This is great, Tom, thanks! Way too many-mostly A/T skiers, don't have anywhere near the skills & knowledge to keep themselves safe, and I say this as a 16 year veteran ski patroller. A father & son just last weekend, at Park City, got whacked by one, killing the young man (22 years old). His dad had to ski out 40 minutes just for cell service, so clearly, no beacons or other necessary gear. I guess I've been on too many recoveries (as opposed to rescues) to cut people any slack here.
It's surprising to see how the Gopro flatten out the landscape. I like the idea of using the bubble level app on my phone ! Thanks for sharing this Tom, wish you all the best for this new season ✌
Tom - thanks a lot for your videos, which are very inspiring! I grew up skiing downhill, but over the past 15 years, I’ve gotten into trail/ultra running. I think cross country skiing makes for a great form of cross training, especially since running on the roads in the winter can be unappealing or even dangerous. With the massive growth of ultra running, I would suspect there are many people who would love to get into backcountry cross country skiing, but lack the knowledge. Thanks for helping fill that gap!
Great discussion, thanks! (I'll leave the 27 degree skiing with XCD to others, though.) We've got the Catamount trail here in Vermont, which is a different sort of challenge. Old logging roads, mostly, with waterbars or open water streams across narrow trails. Great fun with a three-pin setup!
The Catamount sounds like fun and I'm sure there are plenty of challenging sections, especially if icy. I appreciate the feedback and thanks for tuning in. I hope you have a great ski season.
Hey Tom, Great topic! Interestingly enough, I'm working on a similarly themed video. I had a request earlier this season for a video highlighting the difference between beginner, intermediate, and advanced terrain at groomed xc ski resorts. And, not surprising, it's really hard to show it with the GoPro! I appreciate that you were able to capture the profile of the 27 degree slope and then go stand on top of it providing two totally different visual representations of the same hillside! All that stabilization and wide angle-ness of GoPros definitely flattens out the view making it hard to express the in-person feel of looking downhill. I also find that those same features of the GoPro (that make it such a useful camera!) cause the downhill POV videos to appear slower. At least with those clips I can increase the playback speed by 5-10% to compensate for that effect in the final output. But it's hard to do anything about the flatness. That said, I'll be sure to link this one in the description for mine so that people can see that stark difference between the profile and POV views. Needless to say, I wasn't really able to capture good profile shots of the groomed trails on which I skied as many of them were either on the edge of a steep hill or within the forest. Anyway, thanks again for another great video!
Thanks Jared. Part 2 is already in the que and will be released next Friday (1/6). On 1/13 I'll post a video entitled "Tippy Toe Telemark", an interesting topic as well. Have a great week and I've been enjoying your philosophical posts. :)
@@tomm9850 Thanks, Tom! And sounds like a fun video. I look forward to watching it. Not sure when I'm going to hit the publish button on mine as I may have to work over the next couple of days. But who knows because right now Tahoe is experiencing an epic Rainpocalypse! It's forecasted for about four inches of total rain and I think we're getting there. Ugh. Fortunately our snowpack is still decent so it should absorb some of it. And there's snow in the forecast next week. But the rain is just pouring out of the sky right now.
@@JaredManninen I think we got hit by the same system earlier in the week. We saw some rain and had a bit of a meltdown at the lower elevations. Luckily, it was snow at the higher elevations. I had an amazing ski yesterday at the 8000 foot level and it is snowing heavily as I write this. Thanks for the feedback and have a great New Year.
@@tomm9850 You have a great New Year's, as well! And I hope you don't get the same system we're currently experiencing because it's a ton of rain. Crossing my fingers it's snow in the upper elevations.
Tom, I’m going to be in the Jackson Hole area next week and would like to do some XCD on mellow slopes. What do you recommend that has good access? Flanks of Signal Mountain, Shadow Mountain, or something else? Thanks for your VLOG and Happy New Year🎉
I think you have great timing for your trip. We are supposed to get a bunch of new snow over the next few days. Shadow Mountain is a ton of fun with lots of options to explore. jhnordic.com/trails/shadow-mountain-bridger-teton-national-forest/ Most people ski to the top on the snow covered Forest Service road, but there are many great routes besides the road. Signal Mountain is fun as well, but the best routes can be found by skiing the trail access to the top as opposed to skiing the road. jhnordic.com/trails/signal-mountain/ Be sure to check out the other popular trail options listed on jhnordic.com. I'm sure you will find some great terrain, just be careful and have a great trip.
@@tomm9850thanks for the quick reply and the beta. The thing I’ve found with XCD is that it’s hard to know where to go if your not familiar with the area since, as you point out, the area are not called out on maps. The GTNP area is an exception of course due to the awesome Jhnordic site. There is so much to choose from however! Thanks again and keep up the great work, we appreciate it!
