Well said Paul. Since there are many kinds of UPS designs, and some are bad for analogue power supply transformers, I think Yamaha forbade all UPS usage so they don't have to field endless questions about what is good and bad for their equipment.
Not compatible with the encabulators within the unit, too much side fumbling with the pana-metric fam, causing unwanted fluxes that may burn out the matching transformer, possible explosion. DO NOT ATTEMPT unless your a well qualified service engineer with depleniation training and certification with the board!
Hi Paul. My UPS has two rows of outlets. One row is battery backup, which is used for computer and related components, the other row I use for stereo components. Although not a power regenerator like your fancy unit, It does seem to clean up and insulate the stereo from the old house grid. Moreover, during outages, I use it to power efficient lamps and keep phones and blue tooth speakers charged to tide us over until power is restored.
Most UPS's will have a filtered and surge protected Outlets on one side and battery backup on the other that way you don't waste that precious battery power running that ginormous laser printer during a power outage
Nope, unless the UPS has surge protection circuitry in it which it could have regardless of whether it is a clean output sine wave otherwise, it is still just a voltage multiplier and inverter, so a surge would get through to the equipment for a minimum of whatever the frequency is of the regulation feedback sampling.
Liner power supplies do not react well to "stepped sine waves" and in some cases, square waves. Most audio products use linear power supplies. Most modern TVs and CD players and computers use a switching supply are are not affected by these lousy AC sources. A few UPS models have a pure sine wave output, but they cost more. For a short period there were computer power supplies that required a pure sine wave. The had a designation of PFC which makes use of the power factor for more efficient operation.
Most UPS system sold to the general public are NOT true sine wave. Cyber Power offers both stepped sine wave as well as true sine wave supplies. American Power Conversion (APC) also sells stepped wave units and also offers true sine wave UPS products. The true sine wave products cost more.
Consumer UPSs use one transformer for step up OR step down, and use a transfer switch to quickly move the load from line power to the inverter when power fails. Double conversion UPSs convert incoming power to DC, and have both batteries and an inverter attached to the DC bus. The inverter is producing the power for the load 100% of the time, and there is no transfer switch delay when power fails. Since the inverter runs the load under normal conditions, the vast majority of double conversion UPSs are pure sine wave. There are also pure sine wave UPSs that aren't double conversion, and those would probably work fine too. So yeah, Paul probably should have just said "pure sine wave", but he wasn't missing the mark when talking about dual conversion units.
Paul S ... What you are describing is the TRUE definition for a UPS or uninterruptible power supply. These are much more expensive that the ones that use a switch to apply battery power to the system. With these systems the batteries are ALWAYS supplying the power to the system and the AC input just charges the batteries. Most consumer units are actually "Standby Power Sources", including the consumer true sine wave units.
I've worked in Bangalore. Power cuts are frequent and can be long. UPS is a must... Even though most buildings have standby generators that kick in quite quickly.
Switching mode power supplies which are used in most consumer electronics such as receivers, TV's, computers, led lightbulbs and so on do not care about the wave shape at all because the input gets rectified first. Transformers and inductive electric motors may generate a hum on simulated sinewave and run a bit rough, but getting damaged is very unlikely. A regenerator does the same exact thing as an online pure sinewave UPS, it rectifies the input to DC and converts to a pure sinewave again. So those power plants are just online UPS's minus the battery backup.
I was thinking much the same, though not as expertly as you set out. And at any rate, doesn't the power supply of any decent amp/receiver smooth out the crap in switching power supplies - smoothing caps etc?
You are better educated in this than most. One thing I do know is that the early UPS using switching DC to DC converters were capable of burning motors and transformers with their pure square wave . Shortly the UPS designers added a delay between the negative going and positive going square waves, called it anything from stepped wave to quasi sine, but our problems with burnt out equipment ceased.
@@johnhodgson5313 that's mostly because Motors are designed around the AC system and the alternating of the waveform and really do not like square waves thus It's a really good way to kill them. I can't say square waves are gone but most manufacturers have moved on to some sort of approximation For Better or Worse
Thanks for replying. Right you are, and a lot of power transformers that are designed for 50 - 60 Hz don't like the square waves either. 20+ years ago it was explained to me why the time delay between 1/2 cycles made it more tolerable for the motors and transformers, but that piece of information died in my head because I never had to use it. For better or worse, the compromise between power efficiency (battery run time), clean power and economics, there is no perfect UPS
Great video ! ...Question : Is it possible to only use UPS on a high End Gear when it's on Standby Position ? Meaning , To protect that Gear from Mais Power OFF and ON again in a short time situation ... Not in case to use that gear for listening Thanks.
