My uncle is ex-SBS and I'm in a chat with him and his mates from his squad, so I asked them. One had one with the broadsword hands and sold it recently for $100,000 approx (accounting for inflation). Most of them don't have theirs anymore and one said they were eventually reissued CWC watches.
Richard, I am thrilled with your channel and have had to make a Playlist. 😊 Watches have always been my interest, but I am pleased to tell you that my youngest daughter is 3 years into becoming a watchmaker. I am so proud of her! My late husband was given one of these exemplary watches, and he left it to me. He was a Marine in the Special Forces. I still have it (in a safe) and know what it is worth. I myself served 30 years in the Royal Navy as a naval surgeon, but my own watch after I left the service is a Breitling Emergency which I still have, and that also is a collector's piece. In 2015/16 I bought another which I have to this day. My current Breitling Emergency has saved my life twice. I'm now in the helicopter "ER" service, happily off-duty today. Thank you so much for this video! Wendi J, LtCdr (retired).
I used to think that getting a watch serviced was a good thing. It kept the watch new and fresh looking and running to perfection. Making the watch look new by replacing old parts like the dial and hands or polishing the watch to make it look new again all seemed like a great idea. Now I realize that it is an absolutely horrible thing to do! I don't know what the value of this watch is. I guess it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay but it is obvious that it would be worth way more with the original dial and hands. Nothing was even mentioned about polishing but I'm sure the watch was also polished at servicing also reducing the value of the watch. I would really like to know what this watch eventually sells for.
I have a 1940 Rolex OP that belonged to my grandfather. He did exactly what you describe: replaced parts as seemed needed, polished it as needed, etc., to keep it in "good condition". He was a very practical man, didn't for a moment think of "value" in the way a collector does. Original lume was radium, of course, and so the hands and dial got swapped out when that stopped glowing. Crystal and bracelet likewise vanished over the years as they got worn out. After 80+ years, it still keeps excellent time, but no collector today would even look at it - its only value is to me (and eventually my daughter) because of its history. Which is not a bad thing: auction it off to a stranger, and what's left? Only a price tag.
I’m no expert but I would guess ~$70k, or about half of what an all original goes for. The biggest issue is the lack of sword hands (followed by the service dial and non-fixed spring bars). It’s still a great watch though and the provenance will help.
With so much repetitive rubbish about Rolex watches on RUclips lately this is by far the best video I’ve seen in a long long time... Informative and Knowledgeable - Brilliant👍🏻
My father still has his 1956 GMT 6542 with the original bakelite bezel. He bought it in 1957 while in Bern. It's in immaculate condition. I was just wondering what the value might be for insurance purposes. Thanks
Beautiful watch. Thanks for sharing the story. My sub 16613 was purchased to mark the birth of my son nearly 18 years ago in 2005 and it is still keeping perfect time and gets a lot of wrist time. Hopefully one day he will have a story to tell about it and maybe even pass it on to a son or daughter of his own.
All I kept from my 33 years in the Army were my 'ginger suit' and slime-green beret. Everything else went back to the QM. My brown shoes were almost new, so they went into the 'spare kit' cupboard.
I'm getting my 5513/5517, double reference, certification report being completed as I write this. I also had a service done a short time earlier. If memory serves me correctly, mine was last serviced in 1991 or 1997, according to the case back. I had previously posted my watch on a FB Military Watch site and mine was called a fake. Of course they never said what was fake and one of the guys is a big collector. Rolex did the service and a Rolex certified Master Watch maker is finishing up his report this week. It is my understanding that if a Rolex is fake, Rolex won't even touch the watch? Never believe "so called" collector experts. I really like this video, very informative!
Phenomenal story Richard. Thanks for sharing. These 5513 Milsubs would have come with fixed spring bars. I would be interested in understanding how those fixed bars were removed and standard spring bars installed. Do you think the case had to be drilled for the standard spring bars?
I am surprised that you never had an answer. It is very simple process the bar is cut through at the inner side of the lugs just leaving a short section of bar in the lug. The watch is then held in a padded holder being truly vertical and horizontal then having the short section of the bar still in the lug drilled to suit the correct size of the spring bar end. This method was commonly used for military watches with a fixed bar and can be reverted to the fixed bar simply and quickly by removing the stubs of the original bar in each lug then fitting a replacement fixed bar.
I think the fixed pins are larger than 1.2mm dia and you would end up with a lager hole ? I think this is a new case but I don't know and does the movement serial no. tally up with the case serial no. Who knows only Richard knows !@@jas20per Edit, just paused the vid to look at the lugs and it does look like they were removed as the holes are large so probably is an original case !
Well done Richard. Loved the video and the historical content of it. A really fascinating journey into that piece and movement. Great stuff. Thanks for the journey...
