Highly informative (as usual) Matt; and fair play for undertaking that long ride to help a mate out. Hopefully your expertise will ensure that Dave's clutch will now be one less thing for him to worry about. ;-)
@@dirtygarageguy Well I did start the last sentence with "hopefully"! 😁 At least Dave will know how to change the plates now (if your crafty fix doesn't last); and he'll know what replacement parts to order from the big K. Job's a good 'un. 👍
yeah dodgy parts wouldnt surprise me. i mean its one thing if you personally purchase parts from a trusted supplier, another if you got it from a friend who thinks he got it from someone else who bought the '100% genuine' parts off ebay from seller number1crutchprates shipping from china after being stored for a year in a warehouse at the bottom of the yangtze river for clutches (or pretty much any component internal to the engine really) its usually pretty tough to beat oem.
brother pong I think I’m gonna have to agree, I replaced a friends clutch on the B1h with “genuine” eBay EBC srk plates and after around 1k miles he thinks it slipping again! I replaced mine from a demon-tweeks with the same pack and she is still pulling strong after 5k miles with no issues. These Chinese counterfeit there own counterfeits
Hi mate good informative video I have the exact same bike which I race and had the same problem with clutch slip replaced it with a trw clutch and spring kit then 7 laps into a test day it was toast again whipped it apart steel plates knackered blued massively but the clutch springs were all way shorter than the specified tolerance (were fine on installation) do you think theres any under lying issue that may have caused this or another case of cheap and cheerfully shit clutch parts (bought the clutch through a reputable company)
This is what I love about your channel. You're willing to ride half-way across the country to help someone out. (Granted, he gave you an engine, but it's a give and take, right?)
@@miles11we with very narrow windy roads and many millions of cars and trucks.. Some of the best riding roads anywhere in the world, but frequently ruined by speed cameras excess cars and trucks. Not the best place to ride something not designed to go round bends.
I don't know if you have done a video on a lock up clutch .how it works . i would like to see how it works . my 17 gsxr 1000 has a lock up clutch . its very graby...
My 2009 zx6r is doing something weird. When I downshift from 3rd to 2nd gear it goes into neutral. It's as if it's skipping second gear. My oil in the bike is still fresh and was changed a thousand miles ago. Does this mean I need a new clutch or is it a different issue????
I've bought and replaced EBC clutch plates,the kit came with too many plates for my bike. Apparently they knock these kits out to fit various models,but not all models need everything in the kit. The oil that should have been on those friction plates,as you said burned off,the residue has to have went somewhere,airbox via engine breather,might be worth his while checking his airfilter. We don't need to see your fancy designer drawers,especially as they probably cost more than my monthly food bill.
"Apparently they knock these kits out to fit various models,but not all models need everything in the kit." - True, but don't confuse that with what's happened here - the clutch ARE different sizes "We don't need to see your fancy designer drawers,especially as they probably cost more than my monthly food bill." - LOL - dude they're cheap as fuck....
A couple of questions - who makes OEM plates,are they in house or do the Big bike manufacturers sub-contract out to EBC for example,also anyone have any experience of Gecko Clutch kits ?.
"Can't he just send it to ebc and see if it's genuine " - That's the plan. "Not to replace it but just to satisfy curiosity?" - Well he needs the bike to race.......
That doesn't matter - If you buy a clutch that is new from EBC you can always complain - I don't think its an EBC one at any rate. EBC will be interested to see if its a fake - and Dave isn't looking for a replacement from EBC.....
@@Snurre86 there's no incentive for that, if a real EBC clutch failed then they want to know before it causes damage to the brand so for a reputable company they wont go down that road.
Out of curiousity,, you had a complete new basket,, why not replace the whole lot,, All i had to see was the pic of the baskets,,, you all saw the ridges in the basket fingers?. Fastest way i know of to burn out a clutch,, ridges like that on the basket fingers mean all the plates are facing resistance when engadging an disengadging the clutch.
"why not replace the whole lot" - Because it didn't fit LOL - maybe you feel asleep at that bit..... "Fastest way i know of to burn out a clutch,, ridges like that on the basket fingers mean all the plates are facing resistance when engadging an disengadging the clutch." - Come again what?
