Something you'll never forget about these 91's is that oh-so-distinctive cooling fan sound on start-up or in service. Sounds like something from MS Gundam.
Unfortunately it was worse than that, to force through and justify privatisation of the railways, the government at the time ensured BR kept failing and underfunded it to make the case for private ownership and convince the public to want privitisation. Now look at the utter disconnected mess of foreign ownership we have, and all profits extracted out to other countries' own railway networks...
As epitomised in Macmillan's comments to the the House of Commons on 10th March 1960 as quoted in the Beeching's "The Reshaping of British Railways": First the industry must be of a size and pattern suited to modern conditions and prospects. In particular, the railway system must be remodelled to meet current needs and the modernisation plan must be adapted to this new shape. Mind you, Churchill, as President of the Board of Trade, said roughly the same thing in 1909 when he said the railways didn't have a future without rationalisation and amalgamations. That was one of his better statements.
Indeed. Anyone shocked by the axing of HS2 hasn't looked back into rail history very far. With the APT - do 90% of the design work and then cancel the project and sell the technology to other countries. With HS2 - spend 90% of the money but ensure that the project as delivered provides no benefits whatsoever.
@@Dedubya- 👍 Very good comment, same in my country New Zealand. Our useless government politicians, have sold large amounts of land, and other assets to China 🇨🇳. For reasons no one understands, except them !!..
@@TheFrogfather1 I agree in general regarding the APT although only parts of the BR tech was sold to Fiat to improve on their existing tilting train tech. Regarding HS2 stopping at Birmingham, this means it is a total white elephant imo although isn't it `only' £ 35 Billion that will have been spent instead of £ 100 Billion for the full route? Not sure if £ 100 Billion included the branch to Leeds that has since been axed. The PM has ensured that HS2 is a white elephant by halving tax on domestic flights (cheekily, on the eve of the Cop26 climate summit in Glasgow).
Something that hasn't been mentioned much about the revolutionary layout of the Class 91 powercars is that most of their revolutionary features (frame mounted traction motors, underslung transformers, etc) were carried over from the mid-train powercars of the APT-P. Otherwise, excellent video for one of my favourite UK trains!
I think the IC225 is the APT-S (Advanced Passenger Train Service) as they look similar to the APT and were originally designed to tilt, they have a similar profile but with a single power car at one end of the train & 2 conventional bogies on the coaches. Saw the preserved 91 at Crewe Heritage Centre & a Transport for Wales Class 67 / Mk4 train passed through Crewe during my visit to the heritage centre.
@@danielsellers8707 I haven't been able to find out whether the ASEA motors in the APT central power cars were AC induction type or DC machines with brushes like the GEC motors used in the Class 91. As you know the APT was very powerful, the two central power cars producing 8000 BHP total.
Imagine if the government had invested in rail development in the 1980s - so many excellent designs like this one could have become world leaders - and exporters… another superb video, thank you so much for sharing! 😊
I agree, the possibilities were there. Just one example - imagine an OHL or diesel-powered version of the Class 442, which could have easily taken over routes such as the Midland Main Line, the Waterloo-Exeter or London-Norwich routes. They could have also taken the best parts of the Class 87 (which worked really well) as the basis for a 2nd Generation electric locomotive - and wouldn't it have been the most delicious irony if they HAD gone ahead with an electric HST, considering it was developed, in part, due to delays in the original APT project.
Utopian dreams. I can pretty much guarantee no one would be buying our trains private or public. Our car industry was nationalised, it was horrific and even ruined successful names like Jaguar. So I wouldn't fall for the socialist bullshit
Sad to see HST 125 leaving service. Shame the 225 never got to serve at it's design speed, striking train in that Intercity Livery with the graphics matching the slope of the cab.
Class 91s are still used on routes other than London, Newcastle and Leeds. They are a regular visitor up the former Midland Railway lines to Bradford and Skipton
Involved in two accidents in all those years of service, and nether of the two actually being the trains fault. I will forever be impressed by this lady of the line, being as I drove 91's and 43's for 17 years before retirement. I live right by the ECML and remember hearing both trains whine and thunder their way down the line. Sad it is now mostly Asumas. I remember all the problems with that as well, but people are quick to forget that. Your content is brilliant, you have given me so many golden memories.
I loved watching this video, even more so than your others, as the Electra is probably my favourite train on the network. I remember in 1991 being on one for the first time, heading home from Newcastle, and being amazed by the fact they had a phone on them (we spent a small fortune, for us, on phone cards and calling our friends). Commuting into Leeds, I'd always wait for one instead of catching an earlier Northern train. Plus, I still get excited hearing one start-up.
What absolutely shocked me was just how loud they were the first time I saw on at Newcastle Central but yeah, apart from that - I think I was thinking the electric swish of the doors on the Enterprise if I'm being honest - they really did seem "the future" and I loved them in LNER livery. To cut a long story short though, the best train I ever saw, ever, ever, was at Leeds, they leased some Class-373's for peak time services between Leeds and LKX c. 2002 and WOW they looked A-MA-ZING. Only thing I've ever see that looks as good, maligned as they are, are GWR Class-800s.
Wow, an outstanding documentary about the ironic class 91's. That would be a dream sight to have the class 91 top and tailing with a HST. I watched a old documentary when during some of the heavy snow fall in late 80's into early 90's, the class 91's had to be replaced with class 47 haulage.
