Sir, you read my mind in the way you're doing that paint job. First, the airbrush and second, the type of paint used for this job. An airbrush is messy and needs a lot of masking or protecting of oversprays. But it's so rewarding at the end. That's the only way of covering everything with a thin layer of paint. Witch is not the case with a brush. Finally, Badger paint. It's the best "sticky" paint I've ever used in the past 25 years. It's really hard to remove when you have to. So at the end, you've done a very nice painting job with those tracks. Keep on your good work.
Subscribed...😁 So I can learn to improve my Model Railroad. Thank You for your videos and service to the Model Railroad Community on RUclips while others are leaving RUclips to make us pay via subscriptions. Thank you for not doing that. The Model Railroad industry is already expensive enough.
New use for a shop vac. I bought a small one and in addition to using it to vacuum ash from my smoker grill, I could use on the layout when painting track. Thanks Larry.
Thank you for another great and informative Video. I live in Devon and worked on the P. Way at Okehampton which was on the old Southern Railway Mainline to Plymouth and Cornwall. Our Ballast came from Meldon Quarry and was grey Limestone, not Granite as some People believe. Meldon was owned by the Railway and one of the Southern’s main Quarries. The Great Western locally obtained it’s Ballast from Stoneycombe just west of Newton Abbot which supplied Limestone too and it’s actual Color was almost Red, certainly a pinkish colour. Limestone made a good Ballast as it had good angularity and made it really good at providing good Support to the P. Way. All the best Larry, keep safe.
Peter, thanks for that very specific information on ballast. In the photos I have for the Ashburton, Moretonhampstead, and Teign Valley branches the ballast looks almost white but most are either B&W or date from the 1950-60s so, pink might look white or,light grey. I have a recent color photo of the track at Staverton Halt that was recently ballasted and the ballast they used is almost white so maybe they are getting it from another quarry these days. That area has a lot of variety in the geology and you can actually find volcanics in east Devon along with granite, and many sedimentary rocks of Devonian age. I know that there were numerous quarries in that area that kept the Teign Valley trains busy during the 1930s including the Scatterrock Quarry that had a siding at Christow. I guess I need to find out just what kind of rock they were quarrying. There is a small book on mining and quarrying in the Teign Valley on eBay right now.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you for your Reply Larry, I hope you didn’t think I was being picky, that wasn’t my intention at all and although I remember Stoneycombe Ballast as being a Pinkish hue, as you say, the Western did have access to other Quarries too . I also saw that they’ve recently been reballasting on the South Devon Railway. I really look forward to your Video, and shall look forward to your next.
Peter, I found some interesting information on the Scatter Rock Quarry near Christow on the Teign Valley line. This quarry was working an area of black basalt and because of the hardness and angularity of the product it was very popular for roadways and ballast. As a matter of fact they had a contract with the railroad (Exeter, Teign Valley, and Chagford) to provide ballast for construction of the line from Christow to Exeter (the Chagford extension was never built). So as laid the roadbed would have been very dark. However all the color and B&W photos I have seen show a much lighter color ballast so they must have reballasted it considerably after the quarry closed and the baryte mine took over the siding at Christow. The ballast now being used on the South Devon is very light grey in some areas, especially around Totnes and Staverton. I also have seen photos of the area near Ashburton when it was still active around 1970 that was light grey as well. (As an ex-US Geological Survery scientist I am very interested in geology).
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry, I really enjoy our long distance Chats over the Internet. I had a Suspicion that you had a Geological Background. I was talking to my Wife this morning and mentioned our Discussion, and she reminded me that on one Occasion I bought Home a small Piece of Orange Coloured Quartz that I discovered whilst out packing the Track at a spot where we’d recently had some Stoneycombe Ballast dropped. I took it Home because it was so beautiful and unlike the Quartz found in our local Meldon Ballast. Dropping Ballast could be quite entertaining, we had quite a few Waggons designed to drop it, Seacows, Walrus and Dogfish were the main Types. There were three manual Controls either end, so you could drop in the Four foot or Sleeper ends. You have to be very careful dropping the Ballast, especially if the Waggon didn’t have Plates, which meant that the Ballast could fall from the Waggon too quickly, and I’ve seen Waggons derail themselves if the Operators had been too heavy handed when dropping the Stone, much to the displeasure of the Engineering Inspector and embarrassment of the Platelayer (Trackman). If you are interested I’ll explain how we used to manually pack the Track using a System called measured shovel packing. I won’t be at all offended if your not interested. Keep Safe. Thanks once again.
Some viewers may be familiar with this material, others may have no idea where to start so I have to provide the material in a way ALL will hopefully comprehend and find useful.