Dry clutches do not go spongy... I bet that would not have happend to a dry clutch. They do not burn oil. And what oil did he use? that might not be good for wet clutches. Like the oil for cars. There is the proof that dry clutches might not be so shite at all... or are all clutches shite?
I mentioned that because is he sure that the previous lad had used the right oil to soak it before installing it? That might be the reason he gave it away because he fucked it up... Motul 7100 is what he is running in the bike but if you think I just soak it in some left over oil because I need to buy new oil. That is when shit hits the wall. A dry clutch does not care if you use vegetable oil in your engine.
"I mentioned that because is he sure that the previous lad had used the right oil to soak it before installing it" - Dave bought the clutch kit off a mate and it was still in the packet - untouched/never used - Dave soaked it in the Motul 7100 - which is the oil he also uses in the bike. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
That clutch is shite or is the oil shite? I only know that the clutches shit the bed if the clutch gets soaked in car engine oil... some shit the bed when you use break cleaner on them. I am just saying shite does not come from nothing.
The Workshop ...I have another Kawasaki. The clutch consists of steels, friction plates and two cork plates. One cork goes in first in a slightly different order by the notches and one goes in last (next to the pressure plate) also in a slightly different order. The corks look almost the same as the friction plates. I don't know if the bike you're discussing here uses corks or not but somebody previously messing around may or may not have omitted them. Also, I don't know exactly what the corks do. Maybe for smoothing out the action, or for spacing, just a guess.
Nice article outlining the core materials technologies rather than the usual marketing BS to be found these days . So six types of clutch materials www.phoenixfriction.com/t-clutch-materials-explained.aspx the #4 Kevlar one is most likely the EBC kit (para-aramid fibers sound familiar) ... and explains why they need those beefier springs than stock ... so if the SRC kit is made of aramid fibers (as they say it is) then what's unclear is why they would recommend that clutch material for racing ... racing would want to use a ceramic material ... I think EBC is having a lend of the truth with the "Street Racer" part ... lots of material here for your awesome vids Matt.
thats for cars (dry clutches), the materials used in dry clutch friction discs are close to those used in brake pads which makes sense when you consider the similarity of the applications - friction material being clamped against dry steel. like that ducati friction disc matt showed in the dry clutch video, if you look close you can see what appears to be sintered metal glinting in the light. for wet clutches, oem's almost universally use a cork type material for the friction discs. ive always figured 'kevlar' aftermarket clutches to be mostly a gimmick. years ago, tried a barnett kevlar clutch kit, it was nearly the best waste of money i'd ever spent lol. bit great for maybe the first couple of hundred miles (just road riding, no drag racing), and then went to shite pretty quickly. not like the oem clutches which can easily do 30K+ miles of normal riding.
Aight my bad. Found this writeup on 3 basic wet clutch options, Rubber/Cork, Kevlar & Carbon and discussion re coefficient of friction ... www.quora.com/What-are-the-materials-used-for-making-motorcycle-Clutch-plate ...
Testing with t_shirt is always the point where you crash.
Highly informative (as usual) Matt; and fair play for undertaking that long ride to help a mate out. Hopefully your expertise will ensure that Dave's clutch will now be one less thing for him to worry about. ;-)
Well we'll see - in other words no promises LOL
@@dirtygarageguy Well I did start the last sentence with "hopefully"! 😁 At least Dave will know how to change the plates now (if your crafty fix doesn't last); and he'll know what replacement parts to order from the big K. Job's a good 'un. 👍
yeah dodgy parts wouldnt surprise me. i mean its one thing if you personally purchase parts from a trusted supplier, another if you got it from a friend who thinks he got it from someone else who bought the '100% genuine' parts off ebay from seller number1crutchprates shipping from china after being stored for a year in a warehouse at the bottom of the yangtze river
for clutches (or pretty much any component internal to the engine really) its usually pretty tough to beat oem.
brother pong I think I’m gonna have to agree, I replaced a friends clutch on the B1h with “genuine” eBay EBC srk plates and after around 1k miles he thinks it slipping again! I replaced mine from a demon-tweeks with the same pack and she is still pulling strong after 5k miles with no issues. These Chinese counterfeit there own counterfeits
Hi mate good informative video I have the exact same bike which I race and had the same problem with clutch slip replaced it with a trw clutch and spring kit then 7 laps into a test day it was toast again whipped it apart steel plates knackered blued massively but the clutch springs were all way shorter than the specified tolerance (were fine on installation) do you think theres any under lying issue that may have caused this or another case of cheap and cheerfully shit clutch parts (bought the clutch through a reputable company)
Possibly... deformed springs are or can be due to 2 things. 1) overheating or 2) overloading, which results in overheating.
