@@HardwareCanucks We're Canadian I'm 155 lbs 5' 5" I can run a kilometre pretty quickly A bag of milk has four 1L bags And we bake bread with a few cups of flour We mix up our units ALL THE TIME
@@ulamss5 its referring to the fact that the 8xxx series from AMD does not bring meaningful improvements (if any) over the 7xxx series, I saw benchmarks where they perform within 2% of each other.
TBF, they have an NPU. What does it matter now? Absolutely nothing. It's like ray-tracing for the RTX 2000 series, in that it's still underpowered and has piss-poor adoption.
@@deeomayall the fact I had forgotten about the NPU shows how important it is 😂. But yeah, will probably come in handy in a couple of years, but at that point I wonder what 40TOPS will be able to do. Didn't intel already announce 100TOPS or something? And AMD won't stay behind... First gen products will become hugely underpowered real fast
Hey guys. Small correction. At 5:00 the arrow is mistakenly pointing towards the USB 3.2 Gen 2 port and NOT the USB 4 port. The USB 4 port is on the RIGHT in that image.
@@raminpro9765 by the way i tried to find any temp test and battery life for i9 laptop and i could not find it. is that really hot? almost no videos may be intel take them down?
@@goodstan1260 under 10 loop cinebench in new asus G16 intel cpu reach 110* and performance drop near 50% ,,,, intel think with change name and add more core its bad architecture solve
How many years has it been since the last time I saw a real serious comparison between CPUs of the same tier and generation ? It's more informative and much more objective than the hundred of videos comparing Ryzen 7 and i9.
I just bought the Intel Zenbook for $799 from Best Buy. So you CAN pick this laptop up for much less than even the recommended Ryzen 7000 series laptops. Expect sales around Father's Day/Graduation day again.
Enjoyed this, a good comparison. Interesting to see the potential differences. It's sad, that depending on your laptop you're still never going to truly know if you bought the right one 😅. Great advice at the end too!
Great stuff really! I didn't want to buy a new laptop even though I am in great need, so I had my company doing it for me. I almost went for the Ryzen here but ended up with Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 Ultra i7 155H. So far I am still waiting for it, and the day I never thought would come is getting closer where I am replacing my Zenbook 13 with Intel i7 8565u.
the one thing I dont understand is that all these AMD models here in western EU max out at 16GB RAM. The intel ones go up to 32GB. Both zenbooks and yogas. They seem to artificially handicap AMD models for prosumers to sell them Intel laptops. I really wanted the AMD Yoga with 32GB. Strange no youtuber seems to talk about this, Im pretty sure the RAM is worlwide.
@@andyH_England thats really strange considering last years chips had 32gb options and its basically the same chips. I also dont want to believe that it happened because of 5600MTs vs 6400MTs
It seems manufacturers position AMD laptops at lower price points than Intel’s. They strip RAM, display resolution and sometimes the finishing materials to position the two otherwise similar products at clearly separate price points. I too would prefer they offered fully specd AMD models.
Watch Just Josh review. This review is not honest. Just Josh is very transparent about power usage for each task, benchmark, battery life. You will be surprised.
@@nhanNguyen-wo8fyit is honest. People forget that it's not just CPU that makes a difference but also optimisation. You can have the most efficient CPUs but if a company doesn't optimise for it, it's basically just running battery like wild.
@@joelconolly5574 Hardware Canuck just carefully manipulates viewer. HC just shows power usage in 1 Blender task without any performance number take the ultra7 average is 33W, ryzen 7 is 41W. From then on, assuming that the ultra7 ran at 33W, ryzen7 at 41W in any test, and of course, it's not true. Bad luck for them. Just Josh make the same comparison review before them and show power usage for each task.
This video shows a number of things; AMD is WAY FASTER than Intel at lower wattage. Cinebench is the most favorable benchmark to Intel (and therefore really shouldn't be used, because it doesn't have anything close to real world performance today), and that Intel NEEDS to have 60+Watt in order to perform well. Almost every benchmark that you show Intel performing well in; is just QuickSync Video GPU rendering/Encoding. I think you are very critical of AMD in saying that Intel has caught up.... Intel's Meteor Lake is decent... and the 8000 series is just 7000 series again... but AMD is so much better at lower wattage which is what you actually want to do with a laptop.
Same observation, hoping it's not intentional but @Hardware Canucks is missing one of the most relevant performance metric for this laptop segment: efficiency. Highlightig Intel's battery life "advantage" over AMD but using its limited power as a justification for lower performance in the Zenbook... needs some more nuances at the very least. Comparing AMD at 63W is >50% more power, for what seems like roughly
@@filou7171 Yes, and AMD has done it again now with their next generation. That's even faster. So honestly Intel has definitely not caught up. We have to see what happens with the next generation and if it actually runs at low wattage and Temps.
On the Yoga Pro's the memory on the Intel is actually technically ''faster'', Although the AMD set is tighter, 6400MT/s cl50 = 15.6 nano seconds, and the 7467MT/s cl64 = 17.1 nano seconds. To give you a reference my DDR4 4600MT/s CL18 = 7.8 Nano seconds. I know that DDR5 is double the bandwidth, but my DDR4 would do 2 transfers in less time than the 7467MT/s DDR5 would take to do 1, does that make my DDR4 ''faster'' than this DDR5? Also I know they seem to get away with slower timings on laptop ram, because for my sons laptop, it was a hunt to find 32gb kit of DDR4 3200MT/s CL16, most are CL22, CL16 = 10 nano seconds CL22 = 13.75 Nano seconds. I found 2 kits, tightest was, 1 kit from Mushkin, Redline (CL16,18-18-38) and the other was, 1 kit from T.Force, Zeus (CL16,20-20-40). My son got the Mushkin, and my mothers laptop got the T.Force, their identical, but I know the Mushkin are technically better lol. Always look past just the MT/s speed, and use a latency calculator.
I agree with looking for discounts on pre-2024 stock, except for Asus Vivo and Zenbook OLED touch models. The touch screen crosshatching is weirdly pronounced on those screens.
