It was one of those things that I thought I had seen before until I went looking for it, then had to do the Dick Tracy thing to find out. Thanks for watching!
I feel the same way seeing as how he was the first backpacker to cut the handle off his toothbrush to save weight. But for the present, that's the only information we have. Were it myself, I'd have gone with a WW1 or WW2 mess kit.
There is precious little scholarship on the subject of recreational camping and backpacking in the 20th Century, so we have to lean heavily on photographic evidence. I've got another video planned on the Smokey Mountains Hiking Club and what the photo collection at TN University can tell us. Thanks for watching!
@@sargevining I only go back to the 1970s and can remember what was in the catalogues and the outdoor and surplus stores back then. What was in the catalogues was a thing to be desired and too expensive for my student budget then. I still have a US army pup tent, and remember borrowing my dads Bergen which has long since succumbed to the moths and rust.
@@inregionecaecorum Your experience pretty much mirrors mine. Ny first "big boy" pack was Dad's '42 Mountain Ruck and when I did use a tent, it was a WW2 pup. On long trips, I'd carry a 10 x 10 plastic drop cloth for shelter.
Its only going to end when God calls me home. This video has gotten me planning on at least one more investigating the photographic evidence available to us in various universities. Little is written about the period, so that's where we have to go. Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. Your previous Shaffer video caused me to order his book. The Mtn Ruck and, his back story got my interest. I'm not a hiker, just a woods guy in the massive N.W. forests between my home and the ocean. Thanks for the great video.
The book is a good read, but I was frustrated when I couldn't fand anything on the canteen he used. Most thru hikers today post their entire gear list on social media. Earl was more about describing what he saw. Thanks for watching!
A friend of Mine walked the Appalachian trail in the late 1970s, and the clothes he wore were not like in the photo. he had blue jeans, shorts, and T-shirts of that area, a Kelty pack, and plastic quart water bottle, and a little wgite gas stove. I know he had his dad send him food every few days or week, to a (post office) along the way, and had to go off-trail to pick it up.
The organization and logistics of an AT Thru have certainly changed since Earl too his first steps on the trail. We're in the middle of the 60s-80s in the History of Camping Gear series right now, examining the gear developments of that period and the next video in the "Base Weight" series is Base Weight 1963, most of the gear used there were in use in the '70s. I'm also planning a 1972ish themed video to commemorate the opening of the Lone Star Trail.
This video peaked my interest enough that I went and read Shaffer's diary via the smithsonian who offers a download in pdf format (with transcription so you don't have to try to read his handwriting through blurry images). While he mentions having a canteen on several occasions, he never mentions what it is. He does mention that people that b**ch about not having water access on the trail should learn to carry a canteen. As far as his cooking gear goes, he only mentions that it is a 'cookkit' and in other places as a kettle and a frying pan. He also mentions that he uses it to cook for more than one person on occasion, so both of these certainly lend credence to the possibility of it being a mountain cook set. Combine this with the mountain ruck and camouflaged military poncho he used for a shelter, and it's a strong argument that a surplus mountain cook set could have been used. Likely we will never know what either were without finding another source on the subject, but I'm glad this video spurred my interest in reading his diary. It is definitely worth a read.
Kettle and frying pan that can cook for several people does pretty much describe the Mountain Cook Set. Thanks for the link to Earl's Diary, I've been trying to read the fuzzy pics of his handwriting. I've edited my comments block to include that link, thanks Nathan!
Thank you for demonstrating the well-guarded secret release technique for the mountain cook riddle. Anyone who attempts to educate others through research will always have a 5lbs. headstart on credibility, for me, when their stock has a compass in it. It just shows good sense. Canteens have been an interesting field of study of examples dating from before The Revolution to the ACW. Regional tendencies and practices, affected and influenced by environment, seem to be an important factor regarding civilian use. Canteens became more and more essential pieces of gear as folks moved farther into arid regions. The capacity of these vessels increased commensurate to that movement. Increasing usage of land for grazing, etc. also required folks to trust natural untreated sources less. There are many indicators that suggest the more eastern woodsmen relied far less on canteens due to the prevalence of creeks, streams, etc. I also feel very strongly that, just like us old farts today growing up just learned to "hold it", our forefathers were able to be a little thirsty if they had to for a couple hours. Half the human race born after 1995 today would drop in their tracks if an alien race invented a way to disappear personal water bottles for 27 minutes. A very interesting video and subject. Well treated and researched. Great video and analysis.
