Just successfully appealed IRMAA to use 2023 income instead of 2022. Your videos very helpful. I mailed mine in as suggested so I would have a delivery receipt. Ended up not working because a month after delivery they still had not logged it in. I finally went out on Monday and took a number mid-day, line was too long so I left came back 30 min before close, got another number, saw someone in 15-20 min and was done in 10min or less. They looked at but didn't even want a copy the SSA-44 or my backup info for my estimate. The guy I talked to was super nice, straight forward and zeroed it out based on 2023 income. My advice would be, get your info pulled together fill out the forms and show up when your local office opens and sit there till you make it happen. I wasted a month mailing it in. Thanks for your great explanations and advice on the process. Got a refund (direct deposit) today for the first month (2 days after they zeroed the IRMAA out) deducted through SS check, but now I have to go back and get refund for first two months of the year that I paid directly to CMS BEFORE I started taking SS. Lots of moving parts.....
Glad to hear you got the appeal approved. Yeah, every SSA office operates at different levels of efficiency. I agree that a walk-in visit usually is the best route when available.
I watched several videos by other organizations on this topic and this was by far the most helpful, with several tips that clarify how I will appeal the IRMAA decision. Well done!
Followed your guide and got my IRMAA appeal approved in under 2 weeks from when I dropped off the form and supporting docs at my local SSA office. Thanks!
Very helpful. You have done the best job of explaining. We just got hammered at the highest level of IRMAA because 2 years ago we sold our business and now have limited income. Thank you so much for this explanation.
@@MedicareMindsetFirst, thanks for the video on this subject! Second, I'm in a similar situation as Jim Z except I sold my business 1 year ago and paid taxes on that sale on my 2021 taxes. I have no income for 2022 and I turn 65 in December. My planned income in 2023 will be just social security. Can I appeal my high income premium assessment? Thanks again!
@@mohawkin Yes, you can appeal in your situation. It sounds like a "Work stoppage" if you sold your business. And as long as your new reality (much lower income in 2022 and 2023) puts you in a lower income range than the tax returns they are looking at, then you should appeal. For your Dec 2022 Medicare premium, they will look at 2020 tax return. You might be okay on that one if 2020 income was under the first income range. For your 2023 Medicare premium, they will look at 2021 tax return. On Form SSA-44, page 2 (step 2), you could put in 2022 or 2023 as the year your income dropped after the year the business was sold. Either way, you'll have to enter an estimate of your AGI. If you include a letter of instruction, don't get into too much detail about selling a business and getting a big check in 2021. Focus on the fact that you RETIRED as of X date and now in 2022 or 2023 your income is much lower, due to that "Work Stoppage". That's what matters. Good luck!
Thank you for the quick reply. So when would I file an appeal with my 2024 tax return? Will there still be a letter I have to wait for or will they just start off from day one with the surcharge?
Hi Andy. You answered a question I asked a couple of months ago - thanks for that! I now have another question. My wife and I went on Medicare Parts B and D effective September 1, 2022. Medicare determined that we would owe a Part B and Part D IRMAA, but we had just retired and our income would therefore be lower than in previous years, so we each filed an IRMAA appeal. Medicare accepted our appeal and removed the IRMAA. I received an inheritance in late 2022, and now that I'm completing our 2022 tax return, I'm realizing that we will actually owe the IRMAA after all because the inheritance puts us into a higher income bracket. Will Medicare catch up with this and bill us the IRMAA for the four months we had Medicare in 2022? I believe that we are going to have the same problem in 2023. We successfully filed IRMAA appeals for 2023, so we are now paying the base Part B premium. But I expect another inheritance in 2023 that will put us into a higher bracket again that will require IRMAA payment. I'm assuming Medicare will realize this once I file the tax return and bill us the IRMAA for the months we haven't paid it (and for the rest of the months in 2023). In order to avoid this situation in the future, is it possible to wait to file the IRMAA appeal until you complete your tax return for the year in question? For example, pay the IRMAA each month in 2023, and then when you do your 2023 taxes in early 2024 and realize that your income is low enough that IRMAA didn't apply for 2023, file the appeal at that time and have Medicare refund the IRMAA premiums that you paid throughout 2023)?
Judy & Brian - Thanks for your question. Unfortunate timing on the inheritance. Once the 2022 tax information is sent from the IRS to Medicare, you will eventually get a letter stating that you underpaid Medicare premiums for 2022 and will now owe them a good chunk of money. The same will happen for 2023. But you may want to let them know now that your IRMAA request for reconsideration you sent in for 2023 that was already approved needs an update. I would (with SSA's guidance) probably resubmit the IRMAA request for 2023 with the proper estimated AGI for 2023. Include a letter of instruction that you want to get ahead of this and get the premiums correct now (higher premiums), rather than getting hit a year later with a big invoice for the underpayment. Keep in mind, these appeals can't be done forever. It has to be connected to an allowed life changing event, such as Work Stoppage or Work Reduction. If you've already done two of these, the most I've ever seen allowed is 3 appeals.
I retired from a job in 2023 so my MAGI for 2024 and going forward will be decreased at least one range. When do I notify SSA of this change? Do I wait until I receive my IRMAA statement in November and then file an appeal or can I do it beforehand? Also, I have a question concerning documentation. The company has since filed bankruptcy and reorganized so getting any new documentation will be difficult. I do have a copy of a company email announcing my retirement at the time, is this sufficient? The only other thing I have is a note on my 401(k) account stating my termination date. Very informative video and thanks for the help.
Hi Paul - Thanks for your question. If your 2024 MAGI will be in a lower income range than shown on your 2022 federal tax return, then you should take action to reduce the Medicare premium now. You really should've done this in Dec 2023 or Jan 2024, but you can still submit Form SSA-44 now to your local SSA office. The email you mentioned will be fine. You can also write a brief letter of instruction explaining your retirement and subsequent reduction of income to a lower income range. I hope your appeal goes smoothly. Take care! 😀
@@andystamas Thank you for the quick reply! I should of been of clearer in my question as I'm referring to my 2025 IRMAA. My 2023 MAGI will be higher than my 2024 MAGI, so therefore I assume I will file an appeal for my 2025 IRMAA in December of this year based on my 2024 MAGI estimate? My 2022 & 2024 MAGI's are expected to be in the same range. Thanks again for your help.
@@Paul-zo9qr Ahh, gotcha. Yes, you would use either a 2024 or 2025 MAGI estimate to file the appeal for 2025. Whichever gets you to a lower income range. If 2024 and 2025 are in the same range, then use a 2024 estimate, as you will have a more firm number at the end of 2024.
I will be charged IRMAA, but because I will retire in at the end of June( currently we are in May) I was told by Social Security rep to wait until I retire to file SSA-44.
In general, that makes sense...but maybe SSA would at least accept the paperwork a little early and process it in June. Every SSA office does things their own way, so if they are adamant about you waiting until June to submit the paperwork, then go that route.
How does it work in the year you turn 65 (the partial year). Will you get a letter even if you have not filed for Medicare yet? Do you need to wait for a letter before filing the appeal?
If you haven't signed up for Part B (medical) or Part D (drug plan), then you can't get an IRMAA letter from Medicare. When you do sign up in the future, that's when you'll get the IRMAA letter...at which time you can file the appeal. You can't file the appeal before receiving the IRMAA letter.
Thank you. So will I have to pay a premium? Situation as follows. Very high income in 2023 (would be in highest IRMAA surcharge zone). Retired end of 2023. Income in 2024 and 2025 will not cause any surcharge. Will start Medicare mid 2025. If they use 2023 I will have an issue if I can’t appeal.
@@keithmachado-pp6fv You'll be fine. Yes, they will look at 2023 income when you start Part B in mid-2025, but you'll be able to use your 2024 income or 2025 estimated income to file the appeal. Since 2024 income will put you in the 1st range, I would just use the 2024 tax return info on the 2025 appeal. Because by mid-2025, you should have your 2024 tax return done. So you can easily show what income range the late 2023 retirement put you in starting with 2024. Then in 2026, you won't have to do an appeal since they will look at 2024 income automatically.
Great information however, I do have one question. If my wife and I file our taxes as "Married filing jointly" do we both have to fill out separate a SSA-44 Forms ?
Andy-- Thank you for the concise and informative video. My father will no longer be receiving LTC insurance payments. This was the reason he went over on income into the next bracket. His expenses are not going down, he no longer has the LTC AND his SS income is going down??!! Does loss/end of LTC insurance constitute one of the qualifying reasons to file? thanks very much
Thanks for reaching out. This wouldn't be one of the life changing events they allow for an appeal. Also, I'm not sure why receiving long-term care insurance benefits would even be a part of your father's AGI in the past. Those benefits should've been tax-free...but maybe he had a different kind of policy. I would check with his accountant about that.