The ASUS' AMD bias isn't surprising, knowing they're the only ones so far selling full AMD laptops worldwide and using the "AMD Advantage" label. Their pricing is really crap though, it's unaffordable in most of Europe for the performance you get, to the point even going for RTX 3060 laptops is viable against a 7600S laptop because you'd be paying twice more for the 7600S and not getting any "advantage" (except battery on idle).
Very thorough testing, well explained and represented with graphs. Not only that but actual useful advice in the end to the consumer. This is top notch content!
The arrow markers at 5:10 for the AMD Zenbook are pointing to the wrong ports when describing which port offers which spec. The USB icons for 40 gig and power are aligned to the left of the port they are describing. You can literally see physical differences in the cheaper 3.2 port and the 4.0 port from how they are integrated into the chassis
OK cool, but I miss a very important information. Was all this testing done, when the devices were plugged in or not? (Of course excluding the battery benchmark)
Great to see mike reviewing laptops too! And good for intel to finally catch up, even if it takes 2 years 😂 I guess already by the end of the year we'll get zen 5 so the wait for new stuff shouldn't take that long ❤
Well those horrible battery life on AMD is due to buggy power management drivers. They simply push lot of power on light and medium load pushing the thermals to far 95C and sustained workloads takes a significant frequency drop. Usually uninstalling it restores the correct power+frequency scaling for better battery life.
On the CPU side. The GPU (Arc in them) is buggy as hell and has a lot of drivers issue in the games. Can't even open major games like Doom, Warzone and so on. If someone wants games as well they should forget about this Intel Ultra chips with just Arc inside them.
Regarding the gradual clockspeed decrease on the zenbook with intel, asus hasn t done anything to address it in the past FIVE years. I have a 2019 zenbook ux434 with an i7 10510u, and the same behaviour happens. It starts at 30w turbo, which naturally decreases when it switches to PL1 (15w), then it slowly goes down to around 8w, sometimes even 7 when rerunning cinebench, and temperatures are around 65C. The fix is either using throttlestop or using linux which is way more consistent.
This is a great video, as it really shows an unbiased view of Intel vs AMD in laptops, and surprisingly Intel now neck and neck, if not slightly ahead of AMD. The ONLY complaint I have with the video is the ending, first is that Meteor Lake (Core Ultra) and Ryzen 8000 laptops are now on deep discount so your recommendation of buying 2023 isnt the best, the second issue with it is that Lunar Lake comes out in September and Zen 5 in late July (more like August for shipping), so next gen is actually much closer than 2025. Still a great video tho.
Thank you so much! These are exactly the laptops I wanted to buy, so this comparison came at the perfect time. Hope to see you do the same next year ;)
@TG04 I just bought an Android tablet for uni. My problem was that my current AMD Ryzen 5500U Lenovo laptop has a broken hinge. So I only use it at home. That solved my problem.
You pointed out the platform bias problem for Asus - but I'd like to see the same graphs for the Lenovo laptops as well. The benchmarks included seem to settle it, but maybe you could publish/include quickly somewhere in the video the power graphs and temperature graphs for the Lenovo systems for us to pause and look at it if we want.
Picked up a Lenovo ideapad 5 2in1 with the 8845hs and 780m graphics for 650 at microcenter, 16g of ram and a 1tb ssd, seems like it was a great deal to me!
Interesting comparison. I note this was for the latest Intel and AMD H series processors. Is the same true for the latest Intel and AMD U series processors? A saw video comparing Minisforum V3 with AMD 7 8840U Vs Microsoft Surface Pro 10 with Intel Core Ultra 7 165U. AMD outperformed Intel especially with respect to graphics (+40%), and Intel needed more watts (44W) when matching AMD performance (31W).
I just graduated and will major in computer science. I was thinking the zenbook 14(amd or ryzen) or the hp pavillion plus 14 ryzen 8845. I also do a little gaming on the side. Which do u recommend?
Could you include more comprehensive benchmarks like geekbench or spec? These should deliver a more complete picture for use cases not covered and are better for a general benchmark than cinebench
do you guys hate it when manufacturers max out only one port like 5:33 ? if it's a usb-a (on a desktop, for example), i want it to be 3.2 x4, not 3.2 x1 and 3.1 x3. if it's a usb-c, it has to be 10gbps x2 or 40gbps x2, not 40gbps x1 and 10gbps x1. same with m2 slots, lan ports (on a motherboard). am i the only one like this? i just don't want to think which one to use. lol. that's not crazy right?
It has to be a cost thing, but it is very annoying. I wonder how much it really is though, you would think it would only be like another $2 or $4. It must be a fair amount more though. since they could just say we are only buying USB 3.2 x 2 minimum because of Economies of Scale and be done with it. Let other lower end products deal with it. IOT and the like, many other devices still are fine with lower end USB. Still millions and millions worldwide, but not really needed on 13th Gen or AMD 7000 series laptops or higher. Desktops should just have one USB 2.0 A port ( keyboard / mouse ) in case there is interference for something since USB 3.0 can cause that for some wireless mouse and keyboards for instance (Logitech). Desktops now need to come with one 10G LAN port ( GbE ), preferably 10G SFP+ to save on heat and electricity. I hear more and more places are going over 2.5 G internet for the home, some have 8G and 10G, let alone more people should be doing their own backups at home which you would really need 10G LAN ports then if you want fast internal speed in your home or apt. Since what you "purchase" isn't really yours apparently. Having your own NAS or small server for some self hosted things may be the way to go. It is a PITA, but this most likely ALL has to do with the PCIe lanes on the motherboard and the CPU and what they can handle, they probably just can't handle that much. Just like what I found out like a month ago, a Dell Precision workstation laptops since 8th Gen Intel's have had the capability to have 3 NVMe's in there, yes Three!! Like what WTH. So if they could of done that back then, maybe even 7th Gen, haven't looked at 6th, but the 9th, 10th and 11th for sure can as long as it's a big enough screen. Can't expect it if it's a Dell Precision 14" screen since not enough room. So they are basically using server grade mother boards which have more PCIe lanes which means it CAN be done. If the mfg's wanted to they could all say, this is THEE standard, no BS.
different ports are prices differently. so they have to balance it out. but imagine the thinkpad x1 latest model. it has multiple thunderbolt and consistently all of their ports are latest.
wait yoga pro series are using ryzen 8845 hs which is meant for higher power while zenbook in using 8840hs which is for lower power usage so this comparison of zenbook(amd) and lenovo yoga(amd) is not done properly
@suriyas1456 8840U or HS are extremely similar; there's nearly no difference, so either is a solid choice in 2024. But when it comes to 13th and 14th intel's series it's a mess - every chip above 65W has serious flaw (they have f up issue with micro code that is degrading the chip and ultimately making it physically damaged) so I wouldn't bother with any intel's chip in 13th and 14th generation. Overall, right now, the AMD is the way to go, be it 7th or a specially 8000 series.
