The teacher on this DIY video is excellent. One of the best I have ever heard. For he "cuts to the chase". He does not ramble, detour and repeat, etc; as so many other teachers do. I am pleased to say that I CAN learn easily from him. Sadly I cant when many others (even on Clear Path I might add) are teaching. Of course I am 85 an it is difficult when most teachers are at the helm. NOT so with this instructor. He is truly "gifted" from Him! I hope the "powers to be" see this. Really! For whatever it's worth. pat
Thanks for the feedback pat dee, we appreciate it. I'll be sure to pass this along to our engineer who created the video. If you have any specifics regarding what you did like about this particular video style or any specifics regarding what you think can be improved on other Teknic videos, please give us a call or fill out a contact request on our website. We enjoy getting feedback and strive to keep improving our videos and other information channels. Best regards, Bridgette G.
Loving the Clearpaths, I'm on my third and will be purchasing a couple more soon. I recently upgraded my Laser cutter rail system to something very similar to what you have on the video. The auto tuning completes fairly quickly, but I still find the results to be a bit conservative (even with the stiffest fine tuning setting), specially on the Kp and Kv values, my rutine is to do the auto tuning and then go higher on both Kv and Kp, usually 2X the value generated by the auto tuning. That reduces the maximun error I get on my rapids testing routine from low 20s errors counts to less than 5 error counts max, even when I do laser engraving at 4Gs acceleration the maximun overshot never crosses 5 counts, trully remarkable. I'll upload a video on my channel so that you can see soon.
I'm using these in a homebuilt CNC router. This was a great video at explaining the tuning app, and here are a couple other things I found: 1. At 6:50 in the video, the carriage is manually moved through its range. What confused me when I did it was that it didn't work. Turns out that the Direction button need to be held down for about a second before anything happens. I was tapping it to get the carriage to move "just a little", and it was non-responsive. My bad. 2. If the mechanism that the servo is coupled to is heavy or has a lot of friction, the servo may overheat during self-calibration. If it does, it'll pause to let the servo cool, but the takeaway is that a larger servo is be needed.
Hi Kurt, thank you for your comments. I'm sure other readers will appreciate the feedback. I have a couple of small clarifications that may be helpful: When one of the direction buttons is pressed during auto-tuning (commanding the motor to move), the torque starts to ramp up immediately, but because the servo is not yet tuned, this ramping happens slowly for safety reasons. With light axes, without a lot of friction, pressing a direction button will therefore generally cause motion immediately. But for heavier axes and/or those with significant friction, it may take a little time for the torque to ramp up enough to generate movement. I can see how this could be confusing, so I will submit an entry to Teknic’s feature request database to add an indicator (or something similar) to the user interface of a future software revision to clarify the behavior. My second minor clarification is that if the auto-tuner pauses during tuning to let the motor cool down, it may indicate that you need a higher torque motor, but in many cases, you will not. The auto-tuner is pretty aggressive to ensure the tuning is robust, but many applications are not nearly as aggressive and/or have low duty cycles. A good way to see if you really need a higher torque motor is to run the motor in its normal application (e.g., cutting an intricate part on your CNC machine that requires lots of accel/decel, with the acceleration and velocity limits set as high as you intend to use. Then, monitor the RMS torque meter in the ClearPath software and see how high the RMS torque gets. (RMS torque is a sort of weighted average torque.) If the maximum RMS torque stays below 70-80% in this worst-case usage, you probably have enough design margin with that size motor. See this section of another TekTips video for a little more information on the RMS torque meter: ruclips.net/video/oJSp_1aNiSE/видео.htmlsi=OWKT8XrMoo1nB3sR&t=523. Thanks again, Aaron B. - Teknic OEM Applications Engineer
My question is: At the 1:25 time mark in this video you said, "When you plug into a Clear Path motor..............", does this mean JUST the power cable. Or must we plug in both power and digital connectors? Thanks in advance for your answer to this question. pat
Hi pat dee, To emulate the setup you see at 1:25, the ClearPath motor must be plugged into its DC bus supply (24-75VDC) as well as be connected to the host PC (via USB) on which you are running the MSP software. You don't need to connect the controller cable to ClearPath unless you are ready to run your system from a separate digital I/O controller. You can use the MSP software to exercise ClearPath before you connect your I/O. Best regards, Bridgette G.
