Love this episode. I am from Waterford and I am pretty sure the Norsemen of the then settlement of Waterford were under the overlordship of Brian and actually fought with him against the norsemen of Dublin.
There were indeed several norse factions fighting alongside Brian at Clontarf. It reinforces the idea that this wasn't a campaign to drive the norsemen out so much as a campaign to bring the whole island under Brian's control.
I'm glad you enjoyed them! I do have plans to cover the Norman invasion, I hope to get quite in depth on it, beginning with a discussion of the irregularities of the Irish church which led to the issuing of the papal bull Laudabiliter.
Imperator Scotorum means General of the Irish. I think the word for Emperor is August or Princeps, the Imperator were the Generals of the Roman Legions or people who could exert militar power (more or less like a Warden, Protector, Marshall or whatever you wanna call it). PS: Really liked your style of the video and how is narrated, so keep up the good work.
@@kingofcards9 Yes I agrre that it means first citizen, but the point is that the first citizen had authority beyond the senate (just as an Emperor does). Imperator is someone who leads a legion and you would have lots of them. There times in Roman history where they have many Imperators waging war for Rome, but it doesn't mean that they were all Emperors. Many cultures have used Imperator just because they were familiar with the Roman word, but it doesn't mean they understood it. Kaiser and Tzar comes from Caesar for example.
@@stronzius9327 the reason for many Roman governors having the title imperator is because the governors after gaining territory would ask their men to hail them imperator so they could have a triumph and they held that title until a triumph was given.
So the question is, why isn't Brian boru mentioned much in history regarding kings. You hear about king Richard, king louie, king Charles, king Henry, but we don't hear much of Brian. Why?
I think discussion of Kings and Kingdoms is often restricted to the European/English context, because those monarchies were more established. Brian managed to achieve something that few other Irish rulers had come close to, but it didn't last. Maybe if the unification of Ireland under Brian had been permanent, he would feature more prominently in the wider consciousness about European monarchies. Who knows? Maybe in an alternative timeline there is an O'Brien dynasty which led a unified Ireland to participate in the crusades? Or involve itself in European power politics? That would undoubtedly have led to a situation in the modern day where more non-Irish people would be aware of Brian.
@@historicaldelving5426 Isn't the main reason we know about King Richard, Louis, Charles and so on is twofold. Firstly Brian Boru reigned long before the others mentioned here, around the time of the Angle Saxons in England, and we don't know a huge amount about them outside of the Anglo Saxon chronicles and religious writers like Beade, and they were probably making comments about the Kings because Alfred the Great had embraced Christianity and made it a bit part of his rule. Secondly, and something linked to my previous point, is that in Ireland there seems to have been (correct me if I'm wrong here) a more oral tradition of passing down history than that of writing things down, and as we know as a story gets passed down orally they get changed, embellished, sometimes on purpose, mostly I'd say by accident (that and this coupled with the fact that written documents degrade over time and need to be stored where they won't degrade and aren't destroyed by future conquests). There are annals as mentioned in the video, but they aren't very comprehensive, I doubt they were written as historical documents. I've only just found your channel, but thank you for these two videos on Brian Boru. I'm from England but have quite a bit of Irish ancestry. I only recently just found out that the O'Briens (son of Brian) got their name from Brian Boru, it just hasn't dawned on me before, but makes perfect sense, and that they came from County Clare. I just thought I'd share this. Lastly (and you may have already done this, but if you haven't I'd love to know more) my grandpa came from a region of Ulster that on your maps is named as Airgalla, situated around South Armagh. From my understand it became a vasal to the O'Neill's, but a ruled by the O'Hanlons, one of the last parts of Gaelic Ireland to be subjugated by the English. I don't know how much history there is about this area, but I believe there was a battle against the Norse/Vikings somewhere near Carlingford Lough, it might have even involved Brian Boru if my memory serves me right. I'd love to know more about this part of Ireland, maybe you could do a video on it?
Hi Matt, certainly Brian's relative antiquity compared to latter European rulers makes him more obscure, so that is probably a big aspect of why he's not well known outside for Ireland. As for the historic tradition in Ireland, a great deal was written down, but this was mostly by monks or other men of the cloth, much like in England during the same period. Most people in the 11th century were illiterate, even among the higher social classes. I can't recall much about the battle in Ulster which you mentioned off the top of my head, but when I get the time I'd be happy to do some research on it. I'm currently very bogged down with my degree which is why there hasn't been a video on this channel for several months. Once my thesis is finished I plan to get back to it.
