Update: Apparently 2.E.6.F isn’t in the USAP rulebook. If you got to USAP's website for equipment standards, the link goes to the Nov 2023 manual which has 2.E.6.F, while the 2024 rulebook for the game rules contains the new equipment standards which apparently does not have rule 2.E.6.F anymore. I was reading the Nov 2023 manual for the video because that’s what their site links me to.
Is this another sign that USAP does not want to control the direction of the game and has given into the paddle companies desire to maximize profits with the trend to more and more powerful paddles, which is dramatically changing the game. Not in a good way. Dare I say... time for USAP to get some BALLS!
If you take a look at the list of rule changes, you'll find rule change ID 1352 which describes the move of 2.E.6.e (removable parts) to only appear in the equipment standards manual. I believe this means that the rules listed in the equipment standards manual can differ from those found in the rule book even while staying applicable. I can't find any rule change that shows them moving 2.E.6.f from the rule book to just the equipment standards, but I would suspect that something similar to that may have happened prior to them providing records of rule changes. Therefore, I think that it's still a valid concern to ask about 2.E.6.f considering it still remains in the equipment standards that have not been changed and can apparently contain requirements that don't need to be in the overall rule book itself.
Agree with what was said. Though wish this negativity on foam and USAP was more discussed on the multi million dollar corporation Joola video rather than the small family owned company
"It's meant to loosen up as you use it" I interpret this as: it's USA pickleball approved when new - but over time turns into the power paddle everyone wants approved up front but can't get.
This review is nothing like my experience with my ONI, which I got Saturday, its So MUCH better than the Gen 3 Joolas, my son sold his Joola after one day of playing with the ONI. Wow I dont know what to say about this review other than its really really bad advice. Its so NOT like a JOOLA GEN 3.
@@michaellei2578 I’m going to do my best to see it through! I definitely had a break in period where the paddle got noticeably more powerful (around 5-6 hours of play) but have not had inconsistency in the core nor any of the other issues mentioned here - I do not use as much power in my game as many others do, so I anticipate that if I was to have a similar issues, it might take a while longer as I’ve had the paddle a while and haven’t had it happen yet - I’ll keep people up to date! 👌
BRING THE HEAT AND TRUTH BOMBS!!! So refreshing compared to the reviewers the rush reviews out to be first to get their ‘discount codes’ out. This a real statement of a review. U R NOT A SELLOUT.
Thanks for the review Chris. I was tempted to get new gen 3 and asked Chris Dickert if Legacy was going to come out with a gen 3 since I've been very happy with my 3 Legacy paddles. He replied that they are already on their third generation and sticking with therma formed construction. So your review has "cooled my jets" about getting the latest and greatest new thing. As always, I've learned to rely on your honest and and no nonsense reviews. Sorry I didn't get a chance to say hi at the Open. Maybe next year.
That was Chris’s way of saying “no, we aren’t making any Gen 3 paddles”. Legacy just drop ships Chinese factory paddles, so they don’t have the option of bringing a Gen 3 to market until Chinese factories have them in their catalog.
Thanks Chris for the review, and let me add that I was little worried something had happened to you (sick or something) when this video didn't come out on launch day. I held off ordering the Oni mostly because I'm waiting for the long handle version...now I'm not so sure. I agree USAP really needs to better regulate these paddles. They are behind and I have no idea how the gen 3 paddles comply with 2.E.6.f Keep up the good, honest reviews.
Thanks for the informative review. There is so much marketing, smoke and mirrors in the world of pickleball paddles. I’d love to see a “behind the scenes” documentary that discusses where and how various paddles are made.
With great power comes great responsibility. Chris resisted pressure to release review fast to take time to investigate responsibly. Fair and honest review resulted.
I’m a racquet head, coming to pickleball from tennis & I appreciate the objectivity here. Nothing worse than a bunch of reviews that say nothing remotely bad about a racquet or paddle
Thanks for being completely honest in this review! I saw another reviewer saying the Oni is great for beginner/intermediate players but after seeing how the Oni pops on drops, I suspect that reviewer was just trying to get people to use their Vatic code.
Not sure which review that is, but to their credit, they may not have used the paddle enough to get to the "break in" stage. Had I done a first look video on this with only one session, I might have had very similar thoughts. The longer it got used, the more the issue got shown. So, there's a chance it wasn't just to shove a code and that they just didn't experience what I did.