I am a New York city employee and will retire next week. Is it correct what they say that NYC employee who retired getting pension from the city get s reimbursed for all that they paid for Medicare Part B including IRMAA? Thank you
Great Video! I do however have a question. I am on disability and receive Medicare, my husband retired in 2021. I chose to wait to submit the "work stoppage" SSA form due to bonuses and real-estate income that still kept us in the higher bracket which in turn reduced my benefit by $200. This year will be the actual yearly income which is significantly lower than the previous years. I am not really sure if I should submit now or wait? It is definitely intimidating!
Thanks for your question. The retirement (life changing event) happened 3 years ago, so it might be too far out to use for an appeal. But you can surely give it a shot. The tax year when the household AGI will drop to a lower range than shown on your tax return from 2022 is what you would use on Form SSA44 (Step 2). Is that 2023 or 2024? If it's 2023, that should work fine. If it's 2024, it might work. It's worth a shot.
Hi, thank you for your response. Our lowest regular income will be starting 2024. This is why I am not sure if I should just submit the form with the estimated time to start this year or??
Thank you for the great video! Clarification question: I and my wife filing joint taxes. I am retiring (hence 'work stoppage' is the reason to file on my form). My wife retired some time back and does not currently have a separate income. What should be chosen as a reason on her SSA-44 form.
So you can't just keep appealing every time you have a big year...correct? If Medicare does a 2-year lookback annually, won't your bracket automatically adjust? Once we all start taking RMDs won't we be in a higher bracket for the rest of our lives?
Right, you need to have an allowed Life Changing Event AND a reduction of income to a lower income range because of that event. The most common examples are a Work Stoppage, a Work Reduction, or a Death of Spouse. Outside of those, it's typically not going to work. RMDs definitely impact overall AGI, but that won't always mean you'll be in a higher AGI bracket for Medicare purposes. It certainly could, so you'll want to work with a financial advisor or CPA to help minimize the impact to Medicare premiums.
Great video! I just started medicare at 65 this month as i have gone to very part time. My IRMAA determination notice put us in the Married filing jointly bracket in my 2021 MAGI that starts at 366K. I just filled out my 2022 1040 and that form puts my MAGI in the middle bracket 306K to 366K. My 2023 income will be lower than 306K but I might have to do a ROTH conversion that would artificially increase my income. My life changing event was a reduction in work hours on 4/3/2023. What do I put in step 2 and Step 3? Should I try to push for the lower bracket in Step 3 based on probable lower income (
That's a tough one...as your income reduction in 2022 was prior to the life changing event that is happening right now in April 2023. That might not fly. You may have to use a 2023 ESTIMATE of MAGI to make this work. But if you aren't confident you will truly be in a lower MAGI range in 2023 with the possible Roth conversion (compared to 2021), then it doesn't sound like you should appeal. I would run the numbers with a financial advisor or CPA who can look at the benefits of both the Roth conversion from a tax perspective and also the Medicare IRMAA premium tables. Maybe there's a way to do some Roth conversion but still be in a lower MAGI range for Medicare. Step 2 is where you enter the expected MAGI level for the year income was reduced based on the life changing event cited in Step 1. Step 3 is almost never needed. Just answer No.
@@andystamas Thanks. I did have a reduction of hours in early 2022 that accounted for the lower MAGI in 2022. Maybe I should get an employer letter that documents that and change my Date of life changing event to 1/1/2022.
@@rossde1 Perfect! Then I would use that as your life changing event (work reduction) in 2022. Then you can use the 2022 tax return data to file the appeal. If you have a letter from work about that work reduction, that would be helpful to include.
hi, great video, I will subscribe. My question is: I had a life-changing event in 2018 and my wife was just laid off from her job on February 1st, 2024. Do I file my form with my 2018 event and hers with her 2024 event? If we do that, do we put our 2023 joint tax return information on my step 2 and an estimate for 2024 on her step 2? Note that our 2023 return (already filed) has AGI of $157K and our estimate for 2024 will be about $164K. Or, do we file with just my wife's event on both forms? In that case, do we put 2023 or 2024 on both forms? And say "No" on part 3.
I'm assuming your 2022 AGI was high, which is why you're trying to appeal and get the 2024 Medicare premium reduced. Your life changing event in 2018 is too far in the past, but you can both use your wife's Work Stoppage as of 2/1/24 for both of your individual IRMAA appeals. Since the event happened in 2024, you really can't point to a prior year and say the event in 2024 impacted 2023 income. Rather, you'll put in your 2024 estimated AGI in step 2. I always recommend saying No on Step 3. Note: Every SSA office does things their own way, so you may get a different opinion from the rep handling the case, but this is how I would file it.
That's great news! I'm glad this video helped you get through the appeal process. Yep, now you have the big decision of "Original Medicare vs. Medicare Advantage" :o)
I'm signed up for Medicare starting 9/23. In June of 2019 I sold my business and retired. For the last 3 years I have been receiving payments for the business that have put me in a higher income bracket. The income is a capital gain. I received my last much smaller payment in January 2023. I recently received an IRMMA determination based on my 2021 income which is significantly higher than my 2023 income will be. I did fill out SSA-44 form and submitted it about 3 weeks ago along with evidence that I was no longer receiving payments and an estimate of my 2023 &2024 income. I then received a letter asking for payment for the first 3 months. The payments didn't include an additional IRMMA amount. Does that mean it was accepted?
Thanks for your question. Your Life Changing Event was 4 years ago, so they might not allow this...but I'm glad you submitted the appeal. It's worth a shot. Did it get approved? I'm not sure, based on the info you provided. If the IRMAA was removed or reduced, you would get a letter that explicitly states they are removing the IRMAA. Check with the SSA office you submitted the forms to.
@@MedicareMindset Thank you for the quick reply.... No I haven't received anything concerning my SSA-44, the only clue that it might have been approved is that my Part B rates I'm being billed for the first 3 months (sep, oct, nov) don't include an IRMAA charge. So the end of payments for my business doesn't seem like a life changing event?
@@LemmingsOnGravel The payments stopping alone isn't enough. There needs to be one of the allowed life changing events (i.e. work stoppage, work reduction, death of spouse) AND a reduction of income due to the life changing event. If you don't see IRMAA being billed, then maybe it's been approved and you might have missed the letter confirming that. Create a Medicare.gov account and look at your billing and payment history. Also, login to your SSA.gov account and see what is being charged for Medicare premiums.
@@MedicareMindset OK, thank you. I created a medicare.gov account and paid the amount an amount $494.70 for the first 3 months that didn't include any part B or D IRMAA amounts. I'm not drawing SS right now so I paid it online with a CC. So either it got approved or there is a lag in billing the IRMAA amounts?
@@MedicareMindset My appeal for 2023 and 2024 was approved in late December, no sure why it took so long. As an FYI: I made the case that my sale of my business was essentially 80% my retirement planning assets and that it was like I was getting a lump sum payment for a pension plan in 2022 that needed to last the rest of our lives. And I pointed out that in 2022 I paid an extra 5% in capital gains taxes and a 3.8% Medicare surcharge on the proceeds from sale of my business. Would it have been feasible to spread the payments out over 15 year I would have for a lot of tax reasons. I also told them that in 2019 when I sold the business I could have sold it outright to a company from India for cash on the day of the sale, but instead allowed two employees to purchase it which I financed which spread the sale out over 4 years…. I included a letter from the company stating that I had financed it and they had made lump sum payments, the last being in 2022.
Medicaremindset: I retired in September of 2021. Did a 401k rollover to a IRA ( not a Roth ) with part of the funds. The rest I used to buy a property to live. That increased my annual income for that year. I’m 65 in May of this year. Got my IRMMA notice for medicare and the premium is $360 more for Part B and $70 for part D. I filled an appeal based on life changing event work stoppage in 2021. In 2022 my income is 58k. I provided an estimate for this year for $58k. I also have some health issues that keep me from getting a part time job to pay for this increase. So I wanted them to understand the financial burden this puts me in. Do you think this would qualify for a lower premium?
Yes, it sounds like either citing your 2022 tax return info, or your 2023 estimated MAGI will totally remove IRMAA. The income dropped to a lower income range AND you had a Work Stoppage.
