To Push Or Not To Push? Steep Descents - Practice Like a Pro #52
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2023
- THIS EPISODE:
A common misconception around steep descents is whether or not you should push your bars forward down the descent. Check out the video below to fully understand the optimal technique.
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Pushing the bike forward has a number of potential downfalls:
1. You have to visually identify the terrain, and push just at the right time. When riding quickly, this often forces you to unnecessarily slow down before the descent.
2. Pushing the bars away from you throws your weight behind the bottom bracket, making it more difficult and unnatural for your body to return to center. When you finish your descent, you will often find that you're too far behind the bike, and not in a good position for cornering or tackling the next piece of terrain.
STEPS TO TAKE:
1. Approach the steep descent standing tall
2. Just before reaching the edge, gently drive your knees forward, which naturally collects your arms in a bent position.
-- The timing of this move will depend on your speed.
-- Ideally, the body will drive forward and then the bike will roll forward underneath them in one fluid motion, with no pauses in any given position.
3. As the bike crests the edge of the descent, it will naturally move forward in front of you without any pushing.
4. This keeps the rider more centered over the bottom bracket as they descend, and also as the ground puts additional force into the bike when they arrive at the bottom.
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ABOUT SIMON LAWTON
Following his own Pro Downhill mountain bike racing career, Simon Lawton (Owner and Founder) has spent the last 25 years analyzing the top riders in the world to understand the tiniest details that contribute to their greatest successes, and also any weaknesses that are holding them back. With an exceptional understanding of kinesiology, Simon has developed his own teaching curriculum that explains the incredible relationship between human and machine. He has trained top pro mountain bike racers across the world, and his foundational techniques apply equally to beginner riders. His on-bike drills allow you to break down complex skills on the bike and develop correct techniques.
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ABOUT LINNEA ROOKE
Linnea has been racing locally in the pro category, but prior to Fluidride, she had almost no formal training and was held back by major gaps in her technique. While she was able to carry speed well on straight downhills and high-bermed turns, she lacked foundational cornering skills and was timid in the air. In Feb 2020, she met up with Fluidride to help with a filming trip in Baja, and was fascinated by Simon's teaching methods. Wanting to be part of this mission, she left her career in healthcare in July 2020 to officially join the Fluidride team as COO. We started filming this series to document her journey of cleaning up bad habits, adding new skills to her toolkit, and chasing her dream of riding with style.
Linnea is riding an Evil Following V3! www.evil-bikes.com/collection... 
Спорт
Don't freaking disappear for so long, we miss you !
Thanks for the warm welcome back. We're so excited to be making all-new videos!
Thank you! So nice to be back. -Simon
The slow motion replays, and the review points are the perfect final touch.
We're so happy to hear these summary notes are helpful! Thanks for watching, Ian 🥳
Can't wait for more content. Missed these videos. The instruction is top notch.
This means a lot to us - thanks for the warm welcome back too!
@@Fluidride an additional thanks for this video since I literally used the technique shown on a black North Shore trail later that day. Really helpful - thank you!
Honestly, these steep descents are what I'm really struggling as to gaining confidence. Great tutorial, thank you!
I’d forgotten your earlier video on ‘knees forward’ for stuff like this. I’m only a few years into serious riding at 56 and it took some time to realize how technical mountain biking actually is. And I need to learn safe ways to tackle tough terrain and keep the flow going. You never fail to help my progression. Many, many thanks!
We're so stoked to hear this is helping - and we definitely appreciate your thoughtful approach to learning new terrain! Thanks for watching, Karl
@@Fluidridecan you link the original knees video on the description please
Welcome back guys!!! It’s been a while, good to see you!!
We're pumped to be back! And thanks for watching :P
Welcome back. Even if I feel proficient at the skill being showcased, I still pick up helpful tips from your videos. Hope to get up north to join one of your classes. Ride safe
We'd love to have you join us in-person! And thanks for your awesome feedback
YES! Best technique videos around. So glad there are more of these!
Aw hi Dennis! Thanks for all your ongoing support!
Happy your back
Good stuff. I’ve been riding since, well, when front suspension was the new tech. Still trying to push myself.
Its about time you guys are back! :) Missed your videos!
So good to see you back !
Thanks so much - we're excited to be back!
Good to see you guys back
Thanks - we're happy to be back making videos!
So good to have you back!
We're stoked to be filming again! And thank you for watching!
