4:58 "Sans should also be comparable to Snowdrake's Mother, who was able to act as and power a refrigerator." Have I talked enough about how much I adore this show?
First video I saw from you guys, and this is great. Love the presentation, writing and voice acting of this. And this matchup being my second favourite MU of all time makes this episode being great a real treat. I'm also surprised with the verdict. I don't necessarily agree with it, but you explained your reasonings pretty well so I won't complain (and also Sans W is cool). Overall, loved this. 9/10. It's also is (well... was, because it's pretty late now when I watched this) my birthday, so this is a nice thing to watch to end my day.
Loved working on this with you, thank you for the opportunity. first time properly voice acting, hope i did a good job and hope everyone enjoyed my voice for sans, i class this as a bonified victory for the judge of the underworld
People do think about the matchup, it's just that most people have The Judge as faster then the skeleton so it becomes as simple as "Star level vs Wall level stomp"
Meow are you all doing? Happy to be here again as the voice of The Judge! OFF is a game I really enjoyed, so I'm glad to help it get the spotlight it deserves! Hope you all had a good time with this episode!!
@@therandomchannelx4875it's unclear if the attacks are light based or if the batter is dodging them since OFF does have an accuracy system. But the batter and hence the judge should still be light speed realistically cause the stuff said in the video about the nothingness is kinda wrong
@joseacassio4164 guess I gotta do a little more research then I still believe he has a faster feat than what they gave him but I’ll do some research before I come to a conclusion.
If you max scale both characters (To their furthest possible point) then Judge scales to light speed with light based attacks and Sans scales to... basically impossible speeds? Frisk dodges and outruns Asriel's timeline purge basically outrunning qnd multiversal black hole.
I personally may not necessarily agree with the verdict, But I'm not gonna be some shrewd and be disrespectful about it. Everything else was pretty nice. I liked it. Great job. 👍✨
I love that this takes into account the canonality of Undertale's mechanics, such as the fact the Judge's soul would be attacked directly, and would also be weak due to a lack of direct and intentional killing on his part due to how those soul-based attacks work. Judge might have a power advantage, but the way Sans' attacks function close that gap significantly. It's a much more interesting way to think about a fight like this.
Except OFF follows a completely different set of rules, it's not exactly fair to say The Judge only has 20 HP because he should according to Undertale's logic. If we were to do the same to Sans, he shouldn't be able to hurt The Judge at all, because OFF has a completely different combat system.
@@nicolewhite3157 Not necessarily, because that still wouldn't change the way Sans attacks. That's not just part of the combat system, that factors into the lore of the series, so it's more than just a mechanic.
@@scorpiouskrimsonMaybe so, but at the end of the day my overall point is that you can't really toss either character into the other playbook. The way each of these games mechanics work is fundamentally different and incompatible. Once you start factoring in stuff like "The Judge would LV1 and 20 HP because Undertale rules say he should" you gotta factor in stuff like "Monika can only control her own game, so her opponents are immune to her hax". A pretty blatantly unfair judgement. At the end of the day however, I'm just someone throwing their own hat hat into the ring. You're more than free to disagree with me.
@@nicolewhite3157 Yeah, I can understand why you have your stance, and while I do personally disagree, since I think it's a little more nuanced and that things kinda have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, I can also see why you have your stance and I don't disparage it. I wasn't necessarily saying that it's how things should be looked at in my initial comment, anyhow, I just think it's an interesting way to do so, and makes sense for the lore of Undertale since the way Sans comments on it does seem to make it a factor into the technically canon system of their battles, but I don't know enough about OFF to really determine the bigger picture of that, so I respect that I don't have the full story.
17:02 Aaaayyyyy glad that music is getting more notice now. But as for the episode it's self is really fantastic btw despite they only have a few screen time but really enjoyed the analysis for both characters. The fight is pretty nice also tho I think the dialogue is alright ig but hey you guys did pretty decent job at it. And i don't mind Sans winning tbh (even tho my love for OFF is still rooting for Pablo)
Despite me not really agreeing with the result, this was really good! Kinda sucks I didn’t get the role, but I’m gonna try if more roles ever come out! Keep up the good work!
Is there any evidence that Sans can actually stop time or is it just an assumption? Because from what I'm seeing that part from the Grillby's hangout seemed to be just for dramatic effect, especially because it's not something he ever does again.
Papyrus does just confirm that sans has Space and time manipulation if you call him while in Sans's room. And Sans does kinda use it while fighting frisk,in the latter half of Sans's fight when every he does the attack which is just several random attacks back to back,whenever the screen goes black it can be interpreted as sans stopping time to set up his attack
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz Papyrus says "did Sans prank you across time and space? I hate it when he does that." The statement is too vague, we don't even know what he does to prank someone across time and space, and while I can see how one could interpret the "click" attacks as stopping time, once again we don't really know. There's no concrete evidence that he can stop time, and according to the video Sans would win without it anyway. So if this ability is completely inconsequential to how Sans wins, and it's up For debate if it even exists, I don't really think it's even worth mentioning.
@joseacassio4164not everything is meant to be taken literally. For example, in movies love at first sight is usually signified by things slowing down. But those characters don't have time manipulation do they?
@@nicolewhite3157you can kinda mix both the grillby scene with the papyrus statement and it actually gives you a somewhat believable case for Sans having time manipulation. Like papyrus tells you Sans has time manipulation and the grillby scene is him using it. Just a different between this and the horror movie thing is just that the horror movie troup is that everything for the mcs freezes including themselves showing they don't have time manipulation,while in the grillby scene everything around Sans and Frisk freezes (somewhat) showing that Sans has control of it.
If you’re interested, I would like to see Molecule Man vs. Doctor Manhattan, that one feels perfect for both characters. I personally think that one would come down to if Molecule Man can find and affect Doctor Manhattan’s consciousness.
You can take most of their points as to why Sans wins since they are true But,I would've changed the scaling like I'm not sold on the light speed judge debunks and if they were going to have Sans win they should've just scaled Sans to light Speed instead of low balling Pablo
I think the points made were pretty good but the problem I feel like is that some things they kind of misunderstand and also add scenarios which are kind of.. situational for Sans to win to say the very least.
Didn’t the judge survive purification which whipped out send every being to the nothingness which is the void. Would that make he strong against soul attacks. The specters are said to be ghost of the npc
It's unclear on that. Nothings been confirmed on what purification actually does to Zones like some people interpret it as "Since the batter killed the Zone guardians the Zones went into economic failure and all the remaining Elsons changed shape due to emotion stress mixed with the purified Zones"
You are kind of forgetting one thing, Sans can only do 1 damage... Kr is Sans's only really heavy source of damage as I'm pretty sure it gets rid of invincibility frames. Another factor we have to play in is that we have no clue about how much Hp the judge would even have... he could have 600 or even 1000 for for all we know, and that against a guy who can only do 1 damage is a very heavy factor. I'm not counting the Judge's in game hp as I don't know if his soul would even have the same effect, and if he does have a lot of Hp then it will surly give him enough time to learn and counter attack.