Great video/instruction. For clarification purposes: My income-changing event was in Mid-2022 when I 'lost my job' (separation agreement). With that occurring, I decided at 64, to take Soc Security on Dec 22. I will begin a part-time job this May 2023. Right now my IRMMA will be based on our 2021 MAGI. 2021 was our highest income jointly. 2022 will be slightly lower and 2023 will be the lowest. Should I fill out SSA 44 with 2022 actual in step 2 and the 2023 estimate in step 3 or only 2023 estimate in step 2? Last question, even though I am only filing an IRMMA reconsideration based on my lower income, am I still filling out the "MAGI estimates" on that form for our lower "JOINT MAGI"?
Hi Bill - Assuming you're going on Medicare in 2023 and your life changing event (work stoppage) happened in 2022...then you can use either the 2022 tax return to show proof of the reduction of income on Step 2, or use a 2023 estimate on Step 2 (whichever puts you in a lower income range than the 2021 income range). And yes, if you use an estimate, you are marking down the joint AGI estimate on the form.
I am a high income W-2 earner, and plan to stop working at the end of 2023. Income (wages) for 2024 and beyond will be $0.00, I will have passive income in 2024 and beyond but not to exceed the lowest IRMMA bracket. Before I request a IRRMA, must I first apply for Medicare part B? I am currently covered by employer health insurance, and will continue through the end of 2023. I would like to know in advance what my medicare part B premiums will be starting January 2024. I am a CPA and familiar with IRS and tax forms just not sure on the order to filing for a IRMAA waive.
Wes - You'll enroll in Part B in the months leading up to when your group health coverage will end. After that is processed and approved, you'll receive an IRMAA notice letter stating your income was high in the past, causing Part B premiums to be higher than normal. That is when you file the appeal/request for reconsideration to reduce (or eliminate) IRMAA.
Hi Andy! I filed for Medicare this year and will start June 1. I received a Medicare Premiums notice in the mail. From TY 2021 to 2022 household income will drop by 70%. 2022 taxes have been filed. Should I wait until Medicare starts before filing an appeal or should I do it now? Thank you!
Gary - Thanks for your question. You'll need to wait until you get the IRMAA notice letter stating they will be charging you a higher premium. If you have that letter...AND...you have one of the allowed Life Changing Events (i.e. Work Stoppage, Work Reduction, Death of Spouse, etc), then you can file the appeal...citing 2022 as the year income dropped due to the life changing event. Since you have your 2022 taxes done, you can provide that with the completed SSA-44, and a letter of instruction about your life changing event.
I have a question regarding a possibility of a late appeal. This is a repeat, but this question was not answered. "Is it possible to wait to file the IRMAA appeal until you complete your tax return for the year in question? For example, pay the IRMAA each month in 2023, and then when you do your 2023 taxes in early 2024 and realize that your income [for 2023] is low enough that IRMAA didn't apply for 2023, file the appeal at that time and have Medicare refund the IRMAA premiums that you paid throughout 2023)?". Many thanks for the excellent video and all the answers.
I believe the answer is yes. I say that because every SSA office seems to have their own process for IRMAA appeals. You may want to give them a call or stop in...and just confirm if they want you to submit now, or wait until you have your tax return. Their rules state that you can run the appeal using an estimate, so the tax return is really not needed. I would prefer that you look at your income for the year and just process the appeal now. But I understand that you might not have access to all the information to calculate a good estimate of 2023 AGI.
My wife started with Medicare in March 2023. I retired recently in Oct 2023. Our income for 2023 is in alignment with our current IRMAA assessment. However in 2024, our income will be reduced due to my retirement. Should I wait to file SSA-44 until we get a new IRMAA letter for 2024 (assuming they will send a new letter in December) or submit now using the 2023 form but put in my estimated income for 2024 in step 2.
Based on your income in 2023 being in the same range as in 2021, you wouldn't appeal the 2023 IRMAA. But you'll appeal 2024 IRMAA. You'll get a letter in December with the IRMAA determination. Then file the appeal with Form SSA-44. Use your ESTIMATE of 2024 gross income on the form (Step 2).
The answer depends on the situation... If you just started Part B very recently, then you have some time...a few months after Part B starts. If you started Part B in the past, but now have IRMAA to pay in 2023, due to high income from 2021...then you really should've appealed in Dec 2022, Jan 2023, or Feb 2023. But you probably could get away with submitting it in the next few months because of filing taxes and confirming prior income.
I've retired in September 2022 and my MAGI is still is several IRMAA brackets up. My wife will start Medicare in December 2022, when filing the appeal form should I put 2022 income in step two or an estimate of 2023? Should I wait to file the appeal until 2023 and just pay the increase premiums for one month and receive a refund?
If your estimated 2022 AGI will be in a lower income range than 2020, then file the appeal now to reduce her Dec 2022 premium. Otherwise, she will pay the higher premium in Dec 2022. There wouldn't be a refund if you didn't file an appeal and get approved. And then if 2023 estimated AGI will be in a lower income range than 2021, file the appeal again later this after the 2023 IRMAA determination letter arrives. In both cases, you would be using an ESTIMATE of your household AGI in Step 2 of the SSA-44 form.
I plan to retire next year when I turn 70, August 2023. I know my premium for Medicare B will be based on 2021 yearly income. But I plan to continue to work part time one day a week after retirement after retiring. Will my premiums be automatically readjusted by Medicare due to the change in yearly income or will I have to fill out a form in future years? Next question will this change my monthly social security check amount with the drop in income?
Thanks for your question. In order to reduce your Medicare premium (IRMAA appeal), you'll need to complete and submit Form SSA-44 in 2023. This assumes you retire in 2023 AND have a reduction of income to a lower income range compared to 2021. Medicare will NOT automatically reduce your premium in 2023. You have to file the appeal, otherwise they will go off your 2021 income to determine your 2023 premium. And then I imagine your 2022 income will be higher, so you'll possibly need to appeal again in 2024. As far as your Social Security retirement benefits, that's a separate thing. However, your "NET" Social Security benefit is of course impacted, as the Medicare premium is deducted from your Social Security benefit.
Let say one year a stock sale increase our IRMAA. While me and my spouse was retired and on medicare. What box will I check the next year when our income reduces under 194,000. What date will I use for Life-Changing Event?
Technically, you don't have a legit Life Changing Event. The most common are Work Stoppage and Work Reduction. You need a reduction of income to a lower range AND an allowed life changing event to file an appeal. More detail is here: www.medicaremindset.com/sep You certainly can try, but the SSA office may reject it.
Thank you for your information, yes the form is very confusing and even speaking to a SS rep, doesn't offer much in the way of clarification. We have a life changing event, a work force reduction for in 2023. We are paying higher IRMMA based on 2021 tax year. One income has been slashed effectively 2 months into this year and we are having to pay higher IRMMA rates based on 2021. We will probably elect to take Unemployment, but no guarantee he will get another job (at his age and may even elect to retire), do we complete the form in step 2 as Tax Year 2023 with adjusted gross income minus his salary? The intent is to reduce the current IRMMA, which we are no longer in a position to pay. Thank you for this video, very helpful.
Donna - Choose whichever year is lower. If 2022 AGI will be in the lowest income range, use that. Include a copy of your 2022 tax return, if it’s done. But if 2023 is in a lower income range than 2022, use 2023. Provide a letter of instruction summarizing all the income sources that got you to the estimated AGI figure. But you mentioned subtracting income. You need to include all income sources that are taxable in the estimated figure. Do not subtract income sources. Good luck!
If i payoff my mortgage using my IRA monies my income for that year will be high but be back to normal later. Will IRMMA take that as a life changing event?
Unfortunately, no. That alone is not a life changing event. it needs to be one of the 8 events listed on the form (i.e. work stoppage, work reduction, divorce, death of spouse are the four most common). So your plan to use your IRA money to payoff your mortgage would only be okay if it happened to coincide with say a retirement, for example, around the same time. I recommend you consider speaking with a financial advisor whether paying off your mortgage with a big IRA withdrawal is appropriate in the first place...and especially with the IRMAA impact. If your mortgage rate is super low (likely much lower than current rates)...you don't necessarily need to rush to pay it off. One more thing...you could consider splitting your mortgage payoff into two chunks...one part of it here in late 2022 and then the rest in 2023. This would then spread out the income impact over two years, rather than one large increase in one year. Depending on where your numbers are at, you could potentially avoid IRMAA altogether. Again, consult with a financial advisor and a tax professional to discuss this topic and the idea I floated. One of my clients did this in the past and it worked well for them. Good luck to you! :)
I have a question This year 2023 my husband and I will applied to Medicare part B We will receive a higher premium for that. My husband was laid off two weeks ago but for the severance package our income will be higher for this year Until next year will be lower Can I appeal next year ?
Yes, you can appeal for 2024, based on the 2023 retirement. Since 2023 will still be high income, you’ll have to use an estimate of 2024 adjusted gross income on the appeal form. The 2024 IRMAA notice letter will arrive by mail around this December. Appeal at that time.
