Related videos► Sanding: -Sanding like a pro ruclips.net/video/qDYPGgjQmF4/видео.html -Sanding between coats of finish ruclips.net/video/Q0lEM_BOgmo/видео.html -Cork sanding blocks ruclips.net/video/EyBpO0S-SoI/видео.html -Choosing the right sandpaper ruclips.net/video/0srywz2SwQo/видео.html -Random orbital sander tips- ruclips.net/video/Gt0pdxoSMPU/видео.html Scraping: -Sharpening card scrapers ruclips.net/video/MmNr0aj89t0/видео.html -Using card scrapers ruclips.net/video/MmNr0aj89t0/видео.html Planing: -Two planes you should have ruclips.net/video/GXnU0uwWwsE/видео.html -Cambered plane irons ruclips.net/video/j7yL8ud03hk/видео.html Check out Sjobergs workbenches and help support us► Sjobergs: affinitytool.com/brands/sjobergs Subscribe (free) to Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal e-Magazine► www.stumpynubs.com/ Follow us on social media► Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs
Figured wood = sander. Straight grain = hand plane. Great video as always, Stumpy! Clear, coherent, concise, and none of that unnecessary blabber that plagues so many content makers.
Something else that beginners do that takes away from finalizing a project: They sand all parts including non-show faces. No need to sand or plane non-show faces. Saves a huge amount of time and effort. Having a helical head (If you're lucky enough to have one) on my planer allows me to start and stop sanding at 220 grit if I choose to sand at all. Some woods turn obviously milky or unclear when you sand them. When I use for cypress for example and want to show the wood grain, I only hand plane. Sanding even up to high grits turns the surface a milky white, while planing leaves the surface sharp looking and clear. Excellent review James.
One more consideration. Most of us are not professional woodworkers, which one is more fun and gives more satisfaction? I personally am still building my skills, but I get significant more satisfaction when I use my hand planes, and scraper…. When I manage to do it right. Thanks, love your videos. Always very informative.
I used to plane and then scrape when I was a young man and poor. No power tools back then or money for sandpaper. I'm an old man now. Got me an orbital sander.
It also comes down to time. I work a 50+ hour a week job. When I need to make something out of wood, it's rarely just because I want to spend hours in the shop. I need to get from raw materials to the end product as quickly and efficiently as possible. Bring out the planer and sander. Now if I was just making heirloom furniture for pleasure, then I might scrape and plane by hand.
Holy Moley. Absolutely without a doubt THE best unbiased, accurate explanation of these three methods I've ever seen. A lot of information in a 10 minute video. Kudos to you, James.
You perfectly summarized my experience trying all three methods as a novice these past couple of years. Personally, I prefer planing or scraping, because I hate the dust. But if I just want to quickly get the job done hassle-free, I'll sand so that I don't have to worry about sharpening blades or making technical errors.
I bought a dining table from some guy on Marketplace. He said it was in "good" condition. I think he and I have very different ideas on "good". Anyway the table top has some very deep (probably electric) plane marks and I decided this week-end was the time to address it. I went out and bought a random orbital sander. Stupidly, I got a battery powered sander (to use the existing batteries I already have). I get about 30 minutes out of the battery and then it takes some hours to recharge. So progress has been slow. I came in search of more efficient ways to remove the material to get back to a raw, level top. The thing that worries me with scraper/plane is that the surface has knots. I don't want to get into a position where I hit a knot and do more damage. I just need to stick with sanding I guess and deal with the consequences of my terrible decisions on cordless vs corded. Cheers for the great video. Would love to start building up my hand tools again so I can do jobs like this without having to make trips to the store.
A quite superb video, in which you cover all the most important areas. I make guitars. A soon as you start on a piece that has eccentric grain, you can basically forget the plane - even with a very fine set, the risks are too great. If you get tearout there isn't enough depth left in the piece to allow you to fix it (if you can), and you have a very expensive piece of firewood. Scrapers and sanding run neck and neck. There is a MUCH bigger learning curve associated with scrapers - with ROS you just don't tilt, don't lean, pay attention to the direction/pattern and speed you move the sander, and you're done. For brevity, I won't micromanage the elements involved in using a scraper but there are a lot and they all take plenty of practice. Contrariwise, a scraper wins because it is less toxic since it produces nice big shavings, not nasty tiny dust (so protecting our lungs). Of course, if you have a RELIABLE dust extraction facility in your shop (expensive) or you are happy wearing a high quality mask for considerable spells of time, sanding always wins over scrapers if you include the learning curve, which you should unless you are young and know you are going to be a lifelong woodworker. If you can't invest in a high quality extractor and you aren't comfortable in a mask (which, incidentally, should be a positive pressure respirator, not a simple dust mask, especially if you have a beard), then scrapers win if you can master the process.
Thanks for the tips. I’m a intermediate Wood worker with all necessary tools with the exception of a couple I plan on getting when I can. I’ve got a 3hp Jet table saw, a Bosch miter saw, a Powermatic 8 inch jointer, a Jet drill press, a Powermatic 44in drum sander, a Dewalt planer, and my router table from Sommerfield tools for which I built the cabinet for. I also have a cheap bandsaw that I want to replace. Why did I tell you that? Just for the heck of it. Lol. Seriously though, I bought those tools because I love woodworking. I love the art of making something of my own creation/design. I have learned some things from your video presentations on different subjects and they have helped me become a better woodworker. Keep sharing with us your knowledge. It’s much appreciated from this 62 yr old man.
I totally agree 👍. I'm a one man shop building projects for $. The 1st. thing i have to have is the finished wood surface has to pop out at the home/ business owner. They don't care what I use or how my wore out hands feel. I sometimes use all three plus a few more to get the final results my people want to see . Great videos. Thanks and keep 'em coming
Sanding is the most forgiving smoothing method. It also takes less skill than the the other two alternatives-in both use and maintenance. So…. Another excellent Stumpy Nubs video!
Like you, I think that all three methods have their place. I find it very satisfying to create that smooth, sheen, finish on a piece of cooperative material with a well tuned hand plane. Thanks for covering this topic.
The cabinet shops I worked in these last few years sanding direction makes a lot of difference. Especially with stain. Also orbital sander vibrations can be very painful if done for long periods of time
I dislike the dust, the humm in the hands and the noise. Sander gives me a very uncomfortable, edgy feel in the whole body. I just bought a little plane from Veritas, will be playing around with that.
