Thats a great line. 90% of the painters I knew were drunks. Not saying your father was. We replaced drunk as a sailor, with drunk as a painter. haha Or if somebody was drunk and loud at a party or in a restaurant/bar and we couldn't see them, we would say, probably a drunken painter. haha
Thanks for the great video as always! I bought one of these ML series amps brand new and had it for a couple years. Mine worked incredibly well, and I loved the V Type speakers so much that I bought a closed back 2x12 cab and put in a V Type and a WGS Invader 50. What a great pair, and they sound wonderful together with my Matchless 30/15, 1965 Tremolux, and Vox AC30. Super versatile.
Working primarily on old hi-fi gear in my day job, the debris I most commonly find inside screwheads is wood fiber. A lot of equipment arrives without the original feet underneath, and they were either removed in order to fit the unit into a cabinet with minimal height, or perhaps they were snapped off at some point. Sliding the equipment in-and-out of a shelving unit or cabinet without feet under it means that the screws get full of wood fiber from the shelf material. I end up scraping it out with a dental pick.
Had my four year old very carefully looked after ML model apart recently. I found a bad solder joint on the shield wire going to the first stage tube which caused popping and crackling. Also noticed the two 330R R78/9 do still get very hot dropping ~16V. I had some slight discolouration on the back of the board, not too late to replace but be aware it is still a design issue even though they dissipate less. Thanks for the great video!
I had one of these. About 3 months after purchase, I would play for about 5-10 minutes when there would be a pop and the volume would drop about 20-25%. Brought it to two Fender licensed techs in the area who couldn’t replicate the issue, and my video/audio samples weren’t enough. Sold it and got a Supersonic 22
I wish there was like, an instrument courier service or something. I have a saxophone that got shipped domestically to me - gorgeous vintage piece, freshly repadded, had its tone holes leveled at some point which they all need after the factory. Basically everything you could want, and it was wrapped up really well! But took a 600 NZD service to get it back to where it should be because all the keywork was out of whack. And it sucks, but sometimes the only convenient way to get something from A to B is to pay someone else. (I also love that thing about tightening the nuts - "but ya didn't." Reminds me of the classic joke about the broken machine and the invoice, and also makes me think I should start to charge a cleaning fee for guitars. Sure they could've cleaned the fretboards, but they didn't.)
The speaker mounting issues and baffle issues on this one pale in comparison to the JCM800 412 I got a few years ago. I nearly had to build a new one inside the old cabinet. I think there were 4 different sizes and lengths screws holding the back on, and most were stripped.
I used to have delville and I hated because it’s was so loud and I could never get it to spot i like it. No joke it was up there with my 100 watt amp. When I switch to a ac30 huge difference
Even with an attenuator on it, I couldn’t get it to where it operates best, around 6-8, so after a year of constant adjustment in live and practice spaces and never being happy with it, I sold it and also picked up an ac30.
Even when T-nuts are used, I don't consider 4 bolts sufficient to hold anything bigger than an 8" speaker. Also, T-nuts don't hold well in a particleboard baffle; they really should be glued into the baffle by the factory, but this can be a pain for the amp's owner or a tech to do after the baffle already has grill cloth on it.
@@bayougtr T-nuts are installed by tapping into the wood or in this case particle board. The integral nails on the underside of the T-nuts will bite into plywood or solid wood well enough, but they don't hold very well in particle board, especially if there's there's humidity and moist air. I don't know if Fender puts any glue underneath or around them when they install them, but if they did, and used a good glue/ gluing technique, they probably would not come loose. I have used epoxy glue on the underside of the flanges of the T-nuts to make sure they don't come loose, which might be more trouble than fender is willing to do. If they were already installed and seemed to be fairly solid, I would consider using some water thin super glue that would wick in underneath the flange and into the particle board and make it resemble concrete. Of course you have to be very careful not to get it in the threads; or perhaps you grease up a bolt and run it into the T-nut so that it prevents super glue from clogging the threads.