Our problem with this period (1890ish to 1990ish) is that there is comparatively little scholarship on recreational camping and backpacking. We do have period periodicals and several universities have photographic collections but that's about it. Interpretations are lacking, and in researching we have to lean heavily on photographic evidence in order to build accurate Living History Impressions and this, I think, is the important function that Living History performs. You're right about the comparison between "back East" and "out West" vis a vis the need for a canteen, a lesson I learned in my first forays into the woods down here. I was led astray by doing most of my hiking in the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge during my time at Ft. Sill. The CCC was heavily engaged up there and water retention projects, both large and small abound up there.
Shaffer mentions in his diary about being out of water in his canteen, or nearly out of water on several occasions, and that he has to actively find springs to fill it. Sometimes he just has to tough it out and go without. He also mentions specifically that people that b**ch about water should learn to carry a canteen. You have to keep in mind that he had just gotten out of the military and carrying a canteen was a very normal thing for him.
@@NathanBickham Yah, that's a bit more evidence suggesting a 1 qt canteen. The surplus gear he did carry was from 10th Mountain (mostly) but his WW2 service was in the Pacific. I find it odd (a bit) that the military gear he chose was stuff he wasn't really familiar with (except the poncho), and the canteen was (probably) civilian.
A more likely solution to the messkit question is that he wouldve used a 1910 messkit. Im a wwii reenactor and ive used the m42 rucksack in the field, and the squad mess accessories wouldve been something kept at basecamp while each individual soldier was issued a 1910 messkit. That wouldve been stowed within the zip pocket in the upper flap of the rucksack.
We'll likely never really know. We have to go with the source we have and it is logical that Mountain Cooksets were being sold in the same surplus store as Mountain Rucksacks. It is nice kit and big enough to boil water for purification, cooking, and washing socks and has a frying pan lid big enough to cook two eggs and bacon. Boy Scout mess kits are also a possibility as they are in some respects superior to 1910 mess kits and Boy Scout kit was generally sold in surplus stores back then as well.
From what I can tell it looks like a Scout canteen as there is a logo on the front that isn't a US military logo from any period. I see the camera, I assume the case next to it is a pair of binoculars. I have no idea of the case under the left arm. I think this photo was from a different camera as well. It looks like one from a box camera like my dad carried in WW2 and what he is carrying is a 35 mm camera thus the better quality of he other prints. Funny today we would like to see everything layed out that he carried, back then no one really cared unless he wrote a book that listed it.
The shape is all we really have to go by. I lean towards Scout canteen b/c of the shape and the time, but he'd have had to remove the shoulder strap and rig a way to hang it from his belt. A pre-WW1 canteen has a hanger that readily allows that. So, were stuck with supposition.
Certainly I am guessing but if you enlarge the picture there is a design added in the center of the canvas. The second thing would be the size and the canvas cover. Military ones from the SpanAm Way have large inked US on one side and the unit on the other. It could be a Forrest Service model sold surplus as they kept the standard style canteen in to the 1980s I believe. One of my pleasures is taking old photographs and pulling everything I can from them. I do it to old family photos as well.@@sargevining
👍 Another one of those perplexing life mysteries. We can make some educated guesses, but don’t know for sure. Why do we believe the canteen was a Boy Scout canteen? It could have been an early U.S. Army canteen. My 10th Mountain Rucksack has places that could be used to attached the U.S. WW2 military kidney shaped canteen cup set on the outside of the bag. Having said that your research is probably as close to knowing as we will ever get.
I lean towards Boy Scout canteen because of availability at the time, but there IS good reason to suspect a pre-WW1 canteen as its hanging from his belt. He'd have had to remove the BSA canteen shoulder strap and rig it to hang from his belt. I figure that he didn't avail himself of the canteen hanger on his ruck as a canteen in that location isn't readily available without shucking the pack. Its a great place for extra water, but hiking in the east doesn't require much water carriage due to the ubiquity of streams and rivers.