Great video, instructions and introduction to all 3 methods. For the plane gets the nasty stuff / bulk of the roughness out of the way and finish off sanding with fine sandpaper. I’m a novice still planing is one of the most pleasant things once it’s working 😂
Great summary. I was fooled into believing planing is the only way to go. And that sanding is for the uneducated masses. Then I got so much tear out that once I got the grain figured out and the wood to an acceptable finish the piece was half the size. I agree if the wood behaves well and your plane is set up correctly nothing beats the speed and finish a hand plane can produce. If you have difficult grain or face where planing of the end will result in breakout, like the four outer faces of a dovetailed box. Sanding can save you a lot of headache.
When my grandfather passed (he was a cabinet maker of 36 years with Standard Oil) I inherited his tool cabinet. I found this funny 3x5 card made from spring steel and had no idea what it was until attending a wood show and being introduced to the "hand scraper". Woah - new world. Easy to keep a curl on the edge with a little practice and THE BEST tool for fixing drips and errors in finish - awesome control. Gramps knew a little something . Random orbit sanding with good dust control is great, but for physical satisfaction, the plane is hard to beat. Thanks again for comparing. Perhaps you encourage those who haven't tried another method to give it a shot.
Even though I'm still learning how to set up my plane efficiently, in my experience, finish planing gives a smoother AND more lustrous finish. Good stuff, Jim. Thanks.
Very true, with a really sharp plane on a very fine setting with cooperating grain, the finish can almost look like glass. Very satisfying when the stars align.
Well, James, You are right in Your ratings. But only in case of flat boards. I often work with round and bombe shapes, where only scrapers of various contours may be used. Grinders with soft abrasive balls are used only for small curves. Therefore, there is not much choise left except scrapers. Indeed, this process is slow. But rounded shapes carperntry is more material and time consuming work. And quite challenging as well. Also, there are cabinet scrapers for flat boards. Nice tools👍. Easy to use and very forgiving. I am planning to obtain one and recommend others to do so, although they are not cheap. Alternatively, there is a scràping insert into a standard plane made by Veritas allowing to convert temporarily any hand plane into a cabinet scraper.
I've said it before and I'll say it again : Stumpy you are an incredibly gifted teacher; I can always count on you for sound, rational teaching that effectively clarifies the fundamentals of any woodworking issue I'm trying to understand. I envy greatly how you've found your niche and how you offer so much to so many people from that niche. Of course you were talking about surface preparation here. In my very limited experience I do prefer hand planing solid wood; even a wanna-be like me can put an incredible surface on a piece of solid wood with a sharpened and tuned Number 4; but I've recently made some investment in sanding gear and a built cabinet for it, for the times I build with plywood, for workpieces that are purely functional, and for sanding the finishes I apply to workpieces. It seems to me that it's all a matter of specifics; sometimes sanding is the right approach, sometimes planing. I have not yet learned to scrape. Thanks so much for the thought you put into your content. We live in blessed times to have people like you and formats like this to teach us.
Thanks again! I just started using a beautiful handmade wooden plane made by an old friend. Cleaning up a cherry table top showed me much about grain direction but it is SOOOO smooth now. I think there will be much more hand planing gong on in my shop.
First, great overview! Sat on the edge of my seat the whole time. One thing I think that needs to be included is consummables. Plane blade rarely needs replaced. Scaper also rarely needs replaced. Sharpening tools rarely need replaced. Shopvac filters, face mask filters, sanding disks, sander batteries and electric to run the sander and shop vac are reoccurring costs. Not to mention replacement of the sander itself, though not frequent I doubt anyone will be using a 100 year plus RO sander in the future. Learning for hand planing is much higher but I think it’s worth it. No worries if your opinion is different, do what works for you
Great breakdown of the options and reasoning. One key point that is often overlooked, and was here, is the main reason for sanding vs the other options. Planing and scraping burnish the surface. This burnishing closes off the grain. If you are staining, this burnished surface can be problematic and create light and dark areas where the stain doesn't penetrate into the wood properly. Sanding, on the other hand, leaves consistent scratches in the surface of the material, which, if the correct grit is used, allows for proper stain penetration and a more even color. It is also ideal for any sealer that may be used in preparation for the topcoat. In my opinion, even if you plane or scrape, you should always finish with sandpaper to create that even surface scratch that is ideal for the final stain and topcoat.
Thank you so much for this extremely helpful and clear explanation. These three factors we can now have in our mind to weigh them to come to a decision. Now THAT is great instruction!
Used to finish everything with sandpaper because it is so easy, just takes time. I just finished a table and had a little tearout to remove, so I tried my scraper. I'm a convert. The surface is just so sweet now, and the tearout went away, and it just worked so well. I have a very simple jig I made for the scraper and I have a 400 grit diamond plate that makes removing the old burr and all the flattening steps easy as pie. Mmmmm, piiiiie. Sorry, where was I? Right. Scraper. I did a lot of work on that table with the scraper and I think my future projects will include a lot more scraping and a lot less sanding. And more pie.
A fourth consideration: Cost. You buy a hand plane or a scraper once. Sandpaper is consumable. Then it goes down the rabbit hole of needing a sharpening system for the planes, or a burnisher for the scraper, so it's up to the individual person on weighing the cost of higher initial investment with planes, or cost over time with sandpaper. In the end it seems like all three have their place, and are often best used in conjunction with each other for different scenarios.
Re: scraping. I have one of those curved scrapers from Crucible tools. It has been an eye opener. It does make scraping a much easier process. I have put more gentle curves than Crucible's on a couple of my scrapers and I find, for me, that is the sweet spot.
Well done Stumpy! There is nothing in woodworking that is easy, do to all the variables in getting a job done. It's an art and science, a good craftsman understands as well as patience. Everything is easy when the stars are aligned, but an experienced craftsman knows how to remedy an issue to success with knowledge and patience till the end! Great discussion, another factors not discussed was cost. Since wood is not perfect you will need all three methods and hardware to beat the devil in wood! And that is were cost may be a factor. Style of wood working is another. Rustic, carpenter, cabinet or funiture makers have different degree of tools and methods. So many factors in bringing a good woodworker!
