+Tyrius Wolfe I don´t think they represent Gamers that much. The only famous "RUclipsr/Critic" who i think kind of represents Gamers is AngryJoe. In this Video however Colin has a point that many Gamers would probably agree with...
+Shawn McDonough Totally. I play on Xbox one and my game is running almost perfect but it has been all year like that for me. People said Witcher had big problems on release, worked perfectly for me. Fallout same thing. It's just strange to me how console versions can work so differently for people.
+Danijel B. I personally don't doubt people have these big issues because I have run in time (on extremely rare occasion) but I PERSONALLY feel like sometimes they are exaggerated. Most of the games you've mentioned have reported glaring bugs but like yourself I've run into them,tops, 3 or 4 times after hours upon hours of gameplay(I play of the ps4). I am legitimately curious as to what causes these differing experience if everyone has the same console and same disk.
+Danijel B. It's the same for me.I think there's just a handful of people who happen to run into a few bugs and they blow it up into this thing where everyone is having issues and the people who didn't play the game buy into it and suddenly alot of people believe the game is just broken.
+Edis Delgado I agree with this, but it also makes it hard because they want to give you "day one/preorder stuff" that you will not be able to get at all if you don't. Makes you have to think about gambling... Do you stand up for yourself and risk losing out on that really cool thing that you want, or do you take it for that piece of digital content? That opens up a whole new can of worms though... :/
+Edis Delgado That's an unfortunate reality nowadays. I think the only thing I was super hyped for I bought with my own money day one was the Dreamcast and I fucking loved it. But not only that, I know I've bought games day one, I usually don't anymore, mostly because I'm broke all the time. However, it's just sad because sometimes you want that experience day one or right away.
+Morgoth Bugler Easy! Stop eating bad food and you’ll get thin. The reality is it’s easy to say it, but when hype etc. is there, it’s hard to have the fortitude to not buy a game, regardless of it’s state.
that will never happen with these new stupid gamers and using my dadd's card that's why EA made a half ass destin# battlefront crap game cause people will buy it still
6:39 was a dick joke waiting to happen, and then Tim and Greg shot a look at the camera as if to say "We know what you're thinking, and we're on board with it."
I remember how PC games have always been pretty buggy since I've been playing back from the 90's. This trend only started at consoles when patches were allowed via internet.
open world games are just a nightmare comparing them with megaman is like comparing a spade with a combine harvester, so many more things can go wrong because the whole project is exponentially more complicated..
Just Cause 3 is definitely not exaggerated. I refuse to play the game until they patch it. the framerate issues are stupid and awful. Even the menu lags.
+KratosRager Sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but what you just said means Nothing. They already got your money. If you really want games to get better, then we need to not support these developers and publishers. They don't care if you never even unwrap the case.
+I_am_rushin True but publicity is worth more than money. If they fuck over players by not fixing it they better take that money and close the studio. No one is gonna give a shit about future releases.
I've become like this as well Colin. I haven't picked up a game on launch for a while now. I hadn't even considered it to be strange until watching this, but i really do think that games are 'properly' released around a month or even two months after launch via updates. I has to be the publishers pushing for release windows to be hit. I'm sure the Devs care to much about the game (art)they are making to release it as anything other than perfect (yes i know, no game is perfect) .
Not saying that either game is broken. My point is why does one game get a pass and the other one doesn't, in terms of criticism. Both games are equally ambitious.
He talks about us being complacent as gamers and then says that Bethesda games are expected to be buggy. Shouldn't a AAA developer be held to the same standard he's holding other games? He gives Witcher crap for bug patches, but at least CD Project Red patches their games. How fast he's forgotten how entirely broken Skyrim was on PS3.
Program sizes keep increasing; human involvement guarantees bugs. The more you know about programming the better you'll understand why 20-50GB programs have problems. Outside gaming, the public have almost no contact with programs of this size
+WeeWeeJumbo That doesn't excuse the fact that publishers are rushing titles out the door half baked. Yes, coding is a lot of work, but lets make it easier and give coders more time, aka release the game when it's ready.
LUGO Gaming I'm sure that's what they'd prefer; but notice how sensitive the market is to dates. Should Rise of the Tomb Raider have launched against Fallout 4? Should Mad Max have launched so long after the movie? Games can live or die on whether they hit the right release week
I completely understand the frustration of spending (or worse, pre-ordering) $60 of game only to fire it up and find it doesn't work right (for the first week) but I just mean to say broken launches aren't always the result of laziness, stupidity or even greed. Avalanche faced a layoff-wave after Mad Max. If JC3 doesn't sell enough, who knows, maybe more? Worse? There are enormous pressures to meet release dates, and when dates are missed, disasters happen
WeeWeeJumbo Well Rise of the Tomb Raider killed its own hype by releasing on Xbox on one date, PC on another, and PS4 a year later. They sold out to Microsoft, so that's their mistake. Mad Max had a decently successful launch, and I feel it was pretty polished too. It's a matter of integrity. You don't sell a car knowing that the brakes don't work, so publishers should have that same integrity with their products. Plus, CD Projekt and Naughty Dog are renowned for being a "gamers developer". Not releasing games when they don't work, and if there is bugs they release press messages to everyone knowing they are on it.
LUGO Gaming Mad Max should have released with the movie, and failure to do so seriously hurt its sales. Would they have released it earlier, if it had been ready? They certainly should have. Maybe people would have jobs, who don't now. Tomb Raider's Xbox 1 launch date destroyed a huge amount of its sales potential _on XBox One_. I included it to illustrate how important release dates are. Comparing any of this to cars and brakes is silly. Nobody dies when a game has wonky physics or whatever. There are success stories and superior process flows are at the source. Yes, some get it right. I'm saying we should take care to understand the big picture before vilifying the ones who've gotten it wrong
I always wanted to hear what Colin's opinion on the fact that I always wait on games, usually hardware and I usually always get a better product. I waited on the One, the price dropped, got Gears Ultimate, an extra controller, and Destiny the Taken King all for the price of the Console. Not to mention that waiting a year to get into Destiny and the game is apparently leaps and bounds better. It really feels like I've been given huge incentive to wait on buying anything for gaming.
Skyrim on the PS3 was heartbreaking. I consider it one of my all time favorite games, but the game literally broke on me at one point so it was unplayable.
I think the main reason more "broken" games are being released is just because more open world games are being made.Open worlds have always been buggy, I love a good open world game but you do have to have a different set of expectations for them.
+Josh Harold Why do you have to have a different set of expectations for them? I just don't see why. Colin is absolutely right, we NEED to demand more, we NEED to expect more. We have to get to the point where we do have the fortitude to abandon a game and boycott publishers if they trick us or try to push an unfinished product on us and expect us to pay full price, only to then push even more DLCs we pay for on us. To make a different, but related example. Cars used to not be as safe in the past. Now we have all kinds of safety systems installed that protect us. Why did this happen? Because people expected a change and demanded for things to get safer, or in other words, better. This example can be related to games, not just open world but any kind of game. They should get better, they should be released in a finished state and without game-breaking issues.
rpr kjj Just because it is harder, that does not mean that we should not strive to accomplish it through effort and investment of time if needed. Broken Games are becoming more and more the norm, rather than the exception and that should never be acceptable.
+Josh Harold I think Arkham Knight is debatable but I don't know if I would consider it an open world, but it is a big detailed game for sure and that game wsa fucked on PC. But even games are broken without being open world. Halo isn't open world. Driveclub isn't open world.