Great and important video. Could you please do a video on Intel Arc Graphics vs GeForce RTX... essentially something like the samsung galaxy book 4 intel arc graphics vs asus zenbook 14 rtx 3070.
Are you sure about the Lenovo Yoga 7i Pro 14" 14IMH9 has an extra ssd slot? Not seeing it on their spec page. Just one 2242 slot. As does videos of the opening of it.
Great video! I have an itch to go into one of those current laptops on a convertible platform because they already are ultra versatile.. currently on an envy x360 OLED with an i5 1135 g7 and while it works fine, it lacks some things to be a truly versatile machine (just 8GB of ram and the graphics are not that great) I'm going to wait for amd strix point mobile, it will get a signigicant architecture in all 3 compute core units (CPU NPU and GPU) as well as the introduction of efficiency cores... seems to be worth the wait big time, so i think you are absolutely spot on with your recommendation.
most of the meteor lake architecture isn't new tbh, it's mostly their packaging method and IGPU that changed. the CPU itself only has fairly minor changes. imo the real improvements will come with arrow lake which on desktop supposedly has a 25% IPC gain and something stupid like 40% performance gain even after removing hyperthreading
@fantasypvp Yeah I know all that. It's using "chiplets" in the worst way. Just for packaging. The 2 small cores that save all the idle power is the only decent thing. I think Arrow Lake might bust given some of the core designs that are proposed if they can't get their cpu to work at 15w with sustained clocks. But maybe they'll get their garbage power consumption figured out
@karl5010 Don't think 40% will be the average gain, although it will definitely happen in a few areas like Multi-Core. Some official sources have said that Zen 5 is expected to bring around ~10% IPC uplift(although we need to wait till release day to say thats actually true. Arrow Lake performance gain should more likely be something like 20-30% in most scenarios, maybe more in select scenarios, similar to what Alder Lake was. They have a chance of beating Zen 5 in performance(due to using a superior node), but again, only time will tell if Arrow Lake is a monster or a failure.
Going off your advice in the video, I found this laptop on sale at a big box retailer for $999. Thoughts?: Lenovo Slim 7 Pro X 14.5" Touchscreen Laptop - AMD Ryzen 9 6900HS - GeForce RTX 3050 (4GB VRAM) - 120Hz 3072 x 1920 Display - 32GB RAM - 1TB SSD - Model: 82V20003US I need to run poorly optimized, processor and memory intensive apps that deal with large datasets up to 10GB each. I value a small durable chassis, good battery life (when I’m not taxing the CPU/GPU with heavy tasks), and a high resolution screen to view large graphs and charts with minimal scrolling.
Fantastic review!! are you going to compare the Asus Roc Zephrus? Would i be better to wait for the ryzen 9 and Ultra 9 from Asus and lenovo and if you were to buy a laptop which brand would you choose between these two. Thx.
2023 Ryzen 7000 with USB4 is a freaking nightmare. Driver and graphical issues completely breaking the whole experience. I have such a laptop, and I could not disagree more with your recommendation. The whole reason why I watched this video is to see wether Intel is a good option in 2024, and it is. So I am going back to Intel and TB and leaving the USB4 and Ryzen GPU mess behind.
I think that your suggest laptops are disingenuous, they're zen 3 laptops which are almost two years old at this point. They're effectively a 6800U and a 5800u, since the 7730 doesn't even have the 680m inside, it uses Vega.
Everytime i watch windows laptop reviews and comp on youtube the more it just pushes me to apple. Sick of this nonesense with amd and intel and the myriad of distros. Its too much, decision paralysis. I sometimes wonder how much sales suffer for windows laptops because because dont want a phd in learning what is what with cpus or setups or form factors etc. i want simple. Dont even get me started to copilot pcs with NPU nonsense that “might” be useful in the future when everything just hets processed on server in the cloud anyways.
Thank you for the amazing review of the current mess of a laptop market! Just wanted to point out that the 7000 Ryzen series laptops that were recommended, they sneakily use zen 3 architecture from 6000 series. I don't think buying them even on such discount is a good idea. Recently got a lenovo ideapad slim 3i for my friend mostly for school. I was torn between ryzen 5 7530U or intel core 5 150U. Ultimately went with the latter after doing a ton of research and it has been great so far!
You are right about problems with the ARC drivers. Forza Horizon 4 crashes on every Intel Core Ultra + ARC laptop I've tried (Zenbooks & Vivobooks). No problems with the AMD-powered Asus Zenbook 14 OLED.
This could be due to memory gearing. Intel is transparent with their specs wherein 64GB and above would lead to their IMC running at 6400 speeds. Meanwhile. AMD doesn't publish their gearing table that I've seen so it could be the higher spec LPDDR5x-7467 is only available at 16GB and below. Butt hats just supposition on my part.