@@historicaldelving5426 No problem about being bogged down, it's just a thought for a future video. As for your comments about monks chronicling a lot, yes I'm sure they did just like in England, but you mentioned in your video that the church was separate from the nobility and that Brian made Armagh the centre for the Irish church by making all monasteries from everywhere in Ireland have to pay a proportion of their taxes/contributions they would at the time pay to their local ruler to the centralised Armagh one, so from this I assumed (though I could be wrong) that whatever they wrote down (much of which is probably lost by now after invasion multiple times) won't have been so closely tied to the High Kings, I had thought that they were a bit more, how do I put this, contemplating the word of God and isolating themselves in remote locations rather than being warrior monks like some of their English counterparts seemed to be (maybe I'm wrong on this point). But you're right in that the common people couldn't read or write back then and it would be the monks that were doing any recording of events and that seems to have been patchy at best (and that's even in countries where many written texts survived) Good luck with your studies and I have your other videos to watch in the meantime.
I would say it is very unlikely. Nothing is impossible of course, but I don't imagine there would have been many opportunities for the Romans and the Irish to mix, given that the island was never invaded.
I was under the impression that there is some Italian blood in the lineage post-O’Brien reign. Just before the Irish throne was absorbed into the United Kingdom and ultimately became predominantly under the control of the British monarchy. But, that’s just one historical account I’ve heard.
I would be very surprised to hear that there was Italian blood in the O'Brien family at any period of Irish history. The island had contact with France and Spain but Italy seems a little too far away for 11th Century Ireland to be interacting with. Where did you hear this if you don't mind me asking?
A channel called Useful Charts on famous Irish royal houses and dynasties. Keep in mind I said post-O’Brien reign. And, before coming under control of the British/U.K.
@@historicaldelving5426 I agree with you it's highly unlikely but didn't the Phoenicians and a lot of the Mediterranean get their copper and tin from Cornwall so it's it a stretch that there was contact between what is now Italy and Ireland? Again there's no evidence, but there is also the myth that one Irish ruler's dynasty descended from an Egyptian princess? Again that is a myth and there's no evidence to back it up but anything is possible as you say.
(i) the "modern opinion" of historians is just that, opinion, with a great deal of their own agenda attached to it. It's not to say the earliest historians were always correct or honest but they were certainly closer to the events themselves and the ripples from the zeitgeist extant around the time of Brian Boru would still be reverberating and their takes shouldn't be completely discounted. Surely we can assume there was friction between the 2 very different cultures (Norse, Irish). And you yourself mentioned that Ireland at the time was quite tribal. (ii) It would be interesting if you did a part 3 that followed the descendants of Brian Boru into early modern history and, for example, the O'Brien family, descendants of Boru who became the Baron Inchiquin lineage along with any other such prominent families.
Hi rdwwdr3520, thanks for your comment. I would be wary of condemning modern historiography as "opinion" No historian would get far if they were not able to show convincing evidence of their theories. Do modern historians have biases? Yes absolutely. Does that invalidate their work? Not at all. Reading through an author's biases is part of the historian's skillset. Regarding primary sources from the time. I fully agree that they should not be discounted. That said, pre-modern historians always had a strong agenda when writing. Far stronger than any modern historian (who is serious about their trade) this is why we have to be wary of primary sources, even as we rely upon them for their closeness to events. On continuing this series, I'm afraid I don't know when that will be possible. Life has become significantly busier for me since I started this channel. As you can see from my channel, it had unfortunately been a very long time since I have been able to put together a video. I do hope to get back to this, but I can't give a date. Thanks again for your comment.
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Nice vid
Great video. Enjoyed the stories of Brian Boru. Both videos were great. Thank you
Terrific video.
Glad you enjoyed it John! Thanks for watching.
What a great couple videos. glad i stumbled upon this channel
I'm glad you stumbled on it too :) thanks for watching
Great video.
Love this episode. I am from Waterford and I am pretty sure the Norsemen of the then settlement of Waterford were under the overlordship of Brian and actually fought with him against the norsemen of Dublin.
There were indeed several norse factions fighting alongside Brian at Clontarf. It reinforces the idea that this wasn't a campaign to drive the norsemen out so much as a campaign to bring the whole island under Brian's control.
