Great review, just one nitpick: a mention of warranty on it would have been great. Performance is about what I expected, and that price is a big yikes. I also have my doubts on the longevity of that punp knowing Thermaltake, but maybe this is better, who knows.
Great point. I'll try to remember to discuss AIO warranties next time. From the the Thermaltake website, it looks like the warranty is one year. For comparison: (1) Corsair Hydro H150i = 5 years (2) Arctic Liquid Freezer II = 6 years (3) Deepcool Castle = 3 years (very hard to find, only saw this listed on Newegg's site) I have to admit that I'm surprised at how short Thermaltake's warranty is and how long the competition's is. I'd feel bad not having mentioned this if I'd actually given the ToughLiquid a full recommendation!
Yes, the warranty on a product should factor in considerably on a buying decision - I second including warranty information in reviews. I just had to get an RMA for my Kraken X63 (good experience, new one seems to be working fine) and I found out that NZXT has an 8 year warranty on that cooler, which is astounding! Almost as long as power supplies. Was shocked and impressed by that.
I continue to love the balanced approach of noise normalized and full tilt results along with audible noise results for evaluation. I found myself daisy chaining your reviews when evaluating new coolers and fans specifically. You've become my go to channel for cooling. Keep up the great work!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I have not built a system since 2003-4, I only have baught 2 gaming laptops since then from MSI (2012 then 2016-17)....I want to build a future proof system since my life now allows me to get a desktop PC and I was looking at Origin PC but now am looking to perhaps build my own system because I don't have $17,000 to $20,000 to throw down...and figured I could build my own for half the cost....maybe.
Welcome back to PC building, your last PC predates even my first DIY PC, which I built in 2006! Now is a bad time time to build your own PC, as GPUs are essentially not available. One thing I can recommend is that you purchase a pre-built with the main components you want (CPU and GPU), and then upgrade it with fans, coolers, RAM, etc.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Thanks for the welcome back. Aprecate the suggestion, how about mother board that I'd want? Would you not say that would be a good thing for updates...I likely will wait on the CPU I want because the high end AMD's are ridiculous at the moment. Look forward to your next video.
I know... but ultimately this wasn't a shootout, it's a single product review, so I drew the line on repeating what was in the original shootout. You can always check out that audio sample here: ruclips.net/video/qr3bWJ033LY/видео.html
Thanks for another great video my guy. I do agree with you on the steep pricing for the thermaltake 360 aio, there's just so many other options out there that are close to performance and at a lower price but regardless it is still good to see other options out there.
As always Ari, lovin your content 🥰🏆! That price is a bit much but maybe with cost of many raw resources, production issues, freight increased costs & tariffs now in effect this may be a chunk as the increased costs……or in addition, Thermaltake is considering the GPU situation and thinks it can charge what ever with it coolers too. I feel this product won’t be very popular unless the pricing drops at around 20%+.
My issue with the Toughfan is that the website specs say the fan uses 0.12A but the sticker on the back of the fan hub says 0.7A. That’s a huge difference, and many fan headers can only handle 1A so two of the fans could easily burn out a MB fan header if they really do consume 0.7A. Just can’t trust them to use them for risk of damaging the MB.
I hadn't noticed that, but I'm glad you caught it in the video! I have to assume that's a mistake. I don't see any reason the fan would draw 0.7A. Maybe it is 0.07A, which would be in line with other fans. I'll ask Thermaltake about it.
I dislike it when coolers don't use the standard AMD backplate. The Thermaltake backplate conflicts with some of the SMD components that are found around the backplate on the back of ITX motherboards. This wouldn't fit on my motherboard without taking a hacksaw to it first. There's absolutely no need to design it this way but some manufacturers still insist on shoving bolts in from the back instead of threading into the existing backplate. Not to mention compatibility with the likes of the MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Wifi which uses a modified AMD backplate and has additional components where the regular AMD backplate would be. I don't think that combination would ever fit without seriously compromising the integrity of the Thermaltake backplate.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Ah, of course we wouldn't expect you to test compatibility to that extent so it's great that you mentioned the mounting system. I just wanted to air a small grievance and perhaps inform others of a potential issue they might face. I believe this particular issue is limited to the relatively small (heh) ITX market anyway where it always pays to do your research. The stiff hose connection to the pump block of the Liquid Freezer II brings its own set of issues with it which is why I've been looking for a similarly performing 280mm AIO that doesn't charge extra for RGB. This one might make the shortlist if the price drops and I can stomach the idea of cutting up the backplate. Ah, if only EK made a 280mm version of their basic AIO.