Those are called PEM nuts and they are swaged into the chassis with a rather expensive looking tool. I just went through this with a two year old Blues Junior that had one turning and one missing. They are also used on the Supro reissues. The fault with these is that if the screw has the least bit of drag because of crappy threads it is easy to break them loose like the one you have here. I bought a rivnut squeezer-a good one-and a box of steel rivnuts for this purpose.
Yes, you can get a kit with installation tooling on Amazon. Smallest metric size is M3. BTW PEM style nuts will hold up to push out / torque out specs if all of the installation data is properly met (hole size, force, etc.)
@@twinreverbteleguy1 I didn't see em anywhere but I didn't look too hard. You can get a good rivet nut puller like I did for about thirty dollars and they work well. I could not find a price for the Pemserter Micromate tool. For what Pemnuts do in guitar amps from Fender and Supro, they're not suitable for small operations where rivnuts are eminently suitable especially if you dip them in epoxy before you clinch 'em. Plus, when a Pemnut falls out the hole's already too big to clinch another of the same size. You could clinch pemnuts but you'd need a press to do it and access.-the Micromate is good for 2,500 pounds of force.
@@1Dougloid , For that Peavy 5150 amp the most convenient way to mount the output board back in place in the chassie would be if the tube-socket flanges had threaded fittings instead of holes. The riv nut fittings I've seen start at 6-32 and the outside diameter of those rivnuts is probably too large to fit the holes in most tube sockets. I did look at the Car mcmaster website and the smallest diameter metric rivnuts they had, M3 or M4 I forget which, were also similar in outside diameter to the 6 - 32 rivnuts. I suspect that the mounting holes in the flanges of typical octal tube sockets would need to be reamed out slightly in order to fit these rivnuts. It occurs to me that perhaps one could install brass or aluminum pop rivets into the tube socket flanges, knock out the little nail head piece that usually stays behind, and then you could use small self tap screws that will thread right into the flanges of the tube socket. I don't know how well this would work in practice but it should work in theory.
I have lots of fender amps..old and new..This is one of the best sounding amps i ever heard..My only problem is the volume control...Its way too loud on 1..Is it a big deal to put a master volume on this amp?..I have seen the Fromel MV mod you can get for this amp..Isit labor intensive to put a MV on..Thanks Psionic Audio...Dave
@@PsionicAudio Thank you..I have the JHS little black box..But JHS says i cant run anything else except it in the loop...That means i cant run my modulation effects in the loop...Thats why i thought that Fromel mod would be better.
The screws being replaced - are those such a specialized size that thye can't be found at a hardware store or from someone online? Seems like ordering from Fender they are going to be more expensive and probably take longer to get. Did the owner buy this amp used from Guitar Center? I've bought a few amps from GC and have had them show up in conditions like this.
Nah, truss heads, I think 10/24 or 10/32 (I forget) but McMaster for example charges a ton for shipping and I didn't need a bag of 50 of them in the shop. As I was getting some other stuff from an "amp parts" vendor it made sense in this case.
It’s soldered from the factory, it’s built to ML specs, do your research, yes this particular amp has issues, but certain things are done at the factory
People don’t consider what getting sidetracked for 101 level repairs costs someone in terms of time away from more valuable work. It should cost $75 hour.
I get paid the same whether I’m doing something really difficult or just basic righty-tighty. I prefer doing the really clever bits but everything matters.
People don't want to pay anyone for their time. I previously worked on computers. Customers would beg me to save their photos. Then complain about a $30 charge for the time spent locating files on their dead computer and burning a CD-R. Same with electronic service. Everyone expects me to order new tubes and parts but don't want to pay more than my cost.
Just my humble opinion, but the first thing any owner of a Hot Rod should do is get the volume pots replaced with logarithmic taper pots. The linear ones just don't work well for volume control.