They talk about some of those points in the corner boxes in the conclusion, don't know if you'd agree with them but it's their thoughts on those points
As much as I prefer Sans winning cause I like him as a character more then judge (I've played OFF tho and judge is a great character) I'm just not fully sold on the debunk of light speed judge. Like wouldn't Pablo need light speed reaction speed to select the right zone to travel to? I get the idea of "oh it's just the teleport that is light speed not them picking the zone to travel to" but if that was an opinion in the debate I feel like that should of been mentioned. Regardless you can still argue a sans win if you by light speed Undertale and Sans should still be faster if you do it's just different scaling though. Great vid either way
That sort of thing is such a common thread in video games that I feel like most people generally know can't be assumed as a reaction feat. Like Mario picking galaxies before being launched out of a Launch Star, or Astro being turned into data to travel to worlds in Astro's Playroom. It's not something that could ever really be scaled to characters unless there's a good chunk of supporting evidence. Frisk also dodges lasers and energy attacks that most would argue move at light-speed. I understand not believing them inherently, but if we're giving Batter the leeway to count something like that, it's much less of an ask to count Frisk's own light-speed reactions. And since Sans can blitz Frisk, well, yeah. Not saying this research is totally bulletproof (especially as I don't know either of these games super well beyond playing through them once), but I don't think that *this* specific argument is, on its own, enough to sway the victor the other way.
@@LittleZbot I'm in the group of Undertale scaling where I don't think light speed frisk and sans is that much of a stretch. Except Undertale is the game that has gathered so many debunkers and people who don't how to scale any character at all let alone Undertale characters or people who only look back at when animation rewind and CFC had to have a sans episode every other episode so everyone got sick of Undertale in VS and especially Sans,so some people just downplay Undertale characters just because they can. I've seen it on both ends where people either are saying most Undertale characters aren't even "child level" or people who without a doubt jump to scaling Sans to Asriel or pacifist frisk so "Sans must be imm and universal" and then when people disagree with either side they only bring up the scaling in Undertale that is easily debunk able so now everyone's confused
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz Light speed frisk is easily debunkable. Knight knight's "mini sun" doesnt have actual light properties, but it IS a sun because it emits star dust. Prime DT frisk doesn't scale OFF (badumtss.) course, so sans basically is atleast mach 8 in terms of speeds. The judge? Off is iffy, thing is with OFF is that FTL feats dont add up aswell. If you count The Batter going towards the sun then Pablo washes sans, if you don't? Hard to decide really. Clearly, The Judge has universal attacks, the files and saves of OFF are implied to be timelines. The best speed feat in off is batter climbing up that dang ladder back in zone 3, which is sub-sonic. So this is like ALL Sans match-ups. Who hits first. Sans immediantly slams the opponent down and bombards them with Bones. The judge's first move is a thought based attack. Hand swing down vs 3-A attack.
@@Awesomedude20-z8xI know light speed Undertale isn't agreed upon but if knight Knights sun is real why wouldn't it have light based attacks? There's other light speed Undertale arguements aswell so I'll just spell them out. Frisk dodging Gaster blasters which are described as lasers in the game files. (Yes I know frisk could be aim training but look at Sans's final barrage of Gaster blasters I just doubt frisk is aim training ALL of them,like you can literally stand in the center of the spiral and still outrun all the lasers.) Then there's a statement made by Nabstablook where he says he reacted to a flash a light,take that as you will.
Well now, I know see this matchup in a whole new light. I must say, at first I touht something was "OFF", but as time marched on, I saw how well this "tale" was explained (even then this matchup is still spinning around a string ball). I'm boned, great episode!
For anyone confused about Sans’s speed At a pretty extreme lowball (ignoring the true pacifist and genocide routes [except Sans’s fight]), he’s lightspeed. In hotland, Frisk was able to move at about three times the speed of lightning. Lightning is 1/3 the speed of light. Sans is faster than Frisk, which is why he was able to dodge their attacks, making him lightspeed. But, if we’re not using that extreme lowball, he has immeasurable speed. As I mentioned before, his speed scales above Frisks’s, who, in the true pacifist route, was able to outspeed an attack called Hyper Goner, which was able to suck in and consume the infinite universe, in a couple of seconds. But, in the genocide route, they were able to move around in a completely timeless void (it’s timeless. That’s why we can’t reset), giving Frisk and Sans (and Chara too, but we’re not really including them here) immeasurable speed.
Sans isn't immesurable... That's what a lv 1 frisk with peak DT accomplished, A froggit would have immesurable speed and multiversal Attack Potency, which isn't the case lol. I mean, come on. We both know that a Froggit doesn't throw out flies that go immesurable speed beyond linear time. CHARA' "moved" in the timeless void you are mentioning, but if your mentioning that then Batter is immesurable as well, Judge should also be immesurable in speed to. Judge should be relative to sans if you count such blasphemous feat. You mean the vulkin thing right? Doesn't make sense either because Vulkins lightning isn't jagged. Second off, Tsunder Plane is going to be town level because of the Momentum of which it's attacks are going. Therefor using Vulkin as a primarily source for speed isn't correct.
Immeasurable Sans is certainly a funny joke, not even the skeleton himself could have thought of that. The Frisk that accomplished that speed feat had peak DT, it's clearly not the standard speed at all. Unless you seriously want to say every UT haracter is immeasurable. Isn't the hyper goner the attack that almost no one ever dodges completely? Like damn near every play through I've watched it leaves the player with 1 HP. Sans's best actual speed feat is scaling to Frisk's hypersonic meteor dodging, while The Judge is relativistic. If you want to give both the dubious sun speed feats (The Batter flying to the Sun, and Knight Knights Sun attack) The Judge is still faster.
@@nicolewhite3157 Frisk very likely had the same amount of DT due to both the nature of the fight, and due to the fact that it was the final boss. On my first TP playthrough, I survived hyper goner with 18/20 HP, which was the same I went in with. Frisk also was shown to move around in a void where time didn’t exist shortly after the fight, and should have the same speed during the Sans fight. The lowest I can almost reasonable lowball Sans is MFTL, since Frisk moved about 3X the speed of lightning during a regular battle, where they had significantly less DT than during the Sans fight.
@Mrsir529 ...? Those are both different scenarios. The reason why is TRUE pacifist frisk REFUSED to die on death to save THEIR friends. Meanwhile a LV 1 frisk with a twig could barely kill Toriel. So don't try and scale PRIME DT frisk up to everyone in the undertale cast, the verse which is small building at its best, (due to the consistent small building level feats), can't become 2-A.
This matchup was always such a cool one. Indie games are always a treat, ever since I was introduced to them wayyyy back when I was in Grade School by playing Cave Story. Great episode! I don’t really agree with the reasons behind Sans winning, however. I still think Judge comes out on top like 9 times out of 10. The time stop scenes you showed also aren’t actually time stop. The no turn thing is an attack that messes with the game mechanics, and that scene where the spotlight goes to them, thats not time stop thats just dramatic suspense and pause. But that is a minor complaint to the overall episode!
The fights actually pretty debatable if you put them both at even speeds,but like thats the hard part. Judge should just be light speed from the nothingness feat and while light speed Undertale is a thing it's definitely not agree on. If you do put them both at light speed then it just comes down to "can judge just create attacks Sans can't dodge or can Sans avoid them at least briefly and destroy Pablo's soul
What's funny is that death battle themselves are also biased alot So it's honestly arguably to sah wether or not a fanmade death battle is accurate or not
Love this the voice acting was top notch but I disagree with the verdict tho I kinda see the reason why sans still sans would win keep up the good work
I do not agree with this outcome at all. Amd it honestly confuses me how this conclusion was made. What's especially jarring is the lack of detail in The Judges analysis. There was no time taken to discuss what any of his competencies can do
@alexgreer6336 He has paralysis, hax negation, poison, he can mess with senses like hearing and sight, he can turn off the use of special abilities, durability negation, soul manipulation, and light speed travel. So the tldr of this debate is that everything Sans has, Pablo also has, while also being able to resist and negate all of Sans's weapons and abilities.