Will miss these old monsters when they're gone, first one built less than I fortnight after I was born. Got many, many memories of these, even got invited into the cab of a 91 as a kid, way - way back at Kings Cross.
Thanks for this great summary which points up much of how we have got to where we are with Britain's railway. All I can say is, what an utter mess Govt underfunding and privatisation has made of our railways. All for ideology!
I saw the preserved 91120 at Crewe Heritage Centre yesterday; it looks better than new! I think the InterCity 225 was the APT-S (Advanced Passenger Train Service) as they have a similar design to the APT but with a single power car at one end of the train, similar profiled coaches but with 2 conventional bogies and plug doors as on the APT. Saw a Transport for Wales Mk4 train set passing through Crewe during my visit to the heritage centre, with a Class 67 diesel.
I remember seeing a few of those! June 10, 2023. I was with my family in England and we decided on that day to visit York, partially to see the rail museum and partially to relax in a park or by the river in a much less frantic atmosphere than London. On our way up and in the station I saw some 91s in their current LNER livery looking rather worn. Glad to have seen them in their final days of operation, though it was a bit interesting that our trip between King’s Cross and York and back was done in their successor, the 801.
I sometimes see these engines making north and southbound trips whilst making my journey to and from my college. These include Skyfall, after the James Bond film, the units decorated in the special liveries for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and Rememberance Day, Flying Scotsman, Sir Bobby Robson, Durham Cathedral and Lord Mayor of Newcastle.
The biggest thing about the 91 is that it's much easier to go travelling with a bicycles thus be able to promote active travel, that the Class 800 struggle to even hold a bicycle.
@@TheCatOfWarCSGO I only said DVT's, I didn't state which ones. At the time of print in 2019 the three priority fleets were Hitachi GWR, Hitachi LNER and Siemens fleets for the North Western Region. It was a short term filler which they also did with Class 43 services which were used on the South West stopping services where they were needed as the DMU stock was outdated. Now the South West have 180's fully assigned with the odd 158 and 150 service restricted to branch line runs.
yay, my favourite train :) class 91's and 225 sets are the best, I love there looks and sounds and have very fond memories of travelling on them when back in 2018 I travelled in the cab from London :) cheers for the video mate very well illustrated, keep up the good work
Lovely video on the Class 91! I really admire the work you do on these documentaries, they're so well written and presented. Thank you for all that you do!
Great memories of the 7am York-KXX GNER 1st Class service of 20 years ago. Full Yorkshire Grill on the way down followed by 3 course Silver Service dinner on the 5pm return journey. Had my own car parking space next to Platform 1 courtesy of Albert. It only cost me a bottle of whisky for him and a bottle of advocaat for his wife every Christmas. #goodolddays
The Mark 4 DVT were TOPS coded NZA (Driving Luggage Van with airbrakes) and were to diagram NZ502. They were numbered 82200 to 82231. Also in the 82xxx numbering series were the Mark3B DVT 9numbers 82101 to 82152. As any British rail enthusiast could tell you when it comes to locomotive-hauled coaching stock the number just identifies the vehicle and its type (First Class passenger coach, Gangwayed Brake, Genersl Untility Van, etc) and not its TOPS class, which is given by an alpha-numeric code, for example GK1G which is a HST Trailer Buffet First (G indicates a HST vehicle, K identifies it as a Buffet car, the 1 indicates that it carries First Class passengers and the final G indicates that it is of Mark 3 construction.
Electra class 91s are the ones that are the most dominant high speed trains of the east coast mainline and now as of today some of them are now off to scrapping
very nice im not a train buff but have to say when i was heading to liverpool at crewe i saw this class 91 and i think that apt train and 125 intercity,i wished i tooked a pic now
I do remember those trains and how they were built to operate on the East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line and Great Eastern Main Line. At least LNER have kept some of the Class 91 Mk4 Intercity 225 for some time.
I was surprised to find out how narrow these sets are being roughly 2.8m while most HST are 2.9m+ to 3.4m wide. Crazy legacy loading gauges. Fair enough only the TGV derivatives and BR made trains runs high speed lines in the UK
My memories of this electric HST express; my nanna/grandmother owned a hotel when I was a child, the private part had a balcony and as the ECML was quite near to the hotel, I could watch the trains whizzing past sitting, standing on said balcony, a mixture of electric commuter trains, HST diesel, and electric HST trains and the odd freight train. Several years later my dad said that we were to go on holiday in the city of York, and instead of “usually” going in his car, we were going to catch the HST to York station for a change, we went to our local station [Gordon Hill] and caught the class 313 electric commuter train to Finsbury Park station where we got off and caught a main line commuter train to Kings cross (end terminus) station, where we got off [train had terminated] and went & looked at the departure board for the platform, train and time it will leave. We went to the correct platform and an electric HST was sitting there with its doors open (like the one featured in this video) and we got on it, in second class; it was quiet inside the carriage and it had climate control ~ the windows were sealed/not openable, our luggage went on a rack above us and we sat at a table “that we could put things & our lunch on it”, not as luxurious as “first class” = each set of seats had a table aligned in the middle of each window, the table also had a (reading) lamp on it and the windows had curtains that you could close for privacy at night/being blinded by the sun [the train/railway being at a particular angle to it] and the “quiet” rule for passengers. At the start of the journey a female staff member went down the carriage with a trolley of cold/hot drinks/snacks and mum & dad bought tea/coffee from her, when it was time for lunch we had the weird sensation of walking through a moving train, having to walk past all the other passengers in the second class carriages 😳, and operate the vestibule doors at the end of each carriage (part of the quiet experience) to the buffet car where we bought our lunch and went back to our carriage with it and located where the toilets were [I had the experience of using the toilet on that train]. Eventually the train pulled into York station and we got off it and I said “how interesting it was to experience being on an express HST”. ***** at the end of our holiday we went to York station and waited for our HST express to take us back to Kings cross station, as the HST pulled in I recognised it and said to dad “it’s a diesel!”, the only difference with this was [being older] it had “slam doors” with a sliding window in them, the inside was similar to its more modern electric counterpart we were on at the start of our holiday. I can’t remember if the HST express stopped at Stevenage station and we directly got our local train to Gordon Hill. A rememberable experience of riding on these (now withdrawn ☹️) trains, my dad is a “petrol” head and loves fast/sports cars. And has an interest in public transport, but prefers the car when on holiday.
