DIY BLDC Axial motor - multipole flat coil test
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Test of coil that is very simple to manufacture for use in axial motors
Watch 3 phase version of this coil: • DIY 3 phase axial moto...
Measuring efficiency: • DIY BLDC Axial motor -...
Entire playlist: • BLDC motor
Sample drawing:
drive.google.c...
I like this design!
Because it can be uncoupled one could even add a 2nd layer of coils to the opposite side of the magnets doubling the torque if it can be kept stationary.
Air core motors are easy. Iron cores are powerful. Cogging and eddy currents figure in too. Your video is amusing. Good work.
This kind of reminds me a bit of that time i made a BLDC driver for DVD spindle motors and spun them so fast that the bushings welded to the shaft. No amount of lubrication would save them. :D
In then end my power supply didn't have enough power to make the motors spin even faster but the speeds were absolutely ridiculous and the gyroscopic effects were as well.
Thank you for your work and for making these videos, you helped me a lot. I have just started with the axial flux motor. I have built a couple of different ones but this is very cool.
Okay, I see how the single coil can function as several coils with the polarity reversed from one loop to the next. What I don't see is how commutation is achieved. The motor should cog to a stop immediately, if DC is simply applied directly to the coil. I must be missing something here.
I can also see why it is not very efficient, in terms of watts in / watts out, but if light weight is more important than efficiency of energy conversion, it is ingenious. Nice work.
Hi, commutation is done by PC fan. So this is AC motor.
You can look at my playlist if you are interested.
Driver is explained a little bit in first video of this series.
And in last video I have more efficient 3 phase version driven by RC plane motor controller
Dude you are hysterical! I use the exact same method as you. I just wing it! You literally had me laughing out loud!
Thank you for the video! I was able to recreate it very easily!
AND ???WITH WHAT RESULTS ? 10X
No explicas cuántos voltios , y que tipo de corriente .
Parabéns pelo trabalho de qualidade!
That's incredible
How is the circuit to which the coil is connected? And about how many turns does the coil have?
How about trying a flat Rodin coil?
Some designs use more magnets than coils, but in your design, there are equal number of magnets (magnets align perfectly with wires). How do you decide how many magnets to be put in rotor?
Молодец, настоящий брашлес
How many copper strands did you use? And does how many strands affect torque and rpm? What voltage was you running it on? Excellent work!
you distryied the coil with them screws .
and the hold with copper
Why I found it only now?
very accurate plans for something like that I found on Avasva
Where do you mount the hall sensor? How do you connect the hall sensor ? Can you please give some links to buy H bridge + hall sensor + software to work ? BEST REGARDS :)
Up
How to rewind the motor it so simple
What kind of magnets did you use?
I believe it was neo 18x3 mm as I got good deal on this size. The thiccer the better :)
good works on your bldc multiple flat coil do you used bldc controller
haha when he IP68ed that coil whit that glue thing. Hell, i guess its will pass the IP69K test for sure
Isn't more energy generated by putting induced by both sides of the magnets?
Energy isn't generated :) I guess you meant power density - in that case you can do that, but it is easier for me to close magnetic field by having 2 plates with magnets.
I am curious about the magnet layout is it + - + - + - +
I like it u are ids
Mujhy pasand aya apka triqa
Good work, what is the gauge wire?
Nice to meet you
My name is Rokumi Toi from Osaka, Japan.
I want to make a motor and see how many times the coil is wound?
I would appreciate it if you could tell me.
Hey :) Can u please share with me your driver circuit schematic, what u use for this "1 phrase?" coil motor(for this project)? Sorry for my bad english, thank.y. Filip from hungary :)
Ему бы еще геркону или датчик холла для запуска и увеличения кпд.
Great i have a similar design like this one i did it couse it is tge way earth works 👏👏🤝
nice video friend......1st of all sorry for my broken english writing,,,,anyways i m new in this field,want to know abt dat i have a berger lahr stepper motor,as i turn it with finger shows near abt dc 5.00 and ac 200 ,,,,,,,,cos i cant read the current value of the motor ....can i use it for a small wind turbine???but as attach it with some load its get very hard to turn......thanx any suggestions
Hi, that is the nature of all motors/generators. When you apply load, you have to provide more curent / when you need more current, you need to provide more force.