I am retired and in 2020 I purchased a home of which I sold some stock to put down a 20% down payment and therefore increased my tax return substantially when I filed in 2021. This was a one-time event yet it put me into a high tax bracket that year for my Medicaire premium in 2023. All of my other tax returns from years before are substaintially lower. Can I appeal this one time life event? Again next year will be back to my normal earnings for my tax return. TIA
Carol - A one-time high income year alone won't allow you to appeal. You need to ALSO have a life changing event in order to appeal. The most typical are: Work Stoppage, Work Reduction, Divorce, Death of Spouse. If none of those things happened in the past 1-2 years, then you will not be able to appeal this. But once you get into 2024, your Medicare premiums will automatically drop, assuming 2022 income is back to normal for you.
As others have stated, this is an extremely helpful video. Thanks so much for putting it together! I do have one question. I received an IRMAA notice for 2023 and I want to appeal it because I retired earlier in 2022, so my income in 2023 will be lower than my 2021 income. I downloaded form SSA-44, but it's dated 12-2021 and it has the IRMA brackets for 2022, not 2023. So it appears that the form for 2023 has not been created by the Social Security Administration yet. Can I use this 12-2021 form (with the 2022 brackets) to appeal my 2023 IRMAA?
Thanks! Yes, you can use that version of the form. They will update it sometime this month or next month, but the prior version will still work during this interim time frame.
Very good, thanks! One question that confuses me: It seems that in one place both you and the form say for Step 2 to go back two years, so that would be 2020. But on the form for Step 2 they very specifically say, "Fill in the tax year in which your income was reduced by the life-changing event." I retired in mid-2021so my income is much lower than 2020. Is it okay to put in for Step 2, 2021? Or does Step 2 always have to be two years back? Thank you!
It looks like you're confusing Step 2. Medicare is already looking at your 2020 income right now, so you don't need to provide 2020 income data. You need to provide income figures for the year your income was reduced by the life changing event. So if 2021 is the year your income dropped, then enter 2021 for Step 2. And since you've likely filed your 2021 taxes by now, include a copy of your 1040 when you submit the form to your local SSA office. For Step 3, just choose NO.
@@MedicareMindset That was the plan, thanks for confirming what I thought. Quick aside: I was flummoxed by why SSA went back two years, and not one. My mind was going through all the financial implications and I could not really find one. Then, another source I found seemed to imply that it a technical limitation: The IRS simply could not get all the returns over to SSA in a timely fashion, and also, many returns are in a state of flux. So, they go back two years when the returns are much more stable. If correct, this is a great example of Occam's razor: When presented with multiple possible solutions, the simplest is most likely the best. Again, thanks! -ted
@@theodorekahn You're exactly right! It needs to be 2 years ago, since most won't have their previous year's tax return completed when they enroll in Medicare. :)
It is three months now since the local SSA received my SSA-44. They still have not processed it (as far as I know). I called them after a month, and they verified they have the form I submitted. In the meantime, I'm being charged a lot more money for my Medicare Advantage plan. Question: Once they process and approve my SSA-44, do you know if they reimburse me for the higher premiums that were taken out of my Social Security check while I was waiting for them to complete my paperwork?
Karin - That's definitely frustrating SSA is taking so long to process your SSA-44. Just hang in there and keep their feet to the fire...respectfully. Yes, you will be reimbursed for any premiums you shouldn't have paid, if the appeal/request for reconsideration is approved. Note: Your Medicare Advantage plan is not more expensive because of high income...rather, your Medicare premiums are higher because of high income.
@@andystamas Thank you for the quick reply. Just after I made the comment, the video was ending and I saw you explained that the reimbursement will come. I guess I need to practice patience :). I will call them tomorrow, too.
I was "retired" by my company in 2018. I have been recieving annual distributions from a non-qualified 401k type program which could not be rolled over and the distributions show as regular W2 income. Those just ended June 2022. So that income will still show on my 2022 return even though they have now stopped. Do I have to wait until 2023 to appeal or can I document this to show the income will no longer be forthcoming?
Hi Dave - Thanks for your question. From my view, I don't think this would be a successful appeal. Your retirement is just too far out to legitimately say that your income was reduced by a recent retirement. In order for an appeal to work, there needs to be a life changing event relatively recently (usually within the past 2-3 years) AND a reduction of income to a lower income range than the year Medicare is looking at (currently 2020 right now for 2022 premiums). It's entirely up to you if you want to appeal using form SSA-44. There's certainly no harm in trying, but I do want you to manage your expectations here. Additionally, appeals normally need to happen right around the time someone's Part B begins OR in the beginning of the year when the new Medicare premiums are implemented. They likely won't accept your paperwork here in July. Your income is clearly reduced in 2022, so that will help you when you're in 2024...assuming you get into a lower income range. Good luck to you! :o)
I retired in mid November 2021. My 2021 income is very close to my 2020 income but under IRMAA but my 2022 income will be much less than the last 2 years. Do I put in my 2021 income or my estimated 2022 income as I retired in 2021?
Ron - Since we're in 2022, enter your estimated 2022 adjusted gross income on page 2 step 2. 2022 is the year your income was impacted by the life changing event in late 2021, right? If 2022 is lower than 2021, then go with the 2022 estimate. And then you can appeal again for 2023 if 2021 was a high income year also.
I am on ssdi and I have had the premium deducted from my benefit payments from the begining.recently my case worker said she wasn't sure why they were taking the payments because of my low income i qualified for state insurance and programs that would have covered the cost and that I could possibly be reimbursed for all those payments...I have scoured the internet and am just more confused as to how to go about filing I think its called a premium claim??? Is there any merit to what she said?any information would be really appreciated thanks
Jake - Thanks for your question. If you feel you're eligible for Medicaid or a Medicare Savings Program, you should reach out to your state's department of Medicaid or county department of job & family services. You can apply through them. If you're eligible, then you won't pay the Medicare Part B premium.
I'm trying to understand IRMAA and More Importantly the 2 year look back for IRMAA determination. My birthday month/year is 12-1962, December 1962. To apply for Medicare I have the 7 Month window [09/2027-03/2028] 3 months before my birthday month, My birthday month, and 3 months after my birthday month without suffering an increase in lifetime cost for Medicare. Makes sense, if I apply during 09/2027-12/2027, that the 2 year look back to determine IRMAA would be on my 2025 Federal Tax return. If I apply for my Medicare in 01/2028-03/2028 would my IRMAA 2 year look back be on my 2026 Federal Tax Return?
Hello - Thanks for your question. The initial 2yr look-back will be based on when Part B starts. So if Part B starts in 2026, they will look at 2024 tax returns. If it starts in 2027, they will look at 2025 tax returns. And then every year after that, they will send you a notice in November/December time frame regarding what your premiums will be for the following year. For example, a letter will arrive in late 2027 with information about your 2028 Medicare premiums, which are based on 2026. Fun, right!?
@@andystamas Actually, Andy, it's not bad if what you say is correct. (I incorrectly dated my part B application period which I have corrected on my original post) Why I asked my question is I'm in the middle of SUBSTANTIAL ROTH CONVERSIONS during the period of TCJA [Tax Cuts & Jobs Act] which sunsets at the end of the 2025 Federal Tax year. If what you say is correct, my final Substantial ROTH conversion in the 2025 federal tax year would NOT be considered for the IRMAA determination (as long as my part B starts in 2028)
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I'm a Medicare advisor and I will tell anyone reading: this is an excellent video.
Just successfully appealed IRMAA to use 2023 income instead of 2022. Your videos very helpful. I mailed mine in as suggested so I would have a delivery receipt. Ended up not working because a month after delivery they still had not logged it in. I finally went out on Monday and took a number mid-day, line was too long so I left came back 30 min before close, got another number, saw someone in 15-20 min and was done in 10min or less. They looked at but didn't even want a copy the SSA-44 or my backup info for my estimate. The guy I talked to was super nice, straight forward and zeroed it out based on 2023 income. My advice would be, get your info pulled together fill out the forms and show up when your local office opens and sit there till you make it happen. I wasted a month mailing it in. Thanks for your great explanations and advice on the process. Got a refund (direct deposit) today for the first month (2 days after they zeroed the IRMAA out) deducted through SS check, but now I have to go back and get refund for first two months of the year that I paid directly to CMS BEFORE I started taking SS. Lots of moving parts.....
Glad to hear you got the appeal approved. Yeah, every SSA office operates at different levels of efficiency. I agree that a walk-in visit usually is the best route when available.
I watched several videos by other organizations on this topic and this was by far the most helpful, with several tips that clarify how I will appeal the IRMAA decision. Well done!