That was another beautiful video Richard. As to the value I would expect it to reach at least 15 times the price I paid in 1974 for my first Victorian house in Bexley Kent. Take care & stay safe sir 👍🇬🇧
When I was heavily into collecting British Broad Arrow Mil issued watches in the 80’s I had a couple of these ref 5517’s pass though my hands. The British MOD issued both Rolex and Omega divers watches although the 5517 was considered the one to get if you could afford it. You could pick up a nice example for $12-17k which was allot of money back then but prices now are just ridiculous even taking inflation into account. The service dial is absolutely killing the value. The original sword hands you can source for a hefty, but semi-affordable price, but an original correct dial variant is unattainium or would be such a crazy high price that it probably wouldn’t be worth it. Many I saw had the permanent soldered lug bars replaced with springbars as people wanted to mount bracelets or a nice leather strap. Not having the soldered bars will also hurt the value. Still it’s a nice piece and pretty sure it would fetch over $100k at auction, if the right buyer was bidding that is. BTW these 5517’s are very often faked or otherwise monkeyed with. Beware, If the price is to good to be true there’s probably a reason. Nobody is letting these things go cheap
Richard, many thanks for this post, however I have a question you may be able to help me with. Approx 1990 I was a shpfitter working in Weymouth, there used to be an army/navy surplus store near the front and they had for sale 3 pieces (milsubs I think) from memory identical to this one with one exception, the indices lume was yellow, almost a mustard colour (at the time they were asking £300 each from memory. Also a nato strap in black. From memory they were identical to this one apart from the face, you mentioned they face had been changed were they yellow originally or perhaps this was a different model? Bob
I own one of these watches that has been in a draw for many rears un worn after its last service. I am now considering its sale but the only problem I am finding is the fluctuating price at auction. Do you think this will ever stabilise, or will it continue its march forever upward.
Collectors, willing to pay good money for a piece are very picky and thorough.......once having had parts changed , the potential for a good selling price drops.....just like the Chinese balloon this past week.
There is a great episode of Antiques Road Show from Jan 2020 where a guy bought a Rolex Cosmograph Oyster reference 6263 for $350 when he was in the military in '71. Very few Oyster Cases were made of that watch so it was rare as well. Never wore it. It stayed in a safe deposit box. He had all of the paperwork including his receipt, both the outer and inner box and a blank warranty card. They appraised it at $700,000. He said that ones that were worn were about $400,000. I would place this watch in that category from rarity perspective but I am going to drop it down due to the fact that it was worn so much. $250-300K
I'd like to ask where you got the magnifier that attaches to your glasses. I do watch repair as a hobby, and so I looked online for something similar to yours, but the reviews advised it was junk. I wondered if there was a specific brand I should look into. I enjoy your videos for a nice, relaxing break. Thanks!
Very nice back story with the watch. My estimate cost of that watch? Due to the very low numbers of examples available.... god knows! I'd guess at 200k - 500k but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it went for more, I'm no expert in valuation of Rolex watches, but I've seen some crazy things in my time.
Fascinating. These watches that were used as they were designed to be used must all have interesting stories. It reminds me of Duncan Falconer's hilarious story of his SBS issued Rolex.
Hi Wendy... Nice to hear from you. I have been working on several videos so hopefully I will have a new one out soon. Thanks so much for the support. Richard
Hi Gunther. No at all. It's complicated to explain, and I am not a lawyer, but the military has its own systems for ensuring items are paid for where this is appropriate. Payment and displinary action can occur at the time of loss or damage but often the circumstances can be so traumatic that these are unthinlkable. Whatever, the item has to be formally 'written-off' as part of that process. The stores register 'has to balance' and if someone is deemed culpable then they have to pay for the item. Often they are not culpable becasue they were being shot at at the time of loss or damage. Hope this helps. Richard
Wow such a nice piece! Bummer that the dial may have been changed! What is interesting is that the dial is clearly a MilSub type but it is stamped as a chronometer grade!? The movement however, is the non-chronometer 1520 so doesn’t match dial! The case number of 5513 is correct for a 1520. The 1570 is a chronometer grade and was fitted in Subs of this period. These movements (1570) along with the earlier 1560 chronometer grade movements were used in the 5512 case numbers! So that dial is very perplexing and not pictured in any of the references I have for the MilSub. I hope someone can locate a tritium “pearl” for the bezel insert! That’s the original bezel insert for the MilSub because it has all 60 minute markers instead of the standard 15 min markers. Bezel insert alone must be worth a ton of money! As far as value goes with less than 200 produced you could be looking at $200-300k or more! Maybe more if it had the original dial and sword hands!
You’re on drugs if you think this is worth 200k. There’s an all original on Chrono24 for $140k and the service dial (or possible fake) and no sword hands will smash that significantly. Vintage Rolex is all about originality and the multiples paid for it are astounding - a big crown for example can sell for $500k if perfect auction grade, while there’s a service watch for under 50k on chrono.
Still going 'strong' after 30 plus years without a service a testament to the recognised quality maker. 'Value' .. mm .. roughly 200 known to be still about world wide although quite a few changes in the short Mfg of the 'Milsub' as I understand it so I'd go £200k. Thanks as always for sharing. atvb t ..
I noticed that this watch has the "Mercedes" hands and the second hand is not the "sword" type. I was under the impression that the letter hand model was the more rare version that is limited to 1200 units?
How much is it worth? Well, it's kind of priceless - a symbol of the bond between brothers-in-arms, which can run very deep. So in one sense, it shouldn't fetch a price at all! However, if I know British armed forces "brothers in arms" at all, I know they'd be saying, "sell it for every single damn penny you can get for it you dafty, but you're buying me several very good drinks afterwards!".
I guess you already know that the audio between the two men discussing the watch wasn't that great, so I won't comment on it. That not said, thanks for a nice piece on my favorite brand.
It’s my understanding that all Milsubs were made with fixed spring bars which, if true, means this either isn’t a genuine Milsub or it’s been modified.
9:30 I would doubt the watch was indeed serviced by the same individual. One is highly unlikely to change how he/she writes the date format. In the 1988 date, you have month and year separated by a slash, whereas the 1991 date includes day, with the date separated by dashes. Also, the shape of the 5 is too dissimilar. These issues cast too much doubt on the plausibility of being written by the same person in my opinion.
