What If The Soviets Won The Cold War?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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#possiblehistory #coldwar #soviets #ussr #alternatehistory #alternatehistoryofeurope
Link to the full scenario: docs.google.co...
What if, in an alternate timeline, the Soviets were the ones that came out on top during the Cold War. Now, this is obviously a highly unrealistic prospect. For that to happen not only would the many issues within the Soviet Union be fixed, but the issues in the West would also need to be worsened massively. So this scenario about the Cold War starts, strangely enough, all the way back in 1917. From here Comrade Serov, the writer of the scenario, takes us through 100 years of alternate world history, from the Russian civil war to the post-US collapse world order.
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@Marshal Marrs better idea what if a mega sunami hit china's Yangtze River Valley during the beginning of agriculture.
What if Bukharin took control of the USSR instead of Stalin?
Star wars program was a disaster. It was a fantasy dream that technology of the time can't reach. Regan was a mediocre politician, he don't make the URSS fall, the URSS fall by it self because of economic and political stagnation during the Brezhnev era. In fact Regan star the deindustrialization with the industry export to China.
Always bro 👍🏼
Hi PH
Would it be possible for you to explore a 'What if' regarding the Allies in North Africa after evicting the Africa Corp then invading Europe through Greece instead of Sicily then Italy in early 1943?
Basically the outcome on the Eastern Front if all the Allied Forces that went into Italy and Vichy France in OTH went through Greece instead.
Would it allow the Allies to invade Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Yugoslavia before the Red Army if they did this in the same timescale as in OTH?
And would it help if all the forces/supplies via convoys went straight to North Africa then Greece instead of the UK to help this front instead and thus avoiding D-Day?
Regards
In many ways, this alternative Soviet Union is a lot more like the United States of America. A winner of the Cold War who had a difficult time maintaining it's hegemonic status from all kinds of issues
Yeah it's never easy being on top.
@@Killertiller01 especially against rising new powers
@@user-Erimej they probably would do better that the current US against Russia and China
In other words, regardless of ideology as long as there's a lust to be the most powerful conflict will always follow.
@@jonathanjuarez5544 and with great power comes great responsibility
The amount of detail put into it is beyond impressive
facts
Yeah
Indeed
Q
That was kinda the point of this video.
A Pro-Soviet take from someone that lived in the USSR leading up to WWII is even more captivating. Read Anna Louise Strong’s “The Soviets Expected It”. She experienced a much different USSR than we understand in the US. She actually worked with Stalin and has another perspective.
That book is very good I do recommend it aswell.
Captivating as in how delusional it is ?
@@me67galaxylife Could you elaborate?
@@Derf1OO do i really need to elaborate on how a pro soviet take is bad ? even more so coming from one that worked with stalin ? really ? EDIT : i did elaborate for you lobotomized tankies that somehow need it right below in my other comments. stop pretending not to see it.
@@me67galaxylife great argument dude XD
I think this is a really good scenario, but there is one major problem. Abolishing the SSRs would actually massively increase instability and probably cause multiple secessionist wars. Part of what made the soviet union so appealing to many of the people's of the country was that it ended the russian chauvinistic policies of the russian empire. Kazakhs had their own Kazakhstan, rather than just a few extra oblasts of Russia. Of course, how much the ussr actually adhered to this brotherhood of nationalities varied in practice depending on the time, but the fact is this system was key in winning over the non russian population.
I was going to point that out. Imagine if Yugoslavia declared itself to be the "Croatian Republic", there'd likely be some tension. Although that comparison may have been a bit unfair, considering the differences in population.
I thought PH was going to lead to the creation of practically autonomous or actually free regions in Central Asia, the Caucus, and the Baltics, + Ukraine.
Although this is a great scenario and good food for thought otherwise!
It's also weird that Stalin would do this, because Stalin was influential in making the USSR the... well, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. His treatise called "Marxism and the National Question" was very influential in Bolshevik thought. He was given the profile of the People's Commissar for Nationalities for this reason.
I agree. The best option would be to keep the republics in name, but remove much of their powers to, as pointed out in the video, reduce infighting and corruption.
@@cheetosjumboenjoyer6833 It is said in the original uncut version of the scenario that's in a link. Stalin's "autonomisation plan" is implement that the other Soviet republics would remain as autonomous units but Lenin was against this obviously as he saw it as inviting back Great Russian chauvinism and I doubt after the USSR was just made in the span of a few years that they would really want to do this, regardless of if Stalin got into power earlier. But to be honest, I still like a centralized state would've been better in certain respects.
You don't need republics with constitutional sovereignty and right to exit your state to stop minorities from rebelling.
So, basically, "What if everything went in favor of the Soviets"
"What if the Soviets rolled 20 every single time"
@@concept5631 yes😂
Kinda, things happen because they have a reason to happen
And in determined world, history just doesn't become alternative
@@50Steaks68 who is devs?
What flaws?
