@elohim660 @elohim660 yes watch the short documentary 'Empires of Dirt how the British empire exported homophobia' on RUclips. It explains how the homophobic laws that exist in black countries where put in place by the European colonisers.
Respectfully i think you are completely missing his point.
He is being talking about it from his perspective as a pan-african. Sure its dubious to refer to it as "european culture" but he meant that it was a social issue more prevalent to CAPITALIST societies in europe and USA because that is natural mode of oppression within capitalist society.
He literally went out of his way to explain he sees homophobia as backwards and vindicated James baldwin.
His stance is clear, he stands in solidarity with african lgbt as a pan african.
Rhuandan Genocide?
Tolerance?
Hello?
And did that occur before or after colonization?
I have always admired Kwame Ture in general but on this subject matter he was just plain incorrect about African culture position on homos3xuality. It was NOT until the coming of foreigners (specifically Europeans) that the activity was even present on African soil. This goes back even as far as the ancient Egyptians where in the 42 Negative Confessions of MA'AT there is a strong reference to a man laying with a man s3xually was a violation of their social order. Additionally it is quite reckless for him to conflate NOI praise for James Baldwin's intellect and suggest that this somehow means that they were indifferent about his s3xuality. That's an insult to their position on the behavior itself. Again, I admire the intellectual liberation contribution he has provided but he was just emphatically wrong in this regard.
U need to do some research.
@@samira8886 Not only have I done plenty of research but I invite you to provide any reliable source that proves me wrong. I await your feedback. Thanks in advance.
@@richhenderson3613 If you want an academic book instead of Hebrew-Israelite/Hotep junk. I invite you to read this book called "Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities "
The main issue with our people is that we have been so disconnected from our history due to colonizers that we forget that funnily enough. Homosexuality, Transgender concepts and identities, etc. Have existed in cultures around the world for centuries. It's only when colonizers show up that you see a hike in Homophobia and harm against people who would be considered LGBT.
666 like, lol.
Angel number 666.
I think Kwame Ture, as great and devoted as he was, was trying to subtly usher in a way of mentality that clearly goes against Ntcher=God. You cannot love money and love God. You also cannot change the nature of things and expect fruitful growth. Man and woman is and has always been nature/natural. And if you say Afrikans didn’t have intolerance to homosexuality, it is *most likely because Afrikans didn’t engage in that way of life. Could be wrong.
I think it's a mistake to identify goodness with nature, making everything natural good and unnatural bad. For one, it's very difficult to distinguish the metaphysical animus of nature from conscious contrivance. People have been arguing for thousands of years and the point is pretty much moot.
Scientifically, homosexuality is naturally occuring in humans and animals alike. It not leading to procreation has nothing to do with whether it's natural, nor is procreation the only benefit of sex.
There's an argument to be made about whether it's the duty of individuals to struggle against their nature and, if so, which parts they are to struggle against.
Also, there's a well documented global history of homosexuality which includes pre/post colonial Africa and blacks in the diaspora.
@@phillipjoseph1535 yeah but a recent video on RUclips shows, they do not wear homosexuality out in the open like a badge of honor. Africa is communal. The man said if there is homosexuality, then it is kept hidden out of fear of the rest finding out. It isn’t suppose to be out in the open because by nature, you cannot continue humanity with the same sex specie. That is undeniable.
What's the point of this clip? He said African culture is more tolerant, not necessarily accepting or supporting (as some like to believe without evidence or rationale as to why). He's saying that our Tolerance is an ISSUE, which is CORRECT! We have become tolerant of too many things that ARE NOT beneficial to OUR Community. There are homosexuals who have "supported" the African/Black struggle. However, people need to realize we can't be tolerance does not indicate nature, correctness, or support. Homosexuality IS NOT part of African culture, nor was it from the start.
Homosexuality is part of every human culture though. It's something that happens and has happened everywhere, to varying degrees.
shut up
Malcom X was against homosexuality even after leaving the NOI, he was a devout sunni Muslim and it is considered haram (illegal) in Islam. If Malcom X speaks, I listen, those who contradict him and any of his later views are fools
Thats called being dogmatically bigoted
@@qornbread Children are those who are born.
This government agent
how so
@@dhartmahmed50 you dudes have to read seriously!!! Go get Black lies white lies by Tony Brown!!! Call this dude an agent!!!
@@mrme2653 yeah, Tony brown, the dude who became a republican in 1990 after 8 years of Reagan and 2 years of H.W. If anyone is an agent it’s Tony Brown.
@@RonMexico7 you dudes r so ignorant it's almost scary!!!!
@@RonMexico7 tell it! Brown sold out
sexual proclivity is not an identity. sexuality is an insignificant component of character. greasy kid stuff
There is no evidence of homosexuality in pre colonial Africa. At least not in any significant number. All behaviours that stand out against societal norms must either prove themselves within it or stand against it. Both marking them as unique and distinct from others in any given society.
This means that either their acceptance or rejection would long have made it into the cultural zeitgeist of people throughout the continent. There would be tales of homosexuality in myths, art work, stories etc. There would long have been a culture of its recognition given that African culture is far older than European culture.
There is none. Throughout the breadth and width of the continent there are no myths or tales regarding the acceptance or rejection of Homosexuality and its culture. No sign of them forming communities over thousands of years as all distinct groups are prone to do.
Homosexuality was not a thing prior to colonialism.