@@PickleballStudio good insight, you're probably right it could have been a first look since they probably didn't have enough time with it prior to the review
USAP has to speak out about the controversy around foam paddles. I think it’s ridiculous how these paddles are still allowed in professional level play, and am concerned for the future of the paddle industry because of how fast these new models become unplayable, from core crushing with thermoformed paddles to foam paddles breaking in. I want to see paddles that perform AND last long enough to get good use out of them.
Thanks for your review. I have a prism Flash and a V7 Pro and love them both. I was ready to pull the trigger on thr new oni just based on looks alone! Keep it up Chris.
My takeaway on rule 2.E.6.f is from an engineering viewpoint. Taking on the burden to be the entity that creates rules (we call them specifications/requirements) and enforces them can be a huge responsibility. You literally need to be an expert in the thing/process that's being regulated and think of all the details, consequences, and compliance checking methods. I hope the PPA has a budget to hire good engineers to figure out what their goals and compatible rules should be. 2.E.6.f is begging to be litigated ... many materials have some spring-like or trampoline behavior that you often can't perceive, it's just a matter of "how much?".
Great review Chris as always very honest. It would be nice if someone would pull back the curtain and be completely transparent on how companies do R&D or are the Chinese factories developing these foam concepts and selling the companies on this. I could be wrong but GB and Six Zero may be the only ones to actually develop their own products. It’s convenient for a company to develop a paddle that will get approved only to fail within a week or two. I would wait to buy any new product for at least a month to see what happens.
Aww man, I jumped on the Oni train day 1 as I've loved all of my prior Vatic paddles and I was hoping to experience some of that Gen 3 pop - but for me consistency is above both power and control so I'm cancelling my order and sticking with tried-and-true designs for now. What a bummer.
Surfers, paddle boarders, etc can tell you all about pressure dings and delamination of foam cores 😂 seriously, foam is a terrible core choice for composite cores that take impact. Once they compress the only thing that can happen is the foam breaks and separates from itself. I really want to know if the actual testing done by USAPA is on brand new paddles or "broken in" paddles like these... It seems like USAPA just doesn't care about their own equipment rules (at least for a price). These tech "advancements" are total crap. They create unreliable and inconsistent paddles that hit so hard the average player can't control it. Ben Johns recently said that he's far more worried about injury when playing against non-pro players who can't control these power paddles. I'd much rather see power limits from USAPA and let manufacturers have more leeway with texture for spin. It would introduce more control and chaos in a game without just turning into blasting each other with cannons.
I do not mind the honest opinion from your point of view. At least it brought light to potential issues we might experience. I am however a little disappointed that the review came out later than launch day. If it came out on launch day I would not have ordered nine paddles for me and my crew. I would have just ordered two to test. I did reach out to Vatic and asked him about the situation. At least he had a positive email where there are options if you run into issues. All in all I guess I'll have to wait and see if I will have to use the warranty. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thank you for your hard work on doing these paddle reviews. I just pulled the trigger on the Huarache X kevlar too.
Update. Got the onis in. So far no squishy sounds so far. Over a week of play on them. We did have to change the way we play. Use only enough power in your swing to put away balls. No longer will I have to do hard swings to put away balls. 40% is more than enough to do the job. As for people grumbling about gen 3 paddles and the speed of the ball, I have no problem tracking them. After playing against these gen 3 paddles, I find it easier to play against Gen 2 or gen 1 paddles. The balls coming off those paddles look a lot slower and easier to defend against. We actually get way more fun playing with these gen 3 paddles. You do have to be quicker on reacting to the dinks though. Bring back the joolas. We need more gen 3 paddles to play against. I must say playing against gen 3 paddles actually keeps you on point and ready 100% of the time. All I can say is it so much more fun!
I hear Joola may be filing a $45 million dollar lawsuit against the USAP. I hope so, this is long overdue!. What independent body is overseeing the USAP testing model, holding them accountable, making them more timely, more responsive to their clients? The USAP is the problem! They have no transparency, and no accountability, they're a black hole. Who is the third party tester, what is their company name, what are their qualifications, what is their track record, years in business, customer list, customer references, what scientific equipment are they using, where are their detailed, published, scientific test results for each paddle tested? The USAP collects too much money, tens of millions of dollars, to be shrouded in such secrecy. Sunlight is the best disenfectant. Pickleball is going soft with all this talk about injury, liability etc. There's a simple solution, wear protective eyewear, when compared to paddle prices, this is a simple, cheap solution. Don't dumb down pickleball more then it is. Be progressive, continue to evolve, keep an open mind, remember your fans/viewers.
Great review. Hard pass. I’ll stick with Ronbus. Only company to actively work to solve core crushing. Also love that you’re calling out the USAP on their inconsistent application of their own rules. This is why you’re the number 1 paddle reviewer on the internet. Integrity and impartiality above all.
