Hi Paul, This was my question. Eyes closed don't make a difference. You are correct, moving the speakers further into the room was not really an option and also moving the listening position back would cause a lolly pole holding up the house to be in front of the listening position. So, I followed your advice and placed a pair of abfusers on the front wall behind the left and right speakers and the depth of the soundstage has improved tremendously. Thank you for the suggestion.
Also, I would try angling the speakers, so they’re facing forward or straight out into the room. Sometimes a certain degree of adjustment with the speakers angle can help create more depth to soundstage.
You make a very significant point that is too often overlooked- the relationship between SIGHT & SOUND. Listening in the dark HEIGHTENS our auditory senses, stripping away the visual "noise" and focussing our concentration on the sound.
I've really enjoyed your book (The Audiophile's Guide) , Paul. It's been a real plus on my journey to both understanding sound and getting the best from my gear. Your channel has really got me thinking about both vintage and contemporary gear and getting the sound experience I'm looking for.
Your ears are telling you the sound is behind the wall but your eyes just see a wall and it ruins the illusion. I didn’t like the look of diffusers and sound absorption panels on the front wall so I put curtains up,I found this really helped making the illusion that there was space behind them.
Yes a Focal owner! I have the Audiophile's Guide too! I had the same problem with my Sopra No 3's. Mine came more to life when I pulled them 5 ft away from the front wall, aprox 4 feet from the side walls, and I toed them 10 degrees for some added soundstage width. My ceilings are 12ft tall.
For me eyes closed doesnt really enhance the experience, but what does is to completely black out the room, not a single LED visible just darkness, and sit with my eyes open in that darkness. That is really immersive for me.
I made 3 acoustic panels from rockwool slabs and placed them on the rear wall behind me. I also made an attractive diffuser from wooden blocks glued to a board. I also made a couple of nice, smaller acoustic panels with complimentary fabrics. Experimenting with heavy curtains, books on shelves and rugs helps as does keeping hard surfaces such as coffee tables, mirrors, glazed pictures etc away from early reflections. A good tip I used when setting up my home recording studio was to have someone hold a mirror and slide this along the side wall as I sat in my listening position. When the reflection of the opposite speaker comes into view, THAT is a prime location to add an acoustic panel. Repeat for the opposite side. I experiment with toe in as a 10mm movement can give you a bigger upgrade than servicing your amp!
I am still absolutely baffled that I was able to produce a nice soundstage in the very small room I have my system in. Thanks to Paul and his guidance.
In my fairly small listening area/TV room, my towers sound awesome to me, though very forward up front sounding. I was messing around with just having a pair of bookies setup and much to my surprise, I experienced a bit deeper of a soundstage. The little JBL Control Ones managed to outperform my towers in this one instance. So perhaps give a smaller speaker a try and see.
That works here. I considered replacing my 1980s Dutch Translator Impact 5 towers with Kef LS50 Metas on stands, then I realized the towers have the same height as those stands. So why not use the towers as stands? I tried it and the enhanced 4-speaker system now has great soundstage. A better result than the Translators or the LS50s can deliver on their own, and saving money on stands at the same time. But to be fair it takes a good amplifier to pull it off.
Oh yeah. My soundstage is so good I had my eyes closed and the singer literally kicked me in the head. Oh wait that was the wife telling me to turn it down. Mwahahahah! 😂
I have window and sound curtain in back of my speakers for center wall. Audio guys mentioned draping a wool blanket over top the of the curtains or going to a heavier velvet type curtain. Let's say you are moving into another place and could make the room any size you want. What size would be most optimal and not too big or too small for 5 to 6 foot tall speakers?
When a person complains about the imaging or the sound of their speakers; very first thing I would ask myself is if the speakers are inside the toilet or how the room is shaped or if the room has weird looking furniture because not all rooms are the same and plays a vital role with imaging. I can’t give my advice until I personally look at where the speakers are located.
I have focal sopra 2 ,4 feet away from wall to front of speaker and I have 5 vicoustic multi difusors on the front wall and I have the audiophiles handbook and I got the depth but I needed the difusors aswell.
I got better depth by putting the speakers at zero toe in. This actually ’snapped’ everything into place finally. I was shocked. The piano and bass instruments now sound like they are in the proper location in the room finally and the stage width and detail got 100s of times better. Dynaudio Focus260
record spinners put there, if you cant move your speakers any closer to the wall anymore, a lighter tracking force on your cartridge will also help to get more room and depth.
