The problem with progress photos.
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2023
- Hey everybody! Today we’re diving into the problem with progress photos. This is a super nuanced subject that I believe fitness professionals need to be wary of how they use them. Let me know what you think down below!
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My 16 year-old daughter asked me for some good online resources for exercise and information. Your channel was one of the ones I mentioned. Thank you for being a reasonable voice in a very gimmicky industry.
Oh wow I'm honored!! Thank you Derek!
Thank god! You’re a great mom! Justina has helped me so much and helped my mindset! She is truly educated and well spoken! Justina thanks so much ❤❤
Something that bugs me about some fitness influencers: SO many of them have past easting disorders or disordered eating and that was the primary motivator for entering into the fitness industry in the first place. I think they should have to go through mandatory counseling before consulting other people on their fitness and nutrition. People who have been OBSESSED with their bodies and food have a really skewed idea of what the general public knows about general fitness (speaking from personal experience). I'm glad your channel is so focused on honesty and calling out this bs. Sincerely, someone who struggled with an ED for 10+ years and would never think of imposing my own shit on people paying me actual money 🙃
THIS RIGHT HERE!
I agree! I had an eating disorder myself and it was a part of why I was doing a load of exercise. These things kind of last forever even when you believe you've overcame them! It can be very dangerous that people with issues go advising others out there, often without the right training to do so!
I feel this way about Linda Sun…
@@kpinthebubble oh I can't even watch her videos. Every single one is a life changing revelation, which either tells me that A) she's in no place to be giving advice bc she has no grasp on long term health or B) is 100% playing the algorithm to take advantage of views.
I'm totally open to the convo! I think the second you put out any kind of workout guide or nutrition plan (which she did with Lilly Sabri), you are branding yourself as an "expert."
I really appreciate you calling out people like Maddie. Stuff like this is just so unethical and disingenuous. I hate this "I'm just sharing my journey :)" crap. People with so much influence are *not able* to just share their journey without consequences, even without selling a workout program or protein powder. They will always influence people. You and your transparency are a breath of fresh air, Justina!
It’s totally a cop out
You are SO right and so right to call Maddie out on it. I like her dance workouts, I haven't tried her strength, but the whole "my program is 50% off" after telling "her journey" is LITERALLY an ad and it shocks me people don't see this. There's another online fitness coach who I do like but it always bugs me when she posts her "before she ever started creating this program" and "after many many times of doing this program + a few minicuts along the way" photos (the latter of which she is flexing her abs LOL) and (I think inadvertently) insinuates we're going to look like that after her multiple thousand dollar nutrition and exercise program.
Unfortunately we’re so engrained as a society with these misconceptions around fitness that most don’t even notice it :(
I also have mixed feelings about Maddie. If you watch her RUclips videos when she was a vegan, they were like "I feel so happy, I had a lot of good changes because I'm a vegan blah blah" plus the before/ after photos. Now, she realized she wasn't happy when she was vegan and decided to sell a different program. Make up your mind girl!!! 🤣
Love you Justina! Thank you so much for providing us with the best educational content! 💚💚💚
You’re so welcome!
I'm always skeptical of these kinds of pictures because I'm sure there are so many ways to manipulate them with lighting, poses, clothing, etc. I'm sure there are many tricks that influencers use to make the differences in the before and after more jaw-dropping!
Oh 1000000%
Great video. I also don't like the "progress" photos where people might actually be wearing the same clothes, but differently, like the pants are pushed higher or lower on the waist, or it's a different angle. If you want to show me the difference you achieved by doing xyz show me an actual comparison by copying the same circumstances from the first photo...
PS: "Never trust a photo you haven't edited yourself" a colleague of mine used to say, absolutely true hahaha
hahahaha that's a great rule
Recently found your channel. You are such a voice of reason/sanity and provide so much knowledge for regular folks like me just trying to get into better shape and healthier lifestyles. Thank you!
so happy to have you here!
I’m so grateful to have you and other awesome online coaches calling out stuff like this. I definitely have a much more critical eye when it comes to these kinds of pitches, claims, etc. and it’s in no small part due to your videos.
And I'm grateful for YOU!
I adore this channel, I belive you're doing a massive service to your audience, especially to those who might have issues navigating all the bs in the fitness industry.
I'm so glad you're enjoying :)
Such a great video! When I started my fitness journey back almost 9 years ago after having my daughter, I used progress photos. For. Years. Because of some of the things you were talking about. But I was obsessed with losing weight, and I wanted my pre mommy bod. Que obsessive calorie counting, over exercising, feeling burnt out. I no longer do progress photos because of my mental health and I'm working on a better relationship with food and exercise.
