Russell Moore is Mr. Wordly Wiseman so it follows that he knows better. I had a discipleship group that studied Pilgrims Progress for a year, both books. It was invaluable to each of us in our growth in faith.
I just read Pilgrim's Progress for the first time to my two Grandsons, ages 13 an 14, after supper for devotions, I would finish one chapter and they would ask me to read on to the next one.I have to confess Grandpa was getting quite teary-eyed at times.
May I ask which age appropriate version did you read to them? I read it to my daughter when she was about 12 yrs old. I used the one in our church library back then. She’s 48 yrs old now and I would like to get it for my almost 12 yr old granddaughter.
While he may lean left in certain positions, I think it is entirely slanderous to say that Russell Moore is “theologically liberal.” I myself have mixed feelings about some of Russell Moore’s takes, as he can often come across a little critical, but I do think he’s being used to rightly point out blind spots in the church. I don’t see any reason to believe he’s departed from orthodoxy, contrary to what the discernment ministries would say
I started reading Pilgrim's Progress for the first time recently and I agree with your assessment of the book and their statements. Each page is full of truck loads of doctrine, it is full of continuous action (fighting Apollyon and walking through the Valley of the Shadow of Death are 2 of my favorite parts so far), and I find myself relating to Christian continuously.
I didn't read Pilgrims Progress until I was 30, and I wept openly throughout. I can't fathom that a Christian wouldn't be deeply moved and stirred by the book, but I'm not surprised that Prior and Moore don't care for it.
We read Pilgrim’s Progress to 50 kids in our homeschool co-op (3 different versions to the different age groups). Such an incredible story of God’s redemption. Moore & De Mez are leftists and although I’m not the arbiter of salvation…. I do question theirs.
I am appalled at their glib, shallow criticism of both the Puritans and Pilgrims Progress. In today's mechanized, digital and fast paced world it is hard to be as introspective. But I wish more followers of Christ were...
Any unconvicted person who refuses to repent will not see his own wretchedness by comparison to Christs' absolute Holiness. They will therefore also not see the value of Pilgrims' Progress!
😮 I don’t understand how he can say what he said? It’s mind boggling! How can you not appreciate such an amazing story as John Bunyan’s book Pilgrims Progress! That book has blessed me and my family! I too disagree with Russell!
I’ve listened to Pilgrims Progress MANY times on unabridged audio while at work on my “IPod.” I worked nights and was frequently too tired to read at home so I “read” many unabridged classics at work (The Confessions of St Augustine😧). What an immense blessing! I just received a beautiful library edition of Pilgrims with original etchings as a gift and I’m excited to read the book now that I’m retired. It was hard NOT to find myself and others I know in the characters of that allegory. Blessings to all🙏
💯 agree with Matt on this one. 'Pilgrim's Progress' was one of the first Christian books I ever read and I have come back to it twice since. 'Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners' was extremely important to my own faith journey. I just can't resonate with either of the other commentators' views on this.
The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan is one of my favorite books of all-time. It's not only among the best of the Puritans (and a great introduction to the Puritans), but it's also among the best of literature in general and in any language. For example, read the review "The Vision of John Bunyan" by C.S. Lewis if people want to hear from someone with fine literary sense and judgment.
Pilgrims Progress is an amazing book. When you see your own wretchedness and your need for a savior this book is such a comfort. I am beginning to read this to my homeschooled children this year and I am excited to share such a wonderfully crafted book with my boys. I cannot help but think that just like Paul was imprisoned for our benefit and to further the Gospel of Truth , that dear John Bunyan was jailed for the same purpose. To further the Gospel and bring about a furtherance of faith for so many who believe. Brothers and Sisters, may we in Jesus name continue to strive for holiness and grow in the grace, knowledge and truth of our savior Christ Jesus.
Besides the Bible, many non-Christians read Augustine's Confessions, Pilgrim's Progress, Mere Christianity, and The Imitation of Christ, among other books. Even non-Christians appreciate Pilgrim's Progress. I was never creeped out by Pilgrim's Progress. The inward gaze can be distressing, but that's a good sign! I think Pilgrim's Progress, like Augustine's Confessions, is a must read for non-Christians after the Bible, because its good literature as well as good Christian reading.
apart from the Bible I think Bunyan gave me great insight when I first became regenerate, loved it and have continued to refer back many times since 1985
Here’s the Gospel preaching machine named Machen on the Pilgrims Progress: That tenderest and most theological of books is pulsating with life in every word. - J. Gresham Machen (1881-1937)
"I also saw, moreover, that it was not my good frame of heart that made my righteousness better, nor yet my bad frame that made my righteousness worse; for my righteousness was Jesus Christ himself, the same yesterday, to-day, and for ever." - John Bunyan, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners Show me where this is cold.
Some works of art are so beautiful, sublime, and powerful that they transcend personal preference, and if you find them creepy or a drag, then you should look within yourself for the problem. Pilgrim's Progress is one of those works.
I absolutely loved The Pilgrim’s Progress… it’s a beautiful story of this pilgrim journey we travel through life. I cried as I read a lot of it, especially when Christian and Hopeful were crossing the River, and Hopeful encouraged and helped Christian in his time of struggle and difficulty. I agree with everything you said about this book, and I would happily recommend this timeless classic by John Bunyan to all believers who are making their way towards that heavenly city whose builder and maker is God! ❤
I see my own heart struggle and the many temptations and pitfalls of life as we, by grace alone, continue on this journey to Christ with Christ. For me it rings true to my own experience of this christian life. It is hard to identify or appreciate what you have not lived.
I read Pilgrim's Progress about a year ago and to be honest I found it slow and dare I say laborious compared to any book of the bible so I can see where they're coming from but it's certainly not creepy. I agree with Matthew and having watched this video I'm going to read it again in a new light.
Went through the first and second parts of PP with our church's kid's club this past year. First book I gave to my girlfriend (now my wife of 21 years). So many quotable quotes, and so much suggestive material for presenting Christ. 'Sing faithful sing, and let thy name survive, for though they killed thee, thou art yet alive'.
He’s entitled to his opinion I guess. I’m more upset that he said he doesn’t like Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners though. Grace Abounding has always been my favorite Bunyan book of all because of how much I identify with so many of his struggles in his walk with Christ.
I liked the book. I read it when I was a mid to late teenager I think. I didn't think it was that great, but I used to hate reading back then. Ineed to try it again.
I think you're WAY too generous to these two critics. Perhaps their problem with Bunyan is their own love of the world and the praise of men. Bunyan may have had these type of people in mind when describing the hypocrite at the end who goes to hell at the very gate of heaven. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would not exclude that possibility.
Pilgrim's Progress is a classic for a reason: it is a masterful depiction of the spiritual journey of every believer. It's not going to disappear from Christian bookshelves anytime soon.
