A Book Award Rant and a Friday Reads
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- This is a bit of an unusual Friday Reads because I will talk about what I've been reading, but I'm also going to spend some time talking about an issue I have with the conversation around book prizes. Expand for more information 👇
Links 💻
Join the LGBTQ in Translation Readalong on the Discord server: / discord
Further Viewing 🎥
Pulitzer Prize Reaction: • Pulitzer Prize for Fic...
Pulitzer Prize Takeaways: • Pulitzer Prize for Fic...
What Happened to the Pulitzer Prize in 2012: • Do Book Prizes Owe Us ...
Last Friday Reads: • Friday Reads: What a W...
Titles Mentioned 📚
A Good Scent From a Strange Mountain, Robert Olen Butler
The Love Songs of W.E.B. Du Bois, Honorée Fannone Jeffers
The Netanyahus, Joshua Cohen
Beloved, Toni Morrison
Less, Andrew Sean Greer
Train Dreams, Denis Johnson
Before Night Falls, Reinaldo Arenas (translated by Dolores M. Koch)
Disoriental, Négar Djavadi (translated by Tina Kover)
Remarkably Bright Creatures, Shelby Van Pelt
Solo Dance, Li Kotomi (translated by Arthur Reiji Morris)
My husband made a cookbook! Check it out here:
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Email: supposedlyfungreg-at-gmail.com
Storygraph: app.thestorygr...
Instagram: / supposedlyfun
Twitter: / supposedlyfun
Website: supposedlyfun....
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! for this video! People don't realise how important this topic is. I just hate when people feel like books by black authors aren't winning because they aren't as good and that's just not true. There's also another aspect you have to consider and that's the role publishers play in pushing the books they want to win to certain prizes. They too are guilty of being the reason some books win certain prizes. Reading wisely is key to "finding the best book" and that's just not happening as a whole. Not to mention the climate we're living through in the US doesn't help.
Absolutely--authors are marginalized at so many different stages of the publication process, from gatekeeping to get in the door to a lack of support in marketing and publicity. Publishing has made great improvements but there is so much more to be done. Major bookstores as well--they tend to only really promote the largest books and authors, which is usually not diverse. Indie stores tend to have much better focus (but are not perfect either).
I want to love The Pulitzer, but the lack of diversity, particularly of women, has been a stop sign for me. I prefer The National Book Award. I find amazing reads in both fiction and non-fiction. They offer a wide range of experiences that are not my own and it has been diverse. At least for now.
The National Book Award is a perfect example of a major literary prize that has embraced diversity in recent years. I applaud what they’ve accomplished.
I have been meaning to comment on the last several of your videos, but since you are beating yourself up pretty hard in this one, I figured I'd chime in. I caught the Colin Whitehead omission but just put it down to a post-Covid brain fart. Just let it go. (Good advice for farts, brain or otherwise.) I just wanted to say how much I have been enjoying your videos lately. It would be condescending for me to say that you just keep getting better (because who am I to judge?) but that is how I feel. Your vids are always must watch for me, as soon as I spot them. Don't let the rude commenters slow you down.
I am not nearly as well-read as you, nor am I a Pulitzer aficionado, so a lot of the time you are discussing books I've never read or heard of, but the discussion is always interesting. I am definitely going to try "Train Dreams". I LOVED "Small Things Like These" by Claire Keegan which I probably never would have picked up except for you raving about it. As soon as I finished it, I pressed it on a friend, a retired librarian who had never heard of it. She, likewise, loved it and is talking it up to everybody she knows. So thanks for making me look like a star in front of Book Club Betty.
This is rambly, sorry. Just wanted to say you are doing great stuff here and you should worry less about getting it perfect. We none of us are.
Sorry you are still dealing with the headaches. Hope you are well soon.
I totally agree with every word you have written. The picks Greg talks about are slightly high brow for me but now and again I find a gem on his vids. Cheers.
Thank you both so much. I really appreciate the kind words--they mean a lot!
Nina, I hope you enjoy Train Dreams. I think it stands up alongside Small Things Like These.
I think fundamentally the issue with “just find the best book” is as you said, most people on these judging boards have grown up with, immersed themselves in and continue to specialize with fiction that has a distinctly western style of storytelling with an emphasis on white or western life that in the event a novel comes their way that takes inspiration from writing styles beyond western culture and imagination that novel becomes inherently “difficult” or “not what they’re looking for.” The “best” novel will often be something that breaks tradition form but still does it in a western way. It’s why I believe Akwaeke Emezi has all been but blacklisted from prizes after the Womens Prize fiasco.