+Josh Harold Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Korean MMOs, I've played many open world games but the billion dollar making companies are always releasing the broken titles...
Why doesn't anyone think of the level of detail, geometry and technical aspects of the games being developed today compared to early 90's or 2000's. The graphical fidelity demanded and expected from AAA games these days seems to be way too much for the developer - and to that point Colin is absolutely right. I think we're hitting a critical mass where the games and its programming have become way too complex than say an early Price of Persia or Aladdin or a Lion King. And I think as game engines and subsequently the ambition of game development become more complex artistically, graphically and with programming systems like AI, maps etc, developers will have less time in their hands to polish their games to perfection. So I think we'll see more broken games at launch that are fixed with Day One patches and with DLC, (Arkham Knight, MKX) subsequent multi gigabyte patches will follow to add features or fix additional bugs and improve performance. Really hoping UC4 releases in good shape. #Hype
"You need to hold hands at some point and sacrifice something you love or something that you care about in order to effect change and it's really hard to do that". "In order to make change we need to look into ourselves and say, "Maybe we are part of the problem, too". To effect change requires broad consensus on how to move forward." Yes, that resonates with me with lots of issues facing us as a human race!! Well said!
Yeah I've been playing through the MGS series for the first time and when playing MGS1 I had to reload a previous save because I had put myself into a situation where I simply didn't have the equipment I needed to progress in the giant stairs area.
GTA V on pc kept getting pushed back and people complained, People complain if it takes too long and people complain about games coming out broken. Everyone is going to complain about everything, yes we can blame the publisher but everyone just needs to stop complaining about every little thing and just let developers make the game dammit!
I don't like how some people give Fallout 4 the pass here. That game was really buggy for me, almost to the point where I didn't want to play it at all and that shouldn't be acceptable. Overall I agree with Colin though. We should expect more than what we are getting on a technical level.
The main reason why a game ends up being broken is because it was rushed and the developers were in too much of a hurry to have it ready for store shelves. Games such as, Halo the Master Chief Collection, GTA V Online, Batman Arkham Knight, Sim City, Diablo 3 and of course Assassin's Creed Unity were all broken upon release. Instead of rushing to put a game on store shelves developers need to give games more time and to make sure that the products are tested without glitches and bugs prior to release. As far as Just Cause 3 is concerned the major issue that the game has which is unfortunately a major problem for everyone is regarding the loading times which are absurd. It takes 30-60 seconds just to load a game. Challenges are even more egregious which can take anywhere from 1-2 minutes for the game to load. Perhaps Avalanche Studios will release some sort of patch across all platforms (PS4, Xbox One and PC) to remedy the issue regarding the lengthy load times.
Great topic. I liken this to suffering sports fans. I'm a Bears fan and I'll get sucked in every year. Cubs fans can def understand Colin's frustration. For gamers, we just want to believe that the games we're hyped about are going to be good. It's like believing every training camp our beloved team will be great.
Our expectation has raised exponentially too. If Mega Man was released today the uproar over slowdown and flicker would be astronomical and would certainly be patched.
As far as day-1 patches are concerned, I think the leniency of releasing these 10gb patches comes from the fact that most people have Internet, and maybe some of these games don't even fully fit their data into the discs.
in my 15 years of gaming i never had a game that broken that i couldn't play it ... but i agree .. better wait more and then play a game that works like it's supposed to, then getting a game that is released way to early and it's half working !
This is why I like this group, Tim is the optimistic one, greg is for supporting the developers. and colin is the realistic/harsh one. But honestly colin is right. paying 60 bucks for an unfinished game, just to have to pay another 50 for something your not sure what it is. Just the way gaming is going.
Very good points, Colin. Boycotting is not easy. I don't like many of Activision's or EA's practices, but they publish so many of the games I want to play and have been anticipating that it is hard not to buy them.
With this generation we did not get prices for games increased, so publishers either try to turn their game into a platform for selling content or sell a few extra DLC's after the game is released. I'd rather pay a $60 for a base game and then have an option to opt-in for a DLC, rather than be forced to buy a game at a higher price.
After the master bug collection I am very skeptical about any new Halo. Its just asinine that 4 old Halo games already released just did not work at launch on a more advanced piece of hardware.
I only play the games I've been looking forward to for a while, so it's impossible for me to not buy them day 1. I remember both Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition having incredibly annoying bugs the first months. DAI even had several game breaking bugs on PS4 where the dialogue wheel would not show up and the game couldn't progress. I think the problem is that publishers have seen they can release broken games and justify it with patching later, as long as they get their preorders and their boast-worthy week-1 sales. However, I know delaying a game is also something that deeply affects developers. CDProjekt told they had too many bugs for Witcher 3 to be released in Feburary and when the lead had to announce to the team the game was delayed yet again, everyone was disappointed and frustrated. I think the size of AAA developers can be a problem too.
I still don't understand why Colin would excuse Fallout's bugs because it's ambitious and rant about Just Cause 3. JC3 is an incredibly ambitious game. I can't believe it's running on my PS4. The draw distance, the lighting, the textures, the explosions. It's an amazing looking game. I'm disappointed with its performance, but it's completely playable. It holds at 30 most of the time. If we're going to call out games for their bugginess, we must be consistent. And games are incredibly complex now. I think this point was dismissed too readily. There are way more moving parts in modern games than there were in the past. I still think we should complain when our games are buggy, but recognize the complexities of the issue. For a follow up to this discussion, I think you guys could talk about different types of bugs and which ones bother you the most. For instance, AC Unity's texture pop-in jankiness annoyed me more than JC3's frame rate dips.
agreed. driveclub was completely fine. the social features were broken. evo didn't know it would be broken either because it only broke due to the massive people trying to connect. if they ran a beta they probably could've caught it
it's my belief that most online games are going to be broken on day one. it's cheaper to build a server setup for your average congruent player base than it is to handle the day one flood.
It's so refreshing to see more and more people with a platform like Colin calling out these problems like they should. It's so frustrating looking at media gushing over the new hotness every release yet remaining willfully ignorant to all the garbage that comes along with AAA games. What's worse is seeing people like Jeff Gertsmann being down talked because he actually felt that these things should matter in a review and "dared" to take points away from a game because of it. Definitely subscribing because of this video, keep being honest guys. I haven't pre-ordered a game since Diablo 3.
"Games are cheaper now than ever before." is a refrain I hear too often. It's often used to justify the current trend we see of games being released with content excised and sold to consumers piecemeal in order to increase a company's return without risking any further investment. I'm not saying that's your exact position, Colin, I have no idea where you stand on the problematic nature of modern DLC, I'm just pointing out that this argument tends to be used in favor of these practices and I personally feel it's flat out wrong. While the fact that the standard MSRP of full-priced games has not kept pace with inflation is TECHNICALLY true there are other external factors that keep that price depressed. The most important one is that the marketplace for video games is far more saturated than it has ever been and consumers have a nearly limitless number of options when it comes to their purchases which forces companies to compete on price. No one wants to be the one that tests a flat $70 price point when there are other companies that can make it work for $60. And there are because they can. They all can. Free market capitalism cuts both ways. Also, video game budgets don't exist as part of some uncontrollable perpetual-motion device that constantly forces publishers to throw more money at their games in order to make them function. Sure, this is what those publishers want you to believe, that they are victims of circumstance, but they set their own budgets and expectations, no one does that for them. Most of these companies are simply concerned with making ALL of the money instead of simply returning a modest profit on their investment so naturally they swing for the fences but still hedge their bets by using Skinner Box programming to try and exploit as much additional income as they can from the assets their development studios produce instead of setting reasonable expectations, budgeting properly, and releasing a complete, polished product to their customers. Games aren't actually cheap right now, they're exactly the price they should be. Which is to say the price that consumers are willing to pay. The fact that major publishers have to withhold content in order to coerce additional profit from their consumers kind of proves that.
