People are getting far to technical here with the 1-2 micron comment it wasn’t meant to be scientific and exact he is just stating it’s barely any difference! I have a Cerax 1k stone, normal size and I flatten it when I notice the edge isn’t making even contact whether it’s 5 or 25 knives. I’ve done a couple hundred knives on the Cerax 1k stone and it’s still over a centimeter thick. It’s impossible to say every ten knives or every 3 knives because it’s all relative to how bad the edge was the hardness of the steel the ability of the sharpener etc. my advice is use as much of the stone as you can and when you feel like your making uneven contact flatten it.
Agreed. If you are sharpening or stropping a knife on a whetstone use every inch of the stone. That is what help flatten and evenly wears the stone. Only use a nagura stone when you need to clean metal shavings off of the surface of the whetstone or you need to create a thick slurry to have a more aggressive sharpening or stropping session. Practice!
For only a few bucks, a straight edge and a set of feeler gauges would give a precise answer. I have a King 1k/6k that has seen only light use sharping plane irons, and I just checked to find that a 0.002" feeler gauge slid into the dish with ease. So I guess I need to flatten because my dish is an order-of-magnitude deeper than his?
Yup. Also, the flattening is only needed for plane irons and such. It IS SUPER IMPORTANT that your stone is flat, within reason. For knife blades and such, it doesn't really matter. Like the post says, flaten it when your blades aren't making good contact. If you're sharpening a blade with a reference surface, such as a chisel or plane, then yeah, keep it in mind, but don't get obsessive...
I'm a newbie and have been looking for what I need to get started and the variety and combinations out there are daunting. Everyone has something they tell you you need to have and I almost gave up completely when I saw that the stones needed to be flattened. I was ready to just find someone to fix my knives for me. Seeing your videos have eased my fears and I thank you.
You are so right. Ive used stones where you can even see the belly and I can still get it sharp even though then I believe i should flatten it. I have gotten used stones like that and sharpened knives just to see how the stone was. Not big kitchen knives but pocket knives so in this case I was not using the entire stone but I did however sharpen the knife. Its nice to see people not being wasteful and conserve what they have. Mainly just not filling peoples heads with missinformation. You mainly flatten a stone with your sharpening and using every inch of the stone. Anyways I love your videos there very informative and I really enjoy watching them and appreciate how open minded you are about topics and remain unbias even though everyone is to a degree and thats fine. People also need to have opinions and in this day and age with all the commenters I think too many you tubers have to walk on eggshells or at least they do.
Same. I have a cheap stone with quite an impressive bow to it, but can still get a hair whittling edge. Funny to see some of the elitists in the comments
Murray explains in one of his videos how he uses the whole surface. If he sees a high spot he focuses on that spot to level it out. Like you said he is a master, I'm sure it takes a lot of skill to sharpen that well while maintaining a flat stone from sharpening on different edges each time. That being said I've tried to keep it flat but it is natural for me to move back into the center. I'm sure I will learn though. Great videos, I've enjoyed seeing and hearing about all the different stones and knives you have the privilege to get your hands on.
I learned to sharpen from Murray Carter's videos. I tend to agree that you really don't need to flatten every time. Also, I suck compared to Murray and you, and I don't sharpen NEAR the number of knives you guys do, however, I do get more than acceptable results. I suppose if a dish started giving me problems, I wouldn't mind flattening, it just hasn't happened yet. I feel like if you wait to flatten, or if you flatten every time the material you take off would end up being the same. Keep up the good work!
Great video mate! I absolutely agree with you. The first time I ever needed to flatten my stone was after 5 years, and that's because I was sharpening a scandi ground knife and needed a flat surface; otherwise I wouldn't have done it
I knew it! Now I finally used one of those last night & not only did it just not seem right & all that but the amount of material I lost was freaking nuts. Long story short I went to look into this & found this video. Thank you brother for the video, it was helpful
THANK YOU FOR AN AWESOME AND TIME/MONEY SAVING VIDEO!!! I don't care how old it is! I've probably sharpened about every "type" of cutting edge there is... AND I've gotten by with just about any reasonable sharpening instrument for the task. From taking an "EZ Lap" Diamond grit sharpening rod to axes and chisels, to needle-files for the micro-serrations on a Ginsu set I found in a thrift store for a dollar! I almost never flatten a stone! I only periodically bother "resurfacing" the stones in my dremel, drill, and bench-grinder collections. (Angle grinder stones just don't last long enough around here to bother) The REAL answer to a truly sharp and consistent edge on any cutter or blade is Technique. You have to "get a feel" and "tune your ears" for the job. It takes time and practice. That's not to say that there's absolutely no purpose served in flattening, either. BECAUSE if you paid attention, you'd see clearly that I specifically ALMOST never flatten a stone. On that, it comes down to "making the judgment call"... Every particular sharpener and sharpening shop(?) is going to be a bit different. SO everyone's personal experience is also going to be a bit different, and we (general knife and care enthusiasts) should be able to take our growing knowledge and balance what the purpose is for flattening with the expense (between effort, time, and stone-material lost) to find our own terms for flattening our stones. I think that's really what this video is about, even if it's not specifically said in just so many terms. AGAIN, RYKY, Thank you so much, for working toward that "use your better judgment" and giving a bit of a push back on those "expert sales people". I hate the worry that "teaching" always has to come with some ulterior motivation to sell me something. ;o)
Very good solid information for knife sharpening. You certainly do not need a flat surface to sharpen most knives. Flattening stones regularly is only slightly more critical when sharpening flat edges such as chisels & plane iron/blades for very fine wood working.
Thanks for this video it's alway interesting when you throw tips from the masters. I guess that by being fluid on the stone and by having an equal grind everywhere on the surface then you don't really need maintenance.