Great video, well done. Looking forward to your next one.
Thank you Lee!
"... a flagrant display of cheap cliffhanger tactics." Ok, that got me. Subscribed.
What an excellent pair of videos on a brilliant tale! Liked and subbed. Have you ever thought of covering the Norman invasion?
I'm glad you enjoyed them! I do have plans to cover the Norman invasion, I hope to get quite in depth on it, beginning with a discussion of the irregularities of the Irish church which led to the issuing of the papal bull Laudabiliter.
@@historicaldelving5426 Looking forward to it.
Brilliant loved this video.
Thank you!
@@historicaldelving5426 ever consider covering the battle of moira and high king Domnall the 2nd.
I'll have a look into it. If I feel there's enough there for a video I'll put one together.
Imperator Scotorum means General of the Irish. I think the word for Emperor is August or Princeps, the Imperator were the Generals of the Roman Legions or people who could exert militar power (more or less like a Warden, Protector, Marshall or whatever you wanna call it).
PS: Really liked your style of the video and how is narrated, so keep up the good work.
Ah ok my mistake, thanks for watching!
Princeps ment first citizen and Augustus was a title, imperator does mean Emperor and Roman generals were governors.
@@kingofcards9 Yes I agrre that it means first citizen, but the point is that the first citizen had authority beyond the senate (just as an Emperor does). Imperator is someone who leads a legion and you would have lots of them. There times in Roman history where they have many Imperators waging war for Rome, but it doesn't mean that they were all Emperors. Many cultures have used Imperator just because they were familiar with the Roman word, but it doesn't mean they understood it. Kaiser and Tzar comes from Caesar for example.
@@stronzius9327 the reason for many Roman governors having the title imperator is because the governors after gaining territory would ask their men to hail them imperator so they could have a triumph and they held that title until a triumph was given.
Interesting🧐
So the question is, why isn't Brian boru mentioned much in history regarding kings. You hear about king Richard, king louie, king Charles, king Henry, but we don't hear much of Brian. Why?
I think discussion of Kings and Kingdoms is often restricted to the European/English context, because those monarchies were more established. Brian managed to achieve something that few other Irish rulers had come close to, but it didn't last. Maybe if the unification of Ireland under Brian had been permanent, he would feature more prominently in the wider consciousness about European monarchies. Who knows? Maybe in an alternative timeline there is an O'Brien dynasty which led a unified Ireland to participate in the crusades? Or involve itself in European power politics? That would undoubtedly have led to a situation in the modern day where more non-Irish people would be aware of Brian.
@@historicaldelving5426 Isn't the main reason we know about King Richard, Louis, Charles and so on is twofold. Firstly Brian Boru reigned long before the others mentioned here, around the time of the Angle Saxons in England, and we don't know a huge amount about them outside of the Anglo Saxon chronicles and religious writers like Beade, and they were probably making comments about the Kings because Alfred the Great had embraced Christianity and made it a bit part of his rule.
Secondly, and something linked to my previous point, is that in Ireland there seems to have been (correct me if I'm wrong here) a more oral tradition of passing down history than that of writing things down, and as we know as a story gets passed down orally they get changed, embellished, sometimes on purpose, mostly I'd say by accident (that and this coupled with the fact that written documents degrade over time and need to be stored where they won't degrade and aren't destroyed by future conquests). There are annals as mentioned in the video, but they aren't very comprehensive, I doubt they were written as historical documents.
I've only just found your channel, but thank you for these two videos on Brian Boru. I'm from England but have quite a bit of Irish ancestry. I only recently just found out that the O'Briens (son of Brian) got their name from Brian Boru, it just hasn't dawned on me before, but makes perfect sense, and that they came from County Clare. I just thought I'd share this.
Lastly (and you may have already done this, but if you haven't I'd love to know more) my grandpa came from a region of Ulster that on your maps is named as Airgalla, situated around South Armagh. From my understand it became a vasal to the O'Neill's, but a ruled by the O'Hanlons, one of the last parts of Gaelic Ireland to be subjugated by the English. I don't know how much history there is about this area, but I believe there was a battle against the Norse/Vikings somewhere near Carlingford Lough, it might have even involved Brian Boru if my memory serves me right. I'd love to know more about this part of Ireland, maybe you could do a video on it?