It's not all that funny, that any piece of equipment is meant for a specific input power range and type, then can do whatever it is meant to do to get the desired output. They could qualify each UPS on a case by case basis but why would they if there is not enough perceived consumer demand? That testing costs money while disclaiming warranty saves money.
PC's, and other similar electronics, use switching power supplies, which are not at all particular about the input power. That may not be the case for good quality audio gear. Not sure why you would want to use a UPS on a home audio system in any case. On the other hand, I highly recommend using a Balanced Power Isolation Transformer for better quality AV systems. I have a Furman IT-1210 to power my electronic music studio (except the PC since there is no analog audio I/O) and a similar unit from Equi=Tech in my home theater AV cabinet.
@@josephlai99 No, a balanced power isolation transformer is not a substitute for a UPS. You would only need a UPS on a PC in any case, not the rest of the studio equipment. Since the PC is not connected through the BPIT you could certainly use a UPS on that device only.
It's more down to filtration on the output from the ups you can use a triad filtration with safety caps, two 0.47 one on live one on neutral going to Earth, a 0.1 going across live and neutral, and ideally two scotchy diode opposing each other in parallel
Man, I'm amazed at how much I DIDN'T know about electronics!!! Thank you for the knowledge imparted AND thanks to the person who posed the question... because I learned from both!
Paul - since your products convert AC to DC and back to AC, it'd be trivial to add lithium cells to the DC portion and turn it into a UPS. Use high output (low internal resistance) cells, so you can get away with one bank in series. It'll provide a few minutes of runtime for those of us in areas with lots of short power "blips".
If by trivial you mean an extra expense that most don't want to pay, and an early failure point since a good piece of gear should last decades while the batteries won't last 10 years, then sure, make things more expensive, complex, and failure prone for the 1% of the market that really needs it - or just let them buy an UPS which makes far more sense.
I was watching this video for a different reason. USB noise is with many computers an obvious issue - I have noticed that when running a laptop, the thing is silent when it comes to USB noise. Sadly, as I've upgraded to an AiO PC (the grunt of a desktop, but more luggable than one) battery isn't an option. Just wondering if a UPS may help
Simply use old fashion current stabilisation unit based on the flat plate capacitor on Ups and long enough cable between it and equipment as it produces hum. While generally it's advised to use a battery DC source with independent ins & outs in equipment to avoid or lower hum from AC/DC convertor it simple isn't so with UPS DC/AC output conversion to source which again does AC/DC conversion and besides the 40 to 60% energy gets lost in the process (AC/DC UPS in, DC/AC UPS out & then again AC/DC at source).
There are three different types of UPS's there's the line interactive which is is essentially a battery charger charging a battery and when power goes out switches over to an inverter internally the problem with those is they tend to be anywhere from Square wave, stepped square wave two stepped approximation sine wave. The more expensive ones will use a true sine wave output, and the really expensive ones are called online where they essentially have a power supply that brings AC to a DC buss and charges the battery and runs the the inverter all the time and in that case it's usually always a true sine wave inverter. Most of the problem is that companies try to use the cheaper way of doing it in there cheaper line of products and don't clearly State this the consumer and a lot of audio visual equipment does not like non true sine wave and will usually have a pretty annoying Buzz the better well-designed products will be able to filter that out unless you have a really cheap inverter. I have also heard rumors that using one or the other will kill something and I'm sure in really cheap instances that is true. There's also a efficiency loss which can be quite a wide margin.
I have been acquiring APC UPS for a while now it started with a 550 1 model before they went USB I am happy to say that well they don't produce a true sine wave on there cheaper models they have done a pretty good job on any of the newer stuff in the last 10 years that most things will be happy apart from some electric motors and some audio stuff. I also acquired a big monster I think 1500 which is a pure sine wave that I have thankfully not had to test with my audio equipment during a power outage, I was running my entire live sound rig amps, mixer and all off of it because I wasn't sure if I was going to have any power issues running off of a generator thankfully day befor the event I found out that we had the big poppa of major awesome giant roll behind generators with very good regulation ( and a very Hefty and thankfully donated rental fee $$$$$$ ). I also have two of their older models and they are more of a modified Square wave stepped approximation. I'm not quite an audiophile but I do seriously care about audio and want it to be reproduced as close to original as possible and practicable. I took this literally to the point when I was doing sound for a band with "their equipment" and managed to track down a failing switch mode power supply in one of their digital amps for moniters, I was able to somewhat isolated it to not pull my hair out and get through the event.