@@HardwareCanucks I think Snapdragon is best what would happen this year to laptop market, i'm ultra book user 13-14-14.5 at max. And without Snap they wont improve anything , i waited 24 to purchase 8000 series and this is weak, may be if they release zen5 this year i would purchase it. Something interesting should happen this year , crossing fingers for Snapdragon competition
The turn-around isn't without problems though. Intel stock price has crashed twice after he took office(Although they are mostly attributed to outside factors or past intel mistakes). 14th gen desktop was dogshit, and Meteor Lake did not really beat Raptor Lake in performance(even loses in single-core in a few cases). But on the other hand, things like Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, ARC Alchemist and update to their iGPUs, 5 Nodes in 4 years, 18A and 20A nodes coming by 2025, new AI Accelerators like Gaudi 3 have all happened under Gelsinger. Thats not to say that NONE of what I listed were free of problems, far from it actually. But, in general, they were quite well recieved, and showed that Intel is willing to change and restructure their company, and they also have shown to no longer have the 'we are the best' mindset, and realize that they have fallen behind technologically, but are still trying to change and regain the number one spot. Now all Intel has to do is to keep following their ambitious plans, minimize delays, actually try and innovate a bit more, and not make anymore major fuck ups(Like SkyLake Refreshes, staying away from Mobile Phones etc.). If they do those, Intel can properly hope to be one of the most technologically advanced companies by the end of the decade.
I got a R7 7840u Yoga Slim 6 for €650 (that's after the insane 25% VAT my country has too). It works excellent as a school laptop and can do light to even medium gaming on the side.
This is such a wrong review... Yes, the evaluation should be done at the same power configuration, but remember those are ultrabooks and neither one of those devices can sustain 63W. Do the same power configuration, but with let's say 30W in place and you will see that AMD will be ahead of Intel. It's all about performance at those lower wattages.
Didn't see Intel came back this way I'm waiting for X Elite/Plus But Intel is really (finally) fighting back. I saw leaks about Lunar Lake being better than Meteor Lake while using less power. Can't wait to see it in action
It will have some marginal improvements. The way that things works nowadays is to always look for the next gen, which means that companies only focus on getting the goodies to the new upcoming products (logic of profits unfortunately)
Add international measurements (kg alongside the pounds) for future videos, please
Good suggestion. Will do!
@@HardwareCanucksThank you
@@HardwareCanucks We're Canadian
I'm 155 lbs
5' 5"
I can run a kilometre pretty quickly
A bag of milk has four 1L bags
And we bake bread with a few cups of flour
We mix up our units ALL THE TIME
@@bkhleung Not wrong lol, but when it comes weighing people I'd say it can be both, but with groceries, produce etc, it'll definitely be in lbs lol.
@@NootNoot.Instead of lbs you could royal everything. "Royal amount of flour"
Intel: *renames 13000 series as '14th gen'*
AMD: WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!
I'm pretty sure it went the other way. AMD skipped 4000 and 6000, depending on whether you count laptops.
@@ulamss5 its referring to the fact that the 8xxx series from AMD does not bring meaningful improvements (if any) over the 7xxx series, I saw benchmarks where they perform within 2% of each other.
TBF, they have an NPU. What does it matter now? Absolutely nothing. It's like ray-tracing for the RTX 2000 series, in that it's still underpowered and has piss-poor adoption.
@@deeomayall the fact I had forgotten about the NPU shows how important it is 😂. But yeah, will probably come in handy in a couple of years, but at that point I wonder what 40TOPS will be able to do. Didn't intel already announce 100TOPS or something? And AMD won't stay behind... First gen products will become hugely underpowered real fast
Raptor lake > Raptor lake refresh;
Phoenix > Hawk Point;
Now this make sence
Finally some good charts and comparisons when conparing laptops. I like how you test the battery life. Keep up the good work and keep innovating
Hey guys. Small correction. At 5:00 the arrow is mistakenly pointing towards the USB 3.2 Gen 2 port and NOT the USB 4 port. The USB 4 port is on the RIGHT in that image.
1:35 the names/images are flipped
temprature you dont analyse,,,, temp. after 10 loop cinebench important for us,,,,all new intel very hot,throttle
@@raminpro9765 by the way i tried to find any temp test and battery life for i9 laptop and i could not find it. is that really hot? almost no videos may be intel take them down?
@@goodstan1260 under 10 loop cinebench in new asus G16 intel cpu reach 110* and performance drop near 50% ,,,, intel think with change name and add more core its bad architecture solve
@@raminpro9765 you saved me because i prepared to purchase it, what would you recommend?
I didn't skip the ad lol, gj that was well made :)
Recommendations were EXACTLY ON POINT , Well done 👍
He's lowkey the king of comparison videos
How many years has it been since the last time I saw a real serious comparison between CPUs of the same tier and generation ?
It's more informative and much more objective than the hundred of videos comparing Ryzen 7 and i9.
Good review. Glad to see good competition from intel on the battery life front finally
Beautiful video. Thank you very much. Watched with pleasure.
You have my sympathy in testing laptops. No wonder one brand have better battery life if it also throttles.
They won't throttle during video playback lol, very small load...
@@K543he just said they were tested at high loads when they noticed the throttling
Great video, great listen. Thank you Ser
I just bought the Intel Zenbook for $799 from Best Buy. So you CAN pick this laptop up for much less than even the recommended Ryzen 7000 series laptops. Expect sales around Father's Day/Graduation day again.
Enjoyed this, a good comparison. Interesting to see the potential differences. It's sad, that depending on your laptop you're still never going to truly know if you bought the right one 😅. Great advice at the end too!
Great stuff really!
I didn't want to buy a new laptop even though I am in great need, so I had my company doing it for me. I almost went for the Ryzen here but ended up with Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 Ultra i7 155H.
So far I am still waiting for it, and the day I never thought would come is getting closer where I am replacing my Zenbook 13 with Intel i7 8565u.
the one thing I dont understand is that all these AMD models here in western EU max out at 16GB RAM. The intel ones go up to 32GB. Both zenbooks and yogas. They seem to artificially handicap AMD models for prosumers to sell them Intel laptops. I really wanted the AMD Yoga with 32GB. Strange no youtuber seems to talk about this, Im pretty sure the RAM is worlwide.
Another comment suggested that this may be due to memory bandwidth making 32GB on some AMD chips unavailable at higher megahertz.