Thank you for a good holistic overview of these three paths to finishing, it really helped clear up a bit of confusion for me. Stay cool over there and have a good one.
Funny this topic came up, I spent time this afternoon thicknessing some pine for a small cabinet in Mike Pekovich's book. After I finished thicknessing I grabbed my smoothing plane and started cleaning up the surfaces. I will admit...I could NEVER get a surface that glass smooth that quickly with sanding. Yes its less convenient and predictable than sanding, but using a good sharp smoother on reasonably predictable wood (pine, cherry, walnut) is a joy. Oak and ash require regular sharpening but aren't that much harder. Maple? Yeah sand that. Great video as always!
Completely agree about wood grain… I’m working on a project now with several Douglas fir boards… my finishing method is determined by the grain of each board. Some are straight with few knots. I can finish them quickly with a hand plane. Some have big knots with difficult grain. Those are getting sanded.
I'd say all three myself. Personally I use planes unless the wood looks dangerous, then a scraper. Sandpaper for *really* crazy grain changes, marquetry, and expensive veneer woods where if it tears out even a little I'm screwed. The big thing for me is I enjoy finishing wood with planes and scrapers, but sandpaper turns it into a chore. It removes the risk of failure, but also all the fun, so it's saved for when it's needed.
Good job, good video. Thanks for the summary. I was recently doing lots of sanding to fix the tear out I inflicted on my tabletop. I'm a newby and enjoyed the shavings of the recently purchased and sharpening effort of my hand plane, until the thrashing i was doing on my slabs. Live and learn, and research on youtube. Thanks, please continue the video's.
Great breakdown and explanation, James. Mostly agree with you but as I get older, I'm starting to notice I reach more for the plane for the finish pass. No mask, no earplugs, no dust and you get those pretty cool shavings. Thanks for this one.
I became a scraping guy for a reason you didn't discuss. Sanding (as you know) makes thousands of tiny scratches. Even if you don't stain wood, the character of the grain is dimmed by the light reflecting off all those scratches. If you stain, the problem is more obvious. So it's not about ease or convenience, it's about the look. That said, I'd love to hear you tell more about technique. Sometimes the scraped surface has very smooth, beautiful grain, but with streaks that take stain differently (and ruin the appearance). Re-sharpening doesn't help, and I can't tell whether the problem is angle, force, uneven sharpening, or just the nature of the beast. How about a video on scraping?
Also you have this great ability which im going to try to describe here. I think i would describe it as, you really know how to pick out what is and isn’t important and describe it in a concise way while covering all the relevant info.
I remember my dad had a big tick glass to do da!! it brought back memories being in his shop! And sound of the hand saw handplane the smell of home made wood glue …
Very good discussion. Would add that I have and use Stanley scraper planes,senior moment ,think number 112. Really prefer on contrary grain. Seems to be best of both worlds
Good info. Nice video as always. In my opinion, in straight-grained wood, a smoothing plane provides the best overall finish because it cuts the grain versus sanding. Sanding basically smashes the grain. Think exploded cigar. It shows in the finish. The difference is obvious. Figured wood is altogether another issue with a plane whereas tearout is an issue no matter how sharp the plane is. A scraper or sander works best on figured wood. That's been my experience in over 40 years of woodworking.
Now that's an exceptional and detailed explanation of the methods of dressing and preparing wooden surfaces and compatibility of grain and wood fibers response to the tools being used I personally use all and experience will tell you when to change thank you for sharing this information god bless
Very good comparison. Of course many of us use plywood quite a bit and sanding is probably going to be my choice for that. I do enjoy using both planes and scrapers whenever I can, however. Thank you for educating me!
Very good video. I like having a few scrapers around, especially for milled edges, but barely use one. Planes are satisfying, but often not too convenient. A sander just works. The bigger question becomes how to handle the dust.
Oh yes. Scraping is a powerful method, but oh so much hard work. I find it the most precise way to strip old film finish from e.g. a table top that only has a thin layer of nice oak. For a noob it is quite a workout, and sharpening card scrapers is another skill to learn. I currently sharpen two card scrapers each time, there is then at least one edge that works as intended. No, I have not used them enough to have developed that skill, there was no need, the wood was mostly well behaved enough for hand planing.
On most of my projects, I'm going to use all of the methods. Planes for the flats, scrapers for the curves and knots, then sander for post sealer/primer, stain/paint layers and finally hand sanding for the final finish. For beginners I'd say start with a sander since there is less to learn.
Another excellent video. I’d only add scraping and planing doesn’t raise the grain as much as sanding, but that really relates to the speed of using each. Thanks!
The round robin at near the end reminds me of the monologue by the Sicilian in Princess Bride when selecting which goblet to drink from. LOLOLOL Regardless this, as always is filled with great information. As always make an informed choice for each project based on several factors and go to it.
As someone new to woodworking this gave me a practically useable framing of the question. I’m now prepared to make a decision based on objective information. Thanks, that was helpful 👍
For years i didnt have a plane, orbital sander or a scraper. It was just lots of time spent going throught the grits and sticks to get into the hard to reach places. Then i got a 2nd hand orbital sander.. loved it and then a plane. I was never very good with a plane. I torn grain out and destroyed project. Im still trying with an old stanley no 5!
As always James, well done. I have tried scraping and using a hand plane and I just have not mastered these tools enough to feel comfortable using them on a project. I agree with your points but as a novice I will stick to sanding with the various grits.
@@tungsten_carbide Thanks for the quick response. Since you are knowledgeable on the scraper topic, let me get your opinion. I bought a Bahco scraper and watched numerous RUclips videos on how to sharpen one. I could never get the 'hook' necessary to create shavings, I always just got sawdust. I even took it to my local woodworking store and the 'sharpening expert' did not have any better success. Is there another brand that is easier to work with or am I just destined to using the orbital sander? Thank you for your thoughts.
@@tungsten_carbide Thank you so much for taking the time with this detailed response! I will view the video by Galbert and give the scraper another try. Again, thanks for going above and beyond.
I have heard that the finish is different and in some cases that matters. For instance, the grit from the sandpaper dislodges at some rate and embeds itself in the sanded surface. If the surface is one that will move over another wood surface (like a wooden handplane), it may produce scratches. I have heard another thing also, similarly to the difference between sawing and cutting. Namely, that the cells around the pores of the wood get destroyed on the surface when sawing and sanding, unlike a clean cut from a knife, axe, plane or scraper. This can affect the lifetime of wood if exposed to weather or high humidity changes. This is seen on wooden roof shingles that were sawn vs hewn.