Everyone is different and I'm so happy that you were able to identify something that wasn't healthy for you :)
I like this for so many reasons. Especially emphasizing that following a program will not make you look like the person who developed the program. Outside of genetics other things can affect your body. I have had 3 (large!) babies. Unless I had plastic surgery I couldn't have six pack abs, no matter what my nutrition/exercise plan was. This can happen if someone has lost a lot of weight and has extra skin, etc....
Thanks for all you do!! It helps out so many people!
Thank you so much for sharing part of your experience Nicole!
it’s not just selling the “this is my body after i did this!” it’s also the promise that you can “eat without restriction” part that she’s selling. and i don’t think that sentiment is wrong in itself, but selling her journey as a program is very,, ethically interesting haha.
OOOOH I didn't even catch that! Selling a workout program with the promise of curing restrictive eating habits is no bueno.
Just keep doing what you do, you‘re amazing!
Ok 2 things because I love you. 1) I think another huge problem is influencers who post use pictures of themselves at an arguably ‘unhealthy’ point in their restrictive diets/over exercising as an ‘after’. More specifically, Sarah’s Day (my absolute worst nemesis in the fitness influencer industry) has come out and said that when she was her ‘most fit’ she was actually severely under eating, depressed, and had lost her period… yet for YEARS she was using pictures of herself from that time to sell her (shitty) programs. I got blocked when I DM’ed her about it. Lol. 2) This is kind of in the same vein as this video… Would love to see your thoughts on the ‘posed vs unposed’ trend I’ve been seeing on TikTok… aka influencers finally post something unposed with a corny ass caption about like ‘what you don’t see on instagram
100% makes sense!
I really love your perspective on how to think about movement and body image ❤
thank you elena :)
The “…well, people should know that X won’t lead to Y” part is so true. I’ve been working out for decades, and I remember, myself, even believing those “Burn 1000 Calories” Pinterest workouts worked - like they would actually help everyone burn 1000 calories. At this point, of course, I understand how false and misleading that was. Back then, though, not so much.
Awesome points throughout your video about marketing with more integrity in the health industry ❤
Justina, always the voice of reason.
:)
A lot of great insight in this, very valid points!
Glad you think so!
Hi Justina! I first want to say that I am SO glad I found your channel a couple of months ago and I have learned more from you in these couple of months than I have learned in years. I have also been recommending your channel and videos to my three daughters. My 13-year-old is already falling into the trap of the gimmicks and obsessing over comparing herself to these fitness "influencers" who are really just teaching these young girls to feel more insecure about their body image. It infuriates me when she shows me these influencers and celebrities that she is constantly comparing herself to and watching their "what I eat in a day," unrealistic fitness goals, and causing her to already have food fear.
With that being said, I want to thank you for your brutal honesty about fitness and nutrition.
I wanted to ask if you would be able to provide a review on a fitness influencer that I found last year. Her RUclips channel is FitbyMik. I do really enjoy her workouts and she does offer these workouts free on her channel. I am curious to know what you think.
Thank you again!
Oh wow thank you for sharing my channel with them! It means a lot that you trust my message ❤️
@@JustinaErcole You're very much welcome and thank you for your response❤ You're making a big difference for many! I know you have a very hectic schedule (I don't know how you do it all!) but if you have a chance to review FitbyMik that would be awesome!!
I learned about the impossibility of spot reducing in 9th grade health class… I thought everyone else did too and that we were all participating in the marketing process. Like I know that if I drink Dos Equis, I will not be the most interesting woman in the world but I still love the ad campaign. So people are out here soaking the livers in beer and waiting for something interesting to happen… I thought these were things people say (2 week abs etc)not things anybody believed wow! I don’t always learn something on RUclips but when I do I prefer JET. Stay educated my friends
WOW I wish! I never even learned how to feed myself, let alone what spot reduction was.
I can talk from the perspective of a person who has worked at an online store who has faked before and after pictures in several kind of product photos … my suggestion would be don’t trust before and after photos because there are so many ways to manipulate them…. This was the reason why I have quit the job and went to another company. Sometimes it’s just really a lot of work at Photoshop and sometimes you have a before and after model and it’s just two different persons and you copy and paste the bellybutton or you can just see that it is another person in the after picture 😅 and you just have two times and you don’t see things like weight cycles with this pictures…. When the weight is gained back the people normally disappear or restart. And I also don’t like photos like this because they are very triggering for me and my form of eating disorders
The problem was that getting slimmer never make me happier because I always choose said a very unhealthy way to torture myself to get slim and ignoring body signals …. Nowadays it’s a lot more of how I feel about my body and I can’t capture this in before and after pictures (and fun fact I have never made any before and after pictures even in my disordered eating decade)
@@Start.a.curvolution Yes! I recently saw someone say somewhere that, and I am probably paraphrasing here, "It can't be your dream body if it is a nightmare to maintain," and that really puts it into stark perspective for me.