My guess is reactive power factor. The supply they're using might be super sensitive to poor power factor and cheap UPSs don't always have power correction.
I will agree that Edison once he started getting into marketing was not very nice and invented the electric chair as a way to discredit Nikola Tesla and his AC generation system. In other words getting Westinghouseed as Westinghouse bought Nikola Tesla's patents
@@JorgeGomez-bt9lt Somewhat. Surge protectors protect against in-rush power surges but not against voltage drops. The production company I work for uses them all the time when we work off of generators. It just ensure that everything stays running and happy.
While double conversion UPSs usually have pure sine wave output (since a double conversion UPS is more expensive, there is not much point in saving a little bit of money with square wave or "modified sine"), line interactive UPSs can also have pure sine output. AC motors do not like the "modified sine" - which is essentially a pulse (I have not seen a UPS produce a "stepped sine" with more than 1-2 steps) - and would not start to spin (tested on an AC fan - if it was spinning then it continued to spin) and 50Hz transformers buzz, but the device usually works. Equipment with switching power supplies, especially older or lower powered ones with no PFC should work OK on square waves, since they have a rectifier on the mains input anyway. I think the easiest way to see if a UPS has pure sine output (without an oscilloscope or the spec sheet) would be to connect an AC motor to it and see if it starts spinning and does not produce more audible noise compared to being plugged into the mains.
does square wave/modified stepped sine wave is okay for device like speaker or powered active speaker? i still dont know exactly equipment with switching power supply is
@@bolulembut1132 Depends on the power supply of the device. However, if the device is rated for a wide voltage range (100-240V) and does not have a voltage selection switch, it most likely has a switching power supply and would most likely work OK on a cheaper UPS. Older equipment usually has 50Hz transformers - they do not particularly like non-sine power. Modern PC power supplies have active PFC and may have problems running on such an UPS though.
@@Pentium100MHz i planning to buy those kind stepped sine wave /kine interactive ups for my powered monitor speaker (yamaha hs5) , i cant find any voltage range in manual boom nor speaker itself..i searched on google they dont come with switchable power supply which need voltage converter if/when used with voltage outside my country.. is it still not suitable to use stepped sine wave for those speaker?
@@bolulembut1132 It may have a 50/60Hz transformer, you should try to get a pure sine UPS. 50Hz transformers can work on a "modified sine", but they buzz and it may cause some damage if you use it for a long time like that. Th only way to be sure is to find a service manual for it or a picture of such speaker disassembled.
@@Pentium100MHz well thats sad , i always have anxiety when i do recording because i have concerned about frequent power surge , blackout and overvoltage , i was planning to get surge protector but it seems wont work here due my small apartment is ungrounded. a pure sine wave ups still too expensive for me so in my condition it is best to leave it plug straight into wall outlet rather than plug into that stepped sine wave ups? i just want to make sure i dont choose the wrong path
True Online MAY slightly better but very much more expensive. The difference in the output is only SLIGHT, if any at all depending on the model. True Online units are intended for Mission Critical uses, like hospitals running ventilators or other equipment that can't withstand even the slightest interruption of power, as there's no switchover time. Audio equipment DOESN'T need that level of response, the capacitors in the power supplies are designed to ride out slight power fluctuations, even without a UPS at all. I've run Line interactive UPS on my >$20K system(s) for years without problems.
Hi Paul I’ve never seen that one myself or any equipment but if it’s there it’s there for a reason anyway love the video it’s cold and horrible wet here in England hope it’s a bit warmer where you are by the way I think I’m 1st to comment bye for now🇬🇧
@@ianyates7742 Wow! How about not being a bum? If you aren't semi-literate and actually write in such a childish way merely to be "cool", quit adding "GB" as a postscript. It insults your country.
