I love mirrors. It’s the perfect expression of skill with a race, and I believe wholeheartedly anyone who doesn’t like or doesn’t play mirrors are just coping because they can’t blame the balance if they lose; they are just less skilled.
As a Zerg i love ZvZ Its actualy my highest win rate matchup. ONLY thing that i dont like about ZvZ Is that others hate it And they just leave or go for all in And then leave after that Fails.
I have never hated a matchup more than tvt. Tvt made me stop playing because I have the most fun with Terran as opposed to the other races, but getting a 50/50 between my opponent just leaving, and actually getting a game, then just trying to fight through tanks with ravens is miserable. And I’m terrible at it.
I love PvP, TvT can be boring, ZvZ is ok to watch but shit to play. So many all ins, so many dumb ways to die, no structure to the match up at all. Theres a reason people hate mirror matches, and it is often due to game design and not skill
Usually not a fan of mirror matchups since I have no clue whats going on. But It becomes fun to watch when you explain the small details and strategy and when the game goes further into higher tech units
What I like about mirror matchups is that, even if they're not as thematic, they really emphasize every move and all the skill that's involved. It's almost like a fast paced chess game. So yeah keep them coming!
Since other RTSs have been mentioned, I want to add another thing: starcrafts OST hits different and the dynamic is so good, when there's action, there is fast Ost, when it has cooled down, you got some more chilled out tracks
Kudos to Lowko, always explaining things to potential new viewers, trully the sign of a true professional. Been wstching for years but I also appreciate the reminder of the bases from time to time ❤
I've been playing SC2 for 13 years, it was the first PC game I ever played, I also would've lost at minute 5 lol. The skill displayed in these matches is just insane!
Some of that legibility might come from the thousands of games - I’m around 100 games in or so, and watch loads of casts/competitive SC2, and plenty of fights are impossible for me to judge. The biggest offender is any toss army with ground and air units - I can never figure out what’s going on in those, with carriers and collisi completely obscuring the ground forces
Personally the difference for me is spectacle & skill. The mix-race matchups feel they have a higher level of 'spectacle', whereas the mirror matchups feel more skill-intense... mirror matchups almost feel more PERSONAL for this reason, as it levels the playing field more completely, so the competition feels more intensely player focused. Like, you're not going to have anyone crying about "blah-blah race is OP" etc, because they didn't like the result in a Mirror matchup. But the only downside is theres a bit less spectacle involved, (the thumbnails suffer!!! hahaha!). Feel like it depends more on mood of the viewer, because we are always up for spectacle and skill, but only sometimes we want extra skill-focused stuff. I personally love both and fully support you doing both mirror and mixed matchups in the future! Cheers!
I'm thinking about what you said about new rts games and, tbh, how much of that strategic difference and legibility comes from the game being figured out and played for years
Personally, as an amateur Protoss player, my favorite matchups to watch are TvT and PvP in that order. Like one of my greatest memories of Lowko is watching him cast a battle between Disruptors, blink stalkers, and archons. And he just made the best sound effects every time the novas same close to detonating on everything. Mirrors are great. Another reason they might not be as popular is because people only watch videos of their race’s matchups
Mirror matches are often my favorite- mostly TvT and ZvZ. Both are really explosive and involve really complex army movements. Not to play mind you, just to watch Lowko cast.
What a game. I think mirror match vids would be viewed more by those who play that race. I watch all your videos that have a Zerg player to better my knowledge of how to play Zerg. I like your explanations as to the pros and cons to the 15 and 16 hatch start provide. I know the game quite well but still learn from your insights.