This is a great explanation of depth … if you have sufficient sound diffusion, panels, curtains, etc. in back of the listening position why do you need additional deadening material such as books which you mentioned, in the center in between the speakers? Wouldn’t the sound coming from the center area be reflective sound anyway?
Thanks for that. I don’t like that style of music typically but listen to it through headphones. I can see why you think it. I’ll give it a go later on my system as everyone in the house is still asleep!
I'm considering getting the "Loudspeaker" and SACD to try to get my Klipsch RP600Miis set up as good as I can, but my single seat is against the back wall in my bedroom (~13x16) and I really can't move forward very far - I'm about 7 1/2 feet from the speakers now, which are in front of bookshelves. Maybe it's not worth trying to calibrate....someone try to convince me to spend the $60.
I just finished what I could do to get my speakers working right and they sound pretty good - despite not moving everything out of my bedroom and laying down rows of painter's tape. Now I have another problem...after using the tracks on the SACD all my regular CDs now sound flat and lifeless!
Better quality crossover parts, will give you a far better sound stage, if setup a loan doesn't do it, quality air core inductors, capacitors and resistors, from company's like Mundorf, Jantzen etc, really works well, goodluck & another fabulous video paul😁
Absolutely! Some other factors that will also contribute are baffle width (the narrower the better), room treatment (or a lack thereof) and of course there are also di-pole & bi-pole speakers that can also help to create a larger sense of depth of the soundstage beyond a traditional box speaker, but will often require more space around/behind them.
@@hoth2112 Yes, I agree on those points, but for some music I tend to prefer the sense of depth to a soundstage should be that which was intended by the studio mastering the music with the depth embedded in the audio recording rather than too much ambient reflections added from the room. Making a studio recording sound like a larger room live recording can put some "realism" into the experience but it wasn't truly intended. In fact, much modern music is optimized against the balance you get on earbuds, headphones and desktop systems more than large audio systems (which can be a bummer for us audiophiles, I must say). Thus it's much about personal preference and what specific music taste you have. Unfortunately, I have a diverse taste in music and find myself often realizing a particular music track is not optimum for the way I'm listening e.g. earbud listening at work with large soundstage music optimized for speakers. So I began to make playlists optimized with music for near-field (desktop, earbuds, headphones) vs. ambient speaker setups (like what you are talking about).
i had an idea. i put some little wheels under my towers so when not in use i put them towards the wall.. when i will listen to music i bring them 4 or 5 feet forward.. i called and patented them as the Endrizo speaker advanced moving system EPAMS. comercially available very soon.
People have been doing that for years if the speakers are heavy. For lightweight Magnepans and other lighter designs you can easily pick them up to move back and forth, no wheels required.
My own experience is that depth is an illusion best recreated if we cannot see a wall. All depth seems to be is lower level plus some extra room revere
I have Focal Sopra 3's set about 4 feet from the front wall (maybe a little less) and about 18 inches from the side walls. I get a great sense of depth. You should get this effect - well behind the speakers - no matter what you play - even a cruddy mono recording should work. Nothing to do with your speakers. One of the best makes you can buy.
EXACTLY my meaning!! Why would you EVER compress WAV with the insanely large storage capacity we have today? I don't agree on/care about the better Metadata Flac have compared to wav.
Many people DO care about having the metadata that FLAC or ALAC offers. Cover art, track names, album name, etc. It adds to the pleasure and experience of listening. If decompressed properly the result is EXACTLY the same as the original .wav file. Free LOSSLESS Audio Codec is what FLAC stands for and it is. Any decent streamer today can decompress them, even FLAC level 8, on the fly just fine. We are a long way from the early 2000s in processing power. Besides, any GOOD DAC takes the stream and reclocks it after buffering, so the DAC doesn't care that it was once a FLAC file. Storage is cheap now, but not free. The same applies to Internet bandwidth.
Depth requires - among other things - a lack of early reflections from the front wall. If there's no room to achieve that by putting space between the baffles and the wall then there's room treatment.