Here's the thing. Maybe someone doesn't love it, maybe they don't like it,because of the style or because they don't like Bunyan's theology that's explicit in some parts (i.e. a modern Arminian reader.) Fine. But then that person needs to recognize that they're as close as it comes to being objectively "wrong" when when it comes to what we "like." It's not the best loved Christian fiction of all time for no reason. Not liking Pilgrim's Progress is like saying you like modern fantasy but not The Lord of the Rings, or saying you like classical, but not Bach. To each their own tastes, but there is such a thing as having bad taste ;)
I guess Bunyan didn't focus enough on the realization of our hopes and dreams and how God will bless us, and the importance of identity affirmation. 😫 🤒
I just finished reading Pilgrims Progress a few months ago and I found it incredibly engaging and riveting. It was hard to put down. It’s and incredibly well told and incredibly relatable. Their critiques are not really fair or well grounded, more opinions than actually critique. I do think Moore does make a fair assessment of Puritan literature in that it can very introspective. But to blanket an entire era of writing isn’t a helpful approach either. Love your videos. Thank you for doing this!
I was richly blessed by pilgrim's Progress when I read it, and plan on reading it again many many times. I'm not sure how you can read such a beautiful book and not be in love with it. Pilgrim's Progress, and Religious Affections by JE have been my favorite books so far in my Christian walk. Pilgrim's Progress is definitely my favorite work of literature because of it's rich Bible content. I am so thankful Matthew that you made this great video explaining why you lovingly disagree and appreciate Both Grace Abounding and Pilgrim's Progress. They are two wonderful books that are imbued with the Gospel. The Lord Bless you, I've been greatly helped by your RUclips videos for many years now. Thanks Brother
We read Pilgrim’s Progress to 50 kids in our homeschool co-op (3 different versions to the different age groups). Such an incredible story of God’s redemption. Moore & De Mez are leftists and although I’m not the arbiter of salvation…. I do question theirs.
I love the book and Bunyan’s writing style. But we must be fair: it is hard for Christian to live life with grace under his feet. In this book he had not learned very well to live out of grace before entering the Celestial City. That can be some critique. But overall it is a gem and real masterpiece. Bless from the Netherlands.
Pilgrim's Progress certainly lives up to its very high standing among Christians. Bunyan is a great hero in Christian history and what a great example he is for all of us. Where do these folks in your video critique get their ideas from?
Pilgrim’s Progress is probably my favorite book after the Bible. Hard to understand how a professor discussing it with students could find it to be a “drag”. It is a beautiful piece of literature and an inspiring story of the Christian journey.
Their comments and discussion sounds like someone who just doesn't get it, much like what I'd expect from Joe Rogan. Seems par for the course with these folks.
Dear Pastor Matt, would you please consider making a video on the Pericope Adulterae? You have specific content on the longer ending of Mark and the Johannine Comma, which leaves the Pericope as the only other variant of such a substantive extent. It’s dear to the heart of many Christians, and I know you embrace it now in light of your Majority Text position, but the evidential case for this one is rather complex and arguable from both sides. Such a video would be a great blessing to the Church, because you are a rare voice approaching textual issues in a way that is devotional, gentle, informed, and neither dismissive nor conspiratorial. Thank you for your work for the Kingdom, and lots of love in the Lord from South Africa!
“The people who have a real bone to pick with the Puritans are those who have not read them. The Puritans are very open to substantial criticism by groups that are much more liberal than they are because as soon as you have a group that is much more conservative than you and has a much greater focus on godliness than you, you want to pick them apart because they are so godly. One could come up with a criticism like this: 'They [the Puritans] are way too legalistic.' I have read the Puritans all my life, and they come down hard on legalism, but they are very strong on living holy and solely for Jesus out of gratitude. What that means for them is that they deny certain things. They didn't trust their own hearts and they wanted to live close to God like Daniel in Daniel 1. They didn't want to defile themselves. If you read the Puritans, you'll see their love for Christ and their love for living holy and solely for the Triune God and wanting to dedicate their entire lives to God." - Joel Beeke
Here's a good review of The Pilgrim's Progress: Bunyan (1628-88) If the Commedia is the finest specimen of Christian fiction in general, and Catholic fiction in particular, then the Pilgrim’s Progress is the finest specimen of Evangelical fiction in general, and Reformed fiction in particular. What a difference a Reformation makes! Although I admire Dante’s peerless artistry, I can never love his vision, whereas the Pilgrim’s Progress would be in my backpack for the proverbial desert island. Unlike Dante’s narrative journey, Bunyan’s is fundamentally allegorical. Hence, Bunyan escapes anachronism, for the reader does not have to adjust his viewpoint to modernity. If a modern reader finds Bunyan incredible or even repellent, this is not because he is a modern reader, but because he cannot stand the theology. For a Calvinist, past or present, the allegory is quite credible on its own level. But even if the reader buys into Bunyan’s scale of values, his methods are somewhat in tension with his aims. For Christian is in such a hurry to escape the world that the reader glimpses the world in a sideways blur. Although Bunyan warns the reader and tells the reader to flee the city of destruction, he shows him precious little. Bunyan is better on pride of life than the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh. No Alpine vistas. No Venetian sunsets. No marble palaces. No siren-songed ladies. Why the omission? One reason may simply be that Bunyan was not a man of the world. He could not write Byronically had he wanted to, for he had never done the Grand Tour of the Continent or the Orient. Thus the kingdoms of the world and the glory thereof were not within reach of his imagination. But there is, I suspect, a deeper aversion. Bunyan is so fearful of subjecting his readers to the fate of Lot’s wife that he dare not show them the cities on the plain, lest he and they should suffer the same Medusian fate. So this creates a certain narrative tension. If no man having put his hand to the plow and sneaking a backward glance is fit for the kingdom, then Bunyan can only show the reader where he is headed, but not how he got there. And, of course, Bunyan cannot maintain that viewpoint consistently, for we would never see the pilgrimage, but only the destination. Now, Bunyan can try to get around this by allegorizing the world, the flesh and the devil, but, of course, the average reader is not tempted by the symbols, but by what they symbolize. What the reader does not derive from Bunyan is any palpable sense of loss, of what was left behind, of why it should be such a wrenching experience to tear oneself away from the city of destruction. And this is a real challenge for Christian fiction, be it by a novelist or poet, playwright, screenwriter or short storyteller. How do we write about temptation without tempting the reader? How do we avoid voyeurism and complicity without contriving a doll house world in which no reader either lives or so desires? Is there a happy mean between the obscenity of the Inferno and the effeminacy the Heir of Redclyffe? This is largely a matter of degree. It is one thing to offer a thumbnail sketch of the perennial temptations and fellow feelings with which everyone is familiar, quite another to initiate or saturate the reader in various refinements of evil. Our job is not to acquaint the reader with evil or deepen his acquaintance, but to say enough that he can recognize and relate to the situation. Where sin is concerned, what the author has to contribute is not so much his magnified powers of sight, but his powers of moral insight-by showing the reader how sin is seen from a God’s-eye viewpoint, under judgment and mercy. And that is the balance we find in the Bible, with its blunt, but brief hammer strokes. Bunyan’s personified vices and virtues follow in a long legacy that reaches back through Spencer (Faerie