Excellent analysis as always - this is a great channel. Well researched; well presented; factual and entertaining. This trainset was, in my opinion, one of the most attractive ever run on the network.
Beautiful, elegant locomotive and the blunt end looks aerodynamic against the passenger coach it's couple to, which wouldn't have been the case for the Class 89. And those chime horns ! Very capable locos that were held back from regular service at 140 mph which could have been used when the train was late at least (as on HS1). From an enthusiast point of view they just sound like a hoover but on the footplate the traction motors can be heard from above about 30 mph (there are footplate videos here on YT such as `Class 91 Cab Ride - London KX - Stevenage (Part1)'. There is something to be said for the Class 43 replacing the DVT permanently but with a standby lightweight 1000 HP Diesel engine installed so that, in the event of Class 91 failure, the train could complete it's journey at a slower speed. I hope they are sold overseas rather than scrapped but of course will need re-gearing if for freight use.
It reminds me of my beloved IR4 (derived from the danish ic3) except that its reliability got better after a noise filter was fitted. ABB scandia in Randers could have build more if Nyrup eletrified every central inter city route before the great belt bridge.
I'm fairly baised to the Class 390 as I grew up seeing and using them 24/7 being next to Trent Valley, the 91 has really grew on me I think its one of the better trains on the network now. Shame central wasnt able to get their service on the WCML during the COVID situation
From the looks of it these locos are very stubborn as any attempt to get them off the ECML has failed also having them on heavy freight would be feasible, even if they are magically bounded to the ecml because these are some absolute UNITS with more hp then a lot of American diesels which if you account in them being British loading gauge is insane
I thought you were kidding but you are 100% right. Most big American diesels have somwhere around 4000 horsepower. The 91s have 6480. That's insane. Amazing locomotives
As a card-carrying member of the 225 Group, I can definitively say that this video was well worth the wait. By way of topics for future videos, may I suggest the SBB-CFF-FFS Re 460 of Switzerland and the EMD AEM-7 of America by way of Sweden?
The thumbnail photo and the first shot in the video do not show a Class 91 locomotive but the "Driving Van Trailer" that is on the other end of the train. You can tell because there is no pantograph.
Yet another highly interesting and enjoyable documentary; what a lot of Likes!! Well-deserved! Ruairidh I'm aware I might sound patronising I don't want to be just to give encouragement where encouragement is due 😊
never got to see a 91 sadly living in South Wales but they were the poster boys of British passenger services when i was little. would like to also suggest a Class 58 video
I don't know where that "expense of rebuilding King's Cross station to accomodate overhead wires" myth comes from, but it is nonsense. The electrification (which eventually happened in the mid 70s) required no structural alterations to the station yet that myth still persists... Apart from that I really enjoyed this clip especially those early test shots of the 91s. The current "retro" LNER harks back to those early days of the Mk4s and looks splendid. I will be sad when the do eventually go, not just because they are far more comfortable and refined trains to travel in than those 800/IET units. We've definitely gone backwards in that sense.
It does not make sense does it? Especially as during the modernisation of the WCML, they completely rebuilt Euston, which was reportedly an attractive structure in the 1950s. Kings Cross does not & never did look grand on the scale of St Pancras.
@@TheRip72 They completely rebuilt Euston AND Birmingham New St (complete disaster in design!) along with a number of the more minor stations such as Stafford, Northampton, Coventry etc. I cannot imagine what the expense of all that must have been...but it got done! By contrast very little was changed on the ECML beyond raising bridges where required and track realignment for higher speeds where possible. And the electrification its self was done as cheaply as possible too. It was a cheap job compared to the WCML job of 20 years prior.
Cheap and nasty, some might say. The OLE standard designs have changed a bit since then - although it might gone too far, if you consider the GW main line! While they have upgraded some of the power supply on parts of the ECML, there are still restrictions as to how many services can be operated electrically on some sections for the time being.@@soundseeker63
I never understood why the nose of the DVT wasn’t built to be identical to the 91. It’s very similar, obviously, but not exactly the same, and not as well resolved. It seems narrower, the angle of the windscreen doesn’t seem quite right, there are flaps underneath the windscreen and why are the horns not behind the actual horn grille? Was Metro-Cammell just not able to duplicate the loco nose properly?
If you would like to get up and close to a class 91, then come and see our one in the museum of Scottish railways at the Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway, in Bo’ness Scotland 🏴 there’s a trailer car too but isn’t on public view (owned by a private company).