Human perception is rather complex in depth of soundstage. If someone is singing further away, the sound heard is relatively from more surface reflections arriving at the eardrums. The composition of those reflections impacting time of arrival of the waves make us perceive distance. The sort of magic of our brain making such determination is the reason why judging by listening often wins over measurements.
Like some aspects of soundstage, there can sometimes be an depth ambiguity that can be resolved in several ways if you concentrate. This is analogous to the Necker Cube (see Wikipedia) optical illusion. I think other aspects of sound stage also can yield to concentration but behave more like a Random Dot Stereogram (also see Wikipedia). Tweaks, whether they are room setup, equipment or visual can create favorable conditions that lower the concentration level required.
I have recordings that is putting the performer(s) between the loudspeakers and the listener (like a hologram) One example; The McIntosh CD; ruclips.net/video/nl9GPxtYKFY/видео.html from this; ruclips.net/video/Gcl3cyvZgKU/видео.html And Denon test CD; Paganini; ruclips.net/video/kHVFALLIBuU/видео.html So, not everything is beyond the speakers.
All the usual suspects on RUclips (the popular reviewers) say to get a deep soundstage you have to use a good R2R DAC. Well, maybe. They say that sigma-delta chip based DACs just inherently have a much flatter soundstage. I'm not sure about DACs using FPGA chips with custom programming. I still wonder why this is, if it is true. What do old school architecture R2R DACs bring to the table that is missing from high quality sigma-delta chip-based DACs? Can a chip-based DAC ever come close to offering as deep a soundstage and natural tonality?
@rosswarren436 I returned the one i had from that company that sounds like a bad word "made in usa" it sounded terrible, so what your saying is $200. Isn't enough ? How much before I find one that makes my system sound better than it already does ? $700. , 2K , ?
@@ericschulze5641ah, that would depend on a lot of variables. How good is your system? What is currently your weakest link? How good are your ears and are you a critical listener? How important are these to you: tonality, soundstage width, soundstage depth, and imaging? What connections do you have? Do you want a separate DAC or a combined "streamer/DAC"? Someone could be happy with a $500 DAC or it might take a $2K one on up and up and up to something like a Mola Mola Tambaqui which goes for $9K. Then there are crazy ones even higher in price. For me, I look at my system which currently totals about $12K, which some of those on Audiogon would think was a "mid-fi starter system" compared to their $50K and up ones. But I think it'd be stupid to spend more than about $2K tops for a DAC for my system. I'm likely not going to hear any benefits above that. It'd be like popping $2K for a phono cartridge for a $500 U-Turn Orbit turntable. Good luck to you in your search for a satisfying DAC. After watching numerous RUclips video reviews, I've come to the conclusion that many of them are hype at best and outright lies at worse to create "buzz" for products. Still, I'm leaning towards the Schiit 2/64 Multibit Bifrost, the Geshelli Labs Dayzee, or taking a chance on a Chi-fi Denafrips Venus II which is an R2R ladder architecture DAC (skipping their entry level Ares II 12th - 1 model and going for one that likely has better bass definition). Which one will I get? At this point I'm not sure.
Paul, I'm more of critic of your content but I agree with most of what you said because of my personal experience. Stereo depth can be elusive for novices, until one realizes that there are two aspects to stereo depth one can't achieve it. These two aspects are, 1. Of course, your components' abilities. 2. Psychological, that is letting your visual cortex be tricked by sound and placement. Point 1 is easy, even a midfi system will do. Point 2 is actually easier because you dont have to buy it, but one has to have the right setting and room to arrange speakers. Firstl, give 5 to 6 ft of space behind your speakers. Secondly, remove everything from in between your speakers not even stereo rack, just use a plain wall or put some diffusers if you think it helps or makes the empty wall look good. By removing clutter from in between your speakers, you're letting your visual cortex be tricked by auditory parts of brain. Brain is a tricky thing, however, one can trick their brain to audio nirvana!
Hm look ... you have a wall mounted pair of speakers that measure well. Dim the lights and it'd be like there is no wall. Just dim the lights. If it measures proper and you have no box resonances, there'd be room.
Paul one thing you talk about in here I disagree with. You make a statement saying that sound doesn't come from the speakers. If it's in the recording sound will come from the speakers at some point. And this is okay. I'm only mentioning because I don't want newer hobbyists to think they have a problem if they actually hear sound coming straight from the speaker. Certainly sound should come from in between the speakers and outside of the speakers but if it's in the recording you will at times hear an instrument or sound coming right from the speakers.
