Affirmative Action would be better if it were class-based, race-blind ... that way, black and latino students would still be covered but expanded to include disadvantaged Asian groups (e.g., Hmong in MN), Appalachian whites, etc.
Absolutely. It would protect it from bad-faith attacks while also making sure the educational attainment goes to people where it will make the most impact. Breaking generational poverty is extremely important.
I disagree. Affirmative Action should be abolished completely because it is discriminating against Asian Americans. According to NYT, Asian Americans have to score 140 points higher than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics and 450 points higher than blacks in order to have the same chance of entering into Ivy Leagues. Diversity should not be prioritized over performance and merit. If Asians are generally performing better than other racial groups and more of them get into top schools as a result, then so be it. Don't sacrifice the potential of these top-performing students just so you can virtue signal about how you are inclusive towards people of all races
Totally agree. We can’t generalize by race like the model minority myth does, which says all Asians are from privileged backgrounds who can achieve a certain level in academics.
Hmm… interesting idea. First time I’ve read an alternative solution to the affirmative action idea so that it can still help those who need it instead of totally dismantling it. I’m not going to watch this full video but I hope the Fung Bros point out that statistically speaking Affirmative Action has helped white women the most. So, there’s definitely a need to reform AA so that it has more impact on traditionally disadvantaged groups. PS. I’m Chinese American who attended one of the lowest ranking high schools in my district. I was salutatorian of my class and got into UC Berkeley. The valedictorian from the year prior was also Chinese American but was rejected from UC Berkeley. However, without knowing what my schoolmate’s college application looked like, it’s hard to say why he was rejected and I was accepted. It’s not just about scores and grades. A white woman told me in middle school that at schools like UC Berkeley, I would not be considered a minority so I needed to be well rounded and stand out in other ways. I’m nobody special and I have an average white collar job, so in the grand scheme of things, it’s not where you go to college but what you make of it.
This will affect the Asian community very badly. He got played. Also he could have some other issues. Check his mental state. Thank good there are HSBC where blacks can go to.
Legacy admissions policy are the issue. The African American students are under represented at all 6 to universities he applied to. No research was done….
Wait till these Asian American kids learn about the bamboo ceiling and western office politics. Affirmative action is a small hurdle compared to competing against Yt people for promotions in the USA.
Great point. The bamboo ceiling, like the model minority myth is a huge issue. We need more people standing up for the Asian community because historically, the absence of that voice is what contributed to these harmful stereotypes and disadvantages.
@@wamyy5 Whos is going to stand up for the Asian community in these jobs to help defeat the bamboo ceiling in these workplaces? The European descended folks who have a vested interest in ensuring their own are elevated above all others? The Black and Hispanic people that never managed to get the education needed to get that job in the first place due to Asian arguing against efforts to help the disadvantaged? Who?
There are many Asian American CEO's like Hock Tan, Jensen Huang to name a few running Fortune 500 companies. Lets not increase hate in this world please.
@@yashpatel261 There's 13/500.... You also named 2 CEOs that founded their companies, not risen thru the ranks. All the Ivy league Asians on the east coast that stay in the east coast metro markets, 10-20 yrs. into their careers...yikes
@@yashpatel261you're Indian and will never be accepted by whites. I've seen some Indians have that delusion just because they married a lower status white woman, and they buy into how people act to be socially acceptable.
Right. Asians go hard, and it’s basically strong asians competing against other strong asians. Getting rejected then wondering why? Bro you’re competing in the hardest college bracket bro!
People with Asian ancestry are the second highest admitted to most schools after European ancestry Most times more than twice as much as other groups Actually, people with Asian and European ancestry are accepted at the same rate at Stanford and caltech there more people with Asian ancestry admitted to MIT and Carnegie melon than any other group, Including European descent Really Jon Wang must not be very good at math because the statistics are not in his favor Unless he’s trying to say that there shouldn’t be any people of African or Latin ancestry in these schools
Guy needs to get it together.... He's up against Legacy students, Athletes, Family of Donors, Staff or Professors. He's also up against other valedictorians or people with just as great or better scores. Perhaps it's his persona.
No one is addressing that AA is used to ensure admission of WOMEN as well. No one looked at the stats of how many women are in school, based on goals to include women in university. AA was established to legally stop pervasive and historical discrimination and exclusion of Black Americans (descendants of those who were trafficked, enslaved, tortured, and systematically oppressed until 1970’s) and women (including White Women). I bet the largest group that has benefited from AA is White women. If the true issue is concern that less qualified people are getting in, based on AA, then why isn’t anyone looking at the admission practices relating to women? My guess is that they are too afraid of the backlash and went for historic underclass instead. People forget that AA is trying to fix problems that were created by this country. Ignoring the root cause of the issue and justifying continued oppression is a return to status quo for America. We reap what we sow.
I appreciate everyone's take on this topic. As a current student, I loved this discussion. Most schools, especially Ivy League schools, don't use affirmative action in their selection process. California has actually banned it. Also, affirmative action has benefited yt women more than it has benefited any minority group. Lastly, just because a person gets an amazing score on their SAT doesn't mean they excelled in other aspects of their life. It could be that he was up against students who had a much more extensive extracurricular list than he did, students who were more personable and better speakers, or students who exuded better leadership skills than he did. Getting a great score doesn't mean you are a great leader, it just means you studied. Ultimately, legacy kids make up over 30% of Ivy League admissions...he's attacking the wrong group of people, which speaks for his mindset.
Oh yeah, clearly all he did was “study”. It’s not like studying is all that important in attempting to get admitted to schools where you study even more. If studying and education isn’t what this is all about, then don’t call it “higher education”. Call it what it is then, a snobby country club.
Also check your own bias. You don’t even know Jon Wang, how do you presume to say he’s not a good speaker (based on that 10 sec sound bite?), or that he has no personality? How would Harvard admissions know that? You know a very damming piece of evidence in the Supreme Court case was in fact Harvard AO’s assigning low personality scores to Asian students they haven’t even interviewed yet, just straight off the bat from seeing their last names.
@@edmundlee4087 Out of all things I said, you laser focused on a hypothetical point I made? You are correct to say Higher education is higher education for a reason, but if one wants to go to one of the most elite schools in the country, one needs to show that they are capable of more than being book smart, unless you're a legacy kid. There are many people in the world who are book smart. In my opinion, Ivy league schools are likened to country clubs. Why do so many people want to go to Ivy league schools? It's not only because these schools have amazing professors, but also because it increases one's chances of leveling up financially and socially. You get the opportunity to rub elbows with people who can potentially help advance your life, similar to a country club. If higher education is all one cares about, there are amazing schools with amazing curriculum and highly accomplished professors that aren't Ivy league. What's wrong with attending those?
This topic is why my Stanford rejection video blew up - I only discussed affirmative action as a possibility, but there are enough people who know that race indeed plays a large factor, even though scores aren’t everything. After getting hundreds of comments about me being rejected because of the color of my skin, I mustered up the courage to make my latest YT video that speaks up for the Asian community. Andrew and David, you are the biggest source of my inspiration to finally release that video. Thank you for spreading awareness for Asians ❤
Why are legacy admissions, students admitted because they are from under-represented states like West Virginia, students of university benefactors, and the MANY students who are admitted with lower scores, for reasons other than ethnicity: those types of admissions are never the focus or attacked. Why is it that when a talented student is rejected from an educational program, some people immediately and exclusively focus their ire on (mainly, black) students who many presume must not be qualified to matriculate in that program?
@@sweetssweet1374 First off, all your questions are answered in my video - I dive into why people care so much more about fighting affirmative action than legacy. Secondly, I also don’t think legacy is fair. I cannot say the exact percentage, but like Andrew, I think we can’t really blame colleges for letting in a kid whose parents contributed a ton to the school. Finally, I think what triggers a lot of people when others question affirmative action is the idea that those in opposition think a black/brown kid took someone else’s spot and therefore they’re against those kids. This is a polarized view that can only create more conflict rather than trying to work toward a solution, because the questioning of affirmative action is just concerning whether it’s right to disadvantage someone based on the color of their skin. It goes against MLK’s quote. Thanks for replying to my comment and keeping the valuable discussion going!
Girl do you even realize that the reason legacy admission is even a thing is because they wanted to limit je wish and asian students at Elite schools?? "we can’t really blame colleges for letting in a kid whose parents contributed " Well the thing is.. ya'll can! There are plenty of schools in the US that don't provide preferential treatment to legacy kids such as the UC schools (which btw also don't have affirmative action). MIT and Caltech also don't consider legacy status. So it is VERY possible for ya'll to also fight with us to eradicate legacy admissions as it is not a necessity yet ya'll still wanna bring us brown and black people down. If ya'll wanna take down something that is actually founded on a basis of disc rimination then why not target legacy admissions?? Hmmm.
@@wamyy5 If we can't blame colleges for letting in a kid because her or his parents matriculated at the school, how can we turn around and blame colleges for letting in a kid whose diverse background is seen as enriching or beneficial to the school in some way? Either both are wrong, or neither is. Frankly, schools use lots of factors to determine which students will be offered a slot. It is racist to focus almost exclusively on affirmative action when applicants are angry at not having received a slot. Yet have almost no focus on the tuba player from West Virginia who had lower test scores and GPA, and was offered a slot due to talent and geographic diversity. The target is primarily black students, which is suspect. There's a highly rated comment here stating just that: the person's belief (that elite universities don't share) that black and brown students do not have what it takes to compete on merit. Is it really mysterious that elite institutions prefer to use their own years of admissions experience and empirical data to maintain their academies, rather than simplistic and incorrect views about using test scores to exclusively define their student bodies? It makes perfect sense to me, and is why these institutions continue to be regarded as some of the best in the world. Thank you for the debate as well.
