You are hillarious and a real pro how you tell your stories!! Don't think it gets unnoticed or forgotten!! I kill myself with laughter.... inside myself!!
"Foredooms" is genius. I also like the fact that she didn't destroy him (even though she apparently had that power) after his initial, terrible ruling. It was when he tried to screw her over again.
Which I also respect. I guess I like the idea of the wronged having access to supernatural retribution whether they choose to exercise it or not. Mercy and comeuppance are both valid.
I was absolutely SHOOK by that incident. Like how DARE he try to fuck over Rav Mari like that! I was furious. So I very much appreciated this story followed so quickly on its heels. Sure, there's no way to know in what chronological order these events transpired, or if they both transpired, but I'd like to think this was a little earned comeuppance for Rava here!
Rava: women are stupid and easily fooled, so just write this done, oh ye scribe in my study. Also Rava: Schrödinger's Sage, as per 135b...because the very *not* easily fooled woman was having none of his nonsense and thus didn't act sagely at all...
It's bananas to me that he's married to Rav Chisda's daughter and forgot this key thing. She was no intellectual slouch! But also I think there was an underlying assumption that SOME women are SPECIAL and those are the smart ones (who rest their hands on your head while you are in the bathroom to scare away demons.) The OTHER women are just gossipy and annoying.
@MiriamAnzovin I'm not mocking the sages...but perhaps some of them are gossipy and annoying. Ever read a passage about a Sage and be like "I CANNOT believe they wrote this down for future generations of our People to know about this particular sage"? They said what they said and they wanted us to know. And I love that. Anyway, Rava was a fool of a Took here...
@@allisons.1155I firmly believe that Rav Kahana inserted the section that said he was more beautiful than Yochanan because Yochanan had no beard. So I am ENTIRELY willing to believe Abaye put this story in about Rava! (I’m just kidding but it would be hilarious if that’s why!)
Miriam I am confused again. A bequest in America today is a gift that only takes place upon the death of the giver. So since the woman didn’t die there was no gift, at least not yet because we all know that nothing is certain except death and taxes. So in the time of Rava, a not very savant sage, was a bequest actually something else? Another thing that is unclear to me : did Shira make her bequest to Rava? Why would she make a bequest to the same person she is consulting for a ruling? Also, in my experience bequests are usually made to charities not sages. The rest of your commentary and special effects are wonderful but please see if you can help out this not so wise Jewess. I did already admit that I quit Daf yomi on the first Daf. And besides that I failed to graduate from nursery school because I couldn’t get up early enough in the morning and I refused to play Simon Says. I do remember how badly Rava behaved just 4 Dafim previously so yes he had it coming.
These are deathbed gifts its to do with how it was worded and whether you take references to a gift in life and death as literal or just a way of allowing a sick person to avoid writing when I am dead as if it's immediate and inevitable. If it's simply rhetoric then they are allowed to reclaim the gift if they survive. If not then it's a gift - as Rava erroneously thought.
Okay, death curse, sure, sure. I hope Rava's servants at least got back to shore . . . I'm curious if killing by invocation was something the woman would be charged with after Rava died? it's hard to believe the other rabbis would be happy about someone with that kind of power in their community, since any of them might have to rule on a case involving her in the future. Does any record show whether the woman ever got her deathbed gift restored? It's great to have one less enemy, but if she's still penniless then it doesn't solve the problem.
The sages killed people with a glance all the time in the talmud - sometimes they brought people back (see incident where Yochanan zapped Rav Kahana) and sometimes they did not. Conveniently, they were never charged with these magical deaths! Alas the story ends there and does not continue on if she got her money back - I hope she did, or I hope she extorted Rava to give her some of his.
The stories here are very satisfying. Honestly, the woman. Sheba, right? Came out unexpectedly. To end the corrupt lie monger. The curse was delivered like some advanced sorceress of doom. I wish to glorify her! Yet, fall short of the ability to do so without her having a name. I hope that it is correct to understand her being a virgin. Or say a Damsel. Otherwise, the record gives the woman her name. The story in Judges chapter eleven. As it reads in an Old Testament, King James model. It s why jephaeths daughter was never named. That story, I dare say. I don't expect any story to come out of the tulmud as horrible as that one. I declare. Their names, both dames, are written in the Book of Life! In cursive. You can't spell glories with lore.