So good! As always! Always learning and fine tuning from your vids, it just clicks with me and how you explain/show it! 🤙
So stoked to hear this Jamie - we're glad the videos are helping!
best detailed videos on youtube! well done! thanks for it 🙂
Great video, very subtle body movements.
Great to see you two back with us!
Thank you 👍🏻
We're stoked to be back - and thanks for watching!
Thanks. Worth the wait for the captioned side view at the end.
So stoked to hear that is helpful! Thanks for watching, too!
So happy to see new content from the Fluideride team! Thanks!
Thanks for watching Nate! We're stoked to be back
Good to have you back! Hope all is well! I like all your videos!
Thanks so much for watching! We're stoked to be back
Finally back!!! Best videos your drop video changed my riding abd such easy to follow snd tske to trails
We're so pumped to hear this is helping - esp with the drops! And thanks for watching :P
you guys are awesome, thanks for all the great vid's, perfect video to warm me up for my first day on Mt Washington of the season
Thanks for watching, Chris - and have an awesome first day on Mt Washington!! 🥳
I think I learned something! Will let you know later!! Thanks!!
Excited to see you guys back and great timing because I do incorrectly push forward to get that front wheel traction but need to focus on my knees more.
So excited to hear this - we hope you get good results when you focus on driving your knees forward / letting the bike roll!
It's been fun taking several classes with Fluidride and seeing Simon doing this move in person at this very spot.
Patrick - thanks for joining us in-person!! We love that - it's always the best way to learn!
Welcome back...missed y'all!
Thanks for the welcome back, Greg! We're excited to be filming again! -Linnea
Proper worthwhile tips for safer more relaxed riding. You guys are great.
Thanks for the prop Neil. Most appreciated! -Simon
Love to see some new content!
Thanks so much for watching!
Welcome back!
Thanks Chris! We're excited to be back!
Welcome back! ❤
Thanks Mike! We're stoked to be making videos again!
Always amazing! Thank you!
This video is absolutely incredible!
I have been riding with heavy feet light hands, but still had a tendency to push into holes on steep descents, just took this technique to the trail yesterday and it had roots and rocks on steeps feeling like they were not even there!
We're so stoked to hear this - thanks for the awesome feedback!
Wow! Welcome back. I missed u guys
Thanks so much Pete! We've missed making videos!
Really good lesson here, needed this last weekend at Whistler before my crash on”In Deep” - was getting too much rear wheel airtime and tire-butt buzz all day leading up to the End (rotator cuff damage)
Oh no - so bummed to hear about the rotator cuff injury 😬Although it's great that you can instinctively identify when your rear wheel is getting too much air. Hoping for a quick recovery for you so you can get back to Whistler for redemption laps!
Your baaaaack!! Great to see!! Like the new bike. Everyone is looking lean n mean (fit AF).
Hahaha ok this comment cracks me up 🤣 Thank you for watching and for the warm welcome back! -Linnea
Welcome back ☺️
Thanks Axel!
Hi Simon! Troy from NH here. I worked with Harper in Bend back in the day, good times! Great videos. Keep shredding buddy! Bike Life! 🤘😎👍
Hey Troy! I keep in touch with Scotty still. He seems well...down in Nashville area now (country outside the city). Thanks for saying hi! -Simon
I'm glad y'all are posting new videos...the previous ones helped me so much as a new rider. Now that I'm 1.5yrs in, and am exponentially better, I still go back and re-watch the older videos! Thanks and keep it up!
We love hearing this - totally makes our day. And good work to you for sticking to it and practicing!
@@Fluidride if only I lived in the PNW, would totally get instruction from y'all! One day I'll go on one of the tours, Alps or Finale would be sick!
This was the one part of MTBing that I truly didn't understand. Thanks for the missing key to trails round where I live (Cotswolds, UK).
We're stoked this is helping - and thanks for watching all the way from the UK!
Guys. Bring back content at 60FPS like some of your old videos. For fast movement and sports technique it is a game changer. I have seen some of your content in 60FPS and it is hard to go back to these normal frame rate content.
Keep up the good work.
Wow. The algorithm just showed me your vid on front foot turns, and now I see this. These videos really unpack what it is like being a rider who is struggling to progress, but perhaps cannot explain what is holding them back. I'm not on my bike right now, and I can really physically understand and feel the difference between the good techniques shown, and some of the common mistakes and traps that I fall into.
I've never seen anything like it - so impressive!
Thanks so much. I've spent a good part of my life trying to understand this sport better, so it's fun to share. -Simon
I had to pinch myself when I saw this video. Welcome back! 🤙
This makes our day - we're happy to be back!!
