What People Get Wrong About Vancouver [LIVING IN VANCOUVER]
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- This video is all about what people get wrong about Vancouver, BC. Vancouver is one of those cities that just about everyone has an opinion on. Not all of those opinions are positive. But, are they justified?
If you are thinking of moving to Vancouver, you’ll want to get a handle on what its really like to live in Vancouver. Take it from me, a lifelong Vancouver resident and someone that has helped hundreds of families move to metro Vancouver.
So, thinking of moving to Vancouver? Watch this video to the end to understand if the rumors and stereotypes about Vancouver are true...or if they're simply misconceptions of life in Vancouver.
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Agree 100 percent on rain. I used to live NV now White Rock….massive, massive difference. 7 or 8 months of the year, the climate is fine, summer is perfect. A holiday away between Nov and March helps. Although rain is (usually) snow higher up. Very dry winter this year.
White Rock is a beautiful part of Metro Vancouver. I'm jealous...especially for your summers!
I adore the city I was born and raised in. It's fun, fascinating, kind and gorgeous!! Terrific video!!
Thank you @christinecamley...I agree with you 100%! Appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. :)
@@LivingInVancouver-BC YW!! Be well!! 🙂
and you too!
@@LivingInVancouver-BC TY!!
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Thank you Sebastian 😊. You are my Vancouver guru. I have lived it lot of big cities NYC Toronto London now Ottawa but Vancouver is my final stop. The more I look into it the more I am amazed great job. When I am ready you will be my #1 call. I sold my whole family on it 😊. My only question is how is the medical, family doctor are easier to find how are the Hospitals clinics etc.. We are all healthy thank God but just curious otherwise you covered pretty much everything that I can possibly think of and thank you for the excellent content and always keeping it 💯🔥
Oh, thank you so much @MTN99999! I'm really happy to hear you've found my content helpful in making such a big decision for you and your family.
I'm assuming that you are asking if there's a shortage of doctors at Vancouver hospitals, and how that might impact the quality of care? Vancouver hospitals are incredible, to be honest. The system prioritizes providing the highest level of service where there is the greatest density of population...so the quality of care in Vancouver (vs less dense areas of BC) is world-class. Sure, there can be wait times...but mostly, that's because some people go to the emergency if they get a cold (wait times can also be checked online before heading to a hospital/clinic so you can decide which one would be best to attend).
Let me know if you have any other questions!
@LivingInVancouver-BC My pleasure 😊 and yes indeed it is a big decision and I am setting myself and a my family for better family balanced life close to the ocean nature and mountains with less harsh weather 😀.
Thank you for your input same here in Ottawa world class medical facilities but a lot of people don't have a family Dr and tend to go to the hospitals for minor illnesses and clogging the systems it seems to be a nationwide issue I guess.
I will most definitely reach out to get the consultation call when we are ready. In the meantime take good care of yourself and your family 🙏🏾
My pleasure @MTN99999! And yes, I think the issues around healthcare are similar in all the major Canadian cities. I look forward to connecting with you when the time comes. :)
Completely fair video, thanks!
Thank you @g59490155! :)
Hi Sebastian. Have you ever thought of doing a review on Delta/Tsawwassen? Also the UBC area where a lot of new condos are being built?
@marcberrenson570 Yes, for sure. On the list. But easier to do when the weather gets better. ;)
Your sushi is very cheap. We get good prices at a local Chinese grocery store in Ontario, but the quality, portions and value we got from a local restaurant on Alma street was stunning. $30 to feed a family of four - take out. In my journey of exploring Van city, I'm finding the taxes are slightly lower, but not by a huge amount and the hydro rates in BC aren't much cheaper, but they don't have you jumping through hoops like Ontario. I can get 2.8 cents per Kwh, but that's after 11PM, costing as high as 28.6 cents from 4PM to 9PM... Things just don't feel as rushed, are more relaxed and don't have us jumping through hoops to get value. Another good video. Your audio also sounds better and far fewer jump cuts - I also love the use of B roll. You might consider framing so the top of your hair line is closer to the top of the frame.
Thank you @OrdinaryFilmmaker! I threw sushi in there as a bit of a joke, but it's true...it's plentiful, (relatively) cheap, and high quality. Appreciate the feedback and you continuing to share your thoughts!