Queene), Langland (Piers Plowman), and Dante (Commedia), to Prudentius (Psychomachia). It is generally difficult for a reader to cozy up to a personified virtue. Dante pulls it off by using real men and women whereas Bunyan succeeds by relying on his lively imagination and natural command of the common touch. Bunyan, like Dante, is at once poetic and plainspoken. He can say more with one arresting phrase than Tolkien can in fifty pages of lead-booted prose. Bunyan is above all a spiritual guide, and he doesn’t trust the reader to draw the moral of the story. So he breaks the spell from time to time. This is not only an artistic flaw, but unnecessary from a pedagogical standpoint. Instead of breaking the allegory, he should extend the allegory by drawing on more metaphors. The Bible is chock-full of spiritual similes that Bunyan could spin into further vignettes. They would make his doctrinal points consistent with the roadside allegory. In some says, Bunyan, with his extreme heavenly-mindedness, represents a limiting-case of the Anabaptist philosophy of history. Bunyan’s otherworldliness is owing, in part, to the popular confusion of the intermediate state with the final state. Given this conflation, there is no distinction between the world and worldliness. To be truly spiritual and heavenly-minded is to be otherworldly. A worldly-denying piety is identical with a world-denying piety. Now, this is a half-truth, and shares all the virtues and vices of a half-truth. Life here-below is often poor, brutish, nasty and short. We leave the world as naked as we came, and death seals our eternal fate for better or worse. But the effort to treat men as angels fosters a hypocritical piety. By being cheated of half our birthright we are thereby led to despise the natural goods of God and feign to be something we are not and ought not and cannot be. Another source of Bunyan’s otherworldliness is doubtless the fact that he lived in times of social unrest and upheaval, and was famously the target of religious persecution. Writing from a prison cell in revolutionary times naturally lent an apocalyptic temper and tempo to his outlook-especially in the first installment. There is a related element which is missing from The Pilgrim's Progress-especially in the first part. A Christian pilgrim has a duty to maintain the trail for those that come after-to weed it, to repair a fallen guidepost, to clear away moss on the landmarks, to keep it from becoming overgrown. We are on a journey, but we must stop, from time to time, to keep the trail open for the benefit of those that follow in our footsteps. That, of course, is the reason why Bunyan wrote the story in the first place-as a travel guide for future pilgrims. But even though the author is a travel guide, the character of Christian is not. And in his haste to make it into Immanuel's Land without a pause or backward glance, there is the unwitting and irresponsible suggestion that we should only concern ourselves with our own soul's salvation, and not with the welfare of those that must someday trod the same path. But a good guide will sometimes tarry, or even backtrack, to lead some stragglers up the trail. Every delay is not a default. After his release from prison, we observe a shift in emphasis from the bridge-burning fervor and breathless alacrity of the first installment to the more chivalric mood and cadence of the sequel, with Great-heart assuming a knightly role as he protects and escorts Christiana and her youthful brood. And this, of course, reflects a shift in Bunyan’s personal fortunes-released from solitary confinement to take up the more leisurely, comforting and communal domesticities of marital life and pastoral ministry. They may still be nomads, with the Promised Land afar off, but they have found a little oasis in the wilderness-or maybe a tree-lined stream skirting the trail. Has Bunyan gone soft out of the saddle? The fact is that both installments of the PP are appropriate to Christian experience-depending on the varied circumstances of our pilgrimage. In general, most believers will marry and raise up seed to the Lord. And family life needs a certain element of stability. But some believers have been called upon to suffer severe persecution for the faith. The character of Christian presents a striking contrast to the traits of the epic hero. To go from Gilgamesh, Perseus, Theseus, Odysseus, Diomedes, Achilles and the like to Christian marks a seismic shift in moral theology. They triumph by dint of their resourceful self-reliance, but Christian triumphs by grace and faith. True to his name, Great-heart is another one of the supreme characters of world literature, and impossible apart from the revelation of the Gospel. Steve Hays, Triablogue
I had to pause 0:54 to make this comment. I listen to Russel Moore's comments on Twitter. I love Pilgrims Progress. I think the issue is that the puritans teaching really goes after the soul of man. I believe that when one of my professors was teaching a Spiritual Discipline class the book they were assign to was J.I. Packer 's book Knowing God. I waled int he student center and was found abandon. The Idea for some Evangelicals is that they want to love one another and love everybody without knowing theoloy.
"the puritans teaching really goes after the soul of man." Well said. They had, of course, an approach to the psychology of conversion that comes out of that. But mostly, IMO, the thing is they took it so seriously. I don't know if anyone today, with our mental furniture, can duplicate that, especially the 17th century examples.
Matthew, you are too kind! The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14 This would aptly describe these so-called "Christian scholars".
Taking God and the Word of God seriously may appear to some morose, but it is merely the springboard to "a joy unspeakable and full of glory." How often do the stories in Pilgrim's Progress find application to the Christian life! I can think of no book covering so well and completely the challenges and triumphs of the Christian life.
Over here on my side of things, we don't take what clowns say or think seriously. Russ Moore and K.Prior are useful to point and laugh at sometimes or better yet to be ignored. What they have to say, especially on any topic touching Christianity is last on the list of anything even close to relevant. Actually, in many instances you would be very well served if you took what they were saying and then went ahead and did the exact opposite.
I think Moore and Pryor's take is indicative of a deeper problem within evangelicalism today. They desire to abandon the old writers, books, and hymns in favor of what makes their itching ears feel good in that moment. They promote psychology and a "modern" approach over sound doctrine and study of the Word. The result has been that we have large churches that feed on fluff but have no root. I have had these two writers on my radar for a couple years, and deeply question their motives.
Read Perkins and Owen. Their works are soooo good. To be quite frank, I don’t think Moore has read enough of the Puritans or British Reformed theology.
Charles Spurgeon on John Bunyan: Read anything of his, and you will see that it is almost like the reading the Bible itself. He had read it till his very soul was saturated with Scripture; and, though his writings are charmingly full of poetry, yet he cannot give us his Pilgrim’s Progress-that sweetest of all prose poems - without continually making us feel and say, “Why, this man is a living Bible!” Prick him anywhere-his blood is Bibline, the very essence of the Bible flows from him. He cannot speak without quoting a text, for his very soul is full of the Word of God. I commend his example to you, beloved.
Pastor Everhard, I commend you for being far kinder to Moore and KSP than they deserve. To call Pilgrim's Progress "cold" is just slanderous. Though I'm not surprised to hear a couple of woke Big Eva types crap on the Puritans. All the more reason to not listen to them, in my opinion. As for me, I found it to be deeply moving, a balm to my soul, and wonderful. And I've found the Puritans to be the same. I wish more of today's theologians wrote and thought more like them. It may change American Christianity for the better.
After listening to modern tirades against the great creeds of the Church, one receives rather a shock when one turns to the Westminster Confession, for example, or to that tenderest and most theological of books, the ‘Pilgrim's Progress’ of John Bunyan, and discovers that in doing so one has turned from shallow modern phrases to a "dead orthodoxy" that is pulsating with life in every word. In such orthodoxy there is life enough to set the whole world aglow with Christian love. -J. Gresham Machen in Christianity and Liberalism.
