I had a POC friend who said that only white people thought that Nazism went away. I thought about it for a moment and concluded that white supremacy is like horror movies. They never go away, there are just times in history when it's more trendy for nerds to be into.
I didn't like the movie because I think the homoerotic subtext (which is definitely there in the source material) took center stage in place of the more disturbing elements they chose to leave out -- Todd's preoccupation with pain and humiliation (his first wet dream reads like King ripped it straight from an Ilsa movie), the understated yet vicious racism that saturates his life, the end when he finally embraces his destiny as a mass murderer.
A friend of mine in college had a Nazi fetish. It was probably my first foray into fetishism (or at least being exposed to the idea of it). It was strange at first to learn that such a gentle, kind soul could associate himself with such an opposing idea (though it helped give me some understanding as to why he stayed with his extremely abusive German boyfriend for so long). After his suicide, one of my biggest worries was that his family would stumble across the pieces of Nazi paraphernalia I (embarrassingly) bought in a London street market and think that he held similar views.
I haven't seen the movie, but I just finished the story, and I am really, really surprised that the movies relationship between Dussander and Todd is "homoerotic" in any way. Really surprised! Really! Why? How? In the book, Todd is a sociopath/phsycopath who gets turned on by violence. He's dating girls to seem normal, and when he gets problems with "the wood", he fantasies about raping girls, with tortureinstruments. The "relationship" between Dussander and Todd starts with Todd blackmailing Dussander to tell him about WW2, "all the good stuff, the stuff that's left out of historybooks". They share an interest in violence, and they have a mutual blackmail-thing going on between them. The story doesn't end well for neither Dussander nor Todd. I really, really hope we never mix "gay" into the perverted world of Dussander and Todd, to be honest.
Well, the film is NOT homoerotic to me, this is just interpretation. In the novella, Todd loses all interest in sex as in the film, as violence and power are all he cares about. His relationship with Dussander is about a struggle for power and manipulation to see who can outdo the other. That is more or less in the film, just with less violence. As far as I am concerned, we don't.
4:20 i according to Randy Shilts in 'Conduct Unbecoming' there exists a study the Germans did in WW1 to investigate why so many homosexuals were exceptional soldiers. Also, my (deceased) partner's mother, after his father's death was partners with an Estonian named Cyrus. The Germans recruited Estonians as camp guards because of their physical size, hatred of Communism (which at that time was conflated with Jews) and their cultural sadism. The idea recruitment could be based on perceived innate qualities of groups of people is not at all far-fetched especially considering Na zi ideology.
Jack Halberstam's "Queer Art of Failure" talks briefly about Gay Nazism - in very guarded, cautious terms. It's a messy thing to unpack and maybe not worth doing in a youtube comment, but fascism has a fetish for masculinity and power and sometimes that translates into something that is homoerotic, as the film demonstrates. Two bros bro-ing it out for the chance to be "top."
i personally find the movie inferior to the book. toning down the violence in my opinion damaged the message . blackmail is not a good substitute to murder. they did however remove todd turning anti semetic, i never really got that . why is he anti semtic now?
Interesting to know that Bryan Singer and Ian McKellen were on X-Men: Days of Future Past - pretty anti-Nazi and as pro-gay as the mutant analogy would allow. :)
one stephen king story that was just a horrible transposition to the screen. the film becomes almost ludicrous after reading the book. hard to believe 'rita hayworth and shawshamk redemption' came out of the same novella given the massive popularity of that film.
the thing about hitler being gay was propaganda from america. hitlers first officer at the beginning was however gay. earnst rohm was his name. thats what prompted america to release the propaganda that hitler was gay and caused the night of long knives event which began the nazis rounding up gays and putting them in concentration camps.
Im sorry. I have seen this movie, and the word gay, or even remotely a connection to it didnt cross my mind, and the examples are more a projection than what it actually shows kn the movie and what it tried to convey. The movie is simply about a kid, that first finds a fascination with WW2, and later finds a real former nazi. Than a struggle begins with his innerself, he starts to think what would happen if he crossed that moral line, (like the scene with the ball and bird) to the extent he even tries to blackmail the old nazi himself. And his powerhunger really shows when he treathen his teacher with false claims. He suddenly feels the power of this dark, demonic ruthelessnes.
He actually has a video like that. It should be titled "Action Movies need more gay." His explanation for that was that lgbt movies tend to be under lower budgets and dont have the money behind them for car chases and explosions, so screen writers stick to character orientated stuff, ie: drama, romance and comedy.
I think one of the more blatantly homoerotic scenes of the film had to be with the homeless man in Dussander's kitchen. If I remember correctly, there were implications that the guy thought he and Dussander were going to have sex.
Nothing here is new to the ear. Everybody is gay. They just chose to only show as much as needed. If that. Brutality is not biased, be it gay or heterosexual. The end result is slaughter. What people chose to do along the way is strictly pure enjoyment.