Shira :-) I don't think we should understand her in the context of virginity or lack there of - it doesn't appear to be relevant to this story (although that does matter in many a Talmudic story/conversation of law.) Alas for Jephthah's daughter (Bat Yiftach.) A horrible story and one that has generated some Jewish rituals around her memory - particularly to do with water. There's a book called Dirshuni: Contemporary Women's Midrash, where she does have a name I think - "Tanot" derived from the verse in Judges 11:40 "for the maidens of Israel to go every year, for four days in the year, and chant dirges ("tannot") for her.
@MiriamAnzovin thank you, Miriam. I really needed someone like you. To guide me through the tulmud and Jewish lore. Which had become relevant very often with my interest in the occult. Much influence was taken by the products of your people as like everything else. It's enough to make one feel uneasy and exploited. The occult is especially interested in adopting Jewish practices. So far, the impact has been wholly negative. My occult interest has moved to fixing this. In a sort of harmony unobtainable to a realist sort of disposition. I like to think it is possible. I heard you on esoterica. Went to you immediately. So, the intention is known to you. I'm expecting a lot, maybe, but you're amazing. If you do not like the idea of helping practitioners of the occult further their exploits, I don't blame you, and I am sure you are aware, though, that you do. This redundancy is just like I want to say. I'm sorry for what we did to you. And your sacred belongings. Without being cliche. Just sincere. So, then you can know the stress of my thank you. It's a blessing.
You have very astutely identified the ways in which Jewish stories and lore and practice have been adopted, adapted, appropriated, and taken without context or knowledge of sources. I hope to help bring some of that back (wait till I wrangle the Corpse Bride from Tim Burton's grasping hands!) I do not at all mind people interested in the occult come to this channel, I welcome it!!! Because if they are here, hopefully this can be a learning experience and that's a good thing. I really appreciate your sincerity, and your intention. Thank you!
@MiriamAnzovin oh no. Not the maggot bick guy. I think I know that one. Something about the last Judah tribe girl or to that effect. I'll just let you tell it. Haunting story indeed. Also, I call the story you read the story that sent you out in tears. (Pages and honey episode)
Hi Miriam. I just stumbled onto your channel, and your reactions to the Daf are hilarious. You inspired me to put Gemora onto my future Playlist. Sent you a small donation for your fundraiser: we do what we can. I want to explain that Yiftach did not literally sacrifice his daughters life. He merely sacrificed her potential to be a wife and mother by making her the first Jewish nun (as in forced celibacy). Make of that, what you will.
The story does not include if he was on the boat when it sank! Perhaps it sunk in the harbor, and nobody perished. It doesn't say if Rava henceforth behaved better, but certainly I think the editorial voice of the Talmud might be giving US a little lesson to learn, even if he didn't :-)
I was waiting for him to be murdered from the beginning 😂. I'm surprised to hear such bad things about rava though. But I do get mixed up between rava and rabba. Is this Abaye's havruta? Aren't they like the main amoraim?
I think he didn't actually get murdered, at least it doesn't expressly say that - the boat may have sunk without him on board!! And yes I totally get the confusion - Rava is the one always arguing with Abaye :-) Which is partially why I'm so team Abaye!!!
And I love that she was having NONE of this bullshit from him! He might be a sage, but she was gonna put the fear of Hashem into him for his horrible behavior!
And then he ran into my curse. He ran into my curse... well, only once, but that was enough.
You know, some guys just can’t hold their curses!
You are hillarious and a real pro how you tell your stories!!
Don't think it gets unnoticed or forgotten!!
I kill myself with laughter.... inside myself!!
LOLLLL thank you! I am glad my efforts are noticed! I suppose out of all the ways to go, dying with laughter might not be too bad!
@MiriamAnzovin "And sarah laughed inside herself"
That was a few years before actually dying!
More like dying her hair (beard peyos?)
I knew you would have something to say on this! So love your teachings. And thank you for recommending Fine. It is brilliant!
You are so welcome! She's so phenomenal!
😂 "his decision really SUNK in for him." I bet he couldn't FATHOM his own hubris on the way down.
Ohhhhh that’s a GOOD ONE OMG! Well played!
"Foredooms" is genius. I also like the fact that she didn't destroy him (even though she apparently had that power) after his initial, terrible ruling. It was when he tried to screw her over again.