2 other major factors are. Quality of the sandpaper this can make it a breeze or a nightmare. The other is it you are refinishing scrapers are a must at least until you get most of the old finish off other wise you will go through lots of paper
Depending on the project, I may finish using any of the three methods. Scraping is great for smaller pieces, planing is great for those pieces that have tool marks and sanding which is generally what I go too just because it's more convenient works to get me where I need to be on most projects.
As someone who is physically handicapped. The only way to smooth a board is power sanding. I cannot use hand planes or most hand tools. My shop is all power tools, from screwdrivers to cutting devices.
I find that hand planing works ok for northern hemisphere woods like oak, walnut and cherry. But I mainly use redgum, ironbark, blackbutt and spotted gum. I've never had a good hand plane experience with them. They tend to be hard and "cranky". So sanding is pretty much the go to option.
The biggest consideration in my mind is the level of finish quality desired. Sanding is adequate for utilitarian projects in soft woods. For a fine finish on heirloom quality hardwoods it’s hard to beat a scraper because of the control you have. A well tuned plane gives a glass smooth finish if, as you say, the wood cooperates. My vote goes to a razor sharp cabinet scraper for that finishing touch on things that matter.
There is method behind hand planing and sharpening. This is also one of those "don't buy cheap or you will regret it" areas (kinda goes with most woodworking tools right?). A high quality 5 1/2 plane is a good choice and after tuning and sharpening is just a real joy to use. Pay attention to how much blade you expose. For difficult grain use a light cut and keep the plane mouth narrow to avoid the raising of the grain.
Good video. I tend to plane or scrape whenever I can. In general, I don't use polyurethane finishes and so with shellac, oil (even T&T varnish oil), or painted surface it is handplaning for the win. At this point, the only time I sand is if it is a small spot that needs a touch up or I am staining. Even then, I still plane first. So for example I am working on window stops that I will hit with a gel stain: plane first to get the surface cleaned up, then hit with desired grit by hand for the proper absorption of the stain. That way I don't have to spend forever working up in grits or getting dust everywhere.
Standard disclaimer: I am a complete amateur hobbyist, so my opinion is nothing compared to some of the professionals. That said, few years back I bought a 6" Bosch orbital sander for a reason that escapes me.. prior to that I had only used smaller 4" orbital and other power sanders generally found in big box stores. I made a walnut coffee table last year, and I ran into all the issues mentioned in the video. Trying to plane was almost a disaster, with tear outs in the middle of the table. Anyhow, reverted to my 6" sander, and started with #40 disc...I needed to take out atleast 1/16 material to get rid of all the tear outs. I was done in less than two hours started with #40 > #60 > #80 > #120 > #180 > #240 > #400 > #600 >#800... When I tried to apply the finish (urethane) ..I realized, the wood is too smooth because urethane didn't seem to apply correctly, it would pool at spots and some spots would be completely dry. Sanded it back to #240...and that worked out perfectly. Ever since then, I swear by my 6" sander to be final finishing. Interestingly my 6" seems to have slower motor speed than my smaller sanders but it takes less than half the amount of time to sand than the smaller ones. :)
For say a tabletop after a glue up I start with a plane because its so much faster (and more fun for me) than sanding to get it flat, then sand from there. I never was a scraper guy because to me they are more trouble than they are worth (burnishing the edge etc.). For parts such as table skirts that are simple cut outs - not glue ups - i just hit them with the random orbit sander through about 3 grits and I'm done. For any new woodworkers - plane/scrape/sand your parts BEFORE you assemble them. Trying to fix defects after you have made your glue up is much more difficult.
Great video as always. An orbital sander w/ good discs (Diablo are great) can take off a giant amount of material or a little bit depending on grit and technique. I find it WAY easier as a relatively newer handtool user who is still getting his skills (technique/sharpening) together. For instance, the scrapers are actually the hardest of the three. I save them for touch-ups and specific problematic areas, as well as glue removal. Glad to see your injury (not sure when it happened) is a memory, however traumatic! Keep on working, my friend.
For very fine scraping I often use glass. Any glasier ends up with boxes of scrap glass which you can have for the asking. Microscope slides aren't free but give you 8 sharp edges for detail work and are remarkably strong, plus you can see through glass & visualize your surface as you work A box of scrap glass often has the perfect shape you need for odd pieces of wood, like spindles for instance. Downside is one must be gentle of course. The glass may be free, but the Band-Aids aren't. Try it.
Excellent video, as always. However, this entire explanation assumes that the work is flat. I'd be interested in your opinions on angled, routed, and other nonflat surfaces. (A good excuse to show off your planes 😂)
I got a wonderful opportunity to watch a master violin luthier work in his shop for a few days. He was getting the body ready for finish and used a whole bunch of scrapers of different shapes, no sandpaper at all. Very slow and precise work but absolutely beautiful when finished, the wood looked a mile deep.
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-Sanding between coats of finish ruclips.net/video/Q0lEM_BOgmo/видео.html
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‘Two planes you should have’ links back to this same video :(
Sir, What about electric hand planers? Are the results similar to a normal hand planer?
Figured wood = sander. Straight grain = hand plane. Great video as always, Stumpy! Clear, coherent, concise, and none of that unnecessary blabber that plagues so many content makers.
Learning how and when to use each option is a good skill to have.
Something else that beginners do that takes away from finalizing a project: They sand all parts including non-show faces. No need to sand or plane non-show faces. Saves a huge amount of time and effort.
Having a helical head (If you're lucky enough to have one) on my planer allows me to start and stop sanding at 220 grit if I choose to sand at all.
Some woods turn obviously milky or unclear when you sand them. When I use for cypress for example and want to show the wood grain, I only hand plane. Sanding even up to high grits turns the surface a milky white, while planing leaves the surface sharp looking and clear.
Excellent review James.
One more consideration. Most of us are not professional woodworkers, which one is more fun and gives more satisfaction? I personally am still building my skills, but I get significant more satisfaction when I use my hand planes, and scraper…. When I manage to do it right.
Thanks, love your videos. Always very informative.