I don't either. I mean it's not like issues don't exist (because they certainly do and they should be fixed), but here we are a week into the game's life and I still have yet to experience anything remotely close to "3 minute long loading times" or "15 FPS frame drops". It's performance isn't perfect but it's FAR from being broken or unplayable. I appreciate people's intentions, but they need to stop crying wolf on games like this and Fallout so whenever another AC Unity or Arkham Knight PC actually does come around, we can take their word for it when they warn us.
+8024hawk I think what you guys need to remember is that just because your experience has been good, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. It works the other way too, just because somebody has an issue, that doesn't mean that a game is "broken".
I'm currently playing Xenoblade Chronicles X, a hugely ambitious game, and I'm just so impressed by how well it works. No issues whatsoever. It's refreshing to see a game like that these days.
Devs...delay your shit if it is not finished! Thats why i love cd projekt red when they released the teaser for Cyberpunk 2077 "out...when it's ready" I've been burnt so many times the past few years that ive come to the point now that when big ambitious games have a delayed announcement i am actually happy because maybe that game will be released and wont be broken or as broken as it would have been if released early.
I think the point you, Colin, made at the end there that the 'impatient' gamers are part of the problem, is very important. Publishers are the root of this problem, but said gamers are co-perpetrators, because, as consumers, we vote with our wallet. If more people wait for games to actually be finished till they drop their hard earned cash, especially when said game on the day of purchasing it is not only finally working, but also on sale, this is the very clear message we can send to the publishers. E-mails and stuff like that? You're lucky if even 1 person reads that. Don't pay for broken games, vote with your wallet. Fortunately, I can see more and more people realising this and doing their part as responsible consumers, at least among my friends (small sample size, I know^^) On a side note: I will hold off on Andromeda, even though the Mass Effect Universe is pretty much my favorite universe in gaming, but not just because of locking plot-relevant stuff behind an additional pay wall (fortunately, you can see that coming from a mile away, and then wait for gold/ultimate edition or a massive sale), but because I'm gonna wait to see whether the developers give in to the cries of the community and change the ending of their game post-launch again (Which is, apparently, a pretty unpopular opinion, but whatever^^). Waited on buying Inquisition for just that reason
The difference between the video game crash and now, is parents were mostly buying the games, nowadays the gaming industry is so huge that the majority of games are bought by the people who are going to play them. Unfortunately most gamers don't have the fortitude, and don't educate themselves. I am definitely buying less games at launch now then I ever have.
Glad Colin is calling this out, Iv'e been severely disappointed this fall with games. Fallout 4 is painfully slow, freezing for 10 seconds after saving ,long load times going through every door. Just cause 3 isn't much better, The frame rate hasn't been a bother to me on the Xbone and it looks nice and feels great. The gear challenges combined with it's loading times can make for a frustrating experience though. I think Just Cause is getting too much crap considering Bethesda dropped an open world rpg filled with absurd loading screens three weeks before to much better scores. Halo was really good at launch even without it's varied multiplayer match types. Needless to say however, I'll be waiting for review scores and price drops next fall.
The persona team is underrated, before I get called a weeb, it's true. They don't release lot of games but when they do its polished, and genuinely unique experiences. They take time to make sure their games work, and don't rush their product.
Preach it brother Colin! One point that I'm not sure I agree with. Take 343 Industries for example. They released the MCC and it was broken. From all accounts Halo 5 is solid/pretty good. If we choose not to buy Halo 5 doesn't that punish a quality product for the failings of a different product? Especially when you consider that there might be different teams working on MCC vs. Halo 5. I think a better approach (imo) would be for gamers to stop pre-ordering and buying games sight unseen on day 1. If you had seen news sights a week or two after MCC released you could have seen the issues that exist. Then by not buying THAT game you would place the blame on the project that deserved it. A year down the line and 343 releases Halo 5 and a week or two in everyone says its solid, so you buy it. Thereby rewarding a project that was successful. Also, having effective refund systems, such as steam, allow you to get your money back if the product turns out to be fucked after the first week you bought it.
lol with due respect to Colin and the kindafunny guys. The reason games are being released broken these days is mostly due to the fact that the gaming media have over the past 10 years utterly failed in their responsibility to adjust ratings for broken ass poorly tested games. Add this to the culture of pre order bonuses etc etc. It's no real suprise. Bethesda being the prime example of such a publisher. It does not matter how good a game could be if the game you actually get is buggy as hell, and yet they Always get a free pass because the "games are big" lol. Main thing Don't buy preorder games EVER. Secondly side note: if you do not want to see more insanely expensive season passes and DLC " DO NOT BUY IT" it's really not that hard.
I really wish that game creators will take a RETAIL COPY on a disc, not the dev version, put that disc into a retail console (again not the developer console) and play through the game before releasing it. this was my exact thought when I played AC Unity on day one, along with other games that have significant issues. I wonder if the hardware they use during development to test the game is giving a different experience from a retail setup. I don't know if it's possible to do the retail copy thing because of logistics but I think that a lot of issues would be blatantly obvious to the devs/publishers or whomever if they did this, AC Unity had serious problems for me the first day I played it, same with fallout 4 when I lost 14 hours due to broken quests (not to mention visual glitches).
I think the word Colin was looking for is polish. Most of these issues just speak to a lack of polish and care given by these developers to their games. That's what makes people respect Nintendo games and Naughty Dog games so much, because every game they make has so much genuine care, respect and passion that can be clearly seen in everything they do, from the release and readiness of the game, to every inch of the game itself. I feel like other than the very very best, most of these "good, but not great" games have that unpolished feel, where, even if there are no issues at launch, there's just something lacking with these games now that a game like South Park had.
This is exactly why I haven't purchased a new game in 5 or so years. It's just not worth it any more. Well that and my backlog is so atrocious that I always have something to play.
I've done that waiting game for past 4 years. Picking them up from Steam sales is a plus and even with my current game library I wont be done for a year. Not to say I do that with all devs. Bioware and Blizzard games I still tend to buy on the first week.
The short answer is money. This is an industry. The vision and scope of modern games and their creators becomes bigger every year and there isn't always the inclination to give these things the time they need in the face of profits. Why delay our target release window when we can launch on time, pull the best haul, and placate the unsatisfied with "updates", patches, ect.
I personally stopped buying games day 1 a few years ago for this exact issue. I expect almost every game to be "broken" day 1 especially a MP focused game. I will just buy it a month or 2 later at a significant discount and patches will be ready for me.