I doubt the US would keep pressing decolonization in a world where they're on par with the Soviets, knowing each independent state could easily fall under Soviet influence(as many did in our timeline) and swing the balance the wrong way.
There was little chance for this in our timeline due to the dilapidated state of the Soviet economy(and a non-existent Chinese): the US could easily outbid any offer the Soviets made or use brute force if necessary and the half broken empires of Europe would pose no real threat to the USA. It would be far mor important to keep them allied and use their colonies as bases of operation, than force them to give up their colonies.
Based
@@fifty784 difference between a cup of coffee and your opinion is I asked for coffee
@@dechlancarr5775 bruh was I talking to you?
The soviets had no problem until Gorbachev messed up
@@dechlancarr5775 Oh, fuck off. People aren't allowed to be correct anymore?
Although they tend to be quite extreme and somewhat implausible scenarios compared to a lot of other alt history channels, your videos are really enjoyable! Keep it up!
This is actually reaserched and detailed scenario instead of most of alt hist yourubers going "muh, evil USSR bad, no way they win"
Tbh this is probably a very realistic take
@@saccorhytus kinda
@@saccorhytus it is more of a reality projection, which shows lack of deeper knowledge
@@againsttheriver3657the guy said that this was like, a third of what was in the original document. There probably was deeper understanding but the video would have been too long if he included everything
What I really love about this scenario is just how many things have to go right for the Soviets for them to win the cold war
Yeah, I felt like he was making a lot of heavyhanded changes, many of which would probably have happened anyway because of a butterfly effect.
Well, as an author of the scenario, I will say
A single change over the period of internal and external struggle of superpowers of 40 years wouldn't be enough, even with the wildest possible chain reaction, would not be enough to radically change the geopolitical course. A single change wouldn't be enough to make the superpower which experienced nothing but prosperity for 100 years collapse.
The US outclasses the USSR to such a great extent that the Soviets outright winning the Cold War like the US did is almost impossible.
@@concept5631 no, that's not it, it's because the only real way to change geopolitics its drastically is to change a lot of things and not only one
@@ivanserov1846 Eyyyyyyyyy :D
This guy's FBI agent looking at his history.
How does the soviet union works
How to make communism work
How to start a successful communist revolution in Iran
How to start a successful Communist revolution in several African nations
How to dissolve the US and turn half of it Communist
How to spread communism in South America
How to elect a Communist into France and the UK
How to dissolve nato
You do know that someone else made this scenario right?
@@noobymooby-ty8ghhe said this guys
Not necessarily PH
This is basically "What if Stalin was actually good?" Lol
True
Thing is, he was good
@@dontforgettonerfthepig3322 ...
@@dontforgettonerfthepig3322 30 IQ take
He was autoritarian in the name of progress, it is harder to differenciate where the good part ends and the bad part starts. Maybe if he could live longer, he could get his redemption, hard times in the early Soviet Union gave no much option but terror as power.
But at least we could have a kind of democracy we don't know today, as time passes and some descontent with the regime would be born in autoritarian states.
I don't think it could be much worse than US interventions.
The scenario is pretty good, but the idea of turning the entire USSR into RSFSR is a bit dumb. Stalin barely had to deal with national movements and taking away the (perceived, as there was barely any) autonomy would heavily hit the image of the USSR that he was trying to build. Moreover, the national republics inside of the USSR gave the country more representatives on the international stage, while still being controlled from Moscow.
Respect for mentioning OGAS though
Fully understand where you are coming from, but Stalin did actually plan to do this in our own timeline during Lenin's time, but he lost the internal struggle for centralization/decentralization. Stalin in 1924 going back on this debate would indeed be seen as a shock for the internal power dynamics in the newly established USSR, but if our timeline's Stalin came to power earlier this would actually have happened. Adding to this the national republics were only useful on the world stage starting with the UN post-WW2, so wouldn't impact his Stalin's decision making in the 1920s.
@@possiblehistory stalin was a leninist and lenin believed in national self determination thus gave republics or autonomy to every minorty, stalin continued that, he wasn't even russian why would he want to unite every country under one republic
@@AYANAMlREl Stalin was a "russian" in a way, in russian its translate in a 2 ways. Stalin was all about centralisation and "imperial glory", he was stricktly oppose any separatism in USSR, but in our timeline cannot abolish core movements. So yeah, PH idea in this video was very historical.
@@Chikanuk okay now prove all of this shit that you made up. stalin was a leninist thus making him a believer of self determination and didn't abolish the republics that are created by lenin even though he could easily do that according to your perception of stalin's power.
@@AYANAMlREl I guess he could create a new ethnicity/republic. Probably just make everyone a Soviet rather than a Russian
Thank you so much for posting weekly I am loving your videos! ❤
I’m not typically a big fan of “great man” history but I’m curious on your take of a scenario if J. Edgar Hoover were to die or be taken down in the 30s. The guy was crucial for the anti worker and anti civil rights efforts of the FBI.