@@thecrusader2784 Yeah, still can't tell if this one or Anne vs Luz is worse, because they said that the titans scale to the archivists, but in reality they just have anti-hax over them
One of the weirdest things is completely ignoring the possibility relativistic reaction speeds, it essentially boils down to "nu-uh". How could a reactionary feat only be a "side effect" anyway? And don't get me started on the "Pablo would only have 20 HP" it was stupid in the original reddit post that brought it up, and it's stupid here.
Every time Fan battle does a MU that is a MU that gets requested for Death battle a lot this is most likely going to be a MU that no one knows and is almost never requested. (Like Moro vs Tirek having someone only in the manga)
I'm going to go ahead and point out some grievances I have with this result. "Pablo can't move at lightspeed without the nothingness, and it's likely relativistic reaction speeds are a side effect of the realm". I fail to see how Pablo shouldn't have relativistic reaction speeds, yes everything moves light speed there, but The Batter (and by extension Pablo) still needs see, perceive, and react to the realm. There's not any evidence that the nothingness buffs reaction speed, and it seems safer to say it doesn't considering we're here to take characters at their peak. Now most of the corner boxes are fine, but there's one in particular that I don't agree with. "seeing as Pablo has never killed anyone he'd have a very low LV and by extension lo soul HP" Uh, no? That's applying Undertales logic to a character who follows a completely different set of mechanics. For this to work the fight would have to take place in the Undertale world, but for the sake of the debate they're placed on neutral ground. So this just doesn't work. If we were to do the same and have Sans go OFF's play book Then, oh shit. OFF has a completely different combat system that completely fucks Sans over, whoops guess he gets one shot. Now all of that being said. This is one of my most wanted matchups, and I was giddy the entire way through seeing it done Justice. Even with a result I disagree with, this has everything I would want to see in the actual episode of DB ever gets around to doing it. The personality clash, Sans being a troll (particularly with the ketchup fake-out), a cool setup. The abilities play off of each other nicely, and overall it's fun. You did a really good job on this episode.
I also disagree with the speed debunk but I also see their though process. I'm more lenient towards giving judge light speed because there's nothing indicating perception gets enhanced in the nothingness though. As for the corner box this is also kinda dumb. I think the intention was to just explain why Sans's soul hax could win despite the gap in strength but it's wrong to just throw Pablo into Undertale rules and Call it a day. The corner box should've been something like "While it's impossible to lock exact numbers on how durable Pablo's souls would be all the matters is that it doesn't scale to his regular durability and Sans would be able to destroy it over time" or something like that.
I also kind of disagree with the whole “He can bypass Pablo’s soul” and “He can stop time” thing too considering those things are VERY up for interpretation and also just.. not really fair? By that logic we may as well take Pablo’s attack names literal too which basically just means he can wash Sans even easier due to being able to inflict LITERAL ANEURYSMS onto others. Which even then can still be debated as something in his possibility if you buy the whole “Specters and Judge represent Hugo’s illness” theory
The judge +was stronger +more durable -has less opinions for ending the fight -slower -dosent have a defense against soul damage Sans +has more options +faster +can spam his attacks +can teleport so it would be difficult for judge to land a hit -way less durable
@@antonitocotter447 No, not really. Sans's bones are intangible and they do go for the soul. But pablo can interact with intangibility. And he could also, y'know. Go at FTL speeds. Pretty much just explodes sans and gets the job done.
Its kinda sad that every one shifts the blame onto chara forgetting that you are the one that dose everything. Chara even says it themselves. Cant be helped thogh fannon has become way more well known than cannon i mean just look at gaster
So... Sans +Much Faster +Superior arsenal and teleportation could keep Pablo at distance +Soul Manipulation bypassed Pablo's durability -Much weaker The Judge +Much more powerful +Insta Kill Options... -...But too slow to pull them off -Less versatile arsenal -Vulnerable to Soul Manipulation
No, not really sans IS mach 8. The judge is MFTL, he washes. If you dont use the judge's MFTL feat? The judge would probably use his thought based mind attack that doesn't travel distance against sans and proceed to explode him. Pretty much who attacks first. (Personally I believe in Judge being MFTL, but ehhhh... iffy.) Sans could slam him down and insta-kill him maybe.
The connections between Sans and The Judge are: Both are white, short-stature, seemingly weak but actually powerful as f*ck characters From Similar Video Games who can break the fourth wall and are mysterious and tricksters or mischievous If you do something in the wrong way, they are characters who can stomp you down if you do something wrong in a Truly Bad-Time They end fighting and being a hard challenge to a emotion-less protagonist who has murdered people (Frisk and The Batter), willing to help you at the start through the Game, but at the end they end judging and beating the crap out of you. The fight should be in sprites The name for the CAC should be Karmic Judge.
so here we are again, great episode i do say but.. the godamn electricity lightning stuff which is openly wrong, characters like metaton who use electricity are one frame shots, meaning electricity and magic do not move at the same speed. nore does any other magic in this case, not to mention you sadly didn't go over the other light speed stuff. ignoring the absolute stomp that is ap, what you didn't account for was the fact that the electricity feats are inherntly wrong intirely. (also the fact that theirs no proof for judges attacks needing to be focused, as in the fight with batter judge will always hit no matter what.) My rating for this episode 7/10 Conclusion The episode had be at the edge of my seat, the explanations were great and had a lot of character put into it. obvious research was shown here within the fight and analysis. Ending status: Wrong.
I can understand disagreeing with the winner since judge is the agreed upon winner, But I don't fully see what you're saying on the electricity thing like they scaled Sans to lighting dodging not electricity dodging,and with the Metaton thing like you need to factor in that undertale has to have a story and gameplay for the person playing to enjoy. I just see the electricity thing as just gameplay animation being faulty just to fit the gameplay being played
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz my point is, metaton uses electricity something that moves much slower than lightning, which in this case is backed up to be real electricity, take the metaton quiz, if you choose it wrong you get shocked, which is a one frame blast that cannot be dodged, meaning hypersonic sans is bullshit, also them excluding uni off kinda stinks but whateva, anyways, in the purafied zones are stated to have an absence of space time, making imm off a valid option. which idk bout you is like a maybe a smidge faster than hypersonic even if you believe such a thing
@@Cryptized To me something being animated has to be ignored in a debate as nothing in most games is animated how it should be logically like just because it LOOKS slow doesn't mean it IS slow because Undertale to be playable has to dial back how accurate the speed is to function. if you want to use animation then a fly from froggit is quicker then asriels hypergoner. As for uni OFF I'm not the most sure about it but the only potential uni feat I know is that it's said the queen could undo all the damage done to the zones,except this is vague and it's also said the queen would need help and time to do this. Also imm OFF seems a bit much since that could just also mean "there is no speed so nothing to calculate on how fast stuff is"
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz you've missread what i have sent, im not talking about animation, im talking about speed, you cannot react to electricity which is slower than lightning so why would you be able to dodge lightning, its a walking contradiction, example: im running at a pace of 800 mph, but then i get outsped by a car going 40 mph, in this case we assume the last feat, the 800 mph one is an outlieir, and in this case multiple outliars, frisk cant dodge electricity for 5 times, meaning the lightning is wrong, and shouldn't be moving at lightning speeds, meaning judge should have a huge speed advantage in this case.