At last an interesting video on a Rolex on youtube. I love a MilSub. Its value is £30-40k I'd of thought at the moment looking at recent sale prices for non full spec watches. Non original dial, hands and drilled case bars will affect the value. If the bezel is original thats probably £20,000 on its own so a positive. If the case back and case numbers match thats good but I cant see it getting a fortune at auction. The provenance is worth a few quid being from an SBS trooper.
Wow watching you stress over getting the back off sucked I had that problem once & what I did was use an old bezel the same size or a TINY bit bigger and laid that down first than put a pad/cloth on top of it then lined up the crystal over it and added pressure. The crystal this way was never in contact with anything at all that could break it because the 2 bezels were taking all the pressure. Works every time. Good luck
Call me crazy but I'm seriously considering modifying my 5513. I would like to get some sword hands aged faux-tina to match the maxi dial tritium on the 1520 movement and get a full minute mark bezel insert. I know Rolex fan boys will S**T but I want the MilSub look without paying $90K plus. Besides it's my Submariner and I'm not making it into a Frankenstein MilSub. I'm not getting a "T" printed on the dial, or stamping a military arrow on the case back. It's still a Rolex, keeping the lug holes and spring-bars for a bracelet. I never liked Mercedes hands, and sword hands are more visible, easy to read the time at a glance. Has anyone every done that to a vintage 5513 Rolex?
Hi Richard, do you have a detailed video on watch cleaning the way you do it! Or I wonder if you can explain in detail for me how you do it? I’ve been a watchmaker hobbyist for 2 and a half years now with a good ultrasonic watching with sweep mode and I use Elma cleaning and rinsing fluids. I often have to revert to hand cleaning under a microscope with a fine brush. I spend more time cleaning and drying with a. Hair dryer than anything else! It would be fantastic if you could help, it’s a hump I really need to get over. Or I could invest £500 on a second hand 1950s cleaning machine, but would rather try your method first.
Hi, your videos are always interesting and thought provoking, what a beautiful watch which could tell a lot of tales I'm sure , I wonder what the current wait time is for one of your major watches if you were signing up today? Cheers.
Good video this one. Very interesting unfortunately i couldn't quite make out what he was saying, the last 2 words of how he acquired it ! Lovely watch shame about the dial change. Did the jeweler send it to Rolex Switzerland or was it replaced and serviced by a local watchmaker? If so where did the original dial go? On the so called replacement dial are there likely to be identification code markes on it to show the date of manufacture for the dial? Auction may be £80k to £100k but i am guessing a bit and it all depends on how many people are fighting over it. Thanks
my late father was R.E.M.E attached to the Paratroop regiment. 60s 70s .his Rolex was stolen from our house......i have the box , paperwork......but sadly no watch. i enjoyed watching this. im not sure i could sell that military watch, i think id regret it but must be 100k plus
What a fantastic watch, incredible provenance, and wedding photo does not get much better! I would not even like to guess how much it will go for but a lot!
At 2:31PM he's seen wearing the 5517 in a bracelet. The problem is that these watches, like my own 5517, had fixed bars across the lugs and were meant to be worn by divers with a NATO strap. So there something not right about this picture, or the watch itself, it doesn't look legit. Was it a franken watch?
Fabulous video and great story. So many variables at play when you try to value one of these. Non original dial and would imagine a hand change too potentially. It's so true that it's only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it. Could range from 10,000 to 20,000. More than likely mid to lower end so 12,000 ish would be realistic. Just my opinion
I'm going to say $150,000 USD! Not sure how the possible parts replacement the owner mentions would affect the value but I'm totally sure it is LEGIT!! 😎
So a British Forces issued piece of equipment goes "missing on a dive" and ends up in Ian's hands. This could be interpreted as theft and subsequent handling of stolen goods. Hmmm.
Some of them disappeared that way certainly but the vast majority were decommissioned and sold at government auctions in the 80s. You could get them for around £200 back then. There were only about 2000 ever produced but only a few hundred are left today. Partially because some were lost to damage but most were cannibilized by watchmakers because an off the shelf 5513 at the time was worth about 3 to 4x what a MilSub was worth. They bought MilSubs cheap and turned them into standard 5513s. Even up to about 2000 you could grab one for about $4000 in decent shape. Now the bezel alone would fetch $20000 at auction. It is a shame this one is actually damaged. They were issued with welded lugs so you would never have been able to put a bracelet on it. That had to have been removed by a watchmaker early on.
Thats what happens to TONS of stuff in the military. All kinds of stuff gets lost/stolen/misplaced and ends up in the closet at home. Its government money and they spend it so easily. One of my friends got a few pieces of kit send to him, which got lost in the mail. Then he received a second set, and shortly after the first set arrived. They told him that they’d get in touch how to return it and never heard anything again. They dont care sadly
This is what really interests me, the real Bond watch, literally what he wore. at a better value price point the Tudor version is a mere four figures😂. Not much more than the wannabe special the Omega "Bond" seamaster, beloved of middle aged larpers and chubby airsofters everywhere.
total fake. 4.40 into the vid. stainless steel strap. i dont think so as the lug pins are welded and you would not be able to fit spring bars. Who is this joker lmao
Interesting. I must point out though that this 5513 Sub is a certified chronometer as stated on the dial, BUT Rolex did not certify 5513 movements as chronometers. I suspect that it is possible that these were ordered to be certified chrono’s. My 5513 meters first sub is not marked as being a chronometer, that’s what caught my eye in the video.
The movement is a 1520 movement but you are correct, 1520 and 1530 movements were not chronometer certified. The watches that used them usually were marked "Precision" or "Super Precision". I suspect replacement (service) dial.