Be interesting to see the American labor movement staying strong post 1970s
He also may have had a hand in Kennedy being shot
He also took down Fascist cells and spies, KKK cells, armed militias, The Black Panthers, Black Supremacist/Separatists, Communist spies, Communist Party sympathizers, fought the Weather Underground, etc.
Not a savory figure by any means, but I would definitely argue one that was necessary when it came to most of the people he was going after or simply monitoring.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 going after civil rights leaders, like telling MLK to kill himself, as well as the FBI likely the main player in the death of Fred Hampton, MLK, Malcom X and probably JFK was only possible under Hoovers fbi.
The black panthers were peaceful btw. Not to mention this is supposed to be a free country, why did we purge communist and socialist from society? They were loyal to the republic during WW2
@@robertortiz-wilson1588The black Panthers and the communists were great though? Those WERE the civil rights and workers movements.
@@longfineel2630 the Black Panthers in the communist were scum of the Earth. Both thought the idealized goal was the USA getting overthrown or subverted into some sort of socialist state. I can support plenty of other civil rights groups and worker organizations (though definitely not always individual members) that don’t involve thuggish black panther separatist gangs and communists.
Truly a glorious achievement of the Potential Proletariat.
Cool scenario. One question, how many people did ussr lost in ww2?
@@themrfredgold1891 OTL: 14 million civilians and around 12 million soldiers
Pax Sovietica: 4 million civilians and around 5 million soldiers
@@themrfredgold1891 But q huge part of the losses came in Poland, whose population, especially a large portion of the jews were exterminated
@@ivanserov1846 can you make the continuation of pax sovietica if you wanted, i read all the 92 pages for 8 Times because Its addicting maybe a continuation? From economic politics the situation in us an more. But if you wanted
@@themrfredgold1891 USSR in WW2 was incompetent in the start of the war, most of the soldiers died as POWs. USSR didn’t know how to fight at summer. And who took berlin?
Not super realistic (there's no way removing Trotsky would prevent the infighting following Lenin's death) but this is a really fun and imaginative scenario.
Well, I didn't said that the infighting are completely prevented, but they are instead much less intense.
The collapse of america seems ridiculous to me
By the fact with no Trotsky Stalin cannot get in power.
even then, trotsky was extremely influential due to his many victories in the russian civil war, which granted him high status within the soviet government. Stalin was batshit crazy, nothing would change that. Due to stalin being coocoo for coco puffs, he would still purge a lot of the red army, as essentially anyone who even talked to trotsky was put on trial. And ofc changing who and who doesn’t get assassinated is stepping into the realm of fantasy. But still super interesting scenario, got me thinking abt how my life would be like in this world.
@@poopman4263 History L.
Generally you can say, that Trotsky was influential, until Stalin rose to power and took majority of the votes in the party, and started anti-trotskist campaign.
Instead of calling it the ''Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic'' It should be called ''Socialist Republic of Eurasia'' That would've been a better name.
Yes but it would be a much more unrealistic name
Yeah. And Stalin was Georgian. Why would he want to make it all about Russia.
Literally 1984
One part of this scenario that is unrealistic is the failed assassination of Kennedy. The problems caused by the Vietnam War were caused in a very large part by LBJ's ineffective policies, such as large scale involvement and conscription. If Kennedy lived, he would most likely have had 2 terms and his reforms of the US military would continue. Crucially, they would not draft large numbers for the war and would likely continue their much more successful policies and may even win. In addition, Kennedy was a VERY charismatic man, and would likely motivate America to push forwards in the space race, potentially allowing the US to win (though not necessarily). The prevention of his assassination would be a very large boon for the US, especially if they do not commit large numbers of troops and money to Vietnam. JFK after finishing his terms would likely continue to be a major voice in US politics, likely being a somewhat divisive but altogether stabilizing force in US politics for decades. I think that Kennedy has to be assassinated in this scenario, because in my opinion he is a key figure in history and preventing his assassination strengthens the United States.
the cia killed jfk
iirc this scenario has Goldwater winning in '64 and Goldwater absolutely would have done everything LBJ did
Only “one part” is unrealistic? If the Soviet Union won the civil war in that strong of a position, WWII would have been All of Europe vs the USSR with France and Britain not bothering to guarantee Poland just to support Germany against the USSR so Germany can contain the much more imminent communist threat doing the fighting for the West. The reason why the Western powers focused on Germany as a greater threat than the USSR in our timeline is due to how devastating the Civil War was for the USSR and not being able to win against Poland or fully annex Finland. Germany had the ability to threaten Britain and France but the USSR didn't yet, in this timeline they absolutely do.
@@endurovro True, actually, I hadn't thought of that.
Kennedy actually supported the idea of a joint American-Soviet space program I believe
"To make the Soviets win, give Stalin more power and make the union explicitly Russian and not a union anymore"
I feel like this isn't very realistic, but cool video anyway
Yea,the best way to make the Soviet Union win the cold war is giving Trotsky the power
@@quantisticman8415Trotsky was the idiot that let Germany take soo much land in ww1.