She gave him a second chance, which was very nice of her! Because I WOULDN"T HAVE
Which I also respect. I guess I like the idea of the wronged having access to supernatural retribution whether they choose to exercise it or not. Mercy and comeuppance are both valid.
Especially if it's mercy followed by comeuppence.
Wait, we are opening the box of musocal references now? ❤❤❤
I only know like a handful of songs! I can’t lie!
The page is always more interesting /entertaining/memorable when you recount it!
lol this is the way it gets filtered through my brain!
Ooh ooh that is good!
thank you Cindy!!!!
I was expecting you to do this one. The cherry on top is the reference back to Rava trying to screw Rav Mari on page 149.
I was absolutely SHOOK by that incident. Like how DARE he try to fuck over Rav Mari like that! I was furious. So I very much appreciated this story followed so quickly on its heels. Sure, there's no way to know in what chronological order these events transpired, or if they both transpired, but I'd like to think this was a little earned comeuppance for Rava here!
damn, well this woman also feels like she's on her deathbed (I have a cold ok) but I'll hold onto my property for now, noted
And whatever you do don't ask Rava for help! Also please feel better!!!!
Rava: women are stupid and easily fooled, so just write this done, oh ye scribe in my study.
Also Rava: Schrödinger's Sage, as per 135b...because the very *not* easily fooled woman was having none of his nonsense and thus didn't act sagely at all...
It's bananas to me that he's married to Rav Chisda's daughter and forgot this key thing. She was no intellectual slouch! But also I think there was an underlying assumption that SOME women are SPECIAL and those are the smart ones (who rest their hands on your head while you are in the bathroom to scare away demons.) The OTHER women are just gossipy and annoying.
@MiriamAnzovin I'm not mocking the sages...but perhaps some of them are gossipy and annoying. Ever read a passage about a Sage and be like "I CANNOT believe they wrote this down for future generations of our People to know about this particular sage"?
They said what they said and they wanted us to know. And I love that.
Anyway, Rava was a fool of a Took here...
@@allisons.1155I firmly believe that Rav Kahana inserted the section that said he was more beautiful than Yochanan because Yochanan had no beard. So I am ENTIRELY willing to believe Abaye put this story in about Rava! (I’m just kidding but it would be hilarious if that’s why!)
Miriam I am confused again. A bequest in America today is a gift that only takes place upon the death of the giver. So since the woman didn’t die there was no gift, at least not yet because we all know that nothing is certain except death and taxes. So in the time of Rava, a not very savant sage, was a bequest actually something else? Another thing that is unclear to me : did Shira make her bequest to Rava? Why would she make a bequest to the same person she is consulting for a ruling? Also, in my experience bequests are usually made to charities not sages. The rest of your commentary and special effects are wonderful but please see if you can help out this not so wise Jewess. I did already admit that I quit Daf yomi on the first Daf. And besides that I failed to graduate from nursery school because I couldn’t get up early enough in the morning and I refused to play Simon Says.
I do remember how badly Rava behaved just 4 Dafim previously so yes he had it coming.
These are deathbed gifts its to do with how it was worded and whether you take references to a gift in life and death as literal or just a way of allowing a sick person to avoid writing when I am dead as if it's immediate and inevitable. If it's simply rhetoric then they are allowed to reclaim the gift if they survive. If not then it's a gift - as Rava erroneously thought.
ah! Thanks so much.
yes precisely! tricky deathbed gift legalities!
Okay, death curse, sure, sure. I hope Rava's servants at least got back to shore . . . I'm curious if killing by invocation was something the woman would be charged with after Rava died? it's hard to believe the other rabbis would be happy about someone with that kind of power in their community, since any of them might have to rule on a case involving her in the future.
Does any record show whether the woman ever got her deathbed gift restored? It's great to have one less enemy, but if she's still penniless then it doesn't solve the problem.
The sages killed people with a glance all the time in the talmud - sometimes they brought people back (see incident where Yochanan zapped Rav Kahana) and sometimes they did not. Conveniently, they were never charged with these magical deaths! Alas the story ends there and does not continue on if she got her money back - I hope she did, or I hope she extorted Rava to give her some of his.
Did Rava has orang hairs and a fake tan? 😊😊😊
until the last few pages I would have said no, but now I'm rethinking that!
@@MiriamAnzovin So you're telling me there's a chance!?