@@CryptizedI'm still not sold on the thought process like I did misunderstand what you said earlier but I don't think Metaton's electricity is anything more then an anti-feat at best because it's more then likely enforced by gameplay and NOT LETTING frisk dodge the electricity not that frisk CAN'T dodge the electricity. Like the context is that Metaton has forced frisk to play by his game shows rules and the entire gameshow is just there because it's part of the story. Like I don't know if I'm phrasing this correctly but I am trying to say "it's story driven and not an accurate representation of what frisk can do" Metaton EX literally attacks frisk with electricity later and they can dodge it just fine and Sans has feats he does himself that are faster then electricity timing. So I just see the Metaton gameshow as gameplay at worst and an anti-feat at best
Here’s a quick debunk: Your main point on why sans wins is speed, but if by your logic sans can’t use KR then there would be no reason that would be a problem for the judge. Also, lightning speed scale is a highball (not a massive one as 99% of undertale scaling is interpretation). For 1, asriel and vulkins lightning are extremely different, as Asriels is instant and vulkins is slow. So what I’m getting at is that we don’t know whether it’s actual lightning or just magic. And considering in both undertale and deltarune there’s more varying speeds of lightning it’s safe to assume vulkins is just another magic attack. Also, sans can’t time stop
Sans isn't MHS, but he IS hypersonic in speed. Remember that time when frisk dodged knight knight's meteors? They were mach 4... but using 4 sea teas makes sans mach 8. Judge is at FTL, and and is universal, So I don't know how judge lost.
@@Awesomedude20-z8x saying Judge is FTL and Universal is a joke not even Sans would be able to come up with. saying Undertale scaling is interpretive then using the nothingness to scale reaction speed is genuinely baffling. also Uni AP/Dura wouldn't matter since Sans bypasses dura and dies in one hit anyways, plus Hugo doesn't actually do anything to defend himself so that scaling is OFF anyways (ba dum tss)
KR and being able to bypass INV frames are 2 different things if that's what you're getting at, with removing KR not really doing anything as it would still take the same amount of time with or without them Asriel is a god that can manipulate space time, you really think he can't just make lightning faster? also saying it should be slower due to being made of magic is flawed since we have no idea how fast "magic lightning" is so just comparing it to real lightning is the best solution Sans' time stop doesn't actually affect the fight at all
@@helton1812How in the hell is using the Nothingness to scale reaction speeds baffling? The way the map is setup does not necessarily harm the feat. Nothingness encompasses all the zones, even the Sun. The users of Nothingness still have to move around and guide themselves to any of the zones, they do not automatically get sent to them. Judge notes he frequently uses it, which makes sense as he goes to zone 1 and 2. Likewise, Batter still has to react to himself going at light speed to access the correct Zone. The best piece of evidence that the Nothingness movement is actually a feat is the Room. The Room uses a cursor to showcase the movement, while the Nothingness has the actual Batter moving instead of an icon. The fact is that there exists a similar world map feat which DOESN’T use the Batter, and instead uses a more generalized cursor, which could’ve been done for the Nothingness if desired. The Batter is actually moving in Nothingness, it is not usage of the Batter to just bring them from point a to point b. Given he has to react while moving at light speed, he needs relativistic reactions to pull off zone travel. Now I agree with you that The Judge isn't FTL, he only has relativistic reaction speeds. But that's still *WAY* faster than the only hypersonic Sans. Also yes, universal OFF is fucking stupid lol.
There are 4 VS Battle I would always want to be done; And I would like for you to choose one: A. Ginormica VS Starscream (Monsters vs Aliens movie, series, and games .VS Transformers Prime series, specials, and games. No Robots in Disguise power-ups) B. Laura Croft VS Captain Rex (Tomb Raider VS Star War) C. Sigma VS Uravaity ( Overwatch VS My Hero Academia, The Duality of Mid-Tier gravity users) D. Alma Wade vs Yoriko Omega (FEAR vs Red Alert)
I agree since cat guy aka Pablo (who I will call cat) doesn’t has knowledge of Sans moves especially the blue ones and dodging (possibly but probably not) and cat is gullible probably more than most humans basically cats main weakness is sans greatest strength so yeah most likely sans takes the w
Fantastic video! The rundowns are so well made! Can’t wait for next time too! the mandalorian vs the courier is one of my most wanted recently
4:58 "Sans should also be comparable to Snowdrake's Mother, who was able to act as and power a refrigerator."
Have I talked enough about how much I adore this show?
First video I saw from you guys, and this is great. Love the presentation, writing and voice acting of this. And this matchup being my second favourite MU of all time makes this episode being great a real treat. I'm also surprised with the verdict. I don't necessarily agree with it, but you explained your reasonings pretty well so I won't complain (and also Sans W is cool). Overall, loved this. 9/10. It's also is (well... was, because it's pretty late now when I watched this) my birthday, so this is a nice thing to watch to end my day.
I agree with you on that.
What's your first fav matchup?
@@hexry1139 Monokuma vs Koro Sensei
Loved working on this with you, thank you for the opportunity. first time properly voice acting, hope i did a good job and hope everyone enjoyed my voice for sans, i class this as a bonified victory for the judge of the underworld
You were good!
You did great.
Well played!
Love it when people actually think about the matchup rather than reducing it down to “star level vs wall level stomp” lol
Sans weak asf outside his verse. Unless you wanna say he can use the battle system
People do think about the matchup, it's just that most people have The Judge as faster then the skeleton so it becomes as simple as "Star level vs Wall level stomp"
Fr bruh
@@nicolewhite3157really everywhere I’ve seen this match everyone agrees that Sans is faster
Meow are you all doing? Happy to be here again as the voice of The Judge! OFF is a game I really enjoyed, so I'm glad to help it get the spotlight it deserves! Hope you all had a good time with this episode!!
You did a good job as Pablo
Thank you so much!! 😊
I don’t agree with the outcome, but I’m just glad I got to even hear this matchup in the first place
By the way, maybe I might be getting it wrong but in the game the batter can dodge light-based attacks from his enemies
@@therandomchannelx4875it's unclear if the attacks are light based or if the batter is dodging them since OFF does have an accuracy system.
But the batter and hence the judge should still be light speed realistically cause the stuff said in the video about the nothingness is kinda wrong
@joseacassio4164 guess I gotta do a little more research then I still believe he has a faster feat than what they gave him but I’ll do some research before I come to a conclusion.
If you max scale both characters (To their furthest possible point) then Judge scales to light speed with light based attacks and Sans scales to... basically impossible speeds? Frisk dodges and outruns Asriel's timeline purge basically outrunning qnd multiversal black hole.
@@getthedunkon9347 hyper goner isn't something Sans even slightly scales to. He doesn't get that
I personally may not necessarily agree with the verdict,
But I'm not gonna be some shrewd and be disrespectful about it.
Everything else was pretty nice.
I liked it.