A while back when my wife and kids saw the great sushi options and prices they were ready to move 😅
Haha. Maybe it's a bigger selling point on Vancouver than I thought! ;)
@@LivingInVancouver-BC Most definitely 😅
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Can you do vidios focusing on one location? I would love to see Robson. It reminds me of Beverly hills of vancouver
Hey @rickprocure6321! Do you mean like the videos I've done in the past on North Vancouver or Mount Pleasant? I intend to do more neighborhood vlog tours in the future...but the winter weather here makes filming outdoors a challenge. That's why I've been doing more indoor stuff. I'm not sure that I'd do a video JUST on Robson, but I'd certainly include it on a video on the West End down the road. Thanks for continuing to watch!
I'm from Toronto and the property taxes in Toronto are low! Now that I'm in Vancouver, I find the property taxes to be slightly higher than Toronto's, but fairly similar.
I'm not sure what you are comparing @J00b956...but the mill rate for Toronto (0.666274%) is more than double that of Vancouver (0.27807%). Check out this site and you can see how much lower the mill rate is in Vancouver compared to everywhere else in Canada: www.zoocasa.com/blog/property-taxes-canada-2023/ Winnipeg's is nearly 10x that of Vancouver's!
I left a few negative/disagreeing comments but I don’t want to come off like a totally grumpy person. I enjoyed the video. I think most of the points you made were spot on and definitely myths. Except for Vancouver being boring and not friendly is not a myth and 100% true. 😂
No worries @nicktankard1244. It's OK to disagree with me....but I do appreciate you saying that you enjoyed the video! I do believe you are mistaken, but that's ok. We can disagree on these relatively minor issues. I do hope that you come around and see Vancouver in a more positive light, though.
People, not places are boring. @@LivingInVancouver-BC
That's a good point @epermute....and I don't disagree with you.
@@LivingInVancouver-BC @epermute I disagree. Cities exist for a reason, and some cities have much more to offer than others. Yes, you can create your own fun, but if you go to a secluded village, your options will be severely limited. Some places offer much more options to have fun than others. Saying that people are boring is silly. It all comes down to a place having stuff that you want to do. For someone who loves surfing, an island in the ocean would be the best place ever and fun. But for pretty much everyone else, it will be boring af with nothing to do.
@@epermute some people are perfectly happy living in rural places. They don’t need all the culture and urban stuff. I envy them because it’s usually cheaper and they can live anywhere. Are they boring? Probably not. They just enjoy different things in life. But I’m not like that. I like cultural and urban things. So I like living in a city that offers a lot of options to do those things. Vancouver does not, in my opinion. It feels like a 200k people town in terms of options to have fun and not a 3m urban area. It is truly a “no fun” city. So I think that reputation is well deserved and not a myth.
I had the pleasure of vacationing in Vancouver for 6 days, back in 2007. My friends and I agreed that the city was absolutely beautiful!! As an African American, I found people in Vancouver to be very friendly and open... way moreso than many American cities. Was it as ethnically diverse as Toronto? No, but enough communities were represented to give the city some degree of international flare. My Asian friends fondly call the city "Hongcouver", and LGBTQ folx that I know there seem to have a functional sense of community. It's hard to believe that 17 years have passed and I haven't returned, but hopefully the city has kept its sense of openness and inclusion. Again, the city was stunning in its beauty. Having Stanley Park close to downtown was a highlight.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your experience @MrPman474. I hope that you get a chance to come back to Vancouver for another visit! I think you'll find that the same spirit of inclusion exists in Vancouver. It's one of the things that I love about this city...and I think many of us here don't realize how rare that is in the world in recent years. Where were you visiting from?
@@LivingInVancouver-BC I live in South Florida. We flew up to Seattle for a few days, then took the Amtrak train directly to Vancouver. Nice ride, and it only took an hour. The city is definitely on my to-visit-again list!!!
That's a long trip. You must have been very determined to come up here for a visit. I don't think there's a less convenient journey in North America! What made you want to come and visit Vancouver? I've never been to Florida. I guess Cuba is as close as I've ever been...but I have a feeling that there are a few cultural differences. ;) One day, maybe I'll get a chance to enjoy your corner of tropical paradise.
