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Great discussion... thanks for posting! I hope I don't offend by offering this correction. I think Harrison is apprehended the same day he escapes rather than years later. Also, no doves, but I think the use of birdshot is significant. Birds and flight are associated with freedom. Harrison himself is mid-flight when he's felled by it.
Thanks for creating these reviews. This is the third one I've used in my high school English class. They are really spot on. I had a thought about the birdshot question. Icarus immediately came to my mind with the birdshot foreshadowing Harrison's demise. On one level, the classic Icarus story of pride and hubris flying too close to the sun all apply. However, it's interesting that the Handicapper General's middle name is Moon, which I take as a symbol for gravity. Harrison attempts to get too far away from the ground, from baseline. It's the symbol for gravity, the moon, that brings Harrison and his fellow bird back down to Earth. The moon greatly influences the Earth, and has a massive gravitational pull on the Earth; so in that respect, the Handicapper General is gravity pulling the hubristic Harrison back down. Lastly, Harrison is a bird symbolically, which as mentioned below is symbolically associated with freedom. He floats. He is above everyone. He has maybe evolved, as you mentioned. He defies gravity. He defies the moon. He defies the law. He steps outside of the "they", and since none of these things can happen, he and his empress are shot dead, the birdshot foreshadowing their end. The "they" will always affect its influence on you just like gravity. I mentioned that this is the third review I've used. It would have been the fourth had you guys reviewed Daphne du Maurier's "The Birds." Hint. Hint.
Interesting discussion. Incoming long comment! I work in education, assisting with PD for principals to teach inclusion and instructional improvement with the goal of making sure every student is taught to the highest level of quality and rigor. It’s easier to teach to lower standards, especially if a teacher has a negative bias toward a student, culture of the school, etc. And it’s easier, in the story’s case, to handicap society rather than bring people up. So another take could be that the ones in power, like the Handicapper General, purposely keep others down in order to stay in power while Harrison wants to reward people based on their differences and lift others up. Granted done in a not great way. I think most people don’t argue to be equal in the sense of “we are exactly the same, skills and all” but rather closer to, like mentioned, equal opportunity. As for the “getting rid of envy” in making people equal is skills, looks, etc. I agree that you can’t get rid of envy unless they invented an emotional handicap. In real like that’s more of an emotional/social learning that people need to go through. Earlier, I mentioned bringing people up, but even then that doesn’t mean making everyone a star athlete. Just give people the same access to even be in the running. Especially in education. As for the publishing discussion that was brought up, I find a bit of an issue going from the discussion of “we’re not equal based on physical skills etc” and “lowest common denominator” to more marginalized people getting deals. Granted, that was quickly glossed over in the video, but the way it was said leads to thought that marginalized people weren’t getting deals in the first place BECAUSE they didn’t have the skills and now are only getting deals on an outcome based system. Obviously, a quota system is bad because that reduces someone to just one thing rather than take it into account as the entire person. And Affirmative Action isn’t a quota system, just because some universities implemented something incorrectly.
Your job is a fantastic thing and I'm sure you're much more eloquent in that area than I could possibly be. Apologies if we jumped around too much in our chats and I'm sure that can lead to us looking horrible or saying things inaccurately, particularly with poor comparisons. It's definitely important for bias minimization and we didn't mean to have implied a skill gap. If we glossed over it, I think that the subject would need its own video and need to be scripted to avoid being mishandled like it sounds like we have done. I obviously don't know the answers to the problems, I'd be a much more valuable person to the world if I did. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I didn't know that about your job title and find it fascinating.
It's no problem! Just something I'm passionate about as Ive previously worked for a literacy nonprofit and also higher education state agency and now in Pre-K to 12 area. I also know the downsides to non scripted nuanced discussions. I like hearing your guys' perspectives because you do so in, my opinion, a well meaning manner. Just adding to the discussion since I felt I had a different perspective! I'm always up for an open interesting discussion around education.
I live in the UK and the worst performers in schools are white working class boys, yet their needs and aspirations are neglected. I would like to know if the same situation occurs in America
Thank you for this comment (I had a similar response) and CodeX Cantina for your willingness to listen and reflect. The publishing industry has historically been dominated by white people in positions of power. White people making decisions on what is printed and what isn’t. Even with the best of intentions, we are drawn to stories that reflect our experiences. Efforts to increase published BIPOC authors serves to balance an industry that was systematically unbalanced. As a teacher of student body that is representative of the diversity in the US, I am very grateful that my students are starting to see mirrors of themselves in the stories we read.
Kurt Vonnegut Playlist: ruclips.net/video/cy32w2mIbqQ/видео.html
Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/thecodexcantina
BOOKMARKS:
Publication Info: @0:27
Quotes: @3:21
Summary: @6:50
Analysis @7:36
Thanks for watching!
Great discussion... thanks for posting! I hope I don't offend by offering this correction. I think Harrison is apprehended the same day he escapes rather than years later. Also, no doves, but I think the use of birdshot is significant. Birds and flight are associated with freedom. Harrison himself is mid-flight when he's felled by it.