My layout is N scale and will be in the living room. If I paint my track in my living room, are there any fumes from using Acrylic paint in an Airbrush? I thought about Spray can painting doing each piece of track in my garage and then assembling it on the layout, what do you think about that vs laying the track and then airbrushing it? Oh, I'm using Kato Unitrack, there is No flex track, and the drop feeders will be all soldered first from under the track.
While you can spray paint in advance it does mean that you have to remove paint from the ends of the rails when joining them to get good electrical conductance. When using flex track it can also make it difficult for the rails to move in the spike heads and when they do it scrapes off the paint. While acrylic paint itself may not be toxic, breathing in the fine particles of paint can create breathing problems. When I spray my track I use acrylic paint and use a shop vac held behind the track to collect overspray, plus I wear a dust mask to prevent breathing in overspray.
What did you end up doing with those bits that you masked off? Did you paint them by hand? I masked that stuff off on the first part of my layout, but in the second section I wired up the frogs to change polarity and isolated them from the point rails, but also bridged the point rails to the stock rails. I just sprayed indiscriminately with the points in the middle (peco with the spring removed) and they work great. N scale electro frog Peco turnouts.
I painted them by hand but I actually could have just blasted away since all my rails are bonded. That said I think it helps to prevent getting any moving parts and joints gummed up with paint.
I'm glad you showed the airbrush and spray can method even you didn't paint your rails that way. I have an airbrush but the last time I tried it didn't work. So I went with the spray paint and have had good using a flat brown. My layout is in my garage so I just open my garage door so fumes will go out. I live in California so our climate is pretty much the same year round. What about painting feeders? Should those be covered and not painted as it providing the track power and signal to the decoder? Have a good weekend. Chuck
What’s up with Badger ModelFlex changing from the bottles that screw right on to your airbrush, to flip cap bottles similar to Apple Barrel craft paints? Why did they do that?!
I am torn between painting rails and chemically weathering them. I paint them outdoors and scrape off the area where contacted by rail joiners before installing them. Saves a lot of trouble.
I’ve done it both ways and settled onto air brushing. The advantage of spraying individual sections outdoors is you can use spray cans which generally go much faster since with the enamels and organic solvents you get better coverage in one pass.
Most is just a surface layer so yes I believe it does. It basically is a light abrasive, not enough to scar the metal but just enough to remove dirt, oil, grunge, and the oxidation layer. Sort of like polishing silver with a dry cloth.
I obviously prefer painting afterwards but some folks like to do it before. Read through the comments on that video as we had a good discussion on that question.
Is there any benefit from painting the rails before you lay them or would that mean extra work repainting gaps after laying the track? I'm thinking with lengths of flextrack away from yard areas.
You'd have to scrape off the paint if you wanted to solder droppers on. You might also find some paint comes off when you are handling and laying track in position, particularly on curves or point work.
I have done that -once.I also have used MicroEngineering pre-weathered flextrack. I prefer painting after the track is down. In addition to the soldering issue, I found that during moving the track about the molded in spikes can actually scrape off paint, requiring touch ups. And assuming you plan to weather the track and ballast you’ll have to paint it once it is down also, so might as well dive in.
It varies with the paint. Some brands and colors are thicker than others and require more dilution. I use anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 paint to water. With track I dilute with distilled water but for models and in my spray booth I use a 50:50 mix of water and isopropyl alcohol for dilution as the alcohol speeds drying. I shoot for a mix that gives a final consistency about like milk. You basically need to experiment with your own air brush, air pressure, and type of paint to get a feel for what works best for you.
I don’t do it myself mainly because I use flex track and the flexing after painting can scrape the paint off at the cast in spikes, etc. It also means you have to diligently clean off the paint at the ends of the rails to attach rail joiners and solder them and to attach feeders. I feel it gives a more even application doing it once the rails are down on the roadbed. On the positive side you can take the track outside and pre-paint it there instead of in the layout room. I have done it both ways and now paint after laying the track.
If you catch it when it is still a bit soft you can use a scrap of cork roadbed. If you wait till it starts to harden then try a rubber eraser and after that a brite boy. I have even heard of folks having to resort to the tip of a flat end screwdriver but not s good idea.
It never has come off of mine. The alcohol is only on it a very short time and most is down in the ballast, then it usually evaporates within a few hours. Just let the paint harden before doing any ballasting. Heck mine may sit days or weeks before I get around to ballasting it.
I was pondering if you could take individual pieces of track, tacking them to a board then take the whole thing outdoors and spray the pieces prior to gluing them to the layout, this might be doable even if it is cold outside.