I hear you on those LFII tubes. Kind of a pain for ITX systems. But take note: despite Thermaltake having ToughFan 14s, they haven't released a ToughLiquid 280 yet.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru several European online retailers are showing the 280mm Toughliquid as in stock so it seems the model has been released at least to the European market. Sadly I couldn't find any comprehensive reviews on the Toughfan 14, only the 12, even though in my opinion it is the more interesting product as there is no fan on the level of the NF-A12x25 available in 140mm.
It's not listed on the Thermaltake website, but it could be an EU-only product. I agree the ToughFan 14 is an interesting product, and I could certainly do a review (I have samples), but as I discussed in a recent Thermaltake news video, it's a bit too niche, and I just conducted a rad fan shootout last fall, which included the ToughFan 12 (the 14 was not yet available). This is why I am now aggressively changing my review schedules if I know I new product is coming out soon... it's not worth it to publish a shootout just before a potentially superior product hits the market!
The way that Fuma 2 holds up against coolers 2-3x it's cost maxing out around your noise normalized tests is nuts. BTW I added the two Arctic P14's to my Fuma 2 replacing the stock fans and only saw a 0.8c difference! Scythe really worked some magic with those kaze flex fans. I eventually swapped them back.
You added P14s or P12s to the Fuma 2? I agree, there is some special magic in that cooler and its combination of low-RPM fans. I do intend to eventually conduct a Fuma 2 optimization video... just a matter of time, although I may find it cannot be further optimized with different fans!
Hi, there's a test I'd like to see. It'd go like this: An airflow-focused case, with lots of airflow coming in, but only a single 120mm fan in the back. The question is to what fan would be best there in the back. I get the feeling that although airflow matters plenty, static pressure to deal with the air coming from the gpu below it will help cooling. A case with a high-power gpu (and cpu, I suppose) would be ideal. I wonder if the Kaze Flex (best case fan) or the Phanteks T30 would win.
The closest I came to doing the test you suggested is having one case fan in front, one in back. Here's the shootout: ruclips.net/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/видео.html I understand the benefit of testing a single exhaust fan to differentiate its performance from how intake fans operate, but the problem is that no enthusiasts runs a single fan, so it's probably more important to see how intake and exhaust fans operate together. That's how I plan to do my ARGB case fan test (postponed from this month to later this year). There will be four fans in the system (3 front, 1 rear).
@@TheTechBuyersGuru definitely, but I can still live with it though. I used the Corsair H115i for 5 years before finally switching to MSi MAG Coreliquid 360r just a week ago 😂👍 I changed my AIO mainly because the old H115i isn't supported by iCue4 anymore, I tried reverted it back to iCue3, but the monitoring always freezes after roughly 30 minutes of usage, even when I leave it at idle after booting it up. And when it does, it also locked the fan speed, so it's quite annoying if it locked the fan speed while in full load. I also noticed that the pump speed occasionally slows down despite the inability to set pump fan curve, so I'm concerned it won't last (since it's already 5 years anyway) and I wouldn't want to wait for it do die on me while rendering or gaming. Yes, corsair fans always sounds like damn jet. If I were to buy their AIOs again in the future I'll definitely not going to use the stock fans.
Could you compare all 120/240/360 AIOs using just 1 kind of fan (either Noctua A12x25 or Phanteks T30) and thereby determine the cooling performance of the AIOs when the fan factor is excluded? Thanks for doing what you do
That's an interesting idea, but a bit too much work for my channel right now. It would require a huge number of AIO installations, and none of the results would represent shipping product, so most people wouldn't watch. Basically it's way too niche and would not be a good use of time for how many views it would get.
i was wondering if you know why my rtx 2060 fans only go to a high of 84% even when temps go to 214F. ive tried many programs to fix, but cant seem to get it to go above 84% to cool gpu down. can u offer any advice?