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There are so many styles of novel that could be prize-worthy. We've been taught to dismiss a lot of them outright, and it's a shame.
i think you're bringing up lots of valid and important points on diversity and what constitutes a good book esp as judges will have biases, both conscious and subconscious, that will play a role in their ultimate decision
Thanks! It’s hard to fault a single person since the jury changes every year but when the overall result is what it is, it still merits discussion because something has to be happening.
This was a very rich video and I am glad you allowed yourself to run long and go into this topic in more detail. It needs a nuanced explanation. It's not about dismissing the work of white male authors but wanting to broaden the range and variety of the books that get the attention a big prize brings. It about more not less.
Thank you! That is exactly what I wanted to say but so much more succinct and clear (how ironic 😉). ❤️
I think your comments are right on the mark. I also agree with you about Less. I was very disappointed in it and wasn't particularly amused by it.
Thank you! I did find Less to be amusing, but I don't think it had any heft to it.
It had already won the award when I read it. My first thought after finishing it was that this is a gay novel that straights can feel comfortable admiring.
@@paulsomerville4005 I do appreciate that there hasn't been a whole lot of media about gay men of a certain age, but still...
Can't wait to hear your thoughts about Solo Dance next week!
Thank you! I just finished it last night.
I think you are absolutely correct about the literary awards, the Pulitzer and the Nobel. I also agree with your assessment of "Sing, Unburied, Sing". Jesmyn Ward is one of my favorite living authors.
In my personal reading life, I have made it a point to try to read more diversely, looking at titles from around the world, and it has been a wonderful experience. I have been particularly been enjoying some contemporary Japanese literature, authors like Mieko Kawakami, Natsuko Imamura, Banana Yoshimoto.
In terms of the Pulitzer, I think it is important to keep expanding the definition of what "American Life" means, and have judges that reflect a wide background of "American Life".
I've been reading a lot more translated literature this year and it's been a great experience so far. I still need to get to Banana Yoshimoto and Mieko Kawakami, though.
And I definitely agree that expanding the definition of what constitutes American Life will only make it more accurate and representative.
Loved "Train Dreams" and love whatever Will Patton reads; so this looks like the ultimate for me.
Oh wow, it’s perfect for you!
love this channel. thank you!
Thank you so much!
Excellent rant about subjectivity and diversity! It makes me smile that you are such a fierce advocate for TLSoWEBDB even though you are only halfway through the book.
I’m so excited to dive back into it, but I also want to make it last.
@@SupposedlyFun I feel that way about Ali Smith’s Companion Piece. I’ve only read a few paragraphs but already I am worried about making it last. I don’t want it to be over.
@@lindysmagpiereads It's nice to find reads like that!
Really excellent discussion about diversity in book prizes. The statistics for the Pulitzer speak for themselves.
Thank you!
Love the awards talk.
People say awards shouldn’t be political or should just be about merit. But merit is impossible to judge when it comes to something as subjective as literature. To say it’s about merit is to not interrogate your own biases because what you say deserves to win is informed by your own worldview.
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Hi Greg, just want to apologise for my comment on your video last week. You were right; it was offensive and stupid of me not to realise this.
This video is spot on and I agree with all you’re saying. It’s very well explained and would be difficult to argue against any of the points made. Diversity is a real issue with the Pulitzer and I’m glad you’ve opened my eyes to it. It is unfair, to say the least, that the books you have mentioned didn’t get the recognition they deserve and I now have more books to try as a result of this videos.
Your work is always on point and the reviews are really well thought out. Keep up the good work.
Thank you--I'm glad we reached an agreement. It's a very tough conversation to have for a lot of reasons, and I do understand that. ❤️ 🥂
@@SupposedlyFun To be honest, you touched on many things in this video which I haven’t even thought of before so it was a lesson learned for me. Which is what I love best about your videos, I’m always learning things from them! This is why it’s a good thing that you touch upon other topics within the book reviews. Important and serious issues which need addressed. Your idea of diversifying the Pulitzer makes so much sense as I can imagine many books by marginalised authors are much better than many prize winning books and it is totally unfair that they’re largely ignored. The quality of Pulitzer winners would improve, and that’s no dig at previous winners.
I’m now looking forward to reading The Secret Lives Of Church Ladies and Sing Unburried, Sing. You made me think about this problem in a much broader way. Your erudite and articulate reviews are brilliant and your fan base will grow because of it. Thanks Greg!