Calling this book a “drag” to read indicates a Luke warmness in my thoughts. If you’re not really saved and feeling convicted and challenged but don’t want to feel that way it certainly would be a “drag” to read Pilgrim’s Progress!
I'm both surprised at their views considering Pilgrims Progress long existence and not surprised considering the rampant plague of liberalism in the church, predating Spurgeon's time in the pulpit. Widespread distrust of truth and emphasis on "me first" is keeping many from learning from this excellent book, which I myself have read in both the classic(though harder for me to read) and modernized versions(being able to compare, the modernized is faithful to the original, just updating archaic words and using ESV I believe for the scripture references)
I have the works of John Bunyan (the three volume, Banner of Truth set) in my personal library. After I’m done with Matthew Henry’s commentaries, I will prayerfully read Bunyan. The little that I’ve read from Mr. Bunyan really warmed my heart. How could anyone say that his “Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners,” is creepy!?!? I’m done with these, “professional public theologian,” types. Bring me my Bible and the Puritans!
This is a non-sequitur not related to Moore’s assessment on Pilgrims Progress. Having said that, the podcast Mortification of Spin hosted by Carl Trueman there is some public information on Moore that needs to be known: ruclips.net/video/2phgTiR5_9c/видео.htmlfeature=shared
I cannot understand how Russel Moore and Karen Swallow Prior could speak so belittling Pilgrim's Progress and Puritans. It makes me sad that they have no appreciation for this great literary work.
PP is fiction, and we all have different tastes in fiction. What would possess anyone to question someone's faith or theology or ecclesiology based on their appreciation for a work of fiction? Also, times change. A book (by a human author) can be a cultural phenomenon for a long time, but that doesn't mean it's going to have mass appeal forever.
Yes, Bunyan was a Puritan. If you’re looking for a good place to start, John Owen’s Mortification of Sin is excellent. Richard Sibbes’ The Bruised Reed, or William Gurnall’s Christian in Complete Armor are excellent. Enjoy!
I am a big fan of the Puritans especially John Owen. Also Sibbes and Bunyan. I liked Grace abounding to the chief of sinners. I read it while in England with my seminary. We went to Bunyan's church among many others. I was fascinated with how open and honest Bunyan was. To put it politely, he had some issues. Of course he was in prison. But I remember commenting to others that Grace Abounding, while fascinating, was somewhat hard to read because Bunyan was so depressed. Again he was in prison and he knew he was a sinner in front of a holy God. To read something so honest about one's inner life by one so depressed can be seen as a little creepy. I think that is fair in the sense I think Bunyan might agree. His inner life was dark and he was very moody and depressed. But that is what makes the book great also. It is about a guy who does not have it all together. He is only standing firm because of the Holy Spirit. Other wise he would have no hope at all. AS far as Pilgrim's Progress goes. I have to agree with Moore and Swallow that it is not a very great read. I did not experience any great truths that I could not learn elsewhere from a more enjoyable format. And that is fine. PP is not the Bible and no one is going to hell because they could not stand PP. Not saying anyone is saying exactly that but my point is that people can have contrasting views about the text. I think I did not like how close of an analogy it was to the Christian life. It felt cheesy. I like Lewis and Tolkien's works more as they tried to not write strict analogies to the Christian life.
I agree with your take on Pilgrims progress, I personally found it painful to read and didn't feel like it provided anything that wasn't already expressed either more clearly and/or more enjoyably in other formats.
Christian walking beneath the wayside cross as the burden slips from off his back is one of the most moving pieces of literature ever written. That these two knuckleheads would speak so negatively about such a classic Christian work as Pilgrim’s Progress, or the Puritans themselves for that matter, is just further indication that they’re not serious or solid theologians.
If you don’t enjoy reading Pilgrim’s Progress, then you may well be unconverted. A believer finds himself in all the adventures of Christian - a man being saved from his sin, but a false convert finds himself in all the other characters and is therefore judged by his own conscience.
Spurgeon on the Christian's fear of falling into apostasy: "He has discovered that there are Hills of Difficulty and Valleys of Humiliation; that there is a Vale of Deathshade, and, worse still, a Vanity Fair-and all these are to be traversed. If there be Delectable Mountains (and, thank God, there are,) there are also Castles of Despair, the inside of which pilgrims have too often seen. " C. H. Spurgeon, All of Grace: An Earnest Word with Those Who Are Seeking Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ, pg 112.
I don't like the beginning. A person usually does not leave their familt to find truth. Maybe after finding truth you may leave the. "Let the dead bury the dead.. "
Russell Moore is Mr. Wordly Wiseman so it follows that he knows better.
I had a discipleship group that studied Pilgrims Progress for a year, both books. It was invaluable to each of us in our growth in faith.
I just read Pilgrim's Progress for the first time to my two Grandsons, ages 13 an 14, after supper for devotions, I would finish one chapter and they would ask me to read on to the next one.I have to confess Grandpa was getting quite teary-eyed at times.
You're a great grandparent! In the sense, you're great at it. And grand at it. Great that you do devotions together after a family dinner.
May I ask which age appropriate version did you read to them? I read it to my daughter when she was about 12 yrs old. I used the one in our church library back then. She’s 48 yrs old now and I would like to get it for my almost 12 yr old granddaughter.
Pilgrims progress is a great piece of literature
Pilgrim's Progress is a wonderful book! I don't understand how a Bible loving Christian can call Pilgrim's Progress creepy and cold.
Because he’s a fraud
You’re right; Moore and Prior are not Bible loving Christians.
It's life changing truth written by a man who did 12 years in prison for standing by his convictions with Christ.
I believe "Bible loving Christian" is the key phrase there.
Amen!@@MinorSharpFifth
I am baffled. I simply can't in the least comprehend the use of those adjectives applied to Pilgrim's Progress.
Their views don't surprise me. The theological liberalism they hold and love for questioning sound doctrine, I would expect nothing less.
Absolutely. I can't believe he was so shocked that they wouldn't like a Puritan book.
Liberal preachers often begin sermons apologizing for God's word. Then they say what they say it "really" means.
While he may lean left in certain positions, I think it is entirely slanderous to say that Russell Moore is “theologically liberal.” I myself have mixed feelings about some of Russell Moore’s takes, as he can often come across a little critical, but I do think he’s being used to rightly point out blind spots in the church. I don’t see any reason to believe he’s departed from orthodoxy, contrary to what the discernment ministries would say
Put me firmly in the camp of loving Pilgrims Progress.
I can't tell you how many times I've read, and been so richly blessed by it.
I started reading Pilgrim's Progress for the first time recently and I agree with your assessment of the book and their statements. Each page is full of truck loads of doctrine, it is full of continuous action (fighting Apollyon and walking through the Valley of the Shadow of Death are 2 of my favorite parts so far), and I find myself relating to Christian continuously.
That was rough.