I don't know, but Class 91 is my fav British loco, and one of my all-time favorites. That's just something almost untrain-like about it that makes me such a fanboy.
PS. Did anyone else notice the briefest of brief glimpses of the Class 141/142 Pacer in there when there was a train pulling into a station that could well have been York?
A few minor corrections. You said the IC125 was introduced in 1977. This is incorrect. On the Western, they entered service in 1976. On the East Coast in 1978. And on the Midland Mainline in 1982. The 140 top speed was thought achievable by BR using flashing green signals to signify two signal sections at green, or 5 aspect signalling with 4 signal sections before a red. However, the HMRI would not approve its use, saying that speeds over 125 mph would require in cab signalling as they felt drivers could not observe signals at the 140 mph speed. Many railway operators preferred the Class 89 to the Class 91, which was favoured by the track engineers who prefer 4 axle locos.
Alas it is such a sad day when one realises he/she will NEVER witness an intercity 225 working ‘slab end first’…. One bit of trivia, I read that if the formation that struck the car and trailer had been operating with the DVT at the rear, it would have had a lot more weight at the front and may not have derailed causing many fewer casualties…
For those who don't know the difference between the Class 90 and the Class 91, the Class 90 is an Electric Locomotive, and the Class 91 is an EMU (Electrical Multiple Unit)
With the odd arrangement caused by the delay in introducing The MK IV Stock and DVT's between The Class 43 and 91 at either end of a rake of MK III's generated a staggering 8550hp on tap.
i remember quite clearly in the late eighties and im sure in 84 with hst 125 london to wakefield was 1 hr50 mins and leeds just over 2hrs did it many times now its 2 and half with the hitachi anyone know why we have gone backwards like concord
17:27 The underlying cause of the Hatfield crash was the failure of the privatisation contracts. The risks of weak privatisation performance based contracts were pointed out by unions and managers prior to privatisation but knowingly ignored. The politicians and the lawyers who wrote the contracts were the root cause. They as well as the contractor should have been prosecuted under Section 2 of HSWA.
*UPDATE ON THE EURO PHEONIX 91s* 91120 is currently on display at Crewe Heritage Centre and very recently has been repainted into Intercity Swallow.The other 91, 91117 is currently located at Barrow Hill and is intented to be a temporary spares donor for 89001 "Avocet"
This essay nicely answers my question as to why Britain's high tech, heavy industry has collapsed. The sheer and utter imbecilic decision making process and the obsession with "might-be"'s is both sad and frustrating. To think of all the wasted opportunities because so many "important people" have a stake.
YEEEEES! Another vid from this channel whose i name i never say out loud but i like every video.
Same!
Rory McVay is how i pronounce it.
/rori makvεi/
It’s rory - not hard
It is pronounced Roo-ree according to the Scottish Ruairidh and Irish Ruaridh I know. Rory is the English equivalent (Ro-Ray)
😂
Something you'll never forget about these 91's is that oh-so-distinctive cooling fan sound on start-up or in service. Sounds like something from MS Gundam.
This may be heard in my video at 91127 visits Darlington 18.26, 19 June 2018
Has a hint of Vulcan howl about it
honestly it really does in a way @@simonn2045
The british government always aims low when it comes to transport.
Aims low and misses.
Unfortunately it was worse than that, to force through and justify privatisation of the railways, the government at the time ensured BR kept failing and underfunded it to make the case for private ownership and convince the public to want privitisation. Now look at the utter disconnected mess of foreign ownership we have, and all profits extracted out to other countries' own railway networks...
As epitomised in Macmillan's comments to the the House of Commons on 10th March 1960 as quoted in the Beeching's "The Reshaping of British Railways": First the industry must be of a size and pattern suited to modern conditions and prospects. In particular, the railway system must be remodelled to meet current needs and the modernisation plan must be adapted to this new shape.
Mind you, Churchill, as President of the Board of Trade, said roughly the same thing in 1909 when he said the railways didn't have a future without rationalisation and amalgamations. That was one of his better statements.
Indeed. Anyone shocked by the axing of HS2 hasn't looked back into rail history very far. With the APT - do 90% of the design work and then cancel the project and sell the technology to other countries. With HS2 - spend 90% of the money but ensure that the project as delivered provides no benefits whatsoever.
@@Dedubya- 👍 Very good comment, same in my country New Zealand. Our useless government politicians, have sold large amounts of land, and other assets to China 🇨🇳. For reasons no one understands, except them !!..
@@TheFrogfather1 I agree in general regarding the APT although only parts of the BR tech was sold to Fiat to improve on their existing tilting train tech.
Regarding HS2 stopping at Birmingham, this means it is a total white elephant imo although isn't it `only' £ 35 Billion that will have been spent instead of £ 100 Billion for the full route? Not sure if £ 100 Billion included the branch to Leeds that has since been axed.
The PM has ensured that HS2 is a white elephant by halving tax on domestic flights (cheekily, on the eve of the Cop26 climate summit in Glasgow).
Something that hasn't been mentioned much about the revolutionary layout of the Class 91 powercars is that most of their revolutionary features (frame mounted traction motors, underslung transformers, etc) were carried over from the mid-train powercars of the APT-P. Otherwise, excellent video for one of my favourite UK trains!