I have a lot of experience with them, killer sounding but blown transformer on both of then if you gig (well, that's what you buy a head for). They are cheap but suppose parts aren't easy to come by nowadays, the GH is sort of like Marshall sounding but darker and smoother, VH is cleaner and lesser gain. I still have a VC combo which is same like VH series to play at home, but however they don't come up with a GH combo. Don't buy the new Chinese made GH with reverb, I don't know the build quality but definitely not the same sounding at all, it is like diode clipping kind of gain sound.
these are nice sounding amps but really heavy. For all the crap people give Twin Reverbs (my Blackface Twin is 64 pounds) I think this amp is 62 pounds...
Was that a Blem model ? haha Grade F. Marks on the speaker looks like it made contact with asphalt. These amps just have nothing going for them in the grand scheme of life haha. Thanks for the video :-)
You don't like fender hot rod amps and I don't like them either but they have a place in the world, as as cheap back line amp at many bars and clubs and they have done their job so.
@@AuntAlnico4 Im more talking about the condition the amp was in. I didnt mention anything else im my comment. That amp looked like it had fallen out of the back of a pickup truck. LOL!
I have one of these amps. The speaker wiring comes soldered to the speaker from the factory. I've been toying with tubes and hadn't really found anything that I like consistently. I seem to end up with Ruby 6l6strs and Ruby chinese 12ax7s. That rca 12ax7 sounded amazing. Anything current production thats close to that tube? I've even considered changing speakers. What's your thoughts on the v type?
The tubes all sound the same, the gain levels are slightly different. There is no such thing as one tube being brighter or darker sounding than the next. This is BS.
I wouldn't say that they all sound the same, because they don't all sound the same. Chinese Marshall 12ax7 tubes of the past 15 years are very gritty and high gain. Russian 12ax7 seem to have more mids than say a groove tube. There are other discrepancy that make the difference in sounds but you have to test that out for yourself with your amp.
you said “its seen some things” so obviously, it was used and abused, no? I guess im confused by your vid title…it kinda sounds like youre implying it has all these issues new, right out d’ box.
"I could have done that myself" My old man who was a painter for decades says, "Anyone can paint, not everyone's a painter."
Thats a great line. 90% of the painters I knew were drunks. Not saying your father was.
We replaced drunk as a sailor, with drunk as a painter. haha
Or if somebody was drunk and loud at a party or in a restaurant/bar and we couldn't see them, we would say, probably a drunken painter. haha
Thanks for the great video as always! I bought one of these ML series amps brand new and had it for a couple years. Mine worked incredibly well, and I loved the V Type speakers so much that I bought a closed back 2x12 cab and put in a V Type and a WGS Invader 50. What a great pair, and they sound wonderful together with my Matchless 30/15, 1965 Tremolux, and Vox AC30. Super versatile.
Because of you I went over all the loose screws on both my new Fender amps you suggested in other videos . Thank you !
Especially the handles !
Working primarily on old hi-fi gear in my day job, the debris I most commonly find inside screwheads is wood fiber. A lot of equipment arrives without the original feet underneath, and they were either removed in order to fit the unit into a cabinet with minimal height, or perhaps they were snapped off at some point. Sliding the equipment in-and-out of a shelving unit or cabinet without feet under it means that the screws get full of wood fiber from the shelf material. I end up scraping it out with a dental pick.
Had my four year old very carefully looked after ML model apart recently. I found a bad solder joint on the shield wire going to the first stage tube which caused popping and crackling. Also noticed the two 330R R78/9 do still get very hot dropping ~16V. I had some slight discolouration on the back of the board, not too late to replace but be aware it is still a design issue even though they dissipate less. Thanks for the great video!
I had one of these. About 3 months after purchase, I would play for about 5-10 minutes when there would be a pop and the volume would drop about 20-25%. Brought it to two Fender licensed techs in the area who couldn’t replicate the issue, and my video/audio samples weren’t enough.
Sold it and got a Supersonic 22
I wish there was like, an instrument courier service or something. I have a saxophone that got shipped domestically to me - gorgeous vintage piece, freshly repadded, had its tone holes leveled at some point which they all need after the factory. Basically everything you could want, and it was wrapped up really well! But took a 600 NZD service to get it back to where it should be because all the keywork was out of whack. And it sucks, but sometimes the only convenient way to get something from A to B is to pay someone else.