The stories here are very satisfying. Honestly, the woman. Sheba, right? Came out unexpectedly. To end the corrupt lie monger. The curse was delivered like some advanced sorceress of doom. I wish to glorify her! Yet, fall short of the ability to do so without her having a name. I hope that it is correct to understand her being a virgin. Or say a Damsel. Otherwise, the record gives the woman her name. The story in Judges chapter eleven. As it reads in an Old Testament, King James model. It s why jephaeths daughter was never named. That story, I dare say. I don't expect any story to come out of the tulmud as horrible as that one. I declare. Their names, both dames, are written in the Book of Life! In cursive. You can't spell glories with lore.
Shira :-) I don't think we should understand her in the context of virginity or lack there of - it doesn't appear to be relevant to this story (although that does matter in many a Talmudic story/conversation of law.) Alas for Jephthah's daughter (Bat Yiftach.) A horrible story and one that has generated some Jewish rituals around her memory - particularly to do with water. There's a book called Dirshuni: Contemporary Women's Midrash, where she does have a name I think - "Tanot" derived from the verse in Judges 11:40 "for the maidens of Israel to go every year, for four days in the year, and chant dirges ("tannot") for her.
@MiriamAnzovin thank you, Miriam. I really needed someone like you. To guide me through the tulmud and Jewish lore. Which had become relevant very often with my interest in the occult. Much influence was taken by the products of your people as like everything else. It's enough to make one feel uneasy and exploited. The occult is especially interested in adopting Jewish practices. So far, the impact has been wholly negative. My occult interest has moved to fixing this. In a sort of harmony unobtainable to a realist sort of disposition. I like to think it is possible. I heard you on esoterica. Went to you immediately. So, the intention is known to you. I'm expecting a lot, maybe, but you're amazing. If you do not like the idea of helping practitioners of the occult further their exploits, I don't blame you, and I am sure you are aware, though, that you do. This redundancy is just like I want to say. I'm sorry for what we did to you. And your sacred belongings. Without being cliche. Just sincere. So, then you can know the stress of my thank you. It's a blessing.
You have very astutely identified the ways in which Jewish stories and lore and practice have been adopted, adapted, appropriated, and taken without context or knowledge of sources. I hope to help bring some of that back (wait till I wrangle the Corpse Bride from Tim Burton's grasping hands!) I do not at all mind people interested in the occult come to this channel, I welcome it!!! Because if they are here, hopefully this can be a learning experience and that's a good thing. I really appreciate your sincerity, and your intention. Thank you!
@MiriamAnzovin oh no. Not the maggot bick guy. I think I know that one. Something about the last Judah tribe girl or to that effect. I'll just let you tell it. Haunting story indeed. Also, I call the story you read the story that sent you out in tears. (Pages and honey episode)
Hi Miriam. I just stumbled onto your channel, and your reactions to the Daf are hilarious. You inspired me to put Gemora onto my future Playlist. Sent you a small donation for your fundraiser: we do what we can. I want to explain that Yiftach did not literally sacrifice his daughters life. He merely sacrificed her potential to be a wife and mother by making her the first Jewish nun (as in forced celibacy). Make of that, what you will.
Did he survive after the boat sank? And if so, did he learn any lesson?
The story does not include if he was on the boat when it sank! Perhaps it sunk in the harbor, and nobody perished. It doesn't say if Rava henceforth behaved better, but certainly I think the editorial voice of the Talmud might be giving US a little lesson to learn, even if he didn't :-)
I was waiting for him to be murdered from the beginning 😂. I'm surprised to hear such bad things about rava though. But I do get mixed up between rava and rabba. Is this Abaye's havruta? Aren't they like the main amoraim?
I love that Shira is aware of her rights and has enough knowledge to be powerful!
I think he didn't actually get murdered, at least it doesn't expressly say that - the boat may have sunk without him on board!! And yes I totally get the confusion - Rava is the one always arguing with Abaye :-) Which is partially why I'm so team Abaye!!!
And I love that she was having NONE of this bullshit from him! He might be a sage, but she was gonna put the fear of Hashem into him for his horrible behavior!
Rekt Rava!! 😅🤨🧐 📜 🪤 ✍️ 🚢 ⛈️ 🌊 🌀 🪨 ⚓️ 😂 glub glub! 🫧 🫧!