I used to plane and then scrape when I was a young man and poor. No power tools back then or money for sandpaper. I'm an old man now. Got me an orbital sander.
It also comes down to time. I work a 50+ hour a week job. When I need to make something out of wood, it's rarely just because I want to spend hours in the shop. I need to get from raw materials to the end product as quickly and efficiently as possible. Bring out the planer and sander. Now if I was just making heirloom furniture for pleasure, then I might scrape and plane by hand.
Random?
One word: arthritis
I kept saying "yup." and "🖥👈 this." the whole way through the video. great job conveying all that nuance
Holy Moley. Absolutely without a doubt THE best unbiased, accurate explanation of these three methods I've ever seen. A lot of information in a 10 minute video. Kudos to you, James.
He is successfully unbiased while standing in front the most planes I’ve ever seen in one place
At first it was leaning more on hand plane, but gives a fair assessment of limitations of hand planing.
‘Nailed’ it again James!! Gold ⭐️!
You perfectly summarized my experience trying all three methods as a novice these past couple of years. Personally, I prefer planing or scraping, because I hate the dust. But if I just want to quickly get the job done hassle-free, I'll sand so that I don't have to worry about sharpening blades or making technical errors.
I bought a dining table from some guy on Marketplace. He said it was in "good" condition. I think he and I have very different ideas on "good".
Anyway the table top has some very deep (probably electric) plane marks and I decided this week-end was the time to address it. I went out and bought a random orbital sander. Stupidly, I got a battery powered sander (to use the existing batteries I already have). I get about 30 minutes out of the battery and then it takes some hours to recharge. So progress has been slow. I came in search of more efficient ways to remove the material to get back to a raw, level top.
The thing that worries me with scraper/plane is that the surface has knots. I don't want to get into a position where I hit a knot and do more damage. I just need to stick with sanding I guess and deal with the consequences of my terrible decisions on cordless vs corded.
Cheers for the great video. Would love to start building up my hand tools again so I can do jobs like this without having to make trips to the store.
A quite superb video, in which you cover all the most important areas. I make guitars. A soon as you start on a piece that has eccentric grain, you can basically forget the plane - even with a very fine set, the risks are too great. If you get tearout there isn't enough depth left in the piece to allow you to fix it (if you can), and you have a very expensive piece of firewood. Scrapers and sanding run neck and neck. There is a MUCH bigger learning curve associated with scrapers - with ROS you just don't tilt, don't lean, pay attention to the direction/pattern and speed you move the sander, and you're done. For brevity, I won't micromanage the elements involved in using a scraper but there are a lot and they all take plenty of practice. Contrariwise, a scraper wins because it is less toxic since it produces nice big shavings, not nasty tiny dust (so protecting our lungs). Of course, if you have a RELIABLE dust extraction facility in your shop (expensive) or you are happy wearing a high quality mask for considerable spells of time, sanding always wins over scrapers if you include the learning curve, which you should unless you are young and know you are going to be a lifelong woodworker. If you can't invest in a high quality extractor and you aren't comfortable in a mask (which, incidentally, should be a positive pressure respirator, not a simple dust mask, especially if you have a beard), then scrapers win if you can master the process.
I love hand planing. I feel like it is a great stress reliever.
totally!
Thanks for the tips. I’m a intermediate Wood worker with all necessary tools with the exception of a couple I plan on getting when I can. I’ve got a 3hp Jet table saw, a Bosch miter saw, a Powermatic 8 inch jointer, a Jet drill press, a Powermatic 44in drum sander, a Dewalt planer, and my router table from Sommerfield tools for which I built the cabinet for. I also have a cheap bandsaw that I want to replace. Why did I tell you that? Just for the heck of it. Lol.
Seriously though, I bought those tools because I love woodworking. I love the art of making something of my own creation/design. I have learned some things from your video presentations on different subjects and they have helped me become a better woodworker. Keep sharing with us your knowledge. It’s much appreciated from this 62 yr old man.
My opinion is simply that you are a wealth of knowledge and an even better purveyor of that knowledge!
I totally agree 👍. I'm a one man shop building projects for $. The 1st. thing i have to have is the finished wood surface has to pop out at the home/ business owner. They don't care what I use or how my wore out hands feel. I sometimes use all three plus a few more to get the final results my people want to see . Great videos. Thanks and keep 'em coming
Sanding is the most forgiving smoothing method. It also takes less skill than the the other two alternatives-in both use and maintenance. So….
Another excellent Stumpy Nubs video!
agree, I find planing quite difficult and end up with craters and bumps, haven't tried a scraper though
Like you, I think that all three methods have their place. I find it very satisfying to create that smooth, sheen, finish on a piece of cooperative material with a well tuned hand plane. Thanks for covering this topic.
There is also the enjoyment factor
Hand planes and scrapers are a blast to work with IMHO
The cabinet shops I worked in these last few years sanding direction makes a lot of difference. Especially with stain. Also orbital sander vibrations can be very painful if done for long periods of time
I dislike the dust, the humm in the hands and the noise. Sander gives me a very uncomfortable, edgy feel in the whole body. I just bought a little plane from Veritas, will be playing around with that.
Great video, instructions and introduction to all 3 methods. For the plane gets the nasty stuff / bulk of the roughness out of the way and finish off sanding with fine sandpaper. I’m a novice still planing is one of the most pleasant things once it’s working 😂
This is an exceptional channel.
Great summary. I was fooled into believing planing is the only way to go. And that sanding is for the uneducated masses. Then I got so much tear out that once I got the grain figured out and the wood to an acceptable finish the piece was half the size. I agree if the wood behaves well and your plane is set up correctly nothing beats the speed and finish a hand plane can produce. If you have difficult grain or face where planing of the end will result in breakout, like the four outer faces of a dovetailed box. Sanding can save you a lot of headache.
When my grandfather passed (he was a cabinet maker of 36 years with Standard Oil) I inherited his tool cabinet. I found this funny 3x5 card made from spring steel and had no idea what it was until attending a wood show and being introduced to the "hand scraper". Woah - new world. Easy to keep a curl on the edge with a little practice and THE BEST tool for fixing drips and errors in finish - awesome control. Gramps knew a little something . Random orbit sanding with good dust control is great, but for physical satisfaction, the plane is hard to beat. Thanks again for comparing. Perhaps you encourage those who haven't tried another method to give it a shot.