@@jessicaharrison4719 Could have been me because I spent over a decade to get this so-called dream body and it was never thin or fit enough for me 😥 and I am really happy that we talk about doing sports and fitness not in a way against our body but with our body and for for our body in a loving and caring way because this is what I have learnt in my millennial youth… and this hate against my body wasn’t healthy not only for my mental health but also for my physical health, fortunately I’m a plus size fitgirl now and I don’t care about when other people think I can’t do sports because I know better and I feel a lot better and my past feels like a fever dream….Because all that time in this decade I felt very numb
thank you for sharing your insight!
I couldn't appreciate more how you focus on actual fitness factors like feeling and moving better rather than just how your body looks.
Recently blogilates did a long post ranting about how she was frustrated that some big fashion brand stole her design. It is funny because she herself got to that level through shady means. Maybe karma exists.
Love your video, thanks for talking about this issue. I had ED in the past, and honestly find a lot of progress triggering for me. Even reputable fitness persons (if you're interested I could name you) sell their programs with fotos that in my opinion are problematic. Like 90 days challenge winners. Those are people who became super shredded, results that are unachievable for 99% of people. Then you try and you don't see results and feel a failure. Seeing those fotos makes me angry because they could make you depressed or trigger an ED or unhealthy behaviours...
100%!
Absolutely agree!
I agree with you and I like Maddie and use her workouts (but only on RUclips). It just sucks cause I'm sure most of the fitness influencers have good intentions but they have to run a business and hustle at the end of the day which can lead to a negative impact. I think having disclaimers and being upfront about their workouts and everything (reminding people nutrition is important and that every body is different and might not necessarily look EXACTLY like theirs) is essential but there are still many fitness influencers out there who don't do that.
It’s totally a tough area to navigate! Thanks for sharing your opinion ❤️
I've been binging your videos (love them!) and I keep wondering where's your hot pink workout tank from? I love that shade of pink and it suits you so well!
Welcome to my little corner of the internet! Do you know which video you saw it in? I can't remember a hot pink tank.
I just seen her picture on Ig last night lol. I don’t even know who she is lol. Thank you for this info! It’s very helpful and inspiring!
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video as usual. While the fitness influencer I believe bears some responsibility to be truthful and realistic with their audience, it's also important to be realistic about your goals and do some research and inform yourself. Although the amount of people who still ask how can I reduce fat on body part X is staggering.
100%!
Yes to all of this. All of it.
:)
Off topic. Your arms are beautiful!!!
What do you think about April Whitney‘s program? She talks a lot about the petite body.
Lately, as I'm figuring out what I want to do with my fitness education, I've been thinking a lot about this kind of thing. Something that seems common, whether it's a fitpro or a successful influencer in the health/fitness sphere, is that tendency to "forget" or overlook the fact that your job is fitness-related. Now, that is not at ALL to say "it's easy to be fit and ripped when you work in the fitness industry" because toxic culture, hectic days, overworking your body, all these things can definitely have an adverse effect on your wellness, aesthetically and otherwise. But just like not using your body as your business card, it's so important to remember that if you film workout videos every day, and that's how you make money, you have an advantage over someone who works a sedentary desk job, or has a new baby, or, or, or. That doesn't mean most of us, regardless of lifestyle, can't prioritize some kind of healthy change, but....yeah, you get what I'm saying, right?
Great video, on point, as usual. Not a huge Madfit fan since her workouts aren't really my style, but glad to hear she's doing a lot of it right, and I hope she keeps doing better. Love coming along on your Hold Fitpros Accountable adventure ;)
Thank you for your content I really appreciate it and have learned so much!! I would enjoy your take on another wellness buzzword: balance your hormones. I made the "mistake" the other day of Googling this and now every ad wants me to buy a supplement or embark on a nutrition/fitness program to fix my "problem." What's your take on this?
Oooh great suggestion. Essentially, unless you are working with an endocrinologist, I don’t think you should take advice from someone about balancing your hormones :)
I watched the whole video and I completely agree with you, truly, but I wanted to let you know that if you're putting out a program called "90 days to perfect arms like mine", I'm 100% buying it. Just saying.