Race does play a huge factor, but not in the way you think. They just don’t want a bunch of Asians there. And I wish the Asian community had the courage to talk about why. I believe black students only make up 5% of a school like Harvard. However, Legacy brats are more than a quarter. So to just blame it on the affirmative action is kind of ridiculous. You can scapegoat affirmative action all you want but those white legacy kids aren’t going anywhere. Not all of these Legacy brats are rich folks. Some of them are just everyday lawyers who parents went there. I know I’m going to ruffle some feathers for saying this, but a lot of this is about money. Contributing alumni are very big part of the endowment of these large institutions. This is also about programs, Asian students have a tendency to pack themselves in S.T.E.M. fields but White , Latino and Black students are kind of spread out over professions. If you just fill the school with Asians, you’re barely gonna have any students in other fields. You’re gonna have 5000 students in S.T.E.M. and what 50 students in education 50 students in Poli Sci and 50 students in the arts. The whole world knows that most Asian parents pressure their kids to go into the S.T.E.M. fields. However, White, Latino and Black parents are more likely to support their kids going into the arts. These Ivy League schools, pride themselves on having a footprint across society. They want that footprint to be large, in every profession on the planet. They get millions of dollars from Hollywood actors to support their arts program, and they need to spend that money and fill those slots in the art department with students. So go ahead get rid of affirmative action, you’re only gonna see a change in a couple of percentage points. Asian students are gonna have to deal with this lack of diversity in their choice of a major and these legacy kids. I’m sure my words may irritate a few people, but I feel that this is a very complex situation that’s deals with a lot of things that may make the Asian community uncomfortable. Last, but not least, my college professor went to Harvard, and if I repeated what she told me, you guys might dox men and have somebody show up to my house and murder me. To put it plain and simple they’re trying to put a cap on the number of Asians at these schools .
I say get rid of those damn legacy admissions. By the way, white women have benefited more from affirmative action than anybody. As an African American, I appreciate your intelligent discussion. Keep up the good work.
1st off: Alvin is hilarious in this! 2nd off: We as asians need to work on being well rounded people. I work at a law firm and the asians at the firm are smarter and harder working than everyone else but are not assertive and don't do well at parties and social functions. That's not the type of personality that is going to lead to promotions to leadership positions. Strong academics can only get you so far in life.
We don't know about his personal statements and other factors. Affirmative action helps Asians which isn't being said - for many Southeastern Asians such as Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Thai, Filipinos, Pacific Islanders, other non-Chinese Asians - immigrant and working class kids. It gives them a chance versus most wealthier and more established Chinese who were provided more. This kid used golf for example - a pretty expensive sport to support. I doubt his life adversities matched other applicants including non-Chinese Asians as well. Why isn't this said?
I agree. You would have a stronger point IF affirmative action actually helped SEA and PI much in the same way it had helped other non-Asian minorities. But it doesn’t, that’s the problem too. I’m all for AA if it actually helps to serve those people, but it doesn’t most of the time. People talk about Blacks and Hispanics all the time, but everyone rarely talks about Native Americans/First Nations/Indigenous people who arguably are even more invisible (those are the people I have no problem where AA can step in to assist). But people have to prove without a doubt all the ways in which they are not privileged. But that is a slippery slope as it devolves into the oppression olympics. At some point you can only make so much excuses before it becomes played out too and a meme. Also, aside from the obvious and basic White people, where do Jewish people factor in all of this? Do they suffer the same boxed in opportunities? Do they play all sides? Do they get to decide who is admitted, including their own? What challenges do they face, or privileges do they benefit from in all of this?
@@user-ot2nh8qb7d It's interesting that you mentioned jewish people bc they are the reason Legacy admission is a thing. In the 1920's Elite universities used legacy admissions to maintain spots for Anglo-Protestants amid fears that Jews, Catholics, and Asians were increasingly taking spots at the schools.
Beyond grades, the admission committee wants to see that you're an "interesting" person to have in the school. Trying to get into a school using a standard formula like grades wouldn't help with the "interesting" test.
Correct. There was an admissions officer a while back that laid out the fact that even limiting it to perfect and near perfect GPA and test exam scores there are 10x more applicants than there are slots at all elite schools COMBINED. So they have to use other things to gauge who to let in.
My son was in the Duke Tip program since 8th grade due to not missing any problems on math standardized testing in 7th grade. He made all a As up to 10th grade. He made around 1300 in SAT in 2021. But that year, Duke had 40000 freshman applicants. They took 1400 freshmen. I was very proud of my son. We overcame homelessness, Seizures and and he got his grades back up, and he still got an interview at Duke. To be fair, the Validictorian had a 4.8..... GPA in his high school in Virginia as she had taken college classes and AP classes while in high school. I think he has points, but more than likely, they had small class and many high achieving scholars. The key is did he get accepted or did he get accepted with scholarships? I'm from GA, and GA Tech is a fantastic school just don't tell the bumblebees I said that. I am a bulldog for life.
I also got rejected from most of the top tier ivy league schools with a 1560 SAT I, and 3 800/800 SAT II (6360/6400 combined) and 4.4 GPA but did make it into UCs. I said f that and became a reggaeton rapper/singer
I think the admission committee would have liked your background as a raggaeton rapper/singer. That makes you more interesting than someone who just demonstrates academics. This should have been in your application if you did not include it.
@@ktan8 agreed I did rap in high school and didn’t include it. I didn’t take it seriously until now. More Asians need to do arts and include that - totally agree
Most Ivy Leagues look at other things besides test scores. Not only that but among Ivy league scores, his weren't all that great anyways. Can't blame it on Affirmative Action when multiple of the schools that he applied to, don't even use AA in the process of choosing students. His extracurricular probably sucked as well as his essay. Plus legacy students are a bigger issue than Affirmative Action.
@@Oscar42ohis 1590 and 4.4 gpa ain't that impressive, and neither is quizbowl. I was also an academic decathlon champ similar to quizbowl, 4.8 weighted unlike his 4.4, and I scored 2390 out of 2400. And he does sound robotic, like me in the past before I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs like weed to lower my autism and grey matter. I wouldnt have accepted him or myself.
John is acting very entitled. Just because you got a perfect test score and good gpa doesnt mean you should be auto accepted. Other factors do play a role, like community service, volunteering, and more. Dude should go ask the nurses and Doctors.
Why do you assume he has no personality ? Why do you assume he is robotic ? There is a little bit of self-racism going on here especially with the Comedian trying to look cool and "non-Asian". There should be no question John Wang was discriminated against. As for whether that's a death sentence for his future, of course not. His future is up to him to define and that's fine to give him the encouragement to pursue his dreams regardless of what college he lands in. My personal opinion is that for the sake of peace and stability, we need to continue to have affirmative action programs at colleges. However, let's not find ways to denigrate Asian people who are deserving but left out. Asians shouldn't need to try to be "cool", "part of the crowd", "great personality", "super jock" etc. These are exactly the attributes (or lack thereof) that are thrown subjectively at us as a negative so why are we subscribing to these as model attributes ? Just be yourself and yes find passion and interests outside of school curriculum is good. But the discussion you guys are doing skews much more to the former. You guys are great and I enjoy your shows but be aware of that.
Nah, they making fun of him for blaming Affirmative Action (AA) when he completely neglected the College Scandal with Nepo-babies or Legacies. Sure, we can say AA is unfair but white women are also labeled "minorities" and use it more. He is trying to get brownie points from the white-made system that doesn't want him there. And Harvard doesn't use AA, BTW.
because he’s boring and he has no extra curricular activities… he can be mad about legacy students getting in but no he chose to go the victim route when he’s no victim🤣🤣
He DID have lots of extra-curriculars. He was in a tough no-win situation because it's impossible to protest anything without looking "less than pleasant".
The lack of meritocracy based advancement in the US is going to be our downfall, when we compete against countries who advance people based on merit. The most capable people need to rise to the top for a country to compete in a technological world.
We've never been in a meritocracy. Knock this off. Even legacy BS was created in the 1920s when Jewish and Asian students were doing better than native White Americans.
The lack of fertility rate will probably be the downfall of those “meritocracy” nations before the USA actually fails due to some arbitrary meritocracy standard you think is fundamentally important to a nation’s success.
@@henrytep8884 The USA is already failing due to its lack of ability to compete, not because of its lack of fertility, but rather, due to its paucity of STEM graduates.
This comes down to meritocracy vs utilitarianism. Do you want colleges to ONLY allow entry to the best and brightest? Congratulations, your colleges will be filled only with those two can afford all the best private schools, test prep, cram schools, extracurricular activities. This largely ensures higher education becomes the purview of the wealthy and powerful. Do you want colleges that reflect the demographics of your nation and seek to break cycles of poverty so more people are educated overall? Congratulations, the limited slots in education now go to people who otherwise never would've made it into that institution while excellent students see their effort rewarded with... nothing. Go look at what happened when California helped Black and Hispanic demographics (massive chunks of the state population) break cycles of poverty by opening the doors to higher education to them. Republicans rallied angry Asian parents and used them as a cudgel to destroy that proposition, and the state's rates of Black and Hispanic educational attainment have never recovered. Ever since then the right wing in this country has consistently used Asians as the perfect response to other demographics requesting aid or support.
No, it comes down to whether race should be a factor in admission. Meritocracy vs mild discrimination. Why do you think California banned affirmative action? Do you want your Doctors to be people who earned their degree on equal terms or should we pity people that aren't as gifted and pretend they are equally deserving.
@@Ben-lh7jg Re-read my post again. This entire thing is ultimately whether our society wants higher education to be a meritocracy or something more representative and useful to society as a whole.
@@RicochetForce No need to re-read, what you are comparing is meritocracy vs mild discrimination. Using race as a factor to accept people is not useful to society, its discrimination and therefore harmful. Again, why do you think California banned it?
@@RicochetForce Also, do you support affirmative action for men? Women are starting to make up larger shares of student populations so would you support universities accepting a lower test scoring man over a higher test scoring woman for the sake of utilitarianism? I guess thats fair, right? If women want to go to college they have to work a little bit harder for it than a man because diversity is more important than pure meritocracy.
Although Asian Americans do not receive benefits from Affirmative Action, at most top schools Asians are the second highest in the demographics behind white people despite only making up about 7% of American citizens. In general, Latinx and black communities are under resourced, leading to a bad education. People in those communities need some type of advantage to break the cycle of being at the bottom of society. If everything was blind admissions, only students who have gone to schools and grew up in communities with great opportunities and role models would get in, further keeping underrepresented communities at the bottom. The idea of “meritocracy” is to prevent underrepresented communities from attempting to get to the same level as middle to upper class communities (which normally consist of majority white Americans and some Asian American).
We should focus on other issues like history The Los Angeles Chinese massacre of 1871. Approximately 500 Hispanic Americans attacked, harassed, robbed, and murdered the ethnic Chinese residents in what is today referred to as the old Chinatown. And the Torreón chinatown massacre Watsonville riots was a period of racial violence that took place in Watsonville, California, from January 19 to 23, 1930. Involving violent assaults on Filipino American farm workers by local residents Those murders and perpetrators were eventually let go on legal technicality. No justice no peace
No offense, but undergraduate is overrated; extension of highschool at this point. It’s saturated and overpriced. Focus on graduate school. Go to Ivy League or Stanford for grad school, less concerned of affirmative action drama.