A truly born again and not simply cultural christian (by name only) will be deeply moved by the story.
I didn't read Pilgrims Progress until I was 30, and I wept openly throughout. I can't fathom that a Christian wouldn't be deeply moved and stirred by the book, but I'm not surprised that Prior and Moore don't care for it.
We read Pilgrim’s Progress to 50 kids in our homeschool co-op (3 different versions to the different age groups). Such an incredible story of God’s redemption.
Moore & De Mez are leftists and although I’m not the arbiter of salvation…. I do question theirs.
I can’t believe you found something that could make me like Russell Moore even less.
I am appalled at their glib, shallow criticism of both the Puritans and Pilgrims Progress. In today's mechanized, digital and fast paced world it is hard to be as introspective. But I wish more followers of Christ were...
Hearing someone say "My students and I love to hate Pilgrim's Progress" is heartbreaking, and a serious cause for concern. Praise God for that book
Agree, but we are told Satan is a roaring Lion! the professors diminishing the message of the book to students seems to be an example.
@slidingtackle164 indeed, let us remember to pray for them
@@matthewball8060We should pray especially for those under their influence.
The Pilgrim’s Progress and Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners changed my life in an immensely positive way.
Any unconvicted person who refuses to repent will not see his own wretchedness by comparison to Christs' absolute Holiness. They will therefore also not see the value of Pilgrims' Progress!
😮 I don’t understand how he can say what he said? It’s mind boggling!
How can you not appreciate such an amazing story as John Bunyan’s book Pilgrims Progress!
That book has blessed me and my family!
I too disagree with Russell!
I’ve listened to Pilgrims Progress MANY times on unabridged audio while at work on my “IPod.”
I worked nights and was frequently too tired to read at home so I “read” many unabridged classics at work (The Confessions of St Augustine😧).
What an immense blessing! I just received a beautiful library edition of Pilgrims with original etchings as a gift and I’m excited to read the book now that I’m retired. It was hard NOT to find myself and others I know in the characters of that allegory. Blessings to all🙏
💯 agree with Matt on this one. 'Pilgrim's Progress' was one of the first Christian books I ever read and I have come back to it twice since. 'Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners' was extremely important to my own faith journey. I just can't resonate with either of the other commentators' views on this.
Currently reading Pilgrim’s Progress to my 5 and 3 year olds. They listen intently and usually ask me to read until my voice gives out!
The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan is one of my favorite books of all-time. It's not only among the best of the Puritans (and a great introduction to the Puritans), but it's also among the best of literature in general and in any language. For example, read the review "The Vision of John Bunyan" by C.S. Lewis if people want to hear from someone with fine literary sense and judgment.
Well said Everhard!
Pilgrims Progress is an amazing book. When you see your own wretchedness and your need for a savior this book is such a comfort. I am beginning to read this to my homeschooled children this year and I am excited to share such a wonderfully crafted book with my boys. I cannot help but think that just like Paul was imprisoned for our benefit and to further the Gospel of Truth , that dear John Bunyan was jailed for the same purpose. To further the Gospel and bring about a furtherance of faith for so many who believe. Brothers and Sisters, may we in Jesus name continue to strive for holiness and grow in the grace, knowledge and truth of our savior Christ Jesus.
Besides the Bible, many non-Christians read Augustine's Confessions, Pilgrim's Progress, Mere Christianity, and The Imitation of Christ, among other books. Even non-Christians appreciate Pilgrim's Progress.
I was never creeped out by Pilgrim's Progress. The inward gaze can be distressing, but that's a good sign!
I think Pilgrim's Progress, like Augustine's Confessions, is a must read for non-Christians after the Bible, because its good literature as well as good Christian reading.
apart from the Bible I think Bunyan gave me great insight when I first became regenerate, loved it and have continued to refer back many times since 1985
Here’s the Gospel preaching machine named Machen on the Pilgrims Progress:
That tenderest and most theological of books is pulsating with life in every word. - J. Gresham Machen (1881-1937)
They would, without a doubt, disapprove of Jonathan Edward’s sermon, “Sinners in the hands of an angry God.” What would they say about that?
"I also saw, moreover, that it was not my good frame of heart that made my righteousness better, nor yet my bad frame that made my righteousness worse; for my righteousness was Jesus Christ himself, the same yesterday, to-day, and for ever."
- John Bunyan, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners
Show me where this is cold.
If this book gets the approval of a world-class literary expert like C. S. Lewis, then I think I can safely set aside their criticism.
well i read pilgrims progress some 30 years ago and it helped me to cling to Jesus one or the oter or they never grew in Christ or they never knewhim
Some works of art are so beautiful, sublime, and powerful that they transcend personal preference, and if you find them creepy or a drag, then you should look within yourself for the problem. Pilgrim's Progress is one of those works.
Pilgrim’s Progress is a great gift to the earth. How it came about is unbelievable.
Thank you
I absolutely loved The Pilgrim’s Progress… it’s a beautiful story of this pilgrim journey we travel through life. I cried as I read a lot of it, especially when Christian and Hopeful were crossing the River, and Hopeful encouraged and helped Christian in his time of struggle and difficulty. I agree with everything you said about this book, and I would happily recommend this timeless classic by John Bunyan to all believers who are making their way towards that heavenly city whose builder and maker is God! ❤
One of the greatest books of all time!!
I see my own heart struggle and the many temptations and pitfalls of life as we, by grace alone, continue on this journey to Christ with Christ. For me it rings true to my own experience of this christian life. It is hard to identify or appreciate what you have not lived.
After coming across Moore’s comments, I’ve just ordered the book!
I read Pilgrim's Progress about a year ago and to be honest I found it slow and dare I say laborious compared to any book of the bible so I can see where they're coming from but it's certainly not creepy. I agree with Matthew and having watched this video I'm going to read it again in a new light.
Went through the first and second parts of PP with our church's kid's club this past year. First book I gave to my girlfriend (now my wife of 21 years). So many quotable quotes, and so much suggestive material for presenting Christ. 'Sing faithful sing, and let thy name survive, for though they killed thee, thou art yet alive'.
I read “Pilgrim’s Progress” twice. Indeed, it is a must read for Christians. Soli Deo Gloria
He’s entitled to his opinion I guess. I’m more upset that he said he doesn’t like Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners though. Grace Abounding has always been my favorite Bunyan book of all because of how much I identify with so many of his struggles in his walk with Christ.
I liked the book. I read it when I was a mid to late teenager I think. I didn't think it was that great, but I used to hate reading back then. Ineed to try it again.
I think you're WAY too generous to these two critics. Perhaps their problem with Bunyan is their own love of the world and the praise of men. Bunyan may have had these type of people in mind when describing the hypocrite at the end who goes to hell at the very gate of heaven. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would not exclude that possibility.
Pilgrim's Progress is a classic for a reason: it is a masterful depiction of the spiritual journey of every believer. It's not going to disappear from Christian bookshelves anytime soon.