See my answer to another comment on doing it this way. As for starting at the front, sometimes filming pushes you to do things out of sequence. I had not planned on doing the middle track but finished the front one quicker so went on with it. In a yard I definitely would start at the rear and work out. In this case it wasn’t a problem though.
HI Larry, what about poor guys like me that don't have an air brush , a demo painting by hand and a brush would be welcome ( if you find the time some days ) thanks anyway.
Like I said in the video, if you don’t have an airbrush then grab a spray can and head for the back yard. I can’t imagine doing this with a brush and those marker type pens sold for track painting don’t work worth a snot.
Why not paint all your track BEFORE you install it? If you paint all of it ahead of time you don't need to mask anything off. Why not use a little planning? The other advantage is you can paint all sides very easily and do it and an environment you can easily vent, or better yet outside.
I addressed the potential issues with pre-painting track in a prior comments, you might want to go back and read through them. I have done it in advance and find it creates more work in the long run.
Big no no. Especially when laying flex track, the flexibility of the track will likely become compromised because now theres paint blocking the tie plates and spikes.
@@FlyingCrow oh ok. I'm normally against doing it that way because the acrylic would immediately rub off while flexing. As long as it works out though!
Sir, you read my mind in the way you're doing that paint job. First, the airbrush and second, the type of paint used for this job. An airbrush is messy and needs a lot of masking or protecting of oversprays. But it's so rewarding at the end. That's the only way of covering everything with a thin layer of paint. Witch is not the case with a brush. Finally, Badger paint. It's the best "sticky" paint I've ever used in the past 25 years. It's really hard to remove when you have to. So at the end, you've done a very nice painting job with those tracks. Keep on your good work.
Subscribed...😁 So I can learn to improve my Model Railroad.
Thank You for your videos and service to the Model Railroad Community on RUclips while others are leaving RUclips to make us pay via subscriptions. Thank you for not doing that. The Model Railroad industry is already expensive enough.
Good work Larry as usual 3 thumbs up👍👍👍. Keep them coming
New use for a shop vac. I bought a small one and in addition to using it to vacuum ash from my smoker grill, I could use on the layout when painting track. Thanks Larry.
Thank you very much Larry- I always learn a great deal from your videos, and you inspire me to “go ahead and” give things a try.
Great tips
Thanks Larry really enjoyed watching this tutorial
Nick Australia
Thank you for another great and informative Video. I live in Devon and worked on the P. Way at Okehampton which was on the old Southern Railway Mainline to Plymouth and Cornwall. Our Ballast came from Meldon Quarry and was grey Limestone, not Granite as some People believe. Meldon was owned by the Railway and one of the Southern’s main Quarries. The Great Western locally obtained it’s Ballast from Stoneycombe just west of Newton Abbot which supplied Limestone too and it’s actual Color was almost Red, certainly a pinkish colour. Limestone made a good Ballast as it had good angularity and made it really good at providing good Support to the P. Way. All the best Larry, keep safe.
Peter, thanks for that very specific information on ballast. In the photos I have for the Ashburton, Moretonhampstead, and Teign Valley branches the ballast looks almost white but most are either B&W or date from the 1950-60s so, pink might look white or,light grey. I have a recent color photo of the track at Staverton Halt that was recently ballasted and the ballast they used is almost white so maybe they are getting it from another quarry these days. That area has a lot of variety in the geology and you can actually find volcanics in east Devon along with granite, and many sedimentary rocks of Devonian age. I know that there were numerous quarries in that area that kept the Teign Valley trains busy during the 1930s including the Scatterrock Quarry that had a siding at Christow. I guess I need to find out just what kind of rock they were quarrying. There is a small book on mining and quarrying in the Teign Valley on eBay right now.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you for your Reply Larry, I hope you didn’t think I was being picky, that wasn’t my intention at all and although I remember Stoneycombe Ballast as being a Pinkish hue, as you say, the Western did have access to other Quarries too . I also saw that they’ve recently been reballasting on the South Devon Railway. I really look forward to your Video, and shall look forward to your next.
No not at all, first hand information like that is great to have.
Peter, I found some interesting information on the Scatter Rock Quarry near Christow on the Teign Valley line. This quarry was working an area of black basalt and because of the hardness and angularity of the product it was very popular for roadways and ballast. As a matter of fact they had a contract with the railroad (Exeter, Teign Valley, and Chagford) to provide ballast for construction of the line from Christow to Exeter (the Chagford extension was never built). So as laid the roadbed would have been very dark. However all the color and B&W photos I have seen show a much lighter color ballast so they must have reballasted it considerably after the quarry closed and the baryte mine took over the siding at Christow. The ballast now being used on the South Devon is very light grey in some areas, especially around Totnes and Staverton. I also have seen photos of the area near Ashburton when it was still active around 1970 that was light grey as well. (As an ex-US Geological Survery scientist I am very interested in geology).