Great job.
👍✨
I love that this takes into account the canonality of Undertale's mechanics, such as the fact the Judge's soul would be attacked directly, and would also be weak due to a lack of direct and intentional killing on his part due to how those soul-based attacks work. Judge might have a power advantage, but the way Sans' attacks function close that gap significantly. It's a much more interesting way to think about a fight like this.
Except OFF follows a completely different set of rules, it's not exactly fair to say The Judge only has 20 HP because he should according to Undertale's logic.
If we were to do the same to Sans, he shouldn't be able to hurt The Judge at all, because OFF has a completely different combat system.
@@nicolewhite3157 Not necessarily, because that still wouldn't change the way Sans attacks. That's not just part of the combat system, that factors into the lore of the series, so it's more than just a mechanic.
@@scorpiouskrimsonMaybe so, but at the end of the day my overall point is that you can't really toss either character into the other playbook. The way each of these games mechanics work is fundamentally different and incompatible.
Once you start factoring in stuff like "The Judge would LV1 and 20 HP because Undertale rules say he should" you gotta factor in stuff like "Monika can only control her own game, so her opponents are immune to her hax". A pretty blatantly unfair judgement.
At the end of the day however, I'm just someone throwing their own hat hat into the ring. You're more than free to disagree with me.
@@nicolewhite3157 Yeah, I can understand why you have your stance, and while I do personally disagree, since I think it's a little more nuanced and that things kinda have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, I can also see why you have your stance and I don't disparage it.
I wasn't necessarily saying that it's how things should be looked at in my initial comment, anyhow, I just think it's an interesting way to do so, and makes sense for the lore of Undertale since the way Sans comments on it does seem to make it a factor into the technically canon system of their battles, but I don't know enough about OFF to really determine the bigger picture of that, so I respect that I don't have the full story.
I LOVE the voice acting in this one!! also the script was so great! the references to fandom stuff were so fun lol
17:02 Aaaayyyyy glad that music is getting more notice now. But as for the episode it's self is really fantastic btw despite they only have a few screen time but really enjoyed the analysis for both characters.
The fight is pretty nice also tho I think the dialogue is alright ig but hey you guys did pretty decent job at it. And i don't mind Sans winning tbh (even tho my love for OFF is still rooting for Pablo)
Despite me not really agreeing with the result, this was really good!
Kinda sucks I didn’t get the role, but I’m gonna try if more roles ever come out!
Keep up the good work!
Is there any evidence that Sans can actually stop time or is it just an assumption?
Because from what I'm seeing that part from the Grillby's hangout seemed to be just for dramatic effect, especially because it's not something he ever does again.
Papyrus does just confirm that sans has Space and time manipulation if you call him while in Sans's room.
And Sans does kinda use it while fighting frisk,in the latter half of Sans's fight when every he does the attack which is just several random attacks back to back,whenever the screen goes black it can be interpreted as sans stopping time to set up his attack
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz Papyrus says "did Sans prank you across time and space? I hate it when he does that."
The statement is too vague, we don't even know what he does to prank someone across time and space, and while I can see how one could interpret the "click" attacks as stopping time, once again we don't really know. There's no concrete evidence that he can stop time, and according to the video Sans would win without it anyway. So if this ability is completely inconsequential to how Sans wins, and it's up For debate if it even exists, I don't really think it's even worth mentioning.
@@nicolewhite3157 alright
@joseacassio4164not everything is meant to be taken literally.
For example, in movies love at first sight is usually signified by things slowing down. But those characters don't have time manipulation do they?
@@nicolewhite3157you can kinda mix both the grillby scene with the papyrus statement and it actually gives you a somewhat believable case for Sans having time manipulation. Like papyrus tells you Sans has time manipulation and the grillby scene is him using it.
Just a different between this and the horror movie thing is just that the horror movie troup is that everything for the mcs freezes including themselves showing they don't have time manipulation,while in the grillby scene everything around Sans and Frisk freezes (somewhat) showing that Sans has control of it.
Ok, I know we’re supposed to be talking about the actual battle, but the presentation on the next time was amazing!
Fantastic episode, really loved everything in the fight and analysis for both. Really excited for the next time!!!
I love this so much. Awsome work, I wanted to comment something but didn’t know what. Pls, RUclips let me stay on this side
If you’re interested, I would like to see Molecule Man vs. Doctor Manhattan, that one feels perfect for both characters. I personally think that one would come down to if Molecule Man can find and affect Doctor Manhattan’s consciousness.
Alright people
Let's just get this over with
Do you agree with the outcome?
You can take most of their points as to why Sans wins since they are true
But,I would've changed the scaling like I'm not sold on the light speed judge debunks and if they were going to have Sans win they should've just scaled Sans to light Speed instead of low balling Pablo
I think pablo should've won, and lightning speed feats were debunked in undertale so dunno what's that about.
I think the points made were pretty good but the problem I feel like is that some things they kind of misunderstand and also add scenarios which are kind of.. situational for Sans to win to say the very least.
this wasn't something i was expecting, but i like it
15:57 the reference was mad as weird as it might be for those who don't understand
Stronger Than You (I like how simple it was put in there!)
Didn’t the judge survive purification which whipped out send every being to the nothingness which is the void. Would that make he strong against soul attacks. The specters are said to be ghost of the npc
It's unclear on that. Nothings been confirmed on what purification actually does to Zones like some people interpret it as "Since the batter killed the Zone guardians the Zones went into economic failure and all the remaining Elsons changed shape due to emotion stress mixed with the purified Zones"
You are kind of forgetting one thing, Sans can only do 1 damage... Kr is Sans's only really heavy source of damage as I'm pretty sure it gets rid of invincibility frames. Another factor we have to play in is that we have no clue about how much Hp the judge would even have... he could have 600 or even 1000 for for all we know, and that against a guy who can only do 1 damage is a very heavy factor. I'm not counting the Judge's in game hp as I don't know if his soul would even have the same effect, and if he does have a lot of Hp then it will surly give him enough time to learn and counter attack.
They talk about some of those points in the corner boxes in the conclusion, don't know if you'd agree with them but it's their thoughts on those points
As much as I prefer Sans winning cause I like him as a character more then judge (I've played OFF tho and judge is a great character)
I'm just not fully sold on the debunk of light speed judge. Like wouldn't Pablo need light speed reaction speed to select the right zone to travel to?
I get the idea of "oh it's just the teleport that is light speed not them picking the zone to travel to" but if that was an opinion in the debate I feel like that should of been mentioned.
Regardless you can still argue a sans win if you by light speed Undertale and Sans should still be faster if you do it's just different scaling though.
Great vid either way
That sort of thing is such a common thread in video games that I feel like most people generally know can't be assumed as a reaction feat. Like Mario picking galaxies before being launched out of a Launch Star, or Astro being turned into data to travel to worlds in Astro's Playroom. It's not something that could ever really be scaled to characters unless there's a good chunk of supporting evidence. Frisk also dodges lasers and energy attacks that most would argue move at light-speed. I understand not believing them inherently, but if we're giving Batter the leeway to count something like that, it's much less of an ask to count Frisk's own light-speed reactions. And since Sans can blitz Frisk, well, yeah.
Not saying this research is totally bulletproof (especially as I don't know either of these games super well beyond playing through them once), but I don't think that *this* specific argument is, on its own, enough to sway the victor the other way.