@LivingInVancouver-BC LOL, it was definitely a long trip from Miami/Ft.Lauderdale! I had seen lots of Vancouver still shots, and was instantly hooked by the beauty. It didn't disappoint. ❤️ I actually love Canada and Canadians. I travel outside of the US a couple times a year, and always look for Canadians to hang out with. My family took me to Niagara Falls and Quebec several times as a kid. I went to Toronto a few years after my trip to Vancouver. My next goal is to hit Banff and Calgary. It looks just as beautiful (Lake Louise is always on some yearly calendar!). But as you said, it's not easy to get there from Florida. 🫤
Cool! The rockies are not to be missed...and I bet Banff will blow your mind. In terms of natural beauty I don't think Vancouver really compares...we are just a good balance between city life and nature, I think. I hope you get to continue to explore Canada. The maritimes (Canada's easternmost provinces) are worth checking out, too. A very unique region that even many Canadians forget exist.
Would you walk around Hastings and Main at night?
I have...yes. I've spent a fair amount of time on the downtown Eastside, in fact.
I suspect your point is that the area isn't safe. I'd agree that it would make many people feel uncomfortable. It's probably not recommended, but for the most part if you leave the people in that area alone, they'll leave you alone.
I think that's what different than many cities in North America and the world. There's no area that's really off-limits. Vancouver (in relative terms) is unbelievably safe.
I didn't get into crime as in depth as I've done in other videos....but you can check out this video (ruclips.net/video/IVLU4OrkDNQ/видео.html) if you'd like to see my more detailed thoughts on crime in Vancouver. Basically, I state that the city is safe but there are some areas that would be better avoided (like Main and Hastings or the Granville Strip on a Saturday night)...and that the crime we do have has it's epicenter at Main and Hastings and impacts the neighborhoods directly adjacent the most.
I have many times. I live not far and lots of concerts happen at the Rickshaw theater in that area so I’m there after midnight on a regular basis. So far I haven’t had any troubles. It’s a bit sketchy and you have to be alert but it’s not dangerous like some cities in the US I’ve been to.
Agree @nicktankard1244 :)
@@LivingInVancouver-BC grew up in bc and lived in Van. Now insert a 20 year old pretty girl into that scenario and the your notion of 'is unbelievably safe' evaporates.
@kitties-of-doom Sorry...I'm not quite clear on what you are saying?
True about property taxes (and shushi) my US niece pays 15000 per year on a one million dollar home. I pay about 6000 on a 2.2 million dollar home.
Yeah. I realized this when I had a client about 15 years ago sell his $300K condo in Vancouver and move to New Jersey. He bought a house there for that amount of money and was paying about $12K/year in property taxes. Insane!
Don't know if you are going to mention this, but if you "live in Vancouver" you likely don't actually live in Vancouver and probably don't even work in Vancouver. 750k residents in Vancouver City versus 3 million plus in the Lower Mainland. Commuting patterns have always shown more trips between suburbs than in/out of downtown. Most suburbs have good outdoor opportunities but most of them do not have access to sandy beaches or much nightlife. And most are not really bike friendly. Most people live East/South of the Fraser. There are many pleasant livable communities but it's not the downtown highrise postcard Vancouver. There's lots of sushi everywhere, you're right!
100% accurate @helenelittmann8875. You are right, this point could definitely have been mentioned in this video....but I didn't think to at the time. I have mentioned it in previous videos, though...and did a video (Why You Won't Be Moving to Vancouver) on this topic specifically a little while ago: ruclips.net/video/TAledzRWvrY/видео.html Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Nightlife only applies to a narrow segment of society. There are plenty of pubs etc in the burbs, but not many night clubs. Last club I went to was about 20 years ago. @@LivingInVancouver-BC
Very true @epermute...it's been about that long for me too. ;)
No FUN City was actually the name of a documentary, specific to the loss of live music venues. The name stuck. Nightlife was always muted, outside of that (which most don’t care about past 30) Vancouver has plenty to do.
@epermute I agree with you! The club scene and after hours isn't dazzling in Vancouver...but I'm way too old for that anyways. Otherwise, I find that there's plenty of fun to be had in Vancouver!
The Violent Crime Severity Index is up 25 percent over the past 5 years.
I only looked at the CSI and it's significant drop in the five years we have last reported (2018 - 2022) from 107.19 down to 91.99. But, you are right, there was a jump in that time from 95.25 to 105.99. The biggest jump (nearly 7%) being from 2021 to 2022.