Even though I'm still learning how to set up my plane efficiently, in my experience, finish planing gives a smoother AND more lustrous finish. Good stuff, Jim. Thanks.
Very true, with a really sharp plane on a very fine setting with cooperating grain, the finish can almost look like glass. Very satisfying when the stars align.
Well, James, You are right in Your ratings.
But only in case of flat boards.
I often work with round and bombe shapes, where only scrapers of various contours may be used.
Grinders with soft abrasive balls are used only for small curves.
Therefore, there is not much choise left except scrapers.
Indeed, this process is slow.
But rounded shapes carperntry is more material and time consuming work. And quite challenging as well.
Also, there are cabinet scrapers for flat boards.
Nice tools👍. Easy to use and very forgiving.
I am planning to obtain one and recommend others to do so, although they are not cheap.
Alternatively, there is a scràping insert into a standard plane made by Veritas allowing to convert temporarily any hand plane into a cabinet scraper.
Thanks, this is an episode I've been waiting for, and it answered questions I didn't even know to ask.
I've said it before and I'll say it again : Stumpy you are an incredibly gifted teacher; I can always count on you for sound, rational teaching that effectively clarifies the fundamentals of any woodworking issue I'm trying to understand. I envy greatly how you've found your niche and how you offer so much to so many people from that niche.
Of course you were talking about surface preparation here. In my very limited experience I do prefer hand planing solid wood; even a wanna-be like me can put an incredible surface on a piece of solid wood with a sharpened and tuned Number 4; but I've recently made some investment in sanding gear and a built cabinet for it, for the times I build with plywood, for workpieces that are purely functional, and for sanding the finishes I apply to workpieces. It seems to me that it's all a matter of specifics; sometimes sanding is the right approach, sometimes planing. I have not yet learned to scrape.
Thanks so much for the thought you put into your content. We live in blessed times to have people like you and formats like this to teach us.
Thanks again! I just started using a beautiful handmade wooden plane made by an old friend. Cleaning up a cherry table top showed me much about grain direction but it is SOOOO smooth now. I think there will be much more hand planing gong on in my shop.
First, great overview! Sat on the edge of my seat the whole time. One thing I think that needs to be included is consummables. Plane blade rarely needs replaced. Scaper also rarely needs replaced. Sharpening tools rarely need replaced. Shopvac filters, face mask filters, sanding disks, sander batteries and electric to run the sander and shop vac are reoccurring costs. Not to mention replacement of the sander itself, though not frequent I doubt anyone will be using a 100 year plus RO sander in the future.
Learning for hand planing is much higher but I think it’s worth it. No worries if your opinion is different, do what works for you
Great breakdown of the options and reasoning.
One key point that is often overlooked, and was here, is the main reason for sanding vs the other options. Planing and scraping burnish the surface. This burnishing closes off the grain. If you are staining, this burnished surface can be problematic and create light and dark areas where the stain doesn't penetrate into the wood properly.
Sanding, on the other hand, leaves consistent scratches in the surface of the material, which, if the correct grit is used, allows for proper stain penetration and a more even color. It is also ideal for any sealer that may be used in preparation for the topcoat. In my opinion, even if you plane or scrape, you should always finish with sandpaper to create that even surface scratch that is ideal for the final stain and topcoat.
Thank you so much for this extremely helpful and clear explanation. These three factors we can now have in our mind to weigh them to come to a decision. Now THAT is great instruction!
Used to finish everything with sandpaper because it is so easy, just takes time. I just finished a table and had a little tearout to remove, so I tried my scraper. I'm a convert. The surface is just so sweet now, and the tearout went away, and it just worked so well. I have a very simple jig I made for the scraper and I have a 400 grit diamond plate that makes removing the old burr and all the flattening steps easy as pie. Mmmmm, piiiiie. Sorry, where was I? Right. Scraper. I did a lot of work on that table with the scraper and I think my future projects will include a lot more scraping and a lot less sanding. And more pie.
Thank you, very well rounded, unbiased presentation.
A fourth consideration: Cost. You buy a hand plane or a scraper once. Sandpaper is consumable. Then it goes down the rabbit hole of needing a sharpening system for the planes, or a burnisher for the scraper, so it's up to the individual person on weighing the cost of higher initial investment with planes, or cost over time with sandpaper.
In the end it seems like all three have their place, and are often best used in conjunction with each other for different scenarios.
thank you for the koenigsegg, always a pleasure for the eyes
Very nice overview and summary of the three techniques. Thanks!
You nailed it for me - Planing definately takes less time, right up until I get a bunch of tear out as I'm trying to finish it. :(
Re: scraping. I have one of those curved scrapers from Crucible tools. It has been an eye opener. It does make scraping a much easier process.
I have put more gentle curves than Crucible's on a couple of my scrapers and I find, for me, that is the sweet spot.
Well done Stumpy! There is nothing in woodworking that is easy, do to all the variables in getting a job done. It's an art and science, a good craftsman understands as well as patience. Everything is easy when the stars are aligned, but an experienced craftsman knows how to remedy an issue to success with knowledge and patience till the end!
Great discussion, another factors not discussed was cost. Since wood is not perfect you will need all three methods and hardware to beat the devil in wood! And that is were cost may be a factor. Style of wood working is another. Rustic, carpenter, cabinet or funiture makers have different degree of tools and methods. So many factors in bringing a good woodworker!
Thank you for a good holistic overview of these three paths to finishing, it really helped clear up a bit of confusion for me. Stay cool over there and have a good one.
Funny this topic came up, I spent time this afternoon thicknessing some pine for a small cabinet in Mike Pekovich's book. After I finished thicknessing I grabbed my smoothing plane and started cleaning up the surfaces. I will admit...I could NEVER get a surface that glass smooth that quickly with sanding.
Yes its less convenient and predictable than sanding, but using a good sharp smoother on reasonably predictable wood (pine, cherry, walnut) is a joy. Oak and ash require regular sharpening but aren't that much harder. Maple? Yeah sand that.
Great video as always!
planing is just incredibly satisfying in my opinion if you have nice wood and i know people who love the shavings as deco material for easter nests.
Great and objective comparison of the three methods! I agree one uses each depending on the context of the project.