Hey Ryky,,,, Being a beginner in the Splash/Go, wet stone community,,,, I see you as the “Ip man “ of the sharpening/ wet stone Universe. You might laugh,, but even your demeanor , character and ethics really match. I Greatly appreciate this video and the one on “the burr”,,,!!!!! These short tutorials are really helpful. His Blessings,,,, Joshua
I never flattened my stones until I got into woodworking - that’s when I realized how important it was to have a flat stone - but that’s only because you’re sharpening flat faced chisels and plane blades that need to be as close to flat as you can get it, because those blades are responsible for shaving the thinnest amounts of wood fiber you possibly can at times to get very precise joints and fits But aside from that - I agree, I personally feel like my sharpening is more intuitive and natural once I break in a stone and get my own personalized groove In my knife stones Love your videos man 🤙🤙
Humble, honest, and fair assessment. I have wondered about the small dip in one of my stones, the effect upon a knife sharpened across it, and the consequent need for flattening the stone. Should the need arise, the example here shows how to flatten with a diamond stone and the reason to use a Nagura stone afterwards. Very useful information. Danke.
The main reason I love watching people here on youtube who doesn’t sell products or endorsed by some snake oil products... just plain honest tips and reviews without the BS sales jargon... TY!!!
I really like this video (saw this video one or two months ago, maybe on your other channel). But the best tip you gave for maintaining a whetstone is to use the Rust Erasers instead of the nagura stone. Thx for that.
What is the difference between a Nagura and a Rust Eraser? I bought the Rust Erasers that Ryky recommended and they do a very nice job of cleaning up the stones, but are they so soft that they remove little to no material? Also, I just noticed the description on the link on the Amazon page says to soak the Rust Eraser for 10 minutes... is that true? I couldn't tell from the packaging, because it's all in Japanese!
The Nagura won't last as long as the Rust Eraser will. I don't know how long my Rust Eraser will last, but I bet I will still have it in 5 years. Both Nagura and Rust Eraser are suppose to remove the metal from the stone. They are not designed for removing the stone material itself. So, you cannot flatten a stone with them. You need to soak both the whetstone and the Rust Eraser. I reckon the Japanese instructions on the packaging aren't really useful for this kind of application, since the Rust Eraser's main purpose isn't really to clean up whetstones.
Got it... thanks! I haven't been soaking my rust eraser, and it has been cleaning my stones nicely... I'll have to let them soak and see how they do (probably easier on the stones, which has already been pretty easy).
To clean the embedded metal from my 1,000 and 12,000 grit ceramic stone, I use a wet sponge scrub away the metal. before during or after. If done during it can remove the metal and expose the sharp abrasive for continued efficient sharpening
I bought myself cheap diamond flattener, I plan to keep it untouched until I see a noticeable dent in my stones. That was a common sense to me. I'm glad suehiro stones come with nagura now. I didn't know what they are for really, I thought they are flattening stones as well, now I know thanks.
Thank you! I just picked up Shapton pro 320, 1000 and 5000 stones for a sweet deal to learn whetstone sharpening, and I was about to drop $90 on an atoma 140 or 400. I'll save my money
Thank you, i feel the same as you do. What is the name of the stone with which you are cleaning the whestone? Is it Nagura stone or something else? If yes, what could be the grid of this (nagura) stone?
hi ryky, i've been using a king combo 1000/6000 stone. lately the 6000 grit has been getting "dirty" so i use the rust eraser you recommended to clear it up (finer one). The stone started building black bumps cover up the whole stone. i tried using a nagura as well and it did not help. If you know what they are and how to remove that would be a great help. Thanks you
Thank you I am really enjoying your channel. I am wood worker and pretty experienced with sharpening plane irons and chisels. We have always had it beat in our brains you must flatten your stones and I agree when you must have a perfectly flat back in a chisel and must have a perfect square edge on a plane iron. But what you are saying about the microns difference has me wondering if I really need to be so anal about it when sharpening the very micro bevels in tools every time. I really want to learn knife sharpening so thanks
He's talking about knives. Regular, double bevel knives. Plane tools require dead flat stones. This isn't a video about wood working, it's about kitchen knives. This information does not apply to wood working.
Hes right, untill you get into custom carpentry sharpening hand chisels and block planes. Then a flat stone is absolutly a must. I cook and do woodwork. If i was just sharpening knived i wouldnt be so anal about flat stones
Exactly. The only thing I'll say is not just block planes. Any flat backed blade basically. This includes all chisels, try and jointer planes, etc. Even then, I don't flatten every single use, but maybe after three or four blades, and I run a 1000 grit diamond plate to take off the least amount from my stone. I've never had a nagura though, until yesterday when my new dabato md 100 came in. Any tips on the use of the nagura with this splash stone? Should it be splashed or soaked, or should only the dabato be splashed? All instructions were in Japanese so I'm clueless. That being said I've sharpened two plane blades on it and love love love the stone.
No wonder why i felt something is very off after I lapped 6k king with diamond plate but didnt use nagura afterward. I saw marks n scratches on my knife and raised my eyebrows left to right questioning if its the nature of lapping or I did something wrong. It cuts still but felt very toothy not smooth n somewhat polished but lots of marks. Yes it shocked me how much stuffs go to waste from lapping. "Do not forget nagura after lapping" i'll keep repeating until it roots in my brain cell. Thx Ryky🤙🏻🤙🏻
I use my stones to sharpen woodworking tools as well as knifes. If I am trying to sharpen a bench plane iron (a flat chisel like edge) would being dead flat be important? Would the slight hollow give me a non-uniform edge on a large chisel edge?
I really hope you can answer my question. I just bought a sharpening kit of whetstones of Gting brand. For some reason the 8000 grit side of my stone feels way more coarse and it just doesn't feel right. What can I do to fix it ?
Being new to knife sharpening ,but not new to sharpening other types of tools for my former trade (retired) . Thanks for many very good videos and tips. Lots of info and I've learned a lot from your videos . BUT , after purchasing a Nanina super stone 3000 grit 10MM . I found, after the 1st use, My New, once used whetstone, is not even close to flat . So bought a Naniwa flattening stone (which is not close to flat either , I can rock it on a decent straight edge i own) . I guess that whetstone is anywhere from 1/64"- 1/125" off . I think that is more than a micron or 2 . Even the 20MM Naniwa whetstones (both Super Stones ,400 and 800) I also got at the same time where out of flat . So I guess there are times when flatting is needed ..... When you see light, between the straight edge and the stone and the center(of the stone) is higher then either end of the stone, I would guess you can not sharpen anything well, if you try using the whole stone . I believe it makes keeping the angle of the knife, level all the way though the pass . Somewhat flat should be good to go . But as I worked with tolerances in the 1K's of an inch, It can make a difference . Yup, I am picky about things like this , and after reading and seeing all those great reviews , I bought a few . Disappointed is a word that comes to mind . Despite the issues with the stones I have . I have been able to get to a good place getting a sharp knife . I give credit to pointers on the videos I seen here and a few other sites. Practice , practice ,practice.