I think the IC225 is the APT-S (Advanced Passenger Train Service) as they look similar to the APT and were originally designed to tilt, they have a similar profile but with a single power car at one end of the train & 2 conventional bogies on the coaches. Saw the preserved 91 at Crewe Heritage Centre & a Transport for Wales Class 67 / Mk4 train passed through Crewe during my visit to the heritage centre.
@@danielsellers8707 I haven't been able to find out whether the ASEA motors in the APT central power cars were AC induction type or DC machines with brushes like the GEC motors used in the Class 91. As you know the APT was very powerful, the two central power cars producing 8000 BHP total.
Another fine example of what could have been if governments were not so anti-railways (and pro-profiteering!).
Imagine if the government had invested in rail development in the 1980s - so many excellent designs like this one could have become world leaders - and exporters… another superb video, thank you so much for sharing! 😊
I agree, the possibilities were there.
Just one example - imagine an OHL or diesel-powered version of the Class 442, which could have easily taken over routes such as the Midland Main Line, the Waterloo-Exeter or London-Norwich routes. They could have also taken the best parts of the Class 87 (which worked really well) as the basis for a 2nd Generation electric locomotive - and wouldn't it have been the most delicious irony if they HAD gone ahead with an electric HST, considering it was developed, in part, due to delays in the original APT project.
Utopian dreams. I can pretty much guarantee no one would be buying our trains private or public. Our car industry was nationalised, it was horrific and even ruined successful names like Jaguar. So I wouldn't fall for the socialist bullshit
Sad to see HST 125 leaving service.
Shame the 225 never got to serve at it's design speed, striking train in that Intercity Livery with the graphics matching the slope of the cab.
Brilliant. One of the missing BR classes I’ve been waiting for! Eagerly waiting a class 47 episode!!!!
The DVTs were never known as a Class 82! It was numbered as a Non Passenger Coaching Stock.
Fantastic film of one of my favourite locomotives.
They looked really Smart in GNER blue. Another great video
@5:55 I love the guy just looking at the guy using a welder with no eye protection. Very healthy and safe!
For an electric locomotive, their start up sounds quite spectacular with all the cooling fans kicking in. Great video!! 👍
Class 91s are still used on routes other than London, Newcastle and Leeds.
They are a regular visitor up the former Midland Railway lines to Bradford and Skipton
They only go as far as York/ Skipton/ Bradford Forster square and Leeds.. not newcastle due to the expenses of train crew training
Involved in two accidents in all those years of service, and nether of the two actually being the trains fault. I will forever be impressed by this lady of the line, being as I drove 91's and 43's for 17 years before retirement. I live right by the ECML and remember hearing both trains whine and thunder their way down the line. Sad it is now mostly Asumas. I remember all the problems with that as well, but people are quick to forget that. Your content is brilliant, you have given me so many golden memories.
Loved my journeys with these units. Always a pleasure travelling on them
I really miss these amazing trains so comfortable and you can't beat that Electra roar!
Ah bringing back happy memories of my student jaunts up and down with East Coast and their free trips if you travelled enough. Good times
These were the stuff of dreams for ‘90s kids looking through the Hornby catalogue
I loved watching this video, even more so than your others, as the Electra is probably my favourite train on the network. I remember in 1991 being on one for the first time, heading home from Newcastle, and being amazed by the fact they had a phone on them (we spent a small fortune, for us, on phone cards and calling our friends). Commuting into Leeds, I'd always wait for one instead of catching an earlier Northern train. Plus, I still get excited hearing one start-up.
What absolutely shocked me was just how loud they were the first time I saw on at Newcastle Central but yeah, apart from that - I think I was thinking the electric swish of the doors on the Enterprise if I'm being honest - they really did seem "the future" and I loved them in LNER livery.
To cut a long story short though, the best train I ever saw, ever, ever, was at Leeds, they leased some Class-373's for peak time services between Leeds and LKX c. 2002 and WOW they looked A-MA-ZING.
Only thing I've ever see that looks as good, maligned as they are, are GWR Class-800s.
Great another br tribute let's go back to br😢
Great edvert for British engineering
Wow, an outstanding documentary about the ironic class 91's. That would be a dream sight to have the class 91 top and tailing with a HST.
I watched a old documentary when during some of the heavy snow fall in late 80's into early 90's, the class 91's had to be replaced with class 47 haulage.
Will miss these old monsters when they're gone, first one built less than I fortnight after I was born. Got many, many memories of these, even got invited into the cab of a 91 as a kid, way - way back at Kings Cross.
Thanks for this great summary which points up much of how we have got to where we are with Britain's railway. All I can say is, what an utter mess Govt underfunding and privatisation has made of our railways. All for ideology!
I saw these come out into service and remember them speeding through Thirsk at 125mph. Now I drive them for real. Absolute beasts.
I saw the preserved 91120 at Crewe Heritage Centre yesterday; it looks better than new!
I think the InterCity 225 was the APT-S (Advanced Passenger Train Service) as they have a similar design to the APT but with a single power car at one end of the train, similar profiled coaches but with 2 conventional bogies and plug doors as on the APT.
Saw a Transport for Wales Mk4 train set passing through Crewe during my visit to the heritage centre, with a Class 67 diesel.
I remember seeing a few of those!
June 10, 2023. I was with my family in England and we decided on that day to visit York, partially to see the rail museum and partially to relax in a park or by the river in a much less frantic atmosphere than London. On our way up and in the station I saw some 91s in their current LNER livery looking rather worn.
Glad to have seen them in their final days of operation, though it was a bit interesting that our trip between King’s Cross and York and back was done in their successor, the 801.