WHAAATT??? A Musical??? Well, I don't buy it. It can still be homophobic if it wasn't intended to be. I for the least find the idea of sexualizing Nazis very damn disgusting.
Lol wtf?? Yes, The Holocaust _was_ worse than 9/11 or anything else The Taliban has done. Hell, the worst atrocities in modern _Middle Eastern_ history weren’t even committed by them, ISIS is obviously the top contender for that spot and even they pale in comparison to The Nazis. Sorry to blow your America centric worldview, but I think that American foreign policy may have even been a more destructive force in the Middle East, and the rest of the world for that matter, than The Taliban.
Wow you're a fucking idiot. A state with a massive military is almost always going to be capable of doing far worse than some disparate groups of terrorists, but okay. Point me to where the taliban killed 6 million people in half a decade, and caused such a massive war, and historical event that we refer to everything after it as post *enter event here*. And even if you take 9-11 as an example, it's still a grain of sand when compared to the holocaust. 3000 vs. 6 million. Hmmm....
Here's more obvious gay not gay in the novel itself maybe Todd is assexual here. Its question which Stephen king never answered Or sex orientation is not important here, because it's one side of one protagonist only
Wasnt it about the seducion of power and supiority and that the nazi ideology is still around because of it. Even when the nazis were often unintentional homoerotic that is the message i took and is true as many who followed that ideology went to america and founded big neonazi organisations. And the inimicy of the characters comes from there interesting pupil teacher relationship.
Watching 2013 rantasmo talk about Nazis being considered ubiquitously evil in our society, in 2018 is very very depressing
why? what happened?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're still ubiquitously evil in 2022 just as they were in 2018.
YES. IN 2018. AND THEN NEVER AGAIN. 😭
"nazism is also the ultimate taboo"
*cut to modern day, 1 yer later*
Heheheheheh
Help
:'(
I had a POC friend who said that only white people thought that Nazism went away. I thought about it for a moment and concluded that white supremacy is like horror movies. They never go away, there are just times in history when it's more trendy for nerds to be into.
I didn't like the movie because I think the homoerotic subtext (which is definitely there in the source material) took center stage in place of the more disturbing elements they chose to leave out -- Todd's preoccupation with pain and humiliation (his first wet dream reads like King ripped it straight from an Ilsa movie), the understated yet vicious racism that saturates his life, the end when he finally embraces his destiny as a mass murderer.
The film focused more on the power and manipulation which works for a thriller.
rantasmo, I'm actually really interested to know your thoughts on The Producers.
Seeing his picture at 0:58, Josef Mengele is just one of those figures who sends absolute chills down my freaking spine. Truly horrendous
I literally just watched this film 10 minutes ago. I gotta say I enjoyed the film more now than I did 10 years ago.
Apt Pupil doesn’t need any more than it already has. It’s a brilliant film exactly the way it is.
Here from the year 2017... and uh... that opener... something kinda went wrong unfortunately :(
A friend of mine in college had a Nazi fetish. It was probably my first foray into fetishism (or at least being exposed to the idea of it). It was strange at first to learn that such a gentle, kind soul could associate himself with such an opposing idea (though it helped give me some understanding as to why he stayed with his extremely abusive German boyfriend for so long). After his suicide, one of my biggest worries was that his family would stumble across the pieces of Nazi paraphernalia I (embarrassingly) bought in a London street market and think that he held similar views.
I haven't seen the movie, but I just finished the story, and I am really, really surprised that the movies relationship between Dussander and Todd is "homoerotic" in any way. Really surprised! Really! Why? How?
In the book, Todd is a sociopath/phsycopath who gets turned on by violence. He's dating girls to seem normal, and when he gets problems with "the wood", he fantasies about raping girls, with tortureinstruments. The "relationship" between Dussander and Todd starts with Todd blackmailing Dussander to tell him about WW2, "all the good stuff, the stuff that's left out of historybooks". They share an interest in violence, and they have a mutual blackmail-thing going on between them. The story doesn't end well for neither Dussander nor Todd.
I really, really hope we never mix "gay" into the perverted world of Dussander and Todd, to be honest.
Well, the film is NOT homoerotic to me, this is just interpretation.
In the novella, Todd loses all interest in sex as in the film, as violence and power are all he cares about. His relationship with Dussander is about a struggle for power and manipulation to see who can outdo the other. That is more or less in the film, just with less violence.
As far as I am concerned, we don't.
How was Todd blackmailed?
4:20 i according to Randy Shilts in 'Conduct Unbecoming' there exists a study the Germans did in WW1 to investigate why so many homosexuals were exceptional soldiers. Also, my (deceased) partner's mother, after his father's death was partners with an Estonian named Cyrus. The Germans recruited Estonians as camp guards because of their physical size, hatred of Communism (which at that time was conflated with Jews) and their cultural sadism. The idea recruitment could be based on perceived innate qualities of groups of people is not at all far-fetched especially considering Na zi ideology.