Completely agree about wood grain… I’m working on a project now with several Douglas fir boards… my finishing method is determined by the grain of each board. Some are straight with few knots. I can finish them quickly with a hand plane. Some have big knots with difficult grain. Those are getting sanded.
I'd say all three myself.
Personally I use planes unless the wood looks dangerous, then a scraper. Sandpaper for *really* crazy grain changes, marquetry, and expensive veneer woods where if it tears out even a little I'm screwed.
The big thing for me is I enjoy finishing wood with planes and scrapers, but sandpaper turns it into a chore. It removes the risk of failure, but also all the fun, so it's saved for when it's needed.
Amazingly informative video. When I have the opportunity to start doing wood working, I am going to be binging these videos.
Good job, good video. Thanks for the summary. I was recently doing lots of sanding to fix the tear out I inflicted on my tabletop. I'm a newby and enjoyed the shavings of the recently purchased and sharpening effort of my hand plane, until the thrashing i was doing on my slabs. Live and learn, and research on youtube. Thanks, please continue the video's.
Great breakdown and explanation, James. Mostly agree with you but as I get older, I'm starting to notice I reach more for the plane for the finish pass. No mask, no earplugs, no dust and you get those pretty cool shavings. Thanks for this one.
Thank you. I need to learn more about using plains.
I became a scraping guy for a reason you didn't discuss.
Sanding (as you know) makes thousands of tiny scratches. Even if you don't stain wood, the character of the grain is dimmed by the light reflecting off all those scratches. If you stain, the problem is more obvious. So it's not about ease or convenience, it's about the look.
That said, I'd love to hear you tell more about technique. Sometimes the scraped surface has very smooth, beautiful grain, but with streaks that take stain differently (and ruin the appearance). Re-sharpening doesn't help, and I can't tell whether the problem is angle, force, uneven sharpening, or just the nature of the beast. How about a video on scraping?
Also you have this great ability which im going to try to describe here. I think i would describe it as, you really know how to pick out what is and isn’t important and describe it in a concise way while covering all the relevant info.
This video was so well written! Such a great outline. So easy to follow because you put in the time to organize your thoughts!
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Very helpful! Thanks again Stumpy.
So very, very interesting, James. Thanks again for taking the time to share 🌞
Thanks for sharing with us James, great tips for sanding. They’re appreciated, Fred. 🙏🏻🙏🏻👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👋👋
Good content covers a good topic. Great content covers topics that address the beginner, intermediate and advanced woodworkers. This is great content.
I remember my dad had a big tick glass to do da!! it brought back memories being in his shop! And sound of the hand saw handplane the smell of home made wood glue …
Very good discussion. Would add that I have and use Stanley scraper planes,senior moment ,think number 112. Really prefer on contrary grain. Seems to be best of both worlds
Good info. Nice video as always. In my opinion, in straight-grained wood, a smoothing plane provides the best overall finish because it cuts the grain versus sanding. Sanding basically smashes the grain. Think exploded cigar. It shows in the finish. The difference is obvious. Figured wood is altogether another issue with a plane whereas tearout is an issue no matter how sharp the plane is. A scraper or sander works best on figured wood. That's been my experience in over 40 years of woodworking.
@@tungsten_carbide I hear you but it would also depend on how well you can see. Lol
@@tungsten_carbide LOL. There's plenty that can't see well or simply ignore what they are looking at.
Good overview and assessment James. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. I learn so much from watching your videos.
Lots of great information here, very helpful for me as an amateur woodworker
Now that's an exceptional and detailed explanation of the methods of dressing and preparing wooden surfaces and compatibility of grain and wood fibers response to the tools being used I personally use all and experience will tell you when to change thank you for sharing this information god bless
Thanks! Wow, over a half million subs! Congrats! I think I've been with you since 30 or 40k.
Very good comparison. Of course many of us use plywood quite a bit and sanding is probably going to be my choice for that. I do enjoy using both planes and scrapers whenever I can, however.
Thank you for educating me!
Very good video. I like having a few scrapers around, especially for milled edges, but barely use one. Planes are satisfying, but often not too convenient. A sander just works. The bigger question becomes how to handle the dust.
Oh yes. Scraping is a powerful method, but oh so much hard work. I find it the most precise way to strip old film finish from e.g. a table top that only has a thin layer of nice oak. For a noob it is quite a workout, and sharpening card scrapers is another skill to learn. I currently sharpen two card scrapers each time, there is then at least one edge that works as intended. No, I have not used them enough to have developed that skill, there was no need, the wood was mostly well behaved enough for hand planing.
On most of my projects, I'm going to use all of the methods. Planes for the flats, scrapers for the curves and knots, then sander for post sealer/primer, stain/paint layers and finally hand sanding for the final finish. For beginners I'd say start with a sander since there is less to learn.
Another excellent video. I’d only add scraping and planing doesn’t raise the grain as much as sanding, but that really relates to the speed of using each. Thanks!
Very good summary…thanks
The round robin at near the end reminds me of the monologue by the Sicilian in Princess Bride when selecting which goblet to drink from. LOLOLOL Regardless this, as always is filled with great information. As always make an informed choice for each project based on several factors and go to it.
As someone new to woodworking this gave me a practically useable framing of the question. I’m now prepared to make a decision based on objective information. Thanks, that was helpful 👍
There is also the satisfaction. The sander gives a great surface for sure but there is a great satisfaction in hand planing!
For years i didnt have a plane, orbital sander or a scraper. It was just lots of time spent going throught the grits and sticks to get into the hard to reach places. Then i got a 2nd hand orbital sander.. loved it and then a plane. I was never very good with a plane. I torn grain out and destroyed project. Im still trying with an old stanley no 5!
I just took a break from gluing up some flame/ribbon maple.
I uses a hand plane (aka 'The Divot Maker') to finish up the glue edges.
Live & learn
As always James, well done. I have tried scraping and using a hand plane and I just have not mastered these tools enough to feel comfortable using them on a project. I agree with your points but as a novice I will stick to sanding with the various grits.
@@tungsten_carbide Thanks for the quick response. Since you are knowledgeable on the scraper topic, let me get your opinion. I bought a Bahco scraper and watched numerous RUclips videos on how to sharpen one. I could never get the 'hook' necessary to create shavings, I always just got sawdust. I even took it to my local woodworking store and the 'sharpening expert' did not have any better success. Is there another brand that is easier to work with or am I just destined to using the orbital sander? Thank you for your thoughts.