Spiderman across the spiderverse gave a great examples of this and call it out indirectly. If it's not a narrative they want to hear, they'll either change it or reject it.
I'm going to add a comment I made on this topic on a different channel. Take it however way you want. A black woman developed the COVID vaccine: Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett. Elite institutions are always looking for moneymakers, i.e., people who will create something that can be commercialized. Black people are the true inventors and creators. Black people are the engines of American society, some parts good and other parts bad. It's like Latino Americans now saying they are about to run Hip Hop. They may have some influence, but it is black people who make it what it is, some parts good and other parts bad. Asian Americans will have to do more than merely put up numbers. They will have to bring in money to these institutions. This is why Harvard grabbed Dr. Corbett because they knew that there will be grants and federal funding for decades to come. That's what Asian Americans do not understand. Asians will attend these elites but only the ones who bring in money, i.e., international students. Great video. New subscriber.
Universities are businesses first. They accept a collection of students that will statistically make their school the most money and prestige. If you view universities as anything other than businesses first, disappointment and misunderstanding is very possible.
I didn’t have the best SAT score nor GPA. However, I was happy to be accepted by two state universities and one big university. As for this man, it’s nothing personal. Besides, universities look for everything other than SATs and GPAs like after school activities, personalities and feedback.
@@richardchu3916 Why are you pulling the race card when even other asians admit that their parents don't care about their personality but rather their grades? Thus making them robots😂
@@richardchu3916 well for one, he applied to a lot of UC schools which don't even have Affirmative Action. They banned it in the 90's. So yeah maybe John Wang or whaveter is just boring! idk!
Maybe these students aren’t getting in, because they’re boring. I see tons of other Asians students at prestigious schools. So perhaps, those that aren’t getting in just aren’t competitive and interesting enough for the university’s culture. You don’t get everything you want, especially when you’re trying to fit into predominantly white spaces as a minority.
Here’s the deal with affirmative action It started with hiring But people realized that schools were still discriminating So the people trying to get a job still weren’t able to get the training to do the job…because of discrimination
4.6 GPA might seem to indicate grade inflation and low competition at his secondary school/high school. There's such a wide gap in standards and quality among American secondary schools. Elite preparatory boarding schools in New England like the Phillips Academies (Andover and Exeter) are very competitive in contrast to any suburban public high school. There are also selective public boarding schools like the North Carolina School for Science and Mathematics.
If he comes from a less privileged and competitive secondary school (which I doubt since he mentioned golf as a hobby) resulting in a higher GPA. Then all the more reason for AA to work in his favour as it does for his Black and Hispanic counterparts from similar high schools. But it doesn’t.
A 4.6 GPA may indicate inflation from certain schools; however, the SAT is supposed to be the standard. There is no inflation there. A 1490 SAT score placed him in the 99th percentile of SAT takers. I'm still wondering how he got rejected to UC Berkeley.
I think he should put his big boy pants on and just get a degree. These schools are prestigious bc their graduates went into the world and became powerful, wealthy, highly successful. Go to a basic school, save yourself the money on tuition, get your degree and change the world. Nobody really cares about what school you went too or what your GPA was. It only matters when you do something big, like cure cancer or solve the world hunger problem.
True. On the positive side, employers already know that it's incredibly hard for Asian students to get into the top of the top schools in the most competitive fields even if they have stellar credentials. One could consider the glass half-full or half-empty. The glass-full view is, as you said, Asian students now can go to easier schools, have free time to do outside projects or undergraduate research that help them when they apply for jobs, and employers now know not to judge Asian applicants by what college they went to.
@@Ben-lh7jg They threaten spots for YT people. Nearly half their admissions are from legacies, sports, donor relatives and children of staff for Harvard. So they arent going to touch their places.
College admissions board for American colleges and universities may have objective criteria, but the decisions made are often subjective. Get over it. Or apply to elite college overseas (e.g., the UK has some superior schools).
@@Willow-cw9te exactly. Universities abroad, like in the UK, decide strictly on academic achievement and not by the subjective, squishy stuff that admissions boards want here.
@@birdtj82 great story. You're right -- life is not fair. As the Fung Bros. suggested, some of these kids' parents do them a huge disservice by making them think just academic achievement alone will prepare them for eventual success. Doing everything that you're "supposed to do," does NOT guarantee things will go as you want. Unfortunately, it's not sexy to tell people that a large part of success is family resources and sheer luck. In any case, I also had a college roommate who paid for school by playing online poker (before it was banned).
He is just ONE person. There are tons of Asian Americans who DO have personality, who are stereotyped as NOT having personality. Some Asians are the funniest, most creative people if you know them as a friend you would know, but then from the admissions officer looking at their application and seeing their Asian name would automatically ASSUME they have a robot personality due to stereotypes.
1:55 - closed captions (it had said this guy's name: "The Duke," John Wayne ?) instead of Jon Wang. = in 1984, Shawn Brown had released a song called "Rappin' Duke."; this same (exact) song later gets quoted in the Notorious B.I.G.'s song, "Juicy," 10 years later, in 1994 ("Ready to Die": Biggie Small's debut album, by Bad Boy Records). FAFSA meant "Free Application for Federal Student Aid."
Public universities prioritize in-state students. Extra-curricular activities also do matter. I do agree that it's weird that the guy isn't going after white people (who came up with AA policies and legacy policies).
Do you have any idea how hard my Black peoples fought March and writing letters to the Senate Congress and President of America 🇺🇸 to give Black peoples a chance of a education and Affirmative Action was for peoples of color-Mexican Asians Native Americans and other peoples of color. It just shows me how racist peoples are in America 🇺🇸. I will be so happy when President Donald Trump takes back the White House because he is in Black peoples favor. President Trump 2024🙏✝️🛐🇺🇸🛐✅🛡️
Most of the ignorance here is astounding. Admissions is not just on scores. There are written essays, and the types of extra-curriculars you have done!!!! Now in January 2024 the universities released the data: for the Asian that complained that he was rejected, the university showed that other Asian and white students with lower grades than he and lower grades than black students were admitted. Yes, other white and Asians with lower grades were admitted. But Asians thought they could pin all of it on black students even though we already had the very public spectacle of 4 Hollywood wives (white) getting caught bribing an admissions officer. Many of the same elite universities have freely admitted that LEGACY admissions are a huge part of the problem,!!!!! Yes, do you think that George Bush had the brains to get into Yale!!! Do you think that Donald Trump had the brains to get into U Penn!
Just like high scores in pre-draft combine tests don't guarantee success in professional sports, high academic test scores in the current system don't guarantee vocational success. They should test for intangibles like leadership, emotional intelligence, negotiation, conflict resolution, etc, which are areas Asians tend to be weak in but Blacks/Latinos tend to be stronger. At least that way things would be more fair.
I was also gonna ask also how his statement and interview went, he could have completely bombed on it and didn’t impress them. Still however, rejection from UCB was a bit shocking, I would have thought that fallback would have been a safe plan
I always see accolades & articles of kids of Rich Nigerian families, getting accepted to all Ivys. Coincidentally, I also see stories of working class Asian applicants, with a portfolio of academic accolades and perfect SAT scores getting rejected from all of the Ivys....it's clear as day how strong the racial bias in college admissions.
@@robinmoulette718 No they’re not. If anything it’s on par at best. You’re probably referencing a one time out-dated data/study and continue to run with it. Small sample sizes and adjusted down to small cohorts or per capita. Even then, that’s not always true. Also you’re so full of it, on another comment thread you mentioned that Asians are robotic and that they emphasize grades over personality because of their "parents" (meanwhile overlooking many factors and cultural nuances/contexts) based on some Asians testimonials. Now you're inferring that Asians don't perform well academically or being out performed lol. Which is it?
@@user-ot2nh8qb7d What do you mean outdated? It's literally apart of the admission census taken last year so either your just finding this out or you already are aware and you're trying to deny it but facts are facts and they don't lie. Nigerian students in recent years are surpassing asians. My father is a dean for a top university and even he talked about this 4 years ago.
@@robinmoulette718 Citations please? Year over year? I’m going to keep it short and simple for you. Ignore race for a moment. So there are Nigerians with perfect SAT scores, GPAs, and other academic stats across the board getting accepted based on those criteria but Asian with similar stats aren’t? Never mind privileged Nigerians from well to do families (even some with maids back home) compared to Asians with those stats that don’t have those privileges and are refugees? What does that say? What message is that sending? I’ve met plenty of Nigerian students and colleagues, they don’t inherently perform better or worse over-all compared to their Asian counterparts.
Thanks for sharing this video!. My general high level observation and personal opinion is that this comes down to basic economics of supply and demand. There are simply too many supply of top Asian students and limited top national college admission spots availability! All top colleges have DIVERSITY and First Generation as their admission's top criteria. Since most of Asians emphasize on education, there are simply too much supply of qualified Asian top students and most of them are not First Generation, hence, we see a lot of qualified top Asian students simply get rejected from these top colleges. Personally, I believe admission should be 100% merit based. But, with these 2 current top admission criterias of DIVERSITY and First Generation, it's a crab shoot for top Asian students to be admitted to top colleges!
I will also add that a high percentage of Asian students go into the s.t.e.m. fields. They need to fill spots in all of their departments. They can’t have a student body or 50% of the students are in s.t.em. fields. We had auditions for our theater program it was hard to find an Asian student. White, Latino and black students tend to spread out across majors. Also, Legacy students were 25% of our students and some schools its higher than 30%. You can get rid of affirmative action, but that’s only gonna take it up a couple of points. They’re just trying to put a cap on Asian students. There are so many in s.t.e.m. and not enough in other fields. By the way, they’re still looking for that one Asian student in the theater program. 😂
HIS energy and personality is lacking especially if they want some diversity he seems as though he would be to himself and not participate it was something about him personally. He should have did his homework. Obvious test scores just don't get you in to an Ivy league. He was upset and had to blame somebody instead of the right reason he didn't get in!
@Oscar42o his 1590 and 4.4 gpa ain't that impressive, and neither is quizbowl. I was also an academic decathlon champ similar to quizbowl, 4.8 weighted unlike his 4.4, and I scored 2390 out of 2400. And he does sound robotic, like me in the past before I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs like weed to lower my autism and grey matter. I wouldnt have accepted him or myself.