Excellent topic! Thanks for pointing out the GoPro distortion affect. Now the slope. I’ve been trying to decide how to match a XC ski at a groomed park trail that is marked “Most Difficult”. It’s essentially packed snow with potential ice spots. I think 60mm is the widest ski for a groomed track, but gosh, is it good enough over a 49mm to want to add to a quiver? I know you are in wonderland, but if you were forced to go to a resort with other family or friends, how would you tackle it? I’m looking forward to watching part two.
Stick with a narrow ski when skiing at groomed XC resorts. The narrow highly cambered skis are much faster. The turn techniques used for track skiing don't require a wide ski with a turning sidecut or rocker profile. The skis that I use for groomed XC skiing are 42-44-44 @ 190 cm and Julie uses a ski that is 47-43-45 @ 175 cm. That doesn't mean that you can't use a narrow "off trail ski", something less than 70 mm max width in a groomed track for recreational purposes, it just won't be as fast. Most track skiers use a series of quick step turns for corners and a modified snowplow for speed control so there isn't really a need for parallel or telemark turns.
Thanks @@tomm9850, That makes sense for this park which has miles long, but limited width trails. I did use a 'wide' snow plow on its difficult trail. Always looking to do better.
Tom - do you incorporate the BTNF avalanche forecast (or others) into you decision making process on what and when to ski? For example, if the rating is high or extreme you just don't go out? Or do you have zones that are low angle enough that even with highly reactive snowpack, they are not going to produce avalanches and are not exposed to anything above?
Yes, it is part of my daily routine to check the BTNF forecast bridgertetonavalanchecenter.org/ Luckily I have access to many great slopes under 30 degrees and for the most part they are safe as long as I stay out of localized terrain traps. It is one of the best things about XCD skiing on lightweight gear is that it can be challenging and fun at lower angles with a reduced risk. Stay tuned for next weeks part 2 video where I continue this discussion. I also have a long-winded video discussion related to this topic that I posted last year, so check it out. ruclips.net/video/CrgYZN9QLVM/видео.html
This is great, Tom, thanks! Way too many-mostly A/T skiers, don't have anywhere near the skills & knowledge to keep themselves safe, and I say this as a 16 year veteran ski patroller. A father & son just last weekend, at Park City, got whacked by one, killing the young man (22 years old). His dad had to ski out 40 minutes just for cell service, so clearly, no beacons or other necessary gear. I guess I've been on too many recoveries (as opposed to rescues) to cut people any slack here.
Yes, that is a very sad story. Unfortunately, it won't be the last. Thanks for tuning in. Be safe and I hope you are having a great ski season.
It's surprising to see how the Gopro flatten out the landscape. I like the idea of using the bubble level app on my phone ! Thanks for sharing this Tom, wish you all the best for this new season ✌
Happy New Year to you as well. Be sure to tune in next week for Part 2 of this discussion.
Tom - thanks a lot for your videos, which are very inspiring! I grew up skiing downhill, but over the past 15 years, I’ve gotten into trail/ultra running. I think cross country skiing makes for a great form of cross training, especially since running on the roads in the winter can be unappealing or even dangerous. With the massive growth of ultra running, I would suspect there are many people who would love to get into backcountry cross country skiing, but lack the knowledge. Thanks for helping fill that gap!
Thanks William. I'd glad you have found the information useful. Have a great New Year and many happy runs.
Great discussion, thanks! (I'll leave the 27 degree skiing with XCD to others, though.) We've got the Catamount trail here in Vermont, which is a different sort of challenge. Old logging roads, mostly, with waterbars or open water streams across narrow trails. Great fun with a three-pin setup!
The Catamount sounds like fun and I'm sure there are plenty of challenging sections, especially if icy. I appreciate the feedback and thanks for tuning in. I hope you have a great ski season.
@@tomm9850 Thanks. You too!
Thank for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great 2023
Great work!
Thanks, and have a Happy New Year
Hey Tom,
Great topic! Interestingly enough, I'm working on a similarly themed video. I had a request earlier this season for a video highlighting the difference between beginner, intermediate, and advanced terrain at groomed xc ski resorts. And, not surprising, it's really hard to show it with the GoPro!
I appreciate that you were able to capture the profile of the 27 degree slope and then go stand on top of it providing two totally different visual representations of the same hillside! All that stabilization and wide angle-ness of GoPros definitely flattens out the view making it hard to express the in-person feel of looking downhill. I also find that those same features of the GoPro (that make it such a useful camera!) cause the downhill POV videos to appear slower. At least with those clips I can increase the playback speed by 5-10% to compensate for that effect in the final output. But it's hard to do anything about the flatness.