Great vid. A train of my childhood being of anglo-scottish descent.
Please do the Class 37!
The Mk 4 design was never as comfortable as the Mk 3 that preceded it. It took a lot of work to get them into service. A very good film, thank you.
Really do like the class 91 living next to the ECML always a treat to see these running.
I sometimes see these engines making north and southbound trips whilst making my journey to and from my college. These include Skyfall, after the James Bond film, the units decorated in the special liveries for the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and Rememberance Day, Flying Scotsman, Sir Bobby Robson, Durham Cathedral and Lord Mayor of Newcastle.
The biggest thing about the 91 is that it's much easier to go travelling with a bicycles thus be able to promote active travel, that the Class 800 struggle to even hold a bicycle.
Had the Hornby train set in 1996.
I did read that after their withdrawal from the ECML some DVT's operated the GER main line from Liverpool Street.
I don't think that's true? Mk4 sets were never used on the GEML, they used Mk3 DVTs with Mk3 carriages and Class 90s until replaced by 745 Flirt sets
@@TheCatOfWarCSGO I only said DVT's, I didn't state which ones. At the time of print in 2019 the three priority fleets were Hitachi GWR, Hitachi LNER and Siemens fleets for the North Western Region.
It was a short term filler which they also did with Class 43 services which were used on the South West stopping services where they were needed as the DMU stock was outdated.
Now the South West have 180's fully assigned with the odd 158 and 150 service restricted to branch line runs.
0:30 This British Rail Intercity 225 High Speed Train Is A Bit Like The Japanese Bullet Train In Tokyo In Japan. Thanks Mate. X🚅
Yay, finally. Great documentary! One of the best trains to ever run on the British network.
Excellent video - well researched and very informative
The classic documentary style made me love this video!
As I watched this on the train to work, a 225 set went past at Finsbury Park!
Hopefully a set will be preserved
Glad to hear some are still in service. These are my favorite modern day locos
Awesome locomotives!
yay, my favourite train :)
class 91's and 225 sets are the best, I love there looks and sounds and have very fond memories of travelling on them when back in 2018 I travelled in the cab from London :)
cheers for the video mate very well illustrated, keep up the good work
British rail history, the perfect video to enjoy while eating dinner. Never have i been so early to a new upload before!
Lovely video on the Class 91! I really admire the work you do on these documentaries, they're so well written and presented. Thank you for all that you do!
Great memories of the 7am York-KXX GNER 1st Class service of 20 years ago. Full Yorkshire Grill on the way down followed by 3 course Silver Service dinner on the 5pm return journey. Had my own car parking space next to Platform 1 courtesy of Albert. It only cost me a bottle of whisky for him and a bottle of advocaat for his wife every Christmas. #goodolddays
I hope at least one full set can be preserved for railtour use. Ideally in its original livery.
Another great video Ruairidh.
The Mark 4 DVT were TOPS coded NZA (Driving Luggage Van with airbrakes) and were to diagram NZ502. They were numbered 82200 to 82231. Also in the 82xxx numbering series were the Mark3B DVT 9numbers 82101 to 82152. As any British rail enthusiast could tell you when it comes to locomotive-hauled coaching stock the number just identifies the vehicle and its type (First Class passenger coach, Gangwayed Brake, Genersl Untility Van, etc) and not its TOPS class, which is given by an alpha-numeric code, for example GK1G which is a HST Trailer Buffet First (G indicates a HST vehicle, K identifies it as a Buffet car, the 1 indicates that it carries First Class passengers and the final G indicates that it is of Mark 3 construction.
Excellent documentary again 😊
Electra class 91s are the ones that are the most dominant high speed trains of the east coast mainline and now as of today some of them are now off to scrapping
Class 91 was a beautiful train
Fantastic video as always! Thanks for your excellent work!
very nice im not a train buff but have to say when i was heading to liverpool at crewe i saw this class 91 and i think that apt train and 125 intercity,i wished i tooked a pic now
I do remember those trains and how they were built to operate on the East Coast Main Line, West Coast Main Line and Great Eastern Main Line. At least LNER have kept some of the Class 91 Mk4 Intercity 225 for some time.
Thanks once again. Your production is pure gold. ❤❤❤❤
Regarding the Hatfield crash, the train would have been travelling at no more than 115mph as 125 running starts south of Knebworth.
These would have looked great top and tailing Intermodal (225) freight.
Sad to see CL90s being removed from DB service as well.