True but it's not just ONE Asian getting rejected with stellar credentials. If you took away race names and labeled them race W, X, Y, Z and ran the statistics, you would clearly see there's some form of discrimination against Asian students, not just ONE person.
Well, if Asian Americans don't know, they are accepted to the folks' school more than any other minorities. It's good. Affirmative Actiom is over so people can stop complaining. No job will have to look at skin but merrit. Black people fought for the Civil Rights bill and Title VI that benefit others who were then allowed to arrive in America. I see every one seem to focus on their own group here and not unite.
@@hyewonderfull "how good you are" what does that mean exactly? Does it not measure aptitude? Your ability to solve problems? Math? reading comprehension?
No idea, it's been found that standardized tests generally are not indicative of a student's success. Lots of folks are great test takers, but bad students.
No, Asian Americans do not have "mixed views" on racial preferences for college admissions. Large majorities of Indian (77%), Chinese (76%), Filipino (76%), Vietnamese (76%), Korean (72%) and Japanese (70%) Americans are all opposed. Lawrence Bacow, Harvard’s president, himself has said on the record that "eliminating race as a factor would make it more challenging for the school to create a diverse student body." Why? Because most blacks and Latinos are not good enough to get in on their own merits. *Everyone* knows this, so stop gaslighting people.
"Not good enough" by your standards. The Harvard president disagrees, and was arguing for his school to continue to be able to consider race among many different factors when choosing their student bodies. He'd have said the same if someone sued to make it illegal for schools to consider student essays and extra-curricular activities in admissions decisions. However, it's doubtful that rejected applicants would file suit on that basis, because they're primarily just focused on race and indignant than an "inferior" student was admitted in place of them.
Black and Latino students are "not good enough to get in on their own merits" because their neighborhoods are consistently overly policed, while simultaneously being fod deserts with dogshit schools. These kids are in situations where their parents are living paycheck to paycheck, often living with grandparents and unable to attend/afford the test prep, extracurricular activities of wealthy whites and East Asian. What's often papered over is that "Asian" is extremely broad. A lot of Chinese, Japanese, or Indian Asian parents being asked are well-educated and wealthy immigrants. Simultaneously the poorest Asian groups are looked over. And guess what? Their educational attainment is actually similar to their black and hispanic peers. Turns out being poor makes it really difficult to get a good enough education to enter Harvard.
can someone explain to me why asian people are still not happy ? i thought the affirmative action was reducing the amount of potential doctors in the USA. why was that action even created in the 1st place ? and who created it ?
Firstly, affirmative action is no longer serving the people that it initially set out to serve. Non-Asian minorities just know how to game the system in their favour. So if that’s the case, affirmative action has gotta go. Secondly, to box Asians into this robotic emotionless stereotypes, is prejudicial and discriminatory in itself. That goes against everything they are trying to fight against. He should bring the fight to not only Blacks and Latinos (who are absolutely quiet about it because it benefits them mostly) but white people too, who are the main orchestrators behind it all. Lastly, the death of meritocracy (from a country that lauded itself on “meritocracy”) will be the death of a nation already on the decline. College applications should be nameless, faceless, raceless, and perhaps based on socioeconomic status too. What is there to be afraid of? That is as fair as it comes. Unless you don’t want to be fair… Edit: More on a macro scale, the rise and advancement of China today, and Asia by and large, perfectly exemplifies this. Take care of your own community/people first and those down with you. Outsiders have to prove themselves and their worth. It’s really that simple. The whole liberal and conservative stance are just Trojan Horses.
It's funny that you say blacks and hispanics and whites keep quiet when it benefits them, When historically asians have been very quiet about many of the things that have gone on in the U.S. You guys don't even vote in high numbers so please stop pretending you care about what's going on in colleges. If you care now it's because for the past 3 years there has been a spotlight on your community and you're feeling it. Isn't that what asian people tell their kids to do??? Keep your head down,stay quiet, and mind your business....So why is it a problem when others do the same when issues arise in your community???
You are operating on many falsehoods, one of which is that the United States was ever a meritocracy. It never was. It never will be. The country started as a racist ethnostate that did its damnedest to exterminate anyone that wasn't Anglosaxon. What we are now is an oligarchy pretending to be a democratic representative republic.
To play devils advocate.... from what i hear about how hard it is to get into Chinese colleges and universities i would say his chances of entering an institution of higher education are higher in the US still.
My understanding is every applicant is competing against applicants from the same school to get into any specific university. While SAT 1590 and GPA 4.6 sound impressive but how does that compared to the elite students at his high school? That's what matters to admission officers.
GPA 4.65 on a 5.0 scale equals to 3.72 on a 4.0 scale!!! GPA 3.72 on a 4.0 scale is way too low for Harvard !!!! Should be rejected without a second thought!!!!
I think this has more to do with colleges preferring the higher tuition of foreign students over citizens. If the government would increase funding to public universities, they wouldn’t have to do this. Also, public universities prefer to admit poorer people over middle class (or higher) because there’s an assumption that the parents can afford the tuition of private universities.
A little story. This takes place in the early 1990s. A friend of the family (Filipina decent) applied to NYU. She was top 25% of her class. She did have a good SAT score. She put down Asian on the application. She got rejected. My dad told her to reapply and put down Pacific Islander. She did and got accepted. Back then Pacific Islander and Asian were different categories. I got in college using military veteran status. I'm a first generation immigrant (Japanese-Chinese decent born in the Philippines) that enlisted in the Army. I got in the Army ROTC program in college. The military route got me in.
It's annoying when you guys speak over each other and not allow, especially your guest, to speak. Candice Owens had a debate on this affirmative action with another Dr. on Dr. Phil. What she was trying to point out about the flaws in the affirmative action completely went over the Dr's head lol.
People should be picked on merit. Do you think all the students selected for Harvard had great personalities. Y’all seem to have a lot of hate on Jon for some reason
@@neetea2 What about legacy admissions? Get rid of unfair practises of AA and legacy admissions too. People bringing up legacy admissions thinking they just did something there with that. My guess is they’re trying to deflect because they can no longer defend how AA is being abused. Additionally, just because you disagree with how AA is being implemented and used, doesn’t mean you’re down with legacy admissions. I don't know where people get that silly idea from.
And they’re committing another form of racism in which the victims are unlikely to speak out, protest, or riot. Even worse the Fung Bros then try to make fun of the victims for being “uncool”. Hey Bros, other minority groups aren’t giving you any props or think you’re cool, so drop your act.
Nah. Two of those schools dont even have affirmative action. Asian people are massively over represented at all the schools he applied for. He just wasnt as competitive with other Asian applicants.
The truth is elite colleges allow people who would succeed with or without attending the college. If he had what it takes he would have shrugged and built the next Microsoft.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](/img/tr.png)
Affirmative Action would be better if it were class-based, race-blind ... that way, black and latino students would still be covered but expanded to include disadvantaged Asian groups (e.g., Hmong in MN), Appalachian whites, etc.
Absolutely. It would protect it from bad-faith attacks while also making sure the educational attainment goes to people where it will make the most impact. Breaking generational poverty is extremely important.
I disagree. Affirmative Action should be abolished completely because it is discriminating against Asian Americans. According to NYT, Asian Americans have to score 140 points higher than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics and 450 points higher than blacks in order to have the same chance of entering into Ivy Leagues. Diversity should not be prioritized over performance and merit. If Asians are generally performing better than other racial groups and more of them get into top schools as a result, then so be it. Don't sacrifice the potential of these top-performing students just so you can virtue signal about how you are inclusive towards people of all races
Totally agree. We can’t generalize by race like the model minority myth does, which says all Asians are from privileged backgrounds who can achieve a certain level in academics.
Prepare to be attacked for that sensible opinion.
Hmm… interesting idea. First time I’ve read an alternative solution to the affirmative action idea so that it can still help those who need it instead of totally dismantling it. I’m not going to watch this full video but I hope the Fung Bros point out that statistically speaking Affirmative Action has helped white women the most. So, there’s definitely a need to reform AA so that it has more impact on traditionally disadvantaged groups.
PS. I’m Chinese American who attended one of the lowest ranking high schools in my district. I was salutatorian of my class and got into UC Berkeley. The valedictorian from the year prior was also Chinese American but was rejected from UC Berkeley. However, without knowing what my schoolmate’s college application looked like, it’s hard to say why he was rejected and I was accepted. It’s not just about scores and grades. A white woman told me in middle school that at schools like UC Berkeley, I would not be considered a minority so I needed to be well rounded and stand out in other ways. I’m nobody special and I have an average white collar job, so in the grand scheme of things, it’s not where you go to college but what you make of it.
This will affect the Asian community very badly. He got played. Also he could have some other issues. Check his mental state. Thank good there are HSBC where blacks can go to.
Legacy admissions policy are the issue. The African American students are under represented at all 6 to universities he applied to. No research was done….
Wait till these Asian American kids learn about the bamboo ceiling and western office politics. Affirmative action is a small hurdle compared to competing against Yt people for promotions in the USA.
Great point. The bamboo ceiling, like the model minority myth is a huge issue. We need more people standing up for the Asian community because historically, the absence of that voice is what contributed to these harmful stereotypes and disadvantages.
@@wamyy5 Whos is going to stand up for the Asian community in these jobs to help defeat the bamboo ceiling in these workplaces? The European descended folks who have a vested interest in ensuring their own are elevated above all others? The Black and Hispanic people that never managed to get the education needed to get that job in the first place due to Asian arguing against efforts to help the disadvantaged?
Who?
There are many Asian American CEO's like Hock Tan, Jensen Huang to name a few running Fortune 500 companies. Lets not increase hate in this world please.
@@yashpatel261 There's 13/500.... You also named 2 CEOs that founded their companies, not risen thru the ranks. All the Ivy league Asians on the east coast that stay in the east coast metro markets, 10-20 yrs. into their careers...yikes
@@yashpatel261you're Indian and will never be accepted by whites. I've seen some Indians have that delusion just because they married a lower status white woman, and they buy into how people act to be socially acceptable.
He got rejected from many schools from California schools that have no affirmative action. UC Berkeley is mostly Asian and so is Cal Tech.
Right. Asians go hard, and it’s basically strong asians competing against other strong asians. Getting rejected then wondering why? Bro you’re competing in the hardest college bracket bro!