Watching this is 2018 makes the introduction about nazis being considered evil depressing.
Jack Halberstam's "Queer Art of Failure" talks briefly about Gay Nazism - in very guarded, cautious terms. It's a messy thing to unpack and maybe not worth doing in a youtube comment, but fascism has a fetish for masculinity and power and sometimes that translates into something that is homoerotic, as the film demonstrates. Two bros bro-ing it out for the chance to be "top."
A homoerotic Nazi thriller. Let me say that again: a homoerotic. Nazi. Thriller. Umm...okay.
No..Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like an amateur
No
@@Acidlib yes
Thanks so much for posting more often! /post more please/
i personally find the movie inferior to the book. toning down the violence in my opinion damaged the message . blackmail is not a good substitute to murder. they did however remove todd turning anti semetic, i never really got that . why is he anti semtic now?
The film focused more on blackmail, manipulation, and power. It still works.
Lol that last bit killed me
Interesting to know that Bryan Singer and Ian McKellen were on X-Men: Days of Future Past - pretty anti-Nazi and as pro-gay as the mutant analogy would allow. :)
Oh. My. God!!! The x-men movies are an apology for apt pupil!
one stephen king story that was just a horrible transposition to the screen. the film becomes almost ludicrous after reading the book. hard to believe 'rita hayworth and shawshamk redemption' came out of the same novella given the massive popularity of that film.
You mean novella collection. Also, the film kicked ass.
Awesome as always!
the thing about hitler being gay was propaganda from america. hitlers first officer at the beginning was however gay. earnst rohm was his name. thats what prompted america to release the propaganda that hitler was gay and caused the night of long knives event which began the nazis rounding up gays and putting them in concentration camps.
Im sorry. I have seen this movie, and the word gay, or even remotely a connection to it didnt cross my mind, and the examples are more a projection than what it actually shows kn the movie and what it tried to convey.
The movie is simply about a kid, that first finds a fascination with WW2, and later finds a real former nazi. Than a struggle begins with his innerself, he starts to think what would happen if he crossed that moral line, (like the scene with the ball and bird) to the extent he even tries to blackmail the old nazi himself. And his powerhunger really shows when he treathen his teacher with false claims. He suddenly feels the power of this dark, demonic ruthelessnes.
He actually has a video like that. It should be titled "Action Movies need more gay."
His explanation for that was that lgbt movies tend to be under lower budgets and dont have the money behind them for car chases and explosions, so screen writers stick to character orientated stuff, ie: drama, romance and comedy.
I think one of the more blatantly homoerotic scenes of the film had to be with the homeless man in Dussander's kitchen. If I remember correctly, there were implications that the guy thought he and Dussander were going to have sex.
Wait what
Nothing here is new to the ear. Everybody is gay. They just chose to only show as much as needed. If that. Brutality is not biased, be it gay or heterosexual. The end result is slaughter. What people chose to do along the way is strictly pure enjoyment.
someone clearly saw the movie and did not read the book!
Damn , gay or not gay I aint saying anybody saying something about the director is a fucking abuser in real life .
Just found out about a maybe cool moviee
WHAAATT??? A Musical???
Well, I don't buy it. It can still be homophobic if it wasn't intended to be. I for the least find the idea of sexualizing Nazis very damn disgusting.
It has enough gay, I think.
Soooo... the worst thing in modern history? I guess the atrocities of the taliban just never happened
Lol wtf?? Yes, The Holocaust _was_ worse than 9/11 or anything else The Taliban has done. Hell, the worst atrocities in modern _Middle Eastern_ history weren’t even committed by them, ISIS is obviously the top contender for that spot and even they pale in comparison to The Nazis. Sorry to blow your America centric worldview, but I think that American foreign policy may have even been a more destructive force in the Middle East, and the rest of the world for that matter, than The Taliban.
Wow you're a fucking idiot. A state with a massive military is almost always going to be capable of doing far worse than some disparate groups of terrorists, but okay.
Point me to where the taliban killed 6 million people in half a decade, and caused such a massive war, and historical event that we refer to everything after it as post *enter event here*.
And even if you take 9-11 as an example, it's still a grain of sand when compared to the holocaust. 3000 vs. 6 million. Hmmm....
Here's more obvious gay not gay in the novel itself maybe Todd is assexual here. Its question which Stephen king never answered
Or sex orientation is not important here, because it's one side of one protagonist only
Stop trying to put more gay in classic movies. Not everything has to be gay
But I like you're content
dude this movie was pretty gay
Yes it does.
Wasnt it about the seducion of power and supiority and that the nazi ideology is still around because of it. Even when the nazis were often unintentional homoerotic that is the message i took and is true as many who followed that ideology went to america and founded big neonazi organisations. And the inimicy of the characters comes from there interesting pupil teacher relationship.
Dude! What this of all your videos on the subject of GAY! is that is because you are cancel culture?