Hi Ricky love your videos learning as much as I can from you..what size nagura stone or grit should I use on a chosera 800 and 3000 I'm getting because of watching you also I'll be getting a shapton 320 for profiling is that a good grit for re profiling ???Thanks!!! -Dustin
I have the Chosera 1000, which came with a Nagura stone; but, I don't know what grit it is. Do you? What is the finest whetstone on which I ought to use this Nagura? 3000? 5000? Please, advise. Thank you.
How about New stones? I bought an chesera 800 and a 3000 and all the edges are taking off metal, there turning dark gray to black. Do I need to flatten at first? Mike
I started setting the bevel on a brand new straight razor and a brand new #400 grit Yoshihiro stone but after only a few minutes the stone became dull and smooth almost like a #8000 grit stone. Is that normal? Is that something that should be fixed with a fixer stone?
Hi, bit a late reaction, but I started with sharpening just recently ... So I bought pretty cheap "begginers" whetstone 2-sided 1000/3000 which I found good enough for my knives. But the 1000 side is sufferring a lot developing a "bow" so I had to flatten it. So - is my technique wrong, or is it the cheap stone (roughly 60USD)? I am kinda satisfied with the results, but the bow is driving me nuts as it prevents me to use the whole surface of the stone. Also if you can give a tip for making the tip of the knife the same sharpness as the rest :-) Thanks and greetings from Czech Republic
one thing you mentioned was once you flattened a whetstone with a coarser flattening plate, you want to use a softer stone such as the nagura to change the stone's texture back to its original smoothness, was this a point you were trying to make? also, after using a flattening stone for a while, do you need to flatten the flattening stone? or is this also just extra technical stuff that shouldn't be worried about?
hi, the link you mention in the Sharpening Station for the bridge refers to the Naniwa Sink Bridge. In the last couple videos, you are using something different. What are the pros/cons about the 2 different items?
the what bridge in this video is all plastic and steel that can rust. retailed for $45 when i get it last year, and no one sells it anymore. don't try looking it. EVERYTHING rusts.
I learned alot from you on this video, Thank you! And if I may share my opinion when it comes to accelerating the degradation of sharpening stones, I have always used Shapu and Naiwa Stones, and felt that it dishonors the hard work and craft of the men who make these stones by hand. Great care has been given in the making, great care should be demonstrated in the ownership. I know they probably don't mind because they would sell more, but there is a Zen to the whole process that I experience I could be coming off seemingly hyperbolic about all this, but would you not care a great deal for a Koto Sword? Same goes for the tools to care for it. End Rant
hey mate, you saying there is not much material coming off when sharpening knife on whetstone, how ever i noticed my stone have quiet large deep in stone while sharpening it in one direction idk if i pressing it to strong whch i not sure i just trying make sure thart my blade is well sticked to the stone like i was watching video from global asian guy doing it but i not feel much of force between fingers so idk maybe should release strengh in pressing my knife meanwhile?... also any other way to flatter it if u dont have any type of plate or anything like it ?
1000% agree with his advice, esp since it’s applying to knifes almost solely, and the curvature of knives creates a contact point so small at the stone that it does not matter whatsoever to be perfect flat when it comes to sharpening a curved edge (there IS obviously a limit in that tolerance, duh, BUT that limit is nowhere near what most ppl believe it to be when sharpening knives..) If you need a machined dead flat surface on another tool other than a knife, well then yeah flatten before for that use definitely. But for day to day knife sharpening it just is verrrrry rarely (if ever...) needed Cheers
do you know how to re-furbish a stone? found a random stone in a flea market, very dished out, but undished portion is very clogged, and I'm having issues with flatten that. sandpaper did nothing, nor did other stones. do you have any tips?
Having often ended up with second-hand and abused stones, myself... I've found a "wire wheel" on a drill or grinder to be a wonderful advancement for refurbishing in general... It's especially useful for "Clogging Material" ... The two primary types I prefer are Brass wire and Steel wire... Brass is softer, so it does less damage, while you "chip away" at the unwanted material... Steel is more aggressive, in some cases when some "idiot" gobbed up the stone by using it to grind on aluminum, for instance... Smaller stones are best "attacked" with a drill mounted wheel... BUT with larger stones (wear gloves and eye protection FFS!) a good bench grinder with a brass wheel on one side and a steel wheel on the other side is near-indispensable! You CAN get a "knotted wire wheel" or cup of either variety, though they are a bit more expensive and MUCH more aggressive. If you're really tired or frustrated, I can understand the allure, but I will caution, the knotted wire wheels are easily made very destructive... On the other side of that stinky little coin, though... Sometimes you just need a bit more aggression in the cleaning instrument to get the job done. ya know? ;o)
Hello, i was gifted a Myabi a while back & have recently become interested in Japanese knifes, the maker's are amazing. Some of these knives are not only a tool but a work of art. I enjoy your videos but i do see alot more high end sharpeners doing the flattening. I know you've gotten to visit some of these master blacksmiths & sharpeners in Japan, what a awesome trip! What did you see the master sharpeners doing? Flattening or not? Did the question come up?
Exelent video i own king de luxe 1000,cerax and shapton 1000 and yes shapton is the fastest is my favorite. I would like to ask you something : It is possible to rectify my Shapton 1000 with one Shapton 320 or 120 if i buy one ,or I have to buy a special rectify stone like naniwa 220 or 120 ? Thanks
@@Burrfection what freedom said. I was wondering though.. when you DO flatten a stone.. have you ever had a stone become "glazed"? (Particularly lower grit / coarser stones)? Glazed meaning that the stone itself is like polished smooth and won't really sharpen anything until it's redressed (in case that term isn't one you've heard or something) - I recently had this happen to me with one of my stones and was wondering: If you have had this happen to you (or have heard of it) how do you deal with this? Do you use the tempered glass / SiC powder that everyone else seems to recommend?