People with Asian ancestry are the second highest admitted to most schools after European ancestry
Most times more than twice as much as other groups
Actually, people with Asian and European ancestry are accepted at the same rate at Stanford and caltech
there more people with Asian ancestry admitted to MIT and Carnegie melon than any other group, Including European descent
Really
Jon Wang must not be very good at math because the statistics are not in his favor
Unless he’s trying to say that there shouldn’t be any people of African or Latin ancestry in these schools
Guy needs to get it together.... He's up against Legacy students, Athletes, Family of Donors, Staff or Professors. He's also up against other valedictorians or people with just as great or better scores. Perhaps it's his persona.
Why don’t they address legacy admission bias?
Shh, can't address the large, rich, elephant in the room.
@@RicochetForce large rich and usually white
They already are addressing it now
Because it was easier to attack affirmative action and he most likely had no idea it was even a thing
Cowardice mate
No one is addressing that AA is used to ensure admission of WOMEN as well. No one looked at the stats of how many women are in school, based on goals to include women in university. AA was established to legally stop pervasive and historical discrimination and exclusion of Black Americans (descendants of those who were trafficked, enslaved, tortured, and systematically oppressed until 1970’s) and women (including White Women). I bet the largest group that has benefited from AA is White women. If the true issue is concern that less qualified people are getting in, based on AA, then why isn’t anyone looking at the admission practices relating to women? My guess is that they are too afraid of the backlash and went for historic underclass instead. People forget that AA is trying to fix problems that were created by this country. Ignoring the root cause of the issue and justifying continued oppression is a return to status quo for America. We reap what we sow.
I appreciate everyone's take on this topic. As a current student, I loved this discussion. Most schools, especially Ivy League schools, don't use affirmative action in their selection process. California has actually banned it. Also, affirmative action has benefited yt women more than it has benefited any minority group. Lastly, just because a person gets an amazing score on their SAT doesn't mean they excelled in other aspects of their life. It could be that he was up against students who had a much more extensive extracurricular list than he did, students who were more personable and better speakers, or students who exuded better leadership skills than he did. Getting a great score doesn't mean you are a great leader, it just means you studied. Ultimately, legacy kids make up over 30% of Ivy League admissions...he's attacking the wrong group of people, which speaks for his mindset.
30% legacy admission that crazy !!!
Oh yeah, clearly all he did was “study”. It’s not like studying is all that important in attempting to get admitted to schools where you study even more. If studying and education isn’t what this is all about, then don’t call it “higher education”. Call it what it is then, a snobby country club.
Also check your own bias. You don’t even know Jon Wang, how do you presume to say he’s not a good speaker (based on that 10 sec sound bite?), or that he has no personality? How would Harvard admissions know that? You know a very damming piece of evidence in the Supreme Court case was in fact Harvard AO’s assigning low personality scores to Asian students they haven’t even interviewed yet, just straight off the bat from seeing their last names.
@@edmundlee4087 Out of all things I said, you laser focused on a hypothetical point I made? You are correct to say Higher education is higher education for a reason, but if one wants to go to one of the most elite schools in the country, one needs to show that they are capable of more than being book smart, unless you're a legacy kid. There are many people in the world who are book smart.
In my opinion, Ivy league schools are likened to country clubs. Why do so many people want to go to Ivy league schools? It's not only because these schools have amazing professors, but also because it increases one's chances of leveling up financially and socially. You get the opportunity to rub elbows with people who can potentially help advance your life, similar to a country club. If higher education is all one cares about, there are amazing schools with amazing curriculum and highly accomplished professors that aren't Ivy league. What's wrong with attending those?
@@edmundlee4087Just studying isn’t enough when everyone has good grades.
This topic is why my Stanford rejection video blew up - I only discussed affirmative action as a possibility, but there are enough people who know that race indeed plays a large factor, even though scores aren’t everything. After getting hundreds of comments about me being rejected because of the color of my skin, I mustered up the courage to make my latest YT video that speaks up for the Asian community. Andrew and David, you are the biggest source of my inspiration to finally release that video. Thank you for spreading awareness for Asians ❤
Why are legacy admissions, students admitted because they are from under-represented states like West Virginia, students of university benefactors, and the MANY students who are admitted with lower scores, for reasons other than ethnicity: those types of admissions are never the focus or attacked. Why is it that when a talented student is rejected from an educational program, some people immediately and exclusively focus their ire on (mainly, black) students who many presume must not be qualified to matriculate in that program?
@@sweetssweet1374 First off, all your questions are answered in my video - I dive into why people care so much more about fighting affirmative action than legacy. Secondly, I also don’t think legacy is fair. I cannot say the exact percentage, but like Andrew, I think we can’t really blame colleges for letting in a kid whose parents contributed a ton to the school. Finally, I think what triggers a lot of people when others question affirmative action is the idea that those in opposition think a black/brown kid took someone else’s spot and therefore they’re against those kids. This is a polarized view that can only create more conflict rather than trying to work toward a solution, because the questioning of affirmative action is just concerning whether it’s right to disadvantage someone based on the color of their skin. It goes against MLK’s quote. Thanks for replying to my comment and keeping the valuable discussion going!
Girl do you even realize that the reason legacy admission is even a thing is because they wanted to limit je wish and asian students at Elite schools?? "we can’t really blame colleges for letting in a kid whose parents contributed " Well the thing is.. ya'll can! There are plenty of schools in the US that don't provide preferential treatment to legacy kids such as the UC schools (which btw also don't have affirmative action). MIT and Caltech also don't consider legacy status. So it is VERY possible for ya'll to also fight with us to eradicate legacy admissions as it is not a necessity yet ya'll still wanna bring us brown and black people down. If ya'll wanna take down something that is actually founded on a basis of disc rimination then why not target legacy admissions?? Hmmm.
@@wamyy5 If we can't blame colleges for letting in a kid because her or his parents matriculated at the school, how can we turn around and blame colleges for letting in a kid whose diverse background is seen as enriching or beneficial to the school in some way? Either both are wrong, or neither is. Frankly, schools use lots of factors to determine which students will be offered a slot. It is racist to focus almost exclusively on affirmative action when applicants are angry at not having received a slot. Yet have almost no focus on the tuba player from West Virginia who had lower test scores and GPA, and was offered a slot due to talent and geographic diversity.
The target is primarily black students, which is suspect. There's a highly rated comment here stating just that: the person's belief (that elite universities don't share) that black and brown students do not have what it takes to compete on merit. Is it really mysterious that elite institutions prefer to use their own years of admissions experience and empirical data to maintain their academies, rather than simplistic and incorrect views about using test scores to exclusively define their student bodies? It makes perfect sense to me, and is why these institutions continue to be regarded as some of the best in the world. Thank you for the debate as well.
Race does play a huge factor, but not in the way you think. They just don’t want a bunch of Asians there. And I wish the Asian community had the courage to talk about why. I believe black students only make up 5% of a school like Harvard. However, Legacy brats are more than a quarter. So to just blame it on the affirmative action is kind of ridiculous. You can scapegoat affirmative action all you want but those white legacy kids aren’t going anywhere. Not all of these Legacy brats are rich folks. Some of them are just everyday lawyers who parents went there. I know I’m going to ruffle some feathers for saying this, but a lot of this is about money. Contributing alumni are very big part of the endowment of these large institutions. This is also about programs, Asian students have a tendency to pack themselves in S.T.E.M. fields but White , Latino and Black students are kind of spread out over professions. If you just fill the school with Asians, you’re barely gonna have any students in other fields. You’re gonna have 5000 students in S.T.E.M. and what 50 students in education 50 students in Poli Sci and 50 students in the arts. The whole world knows that most Asian parents pressure their kids to go into the S.T.E.M. fields. However, White, Latino and Black parents are more likely to support their kids going into the arts. These Ivy League schools, pride themselves on having a footprint across society. They want that footprint to be large, in every profession on the planet. They get millions of dollars from Hollywood actors to support their arts program, and they need to spend that money and fill those slots in the art department with students. So go ahead get rid of affirmative action, you’re only gonna see a change in a couple of percentage points. Asian students are gonna have to deal with this lack of diversity in their choice of a major and these legacy kids. I’m sure my words may irritate a few people, but I feel that this is a very complex situation that’s deals with a lot of things that may make the Asian community uncomfortable. Last, but not least, my college professor went to Harvard, and if I repeated what she told me, you guys might dox men and have somebody show up to my house and murder me. To put it plain and simple they’re trying to put a cap on the number of Asians at these schools .
I say get rid of those damn legacy admissions. By the way, white women have benefited more from affirmative action than anybody. As an African American, I appreciate your intelligent discussion. Keep up the good work.
Berkeley didn't have AA when he applied. They just didn't want him there.
Also, comedian was valid
1st off: Alvin is hilarious in this! 2nd off: We as asians need to work on being well rounded people. I work at a law firm and the asians at the firm are smarter and harder working than everyone else but are not assertive and don't do well at parties and social functions. That's not the type of personality that is going to lead to promotions to leadership positions. Strong academics can only get you so far in life.
We don't know about his personal statements and other factors. Affirmative action helps Asians which isn't being said - for many Southeastern Asians such as Vietnamese/Cambodian/Laotian/Thai, Filipinos, Pacific Islanders, other non-Chinese Asians - immigrant and working class kids. It gives them a chance versus most wealthier and more established Chinese who were provided more. This kid used golf for example - a pretty expensive sport to support. I doubt his life adversities matched other applicants including non-Chinese Asians as well. Why isn't this said?
I agree. You would have a stronger point IF affirmative action actually helped SEA and PI much in the same way it had helped other non-Asian minorities. But it doesn’t, that’s the problem too. I’m all for AA if it actually helps to serve those people, but it doesn’t most of the time. People talk about Blacks and Hispanics all the time, but everyone rarely talks about Native Americans/First Nations/Indigenous people who arguably are even more invisible (those are the people I have no problem where AA can step in to assist). But people have to prove without a doubt all the ways in which they are not privileged. But that is a slippery slope as it devolves into the oppression olympics. At some point you can only make so much excuses before it becomes played out too and a meme. Also, aside from the obvious and basic White people, where do Jewish people factor in all of this? Do they suffer the same boxed in opportunities? Do they play all sides? Do they get to decide who is admitted, including their own? What challenges do they face, or privileges do they benefit from in all of this?
@@user-ot2nh8qb7d It's interesting that you mentioned jewish people bc they are the reason Legacy admission is a thing. In the 1920's Elite universities used legacy admissions to maintain spots for Anglo-Protestants amid fears that Jews, Catholics, and Asians were increasingly taking spots at the schools.