Hopefully a well deserved bonus for the Vet. If they ever have a recruitment crisis they should start issuing these to soldiers again, plenty of young men would be signing up ;-)
Awesome watch. I'd have a hard time selling it if it were me, I'm mean that's something I'd want to pass down. Of course life happens but I'd do whatever I could to keep it.
What a fascinating insight into the realm of the ridiculously over priced Rolex. I'll bet the owner was gutted to discover that the Dial and Hands are not original to the timepiece. That fact has had to have had a devastating effect on the valuation. Although, as you pointed out. It is only worth what anyone is willing to pay for it. Another great upload.⌚👍
Very strange watch, firstly why would Rolex change a Tritium 5513 dial with a so called Tritium 5512 dial? and the quote of the the case back markings matching the main case would not matter as they were all purchased in bulk from Rolex in 1972 and then issued throughout the seventies until the 5517, and Rolex would not have replaced the fixed bars if damaged with spring bars as the watch would not stay secure on a Nato strap...Estimate( £30K) ...... Full Spec (£150K) .this is why simply demand a movement Service.
Love your channel keep up videos It is because of channels like you that I'm going to the watchmaking school in a year and gonna join the club of watchmakers 👌🙏
Have about 10 € to spend on toys, a month, am out of income...my watch is 20 years old, a Chinese quartz digital one, of an unreadable brand... it works fine, I finely got it to display normal time, and no am/pm american crap .. it's a night mare to make it change time from winter to summer time.. bought a black nato strap to go with it..., looking for a digital that only shows time, big, no silly extras no alarms, no useless bling, maybe the date, but nothing more, and please! No am/pm confusion...no the rolex is not for me :)
Hi Richard, HELP PLEASE. I have a silver case pocket watch from 1891, made / assembled by Ridley Hayes Erdington Birmingham, hallmark stamp for Chester. It is over wound to the max. It takes a No 4 winding key and i can`t even get a quarter turn on it to free up the click or ratchet wheel to slowly let down the mainspring. The click looks like a black eagles claw is the only way i can describe it and it`s that sharp and pointed it engages perfectly in the teeth. You also use the key to manually set the time on the dial hands. The Balance and balance hair spring are 2 separate components, removing the balance bridge and the one screw actually leaves the hairspring in place in the base. I wanted to remove this for safe keeping in readiness when i began the strip down but obviously now i can`t. I don`t want to go at this blind because i`m restoring this for my Son so it will become a family heirloom hopefully in years to come. Never seen this movement before, it`s not like any ive seen on your channel or anyone else`s for that matter, yet it is an english lever. I was going to gently loosen the screw that holds down the claw shaped click and see if i can gently lift it out the teeth without damaging anything while holding the key steady to control the unwind, not sure if that would work. Any help you can give me mate would be highly appreciated. Thanks. Glen UK, West Mids, Wolverhampton.
@@stever7097 mediocre steel three-handers. They've spent a lot on marketing though, so fearful little social climbers seem to lust after them quite a bit
My uncle is ex-SBS and I'm in a chat with him and his mates from his squad, so I asked them. One had one with the broadsword hands and sold it recently for $100,000 approx (accounting for inflation). Most of them don't have theirs anymore and one said they were eventually reissued CWC watches.
Richard, I am thrilled with your channel and have had to make a Playlist. 😊 Watches have always been my interest, but I am pleased to tell you that my youngest daughter is 3 years into becoming a watchmaker. I am so proud of her!
My late husband was given one of these exemplary watches, and he left it to me. He was a Marine in the Special Forces. I still have it (in a safe) and know what it is worth. I myself served 30 years in the Royal Navy as a naval surgeon, but my own watch after I left the service is a Breitling Emergency which I still have, and that also is a collector's piece. In 2015/16 I bought another which I have to this day. My current Breitling Emergency has saved my life twice. I'm now in the helicopter "ER" service, happily off-duty today. Thank you so much for this video! Wendi J, LtCdr (retired).
I used to think that getting a watch serviced was a good thing. It kept the watch new and fresh looking and running to perfection. Making the watch look new by replacing old parts like the dial and hands or polishing the watch to make it look new again all seemed like a great idea. Now I realize that it is an absolutely horrible thing to do! I don't know what the value of this watch is. I guess it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay but it is obvious that it would be worth way more with the original dial and hands. Nothing was even mentioned about polishing but I'm sure the watch was also polished at servicing also reducing the value of the watch. I would really like to know what this watch eventually sells for.
I have a 1940 Rolex OP that belonged to my grandfather. He did exactly what you describe: replaced parts as seemed needed, polished it as needed, etc., to keep it in "good condition". He was a very practical man, didn't for a moment think of "value" in the way a collector does. Original lume was radium, of course, and so the hands and dial got swapped out when that stopped glowing. Crystal and bracelet likewise vanished over the years as they got worn out. After 80+ years, it still keeps excellent time, but no collector today would even look at it - its only value is to me (and eventually my daughter) because of its history.
Which is not a bad thing: auction it off to a stranger, and what's left? Only a price tag.
I’m no expert but I would guess ~$70k, or about half of what an all original goes for. The biggest issue is the lack of sword hands (followed by the service dial and non-fixed spring bars). It’s still a great watch though and the provenance will help.