More "magical thinking" from the religious audio crowd. Why don't you get yourselves a piece of paper and write down the equations for sound propagation down. Simplify for two sources and then solve for flat frequency/linear phase response. What you will find is that there is exactly ONE position for which the equations will return that. That's the spot that the manufacturers of monitor speakers will tell you to use.
Наука
Hi Paul, This was my question. Eyes closed don't make a difference. You are correct, moving the speakers further into the room was not really an option and also moving the listening position back would cause a lolly pole holding up the house to be in front of the listening position. So, I followed your advice and placed a pair of abfusers on the front wall behind the left and right speakers and the depth of the soundstage has improved tremendously. Thank you for the suggestion.
Also, I would try angling the speakers, so they’re facing forward or straight out into the room. Sometimes a certain degree of adjustment with the speakers angle can help create more depth to soundstage.
Not so mucn depth but more width that way
Paul will be searching for his glasses for at least an hour after filming. 0:57
I did that numerous times over the years. One time looking everywhere only to discover my glasses on top of my head. 🙄😳
@@davidfromamerica1871 I'm the opposite, I check on top of my head numerous times, like somehow the first couple of times I somehow woulda missed 'em.
@@Roof_Pizza
I have always shopped for glasses for comfort first. There have been a couple of times looking for my glasses.
I was wearing them..🙄😳😀
Open eyes seem to make a three-dimensional sound stage even more realistic than when my eyes are closed. Most of the time.
In order to have soundstage depth, it requires actual depth from the front wall. The secret is out!🤘 Cheers Paul.
You make a very significant point that is too often overlooked- the relationship between SIGHT & SOUND. Listening in the dark HEIGHTENS our auditory senses, stripping away the visual "noise" and focussing our concentration on the sound.
I've really enjoyed your book (The Audiophile's Guide) , Paul. It's been a real plus on my journey to both understanding sound and getting the best from my gear. Your channel has really got me thinking about both vintage and contemporary gear and getting the sound experience I'm looking for.
Thanks, Gary! That really makes me happy.
I use the in between Lighting method, I dim the lights so it is like a misty Fog rolled in. Doing this for 35 years.
Your ears are telling you the sound is behind the wall but your eyes just see a wall and it ruins the illusion.
I didn’t like the look of diffusers and sound absorption panels on the front wall so I put curtains up,I found this really helped making the illusion that there was space behind them.
Yes a Focal owner! I have the Audiophile's Guide too! I had the same problem with my Sopra No 3's. Mine came more to life when I pulled them 5 ft away from the front wall, aprox 4 feet from the side walls, and I toed them 10 degrees for some added soundstage width. My ceilings are 12ft tall.
Lucky you 12' ceilings... I can only dream.
For me eyes closed doesnt really enhance the experience, but what does is to completely black out the room, not a single LED visible just darkness, and sit with my eyes open in that darkness. That is really immersive for me.
That improves the immersion for me too.
100% yes! Eyes open in the dark and the brain creates some amazing “visuals”.
Same
The force of illusions should never be underestimated.
I made 3 acoustic panels from rockwool slabs and placed them on the rear wall behind me. I also made an attractive diffuser from wooden blocks glued to a board. I also made a couple of nice, smaller acoustic panels with complimentary fabrics.
Experimenting with heavy curtains, books on shelves and rugs helps as does keeping hard surfaces such as coffee tables, mirrors, glazed pictures etc away from early reflections.
A good tip I used when setting up my home recording studio was to have someone hold a mirror and slide this along the side wall as I sat in my listening position. When the reflection of the opposite speaker comes into view, THAT is a prime location to add an acoustic panel. Repeat for the opposite side. I experiment with toe in as a 10mm movement can give you a bigger upgrade than servicing your amp!
Great advice, if you have the room.
Bravo Paul, pulling the LS away from the front wall IS A BIG IMPROVEMENT!!! (Mine are about 6 Feet away)🤩
I am still absolutely baffled that I was able to produce a nice soundstage in the very small room I have my system in. Thanks to Paul and his guidance.
i somehow managed it in my 4x3x2.5m livingroom / pc room (i am a student). its like there is a whole virtual bigger room behind the speakers.