Hi Matt, certainly Brian's relative antiquity compared to latter European rulers makes him more obscure, so that is probably a big aspect of why he's not well known outside for Ireland.
As for the historic tradition in Ireland, a great deal was written down, but this was mostly by monks or other men of the cloth, much like in England during the same period. Most people in the 11th century were illiterate, even among the higher social classes.
I can't recall much about the battle in Ulster which you mentioned off the top of my head, but when I get the time I'd be happy to do some research on it. I'm currently very bogged down with my degree which is why there hasn't been a video on this channel for several months. Once my thesis is finished I plan to get back to it.
@@historicaldelving5426 No problem about being bogged down, it's just a thought for a future video.
As for your comments about monks chronicling a lot, yes I'm sure they did just like in England, but you mentioned in your video that the church was separate from the nobility and that Brian made Armagh the centre for the Irish church by making all monasteries from everywhere in Ireland have to pay a proportion of their taxes/contributions they would at the time pay to their local ruler to the centralised Armagh one, so from this I assumed (though I could be wrong) that whatever they wrote down (much of which is probably lost by now after invasion multiple times) won't have been so closely tied to the High Kings, I had thought that they were a bit more, how do I put this, contemplating the word of God and isolating themselves in remote locations rather than being warrior monks like some of their English counterparts seemed to be (maybe I'm wrong on this point). But you're right in that the common people couldn't read or write back then and it would be the monks that were doing any recording of events and that seems to have been patchy at best (and that's even in countries where many written texts survived)
Good luck with your studies and I have your other videos to watch in the meantime.
Lion of Ireland, by the American-Irish author Morgan Llywelyn, is a novel about the life of the Irish hero and High King Brian Boru.
Brian’s 5th grandson was Mac consaidin is there a connection between Brian and the emperor Constantine?
I would say it is very unlikely. Nothing is impossible of course, but I don't imagine there would have been many opportunities for the Romans and the Irish to mix, given that the island was never invaded.
I was under the impression that there is some Italian blood in the lineage post-O’Brien reign. Just before the Irish throne was absorbed into the United Kingdom and ultimately became predominantly under the control of the British monarchy. But, that’s just one historical account I’ve heard.
I would be very surprised to hear that there was Italian blood in the O'Brien family at any period of Irish history. The island had contact with France and Spain but Italy seems a little too far away for 11th Century Ireland to be interacting with. Where did you hear this if you don't mind me asking?
A channel called Useful Charts on famous Irish royal houses and dynasties. Keep in mind I said post-O’Brien reign. And, before coming under control of the British/U.K.
@@historicaldelving5426 I agree with you it's highly unlikely but didn't the Phoenicians and a lot of the Mediterranean get their copper and tin from Cornwall so it's it a stretch that there was contact between what is now Italy and Ireland? Again there's no evidence, but there is also the myth that one Irish ruler's dynasty descended from an Egyptian princess? Again that is a myth and there's no evidence to back it up but anything is possible as you say.
(i) the "modern opinion" of historians is just that, opinion, with a great deal of their own agenda attached to it. It's not to say the earliest historians were always correct or honest but they were certainly closer to the events themselves and the ripples from the zeitgeist extant around the time of Brian Boru would still be reverberating and their takes shouldn't be completely discounted. Surely we can assume there was friction between the 2 very different cultures (Norse, Irish). And you yourself mentioned that Ireland at the time was quite tribal. (ii) It would be interesting if you did a part 3 that followed the descendants of Brian Boru into early modern history and, for example, the O'Brien family, descendants of Boru who became the Baron Inchiquin lineage along with any other such prominent families.
Hi rdwwdr3520, thanks for your comment. I would be wary of condemning modern historiography as "opinion" No historian would get far if they were not able to show convincing evidence of their theories. Do modern historians have biases? Yes absolutely. Does that invalidate their work? Not at all. Reading through an author's biases is part of the historian's skillset.
Regarding primary sources from the time. I fully agree that they should not be discounted. That said, pre-modern historians always had a strong agenda when writing. Far stronger than any modern historian (who is serious about their trade) this is why we have to be wary of primary sources, even as we rely upon them for their closeness to events.
On continuing this series, I'm afraid I don't know when that will be possible. Life has become significantly busier for me since I started this channel. As you can see from my channel, it had unfortunately been a very long time since I have been able to put together a video. I do hope to get back to this, but I can't give a date. Thanks again for your comment.