In future episodes he recommends the rust eraser. Which is great. However my stone isnt cutting anymore after using it. Does this mean I should get a nagura? Or what?
Just give it one or two laps with a 600 grit diamond plate. I'll give the stone a better surface to sharpen upon. Mind you, don't be too aggressive with the rust eraser or the diamond plate either.
I use Waterstones to sharpen tools (e.g. chisel, planes etc) and I've definitely seen them dish. I think that's because of the width of the tools, their hardness, and how much I'm rubbing?
What do you use to maintain your stones. I believe you mentioned a cheaper alternative you found on Amazon to clean the stones but I didn't get the name.
Great video, Ryky. Unless you have a friend to show you the ropes, you're likely to make mistakes early on in the learning process, especially when there's a lot of conflicting advice and a lot of stuff you can buy that purports to solve your problems. They dangle these $300 diamond plates in front of you, and then you see folks lapping stones on glass and sandpaper, on other stones, on cinder blocks and patches of cement and you say hold on a minute here and you keep your wallet in your pocket. If you want to give me permission not to obsess about stone flatness or spend a pile of money on it I'll accept with gratitude.
Hi Ricky (im sorry if i spelt it wrong), i really like your videos. I think youre a great knife sharpener, you've got real form. I think you have stated really sound points here. Yup flattening really hogs off the material. I get that point. I also get that your kitchen knife with its curved edge is not going to pick up that discrepency especially if you sharpen by hand. I mean if your presenting angle raises by a tenth of a degree then your already presenting a curved edge into a dished stone surface. But what about people who use their waterstones with honing guides to sharpen chisels and plane irons? One may not notice by eye, a 1 micron camber in the leading edge but the actual burr creation from the two planes meeting will pick it up. In order to get a sharp flat edge, you need to have two flat planes meet without a radius. So a dished stone will compromise the planes even by a micron which will then create either an incomplete burr across the edge or an inconsistently thick burr. This is where my conflict arises. I would love to not flatten, and not hog off so much material, but my woodworking tools dont sharpen so well on a un-flat surface. So can you advise me on what you recommend in this particular scenario?
Maybe use one side of your stones for knives (unflattened), and the other side for chisels and the like (flattened)? If you do a lot of chisel sharpening, then the stone will get a lot of flattening. If you do a lot of knife sharpening, it won't. It seems like it would help, since you would not have to flatten every time, only when you are going sharpen woodworking stuff. The only concern I'd have is if the stone was dished on the knife side, you might want to use something that supports the dished (therefore thinner than the ends) area from underneath when you are sharpening on the woodworking side. Your pressure shouldn't be so heavy to crack the stone, but just something to consider.
yeah i agree with you. but i use my whetstones fr tools. i am not a knife sharpener, i hardly sharpen knives. if i did then i would not bother with flattening.
If you'd like you actually find out how deep the dishing is, you can use a depth micrometer to find out how deep the dishing is. most can read out to the thousandth, even the cheaper ones.
So apparently wetstones can get to a point where they stop sharpening. So u need to bring a new clean sharp surface to the surface of the stone. You posted Ur comment a year ago, so did u ever find the answer somewhere else perhaps? Because I'm currently having the same problem as you
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People are getting far to technical here with the 1-2 micron comment it wasn’t meant to be scientific and exact he is just stating it’s barely any difference! I have a Cerax 1k stone, normal size and I flatten it when I notice the edge isn’t making even contact whether it’s 5 or 25 knives. I’ve done a couple hundred knives on the Cerax 1k stone and it’s still over a centimeter thick. It’s impossible to say every ten knives or every 3 knives because it’s all relative to how bad the edge was the hardness of the steel the ability of the sharpener etc. my advice is use as much of the stone as you can and when you feel like your making uneven contact flatten it.
THANK YOU!
Agreed. If you are sharpening or stropping a knife on a whetstone use every inch of the stone. That is what help flatten and evenly wears the stone. Only use a nagura stone when you need to clean metal shavings off of the surface of the whetstone or you need to create a thick slurry to have a more aggressive sharpening or stropping session. Practice!
But still, it is important to deliver correct information. If you worry about it, you can just don't say it.
For only a few bucks, a straight edge and a set of feeler gauges would give a precise answer. I have a King 1k/6k that has seen only light use sharping plane irons, and I just checked to find that a 0.002" feeler gauge slid into the dish with ease.
So I guess I need to flatten because my dish is an order-of-magnitude deeper than his?
Yup. Also, the flattening is only needed for plane irons and such. It IS SUPER IMPORTANT that your stone is flat, within reason. For knife blades and such, it doesn't really matter. Like the post says, flaten it when your blades aren't making good contact. If you're sharpening a blade with a reference surface, such as a chisel or plane, then yeah, keep it in mind, but don't get obsessive...
I'm a newbie and have been looking for what I need to get started and the variety and combinations out there are daunting. Everyone has something they tell you you need to have and I almost gave up completely when I saw that the stones needed to be flattened. I was ready to just find someone to fix my knives for me. Seeing your videos have eased my fears and I thank you.
1:20. What a humble man. Kudos for you mate. But I disagree... I think you are exactly the person we should be getting our tips from.
Love and appreciate all your videos thanks for all your hard work
You are so right. Ive used stones where you can even see the belly and I can still get it sharp even though then I believe i should flatten it. I have gotten used stones like that and sharpened knives just to see how the stone was. Not big kitchen knives but pocket knives so in this case I was not using the entire stone but I did however sharpen the knife. Its nice to see people not being wasteful and conserve what they have. Mainly just not filling peoples heads with missinformation. You mainly flatten a stone with your sharpening and using every inch of the stone. Anyways I love your videos there very informative and I really enjoy watching them and appreciate how open minded you are about topics and remain unbias even though everyone is to a degree and thats fine. People also need to have opinions and in this day and age with all the commenters I think too many you tubers have to walk on eggshells or at least they do.