Thanks! We are so happy to hear this!
Followed your guide and got my IRMAA appeal approved in under 2 weeks from when I dropped off the form and supporting docs at my local SSA office. Thanks!
That's great news! I'm glad it went smoothly for you. Kudos to your SSA office for doing that in only 2 weeks.
Thank you! I was a tad hesitant about filing. You gave me the confidence I need to file that appeal!!!😊
Great to hear!
Very helpful. You have done the best job of explaining. We just got hammered at the highest level of IRMAA because 2 years ago we sold our business and now have limited income. Thank you so much for this explanation.
Jim - We're glad you found the video helpful. Hopefully, you can file the appeal and get the premiums reduced. :)
@@MedicareMindsetFirst, thanks for the video on this subject! Second, I'm in a similar situation as Jim Z except I sold my business 1 year ago and paid taxes on that sale on my 2021 taxes. I have no income for 2022 and I turn 65 in December. My planned income in 2023 will be just social security. Can I appeal my high income premium assessment? Thanks again!
@@mohawkin Yes, you can appeal in your situation. It sounds like a "Work stoppage" if you sold your business. And as long as your new reality (much lower income in 2022 and 2023) puts you in a lower income range than the tax returns they are looking at, then you should appeal.
For your Dec 2022 Medicare premium, they will look at 2020 tax return. You might be okay on that one if 2020 income was under the first income range.
For your 2023 Medicare premium, they will look at 2021 tax return. On Form SSA-44, page 2 (step 2), you could put in 2022 or 2023 as the year your income dropped after the year the business was sold. Either way, you'll have to enter an estimate of your AGI. If you include a letter of instruction, don't get into too much detail about selling a business and getting a big check in 2021. Focus on the fact that you RETIRED as of X date and now in 2022 or 2023 your income is much lower, due to that "Work Stoppage". That's what matters.
Good luck!
Thank you for the quick reply. So when would I file an appeal with my 2024 tax return? Will there still be a letter I have to wait for or will they just start off from day one with the surcharge?
You will file the appeal after Part B is approved and after you get the IRMAA determination notice from Medicare.
Hi Andy. You answered a question I asked a couple of months ago - thanks for that! I now have another question. My wife and I went on Medicare Parts B and D effective September 1, 2022. Medicare determined that we would owe a Part B and Part D IRMAA, but we had just retired and our income would therefore be lower than in previous years, so we each filed an IRMAA appeal. Medicare accepted our appeal and removed the IRMAA. I received an inheritance in late 2022, and now that I'm completing our 2022 tax return, I'm realizing that we will actually owe the IRMAA after all because the inheritance puts us into a higher income bracket. Will Medicare catch up with this and bill us the IRMAA for the four months we had Medicare in 2022? I believe that we are going to have the same problem in 2023. We successfully filed IRMAA appeals for 2023, so we are now paying the base Part B premium. But I expect another inheritance in 2023 that will put us into a higher bracket again that will require IRMAA payment. I'm assuming Medicare will realize this once I file the tax return and bill us the IRMAA for the months we haven't paid it (and for the rest of the months in 2023). In order to avoid this situation in the future, is it possible to wait to file the IRMAA appeal until you complete your tax return for the year in question? For example, pay the IRMAA each month in 2023, and then when you do your 2023 taxes in early 2024 and realize that your income is low enough that IRMAA didn't apply for 2023, file the appeal at that time and have Medicare refund the IRMAA premiums that you paid throughout 2023)?
Judy & Brian - Thanks for your question. Unfortunate timing on the inheritance. Once the 2022 tax information is sent from the IRS to Medicare, you will eventually get a letter stating that you underpaid Medicare premiums for 2022 and will now owe them a good chunk of money. The same will happen for 2023. But you may want to let them know now that your IRMAA request for reconsideration you sent in for 2023 that was already approved needs an update. I would (with SSA's guidance) probably resubmit the IRMAA request for 2023 with the proper estimated AGI for 2023. Include a letter of instruction that you want to get ahead of this and get the premiums correct now (higher premiums), rather than getting hit a year later with a big invoice for the underpayment.
Keep in mind, these appeals can't be done forever. It has to be connected to an allowed life changing event, such as Work Stoppage or Work Reduction. If you've already done two of these, the most I've ever seen allowed is 3 appeals.
@@MedicareMindset Thank you very much for the reply, Andy. I will do as you suggest regarding our 2023 premiums.
I retired from a job in 2023 so my MAGI for 2024 and going forward will be decreased at least one range. When do I notify SSA of this change? Do I wait until I receive my IRMAA statement in November and then file an appeal or can I do it beforehand? Also, I have a question concerning documentation. The company has since filed bankruptcy and reorganized so getting any new documentation will be difficult. I do have a copy of a company email announcing my retirement at the time, is this sufficient? The only other thing I have is a note on my 401(k) account stating my termination date. Very informative video and thanks for the help.
Hi Paul - Thanks for your question. If your 2024 MAGI will be in a lower income range than shown on your 2022 federal tax return, then you should take action to reduce the Medicare premium now. You really should've done this in Dec 2023 or Jan 2024, but you can still submit Form SSA-44 now to your local SSA office.
The email you mentioned will be fine. You can also write a brief letter of instruction explaining your retirement and subsequent reduction of income to a lower income range.
I hope your appeal goes smoothly. Take care! 😀
@@andystamas Thank you for the quick reply! I should of been of clearer in my question as I'm referring to my 2025 IRMAA. My 2023 MAGI will be higher than my 2024 MAGI, so therefore I assume I will file an appeal for my 2025 IRMAA in December of this year based on my 2024 MAGI estimate? My 2022 & 2024 MAGI's are expected to be in the same range. Thanks again for your help.
@@Paul-zo9qr Ahh, gotcha. Yes, you would use either a 2024 or 2025 MAGI estimate to file the appeal for 2025. Whichever gets you to a lower income range. If 2024 and 2025 are in the same range, then use a 2024 estimate, as you will have a more firm number at the end of 2024.
I will be charged IRMAA, but because I will retire in at the end of June( currently we are in May) I was told by Social Security rep to wait until I retire to file SSA-44.
In general, that makes sense...but maybe SSA would at least accept the paperwork a little early and process it in June. Every SSA office does things their own way, so if they are adamant about you waiting until June to submit the paperwork, then go that route.
How does it work in the year you turn 65 (the partial year). Will you get a letter even if you have not filed for Medicare yet? Do you need to wait for a letter before filing the appeal?
If you haven't signed up for Part B (medical) or Part D (drug plan), then you can't get an IRMAA letter from Medicare.
When you do sign up in the future, that's when you'll get the IRMAA letter...at which time you can file the appeal. You can't file the appeal before receiving the IRMAA letter.
Thank you. So will I have to pay a premium? Situation as follows. Very high income in 2023 (would be in highest IRMAA surcharge zone). Retired end of 2023. Income in 2024 and 2025 will not cause any surcharge. Will start Medicare mid 2025. If they use 2023 I will have an issue if I can’t appeal.
@@keithmachado-pp6fv You'll be fine. Yes, they will look at 2023 income when you start Part B in mid-2025, but you'll be able to use your 2024 income or 2025 estimated income to file the appeal. Since 2024 income will put you in the 1st range, I would just use the 2024 tax return info on the 2025 appeal. Because by mid-2025, you should have your 2024 tax return done. So you can easily show what income range the late 2023 retirement put you in starting with 2024.
Then in 2026, you won't have to do an appeal since they will look at 2024 income automatically.
Great information however, I do have one question. If my wife and I file our taxes as "Married filing jointly" do we both have to fill out separate a SSA-44 Forms ?
Yes
Andy--
Thank you for the concise and informative video.
My father will no longer be receiving LTC insurance payments. This was the reason he went over on income into the next bracket. His expenses are not going down, he no longer has the LTC AND his SS income is going down??!!
Does loss/end of LTC insurance constitute one of the qualifying reasons to file?
thanks very much
Thanks for reaching out. This wouldn't be one of the life changing events they allow for an appeal.
Also, I'm not sure why receiving long-term care insurance benefits would even be a part of your father's AGI in the past. Those benefits should've been tax-free...but maybe he had a different kind of policy. I would check with his accountant about that.
Outstanding video tutorial! Thank you!
I am a New York city employee and will retire next week. Is it correct what they say that NYC employee who retired getting pension from the city get s reimbursed for all that they paid for Medicare Part B including IRMAA? Thank you
Thanks for your question...but that should be directed to your HR/pension contacts in NYC.