Thanks for sharing Simon👍
Thanks Michael! We're so lucky to bring Simon's insights to life!
@@Fluidride I really enjoyed the two day jump class with you guys. I hope to join you again in the future. Thanks.
@@michaelmann3636 We'll hope to see you again sometime! -Simon
Great to see new content from FluidRide! Plus, Duthie as the 3rd star of the show!
Hahaha yes we do love our Duthie... and more local trails to come too!
Interesting stuff!
There is a corner on one of our local trails, Westies, fondly known as "that corner". Most people hate it, many people get off and walk it. I, as with many others, more or less survive it. But comparatively few ride it well.
It is a tight right hand, with a drop in the middle of it. Basically, a shelf.
I am almost sure that much of my problem is with attempting to "over-prepare" early. Will try to implement this the next time I'm riding it and see what happens.
Oh. SO good to see you back!
Oh this sounds like such a cool piece of terrain, mixing the tight turn with the drop. Let us know how that goes!
Welcome back dream team!
Thanks for the warm welcome back! We're excited!
Hey, you're back! Woo-hoo! Granted, right after I spent a week in Bentonville instead of before, but such is my timing in most things.
Yes we're stoked to be back! Guess you'll just need another trip to Bentonville, or maybe even the PNW?!! More mtb trips can solve this!
@@Fluidride True, true. Would love to visit the PNW again. Been a couple decades and it was for work (so no bike).
Ur new subcribers from Philippines,, thankz for the vedios u have,,to watch
I recently moved to Arizona from Washington State, and even though Arizona has some truly amazing riding I miss PNW riding. Duthie was always my go to for a quick morning full of thrills. Hopefully I can find my way back up there.
Duthie is such a gem - we're happy you had the chance to ride it so much! We hope you make it back this way too... so many new trails going in; you will be busy!
WHATS THIS?!?!?!! WELCOME BACK!!!!!
Ahahah thanks for the warm welcome! We're pumped to be making videos again and have so many new ideas to bring to life
Hi Simon, I just completed the 6 stages of the Transrockies Singletrack6. A week before the event took a professional lesson on drops which helped me a lot, but... Over time, i have had a dilemma of not knowing what to do on steep, downward roll/steps of all varieties. I think, due to indecision I started to move away from obstacles/ danger. I watched this video a few days before my race. I spent 6 days practicing moving my knees forward on 100's of features and obstacles during the event. I am amazed how confidence inspiring it was to move forward. Many obstacles felt like nothing. I made it down and over many black diamond segments that i couldn't go over before. So excited to continue using this technique the rest of the summer. This idea tied my good technique to a confident psyche! ❤
This makes my day. So appreciate this message. This is why we do what we do! Congrats on a big ride and improvements on the bike. My motto is 'move forward and relax' which just means I nudge the knees forward toward terrain and relax from the belly button up. Thanks again! -Simon
@@Fluidride Addendum: I'm on a 2 week holiday post race, in the Canadian Rockies, working on my front foot turns. I think I've got it...starting to rail them with more confidence. Thanks!
It's completely counter-intuitive to move forward when coming up to a steep drop. My mind always to get my body as far back as possible out of fear of going OTB as soon as the front tire leaves the edge. I have become better at it over the last year, but my mind is still screaming "WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU IDIOT?!" as I move forward off the drop. 😂😂
Ahaha this is a perfect depiction of the process! It is definitely not what our brain wants us to do!
Great video❤ I always wonder why the push helps a drop. It’s not the push but the lean forward and let the bike roll😅
Yes exactly!! Thanks for watching :)
Woo hoo! Linnea is back... oh yeah, and Simon.
🤣 Without Simon, there would be no skills 🤣
Holy shit.... a new video? Dont leave for so long again.. ever.
Ok we'll do our best 😆 Full time content creation team!
Hang in there L, tech moves will eventually become second nature! Just a thought though, 'fear' is a big thing, and usually defines incorrect body position.... like att (ass to tire) . Maybe talk about that in the next vid. These lessons are awesome, thanks guys!
Thanks for watching, and for the support! The mental game definitely sets us up for some unfavorable body positions. We'll add a discussion on fear to our list!