My thought on these foam paddles is that 14mm core is necessary in theory shouldn’t this fix the issue or atleast not be as drastic? Since there is less foam and less material it should be more rigid as a result. I’m not sure paddles are becoming too money grabby lately with all this “technology”
I'm so glad I decided not to purchase this paddle. Something seems off. I decided to go with the Honolulu Pickleball J7K Pro. I have the J2K and very happy with it. I just want something with a little more power Thanks for the reviews Chris. You have saved me some money. Any chance that there's a J2K and J7K review coming?😂
Welp. I WAS going to buy this... but the more I see and hear the more I just think that I'm going to stick with my Gen 2 paddles until the industry figures out what this next faze is. Is gearbox the only one that has it dialed?
Another helpful and thorough review. I’m definitely interested in a gen 3 paddle but decided to wait and see after having to deal with gen 2 delaminating paddles. Are there any gen 2 paddles that don’t delaminate?
Vatic Pro - As someone described “High performance paddles at a more affordable price “. Chris has previously praised the company and some of their paddles. VP hit home-runs with the Flash and especially the Prism Flash and it took them from obscurity and put them on the map. Their next offering the Alchemy was a swing and a miss but no harm no foul. If VP sends out 3500 Launch Edition Oni paddles or even worse the actual production paddle with inherent design and or quality flaws then they will lose all credibility. I’m hoping that VP will fix this issue before it becomes too late.
I NEARLY bought this, but it sold out today, because of the dragon graphics and initial reviews (Jordan Irwin & TickleMyPickle) which seemed to place it as an affordable, more uesr-friendly gen 3, with a softer face than the hurache x (which is now back on my high consideration list). i know with initial releases/new tech there ALWAYS seems to be some sort of problem and i do much better (financially and QC) waiting a few months in, esp when more reviews come in. that being said, that dragon is dope and needs to come back plus i prefer a longer handle. Waiting on the Ronbus Pulsar FX review with bated breath.
@@PickleballStudio Mahalo Chris. I watched the video again and heard it the second time. I have one on order so we will see if I have the same issues. I currently play with the Flash 16mm.
I have played both with the Pro Flash 14mm and 16mm. I will test out the Oni Flash 16mm and see how it plays. Looking forward to hearing about your experience as well once you get yours.
I think that’s pretty shitty. One dude shouldn’t make or break a brand. And I would GUARANTEE 99% of the people out there wouldn’t be able to tell a Franklin from a Joola if they were blindfolded anyway!
@NOT_A_TOP_FAN This same reviewer was credited by Vatic's owner as having a huge positive impact with their initial breakthrough when they hit the market. My take is that this review suggests that buyers be aware of potential issues and maybe this paddle is best left for the early adopters that are going into it willing to deal with what might happen as the paddle breaks in. Long term durability is still unknown at this point in time. Based on my experience, Vatic has been a reputable company/brand that has stood behind their products. They replaced my V7 pro when it delaminated and that replacement has held up. I have 3 other Vatics and all of them have been fine.
I really wanted to try this paddle, but they will not be offering a 14mm option, so I'm out. These Gen 3 paddles are going to take some getting used to playing against, and it definitely effects me mentally when the player across from me has one of the new Joola paddles. It really wakes you up when that first speed up rips past your ear. All that being said, they're probably a game changer for older players who have trouble generating power.
Spot on thinking for how the foam to PP core interacts. That is my bet. 100% EVA would not have this issue, but not approved. My VICE is solid all over the face. Break in Period equates to Break Down Period. SST technology for the durability win.
At our club we are seeing a couple of the SST cores with foam breaking down. PPF and PPE becoming insanely uncontrollable. The one guy must have liked it beforehand because he went and bought another exactly the same PPF.
I don't know about GB pro power, I've played against a few and haven't noticed a dramatic difference. But Joola Gen 3 in the hands of a hard-hitting player is ridiculous - I've never been on the receiving end of that level of ball speed. ever. It really feels like that level of power is way too much for a healthy pickleball game.
This usap not enforcing any rules on anything is a joke. Like what’s the point of having a handbook or rules if the most important ones that change the game, are never enforced. It’s like when Selkirk made a giant hole paddle, like it’s clearly just a hole in the paddle, but was somehow legal?? At this point joola or vatic or whoever can just make anything and what’s anyone gonna do?
Easy solution, have better technique and get softer hands. Jk, I think its fine. We need more power on paddles. I actually think the Gen 3 paddles are better for my wrist because I need to wrist snap less violently to generate the same amount of power since I was on the verge of developing tennis elbow before switching to a more powerful paddle.