Hahahhha well i will never do that but thank you for the compliment❤️
I noticed on the MadFit app, the nutrition calculation section is gone. There’s just recipes on there now. Unless I missed it, I thought it was weird to just quietly remove that section without acknowledging it was problematic 🐸☕️
Ughhhhh that’s totally not cool. The nutrition calculator and tracker was soooo problematic and to simply remove it without being like “hey all, I messed up and here’s how I’m fixing it” is such BS.
Even when I was out of shape I never really gained any weight. I always thought these photos were dumb because it’s easy to lose weight that doesn’t mean you are in shape. It means nothing to me lol
Progress photos are not great for several reasons - you can change the way someone looks a ton just with lighting and posing and clothing, they often imply that being smaller and taking up less space is the goal (at least for women) and it is something nearly as easy to obsess over as the numbers (scale weight, calorie counts, amount of working out). Not to mention, progress photos are entirely focused on the aesthetic of a body. The one thing I am trying to get to is to live in my body without constantly thinking about how it looks, which is so hard as someone raised female!
I am working on healing from a long term ED (under eating, over exercising, struggling to eat when I am hungry, etc., leading to a few injuries) and I know that progress photos are not good for my mental health at this point in my healing. I see people at the beginning of their journeys with healthy eating and fitness and tracking and progress photos are something they can do to see results from their work, but I know first hand how that, if you have an addictive or obsessive personality like I do, can devolve into weighing yourself multiple times a day, avoiding things (even "healthy" things like water) that make your weight go up, over exercising, under eating, measuring your food and your body obsessively... You get it. I don't want anyone to see what I went through for 15 plus years as normal or healthy, and I don't want anyone to have to be as miserable as I can still make myself about my body.
Whew. That took a turn and got personal, but I stand by it. Thanks for being a beacon of light in the dark and dank tunnel that is diet culture! You truly help so much in resetting so many of the unhealthy mindsets I have had for so long.
Thank you so much for sharing your insight!
I dont take photos. I do take measurements as well as feeling progress that I can do more reps or lift a little heavier.
I’m glad you’ve found a way to measure your progress that works for you!
Maddie do that. I really don't appreciate it.
Thank you Justina
Oh you talk about her in the video. Sorry. I was in the beginning.
Hi all good! You read my mind :)
What’s the difference between someone selling their services based on the results they achieved working with other people compared to results they achieved working on themselves? Which is better and which is more appropriate because both lanes your selling your services? I think the only issue is telling someone you can look like me because everyone’s body is different. With that being said I don’t think their is anything wrong with showing people your own personal results to sell your services if your honest about how you got there.
So much to unpack here and great questions!
Selling services based on your client's results is not super problematic to me. I don't do it, but I don't mind when others do if it's done in good taste. If a client came to you with an aesthetic goal and you're showing that you helped them achieve that, I think that's great. But saying you can get someone else to look like THEM or YOU with a specific program is deceiving, manipulative, and unrealistic.
As always, these are my opinions :)
Thats 100% true,its selling unrealistic expectation to people that are just trying to heal their relationship with their bogys
Bodys
!!!
I gotta say your arms look amazing … if I do your workouts, will I get them too?!! 😂😂
😂😂😂 you know the answer. But thank you!
For a second I thought this was about grow with jo (she does this sistematicaly) and what a wild turn took when you spook about Maddie. But yeah, there's way too many people doing business like this and that needs to change.
Oh yeah I’ve talked about her before. Love her personality and think she has the best of intentions. But problematic marketing.
@@JustinaErcole I watched that. She seems really nice and friendly but her thumbnails showing how her workout made her "melt of her belly fat" (bc what else i'm supposed to think with al the sweat and pointing at her midsection poses) is something that keeps me scrolling away from her workouts as fast as I can.
I like to play a little game whenever there's a seemingly innocuous post of any kind from blogilates: see how long until I can spot the promotion. Eg "omg you guys I love pancakes! "---> "here's a recipe for protein pancakes with blogilates protein powder " etc. I feel like I've never seen, at least lately, one thing that was a share without being some kind of self-promo over there.
LOL she’s definitely the queen of that
I think this kind of advertising mostly gets those who just begin their fitness journey and culturally speaking those who want to be just like x y or z. Where I come from idolising people is a rare thing. I genuinely don't care what someone else did to get to where they are. Add to that an interest in the scientific side of training and this kind of advertising doesn't even register to me. I also suspect my RUclips algorithm stopped suggesting things like this to me, add to that my total lack of social media and TikTok,et presto: no suggestions for two week abs.
100%!