Great video, apart from the close up of your southern end.
Slamming down that like button before watching the episode 😎 I know it's good Shite
Are those designer pants or a warning label your carer makes you wear when your allowed outside?
This is the problem with the internet, unless you order from a known source you can get screwed.
This is what I love about your channel. You're willing to ride half-way across the country to help someone out. (Granted, he gave you an engine, but it's a give and take, right?)
Granted it's a really small country
@@miles11we with very narrow windy roads and many millions of cars and trucks..
Some of the best riding roads anywhere in the world, but frequently ruined by speed cameras excess cars and trucks.
Not the best place to ride something not designed to go round bends.
@@williamarmstrong7199 and small
I don't know if you have done a video on a lock up clutch .how it works . i would like to see how it works . my 17 gsxr 1000 has a lock up clutch . its very graby...
Throw a bunch of locktite between all the plates it'll b fine.
JB Weld?
No more nails...
Perhaps he was using delbollocks super slippery lubricant
As soon as I hear eBay with regards to aftermarket motorcycle parts my skin starts crawling. Parts made from finest Chineseium.
A little bit of Blackadder there.
My 2009 zx6r is doing something weird.
When I downshift from 3rd to 2nd gear it goes into neutral. It's as if it's skipping second gear. My oil in the bike is still fresh and was changed a thousand miles ago. Does this mean I need a new clutch or is it a different issue????
You're getting a false neutral. First you need to check your selector drum detent spring
@@dirtygarageguy thank you. I'll get back to you once I have.
I've bought and replaced EBC clutch plates,the kit came with too many plates for my bike. Apparently they knock these kits out to fit various models,but not all models need everything in the kit. The oil that should have been on those friction plates,as you said burned off,the residue has to have went somewhere,airbox via engine breather,might be worth his while checking his airfilter. We don't need to see your fancy designer drawers,especially as they probably cost more than my monthly food bill.
"Apparently they knock these kits out to fit various models,but not all models need everything in the kit."
- True, but don't confuse that with what's happened here - the clutch ARE different sizes
"We don't need to see your fancy designer drawers,especially as they probably cost more than my monthly food bill."
- LOL - dude they're cheap as fuck....
You don't know what I can survive on. Picked you up wrong on the clutch,thought removing a plate was a permanent cure.
Working on someone's vehicle in front of them when they know how to work on it is a little awkward isn't it. Great video Matt
Yeah but when it's someone else's vehicle and you are just hanging out it's fun, for whatever reason when it's yours its work.
Not for an engineering God no.
A couple of questions - who makes OEM plates,are they in house or do the Big bike manufacturers sub-contract out to EBC for example,also anyone have any experience of Gecko Clutch kits ?.
Can't he just send it to ebc and see if it's genuine / or at least a faulty part? Not to replace it but just to satisfy curiosity?
"Can't he just send it to ebc and see if it's genuine "
- That's the plan.
"Not to replace it but just to satisfy curiosity?"
- Well he needs the bike to race.......
@@dirtygarageguy indeed, but if he bought it from a bloke on eBay, EBC can't be expected to replace it, that's what I meant.
That doesn't matter - If you buy a clutch that is new from EBC you can always complain - I don't think its an EBC one at any rate. EBC will be interested to see if its a fake - and Dave isn't looking for a replacement from EBC.....
@@dirtygarageguy They will just claim counterfeit no matter what?
@@Snurre86 there's no incentive for that, if a real EBC clutch failed then they want to know before it causes damage to the brand so for a reputable company they wont go down that road.
Out of curiousity,, you had a complete new basket,, why not replace the whole lot,, All i had to see was the pic of the baskets,,, you all saw the ridges in the basket fingers?. Fastest way i know of to burn out a clutch,, ridges like that on the basket fingers mean all the plates are facing resistance when engadging an disengadging the clutch.