AntPDC Hi there I just wish you lived near me I’ll show you-how illiterate I am with my fist at the end of your nose. Mind your own goddamn business because if all you can do is pick fault with all the people you’re missing the point of this RUclips channel it’s about hi-fi not about whom or who can spell better than anybody else are use punctuation better than anybody else
Generally, APC is of very good quality. However a) you have to make sure that the max load of the UPS should be 20-25% bigger than that of the equipment connected to it. As far as I know, APC always provides a Wattage measurement of the maximum load in the specs. For example the APC BR1500GI is a 1500VA (or 865W UPS). Meaning it has a 0.57 power factor. All you have to do now, is add the wattage of the audio equipment connected to it. Look at the back panel of each device. The sum has to be 20-25% less than that of the UPS, in question. In the example above, the sum shouldn't be more than roughly say 700-650W, respectively. b) Also it has to provide your amplifier (and other audio devices) with a pure sine wave output. Especially if the transformer of your amp, is a toroidal (linear) one. Linear transformers don't work particularly well with a ups that provides a modified (or stepped as Paul states in 3:32) sine waveform. Check out this: www.samlexamerica.com/support/documents/13005-0614_AdvantagesofPureOverModifiedSineWaveInverters.pdf
Most of APC stuff is pretty good however what you can buy in stores is generally of an approximation, however I have had fairly decent experience with most of their newer stuff and I can say that it runs stuff pretty darn well it has exceeded most of my inverters and I have yet to get one of those fancy true sine wave inverters. I have also used a minute man and that thing was brand-new about 5 years ago and did not run very efficiently so I suspected it was not as well designed.
@@imark7777777 Idk mate, but pure sine ones, can be found as easily with almost same prices too. Anyway, I was just explaining to scottyo64 what he should check, for the one he already has.
@@Yiannis2112 so cheap ups like line interactive ups which usually designed for office PC could probably not good for powered speaker? i planning to get those kind ups for my powered monitor speaker
Nothing wrong with UPS as long as it is on-line with 2 toroids that completely transforming all the incoming electricity and has 10x reserve of current consumption. I like PS audio, but sorry, any decent consumer on-line UPS is worse only in terms of noisy annoying fans. That's all :3
What ..? A $500 ups feeding a $26,000 power regenerator...? If there’s a power outage and your that desperate to finish Brahm’s 5th ... hook your system up to a nice quiet little Honda 5 Kva petrol generator ... perfect sine wave and much lower source impedance than either an ups or a P20..! But don’t forget to put the Honda outside !! And use thick cables !!
If you're referring to the Honda generator that I think you're referring to they have a tendency of using a lot of inverter set ups on the output to make them lighter and more efficient however they were generally of a higher quality and nearly always a sine wave
Some cheap UPS's output a simple square wave which is at 170 volts. So an audio amplifier with a traditional unregulated power supply will now produce considerably more DC rail voltage. That could easily stress the output transistors and other components as well. So there is some validity to this warning. Anything with a switch mode power supply like a TV or commodity DVD player could care less. They run fine on highly distorted AC power. And as just about all computers use switch mode power supplies, the cheap UPS systems are fine for that purpose.
The power going out in the house is a pretty serious issue, but I'll be damned if it'll stop me in the middle of listening to Bach (or whatever you listen to). I understand wanting to protect audio gear but surge protectors are generally sufficient.
Well said Paul. Since there are many kinds of UPS designs, and some are bad for analogue power supply transformers, I think Yamaha forbade all UPS usage so they don't have to field endless questions about what is good and bad for their equipment.
Yes. My receiver is an Yamaha Receiver...
Paul, that was an awesome answer!!!
Thank you.
But can I use FedEx with my surround?
Paul will send you a Sprout by UPS and the speakers by FedEx.. Sounds good 😀😀😀
Not compatible with the encabulators within the unit, too much side fumbling with the pana-metric fam, causing unwanted fluxes that may burn out the matching transformer, possible explosion. DO NOT ATTEMPT unless your a well qualified service engineer with depleniation training and certification with the board!
so no to non union workplaces lol
Hi Paul. My UPS has two rows of outlets. One row is battery backup, which is used for computer and related components, the other row I use for stereo components. Although not a power regenerator like your fancy unit, It does seem to clean up and insulate the stereo from the old house grid. Moreover, during outages, I use it to power efficient lamps and keep phones and blue tooth speakers charged to tide us over until power is restored.
Most UPS's will have a filtered and surge protected Outlets on one side and battery backup on the other that way you don't waste that precious battery power running that ginormous laser printer during a power outage
With a clean output sine wave, a UPS makes an unbeatable surge protector!
Nope, unless the UPS has surge protection circuitry in it which it could have regardless of whether it is a clean output sine wave otherwise, it is still just a voltage multiplier and inverter, so a surge would get through to the equipment for a minimum of whatever the frequency is of the regulation feedback sampling.