that was a well made documentary with a great voice for narration
I was surprised to find out how narrow these sets are being roughly 2.8m while most HST are 2.9m+ to 3.4m wide. Crazy legacy loading gauges. Fair enough only the TGV derivatives and BR made trains runs high speed lines in the UK
My memories of this electric HST express; my nanna/grandmother owned a hotel when I was a child, the private part had a balcony and as the ECML was quite near to the hotel, I could watch the trains whizzing past sitting, standing on said balcony, a mixture of electric commuter trains, HST diesel, and electric HST trains and the odd freight train. Several years later my dad said that we were to go on holiday in the city of York, and instead of “usually” going in his car, we were going to catch the HST to York station for a change, we went to our local station [Gordon Hill] and caught the class 313 electric commuter train to Finsbury Park station where we got off and caught a main line commuter train to Kings cross (end terminus) station, where we got off [train had terminated] and went & looked at the departure board for the platform, train and time it will leave. We went to the correct platform and an electric HST was sitting there with its doors open (like the one featured in this video) and we got on it, in second class; it was quiet inside the carriage and it had climate control ~ the windows were sealed/not openable, our luggage went on a rack above us and we sat at a table “that we could put things & our lunch on it”, not as luxurious as “first class” = each set of seats had a table aligned in the middle of each window, the table also had a (reading) lamp on it and the windows had curtains that you could close for privacy at night/being blinded by the sun [the train/railway being at a particular angle to it] and the “quiet” rule for passengers. At the start of the journey a female staff member went down the carriage with a trolley of cold/hot drinks/snacks and mum & dad bought tea/coffee from her, when it was time for lunch we had the weird sensation of walking through a moving train, having to walk past all the other passengers in the second class carriages 😳, and operate the vestibule doors at the end of each carriage (part of the quiet experience) to the buffet car where we bought our lunch and went back to our carriage with it and located where the toilets were [I had the experience of using the toilet on that train]. Eventually the train pulled into York station and we got off it and I said “how interesting it was to experience being on an express HST”. ***** at the end of our holiday we went to York station and waited for our HST express to take us back to Kings cross station, as the HST pulled in I recognised it and said to dad “it’s a diesel!”, the only difference with this was [being older] it had “slam doors” with a sliding window in them, the inside was similar to its more modern electric counterpart we were on at the start of our holiday. I can’t remember if the HST express stopped at Stevenage station and we directly got our local train to Gordon Hill. A rememberable experience of riding on these (now withdrawn ☹️) trains, my dad is a “petrol” head and loves fast/sports cars. And has an interest in public transport, but prefers the car when on holiday.
Excellent analysis as always - this is a great channel. Well researched; well presented; factual and entertaining. This trainset was, in my opinion, one of the most attractive ever run on the network.
great info
Beautiful, elegant locomotive and the blunt end looks aerodynamic against the passenger coach it's couple to, which wouldn't have been the case for the Class 89.
And those chime horns ! Very capable locos that were held back from regular service at 140 mph which could have been used when the train was late at least (as on HS1).
From an enthusiast point of view they just sound like a hoover but on the footplate the traction motors can be heard from above about 30 mph (there are footplate videos here on YT such as `Class 91 Cab Ride - London KX - Stevenage (Part1)'.
There is something to be said for the Class 43 replacing the DVT permanently but with a standby lightweight 1000 HP Diesel engine installed so that, in the event of Class 91 failure, the train could complete it's journey at a slower speed.
I hope they are sold overseas rather than scrapped but of course will need re-gearing if for freight use.
Nice to see your own work included in the video.
It reminds me of my beloved IR4 (derived from the danish ic3) except that its reliability got better after a noise filter was fitted. ABB scandia in Randers could have build more if Nyrup eletrified every central inter city route before the great belt bridge.
There are two at HNRC Worksop yards being used as translators for shunting
I'm fairly baised to the Class 390 as I grew up seeing and using them 24/7 being next to Trent Valley, the 91 has really grew on me I think its one of the better trains on the network now. Shame central wasnt able to get their service on the WCML during the COVID situation
From the looks of it these locos are very stubborn as any attempt to get them off the ECML has failed
also having them on heavy freight would be feasible, even if they are magically bounded to the ecml because these are some absolute UNITS with more hp then a lot of American diesels which if you account in them being British loading gauge is insane
I thought you were kidding but you are 100% right. Most big American diesels have somwhere around 4000 horsepower. The 91s have 6480. That's insane. Amazing locomotives
@@krthecarguy5150 The class 91 is also significently smaller than the US diesels as well.
As a card-carrying member of the 225 Group, I can definitively say that this video was well worth the wait.
By way of topics for future videos, may I suggest the SBB-CFF-FFS Re 460 of Switzerland and the EMD AEM-7 of America by way of Sweden?
Yeah the Re 460 (IC2000) would be a great one. One of my favourite locos in the world.
The thumbnail photo and the first shot in the video do not show a Class 91 locomotive but the "Driving Van Trailer" that is on the other end of the train. You can tell because there is no pantograph.
Yet another highly interesting and enjoyable documentary; what a lot of Likes!! Well-deserved!
Ruairidh I'm aware I might sound patronising I don't want to be just to give encouragement where encouragement is due 😊
Could do with some punctuation David Crook 🙄 "I don't want to be patronizing; just encouraging"
Seen a few at Leeds recently, looking resplendent in the ICE livery.
It's not ICE livery. It's the original Intercity Swallow livery
never got to see a 91 sadly living in South Wales but they were the poster boys of British passenger services when i was little. would like to also suggest a Class 58 video
I don't know where that "expense of rebuilding King's Cross station to accomodate overhead wires" myth comes from, but it is nonsense. The electrification (which eventually happened in the mid 70s) required no structural alterations to the station yet that myth still persists... Apart from that I really enjoyed this clip especially those early test shots of the 91s. The current "retro" LNER harks back to those early days of the Mk4s and looks splendid. I will be sad when the do eventually go, not just because they are far more comfortable and refined trains to travel in than those 800/IET units. We've definitely gone backwards in that sense.
It does not make sense does it? Especially as during the modernisation of the WCML, they completely rebuilt Euston, which was reportedly an attractive structure in the 1950s. Kings Cross does not & never did look grand on the scale of St Pancras.