Maybe hotter than a Gearbox Power Pro and Joola Gen 3? They'll SELL OUT. Average Joe's will welcome a "corked bat" Bazooka even if is against the rules.
Pickleball was founded on the concept that everyone and anyone should be able to play it and have a good time doing it regardless of level. Therefore the rules surrounding pickleball paddles were designed around this philosophy. However pickleball is no longer just a game it is becoming a respected sport with money involved. Therefore companies will continue to push the boundaries of how much power their paddles produce. It is a natural progression but in the process we will end up losing part of the "spirit of pickleball". Whether that is an acceptable loss is up to personal opinion.
Hmmm... I have one on order having pulled the trigger right at 9AM when it went live. Now I'm contemplating canceling as well. I have a freebie Gen 3 coming soon to test anyways. Is there any reason to not cancel it at this point?
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Update: Apparently 2.E.6.F isn’t in the USAP rulebook. If you got to USAP's website for equipment standards, the link goes to the Nov 2023 manual which has 2.E.6.F, while the 2024 rulebook for the game rules contains the new equipment standards which apparently does not have rule 2.E.6.F anymore.
I was reading the Nov 2023 manual for the video because that’s what their site links me to.
Dun dun duuuuuuun!!!!! What the heck?
How convenient
Is this another sign that USAP does not want to control the direction of the game and has given into the paddle companies desire to maximize profits with the trend to more and more powerful paddles, which is dramatically changing the game. Not in a good way. Dare I say... time for USAP to get some BALLS!
If you take a look at the list of rule changes, you'll find rule change ID 1352 which describes the move of 2.E.6.e (removable parts) to only appear in the equipment standards manual. I believe this means that the rules listed in the equipment standards manual can differ from those found in the rule book even while staying applicable. I can't find any rule change that shows them moving 2.E.6.f from the rule book to just the equipment standards, but I would suspect that something similar to that may have happened prior to them providing records of rule changes. Therefore, I think that it's still a valid concern to ask about 2.E.6.f considering it still remains in the equipment standards that have not been changed and can apparently contain requirements that don't need to be in the overall rule book itself.
What is your go-to match day paddle?
Agree with what was said. Though wish this negativity on foam and USAP was more discussed on the multi million dollar corporation Joola video rather than the small family owned company
💯
Yep, trying to get my head around that as well.
Exactly smh!
Def should’ve been separated
"It's meant to loosen up as you use it" I interpret this as: it's USA pickleball approved when new - but over time turns into the power paddle everyone wants approved up front but can't get.
That's exactly how it works. I work in the tennis/pickleball industry in China, confirmed this with multiple paddle factories in China.
@@uchihasasuke7436 Dude, are you selling pickleball paddles online or something?
@@FortEryone Nah we have pickleball facilities in China and we are the Chinese distributors for a large pickleball brand.
Great review Chris. High value for some of us Vatic fans that were looking closely at this. I'll wait and see for now.
when the paddle review has "train wreck" in the title you know its a juicy one lol
Thanks for your honest review!! I waited for your review before pulling the trigger on it…. Feels like I dodged a bullet! Thank you!!
This review is nothing like my experience with my ONI, which I got Saturday, its So MUCH better than the Gen 3 Joolas, my son sold his Joola after one day of playing with the ONI.
Wow I dont know what to say about this review other than its really really bad advice.
Its so NOT like a JOOLA GEN 3.
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these paddles! Unfortunate that this has been your experience! Definitely will keep checking on how mine ages.
Looking forward to a follow up video of your Oni experience after it has “broken in”, if you decide to make one!
@@michaellei2578 I’m going to do my best to see it through! I definitely had a break in period where the paddle got noticeably more powerful (around 5-6 hours of play) but have not had inconsistency in the core nor any of the other issues mentioned here - I do not use as much power in my game as many others do, so I anticipate that if I was to have a similar issues, it might take a while longer as I’ve had the paddle a while and haven’t had it happen yet - I’ll keep people up to date! 👌
Always appreciate your honesty. Stay independent and say what you really feel. These new foam paddles need to go.
BRING THE HEAT AND TRUTH BOMBS!!! So refreshing compared to the reviewers the rush reviews out to be first to get their ‘discount codes’ out. This a real statement of a review. U R NOT A SELLOUT.
Another awesome honest review!