(I also love that thing about tightening the nuts - "but ya didn't." Reminds me of the classic joke about the broken machine and the invoice, and also makes me think I should start to charge a cleaning fee for guitars. Sure they could've cleaned the fretboards, but they didn't.)
This version has soldered speakers not quick connect. It was one of landau and stan codys upgrades they selected I believe.
Yeah, they come from the factory that way
The speaker mounting issues and baffle issues on this one pale in comparison to the JCM800 412 I got a few years ago. I nearly had to build a new one inside the old cabinet. I think there were 4 different sizes and lengths screws holding the back on, and most were stripped.
YIKES...!!!
Kind of rough shape with speakers dangling...!!!
Glad the client found you😎👍
It's always that darned "Someone". Messes up everything.
The speaker connections are factory soldered on the ML DeVille.
Thanks! Oh so right, my brand new Fender Blues JR IV cabinet screws were all loose, and 75%, ridiculously loose.
I used to have delville and I hated because it’s was so loud and I could never get it to spot i like it. No joke it was up there with my 100 watt amp. When I switch to a ac30 huge difference
Even with an attenuator on it, I couldn’t get it to where it operates best, around 6-8, so after a year of constant adjustment in live and practice spaces and never being happy with it, I sold it and also picked up an ac30.
"I could have done that myself" Says the man with bald tyres on his car, peeling paint on his house, Leaking taps, overgrown garden, several STI's.
Even when T-nuts are used, I don't consider 4 bolts sufficient to hold anything bigger than an 8" speaker. Also, T-nuts don't hold well in a particleboard baffle; they really should be glued into the baffle by the factory, but this can be a pain for the amp's owner or a tech to do after the baffle already has grill cloth on it.
Even glue wont solve striped anchors in particle boardAdding more “glue” to the glue.
@@bayougtr T-nuts are installed by tapping into the wood or in this case particle board. The integral nails on the underside of the T-nuts will bite into plywood or solid wood well enough, but they don't hold very well in particle board, especially if there's there's humidity and moist air. I don't know if Fender puts any glue underneath or around them when they install them, but if they did, and used a good glue/ gluing technique, they probably would not come loose. I have used epoxy glue on the underside of the flanges of the T-nuts to make sure they don't come loose, which might be more trouble than fender is willing to do. If they were already installed and seemed to be fairly solid, I would consider using some water thin super glue that would wick in underneath the flange and into the particle board and make it resemble concrete. Of course you have to be very careful not to get it in the threads; or perhaps you grease up a bolt and run it into the T-nut so that it prevents super glue from clogging the threads.
I wouldn’t ask Fender for hardware. Assess the problem and choose the best fastener. This line of amps was designed on a spreadsheet.
Those are called PEM nuts and they are swaged into the chassis with a rather expensive looking tool. I just went through this with a two year old Blues Junior that had one turning and one missing. They are also used on the Supro reissues. The fault with these is that if the screw has the least bit of drag because of crappy threads it is easy to break them loose like the one you have here. I bought a rivnut squeezer-a good one-and a box of steel rivnuts for this purpose.
Is it possible to buy rivnuts and a rivnut swaging tool in a smaller size than 6/32 or a similar metric equivalent-diameter?
Yes, you can get a kit with installation tooling on Amazon. Smallest metric size is M3. BTW PEM style nuts will hold up to push out / torque out specs if all of the installation data is properly met (hole size, force, etc.)
@@twinreverbteleguy1 I didn't see em anywhere but I didn't look too hard. You can get a good rivet nut puller like I did for about thirty dollars and they work well. I could not find a price for the Pemserter Micromate tool. For what Pemnuts do in guitar amps from Fender and Supro, they're not suitable for small operations where rivnuts are eminently suitable especially if you dip them in epoxy before you clinch 'em. Plus, when a Pemnut falls out the hole's already too big to clinch another of the same size. You could clinch pemnuts but you'd need a press to do it and access.-the Micromate is good for 2,500 pounds of force.