The thing is, since 2013, Vancouver's Violent CSI decline 3.6% while it INCREASED nationally 32% over that time. And 2022 was the highest violent CSI level nationally since 2007...so it wasn't just Vancouver that saw a big bump in 2022. It's a number, I believe that increased due to COVID restrictions and the impacts that had on mental health.
Thanks for commenting and continuing to watch the channel, @epermute!
COVID and Decrim @@LivingInVancouver-BC ..,very real rise in organized crime and gun violence. VCSI is up yearviver year,
@epermute can you explain what you are referring to by decrim?
I love this city too , but I have to move to coquitlam for I cant not afford the house here.
I don't know, Coquitlam is pretty nice. I was actually just there this afternoon...I love the connection to the outdoors!
Moved to Vancouver about 25 years ago. Vancouver is boring. sure, maybe 15 years ago. Vancouver went through massive transformation the last 15 years and these past 5 years, it finally got it right. Now it has the vibe of a major international cosmopolitan city, Not just a big city like Toronto.
I agree @frankpeng2448...in the last ten years or so there's so much more going on than before. That was kinda my point about the "no fun city" label. It's outdated. But I'm not sure what you mean about the difference between a major international cosmopolitan city and not just a big city? Do you mean that it's more unique and not just another big city?
@@LivingInVancouver-BC The shift came when the provincial flavor of the city which some locals fought hard to retain gave way to the inevitable natural push of diversity and international mindsets. Toronto is different because it is so big and almost half of Canadians live in Ontario, It is still a very provincial city despite the facade of an international city. I have lived and had extended stays in a few major international cities. Lived in Toronto for 2 years and lived in the US for 15 years. I get that international vibe now in Vancouver which I never felt years ago. Also with the recent influx of immigrants, Vancouver's somewhat understated international image was brought to the forefront.
@frankpeng2448 As you said, there's certainly a lot more going on now than 20 years ago that's for sure.
Traffic sucks…..transit is not great, unless you live along a transit corridor. Does not compare to Europe. The core is very walkable and cycle friendly.
Yeah Downtown and a few neighborhoods outside if it are the only livable places in this entire metro area. But it doesn’t have everything. Like all the good movie theaters are in the suburbs. And the only 2 imax theaters are pretty far. Everything else is suburban wasteland. And you can’t get out of the core without driving in traffic on these poorly designed roads or spending hours on transport. For example a trip to the Brentwood mall from Fraser st takes 20 min by car if there is no traffic and almost an hour by transit with multiple connections. Going to UBC and that part of Vancouver is a nightmare. Not even talking about pedestrian comfort anywhere outside of downtown. It’s not pleasant usually with dangerous crossings, cars turning right on red without looking, constant beg buttons and sidewalks that are too close to speeding cars.
well, then Europe transit is NOTHING comparing to Japan. Japan does wayyyy better than Europe on different levels.
@@immigrationpmo7004 that’s actually not true imo. Japan does trains the best but it’s missing the short distance stuff like trams. That’s a common opinion among urbanists. Some parts of Europe are easier to get around than Japan. Also Europe is a big place. Switzerland does trains almost as good as Japan and they have trams as well
@@immigrationpmo7004I’ve been to Japan and the trains there are amazing but there are bunch of areas not served by a train station but too far to just walk. So often it turns a 15 min tram ride in a European city into a 40 min walk or a 30 min walk + train in Tokyo.
I live in whiterock on the beach. It’s a great place to live.@@nicktankard1244
Last check, Norco Mountain bikes still around. 😂 Before Y2K, BC was nice. Honestly, not anymore. I love my memorable wintering there, snowshoeing in Grouse, Cypress and Whistler Blackcomb County. Alas, drugs, homelessness and Neo-liberalism will drive many out. 😇
@clementihammock7572 Things have changed a lot...but one thing that hasn't changed is the politics of Vancouver. It's always been left-leaning politically. Although, perhaps you are referring to the switch of the provincial governing party? That also tends to go from one extreme to the other here in BC. Left, right, left, right. Provincially, we are very dramatic politically.
As someone who spent 5 or 6 years working outdoors primarily in North Van, I can confidently say that there are only 5 or 6 days a year where it rains all day long. Almost always, if it’s raining in the morning it won’t be in the afternoon and vice versa.