@@andyH_England thats really strange considering last years chips had 32gb options and its basically the same chips. I also dont want to believe that it happened because of 5600MTs vs 6400MTs
@@Burbanana Maybe AMD reduced the bandwidth to save money? I have no idea, but I suspect the reason is technical rather than conspiratorial.
Same on the US Lenovo site, only one option, 16GB.
It seems manufacturers position AMD laptops at lower price points than Intel’s. They strip RAM, display resolution and sometimes the finishing materials to position the two otherwise similar products at clearly separate price points. I too would prefer they offered fully specd AMD models.
I had obviously seen that Meteor lake had IMPROVED battery life over older Intel CPU'S, but not better than Ryzen?! WILD. 😅👌
Watch Just Josh review. This review is not honest.
Just Josh is very transparent about power usage for each task, benchmark, battery life. You will be surprised.
It's basically the same but Intel wins in pushing it up a bit more.
@@nhanNguyen-wo8fyit is honest. People forget that it's not just CPU that makes a difference but also optimisation. You can have the most efficient CPUs but if a company doesn't optimise for it, it's basically just running battery like wild.
@@joelconolly5574 No, it's totally different. Cinebench 2024 show ryzen 7 8840hs achieved 24 points per watt while Ultra7 achieved 21 points per Watt.
@@joelconolly5574 Hardware Canuck just carefully manipulates viewer.
HC just shows power usage in 1 Blender task without any performance number take the ultra7 average is 33W, ryzen 7 is 41W.
From then on, assuming that the ultra7 ran at 33W, ryzen7 at 41W in any test, and of course, it's not true.
Bad luck for them. Just Josh make the same comparison review before them and show power usage for each task.
This video shows a number of things; AMD is WAY FASTER than Intel at lower wattage. Cinebench is the most favorable benchmark to Intel (and therefore really shouldn't be used, because it doesn't have anything close to real world performance today), and that Intel NEEDS to have 60+Watt in order to perform well.
Almost every benchmark that you show Intel performing well in; is just QuickSync Video GPU rendering/Encoding.
I think you are very critical of AMD in saying that Intel has caught up.... Intel's Meteor Lake is decent... and the 8000 series is just 7000 series again... but AMD is so much better at lower wattage which is what you actually want to do with a laptop.
Same observation, hoping it's not intentional but @Hardware Canucks is missing one of the most relevant performance metric for this laptop segment: efficiency. Highlightig Intel's battery life "advantage" over AMD but using its limited power as a justification for lower performance in the Zenbook... needs some more nuances at the very least. Comparing AMD at 63W is >50% more power, for what seems like roughly
@@filou7171 Yes, and AMD has done it again now with their next generation. That's even faster. So honestly Intel has definitely not caught up. We have to see what happens with the next generation and if it actually runs at low wattage and Temps.
On the Yoga Pro's the memory on the Intel is actually technically ''faster'', Although the AMD set is tighter, 6400MT/s cl50 = 15.6 nano seconds, and the 7467MT/s cl64 = 17.1 nano seconds.
To give you a reference my DDR4 4600MT/s CL18 = 7.8 Nano seconds.
I know that DDR5 is double the bandwidth, but my DDR4 would do 2 transfers in less time than the 7467MT/s DDR5 would take to do 1, does that make my DDR4 ''faster'' than this DDR5?
Also I know they seem to get away with slower timings on laptop ram, because for my sons laptop, it was a hunt to find 32gb kit of DDR4 3200MT/s CL16, most are CL22,
CL16 = 10 nano seconds CL22 = 13.75 Nano seconds.
I found 2 kits, tightest was, 1 kit from Mushkin, Redline (CL16,18-18-38) and the other was, 1 kit from T.Force, Zeus (CL16,20-20-40).
My son got the Mushkin, and my mothers laptop got the T.Force, their identical, but I know the Mushkin are technically better lol.
Always look past just the MT/s speed, and use a latency calculator.
Best comparison of Intel and AMD on laptops I have ever seen, excellent work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent deep dive into the importance of hardware and platform context around laptop reviews. Subscribed!
Hey there is a mistake in 1:34, the logos are not matching the names correctly, the 7i has the AMD logo when it should be the intel one.
10:34, How did lenovo AMD model gone lower even if its jigher wattage.
I agree with looking for discounts on pre-2024 stock, except for Asus Vivo and Zenbook OLED touch models. The touch screen crosshatching is weirdly pronounced on those screens.
The ASUS' AMD bias isn't surprising, knowing they're the only ones so far selling full AMD laptops worldwide and using the "AMD Advantage" label. Their pricing is really crap though, it's unaffordable in most of Europe for the performance you get, to the point even going for RTX 3060 laptops is viable against a 7600S laptop because you'd be paying twice more for the 7600S and not getting any "advantage" (except battery on idle).
Asus is notoriously expensive indeed. ROG Zephyrus latest release has soldered RAM.. not upgradeable.. despite the price tag
Very thorough testing, well explained and represented with graphs. Not only that but actual useful advice in the end to the consumer. This is top notch content!
Fr!
Thanks!
The arrow markers at 5:10 for the AMD Zenbook are pointing to the wrong ports when describing which port offers which spec. The USB icons for 40 gig and power are aligned to the left of the port they are describing. You can literally see physical differences in the cheaper 3.2 port and the 4.0 port from how they are integrated into the chassis
Thanks for noticing. I'll make sure there's a pinned comment.
@@HardwareCanucksYou forgot about the pinned comment
OK cool, but I miss a very important information.
Was all this testing done, when the devices were plugged in or not? (Of course excluding the battery benchmark)
Great to see mike reviewing laptops too! And good for intel to finally catch up, even if it takes 2 years 😂
I guess already by the end of the year we'll get zen 5 so the wait for new stuff shouldn't take that long ❤
Well those horrible battery life on AMD is due to buggy power management drivers. They simply push lot of power on light and medium load pushing the thermals to far 95C and sustained workloads takes a significant frequency drop. Usually uninstalling it restores the correct power+frequency scaling for better battery life.
How did they manage to bottle those drivers?