It has crossed my mind that it's at such a stage now that an investigation into whether your rights are being effected as a consumer is really called for now. Essentially gaming customers are being taken for fools. I don't buy from ubisoft or ea any more, in the last year I've started to just wait it out before shelling out cash for any game as it could potentially be broken or buggy. What blows my mind is that people actually still pre-order, that's just insane in this market, don't be tempted in by the shiny baubles. A DLC season pass is a joke as well, I got roped into that once with Bioshock Infinite, that's the one and only time that will ever happen to me, I was lucky to get it cut price in a steam sale though so by waiting I limited the damage. But beyond all that, surely there is a consumer rights issue here? When we buy a game on release day it isn't unreasonable to expect it to work without further patches etc. I'd suggest that broken and buggy games are now such a common problem that our rights are being effected. If that's too far then maybe more people will become like minded and just avoid buying until it is clear that a game is in a working state. One topic that hasn't been raised here is that it creates mistrust between the reviewer and reader when bugs or problems with a game are not mentioned in the review. I do think there is a responsibility on the reviewer to make note of these things in order that people can make a more informed purchase, it's really never the case though. Reviewers seem more tied to the games company then the gamer in this respect.
I'm not sure what the laws are like in the US, but in the UK we can return any product if it is sold faulty. We just can't return software if we simply changed our minds. Except with Steam, now we can do that too.
+Code: Marla Canadian here. I heard the UK just passed a consumer rights act that allows people to return their games if they don't feel the game is any good. You guys are so lucky I wish Canada would take up that law and then games will be great again! :D
I think there was/is a way bigger problem this year. In my eyes it has been the year of the fucking seasonpasses prior release ,half completed games which need DLC to be a real game and microtransactions as always. It's getting worst and worst every year. #Colin is right. It was not possible back in the days to update and now they take totall advantage of all those things.
Funny that you mentioned Until Dawn working day one, because it's one of the few games I bought a physical copy of on day (or week) one and I had an issue where it wouldn't let me pick up the first totem and couldn't progress with the games story. Had to restart my playthrough, and it worked the second time. It turned me off from the game and ruined the immersion. I ended up checking patch notes every now and then and saw that it was fixed I believe in patch 1.03 (not sure the exact patch number, but if you check their history you'll see it).
To the credit of what I believe to be the best developer:Rockstar Games(even better than Naughty Dog). They at least gave players half a million in-game dollars when GTA Online first launched and messed players' saves up. I think more developers should give early adopters a free season pass or some kind of reward to players who bought their broken game.
I bought Battlefield 4 day one and it was broken to shit, so I held off on Hardline and I'm glad I did. Now Battlefront is seeing similar issues and locking such a considerable percentage of it's content behind an absurdly priced paywall. I don't know what happened to DICE, but I'm glad I learned my lesson early.
I won't even buy WB games anymore, and I loved Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City (and Mortal Kombat IX also). Between their PC problems with Knight, and how Arkham Origin has a game breaking bug that they refused to fix because they needed to put out more DLC. And the fact their DLC is really weak, but they harp on it like crazy. Yea, I don't blame Rocksteady, I definitely blame WB. Forget it. Not touching another one of their games until they show these things have changed. There are other examples, but that is a big one.I checked PC reviews for Fallout 4 before I bought it. Had to find out if it was as broken as 3 or NV. Would have totally waited if it had, and I was mega-hyped for that game, sheesh! I will absolutely not pre-order the season pass, but I am glad it exists, since if anything on it is worth it, I will wait till it goes on Steam Sale to buy it. Heh.
I still haven't bought Fallout 4 for PC. Waiting for one or two more updates. I had 100+ hours into The Witcher 3 before some patches arrived that improved the game (not that it was bad on PC but it had quest bugs etc) Ironically i tried to play the Hearts Of Stone DLC last week and it keeps crashing. But yeah i'm avoiding new games until updates come out.
now developers are used to the scale of projects on the current generation of consoles I expect that companies will factor the extra month or so needed for the product and these broken releases will happen less and less. day one updates are actually a good thing, the problem is when they don't smooth things over, but actually make the games work.
After hearing this rant quite a few times it's turned me as well. I don't buy nearly as many games on launch as I used too. Support what I want to support and deserves it and wait on the ones that don't.
Its a strange situation that I honestly dont know a solution to. You cant just say "dont buy it" because to be blunt, if you love the franchise you will buy the game no matter the hearsay of bugs and broken parts. Its strange though because can you imagine if film companies released blu ray (hd) films at standard def, with a patch to make it 1080p later. Or maybe you get a special edition of a film but the deleted scenes and blooper reals are not released until months later? The industry would collapse, and no one would stand for it. So why do gamers put up with it? I dont have an answer as I recently lapped up Just Cause 3 and will probably buy Just Cause 4 despite the horrid launch of the third game.
9:30 Greg's reaction to "We're not young" xD xD
Haha I wondered if anybody noticed that! Good eye!
I was thinking the same thing!
After this video and Greg's speech at the Game Awards, I vote Colin and Greg as the spokespeople for us gamers.
I love listening to Greg and Colin but I wouldn't want them representing me.
Scarpino-Gettys 2016.
+Tyrius Wolfe I don´t think they represent Gamers that much. The only famous "RUclipsr/Critic" who i think kind of represents Gamers is AngryJoe. In this Video however Colin has a point that many Gamers would probably agree with...
Colin should have gone to law school. He has an unparalleled ability to argue his case and articulate his thoughts.
PREACH, COLIN.
A general high education garners that when you pay attention and take notes.
+sluggdiddy Yeah 10 years in the industry at IGN. Really can't handle it
The reports of Just Cause's technical problems (on PS4) have been greatly exaggerated.
+Shawn McDonough Totally. I play on Xbox one and my game is running almost perfect but it has been all year like that for me. People said Witcher had big problems on release, worked perfectly for me. Fallout same thing. It's just strange to me how console versions can work so differently for people.
+Shawn McDonough Or your having a different experience?
+Danijel B. I personally don't doubt people have these big issues because I have run in time (on extremely rare occasion) but I PERSONALLY feel like sometimes they are exaggerated.
Most of the games you've mentioned have reported glaring bugs but like yourself I've run into them,tops, 3 or 4 times after hours upon hours of gameplay(I play of the ps4). I am legitimately curious as to what causes these differing experience if everyone has the same console and same disk.
+karaso0 agreed
+Danijel B. It's the same for me.I think there's just a handful of people who happen to run into a few bugs and they blow it up into this thing where everyone is having issues and the people who didn't play the game buy into it and suddenly alot of people believe the game is just broken.
Hahaha, I cracked up laughing at Tim's cheeky smile at 6:40
A partial solution is to not buy day one.
+Edis Delgado I agree with this, but it also makes it hard because they want to give you "day one/preorder stuff" that you will not be able to get at all if you don't. Makes you have to think about gambling... Do you stand up for yourself and risk losing out on that really cool thing that you want, or do you take it for that piece of digital content? That opens up a whole new can of worms though... :/
+Edis Delgado That's an unfortunate reality nowadays. I think the only thing I was super hyped for I bought with my own money day one was the Dreamcast and I fucking loved it. But not only that, I know I've bought games day one, I usually don't anymore, mostly because I'm broke all the time. However, it's just sad because sometimes you want that experience day one or right away.
+SomthingMachine The reality is online you can find those day one things months after so i don't think thats a fair argument.
+Edis Delgado that's what i did for battlefront, waited a month. BF4 launch being my reason.
Easy! Stop supporting broken games, and the industry will adjust.
Like Colin said, "most people have zero fortitude"! They are addicted and can't help themselfs whichmakes us suffer as well.
Very easy when nobody follows suit, even the people who say they're boycotting or sending a message.