@@tungsten_carbide Thank you so much for taking the time with this detailed response! I will view the video by Galbert and give the scraper another try. Again, thanks for going above and beyond.
I have heard that the finish is different and in some cases that matters. For instance, the grit from the sandpaper dislodges at some rate and embeds itself in the sanded surface. If the surface is one that will move over another wood surface (like a wooden handplane), it may produce scratches. I have heard another thing also, similarly to the difference between sawing and cutting. Namely, that the cells around the pores of the wood get destroyed on the surface when sawing and sanding, unlike a clean cut from a knife, axe, plane or scraper. This can affect the lifetime of wood if exposed to weather or high humidity changes. This is seen on wooden roof shingles that were sawn vs hewn.
This was an excellent video. Very informative. Thank you.
2 other major factors are. Quality of the sandpaper this can make it a breeze or a nightmare. The other is it you are refinishing scrapers are a must at least until you get most of the old finish off other wise you will go through lots of paper
Depending on the project, I may finish using any of the three methods. Scraping is great for smaller pieces, planing is great for those pieces that have tool marks and sanding which is generally what I go too just because it's more convenient works to get me where I need to be on most projects.
You never disappoint. Thanks
Very good summary, Stumpy
As someone who is physically handicapped. The only way to smooth a board is power sanding. I cannot use hand planes or most hand tools. My shop is all power tools, from screwdrivers to cutting devices.
I find that hand planing works ok for northern hemisphere woods like oak, walnut and cherry.
But I mainly use redgum, ironbark, blackbutt and spotted gum.
I've never had a good hand plane experience with them. They tend to be hard and "cranky".
So sanding is pretty much the go to option.
The biggest consideration in my mind is the level of finish quality desired. Sanding is adequate for utilitarian projects in soft woods. For a fine finish on heirloom quality hardwoods it’s hard to beat a scraper because of the control you have. A well tuned plane gives a glass smooth finish if, as you say, the wood cooperates. My vote goes to a razor sharp cabinet scraper for that finishing touch on things that matter.
There is no doubt a plane or a scraper produces a smoother surface. But most of that goes away once you put on a film finish.
Really good video! As always, filled with information in a compact presentation. Keep it coming 😉 Take care and have a good one :D 🖐
There is method behind hand planing and sharpening. This is also one of those "don't buy cheap or you will regret it" areas (kinda goes with most woodworking tools right?). A high quality 5 1/2 plane is a good choice and after tuning and sharpening is just a real joy to use. Pay attention to how much blade you expose. For difficult grain use a light cut and keep the plane mouth narrow to avoid the raising of the grain.
Super video James, love the plane and sander but the scraper destroys my geriatric old thumbs. Regards Jim UK.
Great informative video!
Good video. I tend to plane or scrape whenever I can. In general, I don't use polyurethane finishes and so with shellac, oil (even T&T varnish oil), or painted surface it is handplaning for the win. At this point, the only time I sand is if it is a small spot that needs a touch up or I am staining. Even then, I still plane first. So for example I am working on window stops that I will hit with a gel stain: plane first to get the surface cleaned up, then hit with desired grit by hand for the proper absorption of the stain. That way I don't have to spend forever working up in grits or getting dust everywhere.
@@tungsten_carbideyup, I'm aware. But I don't use it for a protective finish.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
And choosing the preparation in relationship with finishing with products?
Standard disclaimer: I am a complete amateur hobbyist, so my opinion is nothing compared to some of the professionals. That said, few years back I bought a 6" Bosch orbital sander for a reason that escapes me.. prior to that I had only used smaller 4" orbital and other power sanders generally found in big box stores. I made a walnut coffee table last year, and I ran into all the issues mentioned in the video. Trying to plane was almost a disaster, with tear outs in the middle of the table. Anyhow, reverted to my 6" sander, and started with #40 disc...I needed to take out atleast 1/16 material to get rid of all the tear outs. I was done in less than two hours started with #40 > #60 > #80 > #120 > #180 > #240 > #400 > #600 >#800... When I tried to apply the finish (urethane) ..I realized, the wood is too smooth because urethane didn't seem to apply correctly, it would pool at spots and some spots would be completely dry. Sanded it back to #240...and that worked out perfectly. Ever since then, I swear by my 6" sander to be final finishing. Interestingly my 6" seems to have slower motor speed than my smaller sanders but it takes less than half the amount of time to sand than the smaller ones. :)
For say a tabletop after a glue up I start with a plane because its so much faster (and more fun for me) than sanding to get it flat, then sand from there. I never was a scraper guy because to me they are more trouble than they are worth (burnishing the edge etc.). For parts such as table skirts that are simple cut outs - not glue ups - i just hit them with the random orbit sander through about 3 grits and I'm done.
For any new woodworkers - plane/scrape/sand your parts BEFORE you assemble them. Trying to fix defects after you have made your glue up is much more difficult.
Great video as always. An orbital sander w/ good discs (Diablo are great) can take off a giant amount of material or a little bit depending on grit and technique. I find it WAY easier as a relatively newer handtool user who is still getting his skills (technique/sharpening) together. For instance, the scrapers are actually the hardest of the three. I save them for touch-ups and specific problematic areas, as well as glue removal.
Glad to see your injury (not sure when it happened) is a memory, however traumatic! Keep on working, my friend.
For very fine scraping I often use glass. Any glasier ends up with boxes of scrap glass which you can have for the asking.
Microscope slides aren't free but give you 8 sharp edges for detail work and are remarkably strong, plus you can see through glass & visualize your surface as you work
A box of scrap glass often has the perfect shape you need for odd pieces of wood, like spindles for instance.
Downside is one must be gentle of course. The glass may be free, but the Band-Aids aren't. Try it.
Excellent video, as always. However, this entire explanation assumes that the work is flat. I'd be interested in your opinions on angled, routed, and other nonflat surfaces. (A good excuse to show off your planes 😂)
I got a wonderful opportunity to watch a master violin luthier work in his shop for a few days. He was getting the body ready for finish and used a whole bunch of scrapers of different shapes, no sandpaper at all. Very slow and precise work but absolutely beautiful when finished, the wood looked a mile deep.
A pneumatic straight line sander goes w the grain, is pretty quiet, & neat to watch.
Well done!