Great Video! I do however have a question. I am on disability and receive Medicare, my husband retired in 2021. I chose to wait to submit the "work stoppage" SSA form due to bonuses and real-estate income that still kept us in the higher bracket which in turn reduced my benefit by $200. This year will be the actual yearly income which is significantly lower than the previous years. I am not really sure if I should submit now or wait? It is definitely intimidating!
Thanks for your question. The retirement (life changing event) happened 3 years ago, so it might be too far out to use for an appeal. But you can surely give it a shot.
The tax year when the household AGI will drop to a lower range than shown on your tax return from 2022 is what you would use on Form SSA44 (Step 2). Is that 2023 or 2024? If it's 2023, that should work fine. If it's 2024, it might work. It's worth a shot.
Hi, thank you for your response. Our lowest regular income will be starting 2024. This is why I am not sure if I should just submit the form with the estimated time to start this year or??
@@jrkays Gotcha. It could go either way. It depends on the SSA office. They may help you on this. It's worth submitting. Good luck!
Thank you for the great video! Clarification question: I and my wife filing joint taxes. I am retiring (hence 'work stoppage' is the reason to file on my form). My wife retired some time back and does not currently have a separate income. What should be chosen as a reason on her SSA-44 form.
Hi there. She would use the same reason in Step 1 as you...your work stoppage can be used for both of you.
So you can't just keep appealing every time you have a big year...correct? If Medicare does a 2-year lookback annually, won't your bracket automatically adjust? Once we all start taking RMDs won't we be in a higher bracket for the rest of our lives?
Right, you need to have an allowed Life Changing Event AND a reduction of income to a lower income range because of that event. The most common examples are a Work Stoppage, a Work Reduction, or a Death of Spouse.
Outside of those, it's typically not going to work.
RMDs definitely impact overall AGI, but that won't always mean you'll be in a higher AGI bracket for Medicare purposes. It certainly could, so you'll want to work with a financial advisor or CPA to help minimize the impact to Medicare premiums.
Great video! I just started medicare at 65 this month as i have gone to very part time. My IRMAA determination notice put us in the Married filing jointly bracket in my 2021 MAGI that starts at 366K. I just filled out my 2022 1040 and that form puts my MAGI in the middle bracket 306K to 366K. My 2023 income will be lower than 306K but I might have to do a ROTH conversion that would artificially increase my income. My life changing event was a reduction in work hours on 4/3/2023. What do I put in step 2 and Step 3? Should I try to push for the lower bracket in Step 3 based on probable lower income (
That's a tough one...as your income reduction in 2022 was prior to the life changing event that is happening right now in April 2023. That might not fly. You may have to use a 2023 ESTIMATE of MAGI to make this work. But if you aren't confident you will truly be in a lower MAGI range in 2023 with the possible Roth conversion (compared to 2021), then it doesn't sound like you should appeal.
I would run the numbers with a financial advisor or CPA who can look at the benefits of both the Roth conversion from a tax perspective and also the Medicare IRMAA premium tables. Maybe there's a way to do some Roth conversion but still be in a lower MAGI range for Medicare.
Step 2 is where you enter the expected MAGI level for the year income was reduced based on the life changing event cited in Step 1. Step 3 is almost never needed. Just answer No.
@@andystamas Thanks. I did have a reduction of hours in early 2022 that accounted for the lower MAGI in 2022. Maybe I should get an employer letter that documents that and change my Date of life changing event to 1/1/2022.
@@rossde1 Perfect! Then I would use that as your life changing event (work reduction) in 2022. Then you can use the 2022 tax return data to file the appeal. If you have a letter from work about that work reduction, that would be helpful to include.
hi, great video, I will subscribe. My question is: I had a life-changing event in 2018 and my wife was just laid off from her job on February 1st, 2024. Do I file my form with my 2018 event and hers with her 2024 event? If we do that, do we put our 2023 joint tax return information on my step 2 and an estimate for 2024 on her step 2? Note that our 2023 return (already filed) has AGI of $157K and our estimate for 2024 will be about $164K. Or, do we file with just my wife's event on both forms? In that case, do we put 2023 or 2024 on both forms? And say "No" on part 3.
I'm assuming your 2022 AGI was high, which is why you're trying to appeal and get the 2024 Medicare premium reduced.
Your life changing event in 2018 is too far in the past, but you can both use your wife's Work Stoppage as of 2/1/24 for both of your individual IRMAA appeals. Since the event happened in 2024, you really can't point to a prior year and say the event in 2024 impacted 2023 income. Rather, you'll put in your 2024 estimated AGI in step 2.
I always recommend saying No on Step 3.
Note: Every SSA office does things their own way, so you may get a different opinion from the rep handling the case, but this is how I would file it.
Hi
Question does Medicare pays negotiated changes to providers like private or groups insurance does
Essentially yes. There is a Medicare approved amount that a Medicare contracted provider agrees to accept for the services provided.
@@MedicareMindset
Thanks for quick answer
Thank you for this information, I submitted an appeal and it was accepted! Now I just need to figure out which Medicare option is best for me…
That's great news! I'm glad this video helped you get through the appeal process. Yep, now you have the big decision of "Original Medicare vs. Medicare Advantage" :o)
I'm signed up for Medicare starting 9/23. In June of 2019 I sold my business and retired. For the last 3 years I have been receiving payments for the business that have put me in a higher income bracket. The income is a capital gain. I received my last much smaller payment in January 2023. I recently received an IRMMA determination based on my 2021 income which is significantly higher than my 2023 income will be. I did fill out SSA-44 form and submitted it about 3 weeks ago along with evidence that I was no longer receiving payments and an estimate of my 2023 &2024 income. I then received a letter asking for payment for the first 3 months. The payments didn't include an additional IRMMA amount. Does that mean it was accepted?
Thanks for your question. Your Life Changing Event was 4 years ago, so they might not allow this...but I'm glad you submitted the appeal. It's worth a shot.
Did it get approved? I'm not sure, based on the info you provided. If the IRMAA was removed or reduced, you would get a letter that explicitly states they are removing the IRMAA. Check with the SSA office you submitted the forms to.
@@MedicareMindset Thank you for the quick reply.... No I haven't received anything concerning my SSA-44, the only clue that it might have been approved is that my Part B rates I'm being billed for the first 3 months (sep, oct, nov) don't include an IRMAA charge. So the end of payments for my business doesn't seem like a life changing event?
@@LemmingsOnGravel The payments stopping alone isn't enough. There needs to be one of the allowed life changing events (i.e. work stoppage, work reduction, death of spouse) AND a reduction of income due to the life changing event.
If you don't see IRMAA being billed, then maybe it's been approved and you might have missed the letter confirming that.
Create a Medicare.gov account and look at your billing and payment history.
Also, login to your SSA.gov account and see what is being charged for Medicare premiums.
@@MedicareMindset OK, thank you. I created a medicare.gov account and paid the amount an amount $494.70 for the first 3 months that didn't include any part B or D IRMAA amounts. I'm not drawing SS right now so I paid it online with a CC. So either it got approved or there is a lag in billing the IRMAA amounts?
@@MedicareMindset My appeal for 2023 and 2024 was approved in late December, no sure why it took so long. As an FYI: I made the case that my sale of my business was essentially 80% my retirement planning assets and that it was like I was getting a lump sum payment for a pension plan in 2022 that needed to last the rest of our lives. And I pointed out that in 2022 I paid an extra 5% in capital gains taxes and a 3.8% Medicare surcharge on the proceeds from sale of my business. Would it have been feasible to spread the payments out over 15 year I would have for a lot of tax reasons. I also told them that in 2019 when I sold the business I could have sold it outright to a company from India for cash on the day of the sale, but instead allowed two employees to purchase it which I financed which spread the sale out over 4 years…. I included a letter from the company stating that I had financed it and they had made lump sum payments, the last being in 2022.
Medicaremindset:
I retired in September of 2021. Did a 401k rollover to a IRA ( not a Roth ) with part of the funds. The rest I used to buy a property to live. That increased my annual income for that year. I’m 65 in May of this year. Got my IRMMA notice for medicare and the premium is $360 more for Part B and $70 for part D. I filled an appeal based on life changing event work stoppage in 2021. In 2022 my income is 58k. I provided an estimate for this year for $58k. I also have some health issues that keep me from getting a part time job to pay for this increase. So I wanted them to understand the financial burden this puts me in.
Do you think this would qualify for a lower premium?
Yes, it sounds like either citing your 2022 tax return info, or your 2023 estimated MAGI will totally remove IRMAA. The income dropped to a lower income range AND you had a Work Stoppage.
I was in this situation also and IRMAA was removed for the life changing event and a refund was given for unqualified funds previously deducted.
Helpful video. Thanks!