Personally I would not use stepper as it tends to create huge voltage at lower current normally - it would be beneficial to charge some 30V battery and then step down to provide higher currents.
it also has holding force, that you have to overcome to start not quite smooth rotation. when rotation is not smooth, this holding force will play effect here. You also can not get rid of it, because it is a result of motor construction.
It doesn't need ESC right? or motor controller whatever you called. I can see only 2 ended of wire in this case you use pulse?
In theory you could do it, but in practice you need to control it.
Driver and principle is same as in PC fan motor. it is only a bit scaled and flattened..
What power do you give..... .. i mean home electric...or..... from battery.... i mean dc or ac... this is my second comment.. coj i am interest in this....... the winding pattern is easy........ for begginners
~250W power supplied by ATX PC PSU @12V
ruclips.net/video/TAFDX301Qrk/видео.html for driver (3-phase). this motor is single phase, which is not that great
Interesting Mr Ilusys, How you organised magnets, are they NSNS or NNN or SSS ?
also can y ou please share the driver making video as well?
It is NSNS. I will make that video. I just need about 2 weeks...
So nice of you dear, quick response makes me feel elated, will wait for your video, god bless
how good do these coils work compared to regular builds? I'm thinking of making a generator using this coil type.
it depends on what the regular build is :)
typical commercial motors have 90-99% efficiency if used right.
i guess, that worst case for commercial BLDC motors used in RC community would be 60-80% if abused, but not really hard...
in my last test this motor had 45% efficiency.
to improve this, you can add more phases, or use more dense configuration of magnets (thinner bar magnets), or pulse the power only when it is most efficient(reduces power).
axial motors are compromise between power density and efficiency, but design is very simple and low cost.
I don't think this would be cost efficient generator in long run. for experiments it's pretty OK
It can build on the electric car
Perfact!
Can someone tell me what will happen if I increase the number of winding in 3 phase generator's stator...
How will it affect the output, will the output voltage, power increase?
Increase of number of turns means more voltage.
Increase of wire dia means more Amps.
Increase of weight of copper means more power.
why sisnt you use metal washers as cores for coils ?
you can, I was thinking of using magnetic steel shavings as epoxy filler. But, what you get is higher torque at lower speed so power is constant. efficiency likely too if design is good.
how many mm copper wire did you use
in this case about 0.3mm
With PWM driver I used 0.75mm wire and ~12 turns.
Really cool! What did you use for a power supply? Also where could we find that template?
I use about 30W 12V power brick.
I can make you a template, as your design will be probably different.
I would need number of magnets, shape and "middle" diameter of circular pattern.
I can make even an app for that, but single phase has only 50% peak efficiency, which is rather low.
I will try to get long bar magnets, and make 2 or 3 phase design usable with RC style motor driver
Hi, If you are still interested, I made drawing available.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxYcrZZwfNmmZzM1UW5NcFZjVGM
This was done in fusion, so I can maybe publish 3D source.
Sorry, that this took so long - I had to reinstall OS so all data was deleted.
Ilusys Systems does the system heat up from such a high wattage through such thin coils because i can only put like 3v 15 milli amps through such thin coils it melted after a few minutes
Wow. There is no way such low power would melt hardly any plastic piece bigger than quarter coin.
3V * 0.015A = cca 1/20W. Imagine size of 1/4W resistor...
I am using 0.5mm dia. wire. I wouldn't call it thin. It can handle probably 10A @ 12V with some self cooling continuously say at 1000RPM - obviously the more RPMs, the better cooling if you don't use independent cooling.
Maybe you are measuring something wrong(meter range in mA while probe in 10A hole)?