I would love to see a solution for tuning your motors when you have 2 motors driving a single axis, ie, a dual drive gantry. I am absolutely certain that this type of setup is very typical. I am currently using your product on a new project (step and direction) and prior to my purchase, I did inquired if this was possible and how to actually do this. When you have a machine that has similarly constructed axis, an educated "guess" based on mass, etc., can actually work. However, when two different drive methods are incorporated (one axis is screw driven, one axis is rack and pinion driven with 2 motors, which is extremely common), you can't use the method you describe on your website or other methods that have shown up on YT videos to get accurate tuning values. I am not saying that your auto tuning is not a God send, it really is, as long as you have one motor per axis. In my opinion, you would absolutely dominate this market with your SK and HP motors, if you could actually come up with a way to "auto" tune a dual motor axis. Even if I had to purchase a couple of extra long USB cables to plug in to a USB hub connected to my computer, being able to properly tune a dual motor axis would be incredible and innovative, and would put you guys on "the map" for shlubs like me that are itching badly for a solution to a "common" use problem, especially if this is what we do to make our bread and butter. If this idea is not feasible at this point, could you document a way to do this by actually constructing a build like I am describing, and making a video of how you would go about tuning this type of typical system, instead of every video showing one motor drive set ups... Again, you guys have the best thing going right now in my opinion. But also right now, 2 out of 3 axis on my machine are tuned. I can show you what I am doing on my setup and it is very clear that my gantry with dual drives is almost impossible to tune without a degree in motion control. I know I speak for more than just myself and any and all advise would be greatly received!!! Thanks again for a great product!!!!
Thanks for the feedback Moto Geek, sparky7071, Robert Murphy. Though we have been thinking about a dual motor auto-tuning procedure, tuning a dual motor axis using an auto-tuner creates many logistical challenges (too many to mention). However, we do understand the high level of value that this functionality would provide to the machine builder. Moto Geek, I understand that your mechanical design for the X and Y axes is different so the following procedure will not work for you. However, let us know if you need help tuning your dual motor axis and we can certainly help you. In the mean time, if your single motor, short cross-table axis (often called Y, sometimes called X) has the same mechanical design as your dual motor axis, you can use the following procedure: 1) X and Y axes often times have the same mechanical design to make the machine easier to build and to make the coordination of the axes easier 2) The vertical Z axis often has a different mechanical design than the X and Y 3) The optimal way to create a dual X file using the auto-tuner is to load 1/2 the total X gantry weight onto the single Y axis and then run the auto-tuner. You usually would not use the Z axis because it is biased downwards based on gravity (which the dual X axis is not) and because of the mechanical differences. 4) After auto-tuning the Y axis with the additional weight, load the Y file into both X motors. 5) Click the "Reverse Direction" checkbox for one of the X motors and save the two X motor files with different names (e.g. XA_SDSK-3421S_rev1 and XB_SDSK-3421S_rev1) 6) Run the X axis. If the X axis does not seem to have optimal tuning, trying moving the "Fine Tuning" slider (MSP, Setup, Fine Tuning) to see if your results get better. You will need to do this procedure with both X motors before evaluating the effectiveness of this step. If you make any changes, re-save the files (overwrite the old files or create new names) so you have the files saved in a safe location for the future. Teknic Tom
"Moto Geek, I understand that your mechanical design for the X and Y axes is different so the following procedure will not work for you. However, let us know if you need help tuning your dual motor axis and we can certainly help you." That would be great! I will get two laptops hooked up to my motors and give you guys a call. The machine is working, but when I do a jog, for example, as the motors turn and then come to a stop, I can see them basically overshooting and then moving slightly back to get to the commanded position. To describe it in words, they kind of like "boing" to a stop. I did try the slider for fine tuning, but not getting much better results. I feel like I'm a little too far away from optimal tuning for the slider to really help much. I will be in touch. Is there any better time of day that I could call you and go through whatever procedure?