Same. I have a cheap stone with quite an impressive bow to it, but can still get a hair whittling edge. Funny to see some of the elitists in the comments
Murray explains in one of his videos how he uses the whole surface. If he sees a high spot he focuses on that spot to level it out. Like you said he is a master, I'm sure it takes a lot of skill to sharpen that well while maintaining a flat stone from sharpening on different edges each time. That being said I've tried to keep it flat but it is natural for me to move back into the center. I'm sure I will learn though. Great videos, I've enjoyed seeing and hearing about all the different stones and knives you have the privilege to get your hands on.
I learned to sharpen from Murray Carter's videos. I tend to agree that you really don't need to flatten every time. Also, I suck compared to Murray and you, and I don't sharpen NEAR the number of knives you guys do, however, I do get more than acceptable results. I suppose if a dish started giving me problems, I wouldn't mind flattening, it just hasn't happened yet.
I feel like if you wait to flatten, or if you flatten every time the material you take off would end up being the same. Keep up the good work!
Great video mate! I absolutely agree with you. The first time I ever needed to flatten my stone was after 5 years, and that's because I was sharpening a scandi ground knife and needed a flat surface; otherwise I wouldn't have done it
100%
I knew it! Now I finally used one of those last night & not only did it just not seem right & all that but the amount of material I lost was freaking nuts. Long story short I went to look into this & found this video. Thank you brother for the video, it was helpful
Love your honest videos!! Im new to all of this and your videos have helped so much!
THANK YOU FOR AN AWESOME AND TIME/MONEY SAVING VIDEO!!!
I don't care how old it is! I've probably sharpened about every "type" of cutting edge there is... AND I've gotten by with just about any reasonable sharpening instrument for the task. From taking an "EZ Lap" Diamond grit sharpening rod to axes and chisels, to needle-files for the micro-serrations on a Ginsu set I found in a thrift store for a dollar!
I almost never flatten a stone! I only periodically bother "resurfacing" the stones in my dremel, drill, and bench-grinder collections. (Angle grinder stones just don't last long enough around here to bother)
The REAL answer to a truly sharp and consistent edge on any cutter or blade is Technique. You have to "get a feel" and "tune your ears" for the job. It takes time and practice. That's not to say that there's absolutely no purpose served in flattening, either. BECAUSE if you paid attention, you'd see clearly that I specifically ALMOST never flatten a stone.
On that, it comes down to "making the judgment call"... Every particular sharpener and sharpening shop(?) is going to be a bit different. SO everyone's personal experience is also going to be a bit different, and we (general knife and care enthusiasts) should be able to take our growing knowledge and balance what the purpose is for flattening with the expense (between effort, time, and stone-material lost) to find our own terms for flattening our stones. I think that's really what this video is about, even if it's not specifically said in just so many terms.
AGAIN, RYKY, Thank you so much, for working toward that "use your better judgment" and giving a bit of a push back on those "expert sales people". I hate the worry that "teaching" always has to come with some ulterior motivation to sell me something. ;o)
Very good solid information for knife sharpening. You certainly do not need a flat surface to sharpen most knives. Flattening stones regularly is only slightly more critical when sharpening flat edges such as chisels & plane iron/blades for very fine wood working.
Great video! And thanks for turning me onto Murray Carter. That dude is the real deal.
hahah. yeah, he's pretty impressive.
Awesome video man!! Very informative. You earned my subscription 👊 much appreciated
WOW! I also just spit on my stone. Cool to see your setup, stone holder and all.
Thanks for this video it's alway interesting when you throw tips from the masters. I guess that by being fluid on the stone and by having an equal grind everywhere on the surface then you don't really need maintenance.
Hey Ryky,,,, Being a beginner in the Splash/Go, wet stone community,,,, I see you as the “Ip man “ of the sharpening/ wet stone Universe. You might laugh,, but even your demeanor , character and ethics really match. I Greatly appreciate this video and the one on “the burr”,,,!!!!! These short tutorials are really helpful.
His Blessings,,,, Joshua
I never flattened my stones until I got into woodworking - that’s when I realized how important it was to have a flat stone - but that’s only because you’re sharpening flat faced chisels and plane blades that need to be as close to flat as you can get it, because those blades are responsible for shaving the thinnest amounts of wood fiber you possibly can at times to get very precise joints and fits
But aside from that - I agree, I personally feel like my sharpening is more intuitive and natural once I break in a stone and get my own personalized groove In my knife stones
Love your videos man 🤙🤙
Humble, honest, and fair assessment. I have wondered about the small dip in one of my stones, the effect upon a knife sharpened across it, and the consequent need for flattening the stone. Should the need arise, the example here shows how to flatten with a diamond stone and the reason to use a Nagura stone afterwards. Very useful information. Danke.
This video was VERY helpful! Thank you.
Thank you for this video, I just got my first whetstone and was wonderring what about maintaining the stone. Thanks for the vid!
Thank you. I get a feeling that you use so much common sense it's soothing.
The main reason I love watching people here on youtube who doesn’t sell products or endorsed by some snake oil products... just plain honest tips and reviews without the BS sales jargon...
TY!!!
First video I've ever watched, he couldn't have said it in more layman's terms and simplified everything.
I really like this video (saw this video one or two months ago, maybe on your other channel). But the best tip you gave for maintaining a whetstone is to use the Rust Erasers instead of the nagura stone. Thx for that.
exactly, compared to Nagura they are much more affordable :)
What is the difference between a Nagura and a Rust Eraser? I bought the Rust Erasers that Ryky recommended and they do a very nice job of cleaning up the stones, but are they so soft that they remove little to no material?
Also, I just noticed the description on the link on the Amazon page says to soak the Rust Eraser for 10 minutes... is that true? I couldn't tell from the packaging, because it's all in Japanese!
The Nagura won't last as long as the Rust Eraser will. I don't know how long my Rust Eraser will last, but I bet I will still have it in 5 years.
Both Nagura and Rust Eraser are suppose to remove the metal from the stone. They are not designed for removing the stone material itself. So, you cannot flatten a stone with them.