@@TheRip72 They completely rebuilt Euston AND Birmingham New St (complete disaster in design!) along with a number of the more minor stations such as Stafford, Northampton, Coventry etc. I cannot imagine what the expense of all that must have been...but it got done!
By contrast very little was changed on the ECML beyond raising bridges where required and track realignment for higher speeds where possible. And the electrification its self was done as cheaply as possible too. It was a cheap job compared to the WCML job of 20 years prior.
Cheap and nasty, some might say. The OLE standard designs have changed a bit since then - although it might gone too far, if you consider the GW main line! While they have upgraded some of the power supply on parts of the ECML, there are still restrictions as to how many services can be operated electrically on some sections for the time being.@@soundseeker63
I never understood why the nose of the DVT wasn’t built to be identical to the 91. It’s very similar, obviously, but not exactly the same, and not as well resolved. It seems narrower, the angle of the windscreen doesn’t seem quite right, there are flaps underneath the windscreen and why are the horns not behind the actual horn grille? Was Metro-Cammell just not able to duplicate the loco nose properly?
If you would like to get up and close to a class 91, then come and see our one in the museum of Scottish railways at the Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway, in Bo’ness Scotland 🏴 there’s a trailer car too but isn’t on public view (owned by a private company).
I don't know, but Class 91 is my fav British loco, and one of my all-time favorites. That's just something almost untrain-like about it that makes me such a fanboy.
Great video, as always.
Possibly the best intros/outros on YT!
PS. Did anyone else notice the briefest of brief glimpses of the Class 141/142 Pacer in there when there was a train pulling into a station that could well have been York?
It was a 141 in the original green and cream livery, and you're right - it was York!!
Great video of the 91s .. have you done such a video for the 90s ?
A few minor corrections. You said the IC125 was introduced in 1977. This is incorrect. On the Western, they entered service in 1976. On the East Coast in 1978. And on the Midland Mainline in 1982. The 140 top speed was thought achievable by BR using flashing green signals to signify two signal sections at green, or 5 aspect signalling with 4 signal sections before a red. However, the HMRI would not approve its use, saying that speeds over 125 mph would require in cab signalling as they felt drivers could not observe signals at the 140 mph speed. Many railway operators preferred the Class 89 to the Class 91, which was favoured by the track engineers who prefer 4 axle locos.
Alas it is such a sad day when one realises he/she will NEVER witness an intercity 225 working ‘slab end first’…. One bit of trivia, I read that if the formation that struck the car and trailer had been operating with the DVT at the rear, it would have had a lot more weight at the front and may not have derailed causing many fewer casualties…
And did the HST power car give them a boost! You got pinned to your seat coming out of a station. Happy days.
For those who don't know the difference between the Class 90 and the Class 91, the Class 90 is an Electric Locomotive, and the Class 91 is an EMU (Electrical Multiple Unit)
The 91 is more of a power car that is almost always in a train set. IIRC MUs have 23:27 self propelled csrriages
I was waiting for this video and now it's here
Excellent shot. Like
The Class 87 are known as Electric Scots, but there is only service called the Royal Scot in each direction on the WCML.
With the odd arrangement caused by the delay in introducing The MK IV Stock and DVT's between The Class 43 and 91 at either end of a rake of MK III's generated a staggering 8550hp on tap.
And an early form of hybrid train, both diesel & overhead wire electric
ngl thats a quite flexible bi mode train.
apart from the fact class 43's haft to have their engines constantly on.
i remember quite clearly in the late eighties and im sure in 84 with hst 125 london to wakefield was 1 hr50 mins and leeds just over 2hrs did it many times now its 2 and half with the hitachi anyone know why we have gone backwards like concord
And the 125 was much more comfortable as well!
17:27 The underlying cause of the Hatfield crash was the failure of the privatisation contracts.
The risks of weak privatisation performance based contracts were pointed out by unions and managers prior to privatisation but knowingly ignored.
The politicians and the lawyers who wrote the contracts were the root cause. They as well as the contractor should have been prosecuted under Section 2 of HSWA.
I've watched so many videos on the Electra that I skipped pasted this when it was first posted assuming I'd already watched it
Sad we never got to see 89 and the 91s in the Western Region.
Also if 7:30 isn’t a health and safety violation, I don’t know what is.
health and safety wasn't much a consideration in the past, very unsafe!
And just today they’ve been confirmed to be receiving ETCS and sticking around until 2027 !
*UPDATE ON THE EURO PHEONIX 91s*
91120 is currently on display at Crewe Heritage Centre and very recently has been repainted into Intercity Swallow.The other 91, 91117 is currently located at Barrow Hill and is intented to be a temporary spares donor for 89001 "Avocet"
Hi, can you please do a video about the LNER A1-3 for the flying scotsman's centenary?
This is what Britain is good at making something that works well ,in a political world ,that doesn't like railway.40 years of tory britain
This essay nicely answers my question as to why Britain's high tech, heavy industry has collapsed. The sheer and utter imbecilic decision making process and the obsession with "might-be"'s is both sad and frustrating. To think of all the wasted opportunities because so many "important people" have a stake.
Having said that - the Class 91 and the "new" livery is absolutely delicious!
Unknowingly, I was on its first service, along with the queen.
Only every went on one of these trains but they did look cool didn't they.??
they have the same retro-futuristic vibe as the TGV sudest
Been over the Hatfield curve hundreds of times travelling in the Class 43's 😢
Wow, looks like something straight out of Syd Mead's portfolio!