+Morgoth Bugler Easy! Stop eating bad food and you’ll get thin. The reality is it’s easy to say it, but when hype etc. is there, it’s hard to have the fortitude to not buy a game, regardless of it’s state.
Jon Welner Thanks pal.
that will never happen with these new stupid gamers and using my dadd's card
that's why EA made a half ass destin# battlefront crap game
cause people will buy it still
6:39 was a dick joke waiting to happen, and then Tim and Greg shot a look at the camera as if to say "We know what you're thinking, and we're on board with it."
I feel bad for gamers with no internet who can't even get the day one patch. They get stuck with a broken game
I remember how PC games have always been pretty buggy since I've been playing back from the 90's. This trend only started at consoles when patches were allowed via internet.
Yep! Last gen ruined console game quality.
That Tim Gettys smile at 6:38 is so fucking awesome hahahaa
open world games are just a nightmare comparing them with megaman is like comparing a spade with a combine harvester, so many more things can go wrong because the whole project is exponentially more complicated..
just cause 3 is fantastic the technical issues are extremely exaggerated
+Josh Harold wrong they are not exaggerated at all
Just Cause 3 is definitely not exaggerated. I refuse to play the game until they patch it. the framerate issues are stupid and awful. Even the menu lags.
+KratosRager Sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but what you just said means Nothing. They already got your money. If you really want games to get better, then we need to not support these developers and publishers. They don't care if you never even unwrap the case.
+Otherguy123321 You misunderstand. It means nothing from the POV of the publisher.
+I_am_rushin True but publicity is worth more than money. If they fuck over players by not fixing it they better take that money and close the studio. No one is gonna give a shit about future releases.
6:38 when they both looked at the camera ahahahah i died laughing
When Colin said its not the size that's important and Tim gives you that keep your daughter away from me smile.
LMAO
Tim's face when Colin said, "size doesn't matter" I fuckin love you Tim I'm gonna buy you a beer if I see you one day ahahaha
I've become like this as well Colin. I haven't picked up a game on launch for a while now. I hadn't even considered it to be strange until watching this, but i really do think that games are 'properly' released around a month or even two months after launch via updates. I has to be the publishers pushing for release windows to be hit. I'm sure the Devs care to much about the game (art)they are making to release it as anything other than perfect (yes i know, no game is perfect) .
I love how Collin gives Fallout 4 a pass if their game is broken but it's completely unacceptable if Just Cause 3 is broken.
fallout 4 is in no way broken, neither is just cause actually.
Not saying that either game is broken. My point is why does one game get a pass and the other one doesn't, in terms of criticism. Both games are equally ambitious.
He talks about us being complacent as gamers and then says that Bethesda games are expected to be buggy. Shouldn't a AAA developer be held to the same standard he's holding other games? He gives Witcher crap for bug patches, but at least CD Project Red patches their games. How fast he's forgotten how entirely broken Skyrim was on PS3.
Program sizes keep increasing; human involvement guarantees bugs. The more you know about programming the better you'll understand why 20-50GB programs have problems. Outside gaming, the public have almost no contact with programs of this size
+WeeWeeJumbo That doesn't excuse the fact that publishers are rushing titles out the door half baked. Yes, coding is a lot of work, but lets make it easier and give coders more time, aka release the game when it's ready.
LUGO Gaming I'm sure that's what they'd prefer; but notice how sensitive the market is to dates. Should Rise of the Tomb Raider have launched against Fallout 4? Should Mad Max have launched so long after the movie? Games can live or die on whether they hit the right release week
I completely understand the frustration of spending (or worse, pre-ordering) $60 of game only to fire it up and find it doesn't work right (for the first week) but I just mean to say broken launches aren't always the result of laziness, stupidity or even greed. Avalanche faced a layoff-wave after Mad Max. If JC3 doesn't sell enough, who knows, maybe more? Worse? There are enormous pressures to meet release dates, and when dates are missed, disasters happen
WeeWeeJumbo
Well Rise of the Tomb Raider killed its own hype by releasing on Xbox on one date, PC on another, and PS4 a year later. They sold out to Microsoft, so that's their mistake. Mad Max had a decently successful launch, and I feel it was pretty polished too. It's a matter of integrity. You don't sell a car knowing that the brakes don't work, so publishers should have that same integrity with their products. Plus, CD Projekt and Naughty Dog are renowned for being a "gamers developer". Not releasing games when they don't work, and if there is bugs they release press messages to everyone knowing they are on it.
LUGO Gaming Mad Max should have released with the movie, and failure to do so seriously hurt its sales. Would they have released it earlier, if it had been ready? They certainly should have. Maybe people would have jobs, who don't now.
Tomb Raider's Xbox 1 launch date destroyed a huge amount of its sales potential _on XBox One_. I included it to illustrate how important release dates are.
Comparing any of this to cars and brakes is silly. Nobody dies when a game has wonky physics or whatever.
There are success stories and superior process flows are at the source. Yes, some get it right. I'm saying we should take care to understand the big picture before vilifying the ones who've gotten it wrong
hahaha that should be the next shirt guys. "welp, videogames..." lol
I always wanted to hear what Colin's opinion on the fact that I always wait on games, usually hardware and I usually always get a better product. I waited on the One, the price dropped, got Gears Ultimate, an extra controller, and Destiny the Taken King all for the price of the Console. Not to mention that waiting a year to get into Destiny and the game is apparently leaps and bounds better. It really feels like I've been given huge incentive to wait on buying anything for gaming.
Skyrim on the PS3 was heartbreaking. I consider it one of my all time favorite games, but the game literally broke on me at one point so it was unplayable.
Skyrim on PS3 is very good now, so far I have 50+ hours in and nothing game breaking happened (besides one of my quests glitching)
I think the main reason more "broken" games are being released is just because more open world games are being made.Open worlds have always been buggy, I love a good open world game but you do have to have a different set of expectations for them.
+Josh Harold Why do you have to have a different set of expectations for them? I just don't see why. Colin is absolutely right, we NEED to demand more, we NEED to expect more. We have to get to the point where we do have the fortitude to abandon a game and boycott publishers if they trick us or try to push an unfinished product on us and expect us to pay full price, only to then push even more DLCs we pay for on us.
To make a different, but related example. Cars used to not be as safe in the past. Now we have all kinds of safety systems installed that protect us. Why did this happen? Because people expected a change and demanded for things to get safer, or in other words, better. This example can be related to games, not just open world but any kind of game. They should get better, they should be released in a finished state and without game-breaking issues.
+Dave189 because it's harder to make an open world game bug free than it is a linear game
rpr kjj Just because it is harder, that does not mean that we should not strive to accomplish it through effort and investment of time if needed. Broken Games are becoming more and more the norm, rather than the exception and that should never be acceptable.
+Josh Harold I think Arkham Knight is debatable but I don't know if I would consider it an open world, but it is a big detailed game for sure and that game wsa fucked on PC. But even games are broken without being open world. Halo isn't open world. Driveclub isn't open world.
+Josh Harold Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Korean MMOs, I've played many open world games but the billion dollar making companies are always releasing the broken titles...
props to Colin for the shout out to Jim Sterling!