Honestly zerg is so well made, the spore buff against specificly mirror air, and vipers making the trade-off of making your own buildings more vulnerable for the sake of defencive spells, is design wise amazing. Plus this map, just imagining catching the opponents army when going over a bridge sandwiching them and throwing a cloud over them is amazing for a ZvZ on this map, the possibility alone. I do feel that the rocks on this map, you want to keep on your side of the map, but destroy on you opponents, if raynor did so that would have helped but hard to judge, certainly a thinker.
high level mirror matches are good, as are regular matches. i think official sc2 matches could benefit from a few subfactions for each of the three races (think c&c generals), but with only very slight variations in tech and units to make things more interesting in mirror matches.
Serral's only flaw this entire game was not splitting his vipers, but other than that just a patient game and taking the chances he got. Reynor's APM vs Serral's decision making.
Hey @Lowko. Not been watching many SCII lately, but the title made me click it if this helps? Two top tier players + incredible speed got my interest. I don't mind mirror match ups.
Generally I find mirror matchups to be less interesting since it usually ends up being the same unit comp on both sides. But when it's this high level it's still a good watch. I'll watch basically every Serral game.
He does get a bit shaken up, you can see it in live games and such in offline tournaments but he plays sooo well he can seperate it from his gameplay. Not quite as stoic as serral tho
I think one of the problem in mirror match ups is the game seldom go beyond initital stage. Like when one got an upperhand and kill 10 workers the opponents just GG out. Some of the game like this that go for 30mins is what we love to see
EZ solution for more development: Make Scion Races baseline and explain it as other Xel'naga creations/zerg offshoot/experimental Dominion protocol that got away from its handlers. Tournaments ban them until they're actually balanced (intern can do balance patches because the Balance Council is doing all the actual work of decision making anyway).
i've always wondered, is there a reason we never see zergs doing something similar to an extractor trick (using spores/spines) in the late game to squeeze out an extra 15-20 supply of army? since the main limiting resource is gas, spending that extra minerals to get additional units would be a good idea.
lowko i hate playing mirror matchups BUT, I like watching them for educational purposes so that one day I might enjoy playing them. Its also cool to see when 2 of the same race try to go tit for tat like stim vs stim, ling bane chess etc.
I won't say all mirrors are good, I understand that zerg mirrors are... super explosive... But usually I love the ones you pick, and tbh, in special this one, was amaizing, Good job!
Lowko, mirror matches are super cool _to watch_ I main protoss myself, so I can only speak for experience on one MMU, but from what I understand, zerg and Terran are also extremely toxic.
ZvZ is the only mirror matchup I get turned on for. The other mirrors are interesting, and require so much skill to win, but ZvZ is something else haha
While high-level SC2 is cool and all. I believe, and I think you'd agree with me, that there's A LOT of space for RTS in general to improve for casual gamers. I see that as the main space new RTS can move into.
See, Lowko, the thing is, you have been complaining about people not loving mirror matchups _to_ people, who actually do love them. After all, we are still here after the first 3 minutes, enjoying the hell out of this game!
Every once in a while I go back and play Starcraft 1 Remastered to mass my favorite unit: The Protoss Scout. And every time I am reminded of how much better it feels to actually play SC2 instead of SC1. Workers not auto-mining, pathing being so much worse, generally harder to control, not being able to multi-select production buildings.. man, SC2 is such a big QoL patch for SC1! Not related to the video, just putting it out there. ♥ .. also I enjoy Reynor's Protoss play a lot just sayin'.
The only mirror matchup I hate is TvT. It's like two turtles fighting each other. One making a very slight move forward, while the opponent making a slight move backward.
Thank you. But it’s not like you can do anything else which is so infuriating. It’s all in or just sit there and manoeuvre around your opponent until someone makes a mistake. It’s boring as
I'm definitely a fan of mirror matches. That's probably why I have played chess for 15 years at a minimum. I do think you are being a bit biased towards SC2. Yes, it is an amazing Rts and should be in everyone's top 3, but I personally think that AOE is much more complicated. That game not only has historic missions for its campaign, but its gameplay even resembles the strategies used in the midevil Age. No joke! Literal concepts that were used 700 years ago. Now, if they could only balance out that game as well as SC2 is you would see the pinnacle of Rts games.