With so much repetitive rubbish about Rolex watches on RUclips lately this is by far the best video I’ve seen in a long long time... Informative and Knowledgeable - Brilliant👍🏻
Thanks Gary! Much appreciated. Richard
My father still has his 1956 GMT 6542 with the original bakelite bezel. He bought it in 1957 while in Bern. It's in immaculate condition. I was just wondering what the value might be for insurance purposes. Thanks
Beautiful watch. Thanks for sharing the story. My sub 16613 was purchased to mark the birth of my son nearly 18 years ago in 2005 and it is still keeping perfect time and gets a lot of wrist time. Hopefully one day he will have a story to tell about it and maybe even pass it on to a son or daughter of his own.
All I kept from my 33 years in the Army were my 'ginger suit' and slime-green beret. Everything else went back to the QM. My brown shoes were almost new, so they went into the 'spare kit' cupboard.
I'm getting my 5513/5517, double reference, certification report being completed as I write this. I also had a service done a short time earlier. If memory serves me correctly, mine was last serviced in 1991 or 1997, according to the case back. I had previously posted my watch on a FB Military Watch site and mine was called a fake. Of course they never said what was fake and one of the guys is a big collector. Rolex did the service and a Rolex certified Master Watch maker is finishing up his report this week. It is my understanding that if a Rolex is fake, Rolex won't even touch the watch? Never believe "so called" collector experts. I really like this video, very informative!
Submariners are the best.The most iconic dive watches. Great video.
Phenomenal story Richard. Thanks for sharing. These 5513 Milsubs would have come with fixed spring bars. I would be interested in understanding how those fixed bars were removed and standard spring bars installed. Do you think the case had to be drilled for the standard spring bars?
I am surprised that you never had an answer. It is very simple process the bar is cut through at the inner side of the lugs just leaving a short section of bar in the lug. The watch is then held in a padded holder being truly vertical and horizontal then having the short section of the bar still in the lug drilled to suit the correct size of the spring bar end. This method was commonly used for military watches with a fixed bar and can be reverted to the fixed bar simply and quickly by removing the stubs of the original bar in each lug then fitting a replacement fixed bar.
I think the fixed pins are larger than 1.2mm dia and you would end up with a lager hole ? I think this is a new case but I don't know and does the movement serial no. tally up with the case serial no. Who knows only Richard knows
!@@jas20per
Edit, just paused the vid to look at the lugs and it does look like they were removed as the holes are large so probably is an original case !
Really interesting, Richard, I love these kinds of stories behind watches!
Do you apply thread easing lubricant before trying to unscrew the case back? (Only today heard about a MilSub.)
Richard, you’ll be servicing my Rolex. I can be certain it’ll retain its originality with no replacement dials.
It would be a pleasure Terminal Velocity. Thanks for the feedback. Richard
During a service of the Rolex, both the dial and the hands were replaced. Why? Apparently, the owner was not consulted prior to this change out.
Well done Richard. Loved the video and the historical content of it. A really fascinating journey into that piece and movement. Great stuff.
Thanks for the journey...
That was another beautiful video Richard.
As to the value I would expect it to reach at least 15 times the price I paid in 1974 for my first Victorian house in Bexley Kent.
Take care & stay safe sir 👍🇬🇧
When I was heavily into collecting British Broad Arrow Mil issued watches in the 80’s I had a couple of these ref 5517’s pass though my hands. The British MOD issued both Rolex and Omega divers watches although the 5517 was considered the one to get if you could afford it. You could pick up a nice example for $12-17k which was allot of money back then but prices now are just ridiculous even taking inflation into account. The service dial is absolutely killing the value. The original sword hands you can source for a hefty, but semi-affordable price, but an original correct dial variant is unattainium or would be such a crazy high price that it probably wouldn’t be worth it. Many I saw had the permanent soldered lug bars replaced with springbars as people wanted to mount bracelets or a nice leather strap. Not having the soldered bars will also hurt the value. Still it’s a nice piece and pretty sure it would fetch over $100k at auction, if the right buyer was bidding that is. BTW these 5517’s are very often faked or otherwise monkeyed with. Beware, If the price is to good to be true there’s probably a reason. Nobody is letting these things go cheap
Very interesting feedback evan! Much appreciated. Richard
Great video - and congratulations, you have now reached 100.000 subscribers😎! Greetings from the Rhine Valley, Lars
Great story! I loved the history tied to this watch. Thanks for sharing Richard!
Richard, many thanks for this post, however I have a question you may be able to help me with.
Approx 1990 I was a shpfitter working in Weymouth, there used to be an army/navy surplus store near the front and they had for sale 3 pieces (milsubs I think) from memory identical to this one with one exception, the indices lume was yellow, almost a mustard colour (at the time they were asking £300 each from memory.
Also a nato strap in black.
From memory they were identical to this one apart from the face, you mentioned they face had been changed were they yellow originally or perhaps this was a different model?
Bob
Great video! Did the watch ever finally go to auction and if so, were you informed as to what it sold for?
I was waiting for an estimated price.
I own one of these watches that has been in a draw for many rears un worn after its last service. I am now considering its sale but the only problem I am finding is the fluctuating price at auction. Do you think this will ever stabilise, or will it continue its march forever upward.
An amazing watch and amazing story. I’ve no idea how to value this but looking forward to find out what happens. Brilliant channel Richard.
Hi Bradley... Stay tuned, if there is a good follow up story I will certainly make a film about it. Thanks for the great feedback. Richard
Collectors, willing to pay good money for a piece are very picky and thorough.......once having had parts changed , the potential for a good selling price drops.....just like the Chinese balloon this past week.