@@irena7777777 The tricky thing is that most of the major literary awards (Pulitzer, Booker, and Women's Prize) have a different jury every year. Inevitably, different tastes and opinions on what is great come into play. I don't think any jury goes in thinking they will be unfair, but when you can zoom out and see so many omissions over time, it tells an interesting story about what type of literature is valued--and what type is not.
@@SupposedlyFun Absolutely. This is exactly what you’ve highlighted to me. It goes deeper than how I viewed it. African American writers of both sex’s have shown in recent years that they are every bit as good as white male writers and better in some cases. The problem there is that’s in recent years. How many great books by African American authors from decades ago have been cast aside and forgotten about? I hope we see more and more awarded in the future.
Incidentally, who do you think will win the Women’s Prize For Fiction? I’m looking forward to that being announced
@@irena7777777 I feel like it's going to be between Shafak and Shipstead. I haven't read the Shafak yet so I may be biased, but I would like to see Great Circle land something before it ages out of eligibility for major prizes. But I'm actually rooting for Lisa Allen-Agostini, because The Bread the Devil Knead is the one I'm most excited to read.
I think your Pulitzer comments are spot on. I'm too lazy right now to look up whether An American Marriage was a finalist but I thought of that book also during your comments about Black authors, especially women.
An American Marriage won the Women's Prize and didn't factor into the Pulitzer finalists for that year.
THANK you.
❤️ ❤️
Yes - thank you for calling this out!!! This is so important for us to talk about - and fo folks to recognize implicit and systemic bias. Thanks!
and I'd go with your alternate picks too :)
I understand what you're saying and agree with you 💯... thanks for having the conversation ❤️🙏
Thank you for watching!
I completely get the purpose of the Women’s Prize. Women are historically overlooked. However I heard “women’s literature” in the conversation. I think that phrase can be misleading. When I hear it I think “chick lit”. Prize level fiction written by women, about women’s stories, is simply fiction. Too many prizes delineate between genders, races, sexualities, etc. Prize boards are long entrenched institutions with very slow growth in perspective. Changes are long overdue.
I agree. It would be much better if a book by a woman was just treated like... a book.
Great points! You also just listed some of my all time favorite books and authors! I love Jesmyn Ward (although I think I liked Salvage the Bones a bit more than Sing Unburied Sing (too much vomit in this book lol)) and The Good Lord Bird is one of my favorite books and it's never talked about on Booktube. Deacon King Kong also deserved awards imo. I also LOVE Homegoing and can't believe it didnt win every award out there! Colson Whitehead is a genius! I never thought about how if Less was written by a woman it would not have been taken as seriously, which I 100% agree with! I also liked Less. Less was one of the first pulitzer prize winners I read so I didn't have a great idea of what was worthy of it. I will say that Less was one of the first books I read with LGBT characters! I wish the Pulitzer could be awarded to multiple books a year because there's so many books deserving of recognition that get very little.
I love that you can even do layers with your independent bookstore collection.
I should put on my Montana Book Company baseball cap in the next one! 😂
Michael Urie as an octopus sounds amazing, but likely predicting too sad for the current times. Love your rant on context and critique of presence of diversity.
Thank you! Urie is very good. I ended up not finishing the book, though. Not because it was sad but because one of the other characters was really getting on my nerves. More in the next Friday Reads!
MI is the same. I started off this morning with a hoodie and yesterday it got to 88. Good video and reminder. Many books have been added to my list now and I TY.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy any you pick up.
I am so grateful to you for this rant and these videos. What a lot of criticism about diversity ignores is the gatekeeping that has gone on to exclude BIPOC authors in the first place. How can a prize that considers American life not involve race or the diversity that makes up the fabric of U.S. history? Yes, these prizes are subjective but that is also a lazy and dismissive excuse for the jurors not seeking out books that represent the true range of excellent writing about American life. Most say they read read widely but only diverse authors from big publishing houses or with a lot of buzz. BIPOC authors have always seen too little of themselves reflected in literature and still manage to pursue it. BIPOC readers don’t see enough of their stories either and still read, love and support these books and respect these prizes.
I have read Less and I was upset by it having won.
Also, I appreciate your correcting the record on the winners. I own all the books mentioned and distractedly missed it too. You are such a conscientious RUclipsr and I appreciate all the thought and effort you put into the content you make regarding this. That your opinions are viewed “controversial” shows that strides still need to be made and that Americans are still not reconciled on how racism and other “isms” still function to silence and marginalize what is now the majority of American voices.