There are mirrors and there are MIRRORS, this was even as hell, but Serral had the advantage not only because of his initiative, but I believe even better micro, (I may be wrong) his Corrosive Biles hit far better than Reynor's.
Haven't played latter in a long , long time... Let me tell ya.. lost my skill LOL. Went from 3900 MMR to 1900 MMR after replacement in league. It's been two years no play mind you. Did a TvT and got creamed by mass zealot lol. Mirror matches are a skill check, who's better at the race. Fun as heck!
I don't think enough is being said about how Serral only ever looked mortal in ZvZ, then Raynor and he ended up on the same team, then he elevated to God mode. Maybe it was because he got to play against the other best Zerg in the world regularly, or maybe he got to pick Raynor's brain, but the results are inarguable. Katowice was disgusting. Serral went 20-1, and the only map he lost was to the other other best Zerg in the world, Dark.
The problem with StarCraft is, that Blizzard made more money introducing the sparkling pony mount in Wow than all of the StarCraft 2 sales... so, the player base is just not there. And it's a shame, because it's an awesome RTS.
@lowko your videos are bangers, but can I suggest something? When casting Serral games can you call him a Finlander. Finisher just sounds way off and hurts my ears... Lol
1: Missed opportunity of the reverbed "nice" at 69 drones 2: I dont mind mirror matchups while its not a TvT. (TvT is just boring imo). 3: I like you enthusiasm seeing 2 zerg masters straining against each other.
ZvZ is unironically the best mirror match imo... PvP I'm not a fan of, it can be interesting but it can also be incredibly boring. TvT... I dislike for other reasons but it's interesting to watch.
I love mirrors. It’s the perfect expression of skill with a race, and I believe wholeheartedly anyone who doesn’t like or doesn’t play mirrors are just coping because they can’t blame the balance if they lose; they are just less skilled.
As a Zerg i love ZvZ Its actualy my highest win rate matchup. ONLY thing that i dont like about ZvZ Is that others hate it And they just leave or go for all in And then leave after that Fails.
@@lumicka6046 I would like ZvZ a lot more if there were less all-ins
i also absolutely enjoy mirrors, yet TvT is by far my most favourite one (i main Zerg if that matters)
I have never hated a matchup more than tvt. Tvt made me stop playing because I have the most fun with Terran as opposed to the other races, but getting a 50/50 between my opponent just leaving, and actually getting a game, then just trying to fight through tanks with ravens is miserable. And I’m terrible at it.
I love PvP, TvT can be boring, ZvZ is ok to watch but shit to play. So many all ins, so many dumb ways to die, no structure to the match up at all.
Theres a reason people hate mirror matches, and it is often due to game design and not skill
Usually not a fan of mirror matchups since I have no clue whats going on. But It becomes fun to watch when you explain the small details and strategy and when the game goes further into higher tech units
seeing the vipers abduct each other and be thrown around is something I didn't expect to be so funny to watch
What I like about mirror matchups is that, even if they're not as thematic, they really emphasize every move and all the skill that's involved. It's almost like a fast paced chess game. So yeah keep them coming!
Since other RTSs have been mentioned, I want to add another thing: starcrafts OST hits different and the dynamic is so good, when there's action, there is fast Ost, when it has cooled down, you got some more chilled out tracks
So I’m not going crazy! I’ve sworn this is a thing with the game having tracks start as the action is heating up.
Only 9 minutes in, and I gotta say, you're nailing the casting, going through every move out and detailing the little differences in strategy.
Keep these mirror matches coming! I think they’re great.
Finally we got a match that was won by a Zerg player after the latest balance changes. Love to see it ❤
I have a feeling I wouldn't be very good at competitive RTS since I casually manage to mis-click 30% of the time while editing an office document
When i hop in train everytime i have a game to watch ! Perfect 👌
What a delight of a match! And delightfully casted, too. Van harte bedankt, Lowko! (in my horrible dutch)
I enjoy every cast you do,
Thank you.