@@israellewis5484 those are made by Asus that deviate from AMD recommended power and frequency values
So meteor lake did improved a lot.
On the CPU side. The GPU (Arc in them) is buggy as hell and has a lot of drivers issue in the games. Can't even open major games like Doom, Warzone and so on. If someone wants games as well they should forget about this Intel Ultra chips with just Arc inside them.
@@mariussm7797 True, Ryzen does still have the edge in gaming (although Intel does put up a surprisingly decent fight)
I was missing this kinf of videos. Great!
Appreciate the time it took to benchmark and edit this video ❤
Regarding the gradual clockspeed decrease on the zenbook with intel, asus hasn t done anything to address it in the past FIVE years. I have a 2019 zenbook ux434 with an i7 10510u, and the same behaviour happens. It starts at 30w turbo, which naturally decreases when it switches to PL1 (15w), then it slowly goes down to around 8w, sometimes even 7 when rerunning cinebench, and temperatures are around 65C. The fix is either using throttlestop or using linux which is way more consistent.
At 11:44 not sure how amd zenbook at 41w gets 132.6 fps while the amd yoga at 63w only gets 118 fps ?!
This is a great video, as it really shows an unbiased view of Intel vs AMD in laptops, and surprisingly Intel now neck and neck, if not slightly ahead of AMD.
The ONLY complaint I have with the video is the ending, first is that Meteor Lake (Core Ultra) and Ryzen 8000 laptops are now on deep discount so your recommendation of buying 2023 isnt the best, the second issue with it is that Lunar Lake comes out in September and Zen 5 in late July (more like August for shipping), so next gen is actually much closer than 2025. Still a great video tho.
For an extra $1000, Intel beats out AMD for the first 10 minutes of you turning on your laptop, and then it's just a steep fall off a cliff.
Very informative and interesting comparison, thanks 👍
the asus with intel cpu has probably an overheating vrm. that doesn't necessarily show in the cpu temperature chart, but leads to throtteling anyway.
Thank you so much! These are exactly the laptops I wanted to buy, so this comparison came at the perfect time. Hope to see you do the same next year ;)
are u buying the intel or amd version?
@TG04 I just bought an Android tablet for uni. My problem was that my current AMD Ryzen 5500U Lenovo laptop has a broken hinge. So I only use it at home. That solved my problem.
@@arian2791 I think I'm getting the i7 version then need a thin and light for college and will be having atleast 4 internships a year so yea
@TG04 Sounds good. I had many driver issues with my AMD laptop, so Intel is the better choice. Just don't cheap out on the hinge haha
@@arian2791 i won't lol I was using the hp pavillion 14x 360 for the past 4 years
You pointed out the platform bias problem for Asus - but I'd like to see the same graphs for the Lenovo laptops as well. The benchmarks included seem to settle it, but maybe you could publish/include quickly somewhere in the video the power graphs and temperature graphs for the Lenovo systems for us to pause and look at it if we want.
A new operating system has become INEVITABLE
Picked up a Lenovo ideapad 5 2in1 with the 8845hs and 780m graphics for 650 at microcenter, 16g of ram and a 1tb ssd, seems like it was a great deal to me!
Thanks for this detailed explanation, extremely helpful. I'mma pass on this gen and try to wait for next year.
The best comparison video ever. Thanks sir🎉🎉
Thank you man... Laptop realm is confusing and you make a huge help here
Interesting comparison. I note this was for the latest Intel and AMD H series processors. Is the same true for the latest Intel and AMD U series processors? A saw video comparing Minisforum V3 with AMD 7 8840U Vs Microsoft Surface Pro 10 with Intel Core Ultra 7 165U. AMD outperformed Intel especially with respect to graphics (+40%), and Intel needed more watts (44W) when matching AMD performance (31W).
thanks for this wonderful information... thumbs up to your channel
The lengths you guys went to make the test as apple to apple as possible is truly amazing. This is true testing. Respect!!
Keep up the good work
has the power output on intel zenbooks been fixed or has asus aknowledged it?
Doubtful
I just graduated and will major in computer science. I was thinking the zenbook 14(amd or ryzen) or the hp pavillion plus 14 ryzen 8845. I also do a little gaming on the side. Which do u recommend?
Back and forth I returned my g16 that had the ultra 9 in it for the g14 with the ryzen 9. Performance of the g14 is just as good as the g16
Could you include more comprehensive benchmarks like geekbench or spec? These should deliver a more complete picture for use cases not covered and are better for a general benchmark than cinebench
do you guys hate it when manufacturers max out only one port like 5:33 ?
if it's a usb-a (on a desktop, for example), i want it to be 3.2 x4, not 3.2 x1 and 3.1 x3.
if it's a usb-c, it has to be 10gbps x2 or 40gbps x2, not 40gbps x1 and 10gbps x1.
same with m2 slots, lan ports (on a motherboard).
am i the only one like this? i just don't want to think which one to use. lol. that's not crazy right?
It has to be a cost thing, but it is very annoying. I wonder how much it really is though, you would think it would only be like another $2 or $4. It must be a fair amount more though. since they could just say we are only buying USB 3.2 x 2 minimum because of Economies of Scale and be done with it. Let other lower end products deal with it. IOT and the like, many other devices still are fine with lower end USB. Still millions and millions worldwide, but not really needed on 13th Gen or AMD 7000 series laptops or higher. Desktops should just have one USB 2.0 A port ( keyboard / mouse ) in case there is interference for something since USB 3.0 can cause that for some wireless mouse and keyboards for instance (Logitech). Desktops now need to come with one 10G LAN port ( GbE ), preferably 10G SFP+ to save on heat and electricity. I hear more and more places are going over 2.5 G internet for the home, some have 8G and 10G, let alone more people should be doing their own backups at home which you would really need 10G LAN ports then if you want fast internal speed in your home or apt. Since what you "purchase" isn't really yours apparently. Having your own NAS or small server for some self hosted things may be the way to go. It is a PITA, but this most likely ALL has to do with the PCIe lanes on the motherboard and the CPU and what they can handle, they probably just can't handle that much. Just like what I found out like a month ago, a Dell Precision workstation laptops since 8th Gen Intel's have had the capability to have 3 NVMe's in there, yes Three!! Like what WTH. So if they could of done that back then, maybe even 7th Gen, haven't looked at 6th, but the 9th, 10th and 11th for sure can as long as it's a big enough screen. Can't expect it if it's a Dell Precision 14" screen since not enough room. So they are basically using server grade mother boards which have more PCIe lanes which means it CAN be done. If the mfg's wanted to they could all say, this is THEE standard, no BS.
different ports are prices differently. so they have to balance it out. but imagine the thinkpad x1 latest model. it has multiple thunderbolt and consistently all of their ports are latest.