Thanks a lot for answering the question,.. George
Liner power supplies do not react well to "stepped sine waves" and in some cases, square waves. Most audio products use linear power supplies. Most modern TVs and CD players and computers use a switching supply are are not affected by these lousy AC sources.
A few UPS models have a pure sine wave output, but they cost more. For a short period there were computer power supplies that required a pure sine wave. The had a designation of PFC which makes use of the power factor for more efficient operation.
As Paul stated in the video, most (but not all) double conversion UPSs are pure sine wave
Most UPS system sold to the general public are NOT true sine wave. Cyber Power offers both stepped sine wave as well as true sine wave supplies. American Power Conversion (APC) also sells stepped wave units and also offers true sine wave UPS products. The true sine wave products cost more.
Consumer UPSs use one transformer for step up OR step down, and use a transfer switch to quickly move the load from line power to the inverter when power fails. Double conversion UPSs convert incoming power to DC, and have both batteries and an inverter attached to the DC bus. The inverter is producing the power for the load 100% of the time, and there is no transfer switch delay when power fails.
Since the inverter runs the load under normal conditions, the vast majority of double conversion UPSs are pure sine wave. There are also pure sine wave UPSs that aren't double conversion, and those would probably work fine too. So yeah, Paul probably should have just said "pure sine wave", but he wasn't missing the mark when talking about dual conversion units.
Paul S ... What you are describing is the TRUE definition for a UPS or uninterruptible power supply.
These are much more expensive that the ones that use a switch to apply battery power to the system.
With these systems the batteries are ALWAYS supplying the power to the system and the AC input just charges the batteries. Most consumer units are actually "Standby Power Sources", including the consumer true sine wave units.
@@swindeis stepped sinewave or line interactive ups will damaging speaker or active speaker?
I've worked in Bangalore. Power cuts are frequent and can be long. UPS is a must... Even though most buildings have standby generators that kick in quite quickly.
Exactly what I was going to say. The fat capacitor at the front of an SMPS mops up any deficiency in the waveform.
Not that bad at my area in bangalore, but did not want to connect the receiver on UPS...
Switching mode power supplies which are used in most consumer electronics such as receivers, TV's, computers, led lightbulbs and so on do not care about the wave shape at all because the input gets rectified first. Transformers and inductive electric motors may generate a hum on simulated sinewave and run a bit rough, but getting damaged is very unlikely. A regenerator does the same exact thing as an online pure sinewave UPS, it rectifies the input to DC and converts to a pure sinewave again. So those power plants are just online UPS's minus the battery backup.
I was thinking much the same, though not as expertly as you set out. And at any rate, doesn't the power supply of any decent amp/receiver smooth out the crap in switching power supplies - smoothing caps etc?
You are better educated in this than most. One thing I do know is that the early UPS using switching DC to DC converters were capable of burning motors and transformers with their pure square wave . Shortly the UPS designers added a delay between the negative going and positive going square waves, called it anything from stepped wave to quasi sine, but our problems with burnt out equipment ceased.
@@johnhodgson5313 that's mostly because Motors are designed around the AC system and the alternating of the waveform and really do not like square waves thus It's a really good way to kill them. I can't say square waves are gone but most manufacturers have moved on to some sort of approximation For Better or Worse
Thanks for replying. Right you are, and a lot of power transformers that are designed for 50 - 60 Hz don't like the square waves either. 20+ years ago it was explained to me why the time delay between 1/2 cycles made it more tolerable for the motors and transformers, but that piece of information died in my head because I never had to use it. For better or worse, the compromise between power efficiency (battery run time), clean power and economics, there is no perfect UPS
FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!
Great video ! ...Question : Is it possible to only use UPS on a high End Gear when it's on Standby Position ? Meaning , To protect that Gear from Mais Power OFF and ON again in a short time situation ... Not in case to use that gear for listening Thanks.
Funny, how a choppy sine wave is bad news for audio gear, but isn't a digital amplifier doing basically the same thing?
It's not all that funny, that any piece of equipment is meant for a specific input power range and type, then can do whatever it is meant to do to get the desired output. They could qualify each UPS on a case by case basis but why would they if there is not enough perceived consumer demand? That testing costs money while disclaiming warranty saves money.