The soviet union would not only be weaker under him, but would make stupid decisions
@@americanmapping832 That was just one decision, and the USSR didnt have any other option
@@FerdarPleaseSubscribe that one decision cemented him as an idiot who couldn't be allowed to lead.
And yes there was another option. Do literally anything but what he did.
Preferably, agree to the peace terms.
@@americanmapping832 It was just one bad decision amongst countless genius decisions, after all he led the Bolsheviks to victory in the civil war
What if Rudolf, crown prince of Austria -Hungary didn't commit suicide ?
What if Catherine the Great had intervene on the side of the British during the American revolution ?
What if Mary I had given birth to A son ?
What if Edward V had lived ?
I like the Russia helping England 🏴 in the us revolution
Honestly I think Catherine The Great siding with The 13 colonies Is more realistic. Catherine The Great did NOT like the British and even illegally sent the 13 colonies trade goods during the blockade of Boston. Catherine The Great also increased trade with America over Britian and made It clear to America they favored them over the British. The POD (Point Of Divergence) for this scenario would probably be either Catherine The Great just really wants to get revenge on the British, Russia joins Amerixa when France and Spain join, or Britain goes to war with Russia because they defied Britain.
@@benjaminbethell8912 so you don't want Americans to have freedom?
@@alexthedemon2203 so you support British separatists?
LOL
no USA = no problems
It would have happened if the tsars were actually smart
Joe Biden would be kinda sad idk
😢
It’s Joever im bidone 😢😭😔
Kinda the opposite.
@POSSIBLE HISTORY.
What if america went full manifest destiny.
Purchase of Greenland.
Purchase and state hood of English carribean and English Belize and English Guyana.
Purchase of western Canada.
Annexation of northern Canada.
The dream....
Pax Americana
@MrAsianPie no the dream is Greenland to Panama. Plus, the islands in Mediterranean and South China sea
Edit not Annexation of northern canada
Not Canada Typo meant mexico.
@@JTL1776 What could the US possibly want with Mediterranean/Southeast Asian islands?
Loving the longer videos as of late :)
I was thinking of a scenario a while ago where no war no peace didn’t occur. So cool to see it in an actual video
One of the best written Alternate Histories I've ever seen. Good job, Serov.
Brilliant video bro, Ive been binging your videos recently (although have forgotten to comment on all), but keep up the great work! Cant wait for us to collab like we planned!
Amazing scenario and content! I’m a writer and I’ve been wanting to branch into alt history for a while and watching your videos I increasing want to do this. Great work as always.
its kinda shocking how good of a industrialist Stalin was
Very refreshing to hear an alt history RUclipsr be actually knowledgeable about Stalin, especially his later plans for the ussr.
What would you recommend to read to know about stalin?
@@remington2216 I would recommend to find information about how he wanted to relocate supply routes and build forest-lines to prevent drought and famines. Stalin wasn't really a fan of making people suffer from hunger, he was likely to not care about farmers and peasants until the end of the war.
@@remington2216"Another View of Stalin" by Ludo Martens and "History and Critique of a Black Legend" by Domenico Losurdo would be good books on Stalin
The USSR's victory in World War II alone surpasses all the victories of all countries in history combined. It was unprecedented in scale and unprecedented in the benefits gained. It’s interesting if this is considered on a par with the Russian-Georgian conflict, which lasted 6 days.
Not for eastern europe
Except that by any metric the USSR planned economy was able to rebuild everything pretty fast. The problem never was the USSR economy but rather the fact that the US wasn't destroyed during ww2 like the USSR was.
Yes
While not getting bombed did help USA massively, the problem with USSR was that after the rebuilding their planned economy stagnated for decades. It's easy to plan the rebuilding of something that already existed, while it's pretty damn hard to plan wide scale innovation to prevent your economy from stagnating.
@@IamaCosmonautthe ussr did manage to do that in the first wave of industrialization and they would have been able to do it continuously if it had not been for the absolute disaster that was the eastern front
@@IamaCosmonaut the biggest hit for USSR economic - Chruschev
Love your videos. The alternative history is so well developed and thought out.
The creation of the Russian Federation would have solved a lot of future headaches for the leaders and unite the different peoples without the need to relocate families. Bigger population, bigger workforce.
Having no purge might change the dynamics of the Red Army. It would be a large, well led juggernaut. The German attack might be bogged down faster than in our current lifetime, the army being led by competent and capable soldiers.
Before the purges, it was said that the red army was the largest and one of the most advanced armies in the world due to its experiences in the civil war and reconquests. The german attack would have definitely been bogged down early one. One thing people should realize is how different the cold war would have been if 1. Stalin didn't do the purges and 2. If stalin was more proactive in stopping the german invasion (in our timeline stalin refused to believe the germans would invade at the time.) If those two options the soviets would have experienced a less destructive world war 2 and would have had not have a huge hit to their homeland cities and demographics. That was the main issue during the cold war where the USSR didn't properly invest to rebuild after WW2 and instead spent more on the cold war, while the US only had pearl harbor.