VIETNAMESE HAS NOTHING TO THIS . WE ARE CULTURALLY EAST ASIAN AND NO DIFFERENT THAN CHINESE OR KOREANS IN TERMS OF CULTURE
Beyond grades, the admission committee wants to see that you're an "interesting" person to have in the school. Trying to get into a school using a standard formula like grades wouldn't help with the "interesting" test.
Correct.
There was an admissions officer a while back that laid out the fact that even limiting it to perfect and near perfect GPA and test exam scores there are 10x more applicants than there are slots at all elite schools COMBINED.
So they have to use other things to gauge who to let in.
Exactly, his personality seems vanilla and bland. He didn’t stand out. Neeext!
@@RicochetForcethat would be an acceptable excuse except for the fact that many black applicants get in with far less.
@@yelnatsch517 Evidence? There are not even that many black students in elected universities.
@@hannah60000 you’re joking right? There are literally thousands. The percentage would be smaller than other races, but there are plenty of examples.
My son was in the Duke Tip program since 8th grade due to not missing any problems on math standardized testing in 7th grade. He made all a As up to 10th grade. He made around 1300 in SAT in 2021. But that year, Duke had 40000 freshman applicants. They took 1400 freshmen. I was very proud of my son. We overcame homelessness, Seizures and and he got his grades back up, and he still got an interview at Duke. To be fair, the Validictorian had a 4.8..... GPA in his high school in Virginia as she had taken college classes and AP classes while in high school. I think he has points, but more than likely, they had small class and many high achieving scholars. The key is did he get accepted or did he get accepted with scholarships? I'm from GA, and GA Tech is a fantastic school just don't tell the bumblebees I said that. I am a bulldog for life.
I also got rejected from most of the top tier ivy league schools with a 1560 SAT I, and 3 800/800 SAT II (6360/6400 combined) and 4.4 GPA but did make it into UCs. I said f that and became a reggaeton rapper/singer
Let’s be honest, you scoring that well is a good proxy that you’ll be successful regardless if you got the education or pursued something else.
I think the admission committee would have liked your background as a raggaeton rapper/singer. That makes you more interesting than someone who just demonstrates academics. This should have been in your application if you did not include it.
@@henrytep8884 Yes, it's true. I think more asians need to look outside the traditonal system, as business owners and entrepreneurs.
@@ktan8 agreed I did rap in high school and didn’t include it. I didn’t take it seriously until now. More Asians need to do arts and include that - totally agree
Ivy leagues are soooo passé
Most Ivy Leagues look at other things besides test scores. Not only that but among Ivy league scores, his weren't all that great anyways. Can't blame it on Affirmative Action when multiple of the schools that he applied to, don't even use AA in the process of choosing students. His extracurricular probably sucked as well as his essay. Plus legacy students are a bigger issue than Affirmative Action.
what's your ivy league scores? Why are you making assumptions?
@@Oscar42ohis 1590 and 4.4 gpa ain't that impressive, and neither is quizbowl. I was also an academic decathlon champ similar to quizbowl, 4.8 weighted unlike his 4.4, and I scored 2390 out of 2400. And he does sound robotic, like me in the past before I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs like weed to lower my autism and grey matter. I wouldnt have accepted him or myself.
John is acting very entitled. Just because you got a perfect test score and good gpa doesnt mean you should be auto accepted. Other factors do play a role, like community service, volunteering, and more. Dude should go ask the nurses and Doctors.
Why do you assume he has no personality ? Why do you assume he is robotic ? There is a little bit of self-racism going on here especially with the Comedian trying to look cool and "non-Asian". There should be no question John Wang was discriminated against. As for whether that's a death sentence for his future, of course not. His future is up to him to define and that's fine to give him the encouragement to pursue his dreams regardless of what college he lands in. My personal opinion is that for the sake of peace and stability, we need to continue to have affirmative action programs at colleges. However, let's not find ways to denigrate Asian people who are deserving but left out.
Asians shouldn't need to try to be "cool", "part of the crowd", "great personality", "super jock" etc. These are exactly the attributes (or lack thereof) that are thrown subjectively at us as a negative so why are we subscribing to these as model attributes ? Just be yourself and yes find passion and interests outside of school curriculum is good. But the discussion you guys are doing skews much more to the former. You guys are great and I enjoy your shows but be aware of that.
Nah, they making fun of him for blaming Affirmative Action (AA) when he completely neglected the College Scandal with Nepo-babies or Legacies. Sure, we can say AA is unfair but white women are also labeled "minorities" and use it more. He is trying to get brownie points from the white-made system that doesn't want him there. And Harvard doesn't use AA, BTW.
Completely agree. These hosts r too influenced by wokeness.
A lot of the schools he applied to are UC schools which don't even have affirmative action so maybe he is just boring idk!
If that s the only kind of jokes he can come up with, he should be very concerned with his choice of a job lol
@@adrianchan5799"wokeness" 🤓
because he’s boring and he has no extra curricular activities… he can be mad about legacy students getting in but no he chose to go the victim route when he’s no victim🤣🤣
Agree--he does come across as "less than pleasant". A little humility might be in order here..
He DID have lots of extra-curriculars. He was in a tough no-win situation because it's impossible to protest anything without looking "less than pleasant".
“He’s like a Reddit moderator” that killed me 🤣
Love how Alvin made them panic a little at the start "HE IS A COMEDIAN! ALVIN IS A COMEDIAN! THESE ARE JOKES!"😂
The lack of meritocracy based advancement in the US is going to be our downfall, when we compete against countries who advance people based on merit. The most capable people need to rise to the top for a country to compete in a technological world.
We've never been in a meritocracy. Knock this off.
Even legacy BS was created in the 1920s when Jewish and Asian students were doing better than native White Americans.
The lack of fertility rate will probably be the downfall of those “meritocracy” nations before the USA actually fails due to some arbitrary meritocracy standard you think is fundamentally important to a nation’s success.
"meritocracy" is as real as the Easter bunny
@@Based_Proletariat If you had a brain tumor, would you want the surgeon to have been advanced due to merit or quotas?
@@henrytep8884 The USA is already failing due to its lack of ability to compete, not because of its lack of fertility, but rather, due to its paucity of STEM graduates.
This comes down to meritocracy vs utilitarianism.
Do you want colleges to ONLY allow entry to the best and brightest? Congratulations, your colleges will be filled only with those two can afford all the best private schools, test prep, cram schools, extracurricular activities. This largely ensures higher education becomes the purview of the wealthy and powerful.
Do you want colleges that reflect the demographics of your nation and seek to break cycles of poverty so more people are educated overall? Congratulations, the limited slots in education now go to people who otherwise never would've made it into that institution while excellent students see their effort rewarded with... nothing.
Go look at what happened when California helped Black and Hispanic demographics (massive chunks of the state population) break cycles of poverty by opening the doors to higher education to them. Republicans rallied angry Asian parents and used them as a cudgel to destroy that proposition, and the state's rates of Black and Hispanic educational attainment have never recovered. Ever since then the right wing in this country has consistently used Asians as the perfect response to other demographics requesting aid or support.
College should be for intelligent people not idiots. Race should not matter.
No, it comes down to whether race should be a factor in admission. Meritocracy vs mild discrimination. Why do you think California banned affirmative action? Do you want your Doctors to be people who earned their degree on equal terms or should we pity people that aren't as gifted and pretend they are equally deserving.
@@Ben-lh7jg Re-read my post again.
This entire thing is ultimately whether our society wants higher education to be a meritocracy or something more representative and useful to society as a whole.
@@RicochetForce No need to re-read, what you are comparing is meritocracy vs mild discrimination. Using race as a factor to accept people is not useful to society, its discrimination and therefore harmful. Again, why do you think California banned it?
@@RicochetForce Also, do you support affirmative action for men? Women are starting to make up larger shares of student populations so would you support universities accepting a lower test scoring man over a higher test scoring woman for the sake of utilitarianism? I guess thats fair, right? If women want to go to college they have to work a little bit harder for it than a man because diversity is more important than pure meritocracy.
Although Asian Americans do not receive benefits from Affirmative Action, at most top schools Asians are the second highest in the demographics behind white people despite only making up about 7% of American citizens. In general, Latinx and black communities are under resourced, leading to a bad education. People in those communities need some type of advantage to break the cycle of being at the bottom of society.
If everything was blind admissions, only students who have gone to schools and grew up in communities with great opportunities and role models would get in, further keeping underrepresented communities at the bottom.
The idea of “meritocracy” is to prevent underrepresented communities from attempting to get to the same level as middle to upper class communities (which normally consist of majority white Americans and some Asian American).
i thought his score was impressive until i read a bout a 17yr old black kid who scored a 1600 lol
We should focus on other issues like history The Los Angeles Chinese massacre of 1871. Approximately 500 Hispanic Americans attacked, harassed, robbed, and murdered the ethnic Chinese residents in what is today referred to as the old Chinatown. And the Torreón chinatown massacre
Watsonville riots was a period of racial violence that took place in Watsonville, California, from January 19 to 23, 1930. Involving violent assaults on Filipino American farm workers by local residents
Those murders and perpetrators were eventually let go on legal technicality. No justice no peace
Why did they do that ?
No offense, but undergraduate is overrated; extension of highschool at this point. It’s saturated and overpriced. Focus on graduate school. Go to Ivy League or Stanford for grad school, less concerned of affirmative action drama.
Absolutely.
Thank you Bro for speaking on this subject we still dont unstand why they love destroying Black People
Spiderman across the spiderverse gave a great examples of this and call it out indirectly. If it's not a narrative they want to hear, they'll either change it or reject it.
I'm going to add a comment I made on this topic on a different channel. Take it however way you want.
A black woman developed the COVID vaccine: Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett. Elite institutions are always looking for moneymakers, i.e., people who will create something that can be commercialized. Black people are the true inventors and creators. Black people are the engines of American society, some parts good and other parts bad.
It's like Latino Americans now saying they are about to run Hip Hop. They may have some influence, but it is black people who make it what it is, some parts good and other parts bad.
Asian Americans will have to do more than merely put up numbers. They will have to bring in money to these institutions. This is why Harvard grabbed Dr. Corbett because they knew that there will be grants and federal funding for decades to come.
That's what Asian Americans do not understand. Asians will attend these elites but only the ones who bring in money, i.e., international students. Great video. New subscriber.