Here's the thing. Maybe someone doesn't love it, maybe they don't like it,because of the style or because they don't like Bunyan's theology that's explicit in some parts (i.e. a modern Arminian reader.) Fine. But then that person needs to recognize that they're as close as it comes to being objectively "wrong" when when it comes to what we "like." It's not the best loved Christian fiction of all time for no reason. Not liking Pilgrim's Progress is like saying you like modern fantasy but not The Lord of the Rings, or saying you like classical, but not Bach. To each their own tastes, but there is such a thing as having bad taste ;)
I guess Bunyan didn't focus enough on the realization of our hopes and dreams and how God will bless us, and the importance of identity affirmation. 😫 🤒
I just finished reading Pilgrims Progress a few months ago and I found it incredibly engaging and riveting. It was hard to put down. It’s and incredibly well told and incredibly relatable. Their critiques are not really fair or well grounded, more opinions than actually critique.
I do think Moore does make a fair assessment of Puritan literature in that it can very introspective. But to blanket an entire era of writing isn’t a helpful approach either.
Love your videos. Thank you for doing this!
I was richly blessed by pilgrim's Progress when I read it, and plan on reading it again many many times. I'm not sure how you can read such a beautiful book and not be in love with it. Pilgrim's Progress, and Religious Affections by JE have been my favorite books so far in my Christian walk. Pilgrim's Progress is definitely my favorite work of literature because of it's rich Bible content. I am so thankful Matthew that you made this great video explaining why you lovingly disagree and appreciate Both Grace Abounding and Pilgrim's Progress. They are two wonderful books that are imbued with the Gospel. The Lord Bless you, I've been greatly helped by your RUclips videos for many years now. Thanks Brother
COULD THEIR COMMENTS SHOW THE DEPT OR LACK OF IN THE VIEWS?? JUST SAYING. . . .
I was waiting for this.
We read Pilgrim’s Progress to 50 kids in our homeschool co-op (3 different versions to the different age groups). Such an incredible story of God’s redemption.
Moore & De Mez are leftists and although I’m not the arbiter of salvation…. I do question theirs.
I join you in your opinion! Rather shocked at the takes of the other two.
I love the book and Bunyan’s writing style. But we must be fair: it is hard for Christian to live life with grace under his feet. In this book he had not learned very well to live out of grace before entering the Celestial City. That can be some critique. But overall it is a gem and real masterpiece. Bless from the Netherlands.
They are both accusers of the brethren. Way lost. So tiresome
Pilgrim's Progress certainly lives up to its very high standing among Christians. Bunyan is a great hero in Christian history and what a great example he is for all of us. Where do these folks in your video critique get their ideas from?
Pilgrim’s Progress is probably my favorite book after the Bible. Hard to understand how a professor discussing it with students could find it to be a “drag”. It is a beautiful piece of literature and an inspiring story of the Christian journey.
Never read it but I will definitely add it to my list.
Their comments and discussion sounds like someone who just doesn't get it, much like what I'd expect from Joe Rogan. Seems par for the course with these folks.
Dear Pastor Matt, would you please consider making a video on the Pericope Adulterae? You have specific content on the longer ending of Mark and the Johannine Comma, which leaves the Pericope as the only other variant of such a substantive extent. It’s dear to the heart of many Christians, and I know you embrace it now in light of your Majority Text position, but the evidential case for this one is rather complex and arguable from both sides. Such a video would be a great blessing to the Church, because you are a rare voice approaching textual issues in a way that is devotional, gentle, informed, and neither dismissive nor conspiratorial. Thank you for your work for the Kingdom, and lots of love in the Lord from South Africa!
“The people who have a real bone to pick with the Puritans are those who have not read them. The Puritans are very open to substantial criticism by groups that are much more liberal than they are because as soon as you have a group that is much more conservative than you and has a much greater focus on godliness than you, you want to pick them apart because they are so godly. One could come up with a criticism like this: 'They [the Puritans] are way too legalistic.' I have read the Puritans all my life, and they come down hard on legalism, but they are very strong on living holy and solely for Jesus out of gratitude. What that means for them is that they deny certain things. They didn't trust their own hearts and they wanted to live close to God like Daniel in Daniel 1. They didn't want to defile themselves. If you read the Puritans, you'll see their love for Christ and their love for living holy and solely for the Triune God and wanting to dedicate their entire lives to God."
- Joel Beeke
Here's a good review of The Pilgrim's Progress:
Bunyan (1628-88)
If the Commedia is the finest specimen of Christian fiction in general, and Catholic fiction in particular, then the Pilgrim’s Progress is the finest specimen of Evangelical fiction in general, and Reformed fiction in particular. What a difference a Reformation makes! Although I admire Dante’s peerless artistry, I can never love his vision, whereas the Pilgrim’s Progress would be in my backpack for the proverbial desert island.
Unlike Dante’s narrative journey, Bunyan’s is fundamentally allegorical. Hence, Bunyan escapes anachronism, for the reader does not have to adjust his viewpoint to modernity. If a modern reader finds Bunyan incredible or even repellent, this is not because he is a modern reader, but because he cannot stand the theology. For a Calvinist, past or present, the allegory is quite credible on its own level.
But even if the reader buys into Bunyan’s scale of values, his methods are somewhat in tension with his aims. For Christian is in such a hurry to escape the world that the reader glimpses the world in a sideways blur.
Although Bunyan warns the reader and tells the reader to flee the city of destruction, he shows him precious little. Bunyan is better on pride of life than the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh. No Alpine vistas. No Venetian sunsets. No marble palaces. No siren-songed ladies. Why the omission?
One reason may simply be that Bunyan was not a man of the world. He could not write Byronically had he wanted to, for he had never done the Grand Tour of the Continent or the Orient. Thus the kingdoms of the world and the glory thereof were not within reach of his imagination.
But there is, I suspect, a deeper aversion. Bunyan is so fearful of subjecting his readers to the fate of Lot’s wife that he dare not show them the cities on the plain, lest he and they should suffer the same Medusian fate.
So this creates a certain narrative tension. If no man having put his hand to the plow and sneaking a backward glance is fit for the kingdom, then Bunyan can only show the reader where he is headed, but not how he got there. And, of course, Bunyan cannot maintain that viewpoint consistently, for we would never see the pilgrimage, but only the destination. Now, Bunyan can try to get around this by allegorizing the world, the flesh and the devil, but, of course, the average reader is not tempted by the symbols, but by what they symbolize. What the reader does not derive from Bunyan is any palpable sense of loss, of what was left behind, of why it should be such a wrenching experience to tear oneself away from the city of destruction.
And this is a real challenge for Christian fiction, be it by a novelist or poet, playwright, screenwriter or short storyteller. How do we write about temptation without tempting the reader? How do we avoid voyeurism and complicity without contriving a doll house world in which no reader either lives or so desires? Is there a happy mean between the obscenity of the Inferno and the effeminacy the Heir of Redclyffe?