@@sargevining Growing up in New England and from camping in the Smokey Mountains I agree with you and understand the availability of water sources on the East Coast. Having hung canteens from the hanger on the ruck I can agree it may have been a good idea for mountain troops during war, but IMHO not so much for leisurely camping, except for spare water as you say. So, BSA canteen or WW1 canteen the perplexing mystery remains. Could have been either one although in 1948 the BSA option was probably more readily available and at that time probably still good quality for such a hike. Thank you again for the input.
Its not a bad read, but sometimes frustrating. I couldn't find any mention of a canteen in it when doing the research for the video. Thanks for watching!
He built its shelter up on Pa. At one church they name it well they put to or in it her was made took his name off it! He said sleep in the ground you feel the earth breath! I have phone I send a copies is of them! If you want at frist he sleep in boy scout tent then went to a poncho and wool blanket at first. He use. A paper blanket at amacola they got pack his shoes and gear I don,t if first trip or second trip gear in the book he dose say about some of his gear like a frying pan in can,t ember if hi said it was scout mess kit!
He N.H he bought fresh bread and eggs hard boiled them! There guy up there in the on town he leave hiker sleep in this yard show photos of him also there was a lady he knew she past now had photos of gramdmaw gatewood he showed me photo copies of her Beleave her great grand Daughterter has the orginals
Thanks for watching! Let's keep in mind that his only method of water purification was boiling water, so he'd need at least a quart capacity for that purpose. He's also likely washing some of his clothes. I could just be that it was the only cook set that was being sold in the store where he got his M42 rucksack. And as I note in the video, the source where I got that info didn't give us his source, we can't be sure that he actually did carry the Mountain Cookset. One of those things that we will really know.
i love the history behind this channel. it would be great to hear you tell more of this guys story.
You can find more of Earl's story in the History of Camping Gear and WW2 Playlist. Thanks for watching!
Another good one, thanks!
I'm kinda likin' your Hobo Series, too.
@@sargevining Thanks, my friend!
I too tried to Google his packing list and was disappointed to not find it readily listed!
It was one of those things that I thought I had seen before until I went looking for it, then had to do the Dick Tracy thing to find out.
Thanks for watching!
I find it difficult to credit that Mr. Shaffer would take so oversized a cook set as the Mountain Division set on his through hike.
I feel the same way seeing as how he was the first backpacker to cut the handle off his toothbrush to save weight. But for the present, that's the only information we have. Were it myself, I'd have gone with a WW1 or WW2 mess kit.
Fine detective work sir.
There is precious little scholarship on the subject of recreational camping and backpacking in the 20th Century, so we have to lean heavily on photographic evidence. I've got another video planned on the Smokey Mountains Hiking Club and what the photo collection at TN University can tell us.
Thanks for watching!
@@sargevining I only go back to the 1970s and can remember what was in the catalogues and the outdoor and surplus stores back then. What was in the catalogues was a thing to be desired and too expensive for my student budget then. I still have a US army pup tent, and remember borrowing my dads Bergen which has long since succumbed to the moths and rust.
@@inregionecaecorum Your experience pretty much mirrors mine. Ny first "big boy" pack was Dad's '42 Mountain Ruck and when I did use a tent, it was a WW2 pup. On long trips, I'd carry a 10 x 10 plastic drop cloth for shelter.
Just when I get deep into your info sharing, it ends. Thank you, awesome video.
Its only going to end when God calls me home. This video has gotten me planning on at least one more investigating the photographic evidence available to us in various universities. Little is written about the period, so that's where we have to go.
Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. Your previous Shaffer video caused me to order his book. The Mtn Ruck and, his back story got my interest. I'm not a hiker, just a woods guy in the massive N.W. forests between my home and the ocean. Thanks for the great video.
The book is a good read, but I was frustrated when I couldn't fand anything on the canteen he used. Most thru hikers today post their entire gear list on social media. Earl was more about describing what he saw.
Thanks for watching!
Great video.
Thanks for watching! More coming.
A friend of Mine walked the Appalachian trail in the late 1970s, and the clothes he wore were not like in the photo. he had blue jeans, shorts, and T-shirts of that area, a Kelty pack, and plastic quart water bottle, and a little wgite gas stove.
I know he had his dad send him food every few days or week, to a (post office) along the way, and had to go off-trail to pick it up.