@@LittleZbot I'm in the group of Undertale scaling where I don't think light speed frisk and sans is that much of a stretch.
Except Undertale is the game that has gathered so many debunkers and people who don't how to scale any character at all let alone Undertale characters or people who only look back at when animation rewind and CFC had to have a sans episode every other episode so everyone got sick of Undertale in VS and especially Sans,so some people just downplay Undertale characters just because they can. I've seen it on both ends where people either are saying most Undertale characters aren't even "child level" or people who without a doubt jump to scaling Sans to Asriel or pacifist frisk so "Sans must be imm and universal" and then when people disagree with either side they only bring up the scaling in Undertale that is easily debunk able so now everyone's confused
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz Completely fair.
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz Light speed frisk is easily debunkable. Knight knight's "mini sun" doesnt have actual light properties, but it IS a sun because it emits star dust.
Prime DT frisk doesn't scale OFF (badumtss.) course, so sans basically is atleast mach 8 in terms of speeds.
The judge? Off is iffy, thing is with OFF is that FTL feats dont add up aswell. If you count The Batter going towards the sun then Pablo washes sans, if you don't? Hard to decide really. Clearly, The Judge has universal attacks, the files and saves of OFF are implied to be timelines. The best speed feat in off is batter climbing up that dang ladder back in zone 3, which is sub-sonic.
So this is like ALL Sans match-ups. Who hits first.
Sans immediantly slams the opponent down and bombards them with Bones.
The judge's first move is a thought based attack.
Hand swing down vs 3-A attack.
@@Awesomedude20-z8xI know light speed Undertale isn't agreed upon but if knight Knights sun is real why wouldn't it have light based attacks?
There's other light speed Undertale arguements aswell so I'll just spell them out.
Frisk dodging Gaster blasters which are described as lasers in the game files. (Yes I know frisk could be aim training but look at Sans's final barrage of Gaster blasters I just doubt frisk is aim training ALL of them,like you can literally stand in the center of the spiral and still outrun all the lasers.)
Then there's a statement made by Nabstablook where he says he reacted to a flash a light,take that as you will.
Well now, I know see this matchup in a whole new light. I must say, at first I touht something was "OFF", but as time marched on, I saw how well this "tale" was explained (even then this matchup is still spinning around a string ball). I'm boned, great episode!
For anyone confused about Sans’s speed
At a pretty extreme lowball (ignoring the true pacifist and genocide routes [except Sans’s fight]), he’s lightspeed. In hotland, Frisk was able to move at about three times the speed of lightning. Lightning is 1/3 the speed of light. Sans is faster than Frisk, which is why he was able to dodge their attacks, making him lightspeed.
But, if we’re not using that extreme lowball, he has immeasurable speed. As I mentioned before, his speed scales above Frisks’s, who, in the true pacifist route, was able to outspeed an attack called Hyper Goner, which was able to suck in and consume the infinite universe, in a couple of seconds. But, in the genocide route, they were able to move around in a completely timeless void (it’s timeless. That’s why we can’t reset), giving Frisk and Sans (and Chara too, but we’re not really including them here) immeasurable speed.
Sans isn't immesurable... That's what a lv 1 frisk with peak DT accomplished, A froggit would have immesurable speed and multiversal Attack Potency, which isn't the case lol. I mean, come on. We both know that a Froggit doesn't throw out flies that go immesurable speed beyond linear time. CHARA' "moved" in the timeless void you are mentioning, but if your mentioning that then Batter is immesurable as well, Judge should also be immesurable in speed to. Judge should be relative to sans if you count such blasphemous feat.
You mean the vulkin thing right? Doesn't make sense either because Vulkins lightning isn't jagged.
Second off, Tsunder Plane is going to be town level because of the Momentum of which it's attacks are going. Therefor using Vulkin as a primarily source for speed isn't correct.
Immeasurable Sans is certainly a funny joke, not even the skeleton himself could have thought of that.
The Frisk that accomplished that speed feat had peak DT, it's clearly not the standard speed at all. Unless you seriously want to say every UT haracter is immeasurable. Isn't the hyper goner the attack that almost no one ever dodges completely? Like damn near every play through I've watched it leaves the player with 1 HP.
Sans's best actual speed feat is scaling to Frisk's hypersonic meteor dodging, while The Judge is relativistic. If you want to give both the dubious sun speed feats (The Batter flying to the Sun, and Knight Knights Sun attack) The Judge is still faster.
@@nicolewhite3157 Frisk very likely had the same amount of DT due to both the nature of the fight, and due to the fact that it was the final boss.
On my first TP playthrough, I survived hyper goner with 18/20 HP, which was the same I went in with.
Frisk also was shown to move around in a void where time didn’t exist shortly after the fight, and should have the same speed during the Sans fight. The lowest I can almost reasonable lowball Sans is MFTL, since Frisk moved about 3X the speed of lightning during a regular battle, where they had significantly less DT than during the Sans fight.
@Mrsir529 ...?
Those are both different scenarios.
The reason why is TRUE pacifist frisk REFUSED to die on death to save THEIR friends.
Meanwhile a LV 1 frisk with a twig could barely kill Toriel.
So don't try and scale PRIME DT frisk up to everyone in the undertale cast, the verse which is small building at its best, (due to the consistent small building level feats), can't become 2-A.
@@Mrsir529What calc did you use for that? The only calc I've ever seen for the lightning dodging put it at Mach 3.
This matchup was always such a cool one. Indie games are always a treat, ever since I was introduced to them wayyyy back when I was in Grade School by playing Cave Story. Great episode! I don’t really agree with the reasons behind Sans winning, however. I still think Judge comes out on top like 9 times out of 10.
The time stop scenes you showed also aren’t actually time stop. The no turn thing is an attack that messes with the game mechanics, and that scene where the spotlight goes to them, thats not time stop thats just dramatic suspense and pause.
But that is a minor complaint to the overall episode!
The fights actually pretty debatable if you put them both at even speeds,but like thats the hard part.
Judge should just be light speed from the nothingness feat and while light speed Undertale is a thing it's definitely not agree on.
If you do put them both at light speed then it just comes down to "can judge just create attacks Sans can't dodge or can Sans avoid them at least briefly and destroy Pablo's soul
What's funny is that death battle themselves are also biased alot
So it's honestly arguably to sah wether or not a fanmade death battle is accurate or not
Frank West vs blitzo who would win a death battle
Blitzo
Been a while since I lost Helluva Boss but I’m confident enough to say Frank probably washes just from his sheer arsenal
Love the episode also does anyone happen to know what is playing at 14:31. Just curious
While I disagree I won't deny, this outcome could work. That's how I see it.
Good episode
2:07 wait is that bill?
I don't think anyone's translated it, but chances are it's probably something about how Bill didn't win the Tumblr sexyman tournament.
Couldn't use AI to replicate Wiz and Boomstick's voices?!
Love this the voice acting was top notch but I disagree with the verdict tho I kinda see the reason why sans still sans would win keep up the good work
Also, I was completely caught off guard with that conclusion, but you make some good points
Did you guys seriously work in a reference to that Stronger Than You Parody Song? Because if so, based 😂
I do not agree with this outcome at all. Amd it honestly confuses me how this conclusion was made. What's especially jarring is the lack of detail in The Judges analysis. There was no time taken to discuss what any of his competencies can do
Can you explain them, I have not played OFF so I think you explaining them would be easier
@alexgreer6336 He has paralysis, hax negation, poison, he can mess with senses like hearing and sight, he can turn off the use of special abilities, durability negation, soul manipulation, and light speed travel. So the tldr of this debate is that everything Sans has, Pablo also has, while also being able to resist and negate all of Sans's weapons and abilities.