Thanks for the review Chris. I was tempted to get new gen 3 and asked Chris Dickert if Legacy was going to come out with a gen 3 since I've been very happy with my 3 Legacy paddles. He replied that they are already on their third generation and sticking with therma formed construction. So your review has "cooled my jets" about getting the latest and greatest new thing. As always, I've learned to rely on your honest and and no nonsense reviews. Sorry I didn't get a chance to say hi at the Open. Maybe next year.
That was Chris’s way of saying “no, we aren’t making any Gen 3 paddles”. Legacy just drop ships Chinese factory paddles, so they don’t have the option of bringing a Gen 3 to market until Chinese factories have them in their catalog.
Chris- Thank you for your honesty! Another reason, to listen to you before an expensive purchase mistake….
Thanks as always for the honest review! Still the best in my opinion.
I feel like Chris is getting more and more annoyed by foam paddles in each video, and I'm right there with him.
At least vatic told the truth. It's not a design flaw, foam filled carbon paddles are meant to core crush and hit harder with age.
lol…yet he played with a gearbox….
Thanks Chris for the review, and let me add that I was little worried something had happened to you (sick or something) when this video didn't come out on launch day. I held off ordering the Oni mostly because I'm waiting for the long handle version...now I'm not so sure. I agree USAP really needs to better regulate these paddles. They are behind and I have no idea how the gen 3 paddles comply with 2.E.6.f Keep up the good, honest reviews.
Usap needs to crack down on all foam paddles. No chance it passes deflection tests after break in
Thanks for the informative review. There is so much marketing, smoke and mirrors in the world of pickleball paddles. I’d love to see a “behind the scenes” documentary that discusses where and how various paddles are made.
With great power comes great responsibility. Chris resisted pressure to release review fast to take time to investigate responsibly. Fair and honest review resulted.
I’m a racquet head, coming to pickleball from tennis & I appreciate the objectivity here. Nothing worse than a bunch of reviews that say nothing remotely bad about a racquet or paddle
Thanks for being completely honest in this review! I saw another reviewer saying the Oni is great for beginner/intermediate players but after seeing how the Oni pops on drops, I suspect that reviewer was just trying to get people to use their Vatic code.
Not sure which review that is, but to their credit, they may not have used the paddle enough to get to the "break in" stage. Had I done a first look video on this with only one session, I might have had very similar thoughts.
The longer it got used, the more the issue got shown.
So, there's a chance it wasn't just to shove a code and that they just didn't experience what I did.
@@PickleballStudio good insight, you're probably right it could have been a first look since they probably didn't have enough time with it prior to the review
USAP has to speak out about the controversy around foam paddles. I think it’s ridiculous how these paddles are still allowed in professional level play, and am concerned for the future of the paddle industry because of how fast these new models become unplayable, from core crushing with thermoformed paddles to foam paddles breaking in. I want to see paddles that perform AND last long enough to get good use out of them.
Thanks for your very honest review!
Thanks for your review. I have a prism Flash and a V7 Pro and love them both. I was ready to pull the trigger on thr new oni just based on looks alone! Keep it up Chris.
Almost bought it but luckily I’m on you Discord and hearing it delamed/core corrupted from you, I waited. Grateful for the transparency!!
My takeaway on rule 2.E.6.f is from an engineering viewpoint. Taking on the burden to be the entity that creates rules (we call them specifications/requirements) and enforces them can be a huge responsibility. You literally need to be an expert in the thing/process that's being regulated and think of all the details, consequences, and compliance checking methods. I hope the PPA has a budget to hire good engineers to figure out what their goals and compatible rules should be. 2.E.6.f is begging to be litigated ... many materials have some spring-like or trampoline behavior that you often can't perceive, it's just a matter of "how much?".
Great review Chris as always very honest. It would
be nice if someone would pull back the curtain and be completely transparent on how companies do R&D or are the Chinese factories developing these foam concepts and selling the companies on this. I could be wrong but GB and Six Zero may be the only ones to actually develop their own products. It’s convenient for a company
to develop a paddle that will get approved only to fail within a week or two. I would wait to buy any new product for at least a month to see what happens.
Thank you for your review! I'm going to hold off my purchase until I see longer-term results.
Aww man, I jumped on the Oni train day 1 as I've loved all of my prior Vatic paddles and I was hoping to experience some of that Gen 3 pop - but for me consistency is above both power and control so I'm cancelling my order and sticking with tried-and-true designs for now. What a bummer.
Going to have to do the same.
What was the process to cancel?
@@jo3jo32 I emailed using the address on the receipt - their standard support address.
@@jo3jo32 I would also like to know.
This demonstrates the influence of reviewers - and how helpful this community of reviewers is becoming. Well done!