@@pasindupereraSL Wait, you're saying that killing all of your generals because you had a bad dream ISNT a good idea? Man I gotta rethink life after this
@@casualjoe1264 I know right? Who would have guessed.
Only that it's questionable whether Germany had invaded in 1941 under these circumstances. One major reason why Hitler rushed that invasion instead of using these resources against Great Britain and trying to end the war in the West first was the embarassment and self-humiliation Russia inflicted on themselves in the Winter War.
If they had looked halfway competent there things might have gone very very different...
@@christianmeyer3622 True, if those circumstances were there though, it would only mean that the longer germany waits, the more of a threat the soviets would be. Prior to ww2, the soviet population was increasing. I believe it was just about to go into the range of 200 million. The soviets with a combination of a fully developed industry/ economy and a massive population to utilize the endless natural resources would have been unstoppable.
Thats why for me personally, I see Russia as potentially the bigger threat to the US hegemony (Of course anything can happen as politics is unpredictable). Because russia has the unlimited resources, if it focused more at home to build its industry and economy like Stalin did, and boost its population, it would be a bigger threat. The thing with China is that, while it has money and people, it doesn't have those vast resources. Especially with the situation of the change in our climates, it will be interesting to see how Russia and China come out of this.
Konstantin Semin part made me laugh real good
Why would there be a war in Afghanistan? The reason for the war in our timeline was opposition by the Soviet revisionists to the "hardline" anti-revisionist Afghani government. Specifically the hardline "Khalqist" faction had overthrown the Soviet aligned "Parcham" faction. But in this timeline, where the revisionist forces headed by Khrushchev never take control of the USSR, the Khalqists would naturally align themselves with the USSR in the first place, leading to no war.
I didn't know this, where can I find out more?
stalin breathes...
MASSIVELY SUCESSFUL
This the best scenario ever, i wish there was a hoi4 mod about this cause gooodamm Serov possible history you guys out did yourselves.👍
Look up red world fan fork. Roughly the same scenario as the end of the video is established in that mod.
Hoi 4 iron curtain has left the chat
This is so detailed man, maybe someone should make this scenario a HOI4 mod
it already is, "the red world"
I love how it's all serious and invested and then I hear "funny mustache man happens"
This is one of The Best what if Cold wat scenario i have ever seen Comrade Seraph did a great job Bravo👏
Ok. This video single-handely convinced me to subscribe to this channel
I think the UK would be with the commonwealth and build it up stronger after having a rift due to the falkland islands with America, and acting as its own neutral faction.
The sues crisis already proved by then that the UK could no longer function without American financial assistance. With the shared culture as cushioning, there is little the Uk could do to move away from American control in this scenario
reagan gets assassinated: the good ending
@Possible History
I feel like the fact that there was no territoriale compensation for the east in poland or no agreement between poland and the soviets about the eastern border (which also failed irl), because protests in poland and its independence was one of the main reasons for the fall of the eastern block. I feel like in an alt timeline where the soviets didnt lose that hard against poland the tensions between the states would have been way less. So I could imagine a less paranoid stalin could come to some agreements.
Idk this would kinda fit to the theme of the soviets not making the mistakes they made. What are your thoughts on this.
Perfect, one word - PERFECT
When I saw Konstantin Semin as the leader of the USSR, I had a good laugh.
I really enjoyed the video.
Basically "How to make Whatifalthist dies of cringe"
That's a bad thing??
@@jolt9484 no its a good thing infact
@@raitoyagamiv1 100% Facts and true.
@@jolt9484 Glad we're all in agreement
What a fantastic scenario! So well thought out and justified.
Those Soviet had extreme plot armor💀
@@libertarian_manthe same can be said for america if you put your logic into OTL.
I think that person (creator of the scenario, not the video itself) also forgot that after annexing Finland soviets now have more frontlines (additional frontline in Finland-Norway border) but, probably, Germany thought that terrible climate and supply issues won't let the soviets to advance to Norway and take really important port of Narvik. Unluckily for germans, the Soviets are attacking and advancing really well, capturing Narvik and disrupting their iron trade with Sweden, what causes a lot of problems for them. After soviets captures all of Norway, Germany must use all of their fleet to support naval superiority on Northern and Baltic seas, if they don't want for soviets landing in Schleswig-Holstein or Denmark.
Also Soviets can Try to invade Hokkaido after capturing Karafuto and Kuril islands. As United States are still trying to capture islands like Iwo Jima or Okinawa, soviets are advancing into Japan, probably taking Hokkaido from them and turning them to the puppet after the war aswell.
I dont see how the US just collapses, the US has a far more stable political system than the soviet union ever did, in fact they have one of the most stable political systems in the world with a 250 year continuous run of presidents and governemnt from its inception, something few other major powers can say aside from Britain itself.
they also didnt have to deal with any major wars or conflict on their soil, or mass famine, genocide, starvation or any of that sort.