"why not replace the whole lot"
- Because it didn't fit LOL - maybe you feel asleep at that bit.....
"Fastest way i know of to burn out a clutch,, ridges like that on the basket fingers mean all the plates are facing resistance when engadging an disengadging the clutch."
- Come again what?
I’m still waiting for the ER500 videos lol 😝 any ideas when???
Dry clutches do not go spongy... I bet that would not have happend to a dry clutch. They do not burn oil. And what oil did he use? that might not be good for wet clutches. Like the oil for cars. There is the proof that dry clutches might not be so shite at all... or are all clutches shite?
To make it clear: I mean the oil it was soaked in first. So if it was used before who knows.
"And what oil did he use?"
- Motul 7100
"that might not be good for wet clutches."
- It's tailored for wet clutches
I mentioned that because is he sure that the previous lad had used the right oil to soak it before installing it? That might be the reason he gave it away because he fucked it up... Motul 7100 is what he is running in the bike but if you think I just soak it in some left over oil because I need to buy new oil. That is when shit hits the wall. A dry clutch does not care if you use vegetable oil in your engine.
"I mentioned that because is he sure that the previous lad had used the right oil to soak it before installing it"
- Dave bought the clutch kit off a mate and it was still in the packet - untouched/never used - Dave soaked it in the Motul 7100 - which is the oil he also uses in the bike. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
That clutch is shite or is the oil shite? I only know that the clutches shit the bed if the clutch gets soaked in car engine oil... some shit the bed when you use break cleaner on them. I am just saying shite does not come from nothing.
Sounds like it was a cheap chinese paper and cardboard clutch, call that one a win
Are the first and last plates the 'corks'?
Clutch plates are a mixture of paper and cork, and some other bits
The Workshop ...I have another Kawasaki. The clutch consists of steels, friction plates and two cork plates. One cork goes in first in a slightly different order by the notches and one goes in last (next to the pressure plate) also in a slightly different order. The corks look almost the same as the friction plates. I don't know if the bike you're discussing here uses corks or not but somebody previously messing around may or may not have omitted them. Also, I don't know exactly what the corks do. Maybe for smoothing out the action, or for spacing, just a guess.
Also, I'm not talking about cork inserts. The whole plate has a cork surface and only varies in color to the frictions.
Why was it so dry??
That's what she said...
Friction burned it off. Ouch!
Take care not to scratch your knee sliders
Nice article outlining the core materials technologies rather than the usual marketing BS to be found these days . So six types of clutch materials www.phoenixfriction.com/t-clutch-materials-explained.aspx the #4 Kevlar one is most likely the EBC kit (para-aramid fibers sound familiar) ... and explains why they need those beefier springs than stock ... so if the SRC kit is made of aramid fibers (as they say it is) then what's unclear is why they would recommend that clutch material for racing ... racing would want to use a ceramic material ... I think EBC is having a lend of the truth with the "Street Racer" part ... lots of material here for your awesome vids Matt.
thats for cars (dry clutches), the materials used in dry clutch friction discs are close to those used in brake pads which makes sense when you consider the similarity of the applications - friction material being clamped against dry steel. like that ducati friction disc matt showed in the dry clutch video, if you look close you can see what appears to be sintered metal glinting in the light.
for wet clutches, oem's almost universally use a cork type material for the friction discs.
ive always figured 'kevlar' aftermarket clutches to be mostly a gimmick. years ago, tried a barnett kevlar clutch kit, it was nearly the best waste of money i'd ever spent lol. bit great for maybe the first couple of hundred miles (just road riding, no drag racing), and then went to shite pretty quickly. not like the oem clutches which can easily do 30K+ miles of normal riding.
" racing would want to use a ceramic material"
The bulk of the material is paper and cork fibres with the addition of kevlar
Aight my bad. Found this writeup on 3 basic wet clutch options, Rubber/Cork, Kevlar & Carbon and discussion re coefficient of friction ... www.quora.com/What-are-the-materials-used-for-making-motorcycle-Clutch-plate ...
Jesus at bottom right quadrant
Yer not supposed to give it away ya tool.
Yeah ya TOOL!
Are you saying Fucking Nora or Fuckin Horror? And, if the former, who's Nora?
An old friend - and yes its Nora
The guy should pick up his feet before he has to find them first.
twisted
1