Terry - Thanks! We're glad you enjoyed it.
Great video/instruction. For clarification purposes: My income-changing event was in Mid-2022 when I 'lost my job' (separation agreement). With that occurring, I decided at 64, to take Soc Security on Dec 22. I will begin a part-time job this May 2023. Right now my IRMMA will be based on our 2021 MAGI.
2021 was our highest income jointly. 2022 will be slightly lower and 2023 will be the lowest. Should I fill out SSA 44 with 2022 actual in step 2 and the 2023 estimate in step 3 or only 2023 estimate in step 2?
Last question, even though I am only filing an IRMMA reconsideration based on my lower income, am I still filling out the "MAGI estimates" on that form for our lower "JOINT MAGI"?
Hi Bill - Assuming you're going on Medicare in 2023 and your life changing event (work stoppage) happened in 2022...then you can use either the 2022 tax return to show proof of the reduction of income on Step 2, or use a 2023 estimate on Step 2 (whichever puts you in a lower income range than the 2021 income range).
And yes, if you use an estimate, you are marking down the joint AGI estimate on the form.
I am a high income W-2 earner, and plan to stop working at the end of 2023. Income (wages) for 2024 and beyond will be $0.00, I will have passive income in 2024 and beyond but not to exceed the lowest IRMMA bracket. Before I request a IRRMA, must I first apply for Medicare part B? I am currently covered by employer health insurance, and will continue through the end of 2023. I would like to know in advance what my medicare part B premiums will be starting January 2024. I am a CPA and familiar with IRS and tax forms just not sure on the order to filing for a IRMAA waive.
Wes - You'll enroll in Part B in the months leading up to when your group health coverage will end. After that is processed and approved, you'll receive an IRMAA notice letter stating your income was high in the past, causing Part B premiums to be higher than normal. That is when you file the appeal/request for reconsideration to reduce (or eliminate) IRMAA.
Hi Andy! I filed for Medicare this year and will start June 1. I received a Medicare Premiums notice in the mail. From TY 2021 to 2022 household income will drop by 70%. 2022 taxes have been filed. Should I wait until Medicare starts before filing an appeal or should I do it now? Thank you!
Gary - Thanks for your question. You'll need to wait until you get the IRMAA notice letter stating they will be charging you a higher premium. If you have that letter...AND...you have one of the allowed Life Changing Events (i.e. Work Stoppage, Work Reduction, Death of Spouse, etc), then you can file the appeal...citing 2022 as the year income dropped due to the life changing event. Since you have your 2022 taxes done, you can provide that with the completed SSA-44, and a letter of instruction about your life changing event.
I have a question regarding a possibility of a late appeal. This is a repeat, but this question was not answered. "Is it possible to wait to file the IRMAA appeal until you complete your tax return for the year in question? For example, pay the IRMAA each month in 2023, and then when you do your 2023 taxes in early 2024 and realize that your income [for 2023] is low enough that IRMAA didn't apply for 2023, file the appeal at that time and have Medicare refund the IRMAA premiums that you paid throughout 2023)?". Many thanks for the excellent video and all the answers.
I believe the answer is yes. I say that because every SSA office seems to have their own process for IRMAA appeals. You may want to give them a call or stop in...and just confirm if they want you to submit now, or wait until you have your tax return.
Their rules state that you can run the appeal using an estimate, so the tax return is really not needed.
I would prefer that you look at your income for the year and just process the appeal now. But I understand that you might not have access to all the information to calculate a good estimate of 2023 AGI.
My wife started with Medicare in March 2023. I retired recently in Oct 2023. Our income for 2023 is in alignment with our current IRMAA assessment. However in 2024, our income will be reduced due to my retirement. Should I wait to file SSA-44 until we get a new IRMAA letter for 2024 (assuming they will send a new letter in December) or submit now using the 2023 form but put in my estimated income for 2024 in step 2.
Based on your income in 2023 being in the same range as in 2021, you wouldn't appeal the 2023 IRMAA.
But you'll appeal 2024 IRMAA. You'll get a letter in December with the IRMAA determination. Then file the appeal with Form SSA-44. Use your ESTIMATE of 2024 gross income on the form (Step 2).
How late in 2023 can I file an iRRMA appeal for a 2022 reduction in income?
The answer depends on the situation...
If you just started Part B very recently, then you have some time...a few months after Part B starts.
If you started Part B in the past, but now have IRMAA to pay in 2023, due to high income from 2021...then you really should've appealed in Dec 2022, Jan 2023, or Feb 2023. But you probably could get away with submitting it in the next few months because of filing taxes and confirming prior income.
I've retired in September 2022 and my MAGI is still is several IRMAA brackets up. My wife will start Medicare in December 2022, when filing the appeal form should I put 2022 income in step two or an estimate of 2023? Should I wait to file the appeal until 2023 and just pay the increase premiums for one month and receive a refund?
If your estimated 2022 AGI will be in a lower income range than 2020, then file the appeal now to reduce her Dec 2022 premium. Otherwise, she will pay the higher premium in Dec 2022. There wouldn't be a refund if you didn't file an appeal and get approved.
And then if 2023 estimated AGI will be in a lower income range than 2021, file the appeal again later this after the 2023 IRMAA determination letter arrives.
In both cases, you would be using an ESTIMATE of your household AGI in Step 2 of the SSA-44 form.
I retired in October 2021 but had not filed for SSA-44. Is it too late now to file for Premium year 2022 now?
Yeah, it's too late. It should've been filed in late 2021/early 2022. You can always try, though. It wouldn't hurt.
Thank You
I plan to retire next year when I turn 70, August 2023. I know my premium for Medicare B will be based on 2021 yearly income. But I plan to continue to work part time one day a week after retirement after retiring. Will my premiums be automatically readjusted by Medicare due to the change in yearly income or will I have to fill out a form in future years? Next question will this change my monthly social security check amount with the drop in income?
Thanks for your question. In order to reduce your Medicare premium (IRMAA appeal), you'll need to complete and submit Form SSA-44 in 2023. This assumes you retire in 2023 AND have a reduction of income to a lower income range compared to 2021. Medicare will NOT automatically reduce your premium in 2023. You have to file the appeal, otherwise they will go off your 2021 income to determine your 2023 premium.
And then I imagine your 2022 income will be higher, so you'll possibly need to appeal again in 2024.
As far as your Social Security retirement benefits, that's a separate thing. However, your "NET" Social Security benefit is of course impacted, as the Medicare premium is deducted from your Social Security benefit.
Let say one year a stock sale increase our IRMAA. While me and my spouse was retired and on medicare. What box will I check the next year when our income reduces under 194,000. What date will I use for Life-Changing Event?
Technically, you don't have a legit Life Changing Event. The most common are Work Stoppage and Work Reduction. You need a reduction of income to a lower range AND an allowed life changing event to file an appeal. More detail is here: www.medicaremindset.com/sep
You certainly can try, but the SSA office may reject it.
Thank you for your information, yes the form is very confusing and even speaking to a SS rep, doesn't offer much in the way of clarification. We have a life changing event, a work force reduction for in 2023. We are paying higher IRMMA based on 2021 tax year. One income has been slashed effectively 2 months into this year and we are having to pay higher IRMMA rates based on 2021. We will probably elect to take Unemployment, but no guarantee he will get another job (at his age and may even elect to retire), do we complete the form in step 2 as Tax Year 2023 with adjusted gross income minus his salary? The intent is to reduce the current IRMMA, which we are no longer in a position to pay. Thank you for this video, very helpful.
Donna - Choose whichever year is lower. If 2022 AGI will be in the lowest income range, use that. Include a copy of your 2022 tax return, if it’s done. But if 2023 is in a lower income range than 2022, use 2023. Provide a letter of instruction summarizing all the income sources that got you to the estimated AGI figure.
But you mentioned subtracting income. You need to include all income sources that are taxable in the estimated figure. Do not subtract income sources.
Good luck!
If i payoff my mortgage using my IRA monies my income for that year will be high but be back to normal later. Will IRMMA take that as a life changing event?
Unfortunately, no. That alone is not a life changing event. it needs to be one of the 8 events listed on the form (i.e. work stoppage, work reduction, divorce, death of spouse are the four most common). So your plan to use your IRA money to payoff your mortgage would only be okay if it happened to coincide with say a retirement, for example, around the same time. I recommend you consider speaking with a financial advisor whether paying off your mortgage with a big IRA withdrawal is appropriate in the first place...and especially with the IRMAA impact. If your mortgage rate is super low (likely much lower than current rates)...you don't necessarily need to rush to pay it off.