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry, I really enjoy our long distance Chats over the Internet. I had a Suspicion that you had a Geological Background. I was talking to my Wife this morning and mentioned our Discussion, and she reminded me that on one Occasion I bought Home a small Piece of Orange Coloured Quartz that I discovered whilst out packing the Track at a spot where we’d recently had some Stoneycombe Ballast dropped. I took it Home because it was so beautiful and unlike the Quartz found in our local Meldon Ballast. Dropping Ballast could be quite entertaining, we had quite a few Waggons designed to drop it, Seacows, Walrus and Dogfish were the main Types. There were three manual Controls either end, so you could drop in the Four foot or Sleeper ends. You have to be very careful dropping the Ballast, especially if the Waggon didn’t have Plates, which meant that the Ballast could fall from the Waggon too quickly, and I’ve seen Waggons derail themselves if the Operators had been too heavy handed when dropping the Stone, much to the displeasure of the Engineering Inspector and embarrassment of the Platelayer (Trackman). If you are interested I’ll explain how we used to manually pack the Track using a System called measured shovel packing. I won’t be at all offended if your not interested. Keep Safe. Thanks once again.
Takes a LOT of words to explain simple concepts !
Some viewers may be familiar with this material, others may have no idea where to start so I have to provide the material in a way ALL will hopefully comprehend and find useful.
Thanks Larry!!
super video Petr
My layout is N scale and will be in the living room. If I paint my track in my living room, are there any fumes from using Acrylic paint in an Airbrush? I thought about Spray can painting doing each piece of track in my garage and then assembling it on the layout, what do you think about that vs laying the track and then airbrushing it? Oh, I'm using Kato Unitrack, there is No flex track, and the drop feeders will be all soldered first from under the track.
While you can spray paint in advance it does mean that you have to remove paint from the ends of the rails when joining them to get good electrical conductance. When using flex track it can also make it difficult for the rails to move in the spike heads and when they do it scrapes off the paint. While acrylic paint itself may not be toxic, breathing in the fine particles of paint can create breathing problems. When I spray my track I use acrylic paint and use a shop vac held behind the track to collect overspray, plus I wear a dust mask to prevent breathing in overspray.
What did you end up doing with those bits that you masked off? Did you paint them by hand? I masked that stuff off on the first part of my layout, but in the second section I wired up the frogs to change polarity and isolated them from the point rails, but also bridged the point rails to the stock rails. I just sprayed indiscriminately with the points in the middle (peco with the spring removed) and they work great. N scale electro frog Peco turnouts.
I painted them by hand but I actually could have just blasted away since all my rails are bonded. That said I think it helps to prevent getting any moving parts and joints gummed up with paint.
I'm glad you showed the airbrush and spray can method even you didn't paint your rails that way. I have an airbrush but the last time I tried it didn't work. So I went with the spray paint and have had good using a flat brown. My layout is in my garage so I just open my garage door so fumes will go out. I live in California so our climate is pretty much the same year round. What about painting feeders? Should those be covered and not painted as it providing the track power and signal to the decoder? Have a good weekend.
Chuck
Chuck, once it is soldered to the rails you can paint away and it helps disguise them.
What’s up with Badger ModelFlex changing from the bottles that screw right on to your airbrush, to flip cap bottles similar to Apple Barrel craft paints? Why did they do that?!
I know, I had to order a dozen Badger glass bottles for air brushing. I think it is the trend now in all the major hobby paints.
I am torn between painting rails and chemically weathering them. I paint them outdoors and scrape off the area where contacted by rail joiners before installing them. Saves a lot of trouble.
I’ve done it both ways and settled onto air brushing. The advantage of spraying individual sections outdoors is you can use spray cans which generally go much faster since with the enamels and organic solvents you get better coverage in one pass.
Can the cork remove oxidation off the rails?
Most is just a surface layer so yes I believe it does. It basically is a light abrasive, not enough to scar the metal but just enough to remove dirt, oil, grunge, and the oxidation layer. Sort of like polishing silver with a dry cloth.
Abrasives on rails help them oxidize MUCH faster.
For a moment I thought you were Gary Puckett and The Union Gap.
You’re showing your age if you remember him.
@@TheDCCGuy After you reach a certain age you don't care how you are and don't care if anyone else knows either.
Yes, I know the feeling!
Dang ! All along I thought he was Booker T and the M.G.'s.
Not clear.... How does the colour of the paint make it go on thicker ?