These AI bullshid ...
Basically Microsoft stated that current NPU is just weak and can only process Webcam effect or other image processing.
Just got a zenbook duo 2024 with a core ultra 9. That thing is insane and It gets like 12 hours of battery with 120hz high brightness
Nice! Isn't zen book the one with two displays?
How about temperatures and noise?
That's zenbook duo @@Shadowzz.
Dayum. My yoga pro 9i with the same CPU gets like 5hrs
@@jeffersonmp4 dead silent, runs a little warm but no overheating. It has two oleds so that was to be expected
Asus Vivobook S 16. Ryzen 9 8945HS vs. Intel Core 9 Ultra 185H. Which one is the better buy
I'm curious as well😢
if it's asus obviously AMD
they are biased
awesome video, thanks for making this accessible!
wait yoga pro series are using ryzen 8845 hs which is meant for higher power while zenbook in using 8840hs which is for lower power usage so this comparison of zenbook(amd) and lenovo yoga(amd) is not done properly
Hey, I purchased a laptop with 8845hs yesterday how does it compare to 13th and 14th gen intel hc CPUs? I m my familiar with amd cpus
@suriyas1456 8840U or HS are extremely similar; there's nearly no difference, so either is a solid choice in 2024. But when it comes to 13th and 14th intel's series it's a mess - every chip above 65W has serious flaw (they have f up issue with micro code that is degrading the chip and ultimately making it physically damaged) so I wouldn't bother with any intel's chip in 13th and 14th generation.
Overall, right now, the AMD is the way to go, be it 7th or a specially 8000 series.
Great and important video. Could you please do a video on Intel Arc Graphics vs GeForce RTX... essentially something like the samsung galaxy book 4 intel arc graphics vs asus zenbook 14 rtx 3070.
Are you sure about the Lenovo Yoga 7i Pro 14" 14IMH9 has an extra ssd slot? Not seeing it on their spec page. Just one 2242 slot. As does videos of the opening of it.
they had a different model with dgpu one both itel and amd but disabled them for the test
Great video! I have an itch to go into one of those current laptops on a convertible platform because they already are ultra versatile.. currently on an envy x360 OLED with an i5 1135 g7 and while it works fine, it lacks some things to be a truly versatile machine (just 8GB of ram and the graphics are not that great)
I'm going to wait for amd strix point mobile, it will get a signigicant architecture in all 3 compute core units (CPU NPU and GPU) as well as the introduction of efficiency cores... seems to be worth the wait big time, so i think you are absolutely spot on with your recommendation.
Asus power management makes a lot of sense if you look at the performance gain by nearly doubling the power.
Kinda sad when a brand new architecture can barely beat a refresh
most of the meteor lake architecture isn't new tbh, it's mostly their packaging method and IGPU that changed. the CPU itself only has fairly minor changes. imo the real improvements will come with arrow lake which on desktop supposedly has a 25% IPC gain and something stupid like 40% performance gain even after removing hyperthreading
@fantasypvp Yeah I know all that. It's using "chiplets" in the worst way. Just for packaging. The 2 small cores that save all the idle power is the only decent thing. I think Arrow Lake might bust given some of the core designs that are proposed if they can't get their cpu to work at 15w with sustained clocks. But maybe they'll get their garbage power consumption figured out
yeah true. At least the good thing is that the battery life is massively improved, which shows that intel does care about higher efficiency now.
@karl5010 Don't think 40% will be the average gain, although it will definitely happen in a few areas like Multi-Core. Some official sources have said that Zen 5 is expected to bring around ~10% IPC uplift(although we need to wait till release day to say thats actually true.
Arrow Lake performance gain should more likely be something like 20-30% in most scenarios, maybe more in select scenarios, similar to what Alder Lake was. They have a chance of beating Zen 5 in performance(due to using a superior node), but again, only time will tell if Arrow Lake is a monster or a failure.
Going off your advice in the video, I found this laptop on sale at a big box retailer for $999. Thoughts?:
Lenovo Slim 7 Pro X 14.5" Touchscreen Laptop - AMD Ryzen 9 6900HS - GeForce RTX 3050 (4GB VRAM) - 120Hz 3072 x 1920 Display - 32GB RAM - 1TB SSD - Model: 82V20003US
I need to run poorly optimized, processor and memory intensive apps that deal with large datasets up to 10GB each. I value a small durable chassis, good battery life (when I’m not taxing the CPU/GPU with heavy tasks), and a high resolution screen to view large graphs and charts with minimal scrolling.
I am thinking of buying a new laptop, but I wonder if I should wait for next year till the new intel cpus are released ... any opinions on that?
Fantastic review!! are you going to compare the Asus Roc Zephrus? Would i be better to wait for the ryzen 9 and Ultra 9 from Asus and lenovo and if you were to buy a laptop which brand would you choose between these two. Thx.
Anyone else sick of AI marketing 😂
2023 Ryzen 7000 with USB4 is a freaking nightmare. Driver and graphical issues completely breaking the whole experience. I have such a laptop, and I could not disagree more with your recommendation. The whole reason why I watched this video is to see wether Intel is a good option in 2024, and it is. So I am going back to Intel and TB and leaving the USB4 and Ryzen GPU mess behind.
Awesome analysis on the topic. Thank you.