Wow you guys! This is amazing. I’m so grateful that I came upon this discussion
Thanks for creating these reviews. This is the third one I've used in my high school English class. They are really spot on. I had a thought about the birdshot question. Icarus immediately came to my mind with the birdshot foreshadowing Harrison's demise. On one level, the classic Icarus story of pride and hubris flying too close to the sun all apply. However, it's interesting that the Handicapper General's middle name is Moon, which I take as a symbol for gravity. Harrison attempts to get too far away from the ground, from baseline. It's the symbol for gravity, the moon, that brings Harrison and his fellow bird back down to Earth. The moon greatly influences the Earth, and has a massive gravitational pull on the Earth; so in that respect, the Handicapper General is gravity pulling the hubristic Harrison back down. Lastly, Harrison is a bird symbolically, which as mentioned below is symbolically associated with freedom. He floats. He is above everyone. He has maybe evolved, as you mentioned. He defies gravity. He defies the moon. He defies the law. He steps outside of the "they", and since none of these things can happen, he and his empress are shot dead, the birdshot foreshadowing their end. The "they" will always affect its influence on you just like gravity.
I mentioned that this is the third review I've used. It would have been the fourth had you guys reviewed Daphne du Maurier's "The Birds." Hint. Hint.
Thank you for your thoughtful analysis and for sharing it
Interesting discussion. Incoming long comment! I work in education, assisting with PD for principals to teach inclusion and instructional improvement with the goal of making sure every student is taught to the highest level of quality and rigor. It’s easier to teach to lower standards, especially if a teacher has a negative bias toward a student, culture of the school, etc. And it’s easier, in the story’s case, to handicap society rather than bring people up. So another take could be that the ones in power, like the Handicapper General, purposely keep others down in order to stay in power while Harrison wants to reward people based on their differences and lift others up. Granted done in a not great way.
I think most people don’t argue to be equal in the sense of “we are exactly the same, skills and all” but rather closer to, like mentioned, equal opportunity. As for the “getting rid of envy” in making people equal is skills, looks, etc. I agree that you can’t get rid of envy unless they invented an emotional handicap. In real like that’s more of an emotional/social learning that people need to go through. Earlier, I mentioned bringing people up, but even then that doesn’t mean making everyone a star athlete. Just give people the same access to even be in the running. Especially in education.
As for the publishing discussion that was brought up, I find a bit of an issue going from the discussion of “we’re not equal based on physical skills etc” and “lowest common denominator” to more marginalized people getting deals. Granted, that was quickly glossed over in the video, but the way it was said leads to thought that marginalized people weren’t getting deals in the first place BECAUSE they didn’t have the skills and now are only getting deals on an outcome based system. Obviously, a quota system is bad because that reduces someone to just one thing rather than take it into account as the entire person. And Affirmative Action isn’t a quota system, just because some universities implemented something incorrectly.
Your job is a fantastic thing and I'm sure you're much more eloquent in that area than I could possibly be. Apologies if we jumped around too much in our chats and I'm sure that can lead to us looking horrible or saying things inaccurately, particularly with poor comparisons. It's definitely important for bias minimization and we didn't mean to have implied a skill gap. If we glossed over it, I think that the subject would need its own video and need to be scripted to avoid being mishandled like it sounds like we have done. I obviously don't know the answers to the problems, I'd be a much more valuable person to the world if I did. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I didn't know that about your job title and find it fascinating.
It's no problem! Just something I'm passionate about as Ive previously worked for a literacy nonprofit and also higher education state agency and now in Pre-K to 12 area. I also know the downsides to non scripted nuanced discussions. I like hearing your guys' perspectives because you do so in, my opinion, a well meaning manner. Just adding to the discussion since I felt I had a different perspective! I'm always up for an open interesting discussion around education.
I live in the UK and the worst performers in schools are white working class boys, yet their needs and aspirations are neglected.
I would like to know if the same situation occurs in America
Thank you for this comment (I had a similar response) and CodeX Cantina for your willingness to listen and reflect. The publishing industry has historically been dominated by white people in positions of power. White people making decisions on what is printed and what isn’t. Even with the best of intentions, we are drawn to stories that reflect our experiences. Efforts to increase published BIPOC authors serves to balance an industry that was systematically unbalanced. As a teacher of student body that is representative of the diversity in the US, I am very grateful that my students are starting to see mirrors of themselves in the stories we read.
@@kyishabishop7596 We completely agree it’s important and talk about books as windows, doors, and mirrors.
Just found your channel. Love your analysis. I can't wait to watch some of your other videos.
Thanks so much! I hope we have improved since one of our earliest videos
Just watched it again for the 3rd time in 25 years....more relevant than ever
Very powerful story!
I think the amount of amendments was a look at how many it took to finally make everyone equal. That was my take anyhow
Love it
Now I’m really curious about the bird thing 🤔
One day it will become clear...
why does the guy in glasses remind me of Derek Shepherd from Grey's Anatomy jsksks
:D