Why doesn't anyone think of the level of detail, geometry and technical aspects of the games being developed today compared to early 90's or 2000's. The graphical fidelity demanded and expected from AAA games these days seems to be way too much for the developer - and to that point Colin is absolutely right. I think we're hitting a critical mass where the games and its programming have become way too complex than say an early Price of Persia or Aladdin or a Lion King. And I think as game engines and subsequently the ambition of game development become more complex artistically, graphically and with programming systems like AI, maps etc, developers will have less time in their hands to polish their games to perfection. So I think we'll see more broken games at launch that are fixed with Day One patches and with DLC, (Arkham Knight, MKX) subsequent multi gigabyte patches will follow to add features or fix additional bugs and improve performance. Really hoping UC4 releases in good shape. #Hype
"You need to hold hands at some point and sacrifice something you love or something that you care about in order to effect change and it's really hard to do that".
"In order to make change we need to look into ourselves and say, "Maybe we are part of the problem, too". To effect change requires broad consensus on how to move forward."
Yes, that resonates with me with lots of issues facing us as a human race!! Well said!
Yeah I've been playing through the MGS series for the first time and when playing MGS1 I had to reload a previous save because I had put myself into a situation where I simply didn't have the equipment I needed to progress in the giant stairs area.
Bulletstorm suffered from being broken on launch. Was still broken months after it released and was around $10 when it was finally fixed.
colin bringing the real talk
"It's starting to upset me and I don't even play half these fucking games." -Colin 2015.
GTA V on pc kept getting pushed back and people complained, People complain if it takes too long and people complain about games coming out broken. Everyone is going to complain about everything, yes we can blame the publisher but everyone just needs to stop complaining about every little thing and just let developers make the game dammit!
I don't like how some people give Fallout 4 the pass here. That game was really buggy for me, almost to the point where I didn't want to play it at all and that shouldn't be acceptable. Overall I agree with Colin though. We should expect more than what we are getting on a technical level.
You can develop the fortitude, but do you want to? That's the real question
The main reason why a game ends up being broken is because it was rushed and the developers were in too much of a hurry to have it ready for store shelves. Games such as, Halo the Master Chief Collection, GTA V Online, Batman Arkham Knight, Sim City, Diablo 3 and of course Assassin's Creed Unity were all broken upon release. Instead of rushing to put a game on store shelves developers need to give games more time and to make sure that the products are tested without glitches and bugs prior to release. As far as Just Cause 3 is concerned the major issue that the game has which is unfortunately a major problem for everyone is regarding the loading times which are absurd. It takes 30-60 seconds just to load a game. Challenges are even more egregious which can take anywhere from 1-2 minutes for the game to load. Perhaps Avalanche Studios will release some sort of patch across all platforms (PS4, Xbox One and PC) to remedy the issue regarding the lengthy load times.
Great topic. I liken this to suffering sports fans. I'm a Bears fan and I'll get sucked in every year. Cubs fans can def understand Colin's frustration. For gamers, we just want to believe that the games we're hyped about are going to be good. It's like believing every training camp our beloved team will be great.
A large part of it is not only "don't buy early" but also don't buy AT ALL. Giving them $20 for say... Arkham Knight is giving them $20 of approval.
This man Collin is something special.
This. THIS. IS the topic I have been waiting for
Our expectation has raised exponentially too. If Mega Man was released today the uproar over slowdown and flicker would be astronomical and would certainly be patched.
As far as day-1 patches are concerned, I think the leniency of releasing these 10gb patches comes from the fact that most people have Internet, and maybe some of these games don't even fully fit their data into the discs.
in my 15 years of gaming i never had a game that broken that i couldn't play it ... but i agree .. better wait more and then play a game that works like it's supposed to, then getting a game that is released way to early and it's half working !
This is why I like this group, Tim is the optimistic one, greg is for supporting the developers. and colin is the realistic/harsh one. But honestly colin is right. paying 60 bucks for an unfinished game, just to have to pay another 50 for something your not sure what it is. Just the way gaming is going.
Also, just another reason game delays are ALWAYS a good thing. Your patience will be rewarded with better quality, straight up.
We all feel it Colin! Preach on!
i don't really mind day one patches. the one thing that is ridiculous is season passes costing more than the actual fucking game
With all the complaining about Star Wars Battlefront, I don't recall ANYONE mentioning how it works perfectly out of the box.
Very good points, Colin. Boycotting is not easy. I don't like many of Activision's or EA's practices, but they publish so many of the games I want to play and have been anticipating that it is hard not to buy them.
+Michael Leon Buy used.
Not from Gamestop. Hell no. I guess I could use Craigs List.
22:08
we buy, we play
we buy, we buy, we play
buy buy buy
play play play
The Colin and Greggy Showwww!
With this generation we did not get prices for games increased, so publishers either try to turn their game into a platform for selling content or sell a few extra DLC's after the game is released. I'd rather pay a $60 for a base game and then have an option to opt-in for a DLC, rather than be forced to buy a game at a higher price.
Santaur and Navidog! I love it. (I really hope the latter was intentionally a double pun.)
I think Colin would make a good teacher
After the master bug collection I am very skeptical about any new Halo. Its just asinine that 4 old Halo games already released just did not work at launch on a more advanced piece of hardware.
I only play the games I've been looking forward to for a while, so it's impossible for me to not buy them day 1. I remember both Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition having incredibly annoying bugs the first months. DAI even had several game breaking bugs on PS4 where the dialogue wheel would not show up and the game couldn't progress.
I think the problem is that publishers have seen they can release broken games and justify it with patching later, as long as they get their preorders and their boast-worthy week-1 sales.
However, I know delaying a game is also something that deeply affects developers. CDProjekt told they had too many bugs for Witcher 3 to be released in Feburary and when the lead had to announce to the team the game was delayed yet again, everyone was disappointed and frustrated.
I think the size of AAA developers can be a problem too.
Great Topic guys! This has been one of my favorites.
I still don't understand why Colin would excuse Fallout's bugs because it's ambitious and rant about Just Cause 3. JC3 is an incredibly ambitious game. I can't believe it's running on my PS4. The draw distance, the lighting, the textures, the explosions. It's an amazing looking game. I'm disappointed with its performance, but it's completely playable. It holds at 30 most of the time. If we're going to call out games for their bugginess, we must be consistent. And games are incredibly complex now. I think this point was dismissed too readily. There are way more moving parts in modern games than there were in the past. I still think we should complain when our games are buggy, but recognize the complexities of the issue.
For a follow up to this discussion, I think you guys could talk about different types of bugs and which ones bother you the most. For instance, AC Unity's texture pop-in jankiness annoyed me more than JC3's frame rate dips.
I've never understood the dislike of day one patches. Developers should always continue to work on their products to improve them.
Driveclub wasn't busted, the online part online was busted.
agreed. driveclub was completely fine. the social features were broken. evo didn't know it would be broken either because it only broke due to the massive people trying to connect. if they ran a beta they probably could've caught it
it's my belief that most online games are going to be broken on day one. it's cheaper to build a server setup for your average congruent player base than it is to handle the day one flood.
This is how I felt about fallout 4 launch on consoles, "how can you release this!?" Lol
It's so refreshing to see more and more people with a platform like Colin calling out these problems like they should. It's so frustrating looking at media gushing over the new hotness every release yet remaining willfully ignorant to all the garbage that comes along with AAA games. What's worse is seeing people like Jeff Gertsmann being down talked because he actually felt that these things should matter in a review and "dared" to take points away from a game because of it. Definitely subscribing because of this video, keep being honest guys.
I haven't pre-ordered a game since Diablo 3.