"Chop it off, Jon" lmao
Universities are businesses first. They accept a collection of students that will statistically make their school the most money and prestige. If you view universities as anything other than businesses first, disappointment and misunderstanding is very possible.
I didn’t have the best SAT score nor GPA. However, I was happy to be accepted by two state universities and one big university.
As for this man, it’s nothing personal. Besides, universities look for everything other than SATs and GPAs like after school activities, personalities and feedback.
What makes u think this guy didn't have other areas covered? Is that some casual racism?
@@richardchu3916 Why are you pulling the race card when even other asians admit that their parents don't care about their personality but rather their grades? Thus making them robots😂
@@richardchu3916 well for one, he applied to a lot of UC schools which don't even have Affirmative Action. They banned it in the 90's. So yeah maybe John Wang or whaveter is just boring! idk!
@@robinmoulette718 So some "other asians" represents all Asians now? Do all black and latino gangbangers represents all black and latino people?
You're a waste of space then. Give it to people who are more qualified that your dumbass.
Maybe these students aren’t getting in, because they’re boring. I see tons of other Asians students at prestigious schools. So perhaps, those that aren’t getting in just aren’t competitive and interesting enough for the university’s culture. You don’t get everything you want, especially when you’re trying to fit into predominantly white spaces as a minority.
Here’s the deal with affirmative action
It started with hiring
But people realized that schools were still discriminating
So the people trying to get a job still weren’t able to get the training to do the job…because of discrimination
4.6 GPA might seem to indicate grade inflation and low competition at his secondary school/high school. There's such a wide gap in standards and quality among American secondary schools. Elite preparatory boarding schools in New England like the Phillips Academies (Andover and Exeter) are very competitive in contrast to any suburban public high school. There are also selective public boarding schools like the North Carolina School for Science and Mathematics.
If he comes from a less privileged and competitive secondary school (which I doubt since he mentioned golf as a hobby) resulting in a higher GPA. Then all the more reason for AA to work in his favour as it does for his Black and Hispanic counterparts from similar high schools. But it doesn’t.
A 4.6 GPA may indicate inflation from certain schools; however, the SAT is supposed to be the standard. There is no inflation there. A 1490 SAT score placed him in the 99th percentile of SAT takers.
I'm still wondering how he got rejected to UC Berkeley.
@@dc8201 He got a 1590. Nearly perfect score.
I continue to be amazed by how The Fung Bros will crowbar sports into any topic no matter if it doesn't fit...
I think he should put his big boy pants on and just get a degree. These schools are prestigious bc their graduates went into the world and became powerful, wealthy, highly successful. Go to a basic school, save yourself the money on tuition, get your degree and change the world. Nobody really cares about what school you went too or what your GPA was. It only matters when you do something big, like cure cancer or solve the world hunger problem.
True. On the positive side, employers already know that it's incredibly hard for Asian students to get into the top of the top schools in the most competitive fields even if they have stellar credentials. One could consider the glass half-full or half-empty. The glass-full view is, as you said, Asian students now can go to easier schools, have free time to do outside projects or undergraduate research that help them when they apply for jobs, and employers now know not to judge Asian applicants by what college they went to.
This dude found out that life isn't fair. Pull up the bootstraps and continue to make things happen.
yep. it happens all the time. He would have been admitted if he was YT.
probably. at least now affirmative action has been banned by supreme court. you are about to see a lot more azians in colleges.
@@Ben-lh7jg They threaten spots for YT people. Nearly half their admissions are from legacies, sports, donor relatives and children of staff for Harvard. So they arent going to touch their places.
College admissions board for American colleges and universities may have objective criteria, but the decisions made are often subjective. Get over it. Or apply to elite college overseas (e.g., the UK has some superior schools).
He should try the IV’s in England, Oxbridge, University College,Imperial etc
@@Willow-cw9te exactly. Universities abroad, like in the UK, decide strictly on academic achievement and not by the subjective, squishy stuff that admissions boards want here.
@@birdtj82 great story. You're right -- life is not fair. As the Fung Bros. suggested, some of these kids' parents do them a huge disservice by making them think just academic achievement alone will prepare them for eventual success. Doing everything that you're "supposed to do," does NOT guarantee things will go as you want. Unfortunately, it's not sexy to tell people that a large part of success is family resources and sheer luck.
In any case, I also had a college roommate who paid for school by playing online poker (before it was banned).
He wasn’t admitted because he’s boring, PERIOD
He is just ONE person. There are tons of Asian Americans who DO have personality, who are stereotyped as NOT having personality. Some Asians are the funniest, most creative people if you know them as a friend you would know, but then from the admissions officer looking at their application and seeing their Asian name would automatically ASSUME they have a robot personality due to stereotypes.
bro, what about MIT? There's hundreds of other amazing institutions other than Harvard.
They are the same. The whole universities in US prefer anything other than Asians
1:55 - closed captions (it had said this guy's name: "The Duke," John Wayne ?) instead of Jon Wang. = in 1984, Shawn Brown had released a song called "Rappin' Duke."; this same (exact) song later gets quoted in the Notorious B.I.G.'s song, "Juicy," 10 years later, in 1994 ("Ready to Die": Biggie Small's debut album, by Bad Boy Records). FAFSA meant "Free Application for Federal Student Aid."
LOL! hope he is happy now that his racist campaign has turned against his own community 😂 well done dvmmy boi
Public universities prioritize in-state students. Extra-curricular activities also do matter. I do agree that it's weird that the guy isn't going after white people (who came up with AA policies and legacy policies).
They’re not going to blame white people because then they lose their proximity to whiteness and the ability to network to with the upper middle class.
I am a Latina who frequents your channel. This was a fabulous take on this affirmative action case. Well done, Andrew and David!
Why are u latinas so obsessed with Asian men? What's wrong with white or your own ?
Do you have any idea how hard my Black peoples fought March and writing letters to the Senate Congress and President of America 🇺🇸 to give Black peoples a chance of a education and Affirmative Action was for peoples of color-Mexican Asians Native Americans and other peoples of color. It just shows me how racist peoples are in America 🇺🇸. I will be so happy when President Donald Trump takes back the White House because he is in Black peoples favor. President Trump 2024🙏✝️🛐🇺🇸🛐✅🛡️
@@lakeeshahollisreally?
Most of the ignorance here is astounding. Admissions is not just on scores. There are written essays, and the types of extra-curriculars you have done!!!! Now in January 2024 the universities released the data: for the Asian that complained that he was rejected, the university showed that other Asian and white students with lower grades than he and lower grades than black students were admitted. Yes, other white and Asians with lower grades were admitted. But Asians thought they could pin all of it on black students even though we already had the very public spectacle of 4 Hollywood wives (white) getting caught bribing an admissions officer. Many of the same elite universities have freely admitted that LEGACY admissions are a huge part of the problem,!!!!! Yes, do you think that George Bush had the brains to get into Yale!!! Do you think that Donald Trump had the brains to get into U Penn!
Just like high scores in pre-draft combine tests don't guarantee success in professional sports, high academic test scores in the current system don't guarantee vocational success. They should test for intangibles like leadership, emotional intelligence, negotiation, conflict resolution, etc, which are areas Asians tend to be weak in but Blacks/Latinos tend to be stronger. At least that way things would be more fair.
He got rejected from Ivy League School just like if a girl would rejected him because he's a nerd.😂
Yo that intro slap though “ow” 😂
I was also gonna ask also how his statement and interview went, he could have completely bombed on it and didn’t impress them. Still however, rejection from UCB was a bit shocking, I would have thought that fallback would have been a safe plan
I always see accolades & articles of kids of Rich Nigerian families, getting accepted to all Ivys. Coincidentally, I also see stories of working class Asian applicants, with a portfolio of academic accolades and perfect SAT scores getting rejected from all of the Ivys....it's clear as day how strong the racial bias in college admissions.
How so when more Nigerian students are outpacing Asian students academically?
Okay so? For every one rich nigerian kid at an IVY there's like 15 bird brained white girls with rich families as well.
@@robinmoulette718 No they’re not. If anything it’s on par at best. You’re probably referencing a one time out-dated data/study and continue to run with it. Small sample sizes and adjusted down to small cohorts or per capita. Even then, that’s not always true.
Also you’re so full of it, on another comment thread you mentioned that Asians are robotic and that they emphasize grades over personality because of their "parents" (meanwhile overlooking many factors and cultural nuances/contexts) based on some Asians testimonials. Now you're inferring that Asians don't perform well academically or being out performed lol. Which is it?
@@user-ot2nh8qb7d What do you mean outdated? It's literally apart of the admission census taken last year so either your just finding this out or you already are aware and you're trying to deny it but facts are facts and they don't lie. Nigerian students in recent years are surpassing asians. My father is a dean for a top university and even he talked about this 4 years ago.
@@robinmoulette718 Citations please? Year over year? I’m going to keep it short and simple for you. Ignore race for a moment. So there are Nigerians with perfect SAT scores, GPAs, and other academic stats across the board getting accepted based on those criteria but Asian with similar stats aren’t? Never mind privileged Nigerians from well to do families (even some with maids back home) compared to Asians with those stats that don’t have those privileges and are refugees? What does that say? What message is that sending?
I’ve met plenty of Nigerian students and colleagues, they don’t inherently perform better or worse over-all compared to their Asian counterparts.
The Supreme Court now agrees with this kid, lol great video timing.
Thanks for sharing this video!. My general high level observation and personal opinion is that this comes down to basic economics of supply and demand. There are simply too many supply of top Asian students and limited top national college admission spots availability! All top colleges have DIVERSITY and First Generation as their admission's top criteria. Since most of Asians emphasize on education, there are simply too much supply of qualified Asian top students and most of them are not First Generation, hence, we see a lot of qualified top Asian students simply get rejected from these top colleges. Personally, I believe admission should be 100% merit based. But, with these 2 current top admission criterias of DIVERSITY and First Generation, it's a crab shoot for top Asian students to be admitted to top colleges!
I will also add that a high percentage of Asian students go into the s.t.e.m. fields. They need to fill spots in all of their departments. They can’t have a student body or 50% of the students are in s.t.em. fields. We had auditions for our theater program it was hard to find an Asian student. White, Latino and black students tend to spread out across majors. Also, Legacy students were 25% of our students and some schools its higher than 30%. You can get rid of affirmative action, but that’s only gonna take it up a couple of points. They’re just trying to put a cap on Asian students. There are so many in s.t.e.m. and not enough in other fields. By the way, they’re still looking for that one Asian student in the theater program. 😂
HIS energy and personality is lacking especially if they want some diversity he seems as though he would be to himself and not participate it was something about him personally. He should have did his homework. Obvious test scores just don't get you in to an Ivy league. He was upset and had to blame somebody instead of the right reason he didn't get in!