One more thing...you could consider splitting your mortgage payoff into two chunks...one part of it here in late 2022 and then the rest in 2023. This would then spread out the income impact over two years, rather than one large increase in one year. Depending on where your numbers are at, you could potentially avoid IRMAA altogether. Again, consult with a financial advisor and a tax professional to discuss this topic and the idea I floated. One of my clients did this in the past and it worked well for them.
Good luck to you! :)
Very helpful thank you very much!!!
Glad you found the video helpful. :o)
Great info. Thanks !!!
I have a question This year 2023 my husband and I will applied to Medicare part B We will receive a higher premium for that. My husband was laid off two weeks ago but for the severance package our income will be higher for this year Until next year will be lower Can I appeal next year ?
Yes, you can appeal for 2024, based on the 2023 retirement. Since 2023 will still be high income, you’ll have to use an estimate of 2024 adjusted gross income on the appeal form. The 2024 IRMAA notice letter will arrive by mail around this December. Appeal at that time.
I am retired and in 2020 I purchased a home of which I sold some stock to put down a 20% down payment and therefore increased my tax return substantially when I filed in 2021. This was a one-time event yet it put me into a high tax bracket that year for my Medicaire premium in 2023. All of my other tax returns from years before are substaintially lower. Can I appeal this one time life event? Again next year will be back to my normal earnings for my tax return. TIA
Carol - A one-time high income year alone won't allow you to appeal. You need to ALSO have a life changing event in order to appeal. The most typical are: Work Stoppage, Work Reduction, Divorce, Death of Spouse. If none of those things happened in the past 1-2 years, then you will not be able to appeal this. But once you get into 2024, your Medicare premiums will automatically drop, assuming 2022 income is back to normal for you.
As others have stated, this is an extremely helpful video. Thanks so much for putting it together! I do have one question. I received an IRMAA notice for 2023 and I want to appeal it because I retired earlier in 2022, so my income in 2023 will be lower than my 2021 income. I downloaded form SSA-44, but it's dated 12-2021 and it has the IRMA brackets for 2022, not 2023. So it appears that the form for 2023 has not been created by the Social Security Administration yet. Can I use this 12-2021 form (with the 2022 brackets) to appeal my 2023 IRMAA?
Thanks! Yes, you can use that version of the form. They will update it sometime this month or next month, but the prior version will still work during this interim time frame.
@@MedicareMindset Thank you so much!
Very good, thanks! One question that confuses me: It seems that in one place both you and the form say for Step 2 to go back two years, so that would be 2020. But on the form for Step 2 they very specifically say, "Fill in the tax year in which your income was reduced by the life-changing event." I retired in mid-2021so my income is much lower than 2020. Is it okay to put in for Step 2, 2021? Or does Step 2 always have to be two years back? Thank you!
It looks like you're confusing Step 2. Medicare is already looking at your 2020 income right now, so you don't need to provide 2020 income data. You need to provide income figures for the year your income was reduced by the life changing event. So if 2021 is the year your income dropped, then enter 2021 for Step 2. And since you've likely filed your 2021 taxes by now, include a copy of your 1040 when you submit the form to your local SSA office.
For Step 3, just choose NO.
@@MedicareMindset That was the plan, thanks for confirming what I thought. Quick aside: I was flummoxed by why SSA went back two years, and not one. My mind was going through all the financial implications and I could not really find one. Then, another source I found seemed to imply that it a technical limitation: The IRS simply could not get all the returns over to SSA in a timely fashion, and also, many returns are in a state of flux. So, they go back two years when the returns are much more stable. If correct, this is a great example of Occam's razor: When presented with multiple possible solutions, the simplest is most likely the best. Again, thanks! -ted
@@theodorekahn You're exactly right! It needs to be 2 years ago, since most won't have their previous year's tax return completed when they enroll in Medicare. :)
It is three months now since the local SSA received my SSA-44. They still have not processed it (as far as I know). I called them after a month, and they verified they have the form I submitted. In the meantime, I'm being charged a lot more money for my Medicare Advantage plan. Question: Once they process and approve my SSA-44, do you know if they reimburse me for the higher premiums that were taken out of my Social Security check while I was waiting for them to complete my paperwork?
Karin - That's definitely frustrating SSA is taking so long to process your SSA-44. Just hang in there and keep their feet to the fire...respectfully. Yes, you will be reimbursed for any premiums you shouldn't have paid, if the appeal/request for reconsideration is approved.
Note: Your Medicare Advantage plan is not more expensive because of high income...rather, your Medicare premiums are higher because of high income.
@@andystamas Thank you for the quick reply. Just after I made the comment, the video was ending and I saw you explained that the reimbursement will come. I guess I need to practice patience :). I will call them tomorrow, too.
I was "retired" by my company in 2018. I have been recieving annual distributions from a non-qualified 401k type program which could not be rolled over and the distributions show as regular W2 income. Those just ended June 2022. So that income will still show on my 2022 return even though they have now stopped. Do I have to wait until 2023 to appeal or can I document this to show the income will no longer be forthcoming?
Hi Dave - Thanks for your question. From my view, I don't think this would be a successful appeal. Your retirement is just too far out to legitimately say that your income was reduced by a recent retirement. In order for an appeal to work, there needs to be a life changing event relatively recently (usually within the past 2-3 years) AND a reduction of income to a lower income range than the year Medicare is looking at (currently 2020 right now for 2022 premiums).
It's entirely up to you if you want to appeal using form SSA-44. There's certainly no harm in trying, but I do want you to manage your expectations here. Additionally, appeals normally need to happen right around the time someone's Part B begins OR in the beginning of the year when the new Medicare premiums are implemented. They likely won't accept your paperwork here in July.
Your income is clearly reduced in 2022, so that will help you when you're in 2024...assuming you get into a lower income range. Good luck to you! :o)
@@andystamas Good info, thanks for the reply. Looks like I would have a better chance in January. Thanks.
I retired in mid November 2021. My 2021 income is very close to my 2020 income but under IRMAA but my 2022 income will be much less than the last 2 years. Do I put in my 2021 income or my estimated 2022 income as I retired in 2021?
Ron - Since we're in 2022, enter your estimated 2022 adjusted gross income on page 2 step 2. 2022 is the year your income was impacted by the life changing event in late 2021, right? If 2022 is lower than 2021, then go with the 2022 estimate. And then you can appeal again for 2023 if 2021 was a high income year also.
I am on ssdi and I have had the premium deducted from my benefit payments from the begining.recently my case worker said she wasn't sure why they were taking the payments because of my low income i qualified for state insurance and programs that would have covered the cost and that I could possibly be reimbursed for all those payments...I have scoured the internet and am just more confused as to how to go about filing I think its called a premium claim??? Is there any merit to what she said?any information would be really appreciated thanks
Jake - Thanks for your question. If you feel you're eligible for Medicaid or a Medicare Savings Program, you should reach out to your state's department of Medicaid or county department of job & family services. You can apply through them. If you're eligible, then you won't pay the Medicare Part B premium.
I'm trying to understand IRMAA and More Importantly the 2 year look back for IRMAA determination.
My birthday month/year is 12-1962, December 1962. To apply for Medicare I have the 7 Month window [09/2027-03/2028] 3 months before my birthday month, My birthday month, and 3 months after my birthday month without suffering an increase in lifetime cost for Medicare.
Makes sense, if I apply during 09/2027-12/2027, that the 2 year look back to determine IRMAA would be on my 2025 Federal Tax return.
If I apply for my Medicare in 01/2028-03/2028 would my IRMAA 2 year look back be on my 2026 Federal Tax Return?
Hello - Thanks for your question. The initial 2yr look-back will be based on when Part B starts. So if Part B starts in 2026, they will look at 2024 tax returns. If it starts in 2027, they will look at 2025 tax returns.
And then every year after that, they will send you a notice in November/December time frame regarding what your premiums will be for the following year. For example, a letter will arrive in late 2027 with information about your 2028 Medicare premiums, which are based on 2026.
Fun, right!?
@@andystamas Actually, Andy, it's not bad if what you say is correct. (I incorrectly dated my part B application period which I have corrected on my original post)
Why I asked my question is I'm in the middle of SUBSTANTIAL ROTH CONVERSIONS during the period of TCJA [Tax Cuts & Jobs Act] which sunsets at the end of the 2025 Federal Tax year.
If what you say is correct, my final Substantial ROTH conversion in the 2025 federal tax year would NOT be considered for the IRMAA determination (as long as my part B starts in 2028)
@@wallace_n_gromit3180 Great! That works well then.
Irma is bs the price for alllllll should be the same!!!!!
Since these folks already paid considerably higher Medicare FICA taxes in that higher income earning year, I tend to agree with you.