There is a great episode of Antiques Road Show from Jan 2020 where a guy bought a Rolex Cosmograph Oyster reference 6263 for $350 when he was in the military in '71. Very few Oyster Cases were made of that watch so it was rare as well. Never wore it. It stayed in a safe deposit box. He had all of the paperwork including his receipt, both the outer and inner box and a blank warranty card. They appraised it at $700,000. He said that ones that were worn were about $400,000. I would place this watch in that category from rarity perspective but I am going to drop it down due to the fact that it was worn so much. $250-300K
I'd like to ask where you got the magnifier that attaches to your glasses. I do watch repair as a hobby, and so I looked online for something similar to yours, but the reviews advised it was junk. I wondered if there was a specific brand I should look into. I enjoy your videos for a nice, relaxing break. Thanks!
Why are you asking what it's worth when the auction chap was about to tell us!!
Very nice back story with the watch. My estimate cost of that watch? Due to the very low numbers of examples available.... god knows! I'd guess at 200k - 500k but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it went for more, I'm no expert in valuation of Rolex watches, but I've seen some crazy things in my time.
Who else held their breath when Richard was taking the caseback off?
Fascinating. These watches that were used as they were designed to be used must all have interesting stories. It reminds me of Duncan Falconer's hilarious story of his SBS issued Rolex.
Richard, dear. You are sorely missed. It would absolutely wonderful having more regular videos from you soon. Happy weekend and God Bless. ❤
Hi Wendy... Nice to hear from you. I have been working on several videos so hopefully I will have a new one out soon. Thanks so much for the support. Richard
@@richardperrettwatchmaker You make me super happy!
I thought all Milsubs had no holes case and fixed spring bars, case sides should be brushed too.
Mine was
Is the watch still classed as "lost"? Ownership could be an issue then.
Hi Gunther. No at all. It's complicated to explain, and I am not a lawyer, but the military has its own systems for ensuring items are paid for where this is appropriate. Payment and displinary action can occur at the time of loss or damage but often the circumstances can be so traumatic that these are unthinlkable. Whatever, the item has to be formally 'written-off' as part of that process. The stores register 'has to balance' and if someone is deemed culpable then they have to pay for the item. Often they are not culpable becasue they were being shot at at the time of loss or damage. Hope this helps. Richard
Wow such a nice piece! Bummer that the dial may have been changed! What is interesting is that the dial is clearly a MilSub type but it is stamped as a chronometer grade!? The movement however, is the non-chronometer 1520 so doesn’t match dial! The case number of 5513 is correct for a 1520. The 1570 is a chronometer grade and was fitted in Subs of this period. These movements (1570) along with the earlier 1560 chronometer grade movements were used in the 5512 case numbers! So that dial is very perplexing and not pictured in any of the references I have for the MilSub. I hope someone can locate a tritium “pearl” for the bezel insert! That’s the original bezel insert for the MilSub because it has all 60 minute markers instead of the standard 15 min markers. Bezel insert alone must be worth a ton of money! As far as value goes with less than 200 produced you could be looking at $200-300k or more! Maybe more if it had the original dial and sword hands!
You’re on drugs if you think this is worth 200k. There’s an all original on Chrono24 for $140k and the service dial (or possible fake) and no sword hands will smash that significantly. Vintage Rolex is all about originality and the multiples paid for it are astounding - a big crown for example can sell for $500k if perfect auction grade, while there’s a service watch for under 50k on chrono.
That story sounds kind of sketchy
Still going 'strong' after 30 plus years without a service a testament to the recognised quality maker. 'Value' .. mm .. roughly 200 known to be still about world wide although quite a few changes in the short Mfg of the 'Milsub' as I understand it so I'd go £200k.
Thanks as always for sharing. atvb t ..
It is as you said Richard,what a buyer is willing to pay............................................................
I fully understand and appreciate your skill level after watching this 👌
I noticed that this watch has the "Mercedes" hands and the second hand is not the "sword" type. I was under the impression that the letter hand model was the more rare version that is limited to 1200 units?
Is it not like Triggers Broom though? With New Dial and Hands.
Excellent video Richard, well done
Thanks sdm107! Richard
How much is it worth? Well, it's kind of priceless - a symbol of the bond between brothers-in-arms, which can run very deep. So in one sense, it shouldn't fetch a price at all!
However, if I know British armed forces "brothers in arms" at all, I know they'd be saying, "sell it for every single damn penny you can get for it you dafty, but you're buying me several very good drinks afterwards!".
I guess you already know that the audio between the two men discussing the watch wasn't that great, so I won't comment on it. That not said, thanks for a nice piece on my favorite brand.
Fascinating and great narrative and video
At that Era, the most affordable scuba diving watch was Rolex. There was no Seiko dive watch on the market yet.
BS÷AC First Class Diver
Number 2xx
Are you sure? Think Seiko were around then.
@@Yorkshiremadmick Seiko dive watch was getting accepted by divers around 1978. Before, they leaks all the time and not reliable.
It’s my understanding that all Milsubs were made with fixed spring bars which, if true, means this either isn’t a genuine Milsub or it’s been modified.
So interesting to hear the Back story of this watch.
9:30 I would doubt the watch was indeed serviced by the same individual. One is highly unlikely to change how he/she writes the date format. In the 1988 date, you have month and year separated by a slash, whereas the 1991 date includes day, with the date separated by dashes. Also, the shape of the 5 is too dissimilar. These issues cast too much doubt on the plausibility of being written by the same person in my opinion.
Many thanks for the fascinating video. The results on the timegrapher were impressive, but then again, it is a Rolex.