@@2musiclover534 yeah, Chris has never led me a-stray. I'm probably going to try that Hurache-X Control he's been going on about :)
Surfers, paddle boarders, etc can tell you all about pressure dings and delamination of foam cores 😂 seriously, foam is a terrible core choice for composite cores that take impact. Once they compress the only thing that can happen is the foam breaks and separates from itself.
I really want to know if the actual testing done by USAPA is on brand new paddles or "broken in" paddles like these...
It seems like USAPA just doesn't care about their own equipment rules (at least for a price).
These tech "advancements" are total crap. They create unreliable and inconsistent paddles that hit so hard the average player can't control it. Ben Johns recently said that he's far more worried about injury when playing against non-pro players who can't control these power paddles.
I'd much rather see power limits from USAPA and let manufacturers have more leeway with texture for spin. It would introduce more control and chaos in a game without just turning into blasting each other with cannons.
Thank you for the honest disclaimer right at the beginning.
Way to be honest and put your foot down. The game doesn’t need this.
I fully agree with everything Chris said about Joola and Vatic, ect. foam paddles. Seriously thinking about going back to Gen2.
Best review video yet my brother
So we’ve essentially legalized delaminated paddles for the time being and are referring to them as gen 3?
I do not mind the honest opinion from your point of view. At least it brought light to potential issues we might experience. I am however a little disappointed that the review came out later than launch day. If it came out on launch day I would not have ordered nine paddles for me and my crew. I would have just ordered two to test. I did reach out to Vatic and asked him about the situation. At least he had a positive email where there are options if you run into issues. All in all I guess I'll have to wait and see if I will have to use the warranty. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thank you for your hard work on doing these paddle reviews. I just pulled the trigger on the Huarache X kevlar too.
Update. Got the onis in. So far no squishy sounds so far. Over a week of play on them. We did have to change the way we play. Use only enough power in your swing to put away balls. No longer will I have to do hard swings to put away balls. 40% is more than enough to do the job. As for people grumbling about gen 3 paddles and the speed of the ball, I have no problem tracking them. After playing against these gen 3 paddles, I find it easier to play against Gen 2 or gen 1 paddles. The balls coming off those paddles look a lot slower and easier to defend against. We actually get way more fun playing with these gen 3 paddles. You do have to be quicker on reacting to the dinks though. Bring back the joolas. We need more gen 3 paddles to play against. I must say playing against gen 3 paddles actually keeps you on point and ready 100% of the time. All I can say is it so much more fun!
I think it’s funny how pickleball doesn’t want to be tennis, but we are trying to essentially make tennis rackets for pickleball….
Who else is waiting for Chris’s review where he says that this is the paddle he is going to switch to?
I hear Joola may be filing a $45 million dollar lawsuit against the USAP. I hope so, this is long overdue!. What independent body is overseeing the USAP testing model, holding them accountable, making them more timely, more responsive to their clients? The USAP is the problem! They have no transparency, and no accountability, they're a black hole. Who is the third party tester, what is their company name, what are their qualifications, what is their track record, years in business, customer list, customer references, what scientific equipment are they using, where are their detailed, published, scientific test results for each paddle tested? The USAP collects too much money, tens of millions of dollars, to be shrouded in such secrecy. Sunlight is the best disenfectant. Pickleball is going soft with all this talk about injury, liability etc. There's a simple solution, wear protective eyewear, when compared to paddle prices, this is a simple, cheap solution. Don't dumb down pickleball more then it is. Be progressive, continue to evolve, keep an open mind, remember your fans/viewers.
Great review. Hard pass. I’ll stick with Ronbus. Only company to actively work to solve core crushing. Also love that you’re calling out the USAP on their inconsistent application of their own rules. This is why you’re the number 1 paddle reviewer on the internet. Integrity and impartiality above all.
Wrong. Have you heard of the Gen3 Ronbus Ripple? It's banned along side the Joola Gen 3 paddles.
9:38 Love the hands 😂
1:04 Hey it's David D. in the house!
Hey man im excited to try the christian alshon paddle. Should i buy on release or wait for your video. Im assuming youve hit it?
Paddle review 🐐. Love the level of documentation, I bet the company can learn a thing or two themselves by watching 😂
My thought on these foam paddles is that 14mm core is necessary in theory shouldn’t this fix the issue or atleast not be as drastic?