Hi Niclas - ClearPath servos are often a great upgrade for CNC routers. I’d recommend looking into the ClearPath-SD (Step & Direction) series for contouring/path-following applications like a CNC machine: teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-sd-stepper-replacement/ In case you weren’t aware, Teknic has a 90-day refund policy for ClearPath servos so you can thoroughly and confidently evaluate them in your application. If you have any questions about what products are best for your application, please don’t hesitate to reach out via our contact request form (teknic.com/contact/), or by giving us a call at 585-784-7454. Best, Nick D. - Teknic Applications Engineer
Hi Ethan, There are a number of possible circumstances that may prevent the auto-tuner from completing the auto-tune process. I can’t mention all of the causes here but I can provide some clarity for the most common causes. Perhaps the most common reason that prevents the auto-tuner from completing the tuning process is due to vibrations/harmonics in the machine. These vibrations could be due to a poor coupling choice (like a helical coupling), a narrow belt used for a belt drive, or a cantilevered load. The auto-tuner uses a square wave stimulus for tuning to not only analyze these vibrations, but to also adjust the tuning parameters in an effort to prevent excitation of these vibrations. If the vibrations are excessive, the auto-tuner may not be able to create a set of servo gains that are considered to be robust in nature. The second most common reason for problems during the auto-tuning process is due to a high “inertia mismatch ratio”. The inertia mismatch ratio is the ratio of the load’s inertia reflected through the mechanics compared to the inertia of the spinning rotor in the motor. The accepted standard in the industry is to keep this inertia mismatch ratio at 10:1 or less (load: rotor) for the most robust design. That said, it is possible to have a much higher inertia mismatch ratio than 10:1 if the rate of acceleration is appropriate. We are happy to review your choice of mechanics and motor selection in an effort to determine the root cause of the auto-tune problem. Please give us a call at 585-784-7454 or send us an email at support@teknic.com and a Teknic engineer will contact you for more information. Best regards, Celina A. Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
I think I'm pretty much sold on some Clearpath's for an upcoming project! Quick question though on the tuning.. Should the tuning be done with projected load on the axis? Example of what i mean.... If I was using them on the X and Y axis of say a milling machine, wouldn't you want the table to have the heaviest possible load on it during the tuning?
Hi Chris, Yes, you are correct - you'll want to run auto-tune with the heaviest typical load for the application. For example, if the load weight varies between 100 and 150 pounds, you'll want to run auto-tune with 150 pounds. Thanks for your interest in ClearPath and good luck on the project! -Aaron B., Teknic Servo Applications Engineer
Thanks for this video. I have two Clearpath motors running my Y axis, each driving a separate ball screw. Is there a way to tell the software this so that I'm not running each motor on its own?
Hi Michael, Thanks for the question. There is an application note for auto tuning a dual axis using the MSP software here: www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf Most dual axes can be successfully tuned using this process, however if you are unable to for any reason please call one of our application engineers. Brendan F - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
Somewhat Off topic question here but I've been considering using some clear path motors for direct drive applications on outdoor robotics (think 30 kg almost meter long robot). Do you think this sort of motor is suitable for this application? (Thinking the schp series) also how would you go about tuning something that will be driving over all sorts of surfaces (obviously even a couple degree accuracy in this application is non vital, just the ease of use and high power nature of the motors is the attractive point)
Hi Matthew, We appreciate your interest in ClearPath. Determining if ClearPath is a good fit, and which size/model to use, is dependent on your application's torque and speed requirements. It's difficult to answer "yes" or "no" to your question without knowing certain details about your mechanics and multiple other factors regarding your application goals. Once you know your torque and speed requirements, you can use the torque speed curves on Teknic's website to determine if there is a good ClearPath model to fit your application needs. Regarding your question about tuning: you should use the autotuner to tune your robot, regardless of the different terrain it will be running on. Sized properly, the motor will use peak torque to overcome any rocks or bumps in the terrain, and autotune will account for this. If you have any technical questions about how to use ClearPath, please feel free to send an email to support@teknic.com or give Teknic a call. -Bridgette G.