Congratulations for 100k
Thanks so much Dr Omar! Richard
With a light touch restoration and replacement glass, you would have an extremely desirable watch that could fetch £150,000- £200,000 at auction
There's one for sale at 145k.
At last an interesting video on a Rolex on youtube. I love a MilSub. Its value is £30-40k I'd of thought at the moment looking at recent sale prices for non full spec watches. Non original dial, hands and drilled case bars will affect the value. If the bezel is original thats probably £20,000 on its own so a positive. If the case back and case numbers match thats good but I cant see it getting a fortune at auction. The provenance is worth a few quid being from an SBS trooper.
Wow watching you stress over getting the back off sucked
I had that problem once & what I did was use an old bezel the same size or a TINY bit bigger and laid that down first than put a pad/cloth on top of it then lined up the crystal over it and added pressure. The crystal this way was never in contact with anything at all that could break it because the 2 bezels were taking all the pressure. Works every time. Good luck
Call me crazy but I'm seriously considering modifying my 5513. I would like to get some sword hands aged faux-tina to match the maxi dial tritium on the 1520 movement and get a full minute mark bezel insert. I know Rolex fan boys will S**T but I want the MilSub look without paying $90K plus. Besides it's my Submariner and I'm not making it into a Frankenstein MilSub. I'm not getting a "T" printed on the dial, or stamping a military arrow on the case back. It's still a Rolex, keeping the lug holes and spring-bars for a bracelet. I never liked Mercedes hands, and sword hands are more visible, easy to read the time at a glance. Has anyone every done that to a vintage 5513 Rolex?
Amazing video my friend, thank you so much for this job. Huge from México. Your friend and fan Ricardo Escalante.
Thank you so much Ricardo. Very good to hear from you as always sir and greetings to you in Mexico from Wales! Richard
Nice story and history Richard!
Thanks Boyd! Good to hear from you. Richard
Hi Richard, do you have a detailed video on watch cleaning the way you do it! Or I wonder if you can explain in detail for me how you do it? I’ve been a watchmaker hobbyist for 2 and a half years now with a good ultrasonic watching with sweep mode and I use Elma cleaning and rinsing fluids. I often have to revert to hand cleaning under a microscope with a fine brush. I spend more time cleaning and drying with a. Hair dryer than anything else! It would be fantastic if you could help, it’s a hump I really need to get over. Or I could invest £500 on a second hand 1950s cleaning machine, but would rather try your method first.
Hi, your videos are always interesting and thought provoking, what a beautiful watch which could tell a lot of tales I'm sure , I wonder what the current wait time is for one of your major watches if you were signing up today? Cheers.
Good video this one. Very interesting unfortunately i couldn't quite make out what he was saying, the last 2 words of how he acquired it !
Lovely watch shame about the dial change. Did the jeweler send it to Rolex Switzerland or was it replaced and serviced by a local watchmaker? If so where did the original dial go?
On the so called replacement dial are there likely to be identification code markes on it to show the date of manufacture for the dial?
Auction may be £80k to £100k but i am guessing a bit and it all depends on how many people are fighting over it. Thanks
my late father was R.E.M.E attached to the Paratroop regiment. 60s 70s .his Rolex was stolen from our house......i have the box , paperwork......but sadly no watch. i enjoyed watching this. im not sure i could sell that military watch, i think id regret it but must be 100k plus
That is one fabulous Rolex 👍 thanks Richard lovely video
Hi James! It is cool right? Thanks for the feedback. Richard
What a fantastic watch, incredible provenance, and wedding photo does not get much better! I would not even like to guess how much it will go for but a lot!
Ouch. If I had the money, I would have purchased it and given it back to Ian
At 2:31PM he's seen wearing the 5517 in a bracelet. The problem is that these watches, like my own 5517, had fixed bars across the lugs and were meant to be worn by divers with a NATO strap. So there something not right about this picture, or the watch itself, it doesn't look legit. Was it a franken watch?
Fabulous video and great story.
So many variables at play when you try to value one of these. Non original dial and would imagine a hand change too potentially. It's so true that it's only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it. Could range from 10,000 to 20,000. More than likely mid to lower end so 12,000 ish would be realistic. Just my opinion
I thought the milsub variant has sword hands ?
£100,000. Use the hollow cup numpty. Military version didnt have mercedes hour hand
Thats not a military issue Submariner.
Tell us more watch guru ??
@@deadpool8340 real ones have fixed strap lugs.
Oh Shit, mate come on! Cool video but you could have gave an estimate
I'm going to say $150,000 USD! Not sure how the possible parts replacement the owner mentions would affect the value but I'm totally sure it is LEGIT!! 😎
its totally fake
So a British Forces issued piece of equipment goes "missing on a dive" and ends up in Ian's hands. This could be interpreted as theft and subsequent handling of stolen goods. Hmmm.
Lol i never did catch what he was saying !
Some of them disappeared that way certainly but the vast majority were decommissioned and sold at government auctions in the 80s. You could get them for around £200 back then. There were only about 2000 ever produced but only a few hundred are left today. Partially because some were lost to damage but most were cannibilized by watchmakers because an off the shelf 5513 at the time was worth about 3 to 4x what a MilSub was worth. They bought MilSubs cheap and turned them into standard 5513s. Even up to about 2000 you could grab one for about $4000 in decent shape. Now the bezel alone would fetch $20000 at auction.
It is a shame this one is actually damaged. They were issued with welded lugs so you would never have been able to put a bracelet on it. That had to have been removed by a watchmaker early on.