@ivorytelecaster Appreciate you watching and sharing your experience. I'm not sure if I said otherwise in the video...but if I did, it would have been only to convey that North Vancouver gets significantly more precipitation (more frequent and heavier rain) than most other areas of Metro Vancouver. You are 100% correct, though. It rarely rains for an entire day without stopping.
@@LivingInVancouver-BCI wasn’t contradicting you, just trying to reinforce your point that the rain in vancouver isn’t nearly as bad as everyone claims.
100% @ivorytelecaster! :)
The city is dull compared to European cities. Also, people have become quite snobby on the west side. I don't remember people being so arrogant.
Sure. I won't argue too much with you on this. Overall, I think you have a point. BUT Vancouver is way more fun than York or Kassel. But obviously, not nearly as much going on as Berlin or London. My point being...the biggest differences come down to population rather than the continent. We have to compare Vancouver to cities of an equal size.
@@LivingInVancouver-BCit is more fun than Kassel but also it takes just 3 hours to get from Kassel to Berlin on a train. So you can go to Berlin for a weekend and have all the fun you want. York is just 2 hours away from Manchester/Liverpool or 3 hours from London. Fast trains is a huge advantage in Europe. You can live in a smaller place and go to a bigger place for fun.
These never ending comparisons to Europe really translate to subdued night life and lack of museums and art galleries….in other words culture, what ever that is@@LivingInVancouver-BC….If that’s a priority, Vancouver will disappoint. The setting is astonishing and should be embraced. Would you go to London and complain about poor access to the outdoors?
Oh come on . ….I’m British. It’s not like jaunts across the UK or Europe are daily events. Yes, those are great aspects to Europe. Did you look at the map before you moved here? You must be a typical moaning Brit. @@nicktankard1244
@nicktankard1244 Right. But it's NOT Europe. @epermute is right that obviously we can't (and don't) compete with night life, museums or art galleries...but that's not where fun begins and ends...there are regular concerts, amazing restaurants, decent bars, sports of all types and levels, big and small concerts, conferences, meetups, classes, etc. You know all the things that are appropriate for a city of it's size.
@epermute Yep. Agreed. The main issue I've been disagreeing with @nicktankard1244 is that he claims that Vancouver's reputation as being "no fun" is well deserved. I disagree as I feel there is tons to do in Vancouver...and it's not only nature. We have all of the benefits of a decent sized city PLUS the benefits of a natural wonderland around us. And yes, that Vancouver's culture isn't Europe's. It's not that we don't have any, it's that it's different...and if you move to a place you can't expect the same. You need to embrace the difference.
Vancouver is a fun city. We can riot at the drop of a hat.
Incorrect @glennelliott708. We only (in recent history at least) riot if the Vancouver Canucks lose ('94 and '11). Obviously, we take our hockey VERY seriously. ;)
@@LivingInVancouver-BCa new riot it might be incoming this season :)
Nope. No need for a riot if we don't lose.
Again have to disagree with you. Vancouverites are not friendly. One description I’ve seen puts it perfectly “People in Vancouver are polite but not friendly”. I moved here 2 years ago and I have 0 friends and I tried. Even in bars. Nobody wants to hang out. Wasn’t a big problem in other cities I’ve lived in.
I don’t do sports so that eliminates a large chunk of people who don’t want to hang out with me. You mentioned EPL football. I’m a huge fan but haven’t been able to find anyone who likes it as well.
Part of it I think is the “non fun” point. There are just not as many social events here to hang out with people by various interests.
These stereotypes don’t come from nowhere. Lots of people are struggling with social life here. And it’s not a myth for sure in my experience. 100% true
The thing is, just as many people that I know and talk to have really positive experiences connecting with people in Vancouver. I understand that this has been your experience...but it hasn't been mine or many people that I know. I've found the best ways to connect with people in Vancouver isn't over booze, though...it's through activities. And there are CONSTANTLY events throughout the city where you can connect with people.
As for EPL, it's not my thing. I'm a Bayern Munich fan ;) ...but I know people that live and die by it. They watch all the games at different bars around the city...Butcher and Bullock is one that I've heard of if you are a Liverpool fan...and the pub at Library Square I think is less specific but very football friendly.
@@LivingInVancouver-BC Bayern or no :) I support Union Berlin as I used to live there.