Are you saying your rtx 2060 is running at over 100C? It should never get that high, even with 84% fans. Contact the manufacturer for warranty service.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru i was looking at wrong thing, i was looking at hot spots and mem temp not gpu temp, im getting up to 173f only in gpu temp, thanks for everything.
I've seen glowing reviews of it, and I've seen problematic reviews. I think the application method is more critical with Kryonaut. I did ask them for samples, but they did not respond. So NT-H2 it is for all of my reviews!
Kryonaut suffers from pump out and starts to break down at a relatively low temperature, mid 80's if I remember correctly. It was designed for what is in its name, very low temp overclocking.
Ha! I was right with my guess of this one's performance :] Nice one, but the price is just inadequate for AiO with simple led on pump, fans without leds and it all coming from rather not known as reputable brand. It's just another overpriced AiO.
I thought you didn't even like LEDs, but just like to bother me about my ARGB case fan shootout that keeps getting delayed, LOL! Of course, as you know from my review, I also think the price is too high, but I'm going to be posting a poll about this in the morning... it's not just Thermaltake, price hikes are coming from others as well!
And as a quick follow-up, I again asked Phanteks for a sample of the Glacier T30. They are a bit hard to pin down by e-mail... I think just one Phanteks rep works all the media contacts, so product requests can get lost. I agree that the cooler would be worthy of the TBG benchmarking treatment though!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru With me and LEDs it's the same as I don't find fat women attractive :D But if you do, it's fine, fine is also their existence - I don't care :] I'm generally surprised with nowadays tendency of people focusing so much on looks of computer, but it's some additional fun to them, which I just don't need. It have grown to the point of being room decor. I personally like stylish things, everything could be nice to look at, but maybe you have e.g. air compressor or laundry drying rack and you probably have never cared about how these things look - for me pc and peripherals are in the same category. About ARGB shooutout, I promise next time I'm saying something about it, is under this uploaded video or at most community post about it :] / With Phanteks AiO they seem like are not likely to send it to review and it's generally strange.
Great review, just one nitpick: a mention of warranty on it would have been great.
Performance is about what I expected, and that price is a big yikes. I also have my doubts on the longevity of that punp knowing Thermaltake, but maybe this is better, who knows.
Great point. I'll try to remember to discuss AIO warranties next time. From the the Thermaltake website, it looks like the warranty is one year. For comparison:
(1) Corsair Hydro H150i = 5 years
(2) Arctic Liquid Freezer II = 6 years
(3) Deepcool Castle = 3 years (very hard to find, only saw this listed on Newegg's site)
I have to admit that I'm surprised at how short Thermaltake's warranty is and how long the competition's is. I'd feel bad not having mentioned this if I'd actually given the ToughLiquid a full recommendation!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Yeah that warranty does not inspire much confidence in me, maybe put it in a pinned comment?
You're it! ;)
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Thanks lol, saw that, just annoyed I can't fix my bad spelling now that it's pinned haha 😂
Yes, the warranty on a product should factor in considerably on a buying decision - I second including warranty information in reviews. I just had to get an RMA for my Kraken X63 (good experience, new one seems to be working fine) and I found out that NZXT has an 8 year warranty on that cooler, which is astounding! Almost as long as power supplies. Was shocked and impressed by that.
I continue to love the balanced approach of noise normalized and full tilt results along with audible noise results for evaluation. I found myself daisy chaining your reviews when evaluating new coolers and fans specifically. You've become my go to channel for cooling. Keep up the great work!
Glad to hear you've been binging on the channel, LOL!
Hey Ari, quite educational for someone trying to get back into hardware. Really appreciate the detail and depth that you get into here. Cheers 🍻
Glad to help! When did you last build or upgrade a system?
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I have not built a system since 2003-4, I only have baught 2 gaming laptops since then from MSI (2012 then 2016-17)....I want to build a future proof system since my life now allows me to get a desktop PC and I was looking at Origin PC but now am looking to perhaps build my own system because I don't have $17,000 to $20,000 to throw down...and figured I could build my own for half the cost....maybe.
Welcome back to PC building, your last PC predates even my first DIY PC, which I built in 2006!