You need to soak both the whetstone and the Rust Eraser. I reckon the Japanese instructions on the packaging aren't really useful for this kind of application, since the Rust Eraser's main purpose isn't really to clean up whetstones.
Got it... thanks! I haven't been soaking my rust eraser, and it has been cleaning my stones nicely... I'll have to let them soak and see how they do (probably easier on the stones, which has already been pretty easy).
To clean the embedded metal from my 1,000 and 12,000 grit ceramic stone, I use a wet sponge scrub away the metal. before during or after. If done during it can remove the metal and expose the sharp abrasive for continued efficient sharpening
Thanks dude. I just almost paid $17 for one of those stupid little cleaner stones.
Love to listen to an honest, totally transparent (more than Casper the Ghost), humble guy!
I've been collecting and sharpening blades since I was a pre-teen and now I'm older than that :) and I agree with you 100%
thank you !
This is amazing info. Thank you!
I bought myself cheap diamond flattener, I plan to keep it untouched until I see a noticeable dent in my stones. That was a common sense to me.
I'm glad suehiro stones come with nagura now. I didn't know what they are for really, I thought they are flattening stones as well, now I know thanks.
Thank you! I just picked up Shapton pro 320, 1000 and 5000 stones for a sweet deal to learn whetstone sharpening, and I was about to drop $90 on an atoma 140 or 400. I'll save my money
Hi, thanks for the information. what happens if I leave my whetstones permanently in water ? would it affect its performance?
Thank you Sir for this information!
When I sharpen on my kuromaku stones I move the blade around like virtuovice does. It minimizes dishing
Thank you, i feel the same as you do. What is the name of the stone with which you are cleaning the whestone? Is it Nagura stone or something else? If yes, what could be the grid of this (nagura) stone?
hi ryky, i've been using a king combo 1000/6000 stone. lately the 6000 grit has been getting "dirty" so i use the rust eraser you recommended to clear it up (finer one). The stone started building black bumps cover up the whole stone. i tried using a nagura as well and it did not help. If you know what they are and how to remove that would be a great help. Thanks you
thank you so much as i use different grades of sandpaper,but going to 1000 and 6000 grit and now nagura stone.
Thank you I am really enjoying your channel. I am wood worker and pretty experienced with sharpening plane irons and chisels. We have always had it beat in our brains you must flatten your stones and I agree when you must have a perfectly flat back in a chisel and must have a perfect square edge on a plane iron. But what you are saying about the microns difference has me wondering if I really need to be so anal about it when sharpening the very micro bevels in tools every time. I really want to learn knife sharpening so thanks
He's talking about knives. Regular, double bevel knives. Plane tools require dead flat stones. This isn't a video about wood working, it's about kitchen knives. This information does not apply to wood working.
Thank you for clarifying this fact!!
Great video, I'm new to your channel, wish I found it sooner.
better late than never, welcome hitinui!
Hes right, untill you get into custom carpentry sharpening hand chisels and block planes. Then a flat stone is absolutly a must. I cook and do woodwork. If i was just sharpening knived i wouldnt be so anal about flat stones
Exactly. The only thing I'll say is not just block planes. Any flat backed blade basically. This includes all chisels, try and jointer planes, etc. Even then, I don't flatten every single use, but maybe after three or four blades, and I run a 1000 grit diamond plate to take off the least amount from my stone. I've never had a nagura though, until yesterday when my new dabato md 100 came in. Any tips on the use of the nagura with this splash stone? Should it be splashed or soaked, or should only the dabato be splashed? All instructions were in Japanese so I'm clueless. That being said I've sharpened two plane blades on it and love love love the stone.
No wonder why i felt something is very off after I lapped 6k king with diamond plate but didnt use nagura afterward. I saw marks n scratches on my knife and raised my eyebrows left to right questioning if its the nature of lapping or I did something wrong. It cuts still but felt very toothy not smooth n somewhat polished but lots of marks. Yes it shocked me how much stuffs go to waste from lapping.
"Do not forget nagura after lapping" i'll keep repeating until it roots in my brain cell. Thx Ryky🤙🏻🤙🏻
Great vid. Thanks!
Should I soak my debato nagura? I just got the MD 100 based on one of your vids, but I'm new to the splash and go style...AMAZING STONE BY THE WAY!
I use my stones to sharpen woodworking tools as well as knifes. If I am trying to sharpen a bench plane iron (a flat chisel like edge) would being dead flat be important? Would the slight hollow give me a non-uniform edge on a large chisel edge?
I really hope you can answer my question. I just bought a sharpening kit of whetstones of Gting brand.
For some reason the 8000 grit side of my stone feels way more coarse and it just doesn't feel right. What can I do to fix it ?
Being new to knife sharpening ,but not new to sharpening other types of tools for my former trade (retired) . Thanks for many very good videos and tips. Lots of info and I've learned a lot from your videos .
BUT , after purchasing a Nanina super stone 3000 grit 10MM . I found, after the 1st use, My New, once used whetstone, is not even close to flat . So bought a Naniwa flattening stone (which is not close to flat either , I can rock it on a decent straight edge i own) .
I guess that whetstone is anywhere from 1/64"- 1/125" off . I think that is more than a micron or 2 . Even the 20MM Naniwa whetstones (both Super Stones ,400 and 800) I also got at the same time where out of flat .
So I guess there are times when flatting is needed .....
When you see light, between the straight edge and the stone and the center(of the stone) is higher then either end of the stone, I would guess you can not sharpen anything well, if you try using the whole stone . I believe it makes keeping the angle of the knife, level all the way though the pass .
Somewhat flat should be good to go . But as I worked with tolerances in the 1K's of an inch, It can make a difference .
Yup, I am picky about things like this , and after reading and seeing all those great reviews , I bought a few . Disappointed is a word that comes to mind .
Despite the issues with the stones I have . I have been able to get to a good place getting a sharp knife . I give credit to pointers on the videos I seen here and a few other sites. Practice , practice ,practice.
Hi Ricky love your videos learning as much as I can from you..what size nagura stone or grit should I use on a chosera 800 and 3000 I'm getting because of watching you also I'll be getting a shapton 320 for profiling is that a good grit for re profiling ???Thanks!!! -Dustin
can you link the brown nagura you use in the video?