Also I would recommend building 3phase version of this motor @ ruclips.net/video/SvxFdLKZU-8/видео.html
Ilusys Systems my meter is old ill go get a new one soon. and the wire i use is so thin it melts with a heat radiated off of a lighter i do all kinds of crazy things on my channel
Merry christmas! This is single phase motor? Can it be self - starting? This is sensorless design or with hall type sensor? I want to use same type of design to direct drive of turntable for my LP records. in i need slow speed rotation 33 1/3 rpm with high stability. Sorry my bad English
in 3 phase design you can use rc style driver, that would work. i have made 3phase version with this coil so you can have a look on that
How much voltage is applied?
It's 12V, since mosfets wouln't handle more.
What controller or amplifier you are using ?Does you directly give 12 volt supply to the coil
It's simple H bridge with hall sensor, there are more details in later videos I made
Where do you mount the hall sensor? How do you connect the hall sensor ? Can you please give some links to buy H bridge + hall sensor + software to work ? BEST REGARDS :) @@IlusysSystems
how much turns and gauge of 1kw motor
waiting for your answer
So it's a monophase generator right ?
yes.
You can use more coils to have more phases.
Can this motor also work as generator
Sure, all motors can.
I tried to make my own but for some reason it is not producing electricity when I spin it, I'm thinking it's the positive and negative wire, how do you connect them? I'm new to electronics
This is synchronous AC motor. this means that when run as generator it will output AC (alternating current) at a frequency directly proportional to rotor speed.
Either switch your meter to AC or use full bridge rectifier with 1-phase generator.
@@IlusysSystems ahh i was going to use it as a water generator, but to store the energy in a battery I would have to convert this to dc with a rectifier?
Short answer: yes.
Less short: Diodes and rectifiers do have a voltage drop (0.8 - 0.5V) that will result in small, but power loss.
Using schottky diodes you can achieve smaller voltage drop (~0.1V).
Using motor driver in breaking mode can result in even lower voltage drop, but will require rather complex electronics, that increases cost and consumes some power themselves.
Can this thing be used as a Brake for wind turbine through a PCB to slow down magnet rotor spin when winds are blowing at high speed ? PCB can be programmed in such a way to activate voltage when high wind is detected through a wind sensor ?
nice design. would it be better with some metal or ferite cores?
Thanks,
As far as system is efficient, presence of iron core shouldn't affect efficiency. At least not by much.
To a motor as this addition of iron core would mean:
- increase of torque
- decrease of max RPM (200 - 500)
- probably increase of max power rating of motor (dunno how much - magnetic flux will be more concentrated as there will be smaller air gap)
- and jerky motion when freewheeling (assuming discrete blobs of core)
If I was building wind generator, or motor where larger torque and slower speeds are required I would probably go with iron core.
I got an idea, still untested to use iron shavings (must be silicon steel - magnet supplier should have this) to form a core. Simply mix shavings with epoxy and mould that to form a core.
Or use this mixture to cast whole stator as in 3 phase system you would have to do that regardless.
@@IlusysSystems laser printer toner contain iron oxide which is used to make ferrite cores
do you plan on making some ebike projects with home build motor?
@@Timsturbs ferrite may help, but you generally want highest possible permeability.
@@IlusysSystems oi
@@IlusysSystems You may want to see the bldc motor i built. I used iron (steel banding) in my stator to reduce the number of turns on my coils. This allowed me to have a very thin and flat arangement of three coils in my stator.
My motor is an axial flux bldc motor, with a slotless iron core,
Judging by sound, my motor has very little torque ripple. But in all fairness the motor uses 3 phase but my stator's iron, being slotless, does not cause iron "cogging" jerking.
Just turning it on the motor controller at its lowest setting, causes my motor to spin at about 1800 rpm when fed 1.49vac.
Brutal
Could you run this in reverse for electrical generation? If so what would be the efficiency
Yes, you can, I was able to get about 70% efficiency in 3 phase configuration.
Maybe if you would add more phases or use iror powder as epoxy filler you can squeeze more efficiency, but I haven't tested that.
I have tested efficiency in motor configuration, so there could be switching losses that wouldn't be there in generator configuration as well but I think that it will be pretty similar.