I got the pleasure to meet Linnea a few times, once at Tokul and a couple times at a bike shop I worked at in Issaquah. Such a down to earth person! I’d be lying if I told ya i wasn’t fan girling over her!! 😃
Aw hi Tony! It's always fun running into you and talking about bikes and life - come back this way sometime, esp for Tokul season! - Linnea
Haha! Have had a class by Fluidride on that very same feature at Duthie Hill! Can't recommend them enough if you're in the Seattle area.
Thanks so much for rec here; we're pumped you had a great experience!
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉They're BAAAAACK🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Hahaha we appreciate the warm welcome back! We're stoked
Best series on teaching techniques in MTB on RUclips. I have a question. What do you think of new rockshox charger 3 forks?
While I'm not familiar with the Charger 3 forks, I'm a rock shox fan when it comes to forks. Most of my current bikes came with Fox, which is fine, but I do prefer the butter smooth feel of rock shox products. I'm sure what they have come up with most recently is good. I'll look forward to finding out for myself. -Simon
fluidride find password back FINALLY.
🤣🤣 exactly! We're happy to be back!
I feel that this ties in with the video you did about letting the bike move underneath you for rough chunky terrain. It can look like you're pushing your arms into all the little dips, but you're just letting the bike do it's thing.
Yes this is such a great analogy - completely agree! Being relaxed and letting the bike do the work goes such a long way
Wow. My dream coach and my dream girl are back. You made my day. I can’t wait to learn more from you both. Wow, prayers do get answered. 😊🎉
Thanks for the warm welcome; we are so happy to be back!
Nice one! And here I thought PLaP was done and dusted.
Definitely a very long pause 🤣 But we're so happy to be back and drop lots of new content!
Really helps! i can go so much faster on steep sections.
QUESTION! How to those super tough and rooty drops in Upper Predator (tiger mountain), should i use the same technique ?
Yes! For sure. There are actually two Predator episodes in this series and the first one contains lots of shots and info for upper Predator. Hope they help! -Simon
Simon this was great. The knees attitude reminds me of bump skiing and driving the tips/shovels down to stay in contact with the surface. Otherwise you're left behind, back-seated, ready to snap an ACL!
On the bike it delays your bike's attitude shift if the knees stay back, right? Makes you stay nose-high instead of following the contour down?
Lots like skiing in so many ways. The main danger of not moving forward is that you could be pulled forward into the descent as you would run out of arms length. If the hill isn't so extreme as to cause a danger, the rider would simply be off the back of the bike, which as you say, would lighten the front end, not allowing it to track properly. This could cause a loss of control but would also make it nearly impossible to turn the bike. Like a ski, the front of the bike needs weight in order to work. The basic premise is that we want to keep our center of mass evenly distributed over the bottom bracket so that the bike is properly weighted and the body properly supported by our platform, which is the cranks, bb and pedal system. Hope this makes sense! Lots more about this in our online channel fluidrideonline.com. Free for a week if you want to just browse around a bit. Thanks for checking in! -Simon
Fluidride is BACK!! Now don't ever do that again.. Missed you guys!
Thanks Manny - appreciate the warm welcome back! We're excited to be making videos again... so many new ideas we want to share!
Could you describe hand pressure profile on the bars? I assume light bars throughout/keep weight on bb? Thx
You have it right. Hand pressure is minimal with this technique. There are some moments on the bike when I do create a little hand pressure on purpose, but it's super rare. My arms were really light in this edit. Takes time to trust and get out of using upper body strength when riding. Keeping your weight 'in your socks' will keep center of mass low and simplify things greatly. -Simon
tight girl
What would happen if BB catches the surface a little bit (or a lot), it would through rider immediately OTB or there is some margin for correction because you are looser on the bike?
Yes it pays to be looser on the bike (and in the correct body position) to absorb the impact! This actually happened to me last night - I went to roll a rock that was way too huge for my front wheel (it was also vertical). The edge of the rock shredded the bash guard on the bottom of the bike, tearing half of it off. But even with that much impact, just staying calm and holding my body position allowed me to save it and actually not crash somehow. Although I never want to do that again 🤣 -Linnea
Ok, what model of Specialized bikes is Simon riding? It's driving me crazy as it's not an FSR shock set up. Secret beta test model?
Spz enduro
Ok, so that is your entry into some steep terrain. Unfortunately, the example ends within less than a bike length, when the front wheel runs out onto the flat. That is not a problematic situation. That is a fairly forgiving situation. When that slope is 8 , 10, or 20 m at the same slope , what should the body be doing? How do you handle traction control, centre of mass, speed modulation?