In my fairly small listening area/TV room, my towers sound awesome to me, though very forward up front sounding. I was messing around with just having a pair of bookies setup and much to my surprise, I experienced a bit deeper of a soundstage. The little JBL Control Ones managed to outperform my towers in this one instance. So perhaps give a smaller speaker a try and see.
That works here. I considered replacing my 1980s Dutch Translator Impact 5 towers with Kef LS50 Metas on stands, then I realized the towers have the same height as those stands. So why not use the towers as stands? I tried it and the enhanced 4-speaker system now has great soundstage. A better result than the Translators or the LS50s can deliver on their own, and saving money on stands at the same time. But to be fair it takes a good amplifier to pull it off.
I don't know about you guys, but my system has such a good soundstage that I hear the music in the other room from Paul's
Oh yeah. My soundstage is so good I had my eyes closed and the singer literally kicked me in the head.
Oh wait that was the wife telling me to turn it down.
Mwahahahah! 😂
I have window and sound curtain in back of my speakers for center wall. Audio guys mentioned draping a wool blanket over top the of the curtains or going to a heavier velvet type curtain. Let's say you are moving into another place and could make the room any size you want. What size would be most optimal and not too big or too small for 5 to 6 foot tall speakers?
When a person complains about the imaging or the sound of their speakers; very first thing I would ask myself is if the speakers are inside the toilet or how the room is shaped or if the room has weird looking furniture because not all rooms are the same and plays a vital role with imaging. I can’t give my advice until I personally look at where the speakers are located.
I have focal sopra 2 ,4 feet away from wall to front of speaker and I have 5 vicoustic multi difusors on the front wall and I have the audiophiles handbook and I got the depth but I needed the difusors aswell.
I got better depth by putting the speakers at zero toe in. This actually ’snapped’ everything into place finally. I was shocked. The piano and bass instruments now sound like they are in the proper location in the room finally and the stage width and detail got 100s of times better. Dynaudio Focus260
record spinners put there, if you cant move your speakers any closer to the wall anymore, a lighter tracking force on your cartridge will also help to get more room and depth.
Is it true the reviewer of the fr30 from the magazine bought the speakers? That's an awesome result
I hear music in another room Paul... cool!
This is a great explanation of depth … if you have sufficient sound diffusion, panels, curtains, etc. in back of the listening position why do you need additional deadening material such as books which you mentioned, in the center in between the speakers? Wouldn’t the sound coming from the center area be reflective sound anyway?
Can you link me a setup video of your FR30's with PSA monoblocks, DAC, and stereo preamp?
Depth of image is caused by the reflected sound from the back of the speakers - i.e. 901s, dipoles, bipoles, open baffle.
Paul, have you listened to your copy of Allegri, Miserere through the FR-30 system? That should really be a standout when it comes to depth.
Thanks for that. I don’t like that style of music typically but listen to it through headphones. I can see why you think it.
I’ll give it a go later on my system as everyone in the house is still asleep!
@@gumbygreeneye3655 try to stream the version by the Tallis Scholars. The recording is incredible!
I'm considering getting the "Loudspeaker" and SACD to try to get my Klipsch RP600Miis set up as good as I can, but my single seat is against the back wall in my bedroom (~13x16) and I really can't move forward very far - I'm about 7 1/2 feet from the speakers now, which are in front of bookshelves. Maybe it's not worth trying to calibrate....someone try to convince me to spend the $60.
I just finished what I could do to get my speakers working right and they sound pretty good - despite not moving everything out of my bedroom and laying down rows of painter's tape. Now I have another problem...after using the tracks on the SACD all my regular CDs now sound flat and lifeless!
I squint and stare at the space between the loudspeakers with my little beady eyes with my mouth open.
Guess the warehouse behind that front wall has some good tunes playing from behind the FR30'S 😉
Better quality crossover parts, will give you a far better sound stage, if setup a loan doesn't do it, quality air core inductors, capacitors and resistors, from company's like Mundorf, Jantzen etc, really works well, goodluck & another fabulous video paul😁
Absolutely! Some other factors that will also contribute are baffle width (the narrower the better), room treatment (or a lack thereof) and of course there are also di-pole & bi-pole speakers that can also help to create a larger sense of depth of the soundstage beyond a traditional box speaker, but will often require more space around/behind them.