@@goodun2974 6-32 are pretty small. The smallest on the Usually Reliable Shopper's Paradise is M3.
@@1Dougloid , For that Peavy 5150 amp the most convenient way to mount the output board back in place in the chassie would be if the tube-socket flanges had threaded fittings instead of holes. The riv nut fittings I've seen start at 6-32 and the outside diameter of those rivnuts is probably too large to fit the holes in most tube sockets. I did look at the Car mcmaster website and the smallest diameter metric rivnuts they had, M3 or M4 I forget which, were also similar in outside diameter to the 6 - 32 rivnuts. I suspect that the mounting holes in the flanges of typical octal tube sockets would need to be reamed out slightly in order to fit these rivnuts.
It occurs to me that perhaps one could install brass or aluminum pop rivets into the tube socket flanges, knock out the little nail head piece that usually stays behind, and then you could use small self tap screws that will thread right into the flanges of the tube socket. I don't know how well this would work in practice but it should work in theory.
I first read that as 'Michael Landon', was a tad bewildered..
Wait until they release the 'Hoss' Cartwright Mustang 🐎
Waitin on the ‘Little House on the Prairie’ version.
Little Joe was a badass guitar player.
There was one in a shop here labelled as a “Martin Landau”. Mission Impossible?
I have lots of fender amps..old and new..This is one of the best sounding amps i ever heard..My only problem is the volume control...Its way too loud on 1..Is it a big deal to put a master volume on this amp?..I have seen the Fromel MV mod you can get for this amp..Isit labor intensive to put a MV on..Thanks Psionic Audio...Dave
Hey Dave. Stick a 100K A pot on a box with an in and out jack. Run it in the fx loop. Voila. No-mod MV.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you..I have the JHS little black box..But JHS says i cant run anything else except it in the loop...That means i cant run my modulation effects in the loop...Thats why i thought that Fromel mod would be better.
I don’t know what JHS has in their box, but you can run a MV last in a chain of effects in the loop. Or just use a low impedance volume pedal.
Thank You
Can literally just stick a basic Ernie Ball Volume pedal in the effects loop and its the same as a Master Volume...
I have this amp. It sounds decent, but it does tend to get real muddy for some reason. It doesn’t have the clarity and crispness I was hoping for.
Ah,” The Princess Bride- Only partly dead”
Speakers screwed to the baffle seems kinda silly? Shouldn’t there be posts, nuts and washers for the speakers? But I don’t really know just seems…
Hello. Would like to know what differences you found on the ML vs Deville 2x12? Tone stack? R68 R69? R44 and R9?
Did that HRD ML have Mercury Magnetics xfmrs? I’ve heard they come that way but the schematic shows stock Fender Deville part numbers.
I guess I missed it. What speakers did you replace them with?
UPS has destroyed many of amps delivered to my door. loose speakers crushed cabinets etc...
I actually like the V type speakers. They fit a Fender way better than the C12K’s do.
Are they as good as a WGS G12C? Not by a mile.
Most decent speakers have a place .Creamback M also a good chioce for some Fender amps.
@@dazfarrell I have this amp and found 2 pairs I liked - a pair of Eminence red white and blues and my fav a pair of Celestion G12-65.
The screws being replaced - are those such a specialized size that thye can't be found at a hardware store or from someone online? Seems like ordering from Fender they are going to be more expensive and probably take longer to get. Did the owner buy this amp used from Guitar Center? I've bought a few amps from GC and have had them show up in conditions like this.
Nah, truss heads, I think 10/24 or 10/32 (I forget) but McMaster for example charges a ton for shipping and I didn't need a bag of 50 of them in the shop. As I was getting some other stuff from an "amp parts" vendor it made sense in this case.
Wow. Good to know and thanks for the heads up on the screws. It has great tone when you play though.