Thank you so much. I try to be open and accurate but mistakes happen.
I totally agree that there is a great deal of gatekeeping that most people either don't notice or aren't aware of. And if we don't talk about it, it will continue as is. Which would be an enormous shame. Life is so much more interesting if you get out of the box. 😉
The Miles Franklin award for Australian fiction longlist is coming up soon, and I always try to read some of those and usually it does include diverse authors, but we'll see what gets listed this year.
I always want to follow that prize and it sneaks up on me so by the time I catch on it's already over. Thanks for the heads up.
I completely agree with you about those four books that were much better than the Pulitzer winners of those years.
I’m glad I’m not alone!
Have I mentioned before that I love your Pulitzer series videos? Yes, I have, but it bears repeating! Regarding your omission of Colson Whitehead in your last video, you had been talking about him at about the 16:30 mark so obviously you know about him and he just slipped your mind, a mistake anyone could make.
Thank you--I appreciate the understanding.
This was one of your best videos ever!
Wow-thank you!
Thank you for your very thoughtful Pulitzer comments! I agree with you for the most part. I definitely agree that Andrew Sean Greers book should not have won!
Thank you for watching!
Very well said Greg 👏
Thank you so much!
Thank you for featuring Solo Dance. I am currently on a run of Japanese authors so this will be a good fit. Really like Murakami and Higashino.
I finished Solo Dance last night. Not too sure about the ending but I'll think about it more and revisit in my next Friday Reads.
Having read The Netanyahus (and thoroughly enjoyed it) and after listening to your praise for The Love Songs of W.E.B. DuBois over several of your videos, I cannot imagine a world where you think the Netanyahus deserved the prize. I expect to start reading Love Songs this coming week and I hope I agree with your assessment.
I don't know when the copy of The Netanyahus that I ordered will arrive, but I do look forward to reading it for a more well-rounded assessment of the Pulitzer year. I hope you enjoy Love Songs!
@@SupposedlyFun I just finished it yesterday. While the book is very good, it's certainly not as great as all the reviews seem to indicate. After reading those many glowing reviews (and the fact that Jeffers is a poet), I was expecting something closer to Toni Morrison or Colson Whitehead crossed with the epic nature of Alex Haley's Roots. I thought it fell short of that. While the book explores the multi-generational impact of race, racism, colorism, sexism, colonialism, class, memory (national and personal), etc., it doesn't really say anything new about any of those things. Instead, Jeffers constructed a family history that merely intersects with or incorporates all those things mentioned, without saying anything that actually gave me pause to reconsider my relationship with any of those themes...and isn't that what a great novel should do?
Completely agree with your comments regarding diversity in literature prizes. I'm sure The Netanyahus is good but there are books by diverse authors that equally deserve the prize. I am glad Palmares was a finalist as it brought a book by a black woman to the attention of readers, but I would rather TLSofWEBD had been awarded the prize. I am still waiting on the first female Latinx author to win.
Yes, it will be very interesting to see when a female Latinx author finally gets recognized. Hopefully soon!
Great points Greg but I also want to put some of my thought here for discussion too.
When you mentioned the case of Love song topic and how it can affect the "literary appreciation" of it, you point out that it failed to make the longlist for the Women prize, which I have to disagree. The Women prize I think is quite famous for having honored book by female author from different background and many books even have much more kitchen table topics then Love song (even toward the gossip side of story telling) then I dont think the topic is the cause here. I think it just the case of what subjective discussion happened and taste of the judges are the deciding factors. Not to mention Love song did win the national book critics circle award (while the Netanyahus is one of the finalists) so again it did received critical awards, just not the pulitzer. (The same go for the 3 others case you have mentioned with winning different awards). So we can also make the point of difference in the opinions and tastes of each set of judges in each award here.
In the end I think beside this conversations of award need to do better with diversity, we can also shift the conversation to do not give the Pulitzer the defining top award power, we can spread the attention and enthusiasm to different awards in the fields that you guys think have honored the book that match your values and tastes. Dont let the Pulitzer become the only award representing for American literature, in this way I think we can encourage diversity so much more.
P.S: and just an add in, there is actually 1 title in the finalist by an black woman author and write about black woman experience (but not receive half as much as Love Song) so although I would love for Love Song to win, i think instead of questioning why it did not make it, why cant we give the spotlight and discuss the one that actually the make to the finalist.