The technique is the same entering a long descent. We want to keep our center of mass over the bottom bracket at all times as best we can. The bottom bracket moves in relation to the rest of the bike on undulating terrain and descents (on steeper sections the bb is well behind the saddle). Had this descent kept going, or gone flat for a moment and then dropped again, we were both in a neutral position to continue on into upcoming terrain. We do have a number of episodes showing longer descents. Basically we want to let any leveling off or reduction in grade on the descent help recenter the bike beneath us. This is best done when our center of mass is over the bottom bracket and weight is on the legs and not in the arms. I hope you get a chance to poke around our channel more to see more examples of longer descents. I coach many of the nations top descenders and working on this skill is super helpful to them both for maintaining control and speed, and also for muscular efficiency. Let me know if you have further questions! -Simon
So it looks like “knees forward” is “getting low”? How do you actually get your knees forward?
I don't ever think about 'getting low' on the bike. The action of driving the knees forward does lower our height of course. We are actually doing a video on this very subject. Interesting how the movements we need on the bike to tackle terrain make us low at all the right times. Stay tuned!! -Simon
Youre very cute my fav! explanations are clear and makes sense
On the steeper drop...much better/safer to learn to unweight the front, give the pedals a slight punch, and nose the bike down to land with the rear. Lots of people will go OTB trying to roll it incorrectly. Stick with rolling less steep stuff until you level up a bit. Just saying.
Looks like a perfect practice spot before committing to proper high steep gnarly descent where trying a drop technique would be ☠
@@brettdarnesh6970 Agreed. Just personally, that steep thing is a bit too close to stuff many shouldn't roll. Some will try similar features and may not end up well. Just a PSA is all. Otherwise, send it.
where you all been?
Making some new in-person offerings and going all-in on mtb tours in Mexico! But, we're stoked to be bringing videos back now too :)
She's excellent 👍. Bike way too big and 29ers are way too big
There should be mullet at least, with her height
Why is her seat angled down?
It feels so much better for climbing! Since the trails we climb here are generally uphill the entire way, this helps keep my lower spine in a straighter and more comfortable position. For a longer, flatter ride, I'd probably angle it up to more level. I know it's not the popular 'look' right now but my body is so much happier! -Linnea
Is this Duthie?
It is!
@Fluidride Right on! I actually crashed on that feature trying to do exactly what is being taught. Being that I'm on a hard tail, is there anything different I need to do?
@@Phil-nl9ed All the same on a hard tail. Love simple bikes! -Simon
University's professor of Mountain Biking ?
Hahaha love this!
@@Fluidride The way you explain things , you sounds like a professor ,even though I didn't go to UNI . Can't be where you are to learn from you so , the videos will do.😅
#1 most important lesson: Don't buzz the booty!
Sure it's all so cool to "Send It" until you fly over the bas and destroy your shoulder. And a year later you still can't lift your hand over your head.
There's definitely a fine line between living life to the fullest and living a substandard life because of one stupid decision.
Big guy-tiny girl, same width bars, uh? Why do girls ride with such wide bars?
We definitely appreciate your concern over bar width - it's a topic we're super passionate about too. Linnea is riding 720mm bars and Simon is on 800mm here; both really solid fits for their size. Sometimes the angles of the camera can make things look different!
@@Fluidride My bad. I just see so many girls riding crazy wide bars, they can barely move around.
@@concernedbiker9414 Yeah, drives me crazy too. Really keeps lots of smaller riders from being agile on the bike. -Simon
Great video, great instructions, but for safety as a bike coach, she should not have dangling pearl earrings whilst riding…
Aw this is very thoughtful. Probably should have thought about the earrings, I just kind of live in them and don't notice 🤣 -Linnea
I'm just worried about those earrings. I hope she does not wear those on actual rides
Oh, I do 😬 but they slip out easily. Will have to revisit earring choice! -Linnea
A bit curious as to the 'knees forward' because it's nearly impossible to move your knees without moving your hips. Is that what you really mean? Coming from the moto side, this is something taught with regard to body position; hips/knee position.
Basically just a 'little nudge' forward to keep the knees over the balls of the feet. We don't want the hips to come forward too much. If you stand up, just lower your body a little and you will feel the move. The shoulders do also come forward a bit as the knees bend slightly. This creates some elbow bend, giving the arms the needed reach to deal with the upcoming extension necessary. I actually have a long moto background from way back. Very similar in some ways, but of course with an offset stance on a bike. -Simon
Welcome back !
Thank you - we've definitely missed making videos!