Hi Rob, To be sure that I'm answering your question correctly, I thought it'd be helpful to paraphrase. I _believe_ that you are asking if the ClearPath motors need to/are able to dynamically adjust their tuning parameters based on a changing inertial load. For some background, this type of inertial change isn’t problematic for ClearPath when the motor is properly sized. The auto-tuner sets servo gains that are capable of handling changes in load inertia without needing to map the system. If you are tuning a motor for an application where the inertial load changes during travel, Teknic recommends running the auto-tuner with your worst case loading/inertia. If you tune a motor so it can handle the worst case load, it will have no problems handling the easier, lighter load. So, to answer your question, can auto-tune set dynamic tuning gains? No. Does it need to? No. If you have any additional questions about the auto-tuner or tuning your specific system, you can reach us at support@teknic.com. Best, Bridgette G. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
Hi Ike, Yes, you can tune your dual-driven Y-axis, although doing so requires a slightly different process than what is shown in this video. You can access a guide for tuning your dual-axis system here: teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf If you have any specific questions about tuning your mechanics feel free to give us a call or contact us through our website: teknic.com/contact/ Thanks, -Jon K. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
@@ikecobey6268, Selecting the right ClearPath motor for your application comes down to two major elements: _Motor Sizing_ - Understanding the motor characteristics required to handle the physics of the application (e.g. torque, reflected load inertia, velocity, acceleration, desired resolution, etc.). _Control Architecture_ - Selecting the optimal ClearPath series for your application based on the motion requirements and the preferred approach for the control signals. - To help you decide which ClearPath operational mode you prefer, please watch the videos on each of the modes to see what makes the most sense for your application: teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/#which-series Once you understand those two elements, you can select the appropriate motor for your specific application here: teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/all-clearpath-models/ If you any specific questions about this process, please free to give us a call or contact us through our website: teknic.com/contact/ Thanks, - Jon K.
Hi Derek, You're right in that dual axis gantries require a different tuning technique. You can download a helpful guide for tuning a dual axis system: www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf If you have any specific questions about tuning your mechanics feel free to give us a call or email support@teknic.com for additional information. Thanks, -Brendan F. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
Hey Teknic - if I was to run 2 instances of the tuning program on my pc at the same time, and triggered them within a micro-second, would they stay in sync or would they go out of phase as the motors learned? /Dual gantry/
Hi Observer, thank you for your question. The auto-tuner uses a sequence of different stimuli to make the motors move. For each move, it analyzes the feedback from the encoder and makes adjustments to the servo gains (as well as some other parameters). When the auto-tuner achieves a suitable resultant for a particular section, it then moves to the next sequence of moves. Moving through this process is based on encoder feedback and analysis, not on time. There are no time constraints on the amount of time that it takes for each section of sequences. So it is likely that even if you started the auto-tuner for each motor precisely at the same time, the motors would become asynchronous at some point because the feedback from each motor would not be identical. Not only would this cause improper tuning parameters to be set, but it could also damage your mechanics. Using this method is not recommended. For more help or information, please feel free to contact Teknic at support@teknic.com. Best regards, Tom T
Everything Moto Geek said! The Stepper Killer motors are awesome and being able to auto tune these makes them even better. I have dual motor setup also but both my x and y axis are R&P so I used the method shown here... ruclips.net/video/IDTW4QY33vQ/видео.html Works for me, but still really guessing that my gantry is truly tuned perfectly. I like the idea of plugging in both motors via usb into the computer and let the auto tune software tune both motors at the same time. That would be magical. Is this even possible?
Hi SegoMan I'm sorry that we didn't get back to you in a timely manner. We respect our customers' time, and we try very hard to respond to all questions and comments as quickly as possible, whether they come to us through email (support@teknic.com), phone (585-784-7454), social media, or web contact request. If you would please give us a call at 585-784-7454 we'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thanks for reaching out, Jim W. Teknic Servo Applications Engineer
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Yeshua ישוע (Jesus) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the YHVH יהוה (LORD) shall be saved.” Romans 10:1-13
Joel, thanks for watching and commenting! We worked hard to make Auto tuning a ClearPath motor as easy as possible. By reading through a few prompts and defining the length of stroke, anyone can tune one of these motors. And, even though a timid child could probably tune a ClearPath motor, we would definitely not recommend that either. ClearPath motors are powerful devices, that, used carelessly, have the potential to cause serious damage. ~Jim W.
The teacher on this DIY video is excellent. One of the best I have ever heard. For he "cuts to the chase". He does not ramble, detour and repeat, etc; as so many other teachers do.
I am pleased to say that I CAN learn easily from him. Sadly I cant when many others (even on Clear Path I might add) are teaching. Of course I am 85 an it is difficult when most teachers are at the helm. NOT so with this instructor. He is truly "gifted" from Him! I hope the "powers to be" see this. Really!
For whatever it's worth.
pat
Thanks for the feedback pat dee, we appreciate it. I'll be sure to pass this along to our engineer who created the video.
If you have any specifics regarding what you did like about this particular video style or any specifics regarding what you think can be improved on other Teknic videos, please give us a call or fill out a contact request on our website. We enjoy getting feedback and strive to keep improving our videos and other information channels.