NBA needs to meet their Asian quota then. No one is complaining about that. Im sure there are many aspiring Vietnamese basketball players.
Exactly. And the team with the diversity hire should start the same with 20 points.... If they truly believe in the way they've structured AA
All this nonsense when there's free Harvard education lectures for free.
@Oscar42o his 1590 and 4.4 gpa ain't that impressive, and neither is quizbowl. I was also an academic decathlon champ similar to quizbowl, 4.8 weighted unlike his 4.4, and I scored 2390 out of 2400. And he does sound robotic, like me in the past before I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs like weed to lower my autism and grey matter. I wouldnt have accepted him or myself.
True but it's not just ONE Asian getting rejected with stellar credentials. If you took away race names and labeled them race W, X, Y, Z and ran the statistics, you would clearly see there's some form of discrimination against Asian students, not just ONE person.
Well, if Asian Americans don't know, they are accepted to the folks' school more than any other minorities. It's good. Affirmative Actiom is over so people can stop complaining. No job will have to look at skin but merrit. Black people fought for the Civil Rights bill and Title VI that benefit others who were then allowed to arrive in America. I see every one seem to focus on their own group here and not unite.
what is the point of standardized test?
To gauge your intelligence
it doesn't measure intelligence. It just measures how good u are at taking that test.
@@hyewonderfull "how good you are" what does that mean exactly? Does it not measure aptitude? Your ability to solve problems? Math? reading comprehension?
No idea, it's been found that standardized tests generally are not indicative of a student's success. Lots of folks are great test takers, but bad students.
@@RicochetForce I don’t know. All the smartest kids in my school got the highest SAT scores.
No, Asian Americans do not have "mixed views" on racial preferences for college admissions. Large majorities of Indian (77%), Chinese (76%), Filipino (76%), Vietnamese (76%), Korean (72%) and Japanese (70%) Americans are all opposed. Lawrence Bacow, Harvard’s president, himself has said on the record that "eliminating race as a factor would make it more challenging for the school to create a diverse student body." Why? Because most blacks and Latinos are not good enough to get in on their own merits. *Everyone* knows this, so stop gaslighting people.
"Not good enough" by your standards. The Harvard president disagrees, and was arguing for his school to continue to be able to consider race among many different factors when choosing their student bodies. He'd have said the same if someone sued to make it illegal for schools to consider student essays and extra-curricular activities in admissions decisions. However, it's doubtful that rejected applicants would file suit on that basis, because they're primarily just focused on race and indignant than an "inferior" student was admitted in place of them.
Black and Latino students are "not good enough to get in on their own merits" because their neighborhoods are consistently overly policed, while simultaneously being fod deserts with dogshit schools. These kids are in situations where their parents are living paycheck to paycheck, often living with grandparents and unable to attend/afford the test prep, extracurricular activities of wealthy whites and East Asian.
What's often papered over is that "Asian" is extremely broad. A lot of Chinese, Japanese, or Indian Asian parents being asked are well-educated and wealthy immigrants. Simultaneously the poorest Asian groups are looked over. And guess what? Their educational attainment is actually similar to their black and hispanic peers. Turns out being poor makes it really difficult to get a good enough education to enter Harvard.
@sweetssweet1374 objectively they are not to standard as they have a higher fail rate. You just need to look at the numbers.
@@aaronmontgomery2055🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ you’re sick
Asians are not naturally smart though
can someone explain to me why asian people are still not happy ?
i thought the affirmative action was reducing the amount of potential doctors in the USA.
why was that action even created in the 1st place ? and who created it ?
Firstly, affirmative action is no longer serving the people that it initially set out to serve. Non-Asian minorities just know how to game the system in their favour. So if that’s the case, affirmative action has gotta go.
Secondly, to box Asians into this robotic emotionless stereotypes, is prejudicial and discriminatory in itself. That goes against everything they are trying to fight against. He should bring the fight to not only Blacks and Latinos (who are absolutely quiet about it because it benefits them mostly) but white people too, who are the main orchestrators behind it all.
Lastly, the death of meritocracy (from a country that lauded itself on “meritocracy”) will be the death of a nation already on the decline.
College applications should be nameless, faceless, raceless, and perhaps based on socioeconomic status too. What is there to be afraid of? That is as fair as it comes. Unless you don’t want to be fair…
Edit: More on a macro scale, the rise and advancement of China today, and Asia by and large, perfectly exemplifies this. Take care of your own community/people first and those down with you. Outsiders have to prove themselves and their worth. It’s really that simple. The whole liberal and conservative stance are just Trojan Horses.
It's funny that you say blacks and hispanics and whites keep quiet when it benefits them, When historically asians have been very quiet about many of the things that have gone on in the U.S. You guys don't even vote in high numbers so please stop pretending you care about what's going on in colleges. If you care now it's because for the past 3 years there has been a spotlight on your community and you're feeling it. Isn't that what asian people tell their kids to do??? Keep your head down,stay quiet, and mind your business....So why is it a problem when others do the same when issues arise in your community???
ya'll realize the people who benefit most from affirmative action is WHITE women.
Well said.
You are operating on many falsehoods, one of which is that the United States was ever a meritocracy.
It never was. It never will be. The country started as a racist ethnostate that did its damnedest to exterminate anyone that wasn't Anglosaxon. What we are now is an oligarchy pretending to be a democratic representative republic.
You're just justifying racial prejudice.
Compared to the other guests you have brought on, Alvin deffo gives insightful and intelligent contributions but he deffo jokes too much lol
To play devils advocate.... from what i hear about how hard it is to get into Chinese colleges and universities i would say his chances of entering an institution of higher education are higher in the US still.
My understanding is every applicant is competing against applicants from the same school to get into any specific university. While SAT 1590 and GPA 4.6 sound impressive but how does that compared to the elite students at his high school? That's what matters to admission officers.
I am new here and love you guys, subscribing.
What percentage of admissions are legacy admissions?
This man got the whitest name then checked Asian on the application 😅
GPA 4.65 on a 5.0 scale equals to 3.72 on a 4.0 scale!!!
GPA 3.72 on a 4.0 scale is way too low for Harvard !!!! Should be rejected without a second thought!!!!
That’s what I thought. Don’t apply for Ivy Leagues if your CGPA is not 3.9-4.0 out of 4.0.
There may be some point for Jon Wang to complian.
I bet this grading going come into effect in Canada and Australia universities soon
Great conversation.
I think this has more to do with colleges preferring the higher tuition of foreign students over citizens. If the government would increase funding to public universities, they wouldn’t have to do this. Also, public universities prefer to admit poorer people over middle class (or higher) because there’s an assumption that the parents can afford the tuition of private universities.
A little story. This takes place in the early 1990s. A friend of the family (Filipina decent) applied to NYU. She was top 25% of her class. She did have a good SAT score. She put down Asian on the application. She got rejected. My dad told her to reapply and put down Pacific Islander. She did and got accepted. Back then Pacific Islander and Asian were different categories. I got in college using military veteran status. I'm a first generation immigrant (Japanese-Chinese decent born in the Philippines) that enlisted in the Army. I got in the Army ROTC program in college. The military route got me in.
I like Andrew's comment was awesome! "College admissions start to feel like Oppression Olympics"
I can't tell if Alvin is joking or if Alvin is actually self-racist
He sounds so Anti-white, He should rethink about his decision of being a Comedian😂😂😂
Yea dude lame AF get him off the show
He’s a comedian 😂
Even if it was a joke there's underlining racism there. He's very American
@@Godzilladad why is he not funny at all?
It's annoying when you guys speak over each other and not allow, especially your guest, to speak.
Candice Owens had a debate on this affirmative action with another Dr. on Dr. Phil. What she was trying to point out about the flaws in the affirmative action completely went over the Dr's head lol.
It’s all about legacy bias, up to 15% of the applicants are. But everyone needs the usual suspects !!!
40% of new admissions is legacy based. 2024 Asian admissions are down.
Isn't there a classroom limit as well
Test score phenomenon == the Flynn effect, same effect that explains iq across the globe rising.
People should be picked on merit. Do you think all the students selected for Harvard had great personalities. Y’all seem to have a lot of hate on Jon for some reason
What about legacy admissions?
@@neetea2 What about legacy admissions? Get rid of unfair practises of AA and legacy admissions too. People bringing up legacy admissions thinking they just did something there with that. My guess is they’re trying to deflect because they can no longer defend how AA is being abused.
Additionally, just because you disagree with how AA is being implemented and used, doesn’t mean you’re down with legacy admissions. I don't know where people get that silly idea from.
Think about it what if most 9f the Asians applied had the same or better scores who do you choose? It has to be more than scores.
Side note: A person mentioned this before, why haven't Asians created AHCU(Asian Historical College University) yet in the United States.
We need affirmative action in the dating world. Beautiful women should be coerced into dating less attractive men. Let it be so.
You should date a man instead.
Omg this comedian guy is so Funny! I love him!
The schools that rejected him deal with one form of racism by committing another form of racism.
And they’re committing another form of racism in which the victims are unlikely to speak out, protest, or riot. Even worse the Fung Bros then try to make fun of the victims for being “uncool”. Hey Bros, other minority groups aren’t giving you any props or think you’re cool, so drop your act.
Nah. Two of those schools dont even have affirmative action. Asian people are massively over represented at all the schools he applied for. He just wasnt as competitive with other Asian applicants.
at first I thought they said John Wayne and was talking about John Wayne and I was like what??
if your boy J Lin got affirmative action in the NBA... dude still by playing yo
The truth is elite colleges allow people who would succeed with or without attending the college. If he had what it takes he would have shrugged and built the next Microsoft.
Only Chinese gets College Education... where do I sign up for your newsletter?
Im happy they got rid of affirmation action, keep legacy alive. 😂
hi kinda new here is it Fung bros or hot pot boys??....
Hot fung boyz
@dukkyfuzzfuzzydukk3594 oh for funny 😂
He fucked it up for Asians. Now you know. and you are wrong Legacy admissions is a huge number.
you got played.
Affirmative action should only focus on household income