Different color pigments are different sizes which affects how they spray and cover.
which is better? painting the track before you lay it or after?
I obviously prefer painting afterwards but some folks like to do it before. Read through the comments on that video as we had a good discussion on that question.
Is there any benefit from painting the rails before you lay them or would that mean extra work repainting gaps after laying the track? I'm thinking with lengths of flextrack away from yard areas.
You'd have to scrape off the paint if you wanted to solder droppers on. You might also find some paint comes off when you are handling and laying track in position, particularly on curves or point work.
@@1701_FyldeFlyer good point. I am thinking of soldering as many droppers as I can up front following mixed success with my soldering.
I have done that -once.I also have used MicroEngineering pre-weathered flextrack. I prefer painting after the track is down. In addition to the soldering issue, I found that during moving the track about the molded in spikes can actually scrape off paint, requiring touch ups. And assuming you plan to weather the track and ballast you’ll have to paint it once it is down also, so might as well dive in.
What ratio of pain to thinner is recommended?
It varies with the paint. Some brands and colors are thicker than others and require more dilution. I use anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 paint to water. With track I dilute with distilled water but for models and in my spray booth I use a 50:50 mix of water and isopropyl alcohol for dilution as the alcohol speeds drying. I shoot for a mix that gives a final consistency about like milk. You basically need to experiment with your own air brush, air pressure, and type of paint to get a feel for what works best for you.
Do you paint the taped off areas later by hand?
Yes, I’ll go over that when we get ready to ballast.
What’s your opinion on weathering track before you put it down?
I don’t do it myself mainly because I use flex track and the flexing after painting can scrape the paint off at the cast in spikes, etc. It also means you have to diligently clean off the paint at the ends of the rails to attach rail joiners and solder them and to attach feeders. I feel it gives a more even application doing it once the rails are down on the roadbed. On the positive side you can take the track outside and pre-paint it there instead of in the layout room. I have done it both ways and now paint after laying the track.
What do you use to scrape the top of the track after painting?
If you catch it when it is still a bit soft you can use a scrap of cork roadbed. If you wait till it starts to harden then try a rubber eraser and after that a brite boy. I have even heard of folks having to resort to the tip of a flat end screwdriver but not s good idea.
Larry , question, will this paint come off during the ballasting process , alcohol is part of the mix for ballasting
It never has come off of mine. The alcohol is only on it a very short time and most is down in the ballast, then it usually evaporates within a few hours. Just let the paint harden before doing any ballasting. Heck mine may sit days or weeks before I get around to ballasting it.
Thanks Larry, I am building my first layout, really enjoy all your tips and your channel
Will there be a video on ballasting track?
I did a series on that over a year ago, but I also,will be doing it on the modules.
@@TheDCCGuy i'd love you see ballast the track in this video. I love the paintjob on it.
Wouldn’t it be wiser to start in the middle and work out to the edge?? I know what I would look like trying to reach over something freshly painted
I was pondering if you could take individual pieces of track, tacking them to a board then take the whole thing outdoors and spray the pieces prior to gluing them to the layout, this might be doable even if it is cold outside.
See my answer to another comment on doing it this way.
As for starting at the front, sometimes filming pushes you to do things out of sequence. I had not planned on doing the middle track but finished the front one quicker so went on with it. In a yard I definitely would start at the rear and work out. In this case it wasn’t a problem though.
HI Larry, what about poor guys like me that don't have an air brush , a demo painting by hand and a brush would be welcome ( if you find the time some days ) thanks anyway.
Like I said in the video, if you don’t have an airbrush then grab a spray can and head for the back yard. I can’t imagine doing this with a brush and those marker type pens sold for track painting don’t work worth a snot.
Thanks for your answer have a good XMAS@@TheDCCGuy
Why not paint all your track BEFORE you install it? If you paint all of it ahead of time you don't need to mask anything off. Why not use a little planning? The other advantage is you can paint all sides very easily and do it and an environment you can easily vent, or better yet outside.
I addressed the potential issues with pre-painting track in a prior comments, you might want to go back and read through them. I have done it in advance and find it creates more work in the long run.
I'm not sure why you're painting your track after it has been laid. It is much easier to paint prior to putting it on the layout.
You might want to read previous comments on this as we discussed it then.
Big no no. Especially when laying flex track, the flexibility of the track will likely become compromised because now theres paint blocking the tie plates and spikes.
@@AbelG8781 Not a big deal with MicroEngineering track because it holds it shape anyway. I've done it several years and have had no issues so far.
@@FlyingCrow oh ok. I'm normally against doing it that way because the acrylic would immediately rub off while flexing. As long as it works out though!