Best regards,
Bridgette G.
Loving the Clearpaths, I'm on my third and will be purchasing a couple more soon. I recently upgraded my Laser cutter rail system to something very similar to what you have on the video. The auto tuning completes fairly quickly, but I still find the results to be a bit conservative (even with the stiffest fine tuning setting), specially on the Kp and Kv values, my rutine is to do the auto tuning and then go higher on both Kv and Kp, usually 2X the value generated by the auto tuning. That reduces the maximun error I get on my rapids testing routine from low 20s errors counts to less than 5 error counts max, even when I do laser engraving at 4Gs acceleration the maximun overshot never crosses 5 counts, trully remarkable. I'll upload a video on my channel so that you can see soon.
wow! that's beautiful !! this opens up, a helping smart system!! no more human config script's!! can't wait 2 see where this goes!! thank's!!
I'm using these in a homebuilt CNC router. This was a great video at explaining the tuning app, and here are a couple other things I found:
1. At 6:50 in the video, the carriage is manually moved through its range. What confused me when I did it was that it didn't work. Turns out that the Direction button need to be held down for about a second before anything happens. I was tapping it to get the carriage to move "just a little", and it was non-responsive. My bad.
2. If the mechanism that the servo is coupled to is heavy or has a lot of friction, the servo may overheat during self-calibration. If it does, it'll pause to let the servo cool, but the takeaway is that a larger servo is be needed.
Hi Kurt, thank you for your comments. I'm sure other readers will appreciate the feedback. I have a couple of small clarifications that may be helpful:
When one of the direction buttons is pressed during auto-tuning (commanding the motor to move), the torque starts to ramp up immediately, but because the servo is not yet tuned, this ramping happens slowly for safety reasons. With light axes, without a lot of friction, pressing a direction button will therefore generally cause motion immediately. But for heavier axes and/or those with significant friction, it may take a little time for the torque to ramp up enough to generate movement.
I can see how this could be confusing, so I will submit an entry to Teknic’s feature request database to add an indicator (or something similar) to the user interface of a future software revision to clarify the behavior.
My second minor clarification is that if the auto-tuner pauses during tuning to let the motor cool down, it may indicate that you need a higher torque motor, but in many cases, you will not. The auto-tuner is pretty aggressive to ensure the tuning is robust, but many applications are not nearly as aggressive and/or have low duty cycles.
A good way to see if you really need a higher torque motor is to run the motor in its normal application (e.g., cutting an intricate part on your CNC machine that requires lots of accel/decel, with the acceleration and velocity limits set as high as you intend to use. Then, monitor the RMS torque meter in the ClearPath software and see how high the RMS torque gets. (RMS torque is a sort of weighted average torque.) If the maximum RMS torque stays below 70-80% in this worst-case usage, you probably have enough design margin with that size motor.
See this section of another TekTips video for a little more information on the RMS torque meter: ruclips.net/video/oJSp_1aNiSE/видео.htmlsi=OWKT8XrMoo1nB3sR&t=523.
Thanks again,
Aaron B. - Teknic OEM Applications Engineer
I think it would be really cool to see
a recommended products page,
things like brackets, couplings,
gear boxes, timing belts.....etc
My question is:
At the 1:25 time mark in this video you said, "When you plug into a Clear Path motor..............", does this mean JUST the power cable. Or must we plug in both power and digital connectors?
Thanks in advance for your answer to this question.
pat
Hi pat dee,
To emulate the setup you see at 1:25, the ClearPath motor must be plugged into its DC bus supply (24-75VDC) as well as be connected to the host PC (via USB) on which you are running the MSP software. You don't need to connect the controller cable to ClearPath unless you are ready to run your system from a separate digital I/O controller. You can use the MSP software to exercise ClearPath before you connect your I/O.
Best regards,
Bridgette G.