The organization and logistics of an AT Thru have certainly changed since Earl too his first steps on the trail.
We're in the middle of the 60s-80s in the History of Camping Gear series right now, examining the gear developments of that period and the next video in the "Base Weight" series is Base Weight 1963, most of the gear used there were in use in the '70s. I'm also planning a 1972ish themed video to commemorate the opening of the Lone Star Trail.
This video peaked my interest enough that I went and read Shaffer's diary via the smithsonian who offers a download in pdf format (with transcription so you don't have to try to read his handwriting through blurry images). While he mentions having a canteen on several occasions, he never mentions what it is. He does mention that people that b**ch about not having water access on the trail should learn to carry a canteen.
As far as his cooking gear goes, he only mentions that it is a 'cookkit' and in other places as a kettle and a frying pan. He also mentions that he uses it to cook for more than one person on occasion, so both of these certainly lend credence to the possibility of it being a mountain cook set. Combine this with the mountain ruck and camouflaged military poncho he used for a shelter, and it's a strong argument that a surplus mountain cook set could have been used.
Likely we will never know what either were without finding another source on the subject, but I'm glad this video spurred my interest in reading his diary. It is definitely worth a read.
Kettle and frying pan that can cook for several people does pretty much describe the Mountain Cook Set.
Thanks for the link to Earl's Diary, I've been trying to read the fuzzy pics of his handwriting. I've edited my comments block to include that link, thanks Nathan!
Thank you for demonstrating the well-guarded secret release technique for the mountain cook riddle.
Anyone who attempts to educate others through research will always have a 5lbs. headstart on credibility, for me, when their stock has a compass in it. It just shows good sense.
Canteens have been an interesting field of study of examples dating from before The Revolution to the ACW. Regional tendencies and practices, affected and influenced by environment, seem to be an important factor regarding civilian use.
Canteens became more and more essential pieces of gear as folks moved farther into arid regions. The capacity of these vessels increased commensurate to that movement. Increasing usage of land for grazing, etc. also required folks to trust natural untreated sources less.
There are many indicators that suggest the more eastern woodsmen relied far less on canteens due to the prevalence of creeks, streams, etc.
I also feel very strongly that, just like us old farts today growing up just learned to "hold it", our forefathers were able to be a little thirsty if they had to for a couple hours.
Half the human race born after 1995 today would drop in their tracks if an alien race invented a way to disappear personal water bottles for 27 minutes.
A very interesting video and subject. Well treated and researched. Great video and analysis.
Our problem with this period (1890ish to 1990ish) is that there is comparatively little scholarship on recreational camping and backpacking. We do have period periodicals and several universities have photographic collections but that's about it. Interpretations are lacking, and in researching we have to lean heavily on photographic evidence in order to build accurate Living History Impressions and this, I think, is the important function that Living History performs.
You're right about the comparison between "back East" and "out West" vis a vis the need for a canteen, a lesson I learned in my first forays into the woods down here. I was led astray by doing most of my hiking in the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge during my time at Ft. Sill. The CCC was heavily engaged up there and water retention projects, both large and small abound up there.
Shaffer mentions in his diary about being out of water in his canteen, or nearly out of water on several occasions, and that he has to actively find springs to fill it. Sometimes he just has to tough it out and go without. He also mentions specifically that people that b**ch about water should learn to carry a canteen. You have to keep in mind that he had just gotten out of the military and carrying a canteen was a very normal thing for him.
@@NathanBickham Yah, that's a bit more evidence suggesting a 1 qt canteen. The surplus gear he did carry was from 10th Mountain (mostly) but his WW2 service was in the Pacific. I find it odd (a bit) that the military gear he chose was stuff he wasn't really familiar with (except the poncho), and the canteen was (probably) civilian.
A more likely solution to the messkit question is that he wouldve used a 1910 messkit.
Im a wwii reenactor and ive used the m42 rucksack in the field, and the squad mess accessories wouldve been something kept at basecamp while each individual soldier was issued a 1910 messkit. That wouldve been stowed within the zip pocket in the upper flap of the rucksack.