Put it simply, there was less to be discontent about, and there was no reason to overthrow the government when you can just elect a new one.
Plus they also werent a repressive, totalitarian regime that relied military force to keep people in line.
"I dont see how the US just collapses, the US has a far more stable political system than the soviet union ever did"
This is true, the video should've focused more on revolutionary movements in the US and what events could've turned things more in their favour.
"with a 250 year continuous run of presidents and governemnt from its inception"
Not how I'd describe it, considering that there was a civil war midway through that.
"they also didnt have to deal with any major wars or conflict on their soil, or mass famine, genocide, starvation or any of that sort."
Take out the "genocide" bit and this is true.
"there was no reason to overthrow the government when you can just elect a new one."
That's not how capitalist politics works. Although, the fact so much of the working class believed this probably played a big role.
"Plus they also werent a repressive, totalitarian regime that relied military force to keep people in line."
I wish they weren't.
Feels like in a strategy games where even when different leaders get elected they still do the same things
It's was funny to watch, but you are simply using U.S format to reflect it on CCCP. At the end i can't see Soviets caring much about the multipolarism in the same way the U.S hegemom does, since internationalism is pretty much one of the basics communism ideology. In a way it's not about win aganist other nations but aganist the ideology of imperialism.
This sounds very plausible. Just a few things going right for the Soviets could’ve changed everything
I think it would be cool if we saw a what if about Winston Churchill growing up in America
I feel like the Soviet Union taking Alaska is too much. But other than that, it's a great scenario.
@@yanniskarageorgiou6947Wow i really wanted to know thatin this video about the cold war and the USSR
Independent Alaska because it's big enough to be its own country.
This was excellent. Also, a novel set in this world would be interesting. Keep up the great work and Peace. ✌🏻
Maybe it could take place during the 2nd American civil war from the perspective of a Soviet soldier that is helping the west coast communists
Man, this ai geopolitic creepy pasta be trippin me out 😂 but the line about the KGB becoming an anti-corruption institution had me in stitches
ai?
@user-yx1wp2bl8d Considering how ridiculous and unrealistic the events in this scenario are, it might aswell be written by AI.
I really like this scenario.
It does sell how the US might lose well.
Especially the Mexico intervention and following guerilla war there that does nothing but bleed America of money.
Sort of like Afghanistan for the Soviets.
It's still a little far-fetched, but no side is acting like to big idiots.
I really like this scenario, mad respect!
So Canada is basically just Belarus in this timeline
This is just “what if everything went wrong for the US, and everything went right for the soviets”
It seems all the pictures in Serov's document are missing.
This was a really cool scenario! I can really tell the creator put a lot of thought into making it believable but engaging
I'd speaking Russian instead of English as a second language right now.
One of the most detailed alternate history video's I've ever seen. Big thanks to Comrade Serov and Possible History
A realistic and ideal scenario looking at a bright future for the people!
Switzerland and Sweden: Sorry guys we fell asleep what did we miss?
Slight correction. The Republicans were largely in support of civil rights bills leading up to the the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Kennedy actually represented a change internally within the Democrat party on the issue of civil rights. What Kennedy's assassination did was force the national Democrat party to rally in relative unity on several issues, including then civil rights.
I don't see how the successes of the Soviets would have prevented Kennedy's assassination, but even if it did it wouldn't have changed much regarding civil rights and racial tensions. The broad public support Kennedy is _seen_ as having is actually a result of the assassination. At the time of his re-election wasn't guaranteed. It is entirely possible that without his assassination he loses re-election, and that without passing a civil rights bill the Democrats lose one or two national elections. But the national Dems would fairly quickly change their position on civil rights as the opinions of Americans were changing on the issue. As LBJ saw it, it was simply electorally untenable to be in support or even just neutral towards segregation just to keep some Southern Democrat politicians happy.
In order for there be significant tensions around the change of Kennedy's assassination: Kennedy would have to lose re-election > the Dems take that as meaning a pro-civil rights stance is not worth it > National Dems double down on ambiguity on civil rights > Dems lose several elections > poor Southern Democrat workers feel alienated from their national party and from the wider country > dissident Southern Dems are funded by the Soviets and link up with other dissident worker movements in Northern cities.
But that's just trying to make Kennedy not being assassinated significant in the way you want it to be.
This scenario genuinely scared me… which means you did a good job
Good to know that the red scare propaganda worked on you, I suppose.
I have to wonder if Japan would really be left untouched by the USSR in this scenario lol
This was great
Hehehaha
Alternate Title: What if stalin was less concerned about political opponents
Easy, then USSR falls after a coup and becomes revisionist way earlier with a socdem type of politics or even a full restoration of capitalism which would be 90s but 60 years earlier
Y'know this channel is pretty underrated, I love your content man!