I would love to see a solution for tuning your motors when you have 2 motors driving a single axis, ie, a dual drive gantry. I am absolutely certain that this type of setup is very typical. I am currently using your product on a new project (step and direction) and prior to my purchase, I did inquired if this was possible and how to actually do this. When you have a machine that has similarly constructed axis, an educated "guess" based on mass, etc., can actually work. However, when two different drive methods are incorporated (one axis is screw driven, one axis is rack and pinion driven with 2 motors, which is extremely common), you can't use the method you describe on your website or other methods that have shown up on YT videos to get accurate tuning values. I am not saying that your auto tuning is not a God send, it really is, as long as you have one motor per axis. In my opinion, you would absolutely dominate this market with your SK and HP motors, if you could actually come up with a way to "auto" tune a dual motor axis. Even if I had to purchase a couple of extra long USB cables to plug in to a USB hub connected to my computer, being able to properly tune a dual motor axis would be incredible and innovative, and would put you guys on "the map" for shlubs like me that are itching badly for a solution to a "common" use problem, especially if this is what we do to make our bread and butter.
If this idea is not feasible at this point, could you document a way to do this by actually constructing a build like I am describing, and making a video of how you would go about tuning this type of typical system, instead of every video showing one motor drive set ups... Again, you guys have the best thing going right now in my opinion. But also right now, 2 out of 3 axis on my machine are tuned. I can show you what I am doing on my setup and it is very clear that my gantry with dual drives is almost impossible to tune without a degree in motion control. I know I speak for more than just myself and any and all advise would be greatly received!!! Thanks again for a great product!!!!
I agree with Moto Geek, there needs to be a better way to tune a system with two motors on a single axis.
Thanks for the feedback Moto Geek, sparky7071, Robert Murphy.
Though we have been thinking about a dual motor auto-tuning procedure, tuning a dual motor axis using an auto-tuner creates many logistical challenges (too many to mention). However, we do understand the high level of value that this functionality would provide to the machine builder.
Moto Geek, I understand that your mechanical design for the X and Y axes is different so the following procedure will not work for you. However, let us know if you need help tuning your dual motor axis and we can certainly help you.
In the mean time, if your single motor, short cross-table axis (often called Y, sometimes called X) has the same mechanical design as your dual motor axis, you can use the following procedure:
1) X and Y axes often times have the same mechanical design to make the machine easier to build and to make the coordination of the axes easier
2) The vertical Z axis often has a different mechanical design than the X and Y
3) The optimal way to create a dual X file using the auto-tuner is to load 1/2 the total X gantry weight onto the single Y axis and then run the auto-tuner. You usually would not use the Z axis because it is biased downwards based on gravity (which the dual X axis is not) and because of the mechanical differences.
4) After auto-tuning the Y axis with the additional weight, load the Y file into both X motors.
5) Click the "Reverse Direction" checkbox for one of the X motors and save the two X motor files with different names (e.g. XA_SDSK-3421S_rev1 and XB_SDSK-3421S_rev1)
6) Run the X axis. If the X axis does not seem to have optimal tuning, trying moving the "Fine Tuning" slider (MSP, Setup, Fine Tuning) to see if your results get better. You will need to do this procedure with both X motors before evaluating the effectiveness of this step. If you make any changes, re-save the files (overwrite the old files or create new names) so you have the files saved in a safe location for the future.
Teknic Tom
"Moto Geek, I understand that your mechanical design for the X and Y axes is different so the following procedure will not work for you. However, let us know if you need help tuning your dual motor axis and we can certainly help you."
That would be great! I will get two laptops hooked up to my motors and give you guys a call. The machine is working, but when I do a jog, for example, as the motors turn and then come to a stop, I can see them basically overshooting and then moving slightly back to get to the commanded position. To describe it in words, they kind of like "boing" to a stop. I did try the slider for fine tuning, but not getting much better results. I feel like I'm a little too far away from optimal tuning for the slider to really help much. I will be in touch. Is there any better time of day that I could call you and go through whatever procedure?
Hmmm, I need to look into these servos in my upgrade of the small cnc router. It almost sounds too good to be true.
Hi Niclas - ClearPath servos are often a great upgrade for CNC routers. I’d recommend looking into the ClearPath-SD (Step & Direction) series for contouring/path-following applications like a CNC machine:
teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-sd-stepper-replacement/
In case you weren’t aware, Teknic has a 90-day refund policy for ClearPath servos so you can thoroughly and confidently evaluate them in your application.
If you have any questions about what products are best for your application, please don’t hesitate to reach out via our contact request form (teknic.com/contact/), or by giving us a call at 585-784-7454.
Best,
Nick D. - Teknic Applications Engineer
Hi, last week we did the auto tune , but it always stuck at 41%, could you give me some advice? Thank you.