This is largely a matter of degree. It is one thing to offer a thumbnail sketch of the perennial temptations and fellow feelings with which everyone is familiar, quite another to initiate or saturate the reader in various refinements of evil. Our job is not to acquaint the reader with evil or deepen his acquaintance, but to say enough that he can recognize and relate to the situation. Where sin is concerned, what the author has to contribute is not so much his magnified powers of sight, but his powers of moral insight-by showing the reader how sin is seen from a God’s-eye viewpoint, under judgment and mercy. And that is the balance we find in the Bible, with its blunt, but brief hammer strokes.
Bunyan’s personified vices and virtues follow in a long legacy that reaches back through Spencer (Faerie Queene), Langland (Piers Plowman), and Dante (Commedia), to Prudentius (Psychomachia). It is generally difficult for a reader to cozy up to a personified virtue. Dante pulls it off by using real men and women whereas Bunyan succeeds by relying on his lively imagination and natural command of the common touch. Bunyan, like Dante, is at once poetic and plainspoken. He can say more with one arresting phrase than Tolkien can in fifty pages of lead-booted prose.
Bunyan is above all a spiritual guide, and he doesn’t trust the reader to draw the moral of the story. So he breaks the spell from time to time. This is not only an artistic flaw, but unnecessary from a pedagogical standpoint. Instead of breaking the allegory, he should extend the allegory by drawing on more metaphors. The Bible is chock-full of spiritual similes that Bunyan could spin into further vignettes. They would make his doctrinal points consistent with the roadside allegory.
In some says, Bunyan, with his extreme heavenly-mindedness, represents a limiting-case of the Anabaptist philosophy of history. Bunyan’s otherworldliness is owing, in part, to the popular confusion of the intermediate state with the final state. Given this conflation, there is no distinction between the world and worldliness. To be truly spiritual and heavenly-minded is to be otherworldly. A worldly-denying piety is identical with a world-denying piety.
Now, this is a half-truth, and shares all the virtues and vices of a half-truth. Life here-below is often poor, brutish, nasty and short. We leave the world as naked as we came, and death seals our eternal fate for better or worse.
But the effort to treat men as angels fosters a hypocritical piety. By being cheated of half our birthright we are thereby led to despise the natural goods of God and feign to be something we are not and ought not and cannot be.
Another source of Bunyan’s otherworldliness is doubtless the fact that he lived in times of social unrest and upheaval, and was famously the target of religious persecution. Writing from a prison cell in revolutionary times naturally lent an apocalyptic temper and tempo to his outlook-especially in the first installment.
There is a related element which is missing from The Pilgrim's Progress-especially in the first part. A Christian pilgrim has a duty to maintain the trail for those that come after-to weed it, to repair a fallen guidepost, to clear away moss on the landmarks, to keep it from becoming overgrown. We are on a journey, but we must stop, from time to time, to keep the trail open for the benefit of those that follow in our footsteps.
That, of course, is the reason why Bunyan wrote the story in the first place-as a travel guide for future pilgrims. But even though the author is a travel guide, the character of Christian is not. And in his haste to make it into Immanuel's Land without a pause or backward glance, there is the unwitting and irresponsible suggestion that we should only concern ourselves with our own soul's salvation, and not with the welfare of those that must someday trod the same path. But a good guide will sometimes tarry, or even backtrack, to lead some stragglers up the trail. Every delay is not a default.
After his release from prison, we observe a shift in emphasis from the bridge-burning fervor and breathless alacrity of the first installment to the more chivalric mood and cadence of the sequel, with Great-heart assuming a knightly role as he protects and escorts Christiana and her youthful brood. And this, of course, reflects a shift in Bunyan’s personal fortunes-released from solitary confinement to take up the more leisurely, comforting and communal domesticities of marital life and pastoral ministry. They may still be nomads, with the Promised Land afar off, but they have found a little oasis in the wilderness-or maybe a tree-lined stream skirting the trail.
Has Bunyan gone soft out of the saddle? The fact is that both installments of the PP are appropriate to Christian experience-depending on the varied circumstances of our pilgrimage. In general, most believers will marry and raise up seed to the Lord. And family life needs a certain element of stability. But some believers have been called upon to suffer severe persecution for the faith.
The character of Christian presents a striking contrast to the traits of the epic hero. To go from Gilgamesh, Perseus, Theseus, Odysseus, Diomedes, Achilles and the like to Christian marks a seismic shift in moral theology. They triumph by dint of their resourceful self-reliance, but Christian triumphs by grace and faith. True to his name, Great-heart is another one of the supreme characters of world literature, and impossible apart from the revelation of the Gospel.
Steve Hays, Triablogue
i've had multiple attempts at reading Pilgrim's Progress and i just can't get into it -- something about the flow. GOD Bless
I had to pause 0:54 to make this comment. I listen to Russel Moore's comments on Twitter. I love Pilgrims Progress. I think the issue is that the puritans teaching really goes after the soul of man. I believe that when one of my professors was teaching a Spiritual Discipline class the book they were assign to was J.I. Packer 's book Knowing God. I waled int he student center and was found abandon. The Idea for some Evangelicals is that they want to love one another and love everybody without knowing theoloy.
"the puritans teaching really goes after the soul of man." Well said. They had, of course, an approach to the psychology of conversion that comes out of that. But mostly, IMO, the thing is they took it so seriously. I don't know if anyone today, with our mental furniture, can duplicate that, especially the 17th century examples.
Matthew, you are too kind! The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14 This would aptly describe these so-called "Christian scholars".
Not surprised from Russel Moore. Pilgrim's Progress is amazing
Taking God and the Word of God seriously may appear to some morose, but it is merely the springboard to "a joy unspeakable and full of glory." How often do the stories in Pilgrim's Progress find application to the Christian life! I can think of no book covering so well and completely the challenges and triumphs of the Christian life.
Over here on my side of things, we don't take what clowns say or think seriously. Russ Moore and K.Prior are useful to point and laugh at sometimes or better yet to be ignored. What they have to say, especially on any topic touching Christianity is last on the list of anything even close to relevant. Actually, in many instances you would be very well served if you took what they were saying and then went ahead and did the exact opposite.
I'm here to bash on them for sure.
I think Moore and Pryor's take is indicative of a deeper problem within evangelicalism today. They desire to abandon the old writers, books, and hymns in favor of what makes their itching ears feel good in that moment. They promote psychology and a "modern" approach over sound doctrine and study of the Word. The result has been that we have large churches that feed on fluff but have no root. I have had these two writers on my radar for a couple years, and deeply question their motives.
Seriously, don't you get that these people loath reformed theology???
Sounds like these critics only want happy happy joy joy.” Not real life.
Haters are going to hate , no matter how good something is someone is going to criticize it
Read Perkins and Owen. Their works are soooo good. To be quite frank, I don’t think Moore has read enough of the Puritans or British Reformed theology.
Charles Spurgeon on John Bunyan:
Read anything of his, and you will see that it is almost like the reading the Bible itself. He had read it till his very soul was saturated with Scripture; and, though his writings are charmingly full of poetry, yet he cannot give us his Pilgrim’s Progress-that sweetest of all prose poems - without continually making us feel and say, “Why, this man is a living Bible!” Prick him anywhere-his blood is Bibline, the very essence of the Bible flows from him. He cannot speak without quoting a text, for his very soul is full of the Word of God. I commend his example to you, beloved.