Kudos to Lowko, always explaining things to potential new viewers, trully the sign of a true professional. Been wstching for years but I also appreciate the reminder of the bases from time to time ❤
I enjoyed this mirror matchup especially thanks to Lowkos explanations, as I would have missed many of the nuances of their strategies and execution
I've been playing SC2 for 13 years, it was the first PC game I ever played, I also would've lost at minute 5 lol. The skill displayed in these matches is just insane!
Some of that legibility might come from the thousands of games - I’m around 100 games in or so, and watch loads of casts/competitive SC2, and plenty of fights are impossible for me to judge. The biggest offender is any toss army with ground and air units - I can never figure out what’s going on in those, with carriers and collisi completely obscuring the ground forces
Incredible game, so fun to watch, love all the detailed strategy commentary. That was EPIC
Personally the difference for me is spectacle & skill. The mix-race matchups feel they have a higher level of 'spectacle', whereas the mirror matchups feel more skill-intense... mirror matchups almost feel more PERSONAL for this reason, as it levels the playing field more completely, so the competition feels more intensely player focused. Like, you're not going to have anyone crying about "blah-blah race is OP" etc, because they didn't like the result in a Mirror matchup. But the only downside is theres a bit less spectacle involved, (the thumbnails suffer!!! hahaha!). Feel like it depends more on mood of the viewer, because we are always up for spectacle and skill, but only sometimes we want extra skill-focused stuff. I personally love both and fully support you doing both mirror and mixed matchups in the future! Cheers!
Great work explaining the matchup. I watch sc2 just from time to time, so thanks to you I got an idea what is going on :)
I like mirror matchups. zvz looks super hard, make a single mistake in the early game and ur dead.
Really great match to see as we rarely see Serral vs Reynor ZvZ anymore with Reynor prefering PvZ
This series is as amazing! Loved seeing it. Maybe a Maru vs Clem whenever that happens next?!
I'm thinking about what you said about new rts games and, tbh, how much of that strategic difference and legibility comes from the game being figured out and played for years
Personally, as an amateur Protoss player, my favorite matchups to watch are TvT and PvP in that order. Like one of my greatest memories of Lowko is watching him cast a battle between Disruptors, blink stalkers, and archons. And he just made the best sound effects every time the novas same close to detonating on everything. Mirrors are great. Another reason they might not be as popular is because people only watch videos of their race’s matchups
I was totally excited for this mirror matchup and was not disappointed
Thanks Lowko! I do enjoy mirror match ups. As with everything, balance is good!
Amazing game!!! Always a delight to see la creme de la creme against each other. Keep'em coming!
Mirror matches are often my favorite- mostly TvT and ZvZ. Both are really explosive and involve really complex army movements. Not to play mind you, just to watch Lowko cast.
0:28 how did serral set the drone to go to some random location and not a mineral field ?
What a game. I think mirror match vids would be viewed more by those who play that race. I watch all your videos that have a Zerg player to better my knowledge of how to play Zerg. I like your explanations as to the pros and cons to the 15 and 16 hatch start provide. I know the game quite well but still learn from your insights.
that thank you at the end was cool
Most entertaining zvz I recall seeing in a long time!
keep up the good work lowko great casting
Fun game to watch for sure. Like he mirror games sometimes.
Honestly zerg is so well made, the spore buff against specificly mirror air, and vipers making the trade-off of making your own buildings more vulnerable for the sake of defencive spells, is design wise amazing.
Plus this map, just imagining catching the opponents army when going over a bridge sandwiching them and throwing a cloud over them is amazing for a ZvZ on this map, the possibility alone.
I do feel that the rocks on this map, you want to keep on your side of the map, but destroy on you opponents, if raynor did so that would have helped but hard to judge, certainly a thinker.
high level mirror matches are good, as are regular matches.
i think official sc2 matches could benefit from a few subfactions for each of the three races (think c&c generals), but with only very slight variations in tech and units to make things more interesting in mirror matches.