Hi Ethan,
There are a number of possible circumstances that may prevent the auto-tuner from completing the auto-tune process. I can’t mention all of the causes here but I can provide some clarity for the most common causes.
Perhaps the most common reason that prevents the auto-tuner from completing the tuning process is due to vibrations/harmonics in the machine. These vibrations could be due to a poor coupling choice (like a helical coupling), a narrow belt used for a belt drive, or a cantilevered load. The auto-tuner uses a square wave stimulus for tuning to not only analyze these vibrations, but to also adjust the tuning parameters in an effort to prevent excitation of these vibrations. If the vibrations are excessive, the auto-tuner may not be able to create a set of servo gains that are considered to be robust in nature.
The second most common reason for problems during the auto-tuning process is due to a high “inertia mismatch ratio”. The inertia mismatch ratio is the ratio of the load’s inertia reflected through the mechanics compared to the inertia of the spinning rotor in the motor. The accepted standard in the industry is to keep this inertia mismatch ratio at 10:1 or less (load: rotor) for the most robust design. That said, it is possible to have a much higher inertia mismatch ratio than 10:1 if the rate of acceleration is appropriate.
We are happy to review your choice of mechanics and motor selection in an effort to determine the root cause of the auto-tune problem.
Please give us a call at 585-784-7454 or send us an email at support@teknic.com and a Teknic engineer will contact you for more information.
Best regards,
Celina A.
Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
I think I'm pretty much sold on some Clearpath's for an upcoming project! Quick question though on the tuning.. Should the tuning be done with projected load on the axis?
Example of what i mean.... If I was using them on the X and Y axis of say a milling machine, wouldn't you want the table to have the heaviest possible load on it during the tuning?
Hi Chris,
Yes, you are correct - you'll want to run auto-tune with the heaviest typical load for the application. For example, if the load weight varies between 100 and 150 pounds, you'll want to run auto-tune with 150 pounds.
Thanks for your interest in ClearPath and good luck on the project!
-Aaron B., Teknic Servo Applications Engineer
@@TeknicInc Aaron B. Thank you very much for your reply!! Hope to be ordering the motors I need in the next week or two.
Thanks for this video. I have two Clearpath motors running my Y axis, each driving a separate ball screw. Is there a way to tell the software this so that I'm not running each motor on its own?
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the question. There is an application note for auto tuning a dual axis using the MSP software here: www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf
Most dual axes can be successfully tuned using this process, however if you are unable to for any reason please call one of our application engineers.
Brendan F - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
Somewhat Off topic question here but I've been considering using some clear path motors for direct drive applications on outdoor robotics (think 30 kg almost meter long robot). Do you think this sort of motor is suitable for this application? (Thinking the schp series) also how would you go about tuning something that will be driving over all sorts of surfaces (obviously even a couple degree accuracy in this application is non vital, just the ease of use and high power nature of the motors is the attractive point)
Hi Matthew, We appreciate your interest in ClearPath. Determining if ClearPath is a good fit, and which size/model to use, is dependent on your application's torque and speed requirements. It's difficult to answer "yes" or "no" to your question without knowing certain details about your mechanics and multiple other factors regarding your application goals.
Once you know your torque and speed requirements, you can use the torque speed curves on Teknic's website to determine if there is a good ClearPath model to fit your application needs.
Regarding your question about tuning: you should use the autotuner to tune your robot, regardless of the different terrain it will be running on. Sized properly, the motor will use peak torque to overcome any rocks or bumps in the terrain, and autotune will account for this.
If you have any technical questions about how to use ClearPath, please feel free to send an email to support@teknic.com or give Teknic a call.
-Bridgette G.
Can auto tune map load characteristics, that are dependent on multiple servo motor positions? Like in a robotic arm in extension?
Hi Rob,
To be sure that I'm answering your question correctly, I thought it'd be helpful to paraphrase. I _believe_ that you are asking if the ClearPath motors need to/are able to dynamically adjust their tuning parameters based on a changing inertial load.
For some background, this type of inertial change isn’t problematic for ClearPath when the motor is properly sized. The auto-tuner sets servo gains that are capable of handling changes in load inertia without needing to map the system.
If you are tuning a motor for an application where the inertial load changes during travel, Teknic recommends running the auto-tuner with your worst case loading/inertia. If you tune a motor so it can handle the worst case load, it will have no problems handling the easier, lighter load.