Now is a bad time time to build your own PC, as GPUs are essentially not available. One thing I can recommend is that you purchase a pre-built with the main components you want (CPU and GPU), and then upgrade it with fans, coolers, RAM, etc.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Thanks for the welcome back. Aprecate the suggestion, how about mother board that I'd want? Would you not say that would be a good thing for updates...I likely will wait on the CPU I want because the high end AMD's are ridiculous at the moment.
Look forward to your next video.
Would be cool to have also heard audio samples of the Arctic. Either way, nice review.
I know... but ultimately this wasn't a shootout, it's a single product review, so I drew the line on repeating what was in the original shootout. You can always check out that audio sample here:
ruclips.net/video/qr3bWJ033LY/видео.html
Love the benchmarks as always, but I also really appreciate the look of the ToughRam
Yeah, I appreciate anything unique, and ToughRAM qualifies!
Thanks for another great video my guy. I do agree with you on the steep pricing for the thermaltake 360 aio, there's just so many other options out there that are close to performance and at a lower price but regardless it is still good to see other options out there.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm hoping the price eventually comes down, rather than others going up!
As always Ari, lovin your content 🥰🏆! That price is a bit much but maybe with cost of many raw resources, production issues, freight increased costs & tariffs now in effect this may be a chunk as the increased costs……or in addition, Thermaltake is considering the GPU situation and thinks it can charge what ever with it coolers too. I feel this product won’t be very popular unless the pricing drops at around 20%+.
Probably right on all counts!
Those VRM temps on the Arctic are amazing still. Im surprised more companies dont add that small fan on the pump.
Yes, either that helps... or the fact that the rad fans are 11mm closer to the VRMs due to the thick rad helps!!!
My issue with the Toughfan is that the website specs say the fan uses 0.12A but the sticker on the back of the fan hub says 0.7A. That’s a huge difference, and many fan headers can only handle 1A so two of the fans could easily burn out a MB fan header if they really do consume 0.7A. Just can’t trust them to use them for risk of damaging the MB.
I hadn't noticed that, but I'm glad you caught it in the video! I have to assume that's a mistake. I don't see any reason the fan would draw 0.7A. Maybe it is 0.07A, which would be in line with other fans. I'll ask Thermaltake about it.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru did you ask? I'd like to know the TTs reply.
The larger cold plate on this one is nice, but yeah it seems too expensive. Great reviews! Thumbs up.
Thanks for watching!
Considering this one as Arctic is having stock problems, as recognised by themselves. The problem is that the warranty on TT is ridiculous...
i dont know why i dont get notifications of new videos of yours, i have it selected to.
Great review. But would have chosen that fuma 2 from this lineup myself :-)
I dislike it when coolers don't use the standard AMD backplate. The Thermaltake backplate conflicts with some of the SMD components that are found around the backplate on the back of ITX motherboards. This wouldn't fit on my motherboard without taking a hacksaw to it first. There's absolutely no need to design it this way but some manufacturers still insist on shoving bolts in from the back instead of threading into the existing backplate.
Not to mention compatibility with the likes of the MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Wifi which uses a modified AMD backplate and has additional components where the regular AMD backplate would be. I don't think that combination would ever fit without seriously compromising the integrity of the Thermaltake backplate.
I can't test every combination, but yes, it is a bit odd, and that's why I pointed it out in the video.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Ah, of course we wouldn't expect you to test compatibility to that extent so it's great that you mentioned the mounting system. I just wanted to air a small grievance and perhaps inform others of a potential issue they might face. I believe this particular issue is limited to the relatively small (heh) ITX market anyway where it always pays to do your research.
The stiff hose connection to the pump block of the Liquid Freezer II brings its own set of issues with it which is why I've been looking for a similarly performing 280mm AIO that doesn't charge extra for RGB. This one might make the shortlist if the price drops and I can stomach the idea of cutting up the backplate. Ah, if only EK made a 280mm version of their basic AIO.