I have the Chosera 1000, which came with a Nagura stone; but, I don't know what grit it is. Do you? What is the finest whetstone on which I ought to use this Nagura? 3000? 5000? Please, advise. Thank you.
What about the small stones that come with cerax soaking stones? Are those acceptable to use? Are ea one specific to the one it came with?
How about New stones? I bought an chesera 800 and a 3000 and all the edges are taking off metal, there turning dark gray to black. Do I need to flatten at first? Mike
I started setting the bevel on a brand new straight razor and a brand new #400 grit Yoshihiro stone but after only a few minutes the stone became dull and smooth almost like a #8000 grit stone. Is that normal? Is that something that should be fixed with a fixer stone?
Hi, bit a late reaction, but I started with sharpening just recently ... So I bought pretty cheap "begginers" whetstone 2-sided 1000/3000 which I found good enough for my knives. But the 1000 side is sufferring a lot developing a "bow" so I had to flatten it. So - is my technique wrong, or is it the cheap stone (roughly 60USD)? I am kinda satisfied with the results, but the bow is driving me nuts as it prevents me to use the whole surface of the stone. Also if you can give a tip for making the tip of the knife the same sharpness as the rest :-)
Thanks and greetings from Czech Republic
solid video mate
one thing you mentioned was once you flattened a whetstone with a coarser flattening plate, you want to use a softer stone such as the nagura to change the stone's texture back to its original smoothness, was this a point you were trying to make? also, after using a flattening stone for a while, do you need to flatten the flattening stone? or is this also just extra technical stuff that shouldn't be worried about?
hi, the link you mention in the Sharpening Station for the bridge refers to the Naniwa Sink Bridge. In the last couple videos, you are using something different. What are the pros/cons about the 2 different items?
the what bridge in this video is all plastic and steel that can rust. retailed for $45 when i get it last year, and no one sells it anymore. don't try looking it. EVERYTHING rusts.
I learned alot from you on this video, Thank you! And if I may share my opinion when it comes to accelerating the degradation of sharpening stones, I have always used Shapu and Naiwa Stones, and felt that it dishonors the hard work and craft of the men who make these stones by hand. Great care has been given in the making, great care should be demonstrated in the ownership. I know they probably don't mind because they would sell more, but there is a Zen to the whole process that I experience I could be coming off seemingly hyperbolic about all this, but would you not care a great deal for a Koto Sword? Same goes for the tools to care for it. End Rant
Take your meds.
Which Nagura Stone are you using...I see that they come in different grits
hey mate, you saying there is not much material coming off when sharpening knife on whetstone, how ever i noticed my stone have quiet large deep in stone while sharpening it in one direction idk if i pressing it to strong whch i not sure i just trying make sure thart my blade is well sticked to the stone like i was watching video from global asian guy doing it but i not feel much of force between fingers so idk maybe should release strengh in pressing my knife meanwhile?... also any other way to flatter it if u dont have any type of plate or anything like it ?
1000% agree with his advice, esp since it’s applying to knifes almost solely, and the curvature of knives creates a contact point so small at the stone that it does not matter whatsoever to be perfect flat when it comes to sharpening a curved edge (there IS obviously a limit in that tolerance, duh, BUT that limit is nowhere near what most ppl believe it to be when sharpening knives..)
If you need a machined dead flat surface on another tool other than a knife, well then yeah flatten before for that use definitely. But for day to day knife sharpening it just is verrrrry rarely (if ever...) needed
Cheers
Thank you!
do you know how to re-furbish a stone? found a random stone in a flea market, very dished out, but undished portion is very clogged, and I'm having issues with flatten that. sandpaper did nothing, nor did other stones. do you have any tips?
you will need to grind away all the older parts of the stone. i use this amzn.to/2w35zlh, or this amzn.to/2wCsqrz
Elbow grease
Having often ended up with second-hand and abused stones, myself... I've found a "wire wheel" on a drill or grinder to be a wonderful advancement for refurbishing in general... It's especially useful for "Clogging Material" ...
The two primary types I prefer are Brass wire and Steel wire... Brass is softer, so it does less damage, while you "chip away" at the unwanted material... Steel is more aggressive, in some cases when some "idiot" gobbed up the stone by using it to grind on aluminum, for instance...
Smaller stones are best "attacked" with a drill mounted wheel... BUT with larger stones (wear gloves and eye protection FFS!) a good bench grinder with a brass wheel on one side and a steel wheel on the other side is near-indispensable!
You CAN get a "knotted wire wheel" or cup of either variety, though they are a bit more expensive and MUCH more aggressive. If you're really tired or frustrated, I can understand the allure, but I will caution, the knotted wire wheels are easily made very destructive... On the other side of that stinky little coin, though... Sometimes you just need a bit more aggression in the cleaning instrument to get the job done. ya know? ;o)
Where do you get that silver base? The one that spans the "tub"
Hello,
i was gifted a Myabi a while back & have recently become interested in Japanese knifes, the maker's are amazing. Some of these knives are not only a tool but a work of art. I enjoy your videos but i do see alot more high end sharpeners doing the flattening. I know you've gotten to visit some of these master blacksmiths & sharpeners in Japan, what a awesome trip! What did you see the master sharpeners doing? Flattening or not? Did the question come up?
What nagura stone grit do you use?
what grit, hardness, of a nagrua stone do you recommend for a king 1000/6000
1000 grits
For 3000 - 6000 grit normally you get 1000 grit nagura stone for stone line Suehiro. So i guess 1000 grit is best for medium to fine grit stone
@Noble6 So does granite, but like granite it's not enough to affect anything unless in very large quantities.
Fair advise for knives, not sure I'd want to be working with anything other than a pure flat surface for honing my straight razors though.
U R A real Gentleman RyKy!
Exelent video i own king de luxe 1000,cerax and shapton 1000 and yes shapton is the fastest is my favorite.
I would like to ask you something : It is possible to rectify my Shapton 1000 with one Shapton 320 or 120 if i buy one ,or I have to buy a special rectify stone like naniwa 220 or 120 ?