Really appreciated if anyone can give your thoughts in this ^^
I would say the the Women's Prize largely does well in terms of diversity (especially recently), but like most major literary awards, the winners are still predominantly white. But the reason I mentioned the Women's Prize snub of Love Songs in particular is that Love Songs is very specifically a book that celebrates things (in a pointed way) that have not been traditionally recognized as "worthy" by literary circles. Critics have appreciated this book (again, the critics of the New York Times Book Review named it one of their ten best of 2021), so I'm not altogether surprised that Jeffers won the National Book Critics Circle prize. The fact that this recognition hasn't translated to other, less critic-centric prizes is what I find interesting (and worth noting).
The other thing I find interesting, which I didn't find a lot of time on in this video but may revisit in my next Friday reads, is that 4 out of the 6 novels by black authors that have won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction centered around slavery--and a fifth was very specifically about Jim Crowe-era abuse and murder of young black men. The finalist from this year that you mentioned is definitely worth talking about (I genuinely hope more people read it, and I plan to be one of those people who picks it up), but it fits that demographic in that it's about slavery. This begs the question: do literary circles only value black authors when they write about slavery? Love Songs is categorically not centered on slavery, but it is about the systemic racism of this country--perhaps a less palatable topic for many.
I do think spreading attention to other prizes could be worthwhile, but the problem is that awards like the Pulitzer have an insurmountable reputation as a tastemaker, and they will continue to do so. Leaving them alone without fixing the problem is not ultimately going to solve anything.
Love the rant.
Thank you!
Great Video! Thank you! BTW, I love "The Love Songs of W. B. E. Dubois."
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed Love Songs.
Ok, there a lot going on here so hopefully I’ll be coherent.
The Netanyahu’s was good, very good actually; and definitely deserves a place as the finalist. But Love Songs (to me) was far better.
I’ve finished Monkey Boy one of the other finalists and it was really just ok. A 3 star read and I do not think it should have been on the list.
Finished Before Night Falls and it was just ok, didn’t enrich my life in any meaningful way but not sad that I read it.
Lastly, I am so confused about the discord server. So I am not really participating with that chat there but am enjoying the read alongs
Monkey Boy is the one of the three I find least interesting, so that's good to know. I think I'm helped a lot on Discord because my previous job had a Slack group and I had to get introduced to a chat room with lots of functions and different rooms. It's not my favorite thing, though.
Amazing video, I agree fully.
Thanks!
Love watching a fellow readers info & lowdown on The Booker, Pulitzer & Nobel. I don’t think we agree on The Matrix -L. Goff. Her writing is very good but I suggest the subject matter is pure misandrist B.S. This is the first book that you suggested that made me sorry I spent my time reading.
Sorry you didn’t like it! I guess we were bound to disagree at some point.
I thought your "rant" balanced and generally fair. There has been an improvement as you noted but I certainly share your disappointment with the overlooking of Ms. Jeffers which, in truth, was even more egregious in the case of the Women's Prize longlist omission. I would have definitely have shortlisted it for the Pulitzer along with two other women although I may have chosen another one. Diversity of awards have more chance to be achieved by ensuring a diversity of selection in the judging panels. Should result in a more balanced outcome.
Great video.
Thank you! It really does boggle my mind that Jeffers didn't even make the longlist for the Women's Prize. I'll always be pondering that omission.
Maybe it’s the translation of Before Night Falls? Best books I’ve read so far this year are
Foster by Claire Keegan( now made into an Irish language film)
Devotion by Hannah Kent
☘️👋🍀📚📖☕️📕
It could be the translation-hadn’t considered that.
Good morning. I read Before Night Falls. I didn't enjoy this book. I am wondering if I knew more Cuban history would it have been a better book. I want to read Cuba: An American History and maybe I will re-read it. I also read Intimacies by Katie Kitamura. Now I'm reading The Island of Missing Trees. I am really enjoying this novel. It may become my favorite for the Women's Prize.
Cuba: An American History sounds fascinating. I need to get to Intimacies. I’ve heard great things about it.
This reminds me that I need to give Lonesome Dove a chance.
edit: and Colson Whitehead
I recommend both!
I DNFed The Goldfinch, too!
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It sounds like at least for the Pulitzer that jury selection is the most defining part of the selection of the books for the prize. So how is the jury selected?
That is a great question and I do not have an answer. I assume the Board selects the jurors but that's a guess.
I couldn't find the audio on Scribd just the book.
Scribd can be very weird like that. Sorry it wasn't available for you.