PC's, and other similar electronics, use switching power supplies, which are not at all particular about the input power. That may not be the case for good quality audio gear. Not sure why you would want to use a UPS on a home audio system in any case. On the other hand, I highly recommend using a Balanced Power Isolation Transformer for better quality AV systems. I have a Furman IT-1210 to power my electronic music studio (except the PC since there is no analog audio I/O) and a similar unit from Equi=Tech in my home theater AV cabinet.
balanced power isolation transformer can handle sudden power cut and power resume? say 1second or even less than 1second.... ?
@@josephlai99 No, a balanced power isolation transformer is not a substitute for a UPS. You would only need a UPS on a PC in any case, not the rest of the studio equipment. Since the PC is not connected through the BPIT you could certainly use a UPS on that device only.
Free DVD?! What about ISO-Image for download?
Heh, yeah they should just put it up on The Pirate Bay.
It's more down to filtration on the output from the ups you can use a triad filtration with safety caps, two 0.47 one on live one on neutral going to Earth, a 0.1 going across live and neutral, and ideally two scotchy diode opposing each other in parallel
Man, I'm amazed at how much I DIDN'T know about electronics!!! Thank you for the knowledge imparted AND thanks to the person who posed the question... because I learned from both!
Thank you
Paul - since your products convert AC to DC and back to AC, it'd be trivial to add lithium cells to the DC portion and turn it into a UPS. Use high output (low internal resistance) cells, so you can get away with one bank in series. It'll provide a few minutes of runtime for those of us in areas with lots of short power "blips".
If by trivial you mean an extra expense that most don't want to pay, and an early failure point since a good piece of gear should last decades while the batteries won't last 10 years, then sure, make things more expensive, complex, and failure prone for the 1% of the market that really needs it - or just let them buy an UPS which makes far more sense.
I was watching this video for a different reason. USB noise is with many computers an obvious issue - I have noticed that when running a laptop, the thing is silent when it comes to USB noise.
Sadly, as I've upgraded to an AiO PC (the grunt of a desktop, but more luggable than one) battery isn't an option.
Just wondering if a UPS may help
Simply use old fashion current stabilisation unit based on the flat plate capacitor on Ups and long enough cable between it and equipment as it produces hum. While generally it's advised to use a battery DC source with independent ins & outs in equipment to avoid or lower hum from AC/DC convertor it simple isn't so with UPS DC/AC output conversion to source which again does AC/DC conversion and besides the 40 to 60% energy gets lost in the process (AC/DC UPS in, DC/AC UPS out & then again AC/DC at source).
There are three different types of UPS's there's the line interactive which is is essentially a battery charger charging a battery and when power goes out switches over to an inverter internally the problem with those is they tend to be anywhere from Square wave, stepped square wave two stepped approximation sine wave. The more expensive ones will use a true sine wave output, and the really expensive ones are called online where they essentially have a power supply that brings AC to a DC buss and charges the battery and runs the the inverter all the time and in that case it's usually always a true sine wave inverter.
Most of the problem is that companies try to use the cheaper way of doing it in there cheaper line of products and don't clearly State this the consumer and a lot of audio visual equipment does not like non true sine wave and will usually have a pretty annoying Buzz the better well-designed products will be able to filter that out unless you have a really cheap inverter. I have also heard rumors that using one or the other will kill something and I'm sure in really cheap instances that is true. There's also a efficiency loss which can be quite a wide margin.
I have been acquiring APC UPS for a while now it started with a 550 1 model before they went USB I am happy to say that well they don't produce a true sine wave on there cheaper models they have done a pretty good job on any of the newer stuff in the last 10 years that most things will be happy apart from some electric motors and some audio stuff. I also acquired a big monster I think 1500 which is a pure sine wave that I have thankfully not had to test with my audio equipment during a power outage, I was running my entire live sound rig amps, mixer and all off of it because I wasn't sure if I was going to have any power issues running off of a generator thankfully day befor the event I found out that we had the big poppa of major awesome giant roll behind generators with very good regulation ( and a very Hefty and thankfully donated rental fee $$$$$$ ). I also have two of their older models and they are more of a modified Square wave stepped approximation.
I'm not quite an audiophile but I do seriously care about audio and want it to be reproduced as close to original as possible and practicable. I took this literally to the point when I was doing sound for a band with "their equipment" and managed to track down a failing switch mode power supply in one of their digital amps for moniters, I was able to somewhat isolated it to not pull my hair out and get through the event.
My suspicion is that the power supply capacitors are on the cheap side and can't take absorbing the harmonics of a stepped square
I was thinking to get one (sinwave) for my projector to save the lamp if power shut down.