Since there is less foam and less material it should be more rigid as a result. I’m not sure paddles are becoming too money grabby lately with all this “technology”
Any idea when the rest of those thrive paddles are coming out? Will showed a few of them, I’m waiting for those
I'm so glad I decided not to purchase this paddle. Something seems off. I decided to go with the Honolulu Pickleball J7K Pro. I have the J2K and very happy with it. I just want something with a little more power Thanks for the reviews Chris. You have saved me some money. Any chance that there's a J2K and J7K review coming?😂
Looks like something Ed Hardy would make if they made paddles 😂
Wait for the paddle to arrive and try its quick changes.
Great honest review! How these paddles pass and get the approval stamps is a huge question. It's not a good look for the future of pickleball.
Because in America you can put anything you want on your paddle face as long as it's not violating someone else's trademark or copyright pretty much.
Welp. I WAS going to buy this... but the more I see and hear the more I just think that I'm going to stick with my Gen 2 paddles until the industry figures out what this next faze is.
Is gearbox the only one that has it dialed?
Another helpful and thorough review. I’m definitely interested in a gen 3 paddle but decided to wait and see after having to deal with gen 2 delaminating paddles. Are there any gen 2 paddles that don’t delaminate?
Vatic Pro - As someone described “High performance paddles at a more affordable price “. Chris has previously praised the company and some of their paddles. VP hit home-runs with the Flash and especially the Prism Flash and it took them from obscurity and put them on the map. Their next offering the Alchemy was a swing and a miss but no harm no foul. If VP sends out 3500 Launch Edition Oni paddles or even worse the actual production paddle with inherent design and or quality flaws then they will lose all credibility. I’m hoping that VP will fix this issue before it becomes too late.
I NEARLY bought this, but it sold out today, because of the dragon graphics and initial reviews (Jordan Irwin & TickleMyPickle) which seemed to place it as an affordable, more uesr-friendly gen 3, with a softer face than the hurache x (which is now back on my high consideration list). i know with initial releases/new tech there ALWAYS seems to be some sort of problem and i do much better (financially and QC) waiting a few months in, esp when more reviews come in. that being said, that dragon is dope and needs to come back plus i prefer a longer handle. Waiting on the Ronbus Pulsar FX review with bated breath.
Isn’t this “break-in” period just instant core crushing? Weren’t core crushed paddles banned before?
Great review. Do you still like the Pro flash 14mm ?
I see that new paddletek that Etta is using👀👀 excited for that review and the AL paddle too
Etta was playing a Joola at Red Rock hadn’t heard she was changing.
🐐 paddle reviewer !
Would be nice if you could post a follow-up video for the second paddle to see if it gets "hotter" like the first one.
I mention it in the video. My second one got much hotter within 4 play sessions compared to how it played day 1.
@@PickleballStudio Mahalo Chris. I watched the video again and heard it the second time. I have one on order so we will see if I have the same issues. I currently play with the Flash 16mm.
@@MikeYoneda I currently play with a pro flash 14mm, and I ordered an Oni Flash 16mm. I will be curious to see how it plays as well.
I have played both with the Pro Flash 14mm and 16mm. I will test out the Oni Flash 16mm and see how it plays. Looking forward to hearing about your experience as well once you get yours.
I have been playing with it for about a week. No big issues so far. Playing hotter than the Pro Flash 16mm so getting used to the Oni.
R.I.P. this paddle
Might be RIP Vatic now lol
I think that’s pretty shitty. One dude shouldn’t make or break a brand. And I would GUARANTEE 99% of the people out there wouldn’t be able to tell a Franklin from a Joola if they were blindfolded anyway!
@@NOT_A_TOP_FAN Bad products ruin brands, not reviewers
@@ValueRobot tell that to Amazon... lol
@NOT_A_TOP_FAN This same reviewer was credited by Vatic's owner as having a huge positive impact with their initial breakthrough when they hit the market. My take is that this review suggests that buyers be aware of potential issues and maybe this paddle is best left for the early adopters that are going into it willing to deal with what might happen as the paddle breaks in. Long term durability is still unknown at this point in time. Based on my experience, Vatic has been a reputable company/brand that has stood behind their products. They replaced my V7 pro when it delaminated and that replacement has held up. I have 3 other Vatics and all of them have been fine.
y'all got the Standout KC1 in the pipeline?
this model had been banned by usap along with joola gen3s because of that foam thing .. whereas gearbox pro which has more foam has not .. why? 😢
My oni hits soooo much harder now and it’s only been a week. It’s getting hard to reset the ball from a drive.
Update: the oni is amazing once you get used to it even with the squishing. Took me about a week to get used to the power of the gen 3 paddle.
Oh no!! This is sad! I had high expectations from Vatic Pro!! Now I’m putting a brake lol!