@@hoth2112 Yes, I agree on those points, but for some music I tend to prefer the sense of depth to a soundstage should be that which was intended by the studio mastering the music with the depth embedded in the audio recording rather than too much ambient reflections added from the room. Making a studio recording sound like a larger room live recording can put some "realism" into the experience but it wasn't truly intended. In fact, much modern music is optimized against the balance you get on earbuds, headphones and desktop systems more than large audio systems (which can be a bummer for us audiophiles, I must say). Thus it's much about personal preference and what specific music taste you have. Unfortunately, I have a diverse taste in music and find myself often realizing a particular music track is not optimum for the way I'm listening e.g. earbud listening at work with large soundstage music optimized for speakers. So I began to make playlists optimized with music for near-field (desktop, earbuds, headphones) vs. ambient speaker setups (like what you are talking about).
i had an idea. i put some little wheels under my towers so when not in use i put them towards the wall.. when i will listen to music i bring them 4 or 5 feet forward.. i called and patented them as the Endrizo speaker advanced moving system EPAMS. comercially available very soon.
People have been doing that for years if the speakers are heavy. For lightweight Magnepans and other lighter designs you can easily pick them up to move back and forth, no wheels required.
Own 2 Visaton Pentaton. They stand 1.5 Feet from the Wall and i have so much deep when the record hast it.
I've read that Delta-Sigma DACs generally have limited soundstage depth. Is this true?
That's what most of the RUclipsr review guys always say, so there must be something to it. But why is the question...
Hi. Where can I download your test-files for free? Thnx.
My own experience is that depth is an illusion best recreated if we cannot see a wall. All depth seems to be is lower level plus some extra room revere
I have Focal Sopra 3's set about 4 feet from the front wall (maybe a little less) and about 18 inches from the side walls.
I get a great sense of depth. You should get this effect - well behind the speakers - no matter what you play - even a cruddy mono
recording should work. Nothing to do with your speakers. One of the best makes you can buy.
Delta Sigma DACs also don't offer much it the way of soundstage, depth in particular.
EXACTLY my meaning!! Why would you EVER compress WAV with the insanely large storage capacity we have today?
I don't agree on/care about the better Metadata Flac have compared to wav.
Many people DO care about having the metadata that FLAC or ALAC offers. Cover art, track names, album name, etc. It adds to the pleasure and experience of listening. If decompressed properly the result is EXACTLY the same as the original .wav file. Free LOSSLESS Audio Codec is what FLAC stands for and it is. Any decent streamer today can decompress them, even FLAC level 8, on the fly just fine. We are a long way from the early 2000s in processing power. Besides, any GOOD DAC takes the stream and reclocks it after buffering, so the DAC doesn't care that it was once a FLAC file. Storage is cheap now, but not free. The same applies to Internet bandwidth.
Depth requires - among other things - a lack of early reflections from the front wall. If there's no room to achieve that by putting space between the baffles and the wall then there's room treatment.
You are talking about the rear wall and pointing at the front wall.
Aha I understand that. Damping or spreading the center wall. You dan't want strong direct reflection from there because it will ruïn the soundstage.
Human perception is rather complex in depth of soundstage. If someone is singing further away, the sound heard is relatively from more surface reflections arriving at the eardrums. The composition of those reflections impacting time of arrival of the waves make us perceive distance. The sort of magic of our brain making such determination is the reason why judging by listening often wins over measurements.
Like some aspects of soundstage, there can sometimes be an depth ambiguity that can be resolved in several ways if you concentrate. This is analogous to the Necker Cube (see Wikipedia) optical illusion. I think other aspects of sound stage also can yield to concentration but behave more like a Random Dot Stereogram (also see Wikipedia). Tweaks, whether they are room setup, equipment or visual can create favorable conditions that lower the concentration level required.
I get sound without the stage
I would have to pay extra for the stage part..😀🤔
I have recordings that is putting the performer(s) between the loudspeakers and the listener (like a hologram)
One example; The McIntosh CD; ruclips.net/video/nl9GPxtYKFY/видео.html from this; ruclips.net/video/Gcl3cyvZgKU/видео.html
And Denon test CD; Paganini; ruclips.net/video/kHVFALLIBuU/видео.html
So, not everything is beyond the speakers.
🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵👍😎🤗
Whatever happened to people just sitting around and listening to music to see if it had anything to say, man?
hoho depth from your system you go
Shure😊
The PS Audio stereo setup book is a valuable tool to achieve the best setup. Highly recommend.
All the usual suspects on RUclips (the popular reviewers) say to get a deep soundstage you have to use a good R2R DAC. Well, maybe. They say that sigma-delta chip based DACs just inherently have a much flatter soundstage. I'm not sure about DACs using FPGA chips with custom programming. I still wonder why this is, if it is true. What do old school architecture R2R DACs bring to the table that is missing from high quality sigma-delta chip-based DACs? Can a chip-based DAC ever come close to offering as deep a soundstage and natural tonality?
Dac's are completely unnecessary
@@ericschulze5641uh, not exactly unless you want to live in a vinyl or tape world here in 2023.
@rosswarren436 I returned the one i had from that company that sounds like a bad word "made in usa" it sounded terrible, so what your saying is $200. Isn't enough ? How much before I find one that makes my system sound better than it already does ? $700. , 2K , ?
@@ericschulze5641ah, that would depend on a lot of variables. How good is your system? What is currently your weakest link? How good are your ears and are you a critical listener? How important are these to you: tonality, soundstage width, soundstage depth, and imaging? What connections do you have? Do you want a separate DAC or a combined "streamer/DAC"?
Someone could be happy with a $500 DAC or it might take a $2K one on up and up and up to something like a Mola Mola Tambaqui which goes for $9K. Then there are crazy ones even higher in price.
For me, I look at my system which currently totals about $12K, which some of those on Audiogon would think was a "mid-fi starter system" compared to their $50K and up ones.
But I think it'd be stupid to spend more than about $2K tops for a DAC for my system. I'm likely not going to hear any benefits above that. It'd be like popping $2K for a phono cartridge for a $500 U-Turn Orbit turntable.
Good luck to you in your search for a satisfying DAC. After watching numerous RUclips video reviews, I've come to the conclusion that many of them are hype at best and outright lies at worse to create "buzz" for products.
Still, I'm leaning towards the Schiit 2/64 Multibit Bifrost, the Geshelli Labs Dayzee, or taking a chance on a Chi-fi Denafrips Venus II which is an R2R ladder architecture DAC (skipping their entry level Ares II 12th - 1 model and going for one that likely has better bass definition). Which one will I get?
At this point I'm not sure.
Just get some Quad ESL57s.
Paul, I'm more of critic of your content but I agree with most of what you said because of my personal experience. Stereo depth can be elusive for novices, until one realizes that there are two aspects to stereo depth one can't achieve it. These two aspects are, 1. Of course, your components' abilities. 2. Psychological, that is letting your visual cortex be tricked by sound and placement.
Point 1 is easy, even a midfi system will do.
Point 2 is actually easier because you dont have to buy it, but one has to have the right setting and room to arrange speakers. Firstl, give 5 to 6 ft of space behind your speakers. Secondly, remove everything from in between your speakers not even stereo rack, just use a plain wall or put some diffusers if you think it helps or makes the empty wall look good.
By removing clutter from in between your speakers, you're letting your visual cortex be tricked by auditory parts of brain. Brain is a tricky thing, however, one can trick their brain to audio nirvana!
If everything else fails, try a tube amp. They're known for give more depth than solid state.
Hm look ... you have a wall mounted pair of speakers that measure well. Dim the lights and it'd be like there is no wall. Just dim the lights. If it measures proper and you have no box resonances, there'd be room.
If you own a 75 inch TV like I do it ain't going to happen. 🖖
Paul one thing you talk about in here I disagree with. You make a statement saying that sound doesn't come from the speakers. If it's in the recording sound will come from the speakers at some point. And this is okay. I'm only mentioning because I don't want newer hobbyists to think they have a problem if they actually hear sound coming straight from the speaker. Certainly sound should come from in between the speakers and outside of the speakers but if it's in the recording you will at times hear an instrument or sound coming right from the speakers.
More "magical thinking" from the religious audio crowd. Why don't you get yourselves a piece of paper and write down the equations for sound propagation down. Simplify for two sources and then solve for flat frequency/linear phase response. What you will find is that there is exactly ONE position for which the equations will return that. That's the spot that the manufacturers of monitor speakers will tell you to use.