I'll be honest, this scenario is pretty bad in my opinion. I realize that things would have to be stretched pretty far to give the USSR a real chance at winning the Cold War (at least to the degree this scenario apparently considers winning) but some of the things that are suppose to help the Soviets in this timeline would have in fact hurt them. A great example is this scenario's killing off of Reagan. Reagan was a very charismatic leader but he was also a bad one. His leadership saw large debt problems in the short term as well as setting a long term negative trend for the US economically. Most obvious long term issue is him basically creating the second gilded age we are in. Killing him off early, even if he is simply replaced with Bush, should help strengthen the US economy and thus strengthen its long term position. This doesn't even get into the fact that Bush was one of if not the most geopolitically knowledgeable and competent leaders ever in the US which would have made for an additional challenge for the USSR to deal with. Staying on the Reagan example for one last thing, simply having a Soviet style Star Wars program is ridiculous and its even more ridiculous to think that it would impact the US in the same way as the Soviets even in this scenario.
Just so I'm not only using an example pertaining directly to the US to demonstrate the point, lets talk about education. More education is good but what this scenario calls for is essentially turning the USSR into a technocracy and there is no reason to think it would have worked well. Strict scientific adherence by leaders tends to pollute said science based on political ideology and convenience. Not to mention, no matter how much you invest in education, you will still end up with an extremely limited pool of Technocrats who are "qualified" for the very top leadership positions. This very limited leadership will almost certainly begin making decision that benefit their group at the general expense of the nation and most of its people as most limited governments like that would. Nations run by religious minorities are a great example (even more so considering science would most likely functionally become a religion in this scenario). Its possible this still would mean better leadership for the USSR than in reality since that is pretty low bar but it almost certainly would not give them excellent leadership or even the very good leadership and management they would need to pull off some of the other development plans in this scenario.
This scenario has a lot of details but the details are just not that well thought out and often have impacts on the Cold War power competition that are the opposite of what one could reasonably expect them to actually have. Hell, some of the things in this scenario would guarantee others don't happen (best example is that this scenario still assumes the US loses a lot of industry to other nations but just China remaining in the Soviet block would prevent most of that, not to mention less of Europe to look after and generally less globalization because globalization was essentially a giant bribe by the US to everyone that sided against the Soviets and that said bribe generally hurt the US economy). Again, I realize this sort of scenario (which includes the US collapsing more than the USSR did, this scenario would be like if Russia broke up completely as well) calls for things falling ridiculously in the Soviet's favor but I feel like there are ways to make the Soviet's "win" without making the entire scenario completely ludicrous, especially given the start point. I feel its possible even starting at the end of ww2 as long as you don't define winning as the complete collapse of the other side as there is literally no reasonable scenario that sees the US collapsing and the collapse like this. For an example of a reasonable scenario, starting the market reforms and general democratization much earlier (perhaps even so early as to do it with a less paranoid Stalin or with Stalin dying sooner and having a reasonable replacement) and taking it slowly could in many cases be enough to ensure the USSR survives to the present day and even be in a fairly strong economic position in still optimistic but reasonable scenarios. More democratic participation (while still controlled by the Communists obviously) would give some outlet for the people and some amount of economic prosperity would also boost regime support making the crushing of what would be smaller outbreaks of discontent in the block (as they should choose to in this case) fairly manageable. The USSR would likely be weaker than the US individually but could survive and as it moderates there would likely be cracks in the US alliances over the years as long as the USSR doesn't do anything alarming outside its borders and direct sphere of influence. While the alliances don't fully collapse for the most part (at least not for decades), it would open doors for the Soviets and guarantee a true bipolar world for a time, especially given that, while the oceans protect the US they also make power projection difficult without bases and full support from allies.
Bush geopolitically competent? Really?
The older one? Yes, absolutely (absolutely not if we are talking about the younger one). Still not saying I agree with everything he did or wanted to do but he had a lot of relevant experience and probably the best understanding of how the wider world work of any modern US President. A great example, though its of something he ultimately didn't have time to do, is that he wanted to have serious discussion about America's role in the world post Cold War. Iirc, he basically wanted the US to have truly humanitarian focus which sounds alright to me. He did lose to Clinton and Clinton and every President after didn't really care about thinking that much and mostly left the US "grand strategy" to be the world's hegemon and policeman on autopilot without any real consideration for what they US could manage in the long run. Again, I'll stress I'm not the biggest Bush fan but they guy was thoughtful and intelligent enough on geopolitics that to say he was anything but competent would take some amount of bias and/or ignorance of the topic.
Cool video, will defiantly read the full scenario!
This entire video is just me doing the walter White Fall every five seconds😭😭💀
I really got the impression that the writer of the scenario didn’t like Kruschev at all. Lol
Nobody loves kruschev
-Monetary reform of 1961 greatly devalued the ruble, destroyed any chances of integrated CMEA currency and made the everyday goods more expensive.
-Agricultural reform destroyed the Machine-Tractor stations and decreased the efficiency of agriculture
-Economic reform of 1957 greatly worsened the industrial cooperation
-Destruction of arteles and cooperatives hit the consumer market hard
-Destalinization resulted in Polish, Hungarian and later Chinese unrest
So yes, he was pretty damn bad.