"Games are cheaper now than ever before." is a refrain I hear too often. It's often used to justify the current trend we see of games being released with content excised and sold to consumers piecemeal in order to increase a company's return without risking any further investment. I'm not saying that's your exact position, Colin, I have no idea where you stand on the problematic nature of modern DLC, I'm just pointing out that this argument tends to be used in favor of these practices and I personally feel it's flat out wrong.
While the fact that the standard MSRP of full-priced games has not kept pace with inflation is TECHNICALLY true there are other external factors that keep that price depressed.
The most important one is that the marketplace for video games is far more saturated than it has ever been and consumers have a nearly limitless number of options when it comes to their purchases which forces companies to compete on price. No one wants to be the one that tests a flat $70 price point when there are other companies that can make it work for $60. And there are because they can. They all can. Free market capitalism cuts both ways.
Also, video game budgets don't exist as part of some uncontrollable perpetual-motion device that constantly forces publishers to throw more money at their games in order to make them function. Sure, this is what those publishers want you to believe, that they are victims of circumstance, but they set their own budgets and expectations, no one does that for them. Most of these companies are simply concerned with making ALL of the money instead of simply returning a modest profit on their investment so naturally they swing for the fences but still hedge their bets by using Skinner Box programming to try and exploit as much additional income as they can from the assets their development studios produce instead of setting reasonable expectations, budgeting properly, and releasing a complete, polished product to their customers.
Games aren't actually cheap right now, they're exactly the price they should be. Which is to say the price that consumers are willing to pay. The fact that major publishers have to withhold content in order to coerce additional profit from their consumers kind of proves that.
I have had almost no problems with Just Cause 3 on my PS4. Load times can vary, but usually no longer than 30 seconds. I don't get the complaining
I don't either. I mean it's not like issues don't exist (because they certainly do and they should be fixed), but here we are a week into the game's life and I still have yet to experience anything remotely close to "3 minute long loading times" or "15 FPS frame drops". It's performance isn't perfect but it's FAR from being broken or unplayable. I appreciate people's intentions, but they need to stop crying wolf on games like this and Fallout so whenever another AC Unity or Arkham Knight PC actually does come around, we can take their word for it when they warn us.
+8024hawk I think what you guys need to remember is that just because your experience has been good, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. It works the other way too, just because somebody has an issue, that doesn't mean that a game is "broken".
+8024hawk
I hope we never experience another Arkham Knight PC. Once is enough.
I'm currently playing Xenoblade Chronicles X, a hugely ambitious game, and I'm just so impressed by how well it works. No issues whatsoever. It's refreshing to see a game like that these days.
Devs...delay your shit if it is not finished!
Thats why i love cd projekt red when they released the teaser for Cyberpunk 2077 "out...when it's ready" I've been burnt so many times the past few years that ive come to the point now that when big ambitious games have a delayed announcement i am actually happy because maybe that game will be released and wont be broken or as broken as it would have been if released early.
there is a simple solution to end this problem!, refunds, refunds, refunds, if refunds are allowed , publishers will never put a defected product .
I put over 48 hours into Fallout 4 and my save broke. I had no problem starting a new game but latter found that it kind of lost it's momentum for me.
I think the point you, Colin, made at the end there that the 'impatient' gamers are part of the problem, is very important. Publishers are the root of this problem, but said gamers are co-perpetrators, because, as consumers, we vote with our wallet. If more people wait for games to actually be finished till they drop their hard earned cash, especially when said game on the day of purchasing it is not only finally working, but also on sale, this is the very clear message we can send to the publishers. E-mails and stuff like that? You're lucky if even 1 person reads that. Don't pay for broken games, vote with your wallet.
Fortunately, I can see more and more people realising this and doing their part as responsible consumers, at least among my friends (small sample size, I know^^)
On a side note: I will hold off on Andromeda, even though the Mass Effect Universe is pretty much my favorite universe in gaming, but not just because of locking plot-relevant stuff behind an additional pay wall (fortunately, you can see that coming from a mile away, and then wait for gold/ultimate edition or a massive sale), but because I'm gonna wait to see whether the developers give in to the cries of the community and change the ending of their game post-launch again (Which is, apparently, a pretty unpopular opinion, but whatever^^). Waited on buying Inquisition for just that reason
The difference between the video game crash and now, is parents were mostly buying the games, nowadays the gaming industry is so huge that the majority of games are bought by the people who are going to play them. Unfortunately most gamers don't have the fortitude, and don't educate themselves. I am definitely buying less games at launch now then I ever have.
Glad Colin is calling this out, Iv'e been severely disappointed this fall with games. Fallout 4 is painfully slow, freezing for 10 seconds after saving ,long load times going through every door. Just cause 3 isn't much better, The frame rate hasn't been a bother to me on the Xbone and it looks nice and feels great. The gear challenges combined with it's loading times can make for a frustrating experience though. I think Just Cause is getting too much crap considering Bethesda dropped an open world rpg filled with absurd loading screens three weeks before to much better scores. Halo was really good at launch even without it's varied multiplayer match types. Needless to say however, I'll be waiting for review scores and price drops next fall.
Colin needs a ranting podcast, want to see another cross with Jim Sterling! Thank God For Them!
The persona team is underrated, before I get called a weeb, it's true. They don't release lot of games but when they do its polished, and genuinely unique experiences. They take time to make sure their games work, and don't rush their product.
Preach it brother Colin! One point that I'm not sure I agree with. Take 343 Industries for example. They released the MCC and it was broken. From all accounts Halo 5 is solid/pretty good. If we choose not to buy Halo 5 doesn't that punish a quality product for the failings of a different product? Especially when you consider that there might be different teams working on MCC vs. Halo 5. I think a better approach (imo) would be for gamers to stop pre-ordering and buying games sight unseen on day 1. If you had seen news sights a week or two after MCC released you could have seen the issues that exist. Then by not buying THAT game you would place the blame on the project that deserved it. A year down the line and 343 releases Halo 5 and a week or two in everyone says its solid, so you buy it. Thereby rewarding a project that was successful. Also, having effective refund systems, such as steam, allow you to get your money back if the product turns out to be fucked after the first week you bought it.
lol with due respect to Colin and the kindafunny guys. The reason games are being released broken these days is mostly due to the fact that the gaming media have over the past 10 years utterly failed in their responsibility to adjust ratings for broken ass poorly tested games. Add this to the culture of pre order bonuses etc etc. It's no real suprise.
Bethesda being the prime example of such a publisher. It does not matter how good a game could be if the game you actually get is buggy as hell, and yet they Always get a free pass because the "games are big" lol.
Main thing Don't buy preorder games EVER. Secondly side note: if you do not want to see more insanely expensive season passes and DLC " DO NOT BUY IT" it's really not that hard.
I really wish that game creators will take a RETAIL COPY on a disc, not the dev version, put that disc into a retail console (again not the developer console) and play through the game before releasing it. this was my exact thought when I played AC Unity on day one, along with other games that have significant issues. I wonder if the hardware they use during development to test the game is giving a different experience from a retail setup. I don't know if it's possible to do the retail copy thing because of logistics but I think that a lot of issues would be blatantly obvious to the devs/publishers or whomever if they did this, AC Unity had serious problems for me the first day I played it, same with fallout 4 when I lost 14 hours due to broken quests (not to mention visual glitches).