8840hs goes with ultra books for lower price, but recent sales make laptops with ultra core 5 a very tempting deal. But it is by no means a 8840hs
Not suprused the i7 has better battery life, you have to do crazy crap in order to get the 7840u/z1 extreme to use less than 10 watts.
Sir would you recommend HP Aero Laptops? Are they good?
8c/16t vs 16c/22t... fair comparison
how do you set laptops to 150 nits for your testing? do you use a light meter ?
The idea of this notebook comparision in the same chassis is awesome. I don’t fully agree with some of your conclusions but you are mostly right
Man thanks for this! I really appreciate this review!
I think that your suggest laptops are disingenuous, they're zen 3 laptops which are almost two years old at this point. They're effectively a 6800U and a 5800u, since the 7730 doesn't even have the 680m inside, it uses Vega.
Really good review and recommendation
Everytime i watch windows laptop reviews and comp on youtube the more it just pushes me to apple. Sick of this nonesense with amd and intel and the myriad of distros. Its too much, decision paralysis. I sometimes wonder how much sales suffer for windows laptops because because dont want a phd in learning what is what with cpus or setups or form factors etc. i want simple. Dont even get me started to copilot pcs with NPU nonsense that “might” be useful in the future when everything just hets processed on server in the cloud anyways.
If you want to pay $200 per 8Gb of ram, Apple is the way to go.
Excelente comparación ! Gracias.
Thank you for the amazing review of the current mess of a laptop market! Just wanted to point out that the 7000 Ryzen series laptops that were recommended, they sneakily use zen 3 architecture from 6000 series. I don't think buying them even on such discount is a good idea. Recently got a lenovo ideapad slim 3i for my friend mostly for school. I was torn between ryzen 5 7530U or intel core 5 150U. Ultimately went with the latter after doing a ton of research and it has been great so far!
You are right about problems with the ARC drivers. Forza Horizon 4 crashes on every Intel Core Ultra + ARC laptop I've tried (Zenbooks & Vivobooks). No problems with the AMD-powered Asus Zenbook 14 OLED.
Q425MA(intel) with 1tb ssd vs UM3406HA(AMD) with 2880 x 1800 120Hz with 512gb ssd , which one is better ?
Amazing review, analysis and recommendations!
Cool Wallpaper. Where can I find it?
Awesome job reviewing these!
The 7000 laptops linked are essentially 6000 series renamed, not REALLY 7000 series which uses 780m igpu. Kind of misleading imo.
I love your fair review, another strange thing is that AMD in 14 size never comes with 32GB only 16GB giving a credit to Intel, which is strange
True... that’s why I’ll be going for Intel probably
@@PlatinAviation im waiting Snapdragon X Elite
@@goodstan1260 yeah, that will be interesting :)
I’m excited for the yoga pro 7 with snapdragon that was leaked a few days ago
This could be due to memory gearing. Intel is transparent with their specs wherein 64GB and above would lead to their IMC running at 6400 speeds. Meanwhile. AMD doesn't publish their gearing table that I've seen so it could be the higher spec LPDDR5x-7467 is only available at 16GB and below. Butt hats just supposition on my part.
@@HardwareCanucks I think Snapdragon is best what would happen this year to laptop market, i'm ultra book user 13-14-14.5 at max. And without Snap they wont improve anything , i waited 24 to purchase 8000 series and this is weak, may be if they release zen5 this year i would purchase it. Something interesting should happen this year , crossing fingers for Snapdragon competition
Every other video I see of this laptop people recommend AMD for battery life.
Dell won't sell a 32gb AMD Laptop! I wonder how much Intel is paying them to NOT DO THIS !?!!?
Damn pat gelsinger really did turn things around like he said he would.
The turn-around isn't without problems though. Intel stock price has crashed twice after he took office(Although they are mostly attributed to outside factors or past intel mistakes). 14th gen desktop was dogshit, and Meteor Lake did not really beat Raptor Lake in performance(even loses in single-core in a few cases).
But on the other hand, things like Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, ARC Alchemist and update to their iGPUs, 5 Nodes in 4 years, 18A and 20A nodes coming by 2025, new AI Accelerators like Gaudi 3 have all happened under Gelsinger. Thats not to say that NONE of what I listed were free of problems, far from it actually. But, in general, they were quite well recieved, and showed that Intel is willing to change and restructure their company, and they also have shown to no longer have the 'we are the best' mindset, and realize that they have fallen behind technologically, but are still trying to change and regain the number one spot.
Now all Intel has to do is to keep following their ambitious plans, minimize delays, actually try and innovate a bit more, and not make anymore major fuck ups(Like SkyLake Refreshes, staying away from Mobile Phones etc.). If they do those, Intel can properly hope to be one of the most technologically advanced companies by the end of the decade.
The best conclusion for this generation is what you said at the end.
Totally agree 👍💯
Laptops are so much too overpriced today. Luckily I never do need one!
I got a R7 7840u Yoga Slim 6 for €650 (that's after the insane 25% VAT my country has too). It works excellent as a school laptop and can do light to even medium gaming on the side.
This is such a wrong review... Yes, the evaluation should be done at the same power configuration, but remember those are ultrabooks and neither one of those devices can sustain 63W. Do the same power configuration, but with let's say 30W in place and you will see that AMD will be ahead of Intel. It's all about performance at those lower wattages.
Didn't see Intel came back this way
I'm waiting for X Elite/Plus
But Intel is really (finally) fighting back. I saw leaks about Lunar Lake being better than Meteor Lake while using less power. Can't wait to see it in action
But what about for Davinci Resolve? AMD isn't a great choice, so would you still recommend the '23 laptop with AMD or a current-gen Intel?
This video sponsored by Intel. You didn't even look at power consumption which Intel loses in general on their current nodes.
We need same test for Intel Lunar Lake vs AMD Ryzen AI 300 [vs Qualcomm Snapdragon X-Elite]
Do you think the core ultra chips will get better through bios and firmware updates?
It will have some marginal improvements. The way that things works nowadays is to always look for the next gen, which means that companies only focus on getting the goodies to the new upcoming products (logic of profits unfortunately)