I hear you on those LFII tubes. Kind of a pain for ITX systems. But take note: despite Thermaltake having ToughFan 14s, they haven't released a ToughLiquid 280 yet.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru several European online retailers are showing the 280mm Toughliquid as in stock so it seems the model has been released at least to the European market. Sadly I couldn't find any comprehensive reviews on the Toughfan 14, only the 12, even though in my opinion it is the more interesting product as there is no fan on the level of the NF-A12x25 available in 140mm.
It's not listed on the Thermaltake website, but it could be an EU-only product. I agree the ToughFan 14 is an interesting product, and I could certainly do a review (I have samples), but as I discussed in a recent Thermaltake news video, it's a bit too niche, and I just conducted a rad fan shootout last fall, which included the ToughFan 12 (the 14 was not yet available). This is why I am now aggressively changing my review schedules if I know I new product is coming out soon... it's not worth it to publish a shootout just before a potentially superior product hits the market!
Considering the pump is not PWM, it would have been nice to get more detail on pump noise. Splendid review otherwise.
The way that Fuma 2 holds up against coolers 2-3x it's cost maxing out around your noise normalized tests is nuts. BTW I added the two Arctic P14's to my Fuma 2 replacing the stock fans and only saw a 0.8c difference! Scythe really worked some magic with those kaze flex fans. I eventually swapped them back.
You added P14s or P12s to the Fuma 2? I agree, there is some special magic in that cooler and its combination of low-RPM fans. I do intend to eventually conduct a Fuma 2 optimization video... just a matter of time, although I may find it cannot be further optimized with different fans!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru yes sorry P12s.
Interesting, definitely adds another layer of intrigue as to how Scythe did it!!!
Hi, there's a test I'd like to see. It'd go like this: An airflow-focused case, with lots of airflow coming in, but only a single 120mm fan in the back. The question is to what fan would be best there in the back. I get the feeling that although airflow matters plenty, static pressure to deal with the air coming from the gpu below it will help cooling. A case with a high-power gpu (and cpu, I suppose) would be ideal. I wonder if the Kaze Flex (best case fan) or the Phanteks T30 would win.
The closest I came to doing the test you suggested is having one case fan in front, one in back. Here's the shootout: ruclips.net/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/видео.html
I understand the benefit of testing a single exhaust fan to differentiate its performance from how intake fans operate, but the problem is that no enthusiasts runs a single fan, so it's probably more important to see how intake and exhaust fans operate together. That's how I plan to do my ARGB case fan test (postponed from this month to later this year). There will be four fans in the system (3 front, 1 rear).
What about 280 vs 360? 2x140 less noise, how much is the temp difference? Thanks for all your works
I was interested in that too, so I published an entire video on the topic last year! - ruclips.net/video/uUUItnZRHyM/видео.html
can some1 mention how to fill the AIO with fluid. all the reviews i've seen fail to show if its easy or difficult to add fluid to the cooler.
Hi. How do you know when is minimum and when is maximum speed of tt. I dont see any app for this kind of thing. Thanks
I feel like I was inside of an airplane when I heard the max rpm sound of Deepcool's aio lol
You would not like the Corsair then.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru definitely, but I can still live with it though.
I used the Corsair H115i for 5 years before finally switching to MSi MAG Coreliquid 360r just a week ago 😂👍
I changed my AIO mainly because the old H115i isn't supported by iCue4 anymore, I tried reverted it back to iCue3, but the monitoring always freezes after roughly 30 minutes of usage, even when I leave it at idle after booting it up.
And when it does, it also locked the fan speed, so it's quite annoying if it locked the fan speed while in full load. I also noticed that the pump speed occasionally slows down despite the inability to set pump fan curve, so I'm concerned it won't last (since it's already 5 years anyway) and I wouldn't want to wait for it do die on me while rendering or gaming.
Yes, corsair fans always sounds like damn jet. If I were to buy their AIOs again in the future I'll definitely not going to use the stock fans.
that length cable fan..omg...
I think Thermaltake often have excessive cable length - I noticed it with both my Toughfan Turbo and Pure A12. I find it kind of annoying tbh.
Yes, it's annoying, and I've told them about it previously.
Is this aio good with a 5800x3d?
how do you change the color of the fans. I downloaded the software from thermaltake but it said cannot connect to fan controller. plz help
Only the pump has RGB lighting. You change it using the software from your motherboard.
EKWB AIOs next?