I think the word Colin was looking for is polish. Most of these issues just speak to a lack of polish and care given by these developers to their games. That's what makes people respect Nintendo games and Naughty Dog games so much, because every game they make has so much genuine care, respect and passion that can be clearly seen in everything they do, from the release and readiness of the game, to every inch of the game itself. I feel like other than the very very best, most of these "good, but not great" games have that unpolished feel, where, even if there are no issues at launch, there's just something lacking with these games now that a game like South Park had.
size isn't really reliant either, nice look to the camera Tim. lol
How come I cant load this video? Ive been waiting for 5 minutes, its not loading.
This is exactly why I haven't purchased a new game in 5 or so years. It's just not worth it any more. Well that and my backlog is so atrocious that I always have something to play.
You guys should do a topic on dlc and season passes and how some games that are announced with these are released with little content.
Fallout 4 on consoles. took them a month to address a patch that breaks the game at an early point around the Commonwealth Institute of Technology
I've done that waiting game for past 4 years. Picking them up from Steam sales is a plus and even with my current game library I wont be done for a year.
Not to say I do that with all devs. Bioware and Blizzard games I still tend to buy on the first week.
The short answer is money.
This is an industry. The vision and scope of modern games and their creators becomes bigger every year and there isn't always the inclination to give these things the time they need in the face of profits.
Why delay our target release window when we can launch on time, pull the best haul, and placate the unsatisfied with "updates", patches, ect.
I personally stopped buying games day 1 a few years ago for this exact issue. I expect almost every game to be "broken" day 1 especially a MP focused game. I will just buy it a month or 2 later at a significant discount and patches will be ready for me.
It has crossed my mind that it's at such a stage now that an investigation into whether your rights are being effected as a consumer is really called for now. Essentially gaming customers are being taken for fools. I don't buy from ubisoft or ea any more, in the last year I've started to just wait it out before shelling out cash for any game as it could potentially be broken or buggy. What blows my mind is that people actually still pre-order, that's just insane in this market, don't be tempted in by the shiny baubles. A DLC season pass is a joke as well, I got roped into that once with Bioshock Infinite, that's the one and only time that will ever happen to me, I was lucky to get it cut price in a steam sale though so by waiting I limited the damage. But beyond all that, surely there is a consumer rights issue here? When we buy a game on release day it isn't unreasonable to expect it to work without further patches etc. I'd suggest that broken and buggy games are now such a common problem that our rights are being effected. If that's too far then maybe more people will become like minded and just avoid buying until it is clear that a game is in a working state. One topic that hasn't been raised here is that it creates mistrust between the reviewer and reader when bugs or problems with a game are not mentioned in the review. I do think there is a responsibility on the reviewer to make note of these things in order that people can make a more informed purchase, it's really never the case though. Reviewers seem more tied to the games company then the gamer in this respect.
As Colin often says: Vote with your wallet. If you get a broken game, return it for a refund. Hit the publishers where it hurts.
Not many retailers let you return opened games for a refund. At least new games, anyway.
I'm not sure what the laws are like in the US, but in the UK we can return any product if it is sold faulty. We just can't return software if we simply changed our minds. Except with Steam, now we can do that too.
+Code: Marla Canadian here. I heard the UK just passed a consumer rights act that allows people to return their games if they don't feel the game is any good. You guys are so lucky I wish Canada would take up that law and then games will be great again! :D
+Cody Liepins I wasn't aware of that (except on Steam). I'll have a look into that. :)
+Code: Marla yeah at least that's what I heard... Let me know!!!
I think there was/is a way bigger problem this year. In my eyes it has been the year of the fucking seasonpasses prior release
,half completed games which need DLC to be a real game and microtransactions as always. It's getting worst and worst every year. #Colin is right. It was not possible back in the days to update and now they take totall advantage of all those things.
Colin hot out of the gates on this one! Love it.
shit like this actually makes me miss N64 cartridge games...
Funny that you mentioned Until Dawn working day one, because it's one of the few games I bought a physical copy of on day (or week) one and I had an issue where it wouldn't let me pick up the first totem and couldn't progress with the games story. Had to restart my playthrough, and it worked the second time. It turned me off from the game and ruined the immersion. I ended up checking patch notes every now and then and saw that it was fixed I believe in patch 1.03 (not sure the exact patch number, but if you check their history you'll see it).
LBP 3 = $60 = tons of problems.
LBP 3 = $20 = works just fine.
I'm glad I waited.
To the credit of what I believe to be the best developer:Rockstar Games(even better than Naughty Dog). They at least gave players half a million in-game dollars when GTA Online first launched and messed players' saves up. I think more developers should give early adopters a free season pass or some kind of reward to players who bought their broken game.
I bought Battlefield 4 day one and it was broken to shit, so I held off on Hardline and I'm glad I did. Now Battlefront is seeing similar issues and locking such a considerable percentage of it's content behind an absurdly priced paywall. I don't know what happened to DICE, but I'm glad I learned my lesson early.
Bastion came to Vita, Greg must be happy!!
I won't even buy WB games anymore, and I loved Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City (and Mortal Kombat IX also). Between their PC problems with Knight, and how Arkham Origin has a game breaking bug that they refused to fix because they needed to put out more DLC. And the fact their DLC is really weak, but they harp on it like crazy. Yea, I don't blame Rocksteady, I definitely blame WB. Forget it. Not touching another one of their games until they show these things have changed. There are other examples, but that is a big one.I checked PC reviews for Fallout 4 before I bought it. Had to find out if it was as broken as 3 or NV. Would have totally waited if it had, and I was mega-hyped for that game, sheesh! I will absolutely not pre-order the season pass, but I am glad it exists, since if anything on it is worth it, I will wait till it goes on Steam Sale to buy it. Heh.
We should start Twitter bombardments on publishers and developers when a game is released half-assed.
I still haven't bought Fallout 4 for PC. Waiting for one or two more updates. I had 100+ hours into The Witcher 3 before some patches arrived that improved the game (not that it was bad on PC but it had quest bugs etc) Ironically i tried to play the Hearts Of Stone DLC last week and it keeps crashing. But yeah i'm avoiding new games until updates come out.
now developers are used to the scale of projects on the current generation of consoles I expect that companies will factor the extra month or so needed for the product and these broken releases will happen less and less. day one updates are actually a good thing, the problem is when they don't smooth things over, but actually make the games work.
After hearing this rant quite a few times it's turned me as well. I don't buy nearly as many games on launch as I used too. Support what I want to support and deserves it and wait on the ones that don't.
No more buying from WB, Ubisoft, EA, and Konami. That limits my market but I just won't.
+Euler But you have a Metal Gear avy??
ok bro. so um, what games you gonna play lol
+Luke Skywalker Nintendo......
+Luke Skywalker he can still play Bethesda games we all know how perfect at launch those games are
+Transfiguration So? There is no more Metal Gear.
Its a strange situation that I honestly dont know a solution to. You cant just say "dont buy it" because to be blunt, if you love the franchise you will buy the game no matter the hearsay of bugs and broken parts. Its strange though because can you imagine if film companies released blu ray (hd) films at standard def, with a patch to make it 1080p later. Or maybe you get a special edition of a film but the deleted scenes and blooper reals are not released until months later? The industry would collapse, and no one would stand for it. So why do gamers put up with it? I dont have an answer as I recently lapped up Just Cause 3 and will probably buy Just Cause 4 despite the horrid launch of the third game.