I'm really enjoying these alternative scenarios
I'd love to write an analysis of the changes which may have occurred in Marxist political philosophy which would occur in this world relative to ours.
As author of scenario-I encourage this. Write.
First off…… yay, Bernie!!!!!!
lol. One minor criticism is that of Germany having any significant influence post ww2.
The only reason real world Germany has any power is the US needed them in a Cold War era. Debt and war reparations were forgiven.
In the videos timeline, Germany would’ve been significantly punished for decades following ww2.
The Soviets almost certainly wouldn’t have let Germans off the hook and probably would’ve turned the entire nation into a hellacious gulag.
What makes you think that apart from "soviets bad"?
This goes against Stalin's own writings and beliefs. It's basically a "what if Stalin wasn't Stalin and wasn't a Leninist?".
Khrushchev said Capitalist countries are now encircled by Socialist countries. This has been tut-tutted over by Socialists as another example of Khrushchev's optimism.
In the TimeLine we saw, when did Capitalist countries become encircled by Socialist countries?
this was difficult to follow. the alternate timeline i imagined had more to do with who became general secretary after stalin passed away. krushchev and gorbachev each put the ussr and the world socialist movement through vulnerable moments as the cia took advantage of that.
I guess this would be a more balanced cold war scenario, extending it for a much longer time. I think the intention of this alternate history was to invert the US/USSR competition to a point that the US falls appart at a similar time period that the USSR did in real history
Molotov suceeds stalin seems to be a good alternative.
The fact that denmark is red while greenland is blue, implies that greenland is now a part of canada
I feel like this scenario includes many misunderstandings and misinterpretations of Soviet history, specifically surrounding Stalin and his ideology. Still a interesting scenario though.
I agree with you
After watching the what if everything went perfect videos, this user suggestion is basically that but under a different name
Don’t threaten me with a good time
This is literally “The Death of Stalin” but with a happy ending.
Blessed timeline
@18:40 a timeline where Patrice Lumumba lives would be great news not only for the Congo but Africa & PanAfricanism in general.
This timeline is “What if Stalin hadn’t gone insane” and I absolutely love it. Especially since a lot less people die here.
Stalin wasn't insane in the real life either but sure
You timeline it's contradictory: since they stoped the war in germany with a better agreement it's possible that the WWI would end different for the Junkers and the old prussian republicans, this would remove the emergency that made a violent colectivization necessary, instead CCCP would make better agremments with the landlords avoiding the famine but probably just mitigating since it's was a natural ocurrence in all east europe of 1920'-30's. Also Lenin getting shot instead of dying of a stroke (aka work excess) seems arbitrary. Also CCCP didn't supported the Finnish Communists even in our timeline, Finland and every country under Russian Empire received Carte Blanche to leave the union, only Finland did.
26:38
"Several small states are in debt and some wealthier ones are considering succeeding."
I remember seeing a post on r/imaginarymaps about a US annexed Japan and thinking about a spin off senario where the US collapses in the near future due to the annexation of Japan based of that premise.
Hey i remember that map too!, I think I have the link somewhere
irl the collapse of the soviets was kinda equally split between american strength and soviet instability (55/45) but in this scenario it’s mainly the eagle’s instability prob (like 85% instability vs 15% soviet strenght boost)
You lost me at the USSR getting Mexico. The PRI was the perfect dictatorship for the entire duration of the cold war and with it being US's Southern border the PRI would get massive support in the name of stopping communism making the end of the system and a coup impossible. Explaining how the PRI fails during the cold war will be a video longer than this one. You could have argued that the USSR uses the PRI to make Mexico a non-aligned nation and that making the US do some dumb thing. But certainly there would be no communsit revolution in Mexico
Comrade PH slightly fucked the scenario in some places, Mexico was one of them.
The point of turbulence in Mexico, is the Mexican Financial Crisis of 94, which is made a bit worse in the scenario, alongside Soviet efforts og building a wider left coalition and finally-Soviet aid in the economic reconstruction all of which drove Mexico closer to RSFSR.
@@ivanserov1846 Gotcha
It's generally a "my favorite country wins everything" scenario
hi
Love your vids!
Проорался с генсека Сёмина, спасибо
лучше остаться в нынешней реальности, чем с генсеком трулём)
@@justnothin1283 естественно
Even though this is a cliche scenario this absolutely amazing
I am russian communist. The Constantin Syomin line just killed me💀💀💀
в СССР запретят игры?
@@dis99n64 Да
Я как автор под конец решил: А че нет, Костя умелые журналист, демагог, знает как работать с людьми, как манипулировать, если пойдёт в партийную политику, то успех ему будет.
the fact the entire video ignored indonesia with the largest communist party outside of china and russia kinda shows how this ignores most of the west pacific.. from Australia, Indonesia, and Japan