That's a really good and smart thing to do. If the power glitches or fails you could be in for a big expense replacing the damaged bulb.
I've done this on my $4K JVC Projector for years and it's never had a problem. Totally recommend this.
My guess is reactive power factor. The supply they're using might be super sensitive to poor power factor and cheap UPSs don't always have power correction.
Edison was not a very nice dude he invented the electric chair using AC current and Edison was the father of DC current.
I will agree that Edison once he started getting into marketing was not very nice and invented the electric chair as a way to discredit Nikola Tesla and his AC generation system. In other words getting Westinghouseed as Westinghouse bought Nikola Tesla's patents
What would be the reason to use a ups on a receiver
Jorge Gomez i do it to protect against brownouts and low voltage situations caused by storms. All my equipment is protected this way
@@MrSoulPotato So pretty much as a surge protector not really as a UPS..
@@JorgeGomez-bt9lt Somewhat. Surge protectors protect against in-rush power surges but not against voltage drops. The production company I work for uses them all the time when we work off of generators. It just ensure that everything stays running and happy.
While double conversion UPSs usually have pure sine wave output (since a double conversion UPS is more expensive, there is not much point in saving a little bit of money with square wave or "modified sine"), line interactive UPSs can also have pure sine output.
AC motors do not like the "modified sine" - which is essentially a pulse (I have not seen a UPS produce a "stepped sine" with more than 1-2 steps) - and would not start to spin (tested on an AC fan - if it was spinning then it continued to spin) and 50Hz transformers buzz, but the device usually works.
Equipment with switching power supplies, especially older or lower powered ones with no PFC should work OK on square waves, since they have a rectifier on the mains input anyway.
I think the easiest way to see if a UPS has pure sine output (without an oscilloscope or the spec sheet) would be to connect an AC motor to it and see if it starts spinning and does not produce more audible noise compared to being plugged into the mains.
does square wave/modified stepped sine wave is okay for device like speaker or powered active speaker?
i still dont know exactly equipment with switching power supply is
@@bolulembut1132 Depends on the power supply of the device.
However, if the device is rated for a wide voltage range (100-240V) and does not have a voltage selection switch, it most likely has a switching power supply and would most likely work OK on a cheaper UPS.
Older equipment usually has 50Hz transformers - they do not particularly like non-sine power.
Modern PC power supplies have active PFC and may have problems running on such an UPS though.
@@Pentium100MHz i planning to buy those kind stepped sine wave /kine interactive ups for my powered monitor speaker (yamaha hs5) , i cant find any voltage range in manual boom nor speaker itself..i searched on google they dont come with switchable power supply which need voltage converter if/when used with voltage outside my country.. is it still not suitable to use stepped sine wave for those speaker?
@@bolulembut1132 It may have a 50/60Hz transformer, you should try to get a pure sine UPS. 50Hz transformers can work on a "modified sine", but they buzz and it may cause some damage if you use it for a long time like that.
Th only way to be sure is to find a service manual for it or a picture of such speaker disassembled.
@@Pentium100MHz well thats sad , i always have anxiety when i do recording because i have concerned about frequent power surge , blackout and overvoltage , i was planning to get surge protector but it seems wont work here due my small apartment is ungrounded.
a pure sine wave ups still too expensive for me
so in my condition it is best to leave it plug straight into wall outlet rather than plug into that stepped sine wave ups? i just want to make sure i dont choose the wrong path
Love the power conditioner
In UPS too there are different types - for audio use a "True Online UPS", def not a line interactive UPS
astralboy79 ~ ?
True Online MAY slightly better but very much more expensive. The difference in the output is only SLIGHT, if any at all depending on the model. True Online units are intended for Mission Critical uses, like hospitals running ventilators or other equipment that can't withstand even the slightest interruption of power, as there's no switchover time. Audio equipment DOESN'T need that level of response, the capacitors in the power supplies are designed to ride out slight power fluctuations, even without a UPS at all. I've run Line interactive UPS on my >$20K system(s) for years without problems.
Hi Paul I’ve never seen that one myself or any equipment but if it’s there it’s there for a reason anyway love the video it’s cold and horrible wet here in England hope it’s a bit warmer where you are by the way I think I’m 1st to comment bye for now🇬🇧
Does the current wet weather in England short-circuit all punctuation of any kind, other than the apostrophe? ;)
AntPDC there’s always one and it’s you I think you’re better than everybody else if you go away
@@ianyates7742 Wow! How about not being a bum? If you aren't semi-literate and actually write in such a childish way merely to be "cool", quit adding "GB" as a postscript. It insults your country.