Not sure what events are you talking about. There is nothing I’ve seen that interest me. Activities yeah but as I said I’m not into that since I have mobility issues. So all the sporty stuff is not for me.
@nicktankard1244 Events like conferences, meetups, festivals, workshops, clubs, courses, etc. Have you checked out Meetup.com? There are endless groups of people connecting over very specific interests...from quiz nights, to dungeons and dragons or women into Australian Rules Football. I've made this point in some of my videos...no matter your interests, you can find your people in Vancouver. It's a very open and inclusive city.
@@LivingInVancouver-BC I have checked it out. Very few meetups here. Also pretty much no tech conferences and meetups that interesting me. Ofc Vancouver is no Berlin where there are dozens of tech meetups.
@@nicktankard1244 best leave..,not for you. My e feeling is you are trying to live here as you have elsewhere. Either embrace the differences or leave. I struggled at first trying to find the British Pub life, it doesn’t exist. Reinvent your life here and focus on what is different and not what you can’t find.
Vancouver is 100% boring. Not a myth. The most boring city I’ve ever lived in. I’m extremely bored after 2 years of living here. There is absolutely nothing to do in the city. I’ve seen a video recently where a guy was saying that Vancouver lacks culture and I agree. Fun is subjective but when a lot of people say a place is boring there is probably something to it. And I’ve talked to a lot of people who moved here and think it’s the most boring city ever.
PS. Yes there are some good concerts that’s true. But that’s like ~20 days per year you’re entertained. I went to a Bill Burr show recently it was fun.
@nicktankard1244 I strongly disagree...but obviously this is subjective. It really depends on what you find fun and entertaining. My point is that the "fun" of Vancouver is appropriate for it's size. It's not NYC, Toronto or Berlin. But, we have an abundance of restaurants and bars, events, concerts, sporting events and festivals...not to mention the access to the outdoors. Clubbing on the other hand? Yeah. That might not be our forte. What do you feel is missing?
@@LivingInVancouver-BCI don’t feel like it’s appropriate for its size. It’s an urban area of 3m but ofc it’s typical North American suburbia so there is not much of anything outside of Vancouver itself.
Concerts I mentioned but lots of bands skip Vancouver still. Often they come to Seattle but not Vancouver which is right there but across the border. Bars here absolutely suck. There is no pub culture or cozy bars where you can hang out with strangers or regulars. It’s mostly big halls with tables where people sit in groups. Restaurants are decent sure but I don’t count that as fun. There are basically no good museums or any interesting cultural events. Sports? Really? White Caps suck and the stadium is always empty and tickets are expensive and it’s boring compared to any European experience. One lower tier baseball team. One NHL team and that’s it. I don’t count Canadian football because it’s the most boring sport ever lol. Outdoors is not the city. It’s what the person i mentioned was saying. All people say about Vancouver is how great the nature outside of it is. And it is great but it’s not what I care about in a city and it’s not culture.
come live in Winnipeg. Size is bigger than Vancouver but its bored to death. And you'll get stabbed for sure if you're in downtown.
@@immigrationpmo7004 oh yeah not comparing to that. The rest of Canada is a frozen suburban wasteland for the most part. But nobody talks about Winnipeg as a great city. Most people don’t even know it outside of Canada. Vancouver is often in top livable cities lists and people talk about it like it’s a great city. I think it’s a pretty mediocre and boring city surrounded by great nature. Does not compare to any of the great cities around the world in terms of fun and culture. Even cities of a similar size.
Hahaha @immigrationpmo7004! True.
You raise some accurate observations, but as a born and raised Vancouverite, I have had many experiences and become aware of many aspects of the city that contribute to my belief that it's "No Fun City."
One time, I was just having a drink alone by the water and a policeman came, and told me I have to pour out my whole 6 pack or face getting fined. That's probably the worst thing that the city threw at me, but it's just scratching the surface of the drawbacks of living here as a young person.
Thanks @bigballz4u (!!). I hear you...as another born and raised Vancouverite I really think it's a bad rap. Yes, the liquor laws were archaic...but they continually are getting more modern (for instance we now allow open liquor in certain (or is it all now?) public parks. But really, it's not about liquor laws when it comes down to it in my opinion. There's a lot going on in our city all the time and just about any definition of fun can be found (in my opinion). Appreciate you sharing your experience, by the way!