It’s soldered from the factory, it’s built to ML specs, do your research, yes this particular amp has issues, but certain things are done at the factory
I put a 12at7 in my landau and it squeals when I put the ax7 back it’s quiet??? V1 being there’s no drive channel what’s v2 purpose? Also
How much did you charge those customers that complained about labor to tighten a loose nut? Just curious.
People don’t consider what getting sidetracked for 101 level repairs costs someone in terms of time away from more valuable work. It should cost $75 hour.
I get paid the same whether I’m doing something really difficult or just basic righty-tighty.
I prefer doing the really clever bits but everything matters.
@@PsionicAudio Attention to detail is where it matters most. You have passed on a good mind set :)
People don't want to pay anyone for their time. I previously worked on computers. Customers would beg me to save their photos. Then complain about a $30 charge for the time spent locating files on their dead computer and burning a CD-R. Same with electronic service. Everyone expects me to order new tubes and parts but don't want to pay more than my cost.
That nut in the top left is called a PEM nut
I have the same amp and read the speaker wire is soldered
Just my humble opinion, but the first thing any owner of a Hot Rod should do is get the volume pots replaced with logarithmic taper pots. The linear ones just don't work well for volume control.
The stock volume pots are already log taper.
@@PsionicAudio Is this on newer models or is this a ML Edition thing, because my Deville was a linear and jumped to almost full volume at 2?
Sorry, I was thinking pre-III versions. I stand corrected.
Whats your take on old laney gh/vh amps?
I have a lot of experience with them, killer sounding but blown transformer on both of then if you gig (well, that's what you buy a head for).
They are cheap but suppose parts aren't easy to come by nowadays, the GH is sort of like Marshall sounding but darker and smoother, VH is cleaner and lesser gain.
I still have a VC combo which is same like VH series to play at home, but however they don't come up with a GH combo.
Don't buy the new Chinese made GH with reverb, I don't know the build quality but definitely not the same sounding at all, it is like diode clipping kind of gain sound.
these are nice sounding amps but really heavy. For all the crap people give Twin Reverbs (my Blackface Twin is 64 pounds) I think this amp is 62 pounds...
Was that a Blem model ? haha Grade F. Marks on the speaker looks like it made contact with asphalt. These amps just have nothing going for them in the grand scheme of life haha. Thanks for the video :-)
You don't like fender hot rod amps and I don't like them either but they have a place in the world, as as cheap back line amp at many bars and clubs and they have done their job so.
@@AuntAlnico4 Im more talking about the condition the amp was in. I didnt mention anything else im my comment. That amp looked like it had fallen out of the back of a pickup truck. LOL!
I have one of these amps. The speaker wiring comes soldered to the speaker from the factory.
I've been toying with tubes and hadn't really found anything that I like consistently. I seem to end up with Ruby 6l6strs and Ruby chinese 12ax7s. That rca 12ax7 sounded amazing. Anything current production thats close to that tube?
I've even considered changing speakers. What's your thoughts on the v type?
The tubes all sound the same, the gain levels are slightly different. There is no such thing as one tube being brighter or darker sounding than the next. This is BS.
I wouldn't say that they all sound the same, because they don't all sound the same.
Chinese Marshall 12ax7 tubes of the past 15 years are very gritty and high gain. Russian 12ax7 seem to have more mids than say a groove tube. There are other discrepancy that make the difference in sounds but you have to test that out for yourself with your amp.
I would be embarrassed to send something in that condition, I hope it was as purchased rather than run into the ground
So this is a used amp and clearly not cared for very well? Idk just seems like it’s more owner issues and care issues.
Wow - how did it get to be so bodged?
RUclips advertising for his business, basically main videos are getting clients.
@@AuntAlnico4 ?
Probably shipping. Or a combination of inattentive things.
Hilarious...
you said “its seen some things” so obviously, it was used and abused, no? I guess im confused by your vid title…it kinda sounds like youre implying it has all these issues new, right out d’ box.
lol. your brothers sisters friend used google too.
Somebody butchered a nice amp. Why buy something and fail to maintain it properly.
Use the proper screw drivers..
Russian water?...
Currently in short supply.