AntPDC Hi there I just wish you lived near me I’ll show you-how illiterate I am with my fist at the end of your nose. Mind your own goddamn business because if all you can do is pick fault with all the people you’re missing the point of this RUclips channel it’s about hi-fi not about whom or who can spell better than anybody else are use punctuation better than anybody else
Is an APC ups 1500 a decent one? I guess it's a "smart" ups, weighs a ton
Generally, APC is of very good quality. However a) you have to make sure that the max load of the UPS should be 20-25% bigger than that of the equipment connected to it. As far as I know, APC always provides a Wattage measurement of the maximum load in the specs. For example the APC BR1500GI is a 1500VA (or 865W UPS). Meaning it has a 0.57 power factor. All you have to do now, is add the wattage of the audio equipment connected to it. Look at the back panel of each device. The sum has to be 20-25% less than that of the UPS, in question. In the example above, the sum shouldn't be more than roughly say 700-650W, respectively.
b) Also it has to provide your amplifier (and other audio devices) with a pure sine wave output. Especially if the transformer of your amp, is a toroidal (linear) one. Linear transformers don't work particularly well with a ups that provides a modified (or stepped as Paul states in 3:32) sine waveform. Check out this:
www.samlexamerica.com/support/documents/13005-0614_AdvantagesofPureOverModifiedSineWaveInverters.pdf
Most of APC stuff is pretty good however what you can buy in stores is generally of an approximation, however I have had fairly decent experience with most of their newer stuff and I can say that it runs stuff pretty darn well it has exceeded most of my inverters and I have yet to get one of those fancy true sine wave inverters. I have also used a minute man and that thing was brand-new about 5 years ago and did not run very efficiently so I suspected it was not as well designed.
@@imark7777777 Idk mate, but pure sine ones, can be found as easily with almost same prices too. Anyway, I was just explaining to scottyo64 what he should check, for the one he already has.
@@Yiannis2112 so cheap ups like line interactive ups which usually designed for office PC could probably not good for powered speaker?
i planning to get those kind ups for my powered monitor speaker
Nothing wrong with UPS as long as it is on-line with 2 toroids that completely transforming all the incoming electricity and has 10x reserve of current consumption.
I like PS audio, but sorry, any decent consumer on-line UPS is worse only in terms of noisy annoying fans.
That's all :3
Here is the video he mentions..
ruclips.net/video/ZQ5vSyvvBbE/видео.html
I just started surfing. Where can I find these sine waves at?
What ..? A $500 ups feeding a $26,000 power regenerator...?
If there’s a power outage and your that desperate to finish Brahm’s 5th ... hook your system up to a nice quiet little Honda 5 Kva petrol generator ... perfect sine wave and much lower source impedance than either an ups or a P20..! But don’t forget to put the Honda outside !! And use thick cables !!
If you're referring to the Honda generator that I think you're referring to they have a tendency of using a lot of inverter set ups on the output to make them lighter and more efficient however they were generally of a higher quality and nearly always a sine wave
Stepped sine wave will ultimately blow the smps at the least.
where did you get that?
You are hearme on hfv?
"Stepped sine wave will ultimately blow the smps at the least."And your source? Explanation?
John Hodgson just do the math.
Rikhav Shah what is hfv?
Some cheap UPS's output a simple square wave which is at 170 volts. So an audio amplifier with a traditional unregulated power supply will now produce considerably more DC rail voltage. That could easily stress the output transistors and other components as well. So there is some validity to this warning. Anything with a switch mode power supply like a TV or commodity DVD player could care less. They run fine on highly distorted AC power. And as just about all computers use switch mode power supplies, the cheap UPS systems are fine for that purpose.
Oddly enough, UPS delivered my stereo.
The power going out in the house is a pretty serious issue, but I'll be damned if it'll stop me in the middle of listening to Bach (or whatever you listen to).
I understand wanting to protect audio gear but surge protectors are generally sufficient.
I can send you a STEREO by UPS
The UPS turns the 24v into AC and then amplify it. basics of transformers.
Call the coal train or call the coltrane?
endrizo coal to Coltrane
@@graxjpg yes thanks found it...ruclips.net/video/ZQ5vSyvvBbE/видео.html