We'll likely never really know. We have to go with the source we have and it is logical that Mountain Cooksets were being sold in the same surplus store as Mountain Rucksacks. It is nice kit and big enough to boil water for purification, cooking, and washing socks and has a frying pan lid big enough to cook two eggs and bacon. Boy Scout mess kits are also a possibility as they are in some respects superior to 1910 mess kits and Boy Scout kit was generally sold in surplus stores back then as well.
From what I can tell it looks like a Scout canteen as there is a logo on the front that isn't a US military logo from any period. I see the camera, I assume the case next to it is a pair of binoculars. I have no idea of the case under the left arm. I think this photo was from a different camera as well. It looks like one from a box camera like my dad carried in WW2 and what he is carrying is a 35 mm camera thus the better quality of he other prints. Funny today we would like to see everything layed out that he carried, back then no one really cared unless he wrote a book that listed it.
The shape is all we really have to go by. I lean towards Scout canteen b/c of the shape and the time, but he'd have had to remove the shoulder strap and rig a way to hang it from his belt. A pre-WW1 canteen has a hanger that readily allows that. So, were stuck with supposition.
Certainly I am guessing but if you enlarge the picture there is a design added in the center of the canvas. The second thing would be the size and the canvas cover. Military ones from the SpanAm Way have large inked US on one side and the unit on the other. It could be a Forrest Service model sold surplus as they kept the standard style canteen in to the 1980s I believe. One of my pleasures is taking old photographs and pulling everything I can from them. I do it to old family photos as well.@@sargevining
👍 Another one of those perplexing life mysteries.
We can make some educated guesses, but don’t know for sure.
Why do we believe the canteen was a Boy Scout canteen? It could have been an early U.S. Army canteen. My 10th Mountain Rucksack has places that could be used to attached the U.S. WW2 military kidney shaped canteen cup set on the outside of the bag.
Having said that your research is probably as close to knowing as we will ever get.
I lean towards Boy Scout canteen because of availability at the time, but there IS good reason to suspect a pre-WW1 canteen as its hanging from his belt. He'd have had to remove the BSA canteen shoulder strap and rig it to hang from his belt. I figure that he didn't avail himself of the canteen hanger on his ruck as a canteen in that location isn't readily available without shucking the pack. Its a great place for extra water, but hiking in the east doesn't require much water carriage due to the ubiquity of streams and rivers.
@@sargevining Growing up in New England and from camping in the Smokey Mountains I agree with you and understand the availability of water sources on the East Coast. Having hung canteens from the hanger on the ruck I can agree it may have been a good idea for mountain troops during war, but IMHO not so much for leisurely camping, except for spare water as you say. So, BSA canteen or WW1 canteen the perplexing mystery remains. Could have been either one although in 1948 the BSA option was probably more readily available and at that time probably still good quality for such a hike. Thank you again for the input.
I read his follow the spring
Its not a bad read, but sometimes frustrating. I couldn't find any mention of a canteen in it when doing the research for the video.
Thanks for watching!
I saw some of gear at amacola falls at state park got photos and down state pa there in pa. State park
I'm planning a trip to the AT museum to see the shelter and stuff there. I'll have to check out Amacola on the way.
Thanks for watching!
He built its shelter up on Pa. At one church they name it well they put to or in it her was made took his name off it! He said sleep in the ground you feel the earth breath! I have phone I send a copies is of them! If you want at frist he sleep in boy scout tent then went to a poncho and wool blanket at first. He use. A paper blanket at amacola they got pack his shoes and gear I don,t if first trip or second trip gear in the book he dose say about some of his gear like a frying pan in can,t ember if hi said it was scout mess kit!
He N.H he bought fresh bread and eggs hard boiled them! There guy up there in the on town he leave hiker sleep in this yard show photos of him also there was a lady he knew she past now had photos of gramdmaw gatewood he showed me photo copies of her Beleave her great grand Daughterter has the orginals
Just for fun a reread his book
What was Shafer eating the would require such a large pot?
Thanks for watching! Let's keep in mind that his only method of water purification was boiling water, so he'd need at least a quart capacity for that purpose. He's also likely washing some of his clothes. I could just be that it was the only cook set that was being sold in the store where he got his M42 rucksack. And as I note in the video, the source where I got that info didn't give us his source, we can't be sure that he actually did carry the Mountain Cookset. One of those things that we will really know.