I really wanted to try this paddle, but they will not be offering a 14mm option, so I'm out. These Gen 3 paddles are going to take some getting used to playing against, and it definitely effects me mentally when the player across from me has one of the new Joola paddles. It really wakes you up when that first speed up rips past your ear. All that being said, they're probably a game changer for older players who have trouble generating power.
I got it for the dragon design and now it seems like it's going to end up as expensive decor for my room
Spot on thinking for how the foam to PP core interacts. That is my bet. 100% EVA would not have this issue, but not approved. My VICE is solid all over the face. Break in Period equates to Break Down Period.
SST technology for the durability win.
At our club we are seeing a couple of the SST cores with foam breaking down. PPF and PPE becoming insanely uncontrollable. The one guy must have liked it beforehand because he went and bought another exactly the same PPF.
My friend received a gearbox with core disruption. The feel is very similar to what Chris described when he pushed on the face.
Daryl in shambles rn
Just like any other sport, the equipment is taking precedence over player performance.
Gen 3 is ruining the game. Gearbox pro power and joola gen 3 should be banned.
I don't know about GB pro power, I've played against a few and haven't noticed a dramatic difference. But Joola Gen 3 in the hands of a hard-hitting player is ridiculous - I've never been on the receiving end of that level of ball speed. ever. It really feels like that level of power is way too much for a healthy pickleball game.
Great review, I was really looking forward to this paddle. Now I know it is not for me…
I bought the 1st release - got an email from VAtic today that they will accept a return-refund as they are “scheduled to be delisted by USAP”
This usap not enforcing any rules on anything is a joke. Like what’s the point of having a handbook or rules if the most important ones that change the game, are never enforced.
It’s like when Selkirk made a giant hole paddle, like it’s clearly just a hole in the paddle, but was somehow legal?? At this point joola or vatic or whoever can just make anything and what’s anyone gonna do?
Easy solution, have better technique and get softer hands. Jk, I think its fine. We need more power on paddles. I actually think the Gen 3 paddles are better for my wrist because I need to wrist snap less violently to generate the same amount of power since I was on the verge of developing tennis elbow before switching to a more powerful paddle.
Good work Chris. Regulators need to do their job. Deflection test is a joke.
Maybe hotter than a Gearbox Power Pro and Joola Gen 3? They'll SELL OUT. Average Joe's will welcome a "corked bat" Bazooka even if is against the rules.
what’s up guys
3.5 Chris here
Pickleball was founded on the concept that everyone and anyone should be able to play it and have a good time doing it regardless of level. Therefore the rules surrounding pickleball paddles were designed around this philosophy. However pickleball is no longer just a game it is becoming a respected sport with money involved. Therefore companies will continue to push the boundaries of how much power their paddles produce. It is a natural progression but in the process we will end up losing part of the "spirit of pickleball". Whether that is an acceptable loss is up to personal opinion.
Looks sick tho
Thanks for not selling out to Big Pickle...... like Will.
Never been this early before
4 minutes in and it's not really sounding good. The whole idea of breaking paddles in is really annoying.
Bought it for the dragon design!
Ew.
Vatic really fell off by releasing this paddle with known issues
SH stands for Standard Handle 😅
Hmmm... I have one on order having pulled the trigger right at 9AM when it went live. Now I'm contemplating canceling as well. I have a freebie Gen 3 coming soon to test anyways. Is there any reason to not cancel it at this point?
If you receive the Oni with the dragon design and can't return it, LMK. I'll buy it from you.
Appearantly the Oni is no longer in the Vatic pro catalog....at least I can't find it.
The release on 05/01 was a limited run with the dragon design. I think on 06/01 they'll be available to order with the traditional design.
How can I say 'it's garbage' without saying 'it's garbage'
Definitely not getting this paddle. Love Chris!
Just cancelled my order. Very disappointing from Vatic.
A big NO NO !!
Thanks Chris 🫡
For anyone watching this video.... this paddle is now getting delisted....
USAP is a joke. These paddles need to be regulated more seriously.
Lol I already bought it. :(
You can still cancel it! I just did, just email them.
Chris' wife: "Chris, Vatic Oni on line two"
Vatic Oni: "Chris....WTF"
Looks like they pulled the paddle from their site.
Nah, it's just because it sold out. It won't be back until June 1st for next round of pre-orders.
I appreciate the review. I liked the original prism flash surprised vatic would try what seems like a money grab. Are you reviewing the BNB Shogun?
Sounds like a disaster.
oof
yikes!!
yikes
I’m second
Ugh here he goes, MKBHD destroying companies again…