@@thecrusader2784 Yeah, still can't tell if this one or Anne vs Luz is worse, because they said that the titans scale to the archivists, but in reality they just have anti-hax over them
@@alexgreer6336 I've always hated that argument.
One of the weirdest things is completely ignoring the possibility relativistic reaction speeds, it essentially boils down to "nu-uh".
How could a reactionary feat only be a "side effect" anyway? And don't get me started on the "Pablo would only have 20 HP" it was stupid in the original reddit post that brought it up, and it's stupid here.
Every time Fan battle does a MU that is a MU that gets requested for Death battle a lot this is most likely going to be a MU that no one knows and is almost never requested. (Like Moro vs Tirek having someone only in the manga)
I'm going to go ahead and point out some grievances I have with this result.
"Pablo can't move at lightspeed without the nothingness, and it's likely relativistic reaction speeds are a side effect of the realm".
I fail to see how Pablo shouldn't have relativistic reaction speeds, yes everything moves light speed there, but The Batter (and by extension Pablo) still needs see, perceive, and react to the realm. There's not any evidence that the nothingness buffs reaction speed, and it seems safer to say it doesn't considering we're here to take characters at their peak.
Now most of the corner boxes are fine, but there's one in particular that I don't agree with.
"seeing as Pablo has never killed anyone he'd have a very low LV and by extension lo soul HP"
Uh, no? That's applying Undertales logic to a character who follows a completely different set of mechanics. For this to work the fight would have to take place in the Undertale world, but for the sake of the debate they're placed on neutral ground. So this just doesn't work.
If we were to do the same and have Sans go OFF's play book Then, oh shit. OFF has a completely different combat system that completely fucks Sans over, whoops guess he gets one shot.
Now all of that being said. This is one of my most wanted matchups, and I was giddy the entire way through seeing it done Justice. Even with a result I disagree with, this has everything I would want to see in the actual episode of DB ever gets around to doing it.
The personality clash, Sans being a troll (particularly with the ketchup fake-out), a cool setup. The abilities play off of each other nicely, and overall it's fun. You did a really good job on this episode.
I also disagree with the speed debunk but I also see their though process. I'm more lenient towards giving judge light speed because there's nothing indicating perception gets enhanced in the nothingness though.
As for the corner box this is also kinda dumb. I think the intention was to just explain why Sans's soul hax could win despite the gap in strength but it's wrong to just throw Pablo into Undertale rules and Call it a day. The corner box should've been something like "While it's impossible to lock exact numbers on how durable Pablo's souls would be all the matters is that it doesn't scale to his regular durability and Sans would be able to destroy it over time" or something like that.
I also kind of disagree with the whole “He can bypass Pablo’s soul” and “He can stop time” thing too considering those things are VERY up for interpretation and also just.. not really fair? By that logic we may as well take Pablo’s attack names literal too which basically just means he can wash Sans even easier due to being able to inflict LITERAL ANEURYSMS onto others. Which even then can still be debated as something in his possibility if you buy the whole “Specters and Judge represent Hugo’s illness” theory
Madeline VS Meggy (Celeste VS Sunset Paradise) | FAN BATTLE
Looks like the Judge had a bad time. Good job!
We know the judge is gonna win right?
This aged well
@@tristanwaits5688 Tbf, it just came down to "Who would they buy as faster?"
@@Annihilate0405 Yeah. And they didnt cout that sans gets tired easily
But sans won
@@user-ICY-Andreid, they did, but Sans can dodge attacks in his sleep, so that didn't matter much
This was an interesting video with judgement at hand
I’ve even reacted to this video
Indie characters are always hard to scale, but I guess this makes sense...kinda
One of the matches from the tournament of champions
How very, very interesting
What is this theme
FAN BATTLE! What Advantage and Disadvantage?
The judge
+was stronger
+more durable
-has less opinions for ending the fight
-slower
-dosent have a defense against soul damage
Sans
+has more options
+faster
+can spam his attacks
+can teleport so it would be difficult for judge to land a hit
-way less durable
ayyyyy, Sans won. About time, most of the time I've seen this matchup, the Judge is always given the win. Nice to hear the other side for once.
It's because everyone seems to prioritise speed over everything else nowadays, plus probably not understanding how Soul Magic works.
@@antonitocotter447 No, not really. Sans's bones are intangible and they do go for the soul. But pablo can interact with intangibility. And he could also, y'know. Go at FTL speeds.
Pretty much just explodes sans and gets the job done.
What I want to see is an undertale protagonist using magic.
Its kinda sad that every one shifts the blame onto chara forgetting that you are the one that dose everything. Chara even says it themselves.
Cant be helped thogh fannon has become way more well known than cannon i mean just look at gaster
For the love of Jebeddahia please make a madness combat one
I absolutely adored this episode, I'm a huge fan of both games so seeing 2 of my favorite characters from those games on the show was a treat
no way i missed the livestream
maybe next time spring trap vs the man in the suit
So...
Sans
+Much Faster
+Superior arsenal and teleportation could keep Pablo at distance
+Soul Manipulation bypassed Pablo's durability
-Much weaker
The Judge
+Much more powerful
+Insta Kill Options...
-...But too slow to pull them off
-Less versatile arsenal
-Vulnerable to Soul Manipulation
No, not really sans IS mach 8.
The judge is MFTL, he washes.
If you dont use the judge's MFTL feat? The judge would probably use his thought based mind attack that doesn't travel distance against sans and proceed to explode him.
Pretty much who attacks first.
(Personally I believe in Judge being MFTL, but ehhhh... iffy.)
Sans could slam him down and insta-kill him maybe.
The connections between Sans and The Judge are:
Both are white, short-stature, seemingly weak but actually powerful as f*ck characters From Similar Video Games who can break the fourth wall and are mysterious and tricksters or mischievous
If you do something in the wrong way, they are characters who can stomp you down if you do something wrong in a Truly Bad-Time
They end fighting and being a hard challenge to a emotion-less protagonist who has murdered people (Frisk and The Batter), willing to help you at the start through the Game, but at the end they end judging and beating the crap out of you.
The fight should be in sprites
The name for the CAC should be Karmic Judge.
so here we are again, great episode i do say but..
the godamn electricity lightning stuff which is openly wrong, characters like metaton who use electricity are one frame shots, meaning electricity and magic do not move at the same speed.
nore does any other magic in this case, not to mention you sadly didn't go over the other light speed stuff.
ignoring the absolute stomp that is ap, what you didn't account for was the fact that the electricity feats are inherntly wrong intirely.
(also the fact that theirs no proof for judges attacks needing to be focused, as in the fight with batter judge will always hit no matter what.)
My rating for this episode 7/10
Conclusion
The episode had be at the edge of my seat, the explanations were great and had a lot of character put into it.
obvious research was shown here within the fight and analysis.
Ending status: Wrong.