Trust me, I've asked for samples, but heard nothing. Given how many other samples I have, I don't think I'll do EK at this point.
Could you compare all 120/240/360 AIOs using just 1 kind of fan (either Noctua A12x25 or Phanteks T30) and thereby determine the cooling performance of the AIOs when the fan factor is excluded? Thanks for doing what you do
That's an interesting idea, but a bit too much work for my channel right now. It would require a huge number of AIO installations, and none of the results would represent shipping product, so most people wouldn't watch. Basically it's way too niche and would not be a good use of time for how many views it would get.
I think the fans are wasted on the thin rad. They need a juicy rad to perform well
That may be an issue, although I found that better fans certainly worked on a similar radiator here: ruclips.net/video/beeDPXJybu8/видео.html
Much more expensive than arctic freezer and performance isn’t on par with its price
Yep, so far Arctic delivers way over their price tag, still my number 1...
i was wondering if you know why my rtx 2060 fans only go to a high of 84% even when temps go to 214F. ive tried many programs to fix, but cant seem to get it to go above 84% to cool gpu down. can u offer any advice?
Are you saying your rtx 2060 is running at over 100C? It should never get that high, even with 84% fans. Contact the manufacturer for warranty service.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru do you have twitter or FB, i can send pics?? i use gpu-z to see temps.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru i was looking at wrong thing, i was looking at hot spots and mem temp not gpu temp, im getting up to 173f only in gpu temp, thanks for everything.
173F (78C) is fine for that GPU, and I wouldn't worry about pushing the fan speeds any higher.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thanks.
I'm suffering from "Fan" envy
Luckily, fans are pretty cheap as upgrades go, even the good ones!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru not after you recommend them :)
LOL, I wish I had that kind of influence!
$190 and the fans aint rgb....
I think Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is still the best thermal paste in the market. Although you certainly can't go wrong with the Noctua one.
I've seen glowing reviews of it, and I've seen problematic reviews. I think the application method is more critical with Kryonaut.
I did ask them for samples, but they did not respond. So NT-H2 it is for all of my reviews!
Kryonaut suffers from pump out and starts to break down at a relatively low temperature, mid 80's if I remember correctly. It was designed for what is in its name, very low temp overclocking.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru NT-H2 is an excellent TIM. Works great for GPU as well. I use it on my crypto farming GPUs.
@Berserkism - thanks for that insight, I could see how something that works well at sub-ambient temps wouldn't work well at 80C.
I always boycott Thermaltake.
Fanboys gonna fanboy.
FYI Noctua doesn’t care about you more than any other company would.
@@Kiki-lc3ng He's not referring to noctua. It's about what "thermalfake" did to CaseLabs. And numerous other brands.
@@Kiki-lc3ng Noctua ??
@@porschesdawg ^^
Ha! I was right with my guess of this one's performance :] Nice one, but the price is just inadequate for AiO with simple led on pump, fans without leds and it all coming from rather not known as reputable brand. It's just another overpriced AiO.
I thought you didn't even like LEDs, but just like to bother me about my ARGB case fan shootout that keeps getting delayed, LOL!
Of course, as you know from my review, I also think the price is too high, but I'm going to be posting a poll about this in the morning... it's not just Thermaltake, price hikes are coming from others as well!
And as a quick follow-up, I again asked Phanteks for a sample of the Glacier T30. They are a bit hard to pin down by e-mail... I think just one Phanteks rep works all the media contacts, so product requests can get lost. I agree that the cooler would be worthy of the TBG benchmarking treatment though!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru With me and LEDs it's the same as I don't find fat women attractive :D But if you do, it's fine, fine is also their existence - I don't care :] I'm generally surprised with nowadays tendency of people focusing so much on looks of computer, but it's some additional fun to them, which I just don't need. It have grown to the point of being room decor. I personally like stylish things, everything could be nice to look at, but maybe you have e.g. air compressor or laundry drying rack and you probably have never cared about how these things look - for me pc and peripherals are in the same category. About ARGB shooutout, I promise next time I'm saying something about it, is under this uploaded video or at most community post about it :] / With Phanteks AiO they seem like are not likely to send it to review and it's generally strange.