That said, I'll be sure to link this one in the description for mine so that people can see that stark difference between the profile and POV views. Needless to say, I wasn't really able to capture good profile shots of the groomed trails on which I skied as many of them were either on the edge of a steep hill or within the forest.
Anyway, thanks again for another great video!
Thanks Jared. Part 2 is already in the que and will be released next Friday (1/6). On 1/13 I'll post a video entitled "Tippy Toe Telemark", an interesting topic as well. Have a great week and I've been enjoying your philosophical posts. :)
@@tomm9850 Thanks, Tom! And sounds like a fun video. I look forward to watching it.
Not sure when I'm going to hit the publish button on mine as I may have to work over the next couple of days. But who knows because right now Tahoe is experiencing an epic Rainpocalypse! It's forecasted for about four inches of total rain and I think we're getting there. Ugh. Fortunately our snowpack is still decent so it should absorb some of it. And there's snow in the forecast next week. But the rain is just pouring out of the sky right now.
@@JaredManninen I think we got hit by the same system earlier in the week. We saw some rain and had a bit of a meltdown at the lower elevations. Luckily, it was snow at the higher elevations. I had an amazing ski yesterday at the 8000 foot level and it is snowing heavily as I write this. Thanks for the feedback and have a great New Year.
@@tomm9850 You have a great New Year's, as well! And I hope you don't get the same system we're currently experiencing because it's a ton of rain. Crossing my fingers it's snow in the upper elevations.
Tom, I’m going to be in the Jackson Hole area next week and would like to do some XCD on mellow slopes. What do you recommend that has good access? Flanks of Signal Mountain, Shadow Mountain, or something else? Thanks for your VLOG and Happy New Year🎉
I think you have great timing for your trip. We are supposed to get a bunch of new snow over the next few days. Shadow Mountain is a ton of fun with lots of options to explore. jhnordic.com/trails/shadow-mountain-bridger-teton-national-forest/ Most people ski to the top on the snow covered Forest Service road, but there are many great routes besides the road. Signal Mountain is fun as well, but the best routes can be found by skiing the trail access to the top as opposed to skiing the road. jhnordic.com/trails/signal-mountain/ Be sure to check out the other popular trail options listed on jhnordic.com. I'm sure you will find some great terrain, just be careful and have a great trip.
@@tomm9850thanks for the quick reply and the beta. The thing I’ve found with XCD is that it’s hard to know where to go if your not familiar with the area since, as you point out, the area are not called out on maps. The GTNP area is an exception of course due to the awesome Jhnordic site. There is so much to choose from however! Thanks again and keep up the great work, we appreciate it!
Excellent topic! Thanks for pointing out the GoPro distortion affect. Now the slope. I’ve been trying to decide how to match a XC ski at a groomed park trail that is marked “Most Difficult”. It’s essentially packed snow with potential ice spots. I think 60mm is the widest ski for a groomed track, but gosh, is it good enough over a 49mm to want to add to a quiver? I know you are in wonderland, but if you were forced to go to a resort with other family or friends, how would you tackle it? I’m looking forward to watching part two.
Stick with a narrow ski when skiing at groomed XC resorts. The narrow highly cambered skis are much faster. The turn techniques used for track skiing don't require a wide ski with a turning sidecut or rocker profile. The skis that I use for groomed XC skiing are 42-44-44 @ 190 cm and Julie uses a ski that is 47-43-45 @ 175 cm. That doesn't mean that you can't use a narrow "off trail ski", something less than 70 mm max width in a groomed track for recreational purposes, it just won't be as fast. Most track skiers use a series of quick step turns for corners and a modified snowplow for speed control so there isn't really a need for parallel or telemark turns.
Thanks @@tomm9850, That makes sense for this park which has miles long, but limited width trails. I did use a 'wide' snow plow on its difficult trail. Always looking to do better.
Tom - do you incorporate the BTNF avalanche forecast (or others) into you decision making process on what and when to ski? For example, if the rating is high or extreme you just don't go out? Or do you have zones that are low angle enough that even with highly reactive snowpack, they are not going to produce avalanches and are not exposed to anything above?
Yes, it is part of my daily routine to check the BTNF forecast bridgertetonavalanchecenter.org/ Luckily I have access to many great slopes under 30 degrees and for the most part they are safe as long as I stay out of localized terrain traps. It is one of the best things about XCD skiing on lightweight gear is that it can be challenging and fun at lower angles with a reduced risk. Stay tuned for next weeks part 2 video where I continue this discussion. I also have a long-winded video discussion related to this topic that I posted last year, so check it out. ruclips.net/video/CrgYZN9QLVM/видео.html
The “measure” app on iPhones does the angle finding for free
Thanks for posting this info. Have a great New Year.
@@tomm9850 thanks man, you too! Hope to see you on the slopes! ⛷️