Thanks
I like no BS videos. Subscribed ✊🔫🇺🇸
welcome.
@@Burrfection what freedom said. I was wondering though.. when you DO flatten a stone.. have you ever had a stone become "glazed"? (Particularly lower grit / coarser stones)? Glazed meaning that the stone itself is like polished smooth and won't really sharpen anything until it's redressed (in case that term isn't one you've heard or something) - I recently had this happen to me with one of my stones and was wondering: If you have had this happen to you (or have heard of it) how do you deal with this? Do you use the tempered glass / SiC powder that everyone else seems to recommend?
Can I use King Japanese Nagura Stone @ on my SHAPTON Ceramic KUROMAKU #320 or King @ and @? Thank You Sir #Question
If you have a 300 grit King stone. Can you still use a atoma 400 as q flattener. I also have a nanaiwa professional range of stones
If you sharpen straight razor's (aka cutthroat) should you flatten them before each use?
Should I use a Sabitoru or nagura stone for cleaning my Venev diamond stones?
Can I use the nagura dressing stone on all my shapton ceramic stones?
In future episodes he recommends the rust eraser. Which is great. However my stone isnt cutting anymore after using it. Does this mean I should get a nagura? Or what?
Just give it one or two laps with a 600 grit diamond plate. I'll give the stone a better surface to sharpen upon. Mind you, don't be too aggressive with the rust eraser or the diamond plate either.
I use Waterstones to sharpen tools (e.g. chisel, planes etc) and I've definitely seen them dish. I think that's because of the width of the tools, their hardness, and how much I'm rubbing?
What do you use to maintain your stones. I believe you mentioned a cheaper alternative you found on Amazon to clean the stones but I didn't get the name.
these amzn.to/2gyVlDm
Sabitoru medium (white writing). The fine one (red writing) is more useful for using directly on metal.
What sharpening stones and Nagura stones do you recommend?
Does the dressing stone as to be the same grit with my stone? Can you suggest a dressingg stone for a 8000 grit Zwilling stone.
What would you use on shapton ceramic stones?
Thanks for that.
what grit is that nagura stone he is using in that video?
How do you store your whetstone after using it?
Thanks!
Great video, Ryky. Unless you have a friend to show you the ropes, you're likely to make mistakes early on in the learning process, especially when there's a lot of conflicting advice and a lot of stuff you can buy that purports to solve your problems. They dangle these $300 diamond plates in front of you, and then you see folks lapping stones on glass and sandpaper, on other stones, on cinder blocks and patches of cement and you say hold on a minute here and you keep your wallet in your pocket. If you want to give me permission not to obsess about stone flatness or spend a pile of money on it I'll accept with gratitude.
Hi Ricky (im sorry if i spelt it wrong), i really like your videos. I think youre a great knife sharpener, you've got real form. I think you have stated really sound points here. Yup flattening really hogs off the material. I get that point. I also get that your kitchen knife with its curved edge is not going to pick up that discrepency especially if you sharpen by hand. I mean if your presenting angle raises by a tenth of a degree then your already presenting a curved edge into a dished stone surface.
But what about people who use their waterstones with honing guides to sharpen chisels and plane irons? One may not notice by eye, a 1 micron camber in the leading edge but the actual burr creation from the two planes meeting will pick it up. In order to get a sharp flat edge, you need to have two flat planes meet without a radius. So a dished stone will compromise the planes even by a micron which will then create either an incomplete burr across the edge or an inconsistently thick burr.
This is where my conflict arises. I would love to not flatten, and not hog off so much material, but my woodworking tools dont sharpen so well on a un-flat surface.
So can you advise me on what you recommend in this particular scenario?
Maybe use one side of your stones for knives (unflattened), and the other side for chisels and the like (flattened)? If you do a lot of chisel sharpening, then the stone will get a lot of flattening. If you do a lot of knife sharpening, it won't. It seems like it would help, since you would not have to flatten every time, only when you are going sharpen woodworking stuff.
The only concern I'd have is if the stone was dished on the knife side, you might want to use something that supports the dished (therefore thinner than the ends) area from underneath when you are sharpening on the woodworking side. Your pressure shouldn't be so heavy to crack the stone, but just something to consider.
yeah i agree with you. but i use my whetstones fr tools. i am not a knife sharpener, i hardly sharpen knives. if i did then i would not bother with flattening.
Yeah, then you probably need to flatten regularly.
I have a 1000 and 4000 sharpeningstone what nagura stone shall i buy??
i do keep my stones pretty flat, because its hard to sharpen a yanagiba or deba if the stones arent flat
Sharpening stones used for speed skating blades MUST BE totally flat. Do you have a link for the flattening stone you use - large silver one ?
Love it
If you'd like you actually find out how deep the dishing is, you can use a depth micrometer to find out how deep the dishing is. most can read out to the thousandth, even the cheaper ones.
What grit Nagura stone should I get?
True n honest youtuber
Flattening after is the same as flattening before a new use. In effect you would be flattening twice before using the stone once.
my shun stone 1000/6000 suddenly stopped sharping my knives !! is it damaged?
So apparently wetstones can get to a point where they stop sharpening. So u need to bring a new clean sharp surface to the surface of the stone. You posted Ur comment a year ago, so did u ever find the answer somewhere else perhaps? Because I'm currently having the same problem as you
@@VividBoi Did you ever find a solution? A cheap stone, even some concrete, or sand paper, or a nagura stone, should resurface the whetstone for you.
Glad I watched this before I used my 3 new stones.
Sorry if this has been asked already: 5:00 what is the chalk-stone thing you useed called, a megga Stone?
bur.re/SBeraser get the medium to clean your whetstones with
@@Burrfection Thanks for responding so quickly. I’ve placed an order. Take care.
How do you store whetstones??
hello ricky where can i buy that Nagura Stone for Sharpening Honing Waterstones Whetstones that you are using in this video
amzn.to/2I9UHh5 the 12K is really nice, but choose one that's slightly higher than the polishing stone you are using it on
i just used diamond stone 400grit and 1000 grit and it is good as new