I can understand disagreeing with the winner since judge is the agreed upon winner,
But I don't fully see what you're saying on the electricity thing like they scaled Sans to lighting dodging not electricity dodging,and with the Metaton thing like you need to factor in that undertale has to have a story and gameplay for the person playing to enjoy.
I just see the electricity thing as just gameplay animation being faulty just to fit the gameplay being played
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz my point is, metaton uses electricity something that moves much slower than lightning, which in this case is backed up to be real electricity, take the metaton quiz, if you choose it wrong you get shocked, which is a one frame blast that cannot be dodged, meaning hypersonic sans is bullshit, also them excluding uni off kinda stinks but whateva, anyways, in the purafied zones are stated to have an absence of space time, making imm off a valid option.
which idk bout you is like a maybe a smidge faster than hypersonic even if you believe such a thing
@@Cryptized To me something being animated has to be ignored in a debate as nothing in most games is animated how it should be logically like just because it LOOKS slow doesn't mean it IS slow because Undertale to be playable has to dial back how accurate the speed is to function. if you want to use animation then a fly from froggit is quicker then asriels hypergoner.
As for uni OFF I'm not the most sure about it but the only potential uni feat I know is that it's said the queen could undo all the damage done to the zones,except this is vague and it's also said the queen would need help and time to do this.
Also imm OFF seems a bit much since that could just also mean "there is no speed so nothing to calculate on how fast stuff is"
@@Actuallycorrect-eu5uz you've missread what i have sent, im not talking about animation, im talking about speed, you cannot react to electricity which is slower than lightning so why would you be able to dodge lightning, its a walking contradiction, example:
im running at a pace of 800 mph, but then i get outsped by a car going 40 mph, in this case we assume the last feat, the 800 mph one is an outlieir, and in this case multiple outliars, frisk cant dodge electricity for 5 times, meaning the lightning is wrong, and shouldn't be moving at lightning speeds, meaning judge should have a huge speed advantage in this case.
@@CryptizedI'm still not sold on the thought process like I did misunderstand what you said earlier but I don't think Metaton's electricity is anything more then an anti-feat at best because it's more then likely enforced by gameplay and NOT LETTING frisk dodge the electricity not that frisk CAN'T dodge the electricity. Like the context is that Metaton has forced frisk to play by his game shows rules and the entire gameshow is just there because it's part of the story. Like I don't know if I'm phrasing this correctly but I am trying to say "it's story driven and not an accurate representation of what frisk can do"
Metaton EX literally attacks frisk with electricity later and they can dodge it just fine and Sans has feats he does himself that are faster then electricity timing. So I just see the Metaton gameshow as gameplay at worst and an anti-feat at best
Here’s a quick debunk:
Your main point on why sans wins is speed, but if by your logic sans can’t use KR then there would be no reason that would be a problem for the judge.
Also, lightning speed scale is a highball (not a massive one as 99% of undertale scaling is interpretation).
For 1, asriel and vulkins lightning are extremely different, as Asriels is instant and vulkins is slow. So what I’m getting at is that we don’t know whether it’s actual lightning or just magic. And considering in both undertale and deltarune there’s more varying speeds of lightning it’s safe to assume vulkins is just another magic attack.
Also, sans can’t time stop
Sans isn't MHS, but he IS hypersonic in speed.
Remember that time when frisk dodged knight knight's meteors? They were mach 4... but using 4 sea teas makes sans mach 8.
Judge is at FTL, and and is universal, So I don't know how judge lost.
@@Awesomedude20-z8x saying Judge is FTL and Universal is a joke not even Sans would be able to come up with. saying Undertale scaling is interpretive then using the nothingness to scale reaction speed is genuinely baffling. also Uni AP/Dura wouldn't matter since Sans bypasses dura and dies in one hit anyways, plus Hugo doesn't actually do anything to defend himself so that scaling is OFF anyways (ba dum tss)
KR and being able to bypass INV frames are 2 different things if that's what you're getting at, with removing KR not really doing anything as it would still take the same amount of time with or without them
Asriel is a god that can manipulate space time, you really think he can't just make lightning faster? also saying it should be slower due to being made of magic is flawed since we have no idea how fast "magic lightning" is so just comparing it to real lightning is the best solution
Sans' time stop doesn't actually affect the fight at all
@@helton1812How in the hell is using the Nothingness to scale reaction speeds baffling?
The way the map is setup does not necessarily harm the feat. Nothingness encompasses all the zones, even the Sun. The users of Nothingness still have to move around and guide themselves to any of the zones, they do not automatically get sent to them. Judge notes he frequently uses it, which makes sense as he goes to zone 1 and 2. Likewise, Batter still has to react to himself going at light speed to access the correct Zone.
The best piece of evidence that the Nothingness movement is actually a feat is the Room. The Room uses a cursor to showcase the movement, while the Nothingness has the actual Batter moving instead of an icon. The fact is that there exists a similar world map feat which DOESN’T use the Batter, and instead uses a more generalized cursor, which could’ve been done for the Nothingness if desired. The Batter is actually moving in Nothingness, it is not usage of the Batter to just bring them from point a to point b. Given he has to react while moving at light speed, he needs relativistic reactions to pull off zone travel.
Now I agree with you that The Judge isn't FTL, he only has relativistic reaction speeds. But that's still *WAY* faster than the only hypersonic Sans. Also yes, universal OFF is fucking stupid lol.
@@nicolewhite3157 mainly cause there’s literally nothing there to react to
Boomstick(even if it's not really the real one) would get along with sans
Especially IUTWR!sans by smashbits
There are 4 VS Battle I would always want to be done; And I would like for you to choose one:
A. Ginormica VS Starscream (Monsters vs Aliens movie, series, and games .VS Transformers Prime series, specials, and games. No Robots in Disguise power-ups)
B. Laura Croft VS Captain Rex (Tomb Raider VS Star War)
C. Sigma VS Uravaity ( Overwatch VS My Hero Academia, The Duality of Mid-Tier gravity users)
D. Alma Wade vs Yoriko Omega (FEAR vs Red Alert)
Foxy vs V (Five nights at freddy's vs Murder drones) please I beg you with all my soul 🙏
Keep on requesting and one day he may do it.
Say, can you do a request from me.
Can you do a fight between team rwby vs the ninja turtles.
That would be good.
Po vs. MK (Kung Fu Panda vs. Monkie Kid)
Dan vs Suction Cup Man (Dan Vs. vs Suction cup man)
Please Ideas
Hearts vs Anos
(Dragon Ball vs Misfit of Demon King Academy)
discord vs the collector (my little pony vs the owl house)
Kind of a stomp for Discord tbh
Sekiro vs Scorpion(Sekiro Shadows Die Twice vs Mortal Kombat)
...Ok the next match up was not what I expected...
Still want Adam (Hazbin Hotel) VS Homelander (The Boys) though
I agree since cat guy aka Pablo (who I will call cat) doesn’t has knowledge of Sans moves especially the blue ones and dodging (possibly but probably not) and cat is gullible probably more than most humans basically cats main weakness is sans greatest strength so yeah most likely sans takes the w
Na wrong the judge win 😂
Do you have to be disrespectful about it?
Man I hope the next fallout match hope we get Frank horrugin versus atom smasher that is my dream matchup
SpongeBob SquarePants (Nickelodeon) Vs Felix the cat
That was not a fight
Bc of the script?
Idc who wins I just hope this is fire