Serral's only flaw this entire game was not splitting his vipers, but other than that just a patient game and taking the chances he got. Reynor's APM vs Serral's decision making.
hey lowko have you by any chance tried beyond all reason? its also an rts free to play and imo really good too
I like the mirror matches, much more like a chess game than rock paper scissors. Post more if you can
thanks for casting the mirror matches to the "few" that watch it!
Zerg Mirror Match-Up never dissappoint Lowko. I clicked on zerg mirror match up doubly fast than any others
I think that as a dedicated community we deserve a photo of Lowko with gelled up hair.
I've noticed that in ZvZ the creep spread is very moderate in comparison to fror example ZvT. I wonder why is that?
Hey @Lowko. Not been watching many SCII lately, but the title made me click it if this helps? Two top tier players + incredible speed got my interest.
I don't mind mirror match ups.
Generally I find mirror matchups to be less interesting since it usually ends up being the same unit comp on both sides. But when it's this high level it's still a good watch. I'll watch basically every Serral game.
Serral seems like he never gets shaken up and stays calm
He does get a bit shaken up, you can see it in live games and such in offline tournaments but he plays sooo well he can seperate it from his gameplay. Not quite as stoic as serral tho
Lowko,
Are you maybe from Utrecht?
God damn it I love ZvZ!
I think one of the problem in mirror match ups is the game seldom go beyond initital stage. Like when one got an upperhand and kill 10 workers the opponents just GG out. Some of the game like this that go for 30mins is what we love to see
EZ solution for more development: Make Scion Races baseline and explain it as other Xel'naga creations/zerg offshoot/experimental Dominion protocol that got away from its handlers. Tournaments ban them until they're actually balanced (intern can do balance patches because the Balance Council is doing all the actual work of decision making anyway).
i've always wondered, is there a reason we never see zergs doing something similar to an extractor trick (using spores/spines) in the late game to squeeze out an extra 15-20 supply of army? since the main limiting resource is gas, spending that extra minerals to get additional units would be a good idea.
lowko i hate playing mirror matchups BUT, I like watching them for educational purposes so that one day I might enjoy playing them. Its also cool to see when 2 of the same race try to go tit for tat like stim vs stim, ling bane chess etc.
I won't say all mirrors are good, I understand that zerg mirrors are... super explosive... But usually I love the ones you pick, and tbh, in special this one, was amaizing, Good job!
That was a very entertaining game to watch
I think the mirror matches are great!
I love zvz so thank you for the upload Mr lowko ❤
La paciencia del Serral lo ayudó un montón
Such a good game!
Lowko, mirror matches are super cool _to watch_ I main protoss myself, so I can only speak for experience on one MMU, but from what I understand, zerg and Terran are also extremely toxic.
ZvZ is the only mirror matchup I get turned on for. The other mirrors are interesting, and require so much skill to win, but ZvZ is something else haha
While high-level SC2 is cool and all. I believe, and I think you'd agree with me, that there's A LOT of space for RTS in general to improve for casual gamers. I see that as the main space new RTS can move into.
Sick game.
TvT is actualy ma favorit matchup ( i know its not TvT ) I love mirrors they bring so much out of the players
ZvZ is one of the most balanced but also one of the matching that can just end in one fight.
adding to the "I love mirror matches" crowd
Reynor vs Serral ist the best Match up there is !
See, Lowko, the thing is, you have been complaining about people not loving mirror matchups _to_ people, who actually do love them. After all, we are still here after the first 3 minutes, enjoying the hell out of this game!
great game!
Every once in a while I go back and play Starcraft 1 Remastered to mass my favorite unit: The Protoss Scout. And every time I am reminded of how much better it feels to actually play SC2 instead of SC1. Workers not auto-mining, pathing being so much worse, generally harder to control, not being able to multi-select production buildings.. man, SC2 is such a big QoL patch for SC1! Not related to the video, just putting it out there. ♥
.. also I enjoy Reynor's Protoss play a lot just sayin'.