@@IlusysSystems ahhh awesome. and thank you so much for the reply, was kind of surprised by it since it's such an old video. so thank you. Yeah because this looks ideal for a small off the grid cabin me and a friend wanna build since we won't need much power, basically just running some lights and maybe helping to charge some solar batteries
was also thinking you could stack them on top of each other for generation and have a switch system that can either distribute power to other things or be connected together for higher power depending on needs
One more thing - the cost of commercially available low KV bldc's for use in drones and RC stuff is plummitting, so it may be worth looking into these. If you want some serious power output , like 1KW per generator, these can easily get more cheaper if you find model that you can drive easily. Same can go for designated generator systems, but these are typically expensive.
My parts were laser cut, I used stainless magnet retainers and prety thick materials for convenience and I was able to get to ~ $1 per watt. it you have cutter, and just glue magnets, buy in bulk you can probably half the price to $0.5 per watt or maybe even $0.25 per watt. Magnets and copper are most expensive items really though.
@@neillcoetzer9133 Yes you can stack rotors with this system, which is quite nice.
No need for fancy switching or anything like that really, just align rotors and wire stators in parallel. if you don't want to deal with consistency, you would need switching though, or just rectification at least
It doesn't work
Wrong frequency maybe ?
How are you driving this motor with AC?
Hall sensor..
What kind of mold did you use for the epoxy?
Molds are quite problematic... I tend to use random circular objects wrapped with tape around, and use hot melt glue to copy circle. Not great though...
In this case I may used a pvc hose + hot melt glue
@@IlusysSystems That's a good way of doing it, I'm kind of new to motors but I was wondering what you connected the two copper wires to for the output?
Wait nevermind I see now, thanks man
good Job
thx
cool !!!
nice thank,s
❤️
All TV
COOL!!! LIKE
Thanks!
👍👍
can we use this type of coil for single phase axial flux alternator
Should be OK to do so...
Yes
plesse teeel how nmmmany rawonds
Depends on your needs, I have some stats in other videos
I meant, look in BLDC playlist I guess
How many winds ?
this one had about 40 turns
Thank you.
I'm going to make 3, and put on each other,
but I skip one centimeter from each other.
To build a generator
I would rather place magnets on both sides of steel plate so you can do 3 stages with 4 plates.
I am still working on 3 phase system to increase efficiency.
50ish % is rather low, but it depends on your needs obviously
Yes, 3 phase, with 2 plates magnets, so below and above plate with magnets, and the coils on each other. But then each coil shifts 1 centimeter
Hm you mean, that 3 stators are offset by 120deg to work as 3 phases? that wouldn't be much more efficient...
or 3x3phase stators? that would be better.
I was thinking about config like:
=|O|O|O|O|=
instead of
=|O|=|O|=|O|=|O|=
where = is shaft, | is plate with magnets and O is stator coil
I was going to ask if you saw my other videos on this subject, but I see that you are subscriber(thanks :)
I mean they get a lot less views and there is some useful info
For example, I get why people do want to build this type of generators/motors - it's cheap, simple and customizable, but I am not convinced, that it is much more cost effective.
at least until I get it to work above 80% efficiency
Right now my best result was 60%
Ahaha....... you always start roting with your hand first...
But there are many people who make rotor without starting roting in hand.... bro make motor that can carry 100 weight
Вот мой генератор ruclips.net/video/Cl4BNoydRzM/видео.html
не могли бы вы помочь мне создать это ... Я видел ваше видео, и это здорово! не могли бы вы поделиться подробностями о том, как вы сконструировали двигатель, показанный в вашем видео?
join ME. EMFE .. Engineering of Magnetic Force Engines FACEBOOK
This is one of the most ridiculous, time intensive and inefficient motors I have seen made to date on RUclips. After a month or so of learning about motor build I can think of half a dozen improvements already but your just going to have to find them for yourself.
Half a dozen is not a lot :)
May be a month will not be sufficient as you're genius enough to make for everyone a demonstration of a very simple and efficient motor for almost no cost. Whaaaa
Wow, you may be the most pompous ass I've ever seen comment on youtube.
good works on your bldc multiple flat coil do you used bldc controller
this is 1 phase motor, so the driver is like CPU fan driver, just powerful.