So, to answer your question, can auto-tune set dynamic tuning gains? No. Does it need to? No.
If you have any additional questions about the auto-tuner or tuning your specific system, you can reach us at support@teknic.com.
Best,
Bridgette G. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
@@TeknicInc Thank for you response, we are on the same page :)
its possible to auto-tune 2 motor in one occasion because i have two motor on my Y axis . thank you
Hi Ike,
Yes, you can tune your dual-driven Y-axis, although doing so requires a slightly different process than what is shown in this video. You can access a guide for tuning your dual-axis system here: teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf
If you have any specific questions about tuning your mechanics feel free to give us a call or contact us through our website: teknic.com/contact/
Thanks,
-Jon K. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
@@TeknicInc thank you
@@TeknicInc what will recommend if i changed my Chinese 1.5kw servo for clearparth motor thank you
@@ikecobey6268,
Selecting the right ClearPath motor for your application comes down to two major elements:
_Motor Sizing_
- Understanding the motor characteristics required to handle the physics of the application (e.g. torque, reflected load inertia, velocity, acceleration, desired resolution, etc.).
_Control Architecture_
- Selecting the optimal ClearPath series for your application based on the motion requirements and the preferred approach for the control signals.
- To help you decide which ClearPath operational mode you prefer, please watch the videos on each of the modes to see what makes the most sense for your application: teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/#which-series
Once you understand those two elements, you can select the appropriate motor for your specific application here: teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/all-clearpath-models/
If you any specific questions about this process, please free to give us a call or contact us through our website: teknic.com/contact/
Thanks,
- Jon K.
How would you tune an axis that has dual motors?
Hi Derek,
You're right in that dual axis gantries require a different tuning technique. You can download a helpful guide for tuning a dual axis system:
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Tuning-Two-Motor-Axis.pdf
If you have any specific questions about tuning your mechanics feel free to give us a call or email support@teknic.com for additional information.
Thanks,
-Brendan F. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
Hey Teknic - if I was to run 2 instances of the tuning program on my pc at the same time, and triggered them within a micro-second, would they stay in sync or would they go out of phase as the motors learned? /Dual gantry/
Hi Observer, thank you for your question.
The auto-tuner uses a sequence of different stimuli to make the motors move. For each move, it analyzes the feedback from the encoder and makes adjustments to the servo gains (as well as some other parameters). When the auto-tuner achieves a suitable resultant for a particular section, it then moves to the next sequence of moves. Moving through this process is based on encoder feedback and analysis, not on time.
There are no time constraints on the amount of time that it takes for each section of sequences. So it is likely that even if you started the auto-tuner for each motor precisely at the same time, the motors would become asynchronous at some point because the feedback from each motor would not be identical. Not only would this cause improper tuning parameters to be set, but it could also damage your mechanics. Using this method is not recommended.
For more help or information, please feel free to contact Teknic at support@teknic.com.
Best regards,
Tom T
Everything Moto Geek said! The Stepper Killer motors are awesome and being able to auto tune these makes them even better. I have dual motor setup also but both my x and y axis are R&P so I used the method shown here...
ruclips.net/video/IDTW4QY33vQ/видео.html
Works for me, but still really guessing that my gantry is truly tuned perfectly. I like the idea of plugging in both motors via usb into the computer and let the auto tune software tune both motors at the same time. That would be magical. Is this even possible?
Teknic Inc why the hell don't you answer online information requests??????
Hi SegoMan
I'm sorry that we didn't get back to you in a timely manner. We respect our customers' time, and we try very hard to respond to all questions and comments as quickly as possible, whether they come to us through email (support@teknic.com), phone (585-784-7454), social media, or web contact request. If you would please give us a call at 585-784-7454 we'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thanks for reaching out,
Jim W.
Teknic Servo Applications Engineer
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Yeshua ישוע (Jesus) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the YHVH יהוה (LORD) shall be saved.” Romans 10:1-13
If you read it well, even a timid girl could set this up. *But still not recomended though!*
Joel, thanks for watching and commenting! We worked hard to make Auto tuning a ClearPath motor as easy as possible. By reading through a few prompts and defining the length of stroke, anyone can tune one of these motors.
And, even though a timid child could probably tune a ClearPath motor, we would definitely not recommend that either. ClearPath motors are powerful devices, that, used carelessly, have the potential to cause serious damage.
~Jim W.