This match was phenomenal. What stuns me is that the loser would have slaughtered lesser Zerg with one hand tied to his back.
Some fast Zerg boys!
The only mirror matchup I hate is TvT. It's like two turtles fighting each other. One making a very slight move forward, while the opponent making a slight move backward.
Thank you. But it’s not like you can do anything else which is so infuriating. It’s all in or just sit there and manoeuvre around your opponent until someone makes a mistake. It’s boring as
I'm definitely a fan of mirror matches. That's probably why I have played chess for 15 years at a minimum. I do think you are being a bit biased towards SC2. Yes, it is an amazing Rts and should be in everyone's top 3, but I personally think that AOE is much more complicated. That game not only has historic missions for its campaign, but its gameplay even resembles the strategies used in the midevil Age. No joke! Literal concepts that were used 700 years ago. Now, if they could only balance out that game as well as SC2 is you would see the pinnacle of Rts games.
There are mirrors and there are MIRRORS, this was even as hell, but Serral had the advantage not only because of his initiative, but I believe even better micro, (I may be wrong) his Corrosive Biles hit far better than Reynor's.
Wow at my level even getting to roaches is an achievement
Haven't played latter in a long , long time... Let me tell ya.. lost my skill LOL. Went from 3900 MMR to 1900 MMR after replacement in league. It's been two years no play mind you.
Did a TvT and got creamed by mass zealot lol. Mirror matches are a skill check, who's better at the race. Fun as heck!
POGGERS ZVZ!
ZvZ = No
Serral vs Reynor = YES!
Nice one.
I don't think enough is being said about how Serral only ever looked mortal in ZvZ, then Raynor and he ended up on the same team, then he elevated to God mode. Maybe it was because he got to play against the other best Zerg in the world regularly, or maybe he got to pick Raynor's brain, but the results are inarguable. Katowice was disgusting. Serral went 20-1, and the only map he lost was to the other other best Zerg in the world, Dark.
ZvZ is my favorite match up to play!!
your hair was badass lowko, i think so
The problem with StarCraft is, that Blizzard made more money introducing the sparkling pony mount in Wow than all of the StarCraft 2 sales... so, the player base is just not there. And it's a shame, because it's an awesome RTS.
No matter who wins, i win! my two favorite zergs!
@lowko your videos are bangers, but can I suggest something? When casting Serral games can you call him a Finlander. Finisher just sounds way off and hurts my ears... Lol
1: Missed opportunity of the reverbed "nice" at 69 drones
2: I dont mind mirror matchups while its not a TvT. (TvT is just boring imo).
3: I like you enthusiasm seeing 2 zerg masters straining against each other.
with how Microsoft has handled Halo so far, I wouldn't count on them reviving development of Starcraft
I love watching mirror matches. I dont like playing them 😅
Commenting on the mirror match dynamic. I play Z so ZvZ at a high level is pretty interesting to me. PvP and TvT are not so interesting personally.
I don't normally watch ZvZ, but when I do, I still don't.
more mirror matches!
Mirror matchups aren't so bad as long as its not TvT
ZvZ: Serral's revenge
I'm a simple girl. Lowko posts a SC2 video I watch.
im exited
Sorry to say, based on how they gutted the company, I don't think Microsoft has much interest in developing Starcraft anytime soon.
ZvZ is unironically the best mirror match imo... PvP I'm not a fan of, it can be interesting but it can also be incredibly boring. TvT... I dislike for other reasons but it's interesting to watch.
Honestly, doubt microsoft would push RTS games with the 2k fired employee at Activision/Blizzard XD
People probably don't watch mirror matchups cos they can't complain about balance
Serral, Clem, MaxPax - World Top 3?