Pastor Everhard, I commend you for being far kinder to Moore and KSP than they deserve. To call Pilgrim's Progress "cold" is just slanderous.
Though I'm not surprised to hear a couple of woke Big Eva types crap on the Puritans. All the more reason to not listen to them, in my opinion.
As for me, I found it to be deeply moving, a balm to my soul, and wonderful. And I've found the Puritans to be the same. I wish more of today's theologians wrote and thought more like them. It may change American Christianity for the better.
After listening to modern tirades against the great creeds of the Church, one receives rather a shock when one turns to the Westminster Confession, for example, or to that tenderest and most theological of books, the ‘Pilgrim's Progress’ of John Bunyan, and discovers that in doing so one has turned from shallow modern phrases to a "dead orthodoxy" that is pulsating with life in every word. In such orthodoxy there is life enough to set the whole world aglow with Christian love.
-J. Gresham Machen in Christianity and Liberalism.
Calling this book a “drag” to read indicates a Luke warmness in my thoughts. If you’re not really saved and feeling convicted and challenged but don’t want to feel that way it certainly would be a “drag” to read Pilgrim’s Progress!
I'm both surprised at their views considering Pilgrims Progress long existence and not surprised considering the rampant plague of liberalism in the church, predating Spurgeon's time in the pulpit. Widespread distrust of truth and emphasis on "me first" is keeping many from learning from this excellent book, which I myself have read in both the classic(though harder for me to read) and modernized versions(being able to compare, the modernized is faithful to the original, just updating archaic words and using ESV I believe for the scripture references)
I have the works of John Bunyan (the three volume, Banner of Truth set) in my personal library. After I’m done with Matthew Henry’s commentaries, I will prayerfully read Bunyan. The little that I’ve read from Mr. Bunyan really warmed my heart. How could anyone say that his “Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners,” is creepy!?!? I’m done with these, “professional public theologian,” types. Bring me my Bible and the Puritans!
God created objectivity, and pilgrims progress and objectively a masterwork
This is a non-sequitur not related to Moore’s assessment on Pilgrims Progress. Having said that, the podcast Mortification of Spin hosted by Carl Trueman there is some public information on Moore that needs to be known:
ruclips.net/video/2phgTiR5_9c/видео.htmlfeature=shared
I wouldn’t put much stock in anything Russell Moore has to say. A little research will show why .
I cannot understand how Russel Moore and Karen Swallow Prior could speak so belittling Pilgrim's Progress and Puritans. It makes me sad that they have no appreciation for this great literary work.
PP is fiction, and we all have different tastes in fiction. What would possess anyone to question someone's faith or theology or ecclesiology based on their appreciation for a work of fiction?
Also, times change. A book (by a human author) can be a cultural phenomenon for a long time, but that doesn't mean it's going to have mass appeal forever.
When someone talks about "reading the Puritans", would that include Pilgrim's Progress? If not, where would one start in reading the Puritans?
Yes, Bunyan was a Puritan. If you’re looking for a good place to start, John Owen’s Mortification of Sin is excellent. Richard Sibbes’ The Bruised Reed, or William Gurnall’s Christian in Complete Armor are excellent. Enjoy!
@@matthewdyer2926 Noted! Thanks!
All Things for Good (Thomas Watson). The Rare Jewel of Christian Contentment (Jeremiah Burroughs)
@@thomasdaniel22 Thanks!
I think that non believers or liberal Christians in name only would find Pilgrims Progress a drag.
I am a big fan of the Puritans especially John Owen. Also Sibbes and Bunyan. I liked Grace abounding to the chief of sinners. I read it while in England with my seminary. We went to Bunyan's church among many others. I was fascinated with how open and honest Bunyan was. To put it politely, he had some issues. Of course he was in prison. But I remember commenting to others that Grace Abounding, while fascinating, was somewhat hard to read because Bunyan was so depressed. Again he was in prison and he knew he was a sinner in front of a holy God. To read something so honest about one's inner life by one so depressed can be seen as a little creepy. I think that is fair in the sense I think Bunyan might agree. His inner life was dark and he was very moody and depressed. But that is what makes the book great also. It is about a guy who does not have it all together. He is only standing firm because of the Holy Spirit. Other wise he would have no hope at all.
AS far as Pilgrim's Progress goes. I have to agree with Moore and Swallow that it is not a very great read. I did not experience any great truths that I could not learn elsewhere from a more enjoyable format. And that is fine. PP is not the Bible and no one is going to hell because they could not stand PP. Not saying anyone is saying exactly that but my point is that people can have contrasting views about the text. I think I did not like how close of an analogy it was to the Christian life. It felt cheesy. I like Lewis and Tolkien's works more as they tried to not write strict analogies to the Christian life.
I agree with your take on Pilgrims progress, I personally found it painful to read and didn't feel like it provided anything that wasn't already expressed either more clearly and/or more enjoyably in other formats.
I would question putting Lewis on any lists without a caveat of his very questionable positions as a quasi-Anglo Catholic.
Depends on what you are comparing it with. And you'r audience....
Christian walking beneath the wayside cross as the burden slips from off his back is one of the most moving pieces of literature ever written. That these two knuckleheads would speak so negatively about such a classic Christian work as Pilgrim’s Progress, or the Puritans themselves for that matter, is just further indication that they’re not serious or solid theologians.
If you don’t enjoy reading Pilgrim’s Progress, then you may well be unconverted. A believer finds himself in all the adventures of Christian - a man being saved from his sin, but a false convert finds himself in all the other characters and is therefore judged by his own conscience.
If Mr. Moore doesn’t like it, then every Christian should read it.
This is not shocking at all……
You’re right and they are wrong again.
Spurgeon on the Christian's fear of falling into apostasy:
"He has discovered that there are Hills of Difficulty and Valleys of Humiliation; that there is a Vale of Deathshade, and, worse still, a Vanity Fair-and all these are to be traversed. If there be Delectable Mountains (and, thank God, there are,) there are also Castles of Despair, the inside of which pilgrims have too often seen. "
C. H. Spurgeon, All of Grace: An Earnest Word with Those Who Are Seeking Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ, pg 112.
Russel moore just creeps me out.
I find Moore and Prior to be cold, creepy, and a drag to listen to.
As a member of your former church, I deserve to know if the painting in the back is of Jonah or Moby dick?
Those two are wrong on most things, not surprising that they are in error here too.
No doubt in my mind they are speaking what they truly believe. Wouldn't be the most radical liberal thing to come from them.
What can you expect from people who don’t believe the Bible to be God’s inspired and authoritative word!
I don't like the beginning. A person usually does not leave their familt to find truth. Maybe after finding truth you may leave the. "Let the dead bury the dead.. "
Moore likes the "person" of John Bunyan, but just not as expressed in his writings, which impressed John Owen...ok then 🤷♂