Thats what happens to TONS of stuff in the military. All kinds of stuff gets lost/stolen/misplaced and ends up in the closet at home. Its government money and they spend it so easily. One of my friends got a few pieces of kit send to him, which got lost in the mail. Then he received a second set, and shortly after the first set arrived. They told him that they’d get in touch how to return it and never heard anything again. They dont care sadly
Go look at the stuff Ukraine decommissioned to Africa and China.
This is what really interests me, the real Bond watch, literally what he wore. at a better value price point the Tudor version is a mere four figures😂. Not much more than the wannabe special the Omega "Bond" seamaster, beloved of middle aged larpers and chubby airsofters everywhere.
Great vid!
Nick must make a ton of money to live in a house like that ! 0:50
total fake. 4.40 into the vid. stainless steel strap. i dont think so as the lug pins are welded and you would not be able to fit spring bars. Who is this joker lmao
Congratulations, this is Your most interesting video.
Interesting. I must point out though that this 5513 Sub is a certified chronometer as stated on the dial, BUT Rolex did not certify 5513 movements as chronometers. I suspect that it is possible that these were ordered to be certified chrono’s. My 5513 meters first sub is not marked as being a chronometer, that’s what caught my eye in the video.
The movement is a 1520 movement but you are correct, 1520 and 1530 movements were not chronometer certified. The watches that used them usually were marked "Precision" or "Super Precision". I suspect replacement (service) dial.
Hopefully a well deserved bonus for the Vet. If they ever have a recruitment crisis they should start issuing these to soldiers again, plenty of young men would be signing up ;-)
Awesome watch. I'd have a hard time selling it if it were me, I'm mean that's something I'd want to pass down. Of course life happens but I'd do whatever I could to keep it.
What a fascinating insight into the realm of the ridiculously over priced Rolex.
I'll bet the owner was gutted to discover that the Dial and Hands are not original to
the timepiece. That fact has had to have had a devastating effect on the valuation.
Although, as you pointed out. It is only worth what anyone is willing to pay for it.
Another great upload.⌚👍
I love watches, but not this realm of madness :)
A Great watch, a great tail, told by a great watch maker, well done major, love the content
Thanks so much Maz! And thanks for taking the time to give this feedback sir! Richard
Interesting that the gentleman from the auctioneers doesn’t appear to have a jewellers loupe with him? Surely he had one?
they have that function build into their eyes.
I as well found that odd.
Very strange watch, firstly why would Rolex change a Tritium 5513 dial with a so called Tritium 5512 dial? and the quote of the the case back markings matching the main case would not matter as they were all purchased in bulk from Rolex in 1972 and then issued throughout the seventies until the 5517, and Rolex would not have replaced the fixed bars if damaged with spring bars as the watch would not stay secure on a Nato strap...Estimate( £30K) ...... Full Spec (£150K) .this is why simply demand a movement Service.
Holy moly what a crazy watch 😍😍
Hi Gustavo... It's pretty special for sure. Thanks for the feedback. Richard
Love your channel keep up videos
It is because of channels like you that I'm going to the watchmaking school in a year and gonna join the club of watchmakers 👌🙏
Have about 10 € to spend on toys, a month, am out of income...my watch is 20 years old, a Chinese quartz digital one, of an unreadable brand... it works fine, I finely got it to display normal time, and no am/pm american crap .. it's a night mare to make it change time from winter to summer time.. bought a black nato strap to go with it..., looking for a digital that only shows time, big, no silly extras no alarms, no useless bling, maybe the date, but nothing more, and please! No am/pm confusion...no the rolex is not for me :)
It's alright, no Casio Frogman, but it's okay.
Phenomenal
Should have watched it first! 😁
If it had original dial and sword hands . . . worth at least £100k
Looked it up... Bonham's Knightsbridge sold one Feb 2022 for £200,250
This is looking questionable...
Count me out.... I like Seiko watches anyway .....
My guess is about 150k
first! thank you for amazing content!!!
Click bate not telling us what it sold for
Hi Richard, HELP PLEASE. I have a silver case pocket watch from 1891, made / assembled by Ridley Hayes Erdington Birmingham, hallmark stamp for Chester. It is over wound to the max. It takes a No 4 winding key and i can`t even get a quarter turn on it to free up the click or ratchet wheel to slowly let down the mainspring. The click looks like a black eagles claw is the only way i can describe it and it`s that sharp and pointed it engages perfectly in the teeth. You also use the key to manually set the time on the dial hands. The Balance and balance hair spring are 2 separate components, removing the balance bridge and the one screw actually leaves the hairspring in place in the base. I wanted to remove this for safe keeping in readiness when i began the strip down but obviously now i can`t. I don`t want to go at this blind because i`m restoring this for my Son so it will become a family heirloom hopefully in years to come. Never seen this movement before, it`s not like any ive seen on your channel or anyone else`s for that matter, yet it is an english lever. I was going to gently loosen the screw that holds down the claw shaped click and see if i can gently lift it out the teeth without damaging anything while holding the key steady to control the unwind, not sure if that would work. Any help you can give me mate would be highly appreciated. Thanks. Glen UK, West Mids, Wolverhampton.
I'd say it's worth at least 20 pounds... at least...
I’d say you know nothing about Rolex.
@@stever7097 lol !
@@stever7097 mediocre steel three-handers. They've spent a lot on marketing though, so fearful little social climbers seem to lust after them quite a bit
@@stever7097 I know they make watches, so there, you are wrong.
@@stever7097 I also know that you don't know what a joke is. 🤣
GBP 200,000+
67 thumbs up
Cheers Steve! Richard
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
With the dial changed I would say £120k