Thanks for the video! Spot on as always! It would be great if you did some review on Melissa Neill. She offers very useful content for over 40s and 50s (I am 52), or so I think. But not sure about some of the generalizations she makes and not sure about her workouts either, sometimes it seems things are a bit... questionable. I don't think that she's qualified, if she said I didn't see it. I some times think, well, whit the things I learnt over the years and the state of my body I could be babbling in RUclips for ages, but would it be really useful, or would it be misleading? Because I am sure that I am genetically ok, my body shape is quite good in relation to beauty standards, I always did exercise, I obsessed about nutrition, so that means I have an advantage in relation to possible costumers or viewers, but also I don't really have the knowledge to go advising others. So I think some youtubers are a bit like this, and maybe they should take the relevant qualifications, since they want to sell a product that involves other people's health, before even considering opening the channel. I know this is in line with things you've said in your channel before.
Melissa Neill is trying to target the 40+ crowd. It seems to me that she thinks (or wants us to think) we need a different lifestyle just because of our age. I think a lot of her tips are problematic. I'm not magically different once turning 40. Yeah, my body looks different, but that was mostly because I had kids, and complications after 2 births. I am stronger than I was in my 20s and 30s because I train harder and more effectively. And I have more time to go to the gym and cook more balanced meals because my kids are older now.
Life does change as we get older, but we don't need training specific to our age. It should be specific to our abilities. I steer clear of anything that is trying to target me just because of my age.
Never heard of her, I'll have to give it a google :)
@@allison5487 I agree with some of what you say, I don't follow her workouts and don't exercise in a specific way for the most part, but also I have seen a big difference in results once I reached menopause one year ago (52 now). Some of these things, Melissa talks about. It is a big change, it feels like suddenly I'm "old" in so many ways... Recovery is slower, I need collagen intake to avoid join pains, more consistent exercise for good results... There are loads of things that change because of the menopause. Another thing I noticed is restless legs, I didn't have this before perimenopause, only targeted exercise changes this... So I have to be much more consistent and more specific or strategic to stay strong and energetic. Strength training has been of great help, as you lose muscle very fast after menopause, this was not the case when younger.
It seems like Mari Llewellyn does this exact thing using her viral before and after photos to sell her Bloom Nutrition. I’m so sick of seeing those bloom ads by influencers
OMG I DONT TRUST ANYONE USING BLOOM 😂
I'm ok with taking photos, but I also think you should keep them for yourself....
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Same concept with FDOE WIEIAD stuff with body checking.
On another note…kinda in line with your nutrition advice…would love to see you do a video on the topic of ‘mother prevalence of food labels like ‘plant-based’ ‘gluten free’ ‘vegan’ etc. like oats are already gluten free. Are they gonna start putting ‘plant-based’ labels on bags of spinach now?
Oats are typically being processed in plants that also process gluten containing grains, so they're more likely to be cross contaminated with gluten, which could be devastating for someone with celiac's or a similar condition. In that sense, a GF third party certification makes sense.
@@b3thamphetamine I understand that but you could make that argument for soooo many foods being cross contaminated. I’m mainly talking about susceptible consumers who will buy anything that says gluten free
Companies will market things in ANY way possible to make them seem like the "healthiest" option - which is silly because healthy means something different to everyone. I'd definitely do a video on food marketing because it's wild how many people thing gluten free = healthy and/or will make me lose weight. It's alllllll marketing.
As someone who's struggled with wt my entire life, (and I'm aware this is a me problem) I find it knocks the wind out of my sails when their "I looked horrible" before pic/wt is: 1.actually where I worked my a$$ off to be. Or 2. a lot less than I currently weigh. I wish they'd keep these private, I can't help but compare and it's always a gut punch!
Totally a valid point!
Did you not say in that previous video that you tried to reach out to Madfit and she blocked you? I wish she did not do that. I like her content for the most part... But I do not see the point of engaging with any RUclips acct if my comments are not worth my trouble to the author.
She didn't block me, just never responded :) But I agree with you that it's exhausting seeing all of these fitness creators who blatantly ignore feedback.
I've seen people say that Madfit was posting some anti-vax stuff last year as well as supporting the trucker convoy in Canada, which is enough for me to not support her. I don't want work outs by someone who doesn't even believe in science, let alone other stuff.
oh damn, do you know where she said it? I can imagine this, she's always had this appeal to nature mindset and anti-vax is not far from that...
@@heyspeckle8782 Sadly I think it was only on her insta stories so there is no proof left on her profile. I only saw this a few months later on a youtube gossip discord where people were talking about it.
That